Latest / Two in Twenty / with Ruffer's Alex Laurie

Transcript

with Ruffer's Alex Laurie · Two in Twenty

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two in 20.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Pink Field, the host of these podcasts, and today I'm joined by Alexandra Laurie from Ruffa.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's the head of marketing communications for them.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Really fascinating conversation going all the way back to a time when she thought financial services wasn't for her and now is uh in the position as partner at Ruffa, a business that was famous for saying that it didn't do marketing.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really interesting journey walking us through all those steps.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So over to my conversation with her.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Alex, it's great to see you.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for taking time today to talk with me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as has become customary, it would be brilliant if you could just give us a little flavour of your career and bring us up to date, and then we can maybe ask some other questions from there.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, firstly, Twink, thanks so much for having me on the show.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, look, where do where do I start?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I left university and um I study anthropology at university, so I guess my options are pretty broad.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And to be perfectly off uh honest, I kind of had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my first job, I sort of fell into it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I fell into working in property, it was a great first job, but quickly realized probably not what I want to do long term.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So then I was kind of back to the drawing board.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I go from here?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my sister was working in marketing at the time.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, you know what, marketing sounds quite interesting.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And a job came up at uh at an asset manager as a marketing assistant.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: But ironically, I kind of always said I'm never working in finance, not the industry for me.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a friend of mine persuaded me.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, look, just go for it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: What have you got to lose?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of went in thinking, you know, what'll be good interview practice.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Went, got the job and started working uh at a small boutique asset manager.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was a marketing assistant, so I kind of worked my way all the way up.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my first six months literally having absolutely no idea what anyone was talking about.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was like learn fast, pick up the jargon, understand what everyone's saying, but it was a great learning curve.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think by kind of combination of luck, hard work, various people left.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't hire above, they just sort of kept giving me more responsibility.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up running the team there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we had quite a tough time where we had an activist investor, they were trying to kind of take over the company, the company was going to be sold, there was just a lot of change, and so I was like, look, this is decision point.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Looking for other options, I had sort of three options on the table.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Two of those were essentially um joining really established marketing functions of asset managers, and then there was one which was um a bit of a curval offer.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was go and work for a firm that's famous for saying they don't do marketing and start a marketing function.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's that's that's the road I took.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been here for nine years.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: What a run-through.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I'm really curious, what made you think that financial services wasn't wasn't for you?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: What were the blockers there and what's changed, I guess?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think look, sadly, it's perception, and I think the reality is it definitely still exists today, and it's something that in my career I really want to give back and try and change those perceptions.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Look, as a kind of young female looking in at an industry, it just felt like it was filled with sort of lots of stuffy men.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't going to be an environment that was supportive to what I wanted, and it just didn't feel very accessible.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think what changed it, to be honest, what changed it was the interview I had.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, I was pretty resistant going for this interview.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I remember saying, like, no way, why would I bother?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: My friend was like, just go, you know, what you got to lose.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I turned up, um, I met my then boss, and she just really sort of changed my perception there and then.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, okay, maybe I've got this wrong.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: She was really nice, she was engaging, she was interesting, all the work sounded really, really great.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, you know what, if she if she can work in this industry, maybe I can too.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I, to be honest, I kind of took a real punt on her.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, for me now, I think I look at all these people coming in and they look at finance and they probably think, you have to be an investor, you have to have done a math degree.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, there's so many different roles in finance, and and it's a great industry to be a part of.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, to be honest, I was lucky that my first job really couldn't have been further from the stereotype of a child.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was I had worked with great kind of men and women, it was much more relaxed than I thought.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there was obviously suits for meetings, but there was even like the occasional flip-flop, and it was just not, it was not the kind of finance I had in my head.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of got me hooked.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And also to your point around the interviewer um really inspiring you, I think that's such a great story, really, and um feeling like they really demonstrated the kind of character and role and interest um that you're looking for.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of shows the importance of mentors.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I don't know whether you have anything else to say on that, but also how you've managed to stay inspired, I guess, through your career through that time as well.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of not only resetting your expectations of a role like this, but also how you've continued to kind of stay inspired, as I say.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I I'm still in touch with my kind of old boss today, and she's been a big support of me in my career.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, it's it's hugely important, and actually now as an industry, trying to kind of inspire us to get in diverse talent, specifically trying to encourage women to come to the industry, it's so important.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And as I say, if I hadn't had that interview and met her, there's probably no way I'd be where I am today in kind of working in the industry.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think role models, mentors are hugely important, and just people feeling like it's accessible, and um I think that's on a lot of different levels.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think also specifically uh being a female, I think kind of feeling like there's opportunity for you, and also I think there's that kind of perception, you know, is everything like Wolf of Wall Street?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely doesn't have to be.