Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E46 An Interview with Amanda Catarzi Hengst and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: S1E46 An Interview with Amanda Catarzi Hengst and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:16
  Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building
• 0:20
  Profitable Connections. Welcome back to the show,
• 0:23
  folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
• 0:26
  listening to the podcast where networking is
• 0:29
  more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
• 0:32
  It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
• 0:35
  It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
• 0:39
  Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
• 0:41
  corner at every event pretending to check emails.
• 0:46
  Networking isn't just a nice skill to have, it's
• 0:49
  a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll
• 0:52
  wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections,
• 0:55
  more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking
• 1:00
  a cheat code for life. So whether you're the
• 1:03
  life of the party or the just let me stay at
• 1:05
  home and text type, we've got something for you.
• 1:08
  So stick around. Let's turn those awkward small
• 1:11
  talk moments into big wins. I've got actually
• 1:16
  an incredible guest today. Her name is Amanda
• 1:19
  Hanks, and she's got really a comprehensive background,
• 1:24
  but I'm going to let her go into it. But I will
• 1:27
  just say that Amanda survived cult life and trafficking
• 1:32
  to become the millionaire muse. And her journey
• 1:37
  embodies resilience transformed into results.
• 1:41
  So without butchering that too much, Amanda,
• 1:45
  welcome to the podcast. And why don't you tell
• 1:47
  us a little bit more about your background? Yeah,
• 1:49
  thank you so much for having me. So yeah, as
• 1:52
  you said, I was raised in a very unconventional,
• 1:54
  ultra conservative cult. And then after we outgrew
• 1:58
  that and got out of the cult, in my adult life,
• 2:01
  I ended up being sex and labor trafficked by
• 2:04
  my ex -boyfriend. All those things serve to teach
• 2:09
  me how to become a better communicator and writer.
• 2:12
  So I'm grateful for those opportunities that
• 2:15
  have now served me. And so now I write and I
• 2:18
  help people communicate and connect with impact
• 2:22
  and with a strategy. And yeah, I'm super blessed.
• 2:27
  That's fantastic. There is a local organization
• 2:30
  called Revved Up Kids. And they have a website
• 2:35
  revvedupkids .org, which I think you might find
• 2:39
  very interesting. And they're actually a sponsor
• 2:42
  for the podcast, but it falls right along the
• 2:45
  lines of trafficking and protecting the young
• 2:48
  girls from their family, basically, or anybody
• 2:51
  else. But just to take a look into that. How
• 2:55
  does effective copywriting contribute to building
• 2:59
  strong, profitable business relationships? And
• 3:04
  it's... The whole reason for strong, profitable
• 3:07
  businesses, because copywriting is a form of
• 3:11
  communication. And it's a form that most of your
• 3:15
  leads or business partners or people interested
• 3:18
  in you will encounter first before they actually
• 3:20
  get the opportunity to encounter you. They read
• 3:22
  something online. They see content online. They
• 3:26
  see words online, add something. So copywriting
• 3:29
  is usually people's first and last impression
• 3:32
  of you. So it is the most. important piece of
• 3:36
  business, I would dare say, because it's communication
• 3:40
  and communication is what makes the world go
• 3:44
  round. Absolutely right. The networking and communication
• 3:48
  is the crux of, I would say, every business,
• 3:52
  but it's every person as well. So it's very important.
• 3:56
  What are customer pain points most businesses
• 4:01
  overlook when crafting their message? They often
• 4:06
  tend to try to speak with their own voice. to
• 4:11
  the person they are right now instead of looking
• 4:15
  at who their ideal client is and speaking to
• 4:17
  that person. They get too caught up in their
• 4:20
  own brand voice or their own personal voice that
• 4:23
  they forget that they're not trying to sell themselves.
• 4:25
  They're trying to sell themselves five years
• 4:27
  ago and they want to go too deep too quick and
• 4:30
  they completely go over their prospects heads
• 4:33
  completely or the person they're looking to connect
• 4:35
  with. That's very good information and very good
• 4:39
  insights. How can professionals use networking
• 4:42
  insights to create more persuasive and conversation
• 4:47
  -driven copy? I love the test of seeing how people
• 4:52
  introduce me, because how they introduce me is
• 4:55
  how they actually perceive me, and it tells me
• 4:58
  what my communication and how they're interpreting.
