Latest / The Occult Rejects / The Grimoire Tradition: David Rankine on Spirits, Circles, Seals, and Sacred Names

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The Grimoire Tradition: David Rankine on Spirits, Circles, Seals, and Sacred Names · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see somethings are going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: What I.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: Welcome back to the occult rejects. Today we are joined
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: once again by David Rankin, author, researcher, magician, and one
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: of the most important modern voices working with the Grimore tradition. Today,
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: we are not treating Grimore's as curiosities, props, or spooky antiques.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: We are treating them as what they actually are, ritual
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: systems preserved in book form. These are texts built out
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: of prayers, conjurations, seals, names, circles, tools, planetary timing, purification rights,
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: spared hierarchies, and very specific instructions for approaching the invisible.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: A grimoire is not only something you read. In many cases,
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: it is something you enter. These books sit in the
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: strange territory between religion and magic, between devotion and command,
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: between manuscript culture and lived ritual. They draw from Christian prayer,
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: Jewish angelology, Solemonic legend, classical astrology, Arabic occult philosophy, folk magic, neoplatonism,
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: and the older magical currents of the Mediterranean world. They
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: are not clean texts, They are layered texts. They carry
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: copying errors, adaptations, theological tensions, regional practices, scribal fingerprints, and
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  Speaker 4: the accumulated pressure of centuries of practitioners trying to speak
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: with angels, demons, planetary intelligences, and spirits of every kind.
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  Speaker 4: That is what makes them so powerful and so difficult.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: Modern occultism often strips these books down to their most
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: dramatic images, the demon, the seal, the circle, the triangle,
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: the command. But the older material is much more demanding
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: than that. It asks the practitioner to prepare the body,
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  Speaker 4: purify the mind, consecrate the tools, observe the timing, invoke
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: divine authority, construct sacred space, and stand inside a cosmology
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: where every word, name, gesture, and material has weight. This
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: is why David Ranking is such an important guest for
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  Speaker 4: this conversation. His work does not reduce Grimore's to fantasy, superstition,
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: or esthetics. He spent decades studying the manuscripts, tracing the
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: spear catalogs, comparing the rituals, restoring neglected material, and approaching
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: these texts as both a scholar and a practitioner. So
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: today we are going into the old books. We are
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: going to ask what a grimwaar really is what this
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: tradition comes from, why Solomon became the great mythic authority
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: of magical literature, how angels and demons are organized, why
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: circles and seals matter, what divine names are doing inside
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: these rights, and whether the Grimware tradition can still be
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: approached seriously today without turning it into cosplay, empty religion
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: or warded down a cult theater. Because maybe the real
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: question is now whether these books still have power. Maybe
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: the deeper question is this, what does a book become
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: when it is written as a doorway? And that's enough
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: out of me, and I'm going to introduce the rest
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: of the guests and finally get to the mean, the
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: rest of the co host and finally get to the
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: guests themselves, And let me start off with Kaiva. What
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: is going on? Kaiva? How are you? Thank you so
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: much for making this episode.
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, thanks for having me on. It's nice to
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: meet you, David. Everybody can find me at eleven Kaiva
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: Rose thirty three dot com. I offer traditional astrology readings
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: and tarot readings, and I also post daily and weekly
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: astrology videos on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you very much for making it and
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: jam my man, what is going on?
• 3:46
  Speaker 6: Jen?
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: What is up, mister thirty three ninety three cardon Electric Head,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Thanks boss for having me on, and thank you David
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: and of course Erros, my co host at the Gray Lodge,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: which we are doing a speculative anthropology magic series on
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Southeast Asia. So last night we did our first Indonesian episode,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: which is kind of my specialty in a way. But yeah, so,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and the last episode of Threshold Saints was actually with
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: kaivro Rose, not the last episode, but the last episode
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: that I released was with Kivi Roso Xenographic Cartographies. So
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: people can check that out on either YouTube or substack.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So it's YouTube dot com slash Threshold Saints. You can
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: find all the Gray Lodge and all Threshold Saints, Speculative
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: colle Chakra, speculative Nazissism, and speculative Kball. So thank you guys,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: so much appreciated.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: No, thank you, sir, and uh, you know that many
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: people may know this, but I would be saying the
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: Indonesian stuff, right, did you covered?
• 4:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: So very well, very well educated in that, and I
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: don't think too many people know that. So I'm just
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: throwing that out there.
• 4:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, oh yeah, no, I really appreciate that.
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: Ya.
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  Speaker 2: It was my specialty in university and it's also my
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: like ethnic background, so it makes sense.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, Like even some of the other voodoo stuff
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: that you got into on the show. Was very surprised,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: Like Jen knows a lot of stuff besides what he
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: normally talks about. So just saying throwing.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: It out there for thank you appreciate it in front
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: of David.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: No, not even that. It's just you know, for all
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: the topics besides the usual ship we get asked for.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, just keeping it real, Uh,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: thank you, I appreciate it. Jin and uh Brandon, my man,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: what is going on?
• 5:22
  Speaker 7: Sir? How Will?
• 5:25
  Speaker 8: What is up? Everybody?
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: It's so wonderful to be here, so wonderful to meet you, David.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: This is going to be spectacular. Everyone knows where they
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: can find me Megas in the media where we break
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: down myth, magic and meaning, philosophy and the strange and
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: chaotic science fiction dystopic world we live in and just
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: realize that we all are awakening sovereign magicians in this world,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: and so just go over to all the things me
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: and Kaiva the Lovely Rose up there do an every
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Monday evening show and we're just trying to try to
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: make sense of this fantastic world.
• 6:01
  Speaker 8: I know, I've been talking about a lot coming out.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: With Lon Milo's interview Monday morning, it will finally drop.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: I talked to the fantastic Mark Booth and I'm so
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: excited for that episode to drop, as well, tons of episodes,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: tons of stuff to come out, because as we swirl
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: down this ocean of chaos, we can rise to the heavens.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: So thank you Nick, as always everyone on here, I
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: love you all.
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: Let's get to it.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: No, thank you very much. And for my listeners that
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: may not know, I definitely suggest to go check out
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: the show that they've been doing. I was on it
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: one week and I had a blast, and it's really
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: good stuff, really good stuff. So I highly suggest check
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: it out. That new stuff they've been doing together. It's good.
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: We making it.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Of course, Jewles, my man, what is going on? Jewels?
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: How will you?
• 6:42
  Speaker 9: I'm gonna sound pretty dull coming out after Brandon.
• 6:46
  Speaker 10: Guys, everybody, I'm Jewles, host of Gray pild Nick, thanks
• 6:50
  Speaker 10: for having me back on. It's been a minute, Kaiva,
• 6:52
  Speaker 10: Jin Brandon Ro, It's good to see you guys. David,
• 6:55
  Speaker 10: it's nice to meet you as well.
• 6:56
  Speaker 9: Can't wait to hear you have to talk about you
• 6:58
  Speaker 9: got to say very interesting in this topic. Today.