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there are parts of the industry that maybe feel more like that, but you know, it can be a really great industry with loads of opportunity for lots of different people, and I think you know, I'm a real, real advocate of trying to kind of um uh put put the flag out there, and it's interesting.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I I go anywhere and you meet people um sort of on a social basis, and the first thing is you know, they say, What do you do?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: and you say, Oh, I work in um in asset management, you could just feel them all switching off and they go, Oh god, I don't know what to ask you.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you're lucky enough that they ask you another question and you get to explain what you do in it, then you feel like people are then interested and engaged.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just think there's that automatic kind of switch off for some reason.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely more we could do as an industry.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think for me, look, what what's kept me inspired?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably a number of things.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think, again, as I I I've mentioned, I think I've I've been lucky to work at great firms where I've been able to have a real impact.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I haven't felt like a kind of cog in the wheel.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I felt like I've really been able to kind of add value, and that that's made it really meaningful for me.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think along that journey as well, I've had great people, I've worked with great people, and they've been real supporters of mine.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is is also a real kind of help along the way.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think something I would I would also say is like, for me, I feel like it's a real privilege.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I get to work with some of the like brightest people in the asset management space, and I learn from them every day.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and I feel like working with lots of people far more intelligent than me, that sort of keeps you on your toes, you're always learning, you're always challenged.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that combined with an industry that really um is so fast paced, it's always evolving, it's on the forefront of anything going on with politics, with the environment, with kind of tensions over the world with the economy, like everything impacts markets, and so it's kind of never boring.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's there's always something new, there's a different challenge.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I say specifically, my kind of if I look at my career and what's kept it interesting for me, I would say, look, the kind of giving more opportunity, the kind of progression upwards always makes it feel like this kind of variety, but I think also for me it's kind of been horizontally.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've been lucky that in my role I've had the opportunity to take on kind of breadth, whether that's new markets, it's different forms of communications, it's working with other areas of the business, it's kind of working on different projects, and that kind of breadth and variety for me um has definitely kept it interesting.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'd say I've got quite a generalist skill set.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if it if it kind of got to a point where I was just doing the same thing day in, day out, I think I think for me that's where I'd probably make a change.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, someone said to me once, um, if you're happy and you're content with what you're doing and you're learning like why change, and I I think that's really solid advice.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and also what you're doing and what you're taking on is obviously clearly valued within Ruffa as I understand that you've been made a partner in the last year or two, and so that feels like a huge step change from a business that sort of was proud of saying it didn't really invest in in marketing and uh wasn't looking sort of build out marketing.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you could share a little bit around that sort of turnaround story of how you kind of managed to bring the business along, I guess, in terms of seeing that value and your your personal journey there, because you've you've obviously been very influential and playing that down and being very modest as ever.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, look, it's definitely been a journey.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're right.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Look, Ruff is a Ruffa's an investment-led firm, and as I say, it was kind of a bit of a leap of faith when I took the job because you know, here was a firm saying we don't do marketing, and I was about to kind of go on and and set up a marketing function.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, ironically, my first I remember doing a kind of presentation to the all-staff, and my first presentation, I call I called it the M-word.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because every time I met someone at Ruffa and they said, Oh, you know, welcome to Ruffa, what are you doing?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say, Oh, I'm I'm here and coming to kind of do do marketing.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Oh, I I thought we don't do marketing, and it was like this kind of dirty word that no one talked about, and you know, and the the reason was is that actually what they thought of marketing was billboard advertising, being everywhere, kind of mass, mass shouting.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this was a firm the pre-R remit when I joined was like keep us out of the press at all costs.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was very much like they had grown organically, they'd been incredibly successful.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there was a sort of sense that we just didn't need this.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why did we need this?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess the start of the journey was very much education, and and that's why I definitely wasn't playing sailing.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was it was quite tough at the beginning, it was a lot of kind of justifying what was I doing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess what um what helped along the way, uh, I was working, so my remit was very small at the beginning.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was come in, set up a strategy to try and launch in the wholesale space.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was partnering with a fantastic um business development director at the time.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: They were a real advocate for what I was doing and they were real great support.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So together together we kind of started sowing the seeds for like what success might look like and the value it could add.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I could have gone out to all the teams and said, you know, this is what I can do for you.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, a great piece of advice I had was just do a really good job of what you're doing at the moment, and then people will come to you.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Don't try and go out and kind of sell what you're doing because otherwise you're just gonna come up against a brick wall.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it was great advice.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we took that on.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I worked with this business development doctor, we started to kind of sow the seeds and we launched uh a Daily Delt fund into the wholesale space, which is our kind of product offering, and it was a massive success.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was the fastest growing fund that year, and suddenly the business started to say, okay, maybe there's something in this, you know, this kind of perfect synergy of kind of marketing working with business development, and actually it can be really impactful.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it grew from there, really, and different teams started to come up and they would say, Look, I think it is working well.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can you maybe help me?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we started helping different parts of the business, and then really it got to the point where we're kind of having lots of different kinds of areas, and I was like, we need to centralize this, it's not it, it doesn't really make sense from an efficiency perspective.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we built what what now is a central marketing function, uh, poached a few internal hires and sort of built built built a little team.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so what was initially a kind of UK focused strategy solely on the wholesale space, uh, with just me is now a team of seven.