Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Leadership, Compassion, and the Future of AI in Critical Care with Dr. Hesham A. Hassaballa

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Leadership, Compassion, and the Future of AI in Critical Care with Dr. Hesham A. Hassaballa · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  This is Scott Becker with the Beckers HealthCare
• 0:03
  podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by
• 0:06
  a brilliant physician leader. We're joined today by
• 0:08
  doctor Hesham Hassebala,
• 0:10
  and doctor Hassebala's got a a a sort
• 0:13
  of a a combined role. He serves as
• 0:15
  the associate
• 0:16
  regional medical director of critical care,
• 0:19
  at the the the with the Rush Health
• 0:21
  System and and just a tremendous leader. He
• 0:24
  he's also a senior partner with Sound Physicians.
• 0:27
  He he's got a fascinating background. I've had
• 0:29
  a chance to visit with doctor Hassebala recently.
• 0:32
  He's an author as well. He's a podcaster.
• 0:34
  He's just a pleasure of a person.
• 0:36
  We're gonna talk today with doctor Hassebala about
• 0:40
  trends that he's watching, where he's most focused
• 0:42
  for next year, advice for leaders, and a
• 0:44
  lot more.
• 0:46
  Hashim doctor Hasselbal, can you take a moment
• 0:48
  to introduce yourself?
• 0:50
  Sure. Thank you. This is, an honor
• 0:53
  and a privilege to be on the show.
• 0:55
  I've been watching your stuff for quite a
• 0:56
  long time, and I was honored to have
• 0:58
  you in the podcast.
• 0:59
  And I'm very excited to be here. Thank
• 1:01
  you for having me. You know, I'm born
• 1:03
  and raised, in the Chicago area. In fact,
• 1:06
  something that I mentioned to
• 1:09
  when I was interviewing for medical school that
• 1:11
  I was born at Rush.
• 1:13
  And so when I applied to
• 1:16
  medical school at Rush, I think I mentioned,
• 1:18
  maybe 50 times, during my medical school interview
• 1:21
  that I was born there. And, you know,
• 1:23
  it must have must have must have done
• 1:25
  something because they they they accepted me later
• 1:27
  that year. So I've been in,
• 1:30
  after after finishing all my all my training
• 1:33
  along with doctor Omar Lateef, who's the CEO
• 1:35
  of the system, he and I were in
• 1:36
  the same fellowship class.
• 1:38
  I went out in private practice,
• 1:39
  lived the private practice life, tried to, you
• 1:42
  know,
• 1:43
  saw the ins and outs of what it
• 1:44
  was like to be on your own, to
• 1:47
  to deal with all the the the things
• 1:48
  of private practice, and watched the trend,
• 1:52
  of hospital systems,
• 1:54
  acquiring practice after practice. And they started acquiring,
• 1:58
  more and more of our referral physicians,
• 2:01
  which made it difficult because now they're going
• 2:03
  to, of course, refer to their own specialists
• 2:05
  that they've that they've already hired. And so
• 2:07
  I started seeing the consolidation
• 2:10
  of health care systems and the acquire the
• 2:13
  acquisition of more and more physician groups.
• 2:16
  Then I had the opportunity to come back
• 2:18
  to the Rush system
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  and, lead the critical care program at Rush
• 2:22
  Copley in Aurora,
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  and I've been there ever since. And so
• 2:26
  running the running the the the the practice,
• 2:30
  leading clinical initiatives, and we've done fantastic things
• 2:33
  at at at Rush Copley. And then with
• 2:36
  my role as sound, I was I have
• 2:38
  been
• 2:38
  overseeing both on-site and telecritical care programs,
• 2:42
  in the Midwest and on the East Coast.
• 2:44
  And, again, bringing
• 2:45
  bringing,
• 2:47
  clinical
• 2:47
  excellence and, process improvement and outcome improvement
• 2:51
  to multiple
• 2:52
  people. So and that's that's what I've been
• 2:54
  doing for the last more than more than
• 2:56
  ten years.