• 7:02
  Speaker 10: You can find me over on Twitter now at gray
• 7:06
  Speaker 10: Pilled with three d's because my old account got hacked.
• 7:09
  Speaker 9: Go over to the Patreon.
• 7:10
  Speaker 10: We got Gods of the Morning wood a cult cinema,
• 7:13
  Speaker 10: and I got some deep dives coming up, some stuff
• 7:15
  Speaker 10: on Augury, some stuff on Blots and the Bogs, and
• 7:18
  Speaker 10: lots of cool things going on over on our channel
• 7:21
  Speaker 10: where we like to fear nothing in question everything quite
• 7:25
  Speaker 10: literally to our detriment sometimes.
• 7:28
  Speaker 9: So again, Nick, thanks for having me on, and it's.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: Good to see everybody, of course, thank you, thank you,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: and finally Erros, last but not least, what's going on.
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: Hello, Thanks David for coming on again. It's really nice
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: to see you again. I think we were all very excited,
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: so the last one was really good, really excited for
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: this one, so thanks for having me on. Nick. I
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: have a YouTube channel arrows Up where I post a
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: lot of meta discussions around like the Western tradition, neoplatonism,
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: young astrology, stuff like that, and then I also have
• 8:13
  Speaker 6: a substack now, so it's just like substack slash arrows
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: up and yeah, that's all I have to plug.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Well, very nice, nice congrats on the substack. I just
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: thought it one myself too. I'll have to go find you.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Very good. Finally, David, please let everybody know where they
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: can find any of your work. Please promote any book
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: that you would like to promote, anything that you're working on.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: You want to mention, let everybody know what's up with you.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I mean I suppose my website tranking dot
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Com is an easy place to find material that I'm
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: not that great at keeping updated. At the moment, I've
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: just finished a book which is going to be going
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: to the publishers in the next few weeks. Recently my
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: focus was on practical works of the last two books,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Clavis Intelgenta and Claver Spiritum, were you know, my sort
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: of templates of Grimwell conjuration and everything you need to
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: know and to practice so that you could go from
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: never having worked with the grim Walls to doing complete conjuration.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Prior to that, it was the two volumes of the
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: grim One's Cyclopedia, which was three years of intense research
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and crazy. I seem to be alternating. I did like
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the research with grim One's cyclopedia. Then there's two practical
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: books with the Clavis. Now I've got another research book
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: coming out, and I'm back writing another practical Grimwire book,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: which I had started writing but put on hold to
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: write the research one case I got prodded to put
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the material out. So yeah, I'm sort of alternating between
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: books of research and books of practice and actually doing
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the conjurations the stuff. At the moment, that's a balance
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I'm quite happy with if I mean, I've got the
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: next couple that I want to get. After the next
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: practical one, I want to return to grimmorin'cyclopedia volumes free
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: and forward. I've also started putting stuff together for and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: then after that it would be the third club Is
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: book in the trilogy, which had been another practical one.
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  Speaker 1: So I seem to have gone into this phase of
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: alternating between my two main hats of research and practice,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of where I'm at at the moment.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: Oh that helps, I mean, I get there. You kind
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: of want to get the practice in there besides just
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: the theory, my opinion. Something I want to ask just
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: for listeners and then kind of just a question just interested,
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: you know, why you got into this. What is a
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: grim word to you? And then I guess what was
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: it that in the magical community you thought you needed
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  Speaker 4: to start bringing more now about these grimors to it.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: To me, the grim wis there's three main threads that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: run through the grim wa was generally which is conjuration
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  Speaker 1: of spiritual creatures, the divination. You know, there's when I
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: create put all the maturity together. For the grim or cyclopedia,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: there was like thirty six different types of divination recorded
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  Speaker 1: through the grim wars and simple charms. This is the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: stuff that you don't need to do lots of big
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  Speaker 1: work for for easing the frictions of daily life, let's say.
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  Speaker 1: And those you find different amounts of those three threads
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  Speaker 1: in different grimwires. Some might be focused almost entirely on
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: one like conjuration. Others have a bit more the divination
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: or more of the simple charms and stuff. But they're
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: generally typified by the things you were saying in this production,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the they usually have the magic circles that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: are associated with it, the consecrations, the conjurations, the prayers,
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  Speaker 1: the purification and preparation. I mean, I think one thing
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  Speaker 1: that really needs to be stressed is that most of
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  Speaker 1: the grim was are not complete manuals. They are they
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  Speaker 1: were like people's personal working books. They weren't being produced
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  Speaker 1: to be published at a later date, particularly not through
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: until you get to you know, after the printing press,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and then stuff certainly like we've get, for example, the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: French black magic books, they were sort of hashed together
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to be put out there to be sold, so you
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: get the grim War of Poperinorius in sixteen seventy. Then
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: later things like the Black Dragon and stuff, they're largely
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: just rehashing chunks out of it and being put together
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to be sold. Because they were sold dirt cheap, you know,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: the Bibotech Blur, the Blue Lively because they were wrapped
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: in this blue rice paper, and because of printing them
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: being more commonly availble, they are being sold at fair
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and all over the place, so they were available very cheaply,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and they became much more accessible to the masses. But
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that's much later in the Grimware tradition, where it's sort
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of like the more what stands like the black you know,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the French black magic stuff, where it's very much demonic,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: whereas the earliest stuff a lot more angel focused. But
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: really there's what makes a grimoire a grimoire is that
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  Speaker 1: it was being used for conjuration. I would say, at
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  Speaker 1: the end of the day, that is the strongest key element.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: There's something that Galsofa brought up recently in an essay
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: he wrote, which I talked about sort of twenty years ago,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: which I think is also important to think look at
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: with the Grimware tradition, which is the importance of the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Key of Solomon. It caused in an auxiliary manual, which
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I think is a great term, which I'd thought of
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: that twenty years ago. I already said it was like
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the one that people had, and it was assumed that
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a Grimmare magician would have had or seen the Key
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: of Solomon and had access to it. So a lot
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: of the grim Wars they're very piecemeal. They were writing
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: down the things they needed, you know, the spirit registry,
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  Speaker 1: the circles, the conjurations. The reason why a lot of
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the grim Wares don't have, for example, some of the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: tools and stuff in is not because you didn't use
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the tools. It's because it was assumed you would know
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: about them from having a copy of the Key of Solomon.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: That's why there's over two hundred manuscripts of the Key
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of Solomon that have survived, whereas all the other grimwies
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the most usually between one to six copies you know,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that have survived, just to show the difference in scale.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: And I think that's because the Key of Solomon was
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the one that was assumed you had or had access to,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: that gave you a lot of the thing, the purifications,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the consecrations and stuff. That's why they're not recorded in
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of them. And there are actually a couple
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: of grimwires where it says such and such as per
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the key, it's actually saying you know exactly that. So
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the Key of Solomon is kind of like the backbone
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: in some senses of a lot of the grimwire tradition.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I'll pause at that point because I was
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: just ranked.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: On that was good. One thing I did want to mention.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: There's a couple of things that you you said that
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: I wanted to say something on. I'm trying to remember
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: all of them. I think manuscripts, uh, you know, for
