Latest / Everyday Ancestral with James Barry / Is Your Child’s Diet Causing Their Diagnosis? Julie Matthews on Autism, ADHD, and the Food No One Talks About

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Is Your Child’s Diet Causing Their Diagnosis? Julie Matthews on Autism, ADHD, and the Food No One Talks About · Everyday Ancestral with James Barry

• 0:00
  Welcome back to every day in Sestrel. I'm your host James Berry. Have you ever heard the saying
• 0:06
  children are our canaries in the coal mine? That's referencing is that if there is anything going on
• 0:12
  in our environment with our food, anything it usually shows up in our kids first. So we can really
• 0:20
  look towards what is going on illness-wise or chronic disease-wise in our children to see like
• 0:27
  maybe we have some issues. And that's why I'm really excited to share my next guest, Julie Matthews.
• 0:34
  She's a certified nutrition consultant and published researcher specializing in personalized
• 0:39
  nutrition for complex neurological conditions, particularly autism spectrum disorder
• 0:45
  in ADHD for over 20 years. She received her master's degree in medical nutrition with distinction
• 0:52
  from Arizona State University and she's co-author of two research studies demonstrating the efficacy
• 0:58
  of nutrition and therapeutic diet intervention for autism spectrum disorder. And she has a
• 1:04
  brand new book the personalized autism nutrition plan. So please join me in welcoming Julie Matthews.
• 1:12
  You have chosen to focus on autism ADHD really kids. Why kids? I know they're the canary in the
• 1:20
  coal mine, but is there a specific story as to why you you focused on autism and ADHD?
• 1:28
  Maybe a bit of a strange story. Different than what most people would expect. Most people would
• 1:31
  think that maybe I had a child at the time or child on the spectrum or something. I did not. I
• 1:36
  didn't even have kids at the time. You know, long story short, I was in nutrition school and I was
• 1:41
  out running around this park and there was this kid's fair outside and it was filled with donuts
• 1:46
  and pizza and I thought this has to have something to do with all the ADHD in the world today.
• 1:52
  And that was pretty much the start of the whole thing. So my first year in school I studied ADHD
• 1:58
  and when I went to study ADHD, the man that I met recovered his kids from autism and he just wanted
• 2:03
  to talk about autism the whole time. I did my paper on ADHD, but the next year I, you know, was
• 2:09
  talking to my teacher and said, you know, should I do autism this year as my final paper? And so
• 2:17
  she encouraged that the connection started out random and the thought was a bit random, but once
• 2:23
  I found out there was so much you could do that the children we're talking about are not, you know,
• 2:28
  children with a little neurodiversity. These are usually kids that are very sick, sometimes in
• 2:33
  diapers till they're teenagers or beyond, banging their head, not able to talk, you know, it might
• 2:39
  be severe autism, not just mild, you know, more level one type autism. So when I found out that
• 2:45
  there was a lot of suffering going on and that there were things that you can do and that nobody
• 2:50
  was talking about it because this was 20 some years ago. I just felt driven and to the cause,
• 2:57
  really, really, it almost sounds like it was like you were at the right place at the right time.
• 3:03
  I find autism ADHD. I find a lot of these kind of names that we give to kids nowadays. One of the
• 3:10
  things that comes up is, well, when I was younger, I didn't see anyone that had a lot of this. So
• 3:17
  is that true in your opinion? Like, is it true that it didn't exist to the level it does now?
• 3:22
  Or is it just that we didn't diagnose it that way then?
• 3:26
  There are some studies on this topic because it is a big question that people have.
• 3:32
  Back in the, you know, 70s, the rates were about one in 10,000. So if you had, you know,
• 3:39
  a special needs classroom, you might have a person with autism, but that's not how it is today. So
• 3:46
  that's kind of the first bit of argument on the subject is just where are all the adults in
• 3:51
  their 40s and 50s with autism right now if it was as prevalent as it was. But there's actually real
• 3:57
  science showing that they looked at this and they said that, you know, it cannot be found to be
• 4:04
  diagnostics alone. They said that we, you know, even a more moderately conservative study found
• 4:09
  that maybe about 50% or so. Maybe we could attribute to that, but there's something else going on
• 4:15
  where, you know, 50, 60% is something else. You can also think that, you know, there's no
• 4:21
  genetic epidemics. So there's something going on.
• 4:25
  You mentioned you've now been in this 20 years. So what's your answer to what is going on?
• 4:32
  I think it's a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental assaults. That's what I
• 4:37
  think it is. And there are a lot more environmental assaults we've had in the last 50 years with all
• 4:44
  the chemicals. And we'll just take chemicals as one of them. If you have poorer detoxification,
• 4:51
  you're more likely to be injured by those. And if there is more toxins, that's going to be a factor.
• 4:55
  But also toxins can actually affect your epigenetics or how our genes express the ability to detoxify
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  and so sometimes toxins can also affect our genes. So we have just that one thing alone can have a,
• 5:10
  you know, really a cyclical effect. I think that is one of the main things that's going on.