• 2:58
  Fantastic. And and tell us, doctor Acevedo,
• 3:01
  what trends are you watching in health care
• 3:03
  currently?
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  What's most top of mind? You you mentioned
• 3:07
  already a a bit ago
• 3:08
  sort of independent physicians and practices being
• 3:12
  combined and consolidated and independent practices for independent
• 3:15
  practice medicine.
• 3:16
  What are you watching today? What what's the
• 3:18
  big trends that you're focused on currently?
• 3:20
  I think I think the
• 3:23
  the
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  accelerated adoption of artificial intelligence in health care,
• 3:28
  is already
• 3:30
  changing the game. Right? And on an individual
• 3:32
  level with myself, I'm using an AI scribe
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  with proximity
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  and
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  it's
• 3:39
  really revolutionized
• 3:41
  the way I document. Right?
• 3:43
  Because it's it takes the difficulty of having
• 3:46
  to sit and type. My fingers are very
• 3:48
  big, and I can't type anymore without making
• 3:50
  a million mistakes.
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  And this is just I just talked to
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  it, and it
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  it's it generates,
• 3:58
  paragraphs of words that I that it would
• 4:00
  take me forever to do if I had
• 4:01
  to sit there and type it myself.
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  And I can just have the scribe open,
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  look at the record, and just generate documentation
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  very, easily.
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  And now,
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  EHRs are having,
• 4:14
  and and the one that I that that's,
• 4:16
  in my hospital at Rush Cal Poly, Epic,
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  has an AI summary tool that
• 4:22
  really I mean, I showed it to a
• 4:23
  colleague who's infectious disease, and I think I
• 4:26
  made his century
• 4:27
  because it's it just summarizes everything in the
• 4:31
  in the in during the encounter, and that
• 4:32
  saves him again.
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  If he has 40 people to see, and
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  if he can save twenty minutes per person,
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  going through the record, that's real time. That's
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  time back in your life. And so
• 4:45
  on the individual physician level and clinician level,
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  how is AI helping your
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  helping your documentation? How is,
• 4:54
  as the medical LLMs
• 4:56
  get better,
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  how how can they help you be a
• 4:59
  a better diagnostician?
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  I was resistant in the beginning to using
• 5:03
  AI as a physician until I had an
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  AI,
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  someone an expert in the field. I'm on
• 5:08
  my own podcast. And he told me he'd
• 5:10
  much rather have
• 5:12
  a doctor with an AI copilot compared to
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  a doctor without an AI copilot. And it
• 5:16
  made me think,
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  like,
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  if this LLM can help help me be
• 5:21
  a better diagnostician,
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  why not? And so it softened my resistance.
• 5:26
  I used one on a patient. And and
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  I kind of had the idea. I kind
• 5:31
  of had the diagnosis, and it just confirmed
• 5:34
  what it was in my mind. And it
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  was right. And we got the patient on
• 5:38
  the right treatment, and he got better, and
• 5:39
  he walked out of the hospital safe and
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  sound. That's huge. Right? And so as the
• 5:45
  medical LLMs get better, I don't think I'm
• 5:47
  always, an advocate of keeping a physician or
• 5:50
  clinician as the human in the loop. And,
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  if it can make us better diagnosticians,
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  then why not?
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  On the larger scale,
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  now we're gonna see, an what what others
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  have coined the term like an arms race
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  with artificial intelligence
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  between
• 6:08
  providers. I hate using that word, but there's
• 6:10
  no thing between hospitals and doctors and clinicians
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  and practices.
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  AI
• 6:16
  trying to get as much reimbursement as possible
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  and then AI combating that. Right? Stopping that.
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  So,
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  there's gonna be this battle of the bots,
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  I call it, with each side trying to
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  get the most from the from the other,
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  and it's just very interesting to see where
• 6:31
  that's gonna go. So I think the way
• 6:33
  do I think, AI is gonna replace a
• 6:36
  doctor? I don't think I don't think so.