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: people listening, people may not realize or know that like
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: those were like in my opinion why I think grim
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: Wars might have been more mass produced. His manuscripts are handwritten,
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: so yeah, there was only so many of those being made,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. Once they started the printing,
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: like you said, then they could start being mass produced.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: So that is like the difference between a grimore and
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: a manuscript. I don't know if some people know that
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: or whatever.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like some of the early ones that
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: are only available in grumois form then do get printed
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and made more widely avaiable. I mean that Heptameron is
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: an example. You know, that's one of the most influential
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: ones as well. And initially that's knocking around is in
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it earlier forms the elucidation of necromancy, and then it
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: comes to heptap evolves into the Heptameron, and then it
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: gets printed, and then you see its influenced in so
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: many later books because people were just techniquing bits wholesale
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: from it, that consecration, that bit of those circles, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: so you see it's influenced hugely through the later sort
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: of printed texts as well.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Did anybody have any questions before I keep doing I
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: have a quick it's sort of a riff on what
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: you were saying, Nick, and it's a repeat for David
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: from the first time that he came. But I think
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: it's worth explicating on or listening to him explicating on it,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the relationship between Christian monasticism and the early and also
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: make say middle point middle chronology of the production of
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Grimoire's David. Can you speak on this because it seems
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: to be a very contentious issue in the broader occult community, this,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: you know, Christian legacy of mat.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If we go to Spain and the court of
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Alfonso the Wise, Alfonso tenth in the twelfth century, he
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: decided that he wanted Catalonian to become the language of academia,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and so he collected together scholars translators. So he had Jewish,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Arabic and Christian scholars translating texts and making them available
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: in Catalan and then into Latin. That's, for example, how
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the Pickatricks gets translated from Arabic into Catalan and Latin.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: The first alchemy texts that come into medieval Europe are
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: through his courts, translated from Arabic texts like Liberazio. So
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: he was really influentially. He was very interested in the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: subject as royal to you in aristocracy are seen to
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: be throughout the Middle Ages and Naissance. But aside from
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: him bringing the stuff in, it is largely through the
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: literate monastic community that we see the reproduction of things
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: like the Ours Notoria and various other texts. It's quite
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: amusing that there is this inquisition record from Venice from
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the I think it's the seventeenth century, and it's something
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: like six hundred and sixty odd pages, and it's all
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: records of the inquisitions of monks court using the key
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: of Solomon. So they were literate, they so they preserved it.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So it's very much a Christian aspect of magic, and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: then it sort of spreads very much into the aristocracy
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and the ability the royal families. But it's not because
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: it's not the Christianity of the Church. And that's I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: think where it starts to end up going underground with
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the monks and other people. So, you know, Triphemus is
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: a great example. He collects this amazing library and he
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: writes these books all the while being an abbot, and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: he's like, of course, you know, this is deceptions to
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: the devil, and this is evil stuff. But we have
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: to have it to know what we're fighting kind of thing.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So and then you know, he teaches a gripper and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: also you know Paracelsus, so he's incredibly influential, and a
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: gripper teaches waya who then just see them and I
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: can devoide him, and so you get these whole threads
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of development. But yeah, it's not the Christianity of the
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: church and the priest, and it's a much more sense
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: heretical Christianity. It's where the focus is on the cosmology
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: of the Trinity and of spirits, of working with them.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: That the belief was that man had the authority from
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: God to command spirits and therefore it was something that
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: was fine for them to do. But that did not
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: necessarily agree with what the church, you know, the main
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: church line was. But there was arguments some of the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: grim must have, like the rationales for why it's fine
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: because the Bible says it's fine and this is where
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: because Jesus points it out here, or stuff like this.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting that it is the cosmology, but it's not.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: It's not church cosmology. It's cosmology of a Christian worldview
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: of spirits, which is very different to you know, what
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: you would get worshiping in a church, and I think
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that is an important distinction to make. But yes, certainly
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: it's through the you know, the monastic copying of manuscripts
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and things that a lot of the material was preserved.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: And then obviously as literacy starts to increase further down
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the line and the power of the church starts to
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: be eroded a bit, it becomes it's interesting that that
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: sort of coincides with how the Grimoires tend to get
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: simplified and made easier to use.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have a quick follow up to that one.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Sorry about that, guys. Okay, so this will be kind
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: of sound like a newbie question for you, David, but
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I want to hear your answer, and I think everyone
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: will be interested in what you have to say about it.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: How important do you think both Christian and Hebrew coubbola
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: is to the Grimoire tradition as it arose in Europe?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And there I know there are different entry points for
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: that in the church, something Nick and I have often discussed,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: like there are different sort of where they're obviously playing
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: with saffaratic ideas, including the luminous mysteries. That's kind of
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: something I've been thinking about a lot lately. But anyways,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I want to hear what you have to say, just
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a broadly on the nature of Kabbala and even in
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: regards to the Pia Trix and like how the suffery
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: etcera proposed as a kind of cabalistic astrology and how
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: that relates to ceremonial magic as sort of a foundational idea.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Well, Kabbala is kind of one of my big threads alongside,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you know, Grimwal's. I've been sort of studying perhaps in
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Kabbala since I was fourteen, so it's always been there,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you know, written quite a few books on the subject. So
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: there is Kabala in the grim Wars. I mean, some
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: people say there's no cabalistic stuff. There are some which
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: are very heavily influenced by Kabbala. The most of them
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: are not, but there is a commonality in terminology of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: you will find kabalistic divine names for example, you know,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: spread throughout the grim Wars. So there is definitely an influence.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: And because of that neoplatonic influence that went into the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Grimis and the neoplatonic influence, it's also in Kabbala. There's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: already kind of like a shared route there, which made
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: it easier, I think for a lot of a transposition
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: of ideas between the two. I mean, Sefaietesra. I think
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: it's wonderful. It's an amazing text. That's why I wrote
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: my book Safaetza Magic, because there's so much implicit in
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: so few words in that book. You know, it's an
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: incredible masterpiece the Sefira. And as you say, I mean
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it implies so much, which then people have built on.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I've created techniques and practices just from like
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: a line or two lines of it because it's so
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: much as implied in what is there in sefa Era?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: So that's has that answered enough?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Or I just want to say that I did ask
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: the question specifically, or I mentioned Safrietra because I knew
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: he had written a book on it.
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: But it's also one of my favorites.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: And I find I may and I may not be
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: players cable as professionally as you, David, but I consider
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: myself pretty good as well.