• 5:02
  either my copy or my communication. That's a
• 5:04
  telltale sign. If they don't know how to explain
• 5:07
  who you are or what you do, that's a massive
• 5:10
  problem and a massive disconnect. So I'm always
• 5:12
  curious in networking events or even situations
• 5:15
  like this, how people end up introducing you
• 5:18
  to other people. Pay attention to that because
• 5:19
  that will give you insight into how people are
• 5:22
  interpreting your copy or your messaging. And
• 5:25
  then also you get to practice new different lines.
• 5:29
  You get to practice new different. catchphrases.
• 5:32
  You get to practice new different titles that
• 5:34
  you want to try. And it's a really great instant
• 5:37
  feedback. People go, oh, you know, that's usually
• 5:40
  a good sign. Or if they go, okay, then that means
• 5:43
  you're boring. So paying attention to how people
• 5:46
  interact with you when you talk about what you
• 5:48
  do, how people introduce you is almost instant
• 5:52
  marketing feedback and very valuable data. Yeah.
• 5:57
  You're touching on so many points, so many networking
• 5:59
  points, which are so on point that I can't, I
• 6:04
  don't know where to begin. As far as I'm concerned,
• 6:06
  you're doing everything correct. When you give
• 6:09
  that 30 second elevator pitch or speech that
• 6:12
  you want to give, you're seeing the reaction.
• 6:15
  So if the reaction isn't good from what you say,
• 6:18
  then you're like, all right, I'm going to scrub
• 6:20
  that. And I'm going to try something else. So
• 6:23
  you're right. So you see by the actions and reactions
• 6:25
  of everybody concerned. Can you share a framework
• 6:29
  or method for crafting copy that speaks directly
• 6:33
  to a customer's pain points? That's a good one.
• 6:37
  What I normally do when I'm writing is I look
• 6:41
  at what I want the end result or emotion to be.
• 6:45
  And I work backwards from that emotion. So if
• 6:49
  I want. peace, then I start working backwards
• 6:53
  with how do I create the emotion of peace inside
• 6:56
  that and what words am I using? And I start to
• 6:59
  curate the phrases, even the pattern, even the
• 7:03
  rhythm of the sentence, the rhetoric around how
• 7:06
  do I create a nice and consistent pace so that
• 7:10
  it feels peaceful versus if I want to create
• 7:12
  urgency, I'm going to jumble a bunch of words
• 7:14
  together. I'm going to use short sentences. I'm
• 7:16
  going to use all capitals. I'm going to create.
• 7:18
  structure it differently to create a different
• 7:21
  emotion. So I start at the end emotion and work
• 7:23
  my way backwards. That's great. And I want to
• 7:27
  touch upon something that is relevant to this,
• 7:30
  but also the question before is that you have
• 7:33
  to have active listening. You have to be able
• 7:37
  to listen to everybody, not hear them, but actually
• 7:40
  listen to them. And of course, then there is
• 7:43
  the pause. after the listen, because what does
• 7:46
  that tell the person that you were listening?
• 7:49
  So you might say, I understand that you said
• 7:53
  blah, blah, blah. So that tells them that you
• 7:55
  were listening to what they have to say. And
• 7:58
  it really, it makes them feel better. It invokes
• 8:01
  a bit of confidence and it tells them what you're
• 8:04
  doing. A hundred percent. What strategies do
• 8:08
  you recommend for quickly identifying a potential
• 8:12
  client's true needs? during a conversation or
• 8:15
  networking event? I let them tell me. So a lot
• 8:21
  of times I'll lead with what's going on in your
• 8:24
  world? What's something good? What's something
• 8:26
  bad going on in your world? And if they immediately
• 8:28
  go to business, then I know that's where their
• 8:31
  focus is. If they go to something outside of
• 8:34
  business, whether it's family or my kid's been
• 8:37
  sick or something like that, then I can get a
• 8:39
  grip on where. their priorities are at, not to
• 8:44
  say like one's better than the other. It's just
• 8:45
  where their mind frame is. And then I start navigating
• 8:49
  that and connecting with them on that level.