• 6:38
  An AI chatbot,
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  there I did I did talk about this
• 6:42
  on my podcast where
• 6:44
  they are
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  more compassionate, more empathetic. They have all day,
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  and they can where a physician,
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  frequently unfortunately, some many physicians or some physicians
• 6:54
  are not. They don't have all day, and
• 6:56
  sometimes they're not empathetic. Sometimes they're not caring,
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  but the AI chatbots are. This is a
• 7:00
  major threat that we have to think about,
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  and we have to up our game.
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  And
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  the the way
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  the way it's going to transform
• 7:10
  health care on the individual and system level
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  is what I'm looking what what I'm looking
• 7:14
  at. And it's a major theme of what
• 7:15
  I'm exploring on my own, my
• 7:17
  own podcast.
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  It's a fascinating discussion, and and I'll tell
• 7:21
  you an example.
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  Just today, I'm dealing with a specific
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  company, a director of customer experience,
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  and you could tell this director of customer
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  experience
• 7:31
  wants to have nothing to do with me.
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  And and I don't mean that in a
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  negative way. It just is what it is.
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  And at that point, having a chatbot that
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  could answer my relatively simple question
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  feels like it would be a huge improvement
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  over the human experience
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  there. And so it is fascinating to see
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  the areas where the human experience really can
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  be helpful or where the machine experience can
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  be better and and trying to sort all
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  this out, and it'll all evolve over time.
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  And, obviously, we need some of both, but
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  it is really fascinating to to hear what
• 8:00
  you say about the chatbot,
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  sometimes saving the time and the patience. And
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  you know,
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  when you get on the phone with somebody,
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  you could tell almost immediately
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  whether they're inpatient or patient, whether they're stressed
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  or not stressed, and that, of course, impacts
• 8:13
  your experience with that person. And and and
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  there's all kinds of reasons why they can
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  or cannot be,
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  but the chatbot
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  seems not to be stressed, but obviously can't
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  have the depth and sort of solve the
• 8:24
  problems you wanted to solve. So it really
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  is
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  finding this this great mix of what is
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  going to be the effective way to give
• 8:32
  people the customer and patients and clinical experience
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  they need to have. I think it's fascinating,
• 8:36
  doctor Hasabella.
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  I I appreciate your comments on it so
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  much, and and it's so easy for us
• 8:40
  to connect dots on these thoughts that you
• 8:42
  have. Talk to us for a second about
• 8:45
  when you look at 2026,
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  where are you more most focused and excited
• 8:50
  going into the next year?
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  The that that's a great question. I I
• 8:54
  just wanted to also highlight one thing,
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  when it goes back to the the human
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  the one thing a chatbot can't do, even
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  as empathetic and kind and nice it can
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  be,
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  one, it can make mistakes, and it doesn't
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  say it it doesn't say I don't know,
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  and that's a problem.
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  Whereas I can say, you know what? I
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  don't know exactly what's going on, but I'm
• 9:12
  committed to working with you to find out.
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  The other thing an AI chatbot can never
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  do is hold your hand and comfort you
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  while your family is dying in the hospital.
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  And that's something that I think that's a
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  superpower that physicians have,
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  that we should never give up. And we
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  should always hone that skill because that's, you
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  know, what helped me when I lost my
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  child is people holding my hand. And when
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  I reach out and hold the hand of
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  a family member as they're struggling with the
• 9:37
  death of their loved one in the ICU,
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  because I work in the ICU,
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  I think that's a superpower that physicians and
• 9:43
  clinicians and APPs,
• 9:44
  nurses,
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  they have that that an that an AI
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  chatbot can never do. And so we have
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  to keep that always at front of mind.