• 5:17
  When you talk about toxins, you're talking about in the air, so environmental, you're talking about
• 5:24
  in our food. What is it all encompass, you know? Yes, all of them, you know, do we use more pesticides
• 5:30
  in our home? Do we use more on our food? Do we have things like glyphosate now that disrupt the
• 5:37
  microbiome? We know the microbiome is a big area of difference and challenge and concern in people
• 5:44
  with autism. So just that alone, antibiotics again, they're wonderful things, you know, we need them
• 5:50
  for life saving, but they do affect our microbiome. I actually went off a little bit. I went into the
• 5:56
  microbiome conversation. We just stick with a toxin topic. Yes, toxins in our food, food additives,
• 6:02
  chemicals in our environment, all of these types of things can affect the brain. Some of them
• 6:09
  are neurotoxins. They kill bugs by damaging the nervous system. So I think that's a factor. And
• 6:16
  some of them affect the brain directly. Some of them affect the mitochondria. You know, some of them
• 6:21
  affect all sorts of different systems that can affect the brain. It is something, and obviously
• 6:28
  parents are getting more and more tuned to us. Okay, we need to rethink, you know, the choices
• 6:33
  we're making in our lifestyles and in the food we put in our bodies. But I think people are also
• 6:39
  getting very stymied by all the different influencers, all the different voices that are saying,
• 6:46
  well, do this or do that. And everyone kind of is pointing in slightly different directions,
• 6:50
  sometimes grand directions, like completely opposite from each other. You've worked with
• 6:56
  thousands of families. I mean, can you share one transformation story that has given you goosebumps
• 7:05
  in terms of what changed and how it showed up? Yes, probably one of my favorite stories is the
• 7:11
  story that if people have my book in the introduction and then the conclusion is the individual I'm
• 7:17
  talking about. And he was a client of mine when he was about five. He's now 21. He had pretty
• 7:27
  significant autism, tantrums, some challenges with language, challenges sleeping. You know, it was
• 7:36
  challenging for him, you know, in school and all of that. His mom worked on diet as well as
• 7:42
  nutrition for many years, kind of step by step, changing different things, a gluten-free diet,
• 7:48
  going and casing free diet, then, you know, evolving into different diets and doing testing and
• 7:53
  doing supplements and things. And today he is graduate from high school. He's an eagle scout.
• 8:00
  He's in college. He wants to be a writer. He won an award for writing at his college last year.
• 8:08
  So he is really doing amazingly well. And in the conclusion, he talks in his own words about how
• 8:14
  important diet has been for him and really how helpful. And so I think that's just one because it's
• 8:21
  nicely here from the person themselves and their journey and what it felt like and how important
• 8:26
  the diet piece was. So that's probably one of my favorite stories. Well, so many cultures, you know,
• 8:32
  if you think about they relied on a lot of the foods I've talked about in previous episodes,
• 8:36
  you know, these traditional and sexual foods like organ meats and fermented vegetables.
• 8:41
  Because that's ultimately I think what people want to know is like, okay, so what foods
• 8:44
  did support him or what, what ancestral foods are you finding, you know, are the most supportive
• 8:49
  for these kids with autism and ADHD? Well, I think starting even with just a whole foods diet,
• 8:55
  right? So artificial added is colors, flavors. We know we're in the research that they create
• 9:00
  significant hyperactivity and behavioral challenges. So that's just one start with whole foods and
• 9:08
  you're all are going to be avoiding entire categories of MSG. We know glutamate causes problems
• 9:14
  in the brain. It's excitatory. So just that alone is a good start. I really do like things like
• 9:20
  liver. So in my book, one of the recipes is burgers with liver and just, you know, getting a little
• 9:26
  bit in in a way that's tasty and enjoyable. You know, it's fairly hidden, but it really enhances
• 9:33
  the flavor of the burgers actually quite good. So liver is one of my, you know, favorites for ancestral
• 9:38
  foods. Getting good quality grass fed more similar to how maybe, I mean, obviously they are,
• 9:45
  there's a husbandry involved, you know, it's like it wasn't necessarily wild as our true ancestors,
• 9:50
  but getting close to that wild caught fish, grass fed meat, those kinds of things. Usually most people
• 9:58
  I work with don't do wheat gluten or dairy. So, you know, staying away from those farmed grains,
• 10:06
  but particularly things like wheat and dairy. If you were working with a parent these days, you
• 10:14
  know, starting to work with somebody, is there just like one to three foods that you're just like,
• 10:18
  look, if you want to work with me, you have to be willing to cut these out. Is there, because I know
• 10:23
  you're very into bio individuality, but is there kind of like here are the foods I believe everyone
• 10:29
  should not be eating? I mean, I think a big one are things like sugar, but you know, honestly,
• 10:34
  that's a little bit of maybe even more difficult than something like gluten because gluten we can
• 10:40
  just take it out with sugar, you know, it's a little, I mean, I want them to reduce sugar as much as
• 10:46
  possible, but the things that absolutely zero of, I mean, like again, to be wonderful, there was,
• 10:52
  you know, zero added sugar. It depends how I answer the question. If I answer it from one side,
• 10:57
  it's no artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, all of those additives,
• 11:03
  ideally, be no refined foods, no refined sugar, no refined flour, things like that.