• 8:53
  So I ask a lot of open -ended questions that
• 8:57
  will let them tell on themselves. So I don't
• 9:00
  go in and say, you need copywriting and I'm pitching
• 9:03
  email sequences to you. Where's your bottleneck
• 9:06
  in your business? What do you hate about entrepreneurship?
• 9:09
  What's the one thing that drives you crazy about
• 9:11
  running your business? And then whether or not
• 9:14
  I'm the direct solution or I give a referral,
• 9:17
  I'm going to be a solution no matter what to
• 9:20
  them. I'm going to bring value no matter what
• 9:22
  to them. So I let them lead the way. Very good.
• 9:25
  Very good. Because you have to remember that
• 9:28
  everyone's got a problem and you're there to
• 9:33
  solve their problem, whether you can do it or
• 9:35
  not. It's up to you. But if you can refer them,
• 9:39
  because you're not going to leave it open -ended.
• 9:41
  You're there to help them. And if you help them
• 9:44
  by referring them to somebody who can help them,
• 9:47
  that's great. But they will always remember you
• 9:50
  for that. You're striking it rich every time.
• 9:54
  Or they might not be in a place to where they
• 9:58
  need me yet. They might not have their LLC set
• 10:01
  up. They might not have even their business formatted
• 10:04
  or their system. So it might be a train wreck
• 10:06
  if I try to get in and help them right now. So
• 10:09
  if I can set them up for success to where I can
• 10:12
  get them to a place to where they'll actually
• 10:14
  need me and my services, that's a win as well.
• 10:18
  Absolutely. And if you put all their information
• 10:21
  into your CRM or whatever you use, and you may
• 10:24
  deal with them six months down the road. Just
• 10:27
  touching them like once a month or something.
• 10:29
  Say, hey, look, I'm here. How's this? Or how's
• 10:32
  that? How's it going? And you're keeping in their
• 10:35
  mind. So again, that's very good. Okay. So what
• 10:39
  are some real world examples of what great copy
• 10:43
  turned a casual business connection into a long
• 10:47
  -term client? Goodness. My mind is running a
• 10:54
  million different directions. When you walk,
• 10:58
  when you talk about nurturing a lead for more
• 11:01
  than six months, this is probably when I teach
• 11:04
  younger kids. I'm going to call them kids, but
• 11:07
  they're in their twenties, younger kids, how
• 11:09
  to write and how to sell. They're like, I haven't
• 11:12
  heard from in a week. So I moved on and I'm like,
• 11:14
  are you crazy? So all that to say, I had one
• 11:19
  person and I really, I felt something in my gut
• 11:23
  about her and I pursued this lead. For four years.
• 11:30
  Four years. And then finally, and there were
• 11:33
  so many moments where we almost closed the deal.
• 11:36
  There were so many moments where we almost did
• 11:38
  things time and time again, three or four times.
• 11:41
  Finally, we were there at the deal close. And
• 11:44
  I'm like, this is when she normally walks. So
• 11:47
  I did not have a lot of hope tied to it. But
• 11:50
  then the wire came through and she's spent over.
• 11:55
  a hundred and fifty thousand dollars with me
• 11:57
  within a couple months so it was well worth that
• 12:01
  nurture and it was well worth a casual conversation
• 12:05
  of I would love to do this for you and just offering
• 12:08
  value offering support offering a script or an
• 12:12
  email or just favors now and then and again to
• 12:15
  get her to a point to where she was ready to
• 12:17
  I had so much trust and history built with her
• 12:20
  that she was more than willing once she finally
• 12:23
  got to that point to spend a lot of money. And
• 12:26
  so we just finished her book is one of the things
• 12:29
  we've done for her. And it's in editing right
• 12:32
  now. So it's going to come out pretty soon. Good.