• 9:52
  As far as 2026
• 9:53
  is concerned, I think
• 9:55
  just what I'm excited about continuing to grow,
• 9:58
  continuing to bring
• 9:59
  clinical excellence to wherever I
• 10:02
  can. The beauty about being a physician leader
• 10:05
  is is that I can do good at
• 10:07
  the bedside right there one on one with
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  the patient. And that's why I became a
• 10:12
  doctor. I became a doctor to help, to
• 10:14
  heal, to hold hands, to to help someone
• 10:16
  feel better. It's there's nothing
• 10:18
  more phenomenal to see a patient walk back
• 10:21
  into the ICU grateful. I may not remember
• 10:24
  them, unfortunately, but they remember me, right? They
• 10:26
  remember us and what we did for them.
• 10:29
  And that feeling is just indescribable, and that's
• 10:31
  fuel and oxygen that can keep me sustained
• 10:34
  forever.
• 10:36
  The other thing that, as being a physician
• 10:39
  leader is to that you can bring good
• 10:41
  to so much more people. So, you know,
• 10:44
  the more the more hospitals I can bring
• 10:48
  our our our our process improvement, our clinical
• 10:50
  excellence with sound, the more the more hospitals
• 10:53
  I can do, the better
• 10:55
  the more good I can do for more
• 10:57
  people, and that's that's even that's even better.
• 11:00
  So it's good at the bedside,
• 11:01
  good at a larger scale, and that's what's
• 11:03
  that's only can be, you know, with a
• 11:06
  physician leader.
• 11:08
  So much. And I and I love your
• 11:09
  comments about compassion and about the actual bedside
• 11:13
  that there's so many people who are places
• 11:15
  where we need people, professionals,
• 11:17
  people that really
• 11:20
  feel like they're taking care of us, beyond
• 11:22
  the technology and so forth. And and and
• 11:25
  and then the comments on bringing technology and
• 11:28
  process improvement and improvement
• 11:30
  to systems on a broader scale, we appreciate
• 11:32
  that so much as well.
• 11:34
  Doctor Hassebal, you've had this fascinating
• 11:37
  leadership experience and growth.
• 11:40
  I have a great pleasure to get to
• 11:42
  visit with you periodically, including on your podcast
• 11:45
  recently,
• 11:46
  an incredible person and leader.
• 11:49
  What advice, doctor Hassebala, would you give to
• 11:51
  other emerging leaders?
• 11:54
  I think
• 11:56
  one of the rules I have in the
• 11:57
  ICU is to take the lulls when they
• 11:59
  come. You know? Sometimes it's go go go,
• 12:02
  a 100 miles an hour, the whole the
• 12:04
  whole shift.
• 12:05
  And there are other times where
• 12:07
  there are lulls. And when there are lulls,
• 12:09
  you take them when you just take them
• 12:11
  into stride. I don't necessarily worry about the
• 12:13
  finances of the low. Now if the low
• 12:15
  is six months, that's one thing. But if
• 12:18
  it's a few days, a few hours,
• 12:20
  take the levels when they come and take
• 12:22
  advantage of it. That's where, you know, people
• 12:24
  say, oh my god. How how do you
• 12:25
  do what you do? How come you how
• 12:27
  do you do so much? Well,
• 12:29
  I mean, I may quickly, you know,
• 12:32
  like a thing that's got Becker posts on
• 12:34
  x or repost something that Becker's health care
• 12:37
  will do. Stop and read an email, maybe
• 12:40
  put something on LinkedIn, but it's only a
• 12:42
  few minutes. That's where I say, okay.
• 12:44
  Where am I gonna generate my next podcast
• 12:47
  episode? How am I gonna write my next
• 12:49
  newsletter?
• 12:50
  Where am I gonna,
• 12:52
  think about,
• 12:53
  you know, doing the schedule for the for
• 12:56
  my team?
• 12:56
  Whatever it takes, take advantage
• 12:58
  of those of the downtime where I can't
• 13:00
  necessarily leave the hospital.
• 13:02
  I can't leave where I'm at, but I
• 13:04
  can do something productive.
• 13:06
  And whether it's getting a thought piece out
• 13:08
  there, commenting on something,
• 13:10
  but not scrolling for hours and hours and
• 13:12
  just seeing things that don't benefit myself.