• 11:09
  However, on the other side, I'd say no gluten, no dairy. Is it almost like, let's eliminate these
• 11:17
  things at first and see how they're moving the needle or not moving the needle for your child? Exactly,
• 11:22
  that's why it's a little hard for me to answer the question. When you mention that it is, I have a
• 11:27
  12 step approach and the first one is remove the artificial stuff, but then second is add the
• 11:33
  good stuff and then we don't get to, you know, like avoid gluten and casing until we get to like
• 11:39
  step five, but I do think it's one of the most often valuable dietary trials. So that's why I
• 11:47
  guess it took me a little while to kind of answer that question. It does depend on the person.
• 11:52
  However, I do find that those are some of the things that are either generally not good for our
• 11:59
  health as humans in general or particularly problematic for people with autism.
• 12:06
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• 12:13
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• 12:18
  ancestral on Apple or Spotify and let's stay curious together. It sounds like nutrition for you is
• 12:26
  kind of the number one marker to look at with kids that are autistic or have ADHD or any other
• 12:35
  neurodevelopmental disorders, right? So why do you think it's the last thing that conventional
• 12:41
  medicine is looking at? Oh, that's a hard one because I don't necessarily know why, you know,
• 12:49
  it's not the first thing to think of. It's not that those other things aren't valuable. I always
• 12:54
  recommend people work with a great integrative medicine physician.
• 12:59
  This thing for me is that, you know, if we can work on some of the what I call the low hanging
• 13:03
  fruit, if we can improve hyperactivity, irritability, sleep, aggression with removing foods that are
• 13:10
  bothering them and adding good foods, then maybe their doctor can say, okay, we still have some
• 13:16
  issues in this area. Let's look at this medical thing or that thing or while they're waiting to
• 13:21
  get in with their pediatrician, I'm not even saying that the doctor needs to be second, but sometimes
• 13:26
  it highlights and brings to the forefront the things that really need a more significant approach.
• 13:34
  So I had a client that had severe aggression. And you know, if you're thinking that wow, I might
• 13:41
  have to get them some strong medication or I might have to put them in institution, but diet
• 13:47
  fixed to the problem, most parents are going to pick that approach first. And so trying to see if
• 13:55
  you can address certain things with diet, I think is a great way to go. So that's how I feel about
• 14:00
  it. I think it's just the school of thought that you're trained in and I give a lot of credit
• 14:05
  to doctors because they do very important life-saving amazing things. I actually did some research
• 14:12
  on this for my book and they only do get a couple hours of nutrition training in med school.
• 14:20
  And that's just a fact and they have other important, you know, life-saving things that they
• 14:26
  are spending their time on. I wish they'd spent more time on it. It's interesting they learn
• 14:32
  all the systems of the body, exactly how the biochemistry of the brain works and the liver works,
• 14:39
  but they don't really say, well, these are the nutrients we have to take into the body to create
• 14:45
  that glutathione or to do whatever it is that we need to do. It felt like it's an odd disconnect
• 14:51
  for me. I wish there was a little bit more of that. Yeah, absolutely. Really what we're talking about
• 14:57
  is, okay, so doctors have their place, but then clearly someone who focuses on the nutrition also
• 15:03
  has their place. And maybe they are separate roles, but maybe what needs to change is that we have
• 15:08
  to see them as separate roles. A lot of people see their doctors being the catch all for everything
• 15:13
  and maybe they're not, in a sense. So for the person that is like, if they have a child that's
• 15:20
  exhibiting ADHD, that's exhibiting autism, what do you think are the first steps someone should be
• 15:27
  taking? And if they are to, let's say, focus on food, what are they looking for in those first
• 15:34
  steps as they reach out side of their own family? There's clearly a role for nutritionists and
• 15:40
  dietitians in the world. I like that that a doctor doesn't have an hour and a half to necessarily go
• 15:46
  through every food. And so they're absolutely a role for people that specialize in nutrition.
• 15:52
  The thing is that most people go to their doctor as their first step, which again is great,
• 15:58
  important, wonderful. That's where I feel like if the first line, the doctors had a little more
• 16:05
  knowledge education in the power of nutrition, they might more readily recommend to people that could
• 16:13
  really be a great resource. Somebody in the nutrition field to help them. So that's what I would say.
• 16:18
  And then I would say if first steps for people, well, I think it does depend on their resources.
• 16:24
  I mean, I do have families in 146 countries that are part of our community. And so, you know,
• 16:31
  people have vastly different resources in their community and different things like that. So for
• 16:36
  some people, it might be going online and getting support from other families, learning what they
• 16:41
  did, figuring out, you know, their parents can be a wealth of information in terms of what could
• 16:47
  be some first steps. Why would I look at a gluten free and dairy free diet? How can I find
• 16:52
  products in my area that are free of the chemicals and dyes and things like that? So parents
• 16:57
  can be a great first step also talking to them about some good practitioners in their area that
• 17:04
  are well versed in nutrition. Maybe there's a good nutritionist or already or somebody in their
• 17:08
  area that is knowledgeable or find somebody online that's knowledgeable. And then that way they
• 17:15
  can get more personalized support. What is there anything though that you've experienced or you've
• 17:22
  learned in your 20 years that really kind of completely changed the way you even feed yourself.