• 24:02
  Speaker 7: So I really appreciate that answer, Thank you so much.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: One thing I did want to ask, because you you
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: mentioned it before, mentioned truth of me is from saying
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: his name correctly. If I remember correctly, he was like
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: really huge into Cipher's I think correct.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did technographia. Steven Skinner and Daniel Clark recently
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: did a really nice edition of like the complete text
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of that together for the first time in English in
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Golden Order. But as he was very much that he
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: didn't have a text called polygraphia, and that's where I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: think we first see Foban script, for example, which then
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: becomes really popular in wicker and paganism. That turns up
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I think first in polygraphia, if I remember correctly. So, yeah,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: that was a big thing. The idea that you could
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like a spirit phone or internet for
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the time. That the idea that you would be able
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: to do this thing and then that the personal end
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: would be able to decipher it. The spirit would take
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: the message to them and they would be able to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: decipher it, so you could have almost instantaneous communication over
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: vast distances, which was you know, the underlying idea of stekenographia.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Some wild stuff. Do you think that Grandmoor's might be ciphered.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Generally? I would say they're not. There were people recording
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: their own stuff. You do get the exception, there's this
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: one that I put out with Steven Skinner, Clavis and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Fernie Keys of Hell, which I found the manuscript in
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the Welcome Library in London back in the early noughties.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: That was when they had like build card files and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I thought that looks interesting. I pulled it up, got
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: them to being the manuscript up. It was like this
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: little book, like this big Nobody had looked at it
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: for over fifty years, and I looked at it and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: then it was beautiful, these incredible, beautiful images. It's that
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: is cipher because it's all it's various different magical alphabets,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: the Latin. It's mainly Latin the text, but the Latin
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of the words contracted and reversed or contracted
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and reversed, and then with things thrown different things magicalp
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: it's thrown in the place of words. And yeah, that
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: was originally we were going to make that the second
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: book and the source of the Samony Magic series, but
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: it took along. It took us about three years to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: fully decipher it, and we were probably worked. Got a
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: couple of other books out in the meantime, and even
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: then you know, it had help from a couple of
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: friends who were able to help with odd bits like
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Peterson helped with there was one thing I couldn't find
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: and I sent it and he was able to point
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: me out they said, oh it was from this, which
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: was a great help. And then a couple of other
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: friends who were professors who like Peter Foreshaw who teaches
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: them in Occult Studies at Amsterdam. Yeah, that's one of
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the things I love about the Grinwack communities, has a
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: very great sense of support and communication amongst the sort
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: of people who are doing the research. So yeah, that
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: one was entirely ciphered and was a pain in the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: art to sing expect for years to decipher evolving and
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: it's not a very long manuscript either, but it was
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: worth the imagery and stuff, and it's beautiful and it's
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: got them these lovely images of the for demon kings,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: of the directions of them, their animals and their seals,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: and you don't see the seals like that anywhere else
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: in ingrim was. There's some very sloppy ones in one
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of the teamh century Italian manuscripts, but they're not nearly
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: as nice or clean and they look different. So these
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: ones have become quite popular. You'll see them all over now,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: all over the internet in grimworld groups anyway. You see
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: people having the schedules of the four Kings. It's the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: ones from Clavers and Fernie.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Nice. Did anybody have any questions? In real quick David?
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: I hate to ask you this. I think if you
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: can maybe just like move the wire on your headset,
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: I think we're getting feedback from you. Yeah. I didn't
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: seem to make a difference. That's all right, it's not
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: too bad. That's all I can.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Does it make a difference if I take them off?
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Actually it sounds about oh yeah, there's listen. Yeah,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: there's not that buzzing anymore. Awesome, Thank you so much.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Did anybody have any questions for him? Before? I keep going?
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: And you know, I'm sure somebody has something they want
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: to ask.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess I just have a question. When you
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: work with the grim wires, do you work with them
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: after you've kind of already initiated your own connection to
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: the spirits or the stars or whatever it is, and
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: then find the symbols connecting to the ones that you've
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: already kind of like intuitively interpreted just kind of curious.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: These days, I only tend to work with I mainly
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: work with the spirits that I've pacted with, so I
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: don't need to go off and do the others, which
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: also great because it means I don't need to do
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: like a week's preparation and purification, I think, because I've
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: already got the relationship in place, so I will just
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: do it on the day. And with some of them,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I don't even need to do conjuration. You know, if
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: you get what I would call like there's like a
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: sort of spectrum that you know, when you have a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: pact from a spirit on like at the top end
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: of the spectrum, it's literally you can just say out
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: loud the question you want to ask, and the spirit
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: will tell you. So you've got one of those that's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that's brilliant, And I have that with a couple of mine.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: But in the past it's been ones who I've felt
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: had qualities that were what I was looking for that
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: would be able to help assist me with you know,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the situation. You know, I worked a lot with the
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: planetary intelligences, for example, because of from their reputation for
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: being like friendly and easy to access. I found them
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: to be very effective, very good at actually getting results.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: And so it's I have worked with spirits when I've
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: had them turn up in my dreams and tell me
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: they want them to work with me. You know, when
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: we're in our dream state, that's a really easy time
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: for spirits to communicate with us. And I often, I
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: quite forten get woken up by them, particularly if I'm
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: working on a book, I get woken up in the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: middle of the night by going you need to do this,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: or you need to add this in, or you need
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: to change this, and so, yeah, from the dreaming point
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of view, definitely, that's a time where I've had them
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: contact me. You know, it's like us, humans don't keep
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: planetary hours. You know, they'll just turn up whenever they want,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the spirits too, to tell us stuff. So usually it's
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: even so it's usually even me thinking that's one I
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: want to work with because there's qualities or things I'm
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: looking for, or them turning up and saying, do this
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: with us because it would beneficial all round.
• 31:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah, thank you.
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: I was mainly asking because like the fixed stars, like oftentimes,
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: like I have worked with the stars and they like
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: grab your attention, and then when you really start to
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: like connect with that star, you see the sigils and
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: the symbols. And then I find that with a couple
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: of stars I worked with, like it's very similar to
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: the ones I find in books, the symbols and the sigils,
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: but they're different ever so slightly, but like the essence
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: of the thing is similar. So I was just wondering
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: if that's something that you have found working with the
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: stars or anything like that.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: One thing I have found which kind of ties in
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: what you're saying about the similarity site similar not quite
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the same, is that spirits often give you then a
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: private name or a slightly different version of their seal,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: which you say, use this to contact me, And it's
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: kind of like having someone's private phone number. You know
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that you get easier, quicker access to them. So what
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: you're saying there with like the seals that are getting
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: slightly different, to me, that sounds like that thing where
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: they've gone, Yeah, that works, but if you just refine
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: it like this, it will work even better for you.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And that's, you know, a point I I like to
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: make when I can, because you know, what is there
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: in the groom is with any like with any other magic,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and the stuff in the grim was it's one person,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: usually one person's experience, so there can be mistakes in it,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: and particularly of all the copying areas and other things
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: that creep in. I mean, I've looked at a couple
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of grimas and it's really obvious the person did not
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: know Hebrew at all and transliterated stuff really badly, you know,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, no, that should be that shouldn't
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: be a shin, that should be a samak, And you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: they thought that was all the way around from English
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: to from Hebrew to English, and what should have been
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a rest they've translated as a dialect because they look
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: quite similar in shape and things like this, and yeah,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: it's definitely but it is definitely a thing to remember
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: that spirits when you have engaged with them. And it's
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: one of the questions I always tell people first time
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: you do a conjuration of a spirit, one of the
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: questions you should always ask before you give the license
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: to depart is are there ways I can make for
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: future communication with you easier? There is there a specific
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: time you like, you know, is there a different resin
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: or oil to burn that you would prefer, you know,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: just things that will make the process go easier for
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: next time and make the whole process flow more smoothly,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: because once you've had that initial engagement with them, it's
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: generally much easier, you know, to repeat conjurations in the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: future with that spirit, whether you packed or not. I mean,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you know, and there are benefits to pacting the benefit,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: you know, But I don't recom people around pacting with
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: spirits all the time, or having lots of pacts, because
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: any pact requires effort from both sides, and so I
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: don't think it's a good idea to have lots of pacts.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, an awful lot of what you will get
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: from them is not in the books as well. That's
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: really important to stress. You know. It's information that they
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: give directly to you that isn't recorded in those grimirs.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that it's not right, because like
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I say, it's like the forms. Take for example, the Asha.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: You have all these images of the different spirits. It
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: appears as an old man on a horse, we're bearing
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: a sword with a crown. That's how the person who
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: did the contry first conjuration saw it. So that was
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: like his gateway image for that spirit. But it doesn't
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: mean it will turn up in that form. It's a spirit.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: It can assume different forms. It might turn up in
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: a different form when you conjure it. The key thing
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: is that when you do a conjuration and spirit turns up,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: that you test it to make sure it is the
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: spirit that you called.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: That's a great that was a great question, Kaiva, because
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: obviously in Buddhism we would say that's existence appearance, the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: spirit arising in different forms like a dikini dancing. You
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: could also describe it as you know, they can ride
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: a vahana, ride a mount, or ride as as David.