• 13:16
  And always and then always remember,
• 13:20
  the other thing that keeps me going is
• 13:21
  just the amount of gratitude that I have
• 13:23
  to be in the position that I'm that
• 13:25
  I'm in. I've, you know, there's a lot
• 13:27
  of physicians and clinicians that will sarcastically
• 13:31
  say they're living the dream.
• 13:33
  I am living my dream. There's nothing else
• 13:35
  I wanted to be but a physician ever
• 13:38
  since I was a little kid. As it
• 13:39
  was ever since I can remember,
• 13:41
  This is what I wanted to do. And
• 13:43
  so, you know, I was running, the Chicago
• 13:46
  marathon in 2010
• 13:47
  through the Grand Avenue Bridge or under the
• 13:49
  Grand Avenue Bridge. My cousin told me
• 13:52
  step back and take it in, man. Right?
• 13:54
  And and I and I did. And even
• 13:56
  though it was painful
• 13:58
  and I couldn't feel my legs and I
• 14:00
  couldn't sit down and it when I crossed
• 14:02
  the finish line, it was the one of
• 14:04
  the happiest moments in my life that I
• 14:06
  could do something my daughter could never do
• 14:08
  because she couldn't walk.
• 14:09
  And so but I finished the marathon in
• 14:11
  her honor, and I knew she was there.
• 14:13
  And so always take a take a step
• 14:15
  back and take it all in,
• 14:17
  and and and see where you are and
• 14:19
  see and see what you're doing,
• 14:22
  and and and take that in and be
• 14:24
  grateful.
• 14:25
  And I'll always thank others around you for
• 14:28
  all the hard work that they're doing. It's
• 14:30
  really nice to be acknowledged and thanked.
• 14:33
  It's and and so it's great when I
• 14:35
  get recognition, whether it's from a patient or
• 14:37
  from my own boss or for people that
• 14:40
  that I work with. It's also really important
• 14:43
  that we be grateful and express appreciation,
• 14:46
  not for the things that they do, but
• 14:48
  for the people themselves. I don't say
• 14:51
  I don't say I appreciate that anymore. I've
• 14:53
  stopped. When I was working in the South,
• 14:55
  I noticed people were saying, I appreciate you.
• 14:57
  I appreciate you. And I and I took
• 14:59
  that to heart. Now I say, I appreciate
• 15:02
  you
• 15:03
  because of who you are.
• 15:05
  Thank you for the thing that you do
• 15:07
  that you did, and I appreciate you. And
• 15:09
  so I think showing
• 15:11
  showing appreciation,
• 15:12
  expressing appreciation and gratitude
• 15:14
  for those around you that are doing that
• 15:16
  are helping you be successful
• 15:18
  is, is also absolutely critical.
• 15:22
  Doctor Hasselbalah,
• 15:24
  I I can't tell you how much I
• 15:25
  appreciate
• 15:26
  you and both you and what you do,
• 15:30
  but this tremendous life story and compassion and
• 15:33
  your willingness to share it with you. I
• 15:35
  I I love these thoughts on gratitude and
• 15:39
  gratefulness,
• 15:40
  and you're a special person.
• 15:42
  So it is fascinating to hear you talk
• 15:45
  about what you're talking about and how you
• 15:47
  convey it. It's it's really a remarkable
• 15:50
  human being.
• 15:52
  Doctor Asaba, we are so thankful to visit
• 15:54
  with you today on the Becker's healthcare podcast.
• 15:57
  What a what a tremendous
• 15:59
  pleasure. Thank you so much for being you
• 16:01
  and for joining us. Thank you. That's that's
• 16:04
  so kind of you. It's really my honor
• 16:06
  and and my my privilege to be here,
• 16:07
  and thank you for all that you do.
• 16:09
  The information you give on, with Becker's HealthCare
• 16:13
  arms people like me to give the information
• 16:15
  to be the best leader possible. So thank
• 16:16
  you.