• 17:29
  Because obviously you went down this path, you mentioned you got kind of focused on autism,
• 17:36
  you focused on the kids, but during I have to imagine that during that research, during writing
• 17:42
  these books that you may have actually learned something that may have been surprising first of all.
• 17:48
  And then too that you actually maybe changed how you even treated your own life.
• 17:53
  Definitely what's interesting is I must have studied this for many years before I realized I have
• 18:00
  a some of the similar underlying factors that kids with autism do. Now I'm not claiming by any
• 18:06
  means I am on the autism spectrum, but what's interesting is that certain things like methylation,
• 18:13
  they can affect people and it can create autism or ADHD or anxiety or depression or
• 18:19
  heart disease or cancer. And so sometimes even in a family, the child might have autism,
• 18:24
  but the sibling might have anxiety and the mother might have a digestive issue and the father might
• 18:29
  have an autoimmune issue. It's all the same underlying or very similar underlying genetics
• 18:35
  and even environment, but it's manifested differently. I learned a lot about myself in terms of
• 18:41
  some of my underlying factors and some of the nutrients that could be helpful to me, you know,
• 18:49
  things like methylation. Also, I think one of the things I learned with working with lots of
• 18:53
  families is, you know, there isn't one diet that works for everyone. There isn't even one
• 18:58
  diet that works for autism, which is why I talk about so many different diets. And I think that's
• 19:04
  one of the things I applied in my own life. And one of the things I think is an important point,
• 19:09
  say, whether it's in the book or just with practitioners, I train or whatever is evolving the
• 19:15
  diet over time and the diet is not static all the time. But the first family I told you about that
• 19:21
  first boy, he now, young man, he didn't a number of different diets over time. I could say,
• 19:30
  probably five different diets that I can think of over time and evolving it and it still evolves.
• 19:36
  And I would say that's one of the things I learned in my own life is that, oh,
• 19:40
  we went to a third world country, we got a parasite. Okay, I know that different kind of diet
• 19:44
  for my gut right now. Okay, we're dealing with this challenge in our family now. Okay,
• 19:50
  we're noticing a reaction to these types of foods. But my goal isn't to remain on that diet forever
• 19:54
  unless, unless it's, you know, somebody has celiac disease or something that just can't do
• 19:59
  something forever like gluten. But usually I like to think of the diets as kind of healing diets
• 20:05
  or removing the things that are causing inflammation. But then working on healing those underlying
• 20:12
  systems that are affected. So I try to think of diets use more that way. So I'd say that's one thing
• 20:18
  or a couple things that I have learned that I apply in my own family.
• 20:23
  So you haven't found necessarily one diet that supports, you know, the different levels of,
• 20:28
  let's say autism, like, oh, well, if it's mild than this diet works, if it's extreme,
• 20:34
  there's literally no through line for you. I would say there isn't. I would say that there
• 20:39
  are maybe through lines. So for example, in a study that we published about a year ago,
• 20:46
  we looked at 13 different therapeutic diets for autism. And not only did we find that they were
• 20:52
  significantly better in terms of overall benefit to the individuals compared to things like
• 21:00
  psychiatric and seizure medications and even actually nutritional supplements. And we also
• 21:05
  found that they were significantly less likely to create adverse effects. Inside of that study,
• 21:12
  though, if we dig down further, we looked at 24 different symptom improvements and different
• 21:17
  diets helped different symptoms more than others. So certain ones were better at improving certain
• 21:24
  symptoms. So last example is seizures. We've known for decades the ketogenic diet is a great
• 21:30
  diet for seizures. And yes, the study showed that for seizures, the ketogenic diet is the best
• 21:36
  diet. So there are some things I think we can take. We can look at underlying factors. We can look
• 21:43
  at symptoms and create these likely scenarios that certain diets are going to be maybe the best
• 21:51
  or beneficial with certain things, but not kind of more of a protocol. Like you have this,
• 21:57
  you do this diet. It's more complex. I know we started this out talking about the toxins that
• 22:02
  are in our world, but do you think that there is any contribution to autism and ADHD?
• 22:08
  You know, I use ancestral lots. So even though I'm not talking about our paleolithic answers,
• 22:13
  I'm just talking about like pre-i-phones. So do you think some of these technologies,
• 22:20
  some of these newer modern lifestyles are contributing to the symptoms?
• 22:26
  I do. You know, by both while it is on diet, there is a section on toxins and one of the things
• 22:34
  I put in there are EMFs. So there was a great series of papers by Dr. Martha Herbert who is a
• 22:41
  pediatric neurologist who looked at kind of the underlying biology going on in autism and compare
• 22:49
  that to the things that can happen to an organism or a cell or a person with EMFs and found a lot of
• 23:00
  correlations with that. And there are groups and organizations dedicated to really looking at that.