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: Was saying, like king riding the horse.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I always think of the Queen of Winter because there
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: is a Tibetan and Mongolian goddess who also is called
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: the Queen of Winter and also rides a camel. So
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, it's really interesting to see and
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: how they codify all of the different sort of iconographic
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: symbols and semiotics within images as David.
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: I think that's a great word.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: David, like the gateway image like a threshold image that
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: you can then use to access the outer gate. And
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: then once you sort of reach that place of nondorgnosis,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: if you will, yeah, you maybe get a higher knowledge
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: for sure. That meeting between as Kaivo was saying like
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: then a textual sort of wisdom and then also the
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: experiential wisdom, like bringing both of those things together.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I think that's at another really important point there as well,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: which is when you do see the spirit in the
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: crystal or the mirror, to pay attention to the environment
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: it appears in as well, because they'll often be symbols
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: and aspects of it coded into that.
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I had a friend who did a conjuration and was
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: as conjuration of money, and the spirit appeared behind a
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: desk with like gold coins on it. Whereas you know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: a different spirit for something else might turn up and
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: it's it's like in an orchard with apples, and so
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: looking at the environment that the spirit is in as
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: well as what it's wearing, what it's carrying, et cetera.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: All those are can be key points and should be recorded.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like as you I have my things
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: say to people if you're working solo country, which most
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: people do. You know, it's learning to write on paper
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: that you've got on your knee while still looking into
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the crystal and keeping engagement going, and you learn to
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: write about looking at what you're writing. But as soon
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: as you see the spirit, write the description. Write the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: description of the environment, so you don't miss it for
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: later or forget afterwards, and record everything. You know, have
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: your questions prewritten, but have the answers that it gives you,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: you know, write them down as you're going, because yeah,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: it can be stuff that you pick up afterwards that
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: tell you more about the spirit and about the engagement
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: One thing I wanted to ask, if nobody has anything else?
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: I did want to kind of get into a little
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: bit for the listeners, a little bit of like what
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: does this is going to look like once you're already
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: in set up and you have everything that you should
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: supposedly supposed to he have to do these things? Can
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: you kind of give people an idea of like what
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: your working space and how the practitioner is going to
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: look when they go to approcess.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the first thing is going to be where
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: your indoors are outdoors? I would say more people probably
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: do it indoors than outdoors. So let's go with that,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: because it's simply because we don't have to get to
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the whole. You know, if you work outdoors, you need
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: to find a suitable space where you're not going to
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: be disturbed. You also need to then develop a relationship
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: with the spirits of the place and make sure they're
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: going to be happy with you doing conjuration in their space.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Would say, that's a whole other type of keet fish.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: So we'll just look at indoors. If you're working solo,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily have to be a full nine foot
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: radious circle diameter circle. You know, originally the key of
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: someone says nine foot radius, which then got for example,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: take my Joe Gardener's nine foot diameter and toward this
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: circling wicker is nine foot but nine foot diameter circle
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: does not holding many people of their company. Obviously nine
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: foot radius work. But that's like an aside, so you
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: get it can be a nine eleventh. It depends at
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: these Preferably, i'd say at least seven foot circle, because
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: you're going to have the bars, the sort of bands
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: which might have texts and pentagrams and you know, symbols
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and stuff in so you need enough Spaceically you to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: be sitting comfortably in the middle and to stand and
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: sort of slightly walk around so you can have the
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: magic circle on the floor. I personally am a great
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: fan of making the magic circle on lino that can
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: be rolled up or cut into four pieces which we
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: then tie together, because you can then transport that for
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: outdoor work as well. You're going to have your either
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: triangle or circle of manifestation that you would then if
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: it was me, there would be like it's a little
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: stool on which rests the seal of the spirit that's
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: been called with the crystal ball on top of it.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: And then on the outside of the triangle or circle,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: you will have three candles set so that one is
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: behind the crystal or mirror and two at the sides.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Whether it's a circle or if it's a triangle, there
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: at the corners. If it's a circle, there still in
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that same planet triangle form. I say circle or triangle,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: because you normally would use a triangle for the spirit
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: locus if it's infernals, if you're working with demons, and
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: we can also use it for intelligences, but for the
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: other celestials, angels, archangels, Olympic spirits. They prefer you use
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: a circle to put your crystal in or your mirror.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Having that little stool or stand for it means that
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: the crystal is at an answer that when you're sitting
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: down on the floor, it's it's close to eye level,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: so it's easier to engage to look into the cystol.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: And how engage at eye level I've found over the
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: years it's much more comfortable than having it on the
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: floor and having a neck bent looking down. So you
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: will have that, you will have the circle, And I
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: mean one thing with most grimware stuff is you don't
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: have an altar. That's a difference that a lot of
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: people don't seem to realize. Some do have a table
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: of practice, but the majority of them there's no alter
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: or table of practice. You know, the stuff at the
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: stairs you were carried and then put down, capturing blight
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: for the sword, for example, be in a scabbard at
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: your side, or why you actually use a frog, you know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: which is like the sort of class that you put
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: on your belt that you can just put the sword through.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: The So the circle itself, it's not going to have
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: that much in it. It's going to have befour candlesticks
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: at the four cardinal points. Again, hi, if because you
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: want the candles to be quite half half the ground
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: they stand out, then they're less likely to be knocked
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: over by you going around. You're going to have your book.