• 12:35
  That falls along the lines of, because in networking,
• 12:38
  the networking world, if they know you, if they
• 12:41
  like you, if they trust you, they'll do business
• 12:44
  with you. And you built that trust because your
• 12:47
  whole thing when you're meeting somebody, whatever,
• 12:49
  is to break down that wall. and to build up your
• 12:52
  trust. And that's what you did. That's what you
• 12:55
  did over the four years, of course. But then
• 12:58
  when it came time to her signing on the dotted
• 13:00
  line, there was no problem because she trusted
• 13:03
  you. And that's the whole thing. Very good. Okay.
• 13:08
  So get ready for this questions. Okay. What are
• 13:13
  the biggest mistakes people make when trying
• 13:15
  to write persuasive copy for their business?
• 13:21
  They are too focused on selling and forget that
• 13:25
  they're talking to a human and they need to connect
• 13:28
  with a human first. So they go straight into
• 13:30
  this weird, like when you go to Starbucks and
• 13:33
  that there's that customer service voice and
• 13:35
  they're like, hi, welcome to Starbucks. They
• 13:37
  do not talk that way in normal life. And people
• 13:42
  slip into this customer service voice when they
• 13:46
  start writing copy and they forget that there's
• 13:49
  a human that they're interacting with. They don't
• 13:51
  have to put on that weird customer service robotic
• 13:53
  voice. Just talk like a normal person and it's
• 13:57
  going to go over so much better. So I talk people
• 14:00
  out of, I'm like, stop it. Stop selling. Start
• 14:03
  connecting. You don't need more leads. You need
• 14:06
  more conversations. Very good. Very good. Very
• 14:11
  good. Because really, and I say this because
• 14:15
  it's as of the pandemic, because the days of.
• 14:18
  you're building your customer base, that's really
• 14:21
  out the window. This is now a time of building
• 14:25
  relationships. And those relationships will become
• 14:29
  fruitful, of course, but it's all about you and
• 14:34
  your follow -up to the people that you just met
• 14:36
  and everything comes together. Yeah, the money
• 14:39
  is always in the follow -up and value -based
• 14:42
  follow -up, not just, hey. What do you think?
• 14:45
  Hey, you ready to sign? Hey, you ready to get
• 14:47
  to work? No, it's, oh, I saw this article about
• 14:50
  pickleball and I know you mentioned you love
• 14:52
  pickleball and I thought of you. Or saw that
• 14:56
  you were having a rough day. Here's a $5 gift
• 14:59
  card to Starbucks. It doesn't take much. It doesn't
• 15:04
  take much. Just knowing that you cared that much
• 15:08
  about me and I'll always keep you top of mind.
• 15:12
  And that's the way to do it. How can someone
• 15:16
  who isn't a natural writer improve their ability
• 15:19
  to craft compelling messages for networking follow
• 15:23
  -ups? Chat GPT. Okay, I say this, with great
• 15:31
  power comes great responsibility. So chat GPT
• 15:33
  is a tool. It is not an end -all be -all. But
• 15:37
  what you can do is compose your first draft,
• 15:40
  throw it into chat GPT and ask it, hey, I need
• 15:44
  you to be my copywriter. Where would you improve
• 15:47
  this? This is a follow -up email. I want it to
• 15:50
  be casual. I want it to be warm conversation,
• 15:52
  whatever adjectives you want to use. And it'll
• 15:55
  generate. My favorite thing to do with ChatGPT
• 15:57
  right now, I go, is that the best you can do?
• 15:59
  Is what I ask it. And it like snaps to attention
• 16:03
  and gives me some great results after I challenge
• 16:06
  it. That's super funny. But I... I think people
• 16:09
  are under utilizing ChatGBT because they're afraid
• 16:12
  and there may be they don't understand how to
• 16:14
  use it in a way that will maximize their skill.
• 16:18
  They're relying on it for skill completely. And
• 16:22
  no, use it like a tutor. Use it like a tool.
• 16:24
  Use it as something that can train you to be
• 16:27
  better because it most definitely can. And what
• 16:31
  you said was so. Correct. I don't know if you
• 16:34
  can put a thing on correct, but ChatGPT is a
• 16:38
  tool for them to use. And if they're just starting
• 16:40
  out, it's a great tool for them to start, but
• 16:43
  they have to put their own personality into it,
• 16:46
  their own spin and everything. So just use it
• 16:49
  as a tool. Don't use it as an end all. No, you
• 16:53
  should always have the last human touch on it.