• 23:07
  So I think from a number of perspectives, also the brain involves a lot of neurotransmitters. And so
• 23:13
  I feel like we're getting and let's say too much dopamine or whatever it is from being on our
• 23:18
  screens all the time. I don't think that's going to be advantageous when we're already trying to work
• 23:24
  on the neurochemistry. So I think from the up perspective, there's a few things. And also if we look
• 23:29
  at ancestral living, there was a lot more activity, physical activity than we have in our world today.
• 23:37
  And that survey that I was talking about, that study we did on diet and looked at psychiatric
• 23:43
  and seizure medications and other things also looked at other therapies and looked at things like
• 23:47
  physical activity and it's physical activity has been shown to be very beneficial for people with
• 23:53
  autism. And I can tell you parents will often tell you the same thing. So I do think, you know,
• 23:58
  going back to even our childhood, not so maybe ancestral, but even even just a couple dozen years ago,
• 24:06
  we can see that a way of a more natural way of living, getting outside, getting out in nature,
• 24:13
  riding a horse, riding a bike, going for a walk, some sort of physical activity and less of that
• 24:20
  indoors on screens, I think does an important beneficial component.
• 24:27
  What about the pallets and textures for kids that have ADHD or autism? Sometimes it,
• 24:36
  depending on on the level of either those two specifically autism, it can play out where they
• 24:43
  are very picky, correct? Like very picky and very specific about what foods they're willing to eat.
• 24:51
  What are some of the tips you found to help break some of those cycles?
• 24:56
  Well, first I would say you're absolutely right. And so for parents that are listening,
• 25:01
  don't be disheartened or I would hope you won't be disheartened if you're struggling around feeding,
• 25:08
  you know, your child, because it is very common. 80% of kids with developmental delays have
• 25:14
  picky eating and with autism, there are more picky eating behaviors that in some of them very
• 25:20
  specific to autism. So a vast majority of my clients have picky eating habits. Even if your child
• 25:28
  has picky eating, I'm still including you in the conversation about improving diet because
• 25:36
  it is possible. I like to suggest things like texture is a big one. So how do we make vegetables,
• 25:46
  maybe crispy and crunchy at the beginning, to get them used to them, to get them more
• 25:50
  familiar with them in a texture they like, you know, over time you can evolve things as you can,
• 25:56
  but for now that's beneficial. And figuring out what it is they do like, so do they like certain
• 26:03
  textures and how can you make whatever it is, whether it's protein, maybe protein is too chewy for
• 26:09
  them, too dry and chewy. And so maybe you marinate it in a sauce or you braise it or you know,
• 26:18
  something like that. So figuring out how they like it and providing it that way. So you know,
• 26:24
  again, one of the recipes is like chicken pancakes. So it's like it's chicken and eggs into a pancake
• 26:31
  but in a form that kids tend to like. So I like to do that kind of thing. We're really look at
• 26:38
  how can I make it in a way that they're more willing to accept it.
• 26:44
  What do you say to some of those parents? I'm sure you've heard this before like, well, I don't
• 26:49
  think I should hide food from my kid, you know, I should, you know, they should know exactly
• 26:53
  what they're eating. What do you say to those people that come at diet and nutrition with very
• 26:59
  dogmatic perspectives? I wouldn't say you have to know your child because I would agree whenever
• 27:07
  I suggest ideas for getting vegetables in, I always say if you're going to hide it, you need to
• 27:12
  know your child because if you hide it for a child that is only has a few foods is highly suspicious
• 27:20
  and unlikely to take it and highly likely to reject it, you might lose an important food. So I
• 27:27
  think that, you know, I like to honor that there is some truth to it. However, on the other side,
• 27:33
  there are kids that, you know, they're just like, oh, I don't like anything green. It's yucky
• 27:38
  and it's just more of a mindset thing, but if you put it in a sauce, they don't know, they don't care.
• 27:45
  They just don't want to see it or they don't like the texture of it. And so you've put it in a form
• 27:49
  that is visually more appealing for them or texturally more appealing to them. So I think it does
• 27:55
  depend and I think it can be a tool, but not for everybody. You mentioned when you went down this path
• 28:02
  that you didn't have kids. Do you have kids now? Yes, I do. I do have a daughter.
• 28:08
  Oh, wonderful. But I'm curious early on when you didn't and you hear you were dispensing, you know,
• 28:15
  advice and support to parents, did you get any pushback of like, well, you don't know what I'm
• 28:19
  going through or anything like that? Surprisingly not. I mean, maybe they said it behind my back.
• 28:24
  I never heard that. I think people, I don't know, saw my sincerity and I always try to make things
• 28:31
  very based in science. So that's one of my favorite things that I've published to research papers.
• 28:36
  I love science. So most of what I talk about and recommend is based in the science behind it.
• 28:44
  And also a lot of evidence from a clinical perspective.