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: Your.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Own personal good world, the conjurations and stuff in that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you use, and if you have things like sensor or
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: oil burner, I personally use an oil burner and use
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: oils with blessed water for the fragrance rather than incense
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: or resin, because a they don't make smokes, they don't
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: have to worry about smoke detectors b incenses unless the
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: pure resin always end up someone like a bonfire after
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: a while, and you want the nice fragrance because spirits
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: like nice sweet fragrances. You and a lot of the
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: ones in the grim walls have like animal parts like
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: blood and brains and bones and stuff and bits of
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: mineral and stuff which not only smell foul but couldn't
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: be a bit toxic to the health, so not within
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: an enclosed space, so you can use pure resume. But
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: even pure resins when they get to the end of
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the burn, tend to be not so pleasant. Whereas if
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: you use an oil burner you will get an even
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: release of fragrance over the whole period about needing to
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: refill it. So from that perspective, much prefer it. And
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it's not the smoke that attracts the spirits, it's the fragrance.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: That's another misconception, this whole idea of like the smoke,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: what the spirits want, they don't give a damn about.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: It's the fragrance that attract them. And we see that
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: recorded all the way back in ancient Suma. So you've
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: got the space, possibly a cushion to sit on nobody's motion,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: or even a chair. You can have a little chair,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: depending if the space is big enough in the room.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: As long as it's consecrated. Now everything that goes into
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: that space is consecrated, there'll be you wearing a white
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: linen robe. I'm not huge on jewelry. I mean some
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: rituals you might have a crown for or on a belt,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: others not. It depends on which grim while you're working,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: you depending on what it's night or day, you're gonna
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: have your curtain shut anyway, so you might have extra
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: candles for light. Somebody came up with an idea of
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: recent traffl It was genius for outdoor work, which is
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: too They mentioned to me just to get one of
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: those little headlights the bands eat be around the head
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: of the light on so that you can read in
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the dark if you're out in the middle of the
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: wood somewhere on a dark night. And I thought, that's
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: such a good idea. You can make one of those
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: and like symbols on the band and stuff and have
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: it consecrated. So yeah, so that's the main things you're
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: going to have there. You'd also have you know, holy oil,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: holy water for eskirging the circle, and a couple other
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: bits and pieces, and that's how your space is going
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: to look. It's not as much paraphernalia as people think.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: You think there's so much paraphernalia, but there's not actually
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: that much paraphernalia. The main things really is having the sword,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: which if you don't have the space, you can generally
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: substitute in a black handled knife. You know, if it's
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: you're in a place where waving the sword around is
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: going to be difficult because it's a small room, you
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: can get away over using the black handled knife. In
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: some of the grimwa's the wand is used in its
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: place as well. But so I will say sword stroked knife,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: your row usually white linen, your grim wire, your crystal
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: or mirror, your circle and your circle tangle of manifestation
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: already prepped, and those other little bits like I said,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: like the oilburn and auspgululous, or it might be you're
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: using just like a little herbing with the sprinking the water.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: And you know, I went for all this in the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: two club As books. You always were designed to for
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: people from from no knowledge of gumwas to go all
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: the way through to everything you need to know successful conjuration.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: So it's full of all the handy little things that
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: you learn from experience that you might not think of
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: when you haven't done it before. So this is like,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't like the candles still after you've
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: sprinkled the water, then there's no chance of putting a
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: candle up by spanking it with water. It might seem silly,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: but you know, at the end of the day, I
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: want to be practical. So yeah, it's actually a lot
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: less stuff. The main key thing is really the preparatory
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: period that week beforehand, although I do argue that although
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: they didn't do it back in the day, there's no
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: reason why you can't start building up what I call
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: the magical momentum and the energy towards the conjuration succeeding
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: from the time you decide you're going to do it,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: which might be months before the actual conjuration, there's still
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: things you can do on a daily basis to build
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: up the energy for it so that by the time
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: you get there, instead of you know, start like starting
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the car a week beforehanded with your preparation, you've already
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: got the car rolling at a nice speed, and then
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: that last week of preparation just gets the accelerator up further,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: so you get even greater speeds, so you have far
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: more chance of success with the conjuration.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: That was amazing. Thank you very much for that whole
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: description and scenario and everything that you did. Was there
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: anything anybody wanted to ask?
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: No, Yeah, I actually I have a question, And yeah,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: that was fantastic, and I think all those things are
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: really important. I also want to know how you feel
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: or what you think about the different levels of consciousness
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: as you're going through these rituals.
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: As in you you're talking about the tools and the
• 48:13
  Speaker 8: complete setup of these.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Things, and then how does that integrate, like how do
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: you feel about them, about the mind, the mnemonic working
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: of all the tools, and how they interact with your consciousness,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: and then what you think about where these spirits are at.
• 48:29
  Speaker 8: Like what where they actually coming from? As these are
• 48:32
  Speaker 8: things are going.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: About, Okay they if I can do the second part first,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: because where they come from this is something that people
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: isn't really addressed obviously in the most I think generally
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: very well themselves, because they weren't being written with that
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: in mind. It's just get them to turn up to
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: do your stuff. But in the Calabas books I went
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: into this a lot, which is that the spirits are
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: coming to you on the lower astral. They the lower
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: astraul has exactly the same form as the physical plane
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: is super imposed on it. They're in the same but
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: one removed are you. They're on the lower astral, which
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: is why they can on occasion create effects in the
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: physical world around us when they've turned up, So you know,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: you feel them come. Things, things might get knocked over,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. The whole point of the triangular circle
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: of manifestation, you know, where you put their seal underneath
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: the crystal or the mirror. That equates to what is
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: mentioned back in sepha Harazine, which is like a fifth
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: century Jewish text, the Book of Mysteries, which is arguably
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: the first proto Grimoire I would say Chamine means heaven.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: It's like the first one. So the seat of Chamain
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: is where where you are inviting the spirit to be
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: seated in the seat of Chamain, which is in the
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: crystal in that circle or triangle on the lower astral
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: right next to where you are, you know, on the
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: physical because it's literally a few feet away from you.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: The magic circle on all the consecrated stuff that all
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: shows on the astral. One of the reasons for consecration
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: is it does give it an astral presence likewise as
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: an aside, because it's a handy tip when you consecrate,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: for example, the sword, the sword has an aura around it,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: so when you go around activating the magic circle and