• 16:56
  You should never let ChatGPT have the last touch
• 16:58
  on your copy ever. Absolutely. Absolutely. With
• 17:03
  the rise of AI and automation, how can professionals
• 17:07
  ensure their messaging still feels personal and
• 17:11
  authentic? This leads right into that. Hire a
• 17:14
  copywriter. Because I talk with copywriters all
• 17:19
  the time and I use ChatGPT, I use Claude, I use
• 17:23
  AI tools constantly. If you're not, you're going
• 17:25
  to fall behind. But again, it's using it in the
• 17:28
  right way. So ChatGPT is not a creator. It is
• 17:32
  a condenser and clarifier. Sam Altman actually
• 17:35
  gave an interview on this and he said people
• 17:38
  are using it completely wrong. They're using
• 17:40
  ChatGPT to create and expand when it was built
• 17:43
  to condense and clarify. So what you need to
• 17:46
  do is word vomit onto ChatGPT and ask it to clarify,
• 17:52
  condense, cut it down. instead of asking it to
• 17:55
  create. We as humans, we're one of the few creatures
• 17:58
  that can actually create brand new organic things.
• 18:01
  And I have a whole weird spiritual theory about
• 18:04
  this, but I won't bore you with that. And when
• 18:07
  we create, there's a soul to it. There's some
• 18:09
  soul to it, right? Some grip, some human element
• 18:13
  to it that we can't quite put our finger on when
• 18:15
  we see art, when we experience music, when we
• 18:18
  experience anything that's been created. And
• 18:20
  we often recognize that there's a soullessness
• 18:24
  to the AI copy. So again, use it, but then sprinkle
• 18:29
  your special sauce onto it after you've used
• 18:33
  it for the first draft. Put that human element,
• 18:35
  use the psychology. I started a series called
• 18:38
  Things Chat GPT Can't Do on LinkedIn. And I'm
• 18:42
  diving into the different psychology approaches
• 18:45
  that ChatGBT won't think to do. I'm diving into
• 18:47
  the different rhythms of rhetoric that are used
• 18:50
  from great writers, from great speech givers.
• 18:53
  And it's stuff that ChatGBT doesn't think to
• 18:56
  do because it doesn't think. It just copies.
• 18:59
  So I'm all for using AI. I love automation. It's
• 19:04
  maximized my business, 10x my business for sure.
• 19:07
  But again, using it responsibly. That's terrific.
• 19:12
  You sound like you've been so successful. But
• 19:16
  along the way, you had to make mistakes. So what
• 19:21
  mistake? Give me the biggest mistake you've made
• 19:24
  and how you overcame it. Goodness. I failed fast
• 19:33
  and hard. I think the biggest mistake was letting
• 19:38
  other people dictate my worth and try to make
• 19:42
  me write in a different way. And I made the wrong
• 19:47
  people successful with my copy. So now I know
• 19:51
  the power I have as a copywriter and that I will
• 19:56
  make you successful. If you bring me into your
• 19:59
  team, that's a no. It's straight up going to
• 20:03
  happen. So now I'm in a space to where I can
• 20:05
  choose who I work with. And I do that by not
• 20:09
  really caring about how much money you make,
• 20:11
  not really caring about where your brand is.
• 20:13
  All I care about is your character and your integrity.
• 20:16
  Are you someone that if I help elevate you, will
• 20:20
  you operate in integrity? And if that's a yes,
• 20:23
  then I want to work with you. If that's questionable,
• 20:25
  I will not work with you. Because yeah, I mean,
• 20:29
  it works and to not doubt my own worth. But then
• 20:32
  there's also been things where I've had, I know
• 20:34
  my lane and I know my niche and I know who I
• 20:37
  write for my ideal client. And anytime I move
• 20:40
  outside that lane, I end up regretting it. Anytime
• 20:44
  I compromise on my systems or my process, I instantly
• 20:48
  regret it. So do not do it. Stick with your systems
• 20:51
  and processes. Gotcha. Gotcha. And in being a
• 20:55
  public speaker and coach and trainer, I learned
• 21:01
  that pick a lane, stick to the lane, pick one
• 21:05
  idea, one thought, and just stay in that lane.