• 28:51
  How do you, though, reconcile? I mean, I feel like just in the last
• 28:56
  10 years, we have been revealed that so many scientific papers were doctored or were influenced by
• 29:05
  some big food or big pharma or something. So how do you reconcile trusting and digging into
• 29:11
  the science when we're also on the flip side being revealed that it's some of it and a lot of it
• 29:17
  is BS, that it's it's been human affected. Yes. That is a little more difficult. And I would say
• 29:25
  a couple things, a lot of studies. So I read a lot of studies. And some of it I did learn
• 29:32
  when getting my master's degree, like, how do you really tell a good study? So that might be a
• 29:36
  little challenging, maybe for some, you know, I'm not saying that everybody needs to understand
• 29:42
  what a good study design looks like. But what I would say is, okay, you want to know about the
• 29:47
  gluten-free dairy-free diet and a new paper. I'm just making this up right. A new paper comes out saying
• 29:52
  there isn't any science to it. It doesn't work. The media tends to really latch on to the stories
• 29:58
  that say diet doesn't work. But when the study comes out showing that diet does work,
• 30:03
  there's no buzz about it. You often don't hear about it. So that's why if you can read a number of
• 30:10
  studies, you can see the one, okay, let's read the ones that show it doesn't help. And let's read
• 30:15
  the ones that show it does help. And, you know, then you might find differences in how they were
• 30:20
  conducted. The randomized control trial we did, we did diet, but we also looked at whole-fazed
• 30:27
  approach of six different things, a multivitamin mineral formula, then essential fatty acids,
• 30:33
  all the way through a healthy gluten-free casing-free and soy-free diet. And we followed them for a
• 30:37
  year. So, you know, if you're following them for a few weeks, or you don't know how the diet
• 30:44
  was put together, or, you know, different things like that, you might not get the same results,
• 30:48
  or they don't follow it strictly. So with something like a gluten-free dairy-free diet,
• 30:53
  you really have to follow it very strictly in order to really get the benefits. If you're
• 30:58
  doing it 80%, you might not see those benefits. So I think reading the
• 31:03
  myriad of research on the topic will give you a broader perspective. And you'll see, you know,
• 31:08
  sometimes a study doesn't show something. And that's okay, but I don't know if you'll find any
• 31:13
  topic where a hundred percent of studies show that it works. And that could be from a variety of
• 31:20
  different factors. You know, we talked about ancestral food. So where do you think that
• 31:25
  ancestral intuitive instinct or knowledge comes in to play when you're trying to support these
• 31:32
  families? Like, because you know, there's always that piece of like mother's intuition, right?
• 31:38
  We talk about that. But when a child has autism, is their intuition kind of not as regarded
• 31:49
  because it's based on the condition, or if it's not as regarded, then is there any room for
• 31:56
  intuition in this circumstance? You know, I do very much believe in mother's intuition.
• 32:03
  So when I'm working with somebody, I will often, I might make a suggestion. But then I always
• 32:08
  check in with them. Does it resonate with them? Does it seem like the path they want to go down?
• 32:12
  That's that's number one. So I do believe in mother's intuition. I also think from the individual
• 32:18
  child, it does get a little tricky because I always want to honor any individual, whoever they
• 32:23
  are, whatever the age. So I always consider what they're, you know, let's say their behavior is
• 32:30
  like they don't want to eat something. Let's say I always consider that because I wouldn't want to
• 32:33
  ignore anybody, especially if they're nonverbal, there could be something that could be that that
• 32:39
  food is giving them heartburn. And it's not good for them right now or, you know, something like that.
• 32:45
  At the same time, they often do crave the very things that are the most problematic for them. So
• 32:52
  gluten and dairy, they can convert to opiates, they get strong cravings for those foods.
• 32:58
  That doesn't mean eat more of those foods. That might mean in that case that those foods are
• 33:02
  creating negative compounds. There are other foods like that where they often crave the very
• 33:08
  things that are problematic. So what I try to do is, okay, let's look at the foods that they want to
• 33:13
  eat. There are certain symptoms that are more associated in my experience with certain foods.
• 33:21
  So someone said that they had, let's say, pain, but they had pain and fatigue and other symptoms
• 33:31
  versus they had pain and hyperactivity and couldn't sleep at night. It might tell me something
• 33:36
  a little bit different, you know, different. So I like to look at what symptoms do they have?
• 33:41
  Did they correlate with the foods they're eating a lot of in my experience? And if so, then maybe
• 33:47
  those foods are contributing to those symptoms that they're having. And maybe that's kind of a red flag
• 33:53
  to look more at those foods. You know, if you crave sugar, should we say, oh, yeah, my intuition
• 34:01
  is telling me sugar is good for me. Most of us will say no, because sometimes we do crave the
• 34:06
  things that aren't good for us. But, you know, you'd be surprised. Sometimes the opposite is the case,
• 34:12
  but I like to, I just like to dig further and figure out what might be behind it.
• 34:19
  Yeah, I mean, because like in your example, maybe it's not literal. Like, oh, you're craving sugar.