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: tracing the circles and the names, you don't actually need
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the blade to touch them. It can be just held,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: you know, a little bit above it, and the aura
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: of it does the job. You know, you draw it over,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: not actually touching, so then you're also don't risk damaging
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: the liner or fabric if you've got a fabric circle,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: or ripping it with the sword. But that whole sort
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: of collection of consecrated items, of your circle, of your sword,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: of your grimoire, all of the things. The crystal acts
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: also like a sort of lighthouse in a sense of
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: you know, it was the attention of the spirit. And
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: if you then add in the aspect which I kind
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: of have restored having been told to, of calling the
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: wind before you call the spirit for the wind to
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: bring the spirit to the seat of Chamaine, you can
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: then get the spirit to turn up really fast without
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: needing to do lots and lots of recitations of the conjuration,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: because you get the wind to actually go and physic,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: you know, as it were, on the lower astro bring
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: the spirit. So it's the difference between the spirit kind
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: of like making its own way and walking to your
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: or circle or triangle or sending an uber for it.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: It gets there much faster. And so yeah, they're coming
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: on the lower astrol and you are presenting them with
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: like a sort of heavenly seat as it were, to
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: sit on, which corresponds to where your crystal is and
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that then acts as the gateway between you for you
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to engage through, which also then means that you don't
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: have time restrictions because if a spirit comes into our
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: around physically, which doesn't happen very often can happen. They
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: usually can only hang around for an hour or so
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: because it's not their natural environment. It's like a fish
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: out of water. You know, afterward it's going to be
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: unpleasant for them. So with regard to the more mental
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: aspect of it, this brings in a really important thing
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: which wasn't around with the winwar period. But I've been
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: like stressing in the club as books again and in
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: other interviews which in the modern world now more than ever,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: we need to concentrate our mind when we're doing magical
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: work and in that purificatory period of that week beforehand,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: including what I call the electronic fast where no social media,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: you know, no gaming, perhaps only minimal use of things
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: that if you need to emails or stuff because you're
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: in work and stuff like that, you can't get away
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: from it. But those things that distract your energy and
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: take away the concentration should be cut out in the
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: same way that you moderate what you eat in the
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: fasting period, like you know, not having meat and fish
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: and not having alcohol, et cetera. Because you know that
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: fasting period of purification. So again to help focus purify
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: the mind and body is not just have water for
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: a week, you know, that's it's only the last day
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: that you go to only having water. And even on
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the last day. I have modified that and I always
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: teach people as well, have about something like apple juice
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: as well, so your blood sugar doesn't drop too much.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: You want to be with it and functional when you
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: do the conjuration, so on the last day, and also
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: always consult a medical professional if there's any health issues
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: with regard to you know, the fasting and cutting things
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: out of your diet is going to be a problem
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: because the end of the day, it's a living tradition.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: You can adapt things. You don't have to be one
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: hundred percent rigid to I if it comes to your
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: health in the same way, you know you would if
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: you had prescribed medication, you wouldn't stop taking that during
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: your preparatory period, you know, because you don't want to
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: have a negative impact on your health. And if you're
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: working with the spirits, they're going to want to engage
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: with you, but full capacity. So that's one thing. Another
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: thing with the mental aspect of it and the states
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: of consciousness. My own experience and what other people say
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: to me as well is as you start to build
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: through the when you do the prayers first before the conjuration,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: it starts to sort of get you into a bit
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: more of an extent state. And certainly the wind conjuration
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: out is there's this string of ninety five sort of divine,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: barbarous names at the end of it, and they have
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: this incredible power in them that's unlike anything I've seen
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: that by the time we do the end of that,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: it's like it's completely blows you away. You can see
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the power that is in them that enables those winds
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: to bring the spirits to you if you're working solo.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: One thing I do suggest to people is there's a
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: simple practice of visualization that I encourage people to do
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: for helping to develop psychism, because a lot of people go, oh,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I never see spirits. I'm not at all psychical. Everyone
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: can have some level of psychic ability, and doing practicing
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: meditation and visualization on a daily basis helps improve your
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: your psychism. And so from that perspective, just a simple
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: daily thing of ten to fifteen minutes a day of
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: seeing a white circle on a black background. Just doing
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: that every day until you can keep that white circle
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: the same size, not breaking, not changing at all. Because
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: when you can do that, you will realize that you
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: have shut off your internal dialogue, you know, but you
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: went after fifteen minutes if you've set on alarm or something.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I used to do it. When I started, it was
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: for an hour. But in this day and age, telling
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: people to do something like that every day for an hour,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: very few people are going to do it, you know.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: But it really helps the mental muscles, and it also
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: does develop start subtly developing the psychism. It's like a
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: subtle change you don't notice at first, but over time
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: you find you realize that there is a much greater
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: psychic sensory awareness as a result of doing these sort
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: of practices. But that simple white circle, and if you've
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: been doing that as a practice, it's like a really
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: good little trigger thing that when you do the conjuration
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: and you sit down before you engage with the spirit,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: that you just do that again just to you know,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: bring that moment of calm to yourself and say, if
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: it's become like a thing where you shut off the
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: intern a dialogue, you will also then be able to
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: clearly hear the difference between the spirit's voice when it
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: talks to you in your head and your own voice
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: when you talk out loud. So your questions kind of
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: put me on a tangent of various other key things
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: that need to be sort of said about the tradition.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: But I hope that sort of satisfies. Well, yes, you
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: want to you know, I like that.
• 57:41
  Speaker 8: That's great.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: I think that's really important because what it kind of
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: comes it kind of leads me into this idea about
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: doing magic versus being magic. And sometimes I wonder if
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: all of the grimar traditions are trying to actually train
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: you into just being the magic in the world instead
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: of worrying about all the rich, which maybe through time become.
• 58:01
  Speaker 8: A little a little silly.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Not that it's silly, because I think they're really important,
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: and I know how important ritual is, especially in a
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: postmodern era where people have no willpower, discipline, or the
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: ability to shut off the mind.
• 58:15
  Speaker 8: But there's something something too, There's something there.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: It feels like the more you do all that stuff
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: where you kind of want to put it aside and
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: just kind of let the great work open itself up
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: to you, kind of like that embodied experience within the world.