• 21:09
  Now, of course, unless you're a Tony Robbins
• 21:12
  and you can talk about anything, but pick a lane
• 21:15
  and you're talking about doing the same thing.
• 21:17
  Okay, let's bring this full circle. What's one
• 21:21
  immediate change? Listeners can make to their
• 21:24
  networking follow -ups or marketing copy to improve
• 21:28
  engagement and conversations. I think people
• 21:34
  get discouraged after three or five follow -ups.
• 21:38
  It takes seven to 10 points of contacts for a
• 21:41
  sale. And that's true also for social work. It
• 21:44
  takes seven to 10 points of contact that I found
• 21:47
  as a social worker to bring someone into recovery
• 21:49
  or out of their toxic system into a better one.
• 21:53
  So don't get discouraged and don't quit so early
• 21:57
  on. And then also be focused on impact and value,
• 22:01
  not the sale. And if you're focused on creating
• 22:04
  a positive impact and bringing value, you're...
• 22:07
  sales and profits are going to be a happy consequence
• 22:10
  of that focus. I truly believe whenever you go
• 22:16
  to a networking event or meet somebody or anything
• 22:19
  else, you always look to give, not receive. Zig
• 22:23
  Ziglar came out with looking to give and not
• 22:27
  receive, and it'll come back to you. But it's
• 22:30
  a great philosophy because then you don't have
• 22:33
  to worry about it. Because it will come back
• 22:35
  to you. Amanda, this was fantastic. I can probably
• 22:38
  talk to you for another hour. But if somebody
• 22:41
  wants to get hold of you, the best way, what's
• 22:44
  the best way to get hold of you? Honestly, Instagram.
• 22:48
  I live on Instagram. And it's Amanda Katarzy,
• 22:51
  which is my maiden name, is my handle. Okay,
• 22:55
  very good. Amanda, thank you so much for coming
• 22:59
  on the podcast today. Thank you so much for having
• 23:01
  me. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
• 23:05
  Let me just read a few of our sponsors that we
• 23:07
  have. Struggling to read success? Maybe it's
• 23:11
  time to quit. In Quit Your Way to Success by
• 23:14
  Rodney Davis, this reveals 27 steps to breaking
• 23:19
  bad habits that hold you back. This powerful
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• 23:25
  of your actions, and turn setbacks into stepping
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  stones. With real -life examples, motivational
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  quotes, and actionable lessons, especially for
• 23:36
  sales professionals. You'll gain the tools to
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  quit, what's stopping you, and start winning.
• 23:40
  Transform your future today. So Quit Your Way
• 23:44
  to Success by Rodney Davis, available now on
• 23:48
  Amazon. And this is a nonprofit called Revved
• 23:52
  Up Kids. This is something I believe in wholeheartedly.
• 23:56
  Revved Up Kids is on a mission to protect children
• 23:59
  and teens from sexual abuse, exploitation, and
• 24:03
  trafficking. They provide prevention training
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  programs for children, teens, and adults. To
• 24:09
  learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. That's R
• 24:13
  -E -V -V -E -D -U -P -K -I -D -S -O -R -G. All
• 24:19
  right, folks. A huge thank you to our guests
• 24:22
  for sharing such incredible insights today. And
• 24:25
  of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
• 24:28
  listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
• 24:31
  with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
• 24:35
  being coached, or having me come and talk to
• 24:37
  your company, just go to Michael and fill out
• 24:41
  the request form. Remember, networking isn't
• 24:44
  about being perfect. It's about being present.
• 24:48
  So take what you've learned today, get out there,
• 24:50
  and make some meaningful connections. If you've
• 24:53
  enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to
• 24:56
  subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with
• 24:59
  someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
• 25:02
  Let's keep the conversation going. You can find
• 25:06
  me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my
• 25:10
  website, foreman .com slash podcasts.