• 34:25
  And I know most people would say, well, then that means they have a sweet tooth, but maybe it's
• 34:29
  that they need more fat in their diet or, you know, right? So it's just an indication of maybe that
• 34:34
  there's something else going on. So that's that's a nice way to look at, you know, look at the
• 34:38
  situation with what in your opinion, though, and from your experiences, the single biggest mistake
• 34:46
  parents make when trying to fix their child's diet. And what should they do instead?
• 34:52
  I would say that the first maybe mistake is that not realizing how important diet actually is.
• 34:59
  And, you know, there are a lot of challenges on a daily basis, just being a parent. And then if
• 35:05
  a parent with a child with some sort of ADHD, autism, special needs, developmental delays, there's
• 35:11
  a lot more day-to-day challenges. And it can be hard to commit to doing diet. So I would say that
• 35:18
  maybe the first one is not realizing the potential power of diet. For example, I gave of the child
• 35:25
  aggression, yeah, I'm sure it was work, but the power of that was pretty profound for them.
• 35:34
  And a lot of times parents don't realize that diet can have such an effect. So I think that might
• 35:43
  be one of the biggest maybe misconceptions. And I would say that maybe the biggest mistake they're
• 35:49
  making when they're doing diet might be that yes, a little bit can hurt. So they say, all right,
• 35:56
  well, we're doing gluten free and dairy free. But, you know, they go and spend a weekend with grandma,
• 36:03
  you know, every month. She loves to show love by baking her favorite cookies. And so, you know,
• 36:09
  can't hurt that much. I mean, everybody is well-meaning, but they might just they might not realize
• 36:15
  that actually the amount of a grain of rice or less than that could affect somebody for weeks.
• 36:24
  And could keep that inflammation going and those negative problematic compounds going for a long
• 36:31
  time. And so they never quite can get out of that. So I would say committing to the diet, just
• 36:37
  trying at 100% just to really get a sense of if it's working. You know, I have to imagine that
• 36:44
  stress is huge for families with children that are really exhibiting any of these, any of these
• 36:54
  issues, but particularly they really intense ones, right? That stress stresses must be just so high.
• 37:00
  So what tips do you have from your experience with all the families you've worked with in terms of
• 37:05
  managing that stress when they are first starting down this path of focusing on nutrition and food
• 37:12
  and making it's just starting to make these changes? Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because
• 37:17
  my book is based on a program. And you know, I have 12 steps that I mentioned and I struggle because
• 37:22
  it's a it's a nutrition program. But the middle step of the program is take care of yourself.
• 37:30
  Because if you don't, then it's hard to help anybody else. It's hard to have the energy,
• 37:36
  the mental fortitude, everything that you need on a daily basis in order to help your child.
• 37:42
  And so I struggled on, you know, is this going to resonate with people? Should I put this in?
• 37:47
  Because they want to help their child with nutrition. That's what the the book is for. That's
• 37:51
  what the program is for. But I that's no, I've got to put it in because like you said, it is so
• 37:56
  important. So, you know, there's a whole chapter on stress, stress relieving things, nourishing
• 38:03
  yourself. I mean, one of the things I talk about is I personally love EFT. So tapping, I personally
• 38:09
  really find that to be helpful. But maybe it's going for a walk connecting with your friends.
• 38:17
  You know, when I'm going through something stressful, you know, I've got some good friends
• 38:20
  on speed dial and I could call them every day sometimes because sometimes you just get triggered
• 38:27
  and or you get negative thoughts or stressed out and you just need somebody to help you in that
• 38:33
  moment. So somebody that understands you, that's why having a community like this is so valuable.
• 38:39
  In fact, I'm surprised sometimes that some people say that in my nutrition program,
• 38:44
  the most valuable thing is the community. And I'm thinking not all the nutrition advice,
• 38:49
  but really truly that is very important. So I would say for stress, you know, whether it's
• 38:56
  get out, go for a walk, take care of yourself, eat something yourself. Parents are often the last
• 39:01
  people to take care of themselves. You know, they cooked food for everybody else in the family and
• 39:05
  then they don't eat themselves. So really encouraging them to find time that they eat and get
• 39:12
  some fresh air and and do those kinds of things. Loss of community seems to be one of the biggest
• 39:20
  culprits of so many of our disorders in modern society, you know, that we've lost. And
• 39:24
  sesterly, I think we were designed to be parts of communities and and it just seems to be isolation
• 39:33
  just seems to be increasing more and more with our modern lives. So tell us about the bio individual
• 39:40
  nutrition institute speaking of community. Yes. All right. So that's actually for my practitioner.
• 39:46
  So if practitioners want to learn how to do personalized nutrition, they can learn that at
• 39:51
  bio individual nutrition. Again, it's one of those things we meet every month. We go through,
• 39:56
  you know, all sorts of really valuable things like how to help people with autism. The other
• 40:02
  community that I think might resonate really with people that are interested and I'll just share
• 40:07
  with them. So my new book that just came out has a program associated and has a community associated
• 40:14
  and that is nourishing hope. They can absolutely get the book, find it online, but if they want
• 40:21
  that community, they can join us over there and really get that support on how to implement these
• 40:28
  things, you know, all of that. So there are a variety of ways I try to support parents. So those are
• 40:34
  kind of the main two communities and the nourishing hope community is the one I mentioned that has
• 40:39
  146 different countries. People represented from all over the world. You would be surprised,
• 40:47
  which is why sometimes even something like coconut might be very, very difficult to find or might
• 40:52
  be very easy to find. So, you know, every, you know, it depends where they're from and that's why
• 40:57
  being able to connect with others and just, you know, also emotionally as well as getting
• 41:02
  nutrition help, which really kind of puts even more fuel towards the bio individual eating.