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: We uh run a global strategy looking at both wholesale, institutional, and private wealth.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, it's definitely been a journey, but uh it's got us where we are today.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it really goes to show the need to sort of demonstrate effectiveness, um, manage stakeholders, you know, like it's really sort of critical to kind of show the value add and then um build from there.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wonder, having got everybody on the marketing train, what's sort of what's sort of next on the hit list?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are the priorities for the business with that team that you've obviously formed and how those different audiences and markets?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Look, for as a firm, we've been through a massive transition recently.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, our founder has just retired.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we've gone from a sort of founder-led to a founder-inspired business.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And look, this has been a huge journey.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we started over a decade ago.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, when I first joined, the only piece of content that was going out was our founders investment review, which is a fantastic piece of content.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge was, as everyone thought, he was the only brains behind behind the strategy.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we launched the Rough Review uh eight years ago, and that was literally to try and diversify voices around Jonathan.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was to prove that there's more great minds in this business, that there's a lot of input that goes into our single strategy.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's been working on this for such a long time.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: He retired at the end of this year, but again, that journey never, never ends.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I think a big focus for us is how do we evolve that narrative?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: How do we make sure that we stay relevant?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do we stay current?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Look, the industry is changing so massively.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a huge amount of consolidation, it's incredibly competitive, AI is going to change the landscape again.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think you really have to make sure that you get cut through.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're a contrarian and we're a specialist.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to make sure that we stand out and people really understand what we're trying to do and the value we add.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's going to be a kind of big focus and how do you keep kind of evolving?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: The other big focus for us is um last year we launched a new growth strategy, and this is really looking at doubling down on some existing areas such as wholesale, institutional private wealth, but also we're exploring some new areas for us.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we're looking at the fast growing sort of direct-to-consumer space and the rise of investing in platforms.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to make sure that where people are investing in platforms, they understand that rough can be a great slice of their portfolio there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very much experimentation phase, trying new things, doing lots of different ideas, and then hopefully in a year's time working out what's really landed and what do we double down on and taking it from there.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think continuing to stay relevant, uh, making sure we've got a contrarian voice and then and then trying new things to help grow the business.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: What fun as well to have that sort of remit to have a contrarian voice, to have a bit of sort of test bed, to be able to kind of see some of the sort of tactics at play within new new markets to be able to kind of really um yeah, be experimental.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that we all talk about it and then don't necessarily always do it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that sounds like a good fun few months or year ahead.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then as you know on this podcast, we asked two questions at the end as a wrap-up.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: One being, what does success look like for marketing and financial services?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then any kind of final tips for listeners.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you could uh give your answers to those two questions as well as we wrap up.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's a big question.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've talked about it a few times already, but I think for me, success in marketing is telling a great story.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's telling a story that's memorable, that's relatable, and that's clear.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think the point in that is people don't have to love it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been reading a really fantastic book at the moment all around um the the kind of importance of being different in a world that's essentially kind of all merging together.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because what do we do?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: We look at our competitors, and so then everyone copies each other, and everyone just gets slowly and slowly and slowly more and more similar.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think um, you know, she uses this wonderful concept of challenger brands or reverse brands, and I think telling a story that resonates uh for whatever reason, whether people love it or hate it, I think that's what great marketing is.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that gets cut through, and I think we've got a real challenge here, you know.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, with AI, proliferation of content, so much stuff out there, being able to say something that really lands with people, I think is incredibly powerful.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And create a reaction.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, and create a reaction.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and then I think if I come on to kind of careers and and and building a career in the industry, and what I'd say tips on that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I've kind of alluded to it a bit, and it feels a bit kind of flippant to say pick the right company, but um, because that's probably true in any industry, but I think the experience will definitely massively vary depending on where you end up, and probably even more so as a female.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've been lucky that I've worked at companies that have both given me opportunity, but I've also had kind of good support along the way.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say if you feel like you are stuck in a role where you're not getting that support, I think it's very hard.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I'd say it's definitely something you should consider.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: What are your other options?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: How else can you get that, or do you need to make a change?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing I'd kind of add on to this as well is um be brave.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, look, if I look back, you know, when it's quite interesting when you don't really think about it, but when you you kind of think back on your career and where I've got to, if I hadn't taken a leap of faith and worked in an industry I said I never would, if I hadn't gone to a company that said, you know, they they weren't, they didn't do marketing, all of these kind of points were actually I was kind of essentially going against potentially what maybe naturally would have felt comfortable.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I wouldn't be where I am today.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes you have to follow your gut and just be brave and maybe say yes when you might want to say no.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, really fantastic.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was a really fab way to sort of wrap up because I think sometimes we think of those blockers and that they're uns insurmountable sometimes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so either to see them and tackle them, or if they're not are immovable, to sort of be bold enough to to go and sort of forge a career somewhere else.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really lovely talking to you.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's been wonderful.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Tink.