• 41:07
  If you're working with so many people throughout the world, you can't really say like, okay,
• 41:12
  everyone eat this because it's to your point. It's not going to be available everywhere.
• 41:17
  Absolutely. In fact, my first book that I had written was published in Japanese and when we
• 41:22
  really dove into it, there's different foods. There's different foods. They obviously,
• 41:26
  every culture has different foods. They have access to, but there's different foods that they
• 41:29
  eat a lot of. They might have some additional sensitivities based on the foods they eat a lot of.
• 41:36
  You know, so obviously we know that different cultures have different foods, different availability
• 41:41
  of foods, different traditions, but also they might have somewhat unique reactions to foods,
• 41:47
  which is again, where that personalized element comes in.
• 41:51
  Well, I'm grateful for you taking the time to talk about your work and your experiences,
• 41:56
  because I really do, I said this when we started, but you know, kids really are, I believe,
• 42:01
  the canaries in the coal mine and that it's really important to take note of the health of our
• 42:07
  children because they're a guide for how well things are in my judgment. You know, like,
• 42:14
  how is our environment? How is this modern way of living working? How are these, you know,
• 42:20
  standard American diet foods working? You know, they are the indicators, because they are
• 42:25
  going to affect them on a deeper level than maybe someone who's, you know, in their 50s,
• 42:30
  who was grew up at a different age or whatnot, right? Their systems are more delicate early on,
• 42:35
  right? So they're, it's going to show up. Any issues that we are experiencing as a society
• 42:40
  are going to show up in our kids first in my judgment? Absolutely. And I used to have a slide for
• 42:47
  many years that children with autism are the canaries in the coal mine, because in addition to
• 42:52
  being children, they tend to often, maybe their systems are, you know, maybe like, again,
• 42:59
  go to detoxification, right? It's a little bit, might be a little bit less. They tend to react
• 43:04
  more. They tend to be a little more deficient. They tend to need more of the good nutrition
• 43:09
  and more of the therapeutic diets than maybe even other children might need. So I agree with you
• 43:15
  completely on how important our children's health is because they are more sensitive and they're
• 43:23
  smaller beings compared to the level of toxic load that they would get exposed to.
• 43:30
  Thank you again for joining. And what are some other ways people can learn and connect with you?
• 43:37
  I would say maybe the primary way would be they can go on, if they want to get a copy of my new book,
• 43:42
  the personalized autism nutrition plan, they can go to any major retailer, look up Julie Matthews,
• 43:48
  autism nutrition, they'll be able to find it. That might be a really great way to
• 43:53
  for them to connect with me besides the websites that I was mentioning. Any last kind of tip you
• 43:59
  want any families that are just getting exposed to realizing their child has autism or even their
• 44:05
  child just got diagnosed with ADHD. Any last remaining tip you just would like to impart to them?
• 44:11
  Keep going and then we go back to the intuition, intuition, trust your intuition. If you feel
• 44:17
  that there might be something related to their diet, they may think it needs to be improved
• 44:22
  more or if you feel that there's something in there that's bothering them to just follow that and
• 44:28
  do some research, do some reading, see what you can figure out and maybe talk to somebody,
• 44:33
  try something, but it really goes down with trusting your intuition and exploring it further.
• 44:40
  Yeah, and I would echo that and just say that, and you mentioned this early on, but it's the
• 44:44
  lowest hanging fruit. It's the thing that we do daily, multiple times daily, and my judgment should
• 44:50
  be the first thing we look at because it doesn't require paying a lot of money to just start being
• 44:56
  curious about is this affecting our health? You simply can just go online, start looking it up,
• 45:02
  start pulling out certain foods, try new things. It truly is the lowest hanging, lowest cost fruit
• 45:09
  because once you start going to a practitioner, bills will start to get higher.
• 45:14
  Exactly. It's true. It's something we all have to eat and it's something we have control over
• 45:21
  because we feed ourselves, we feed our children. It's nice in that way as well because we have
• 45:27
  it's something that can empower us. Yeah, well, thank you, Julie, and thank you all for
• 45:34
  participating in this episode. Just keep curious and keep asking those questions, and if there's
• 45:40
  anything we learned today is, is try to incorporate those ancestral concepts of real nutrient
• 45:47
  foods, community, and getting outdoors. Thank you so much for joining me on everyday ancestral.
• 45:57
  If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You could find
• 46:02
  the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's E-A-T-P-L-U-C-K dot com.
• 46:13
  And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious,
• 46:20
  live well, and keep it ancestral.