• 58:29
  Speaker 8: But I could be talking nonsense, So I just wonder
• 58:32
  Speaker 8: what you think about that.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, magic ritual is a part of magic. Ritual is
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: not magic, It is not the totality of magic. Magic
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: for me is all about how you engage with everything
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: around you, all of life and the dead and everything,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: and what you give to the world. I suppose from
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: your actions rich So ritual is important. But it's like
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: this thing I was my first influence I suppose before
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: magic was The Nowaday Ying. It's still my all time
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: favorite book. And from that one of the things I
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: got was if you are doing what's right for you,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: the rituals a lot of the time are actually like
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: coarse correction. You know, if you're actually going in the flow,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: you don't need to be doing them. I don't do
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: lots of conjurations. I maybe do one a year now,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: and that's, you know, will be aforey specific thing because
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: now I have one main interest with my conjurations, which
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: is to get the spirits to tell me more about them.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I want to hear about like the spirit side of it.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: And because we know so little about them. And then
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: so if I do conjuration, other purpose of my conjurations
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: is for that. It's not for stuff for me. I
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: want to know more about their side of things. But
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: also if you do have spirits that have like a
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: pact with for example, you don't need to do the
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: conjurations and stuff. You can just say can you don't
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: do this and this, and they go and do it.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: So it's people do get hung up in it. I mean,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: I've you know, when I started doing magic, like forty
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: four years ago, got forty six years ago. Now there
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: I was like two hours every day meditation visualization during rituals,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: you know, probably first seven years every day and then
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: it stopped being quite that much because you know, jobs
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: and life and but still every day practice and even
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: now I still will do a little bit of meditational
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: stuff every day. So I like, I think it's good
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: to have something, you know, even it's just simple meditation
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: every day as part of my daily routine. But it's
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: like I say, most people are not willing to put
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: in that initial work of building the foundations and it's like,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: when you've got the strong foundations, then I think it's
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: the magic. Because of the way you live your life,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: the magic tends to happen around you and because of you,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't need to be lots of ritual and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: stuff all the time, so you become more sensitive to
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: what's going on and you so the course corrections, even
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: the course corrections side of it becomes an automatic thing.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's there's a great description of magic from
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: ancient Egypt where they called magic Hecka. There was like
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: the different names. There's Hecker was magic, Hadsao which was
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: ambuletic magic, and Aku which was the magic of the dead.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: There was three different types of magic, but Hecker is
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: the main one. It's also the name of the god
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: of magic, and it says Rah gave Hecker. I'm magic
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: to man to ward off the arrows of misfortune and
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: practical magic generally is about removing friction from your life
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: so that things go smoothly at the end of the day.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Most magical simple magical charms and practices and spells are
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: to remove friction. They're to ensure that things are going
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: the way you want, that life is going the way
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: you want. And so even back then, you know, like
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: four or five thousand years ago, there was that view
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: of magic that it was there as part of life
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: and how life was lived, but it wasn't this thing
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: that we've got to do rituals all the time. So yeah,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: I think absolutely with what you're saying. I'm totally on
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: board with that.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 8: Nice, thank you. That was that was that was a
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 8: perfect yeah. So I appreciate that.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 7: I have a quick follow up.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: That was really a great entry point, Brandon, but it's
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: obviously my comment question is for David. You mentioned the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: number forty six has been as the length of time
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: you've been practicing magic, and also the Dowdy chain, So
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: I want to know, David, how do you resolve the
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: paradox of numbers? This is a frequent discussion. Obviously. I'm
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: a vagrianas so for me, we always resolve paradox of
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: numbers in the one, in the zero, the ten. But
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: I want to hear what you have to say about that.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: In my early Cabala days, I was a bit number obsessed.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I think most ritual magicians go through a phase where
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: they get a bit obsessed with numbers. All they used to.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe they don't anymore. I don't know. Also, my first
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: degree was in maths and computing, so I always was
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: kind of a bit of a number head. I guess
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: for me, that whole thing that anything divided by zoo
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: row is infinite just removes the paradox of numbers. We
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: can just everything can be equated and seen as part
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: of the same, you know, even with the different numbers.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, be flexible, to be fluid, don't be
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: fixed on the numbers, although it is very tempting at times,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: especially when people, you know, so there's so many people
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: that love the number nine and all of that, like
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: the plateon hasts come for me, David, So thank you
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: so much for saying that.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 7: I appreciate that, like zero, to be flexible.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy how upset easies is to get obsessed with.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: I knew a guy back in the nineteen eighties who
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: lived in Leeds and he got serbsessed by commata and
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: numbers that he wouldn't get on a certain bus because
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: of its number, and that meant and that was the
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: main bus route for the city, so he often had
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: to take two or three buses and several times it's
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: long to get somewhere because he was not willing to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: go on it. And you know, I'm not saying it's
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: a bad thing that they don't have their value with
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: the numbers. I mean, like with Jim March, if you
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: get those flashes of inspiration and stuff and suddenly, oh wow,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: that gives that that great, you know, they do have
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: a value. But I just don't I suppose get wrapped
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: up in them and obsessed with them and go down
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: rabbit holes with them in the same way that I
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: used to, like forty years ago. I prefer to be
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: much more flexible, and I suppose my my world has
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: become much more spirit based over the decades, so spirits
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: don't really tend to like the other ones I've encountered,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: don't really give a damn about numbers.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 6: Just wondering, go ahead, are there any grim wars that
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 6: really stand out to you and why? Because I feel
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 6: like obviously most people know about you know, Solomon's Grim Wars,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 6: but maybe not about any others that would be really
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: good to know about.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: There's a few. One that I really like is the Hygromantia,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: which is kind of like one of the ones that
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: may have influenced the Key of Solomon. The earliest known
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: one is from fourteen forty from Greece, some Greek. There's
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: a number of different manuscripts. It probably goes back a
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: bit earlier, and some of the material looks like it
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: goes back to the time of the Greek magical papriory,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: so it's definitely a carrying on of stuff from antiquity.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: There.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: The thing that is unique about the Hygromantea out of
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: all of the grimois from why I bring it up
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: is that in there you call on the demon of
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: the hour. So there are one hundred and sixty eight
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: hours in the week. There's one hundred and sixty eight demons,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: one for every hour, every day of the week. But
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: before you do that, you call on the Angel of
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: the hour to constrain the demon. And before you do
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: that you call on the classical god or goddess of
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: the day, and then the angel and then the demon.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: So for example, you won't call on Venus on Friday
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: or Luna on Monday. And it's the only grimoire that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: has like the classical gods in there. So from that
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: point of view, for people who struggle with the Christian
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: cosmology of the Grimoires, Hygermntea is a really good entry point.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: I would also say with the Higermounta. One of the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: reasons I'm so into it is because many years ago,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: back in about two thousand and eleven, I think it
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: was as a big hectic gathering, is when I was
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: living on the Welsh borders. So we had a huge garden,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: we were doing things on the Monday night. We've been
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: doing stuff all weekend, and I said, I do conjuration
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: in Hygrammatia. And because it was sort of Luna Sealini
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: for Monday, and I've been working with hectory since the eighties,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: I thought there's enough syncretism that I could call on
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Hecate and then the Angel of the Hour and the
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: Demon of the Hour. And we also had a fire
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: there outside the circle and did the the thing, the
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: prayer to Hecta, did the angel and the demon, and
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: then the demon manifested, actually manifested in the fire and
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: everyone there and there was every like a dozen or
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: so people also like this, the flames forming a humanoid
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: shape in the fire which remained there while it engaged
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: with me. And so it's one of the very few
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: instances where I've actually had a physical manifestation in that
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: fire outside the circle from doing the high gromatic conduration.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: So that's another reason why I mentioned Hygermntea because I'm
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: not saying, hey, worked for higher Mounta, you'll get something
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: that cool. But it was like a Hollywood special effect.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: It was fantastic. It's so sort of moments in magic way.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: Everyone there, most of the people has never seen a conjuration,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: and they were all like, oh my god, what's going on.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: There's a couple of experienced ritual magicians who were just
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: sort of sitting there absolutely loving it. But there was
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: a few people who are quite new to things who've
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: got a bit freaked out by this demon figure in
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: the flames. So the Hygermanta is one that I would
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: say is definitely worth looking at for me personally, I
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: think the Arbor Tell is really important to look at
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: because it's where the Olympic spirits turn up, and the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: Olympic spirits are quite unique amongst all of the spirits.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Most spirits are described as being formed of like a
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: higher form of air or occasionally fire, but the Olympics
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: of all the spirits are the ones. They're made of
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: inclements of earth, fairfire, and water, so they have a
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: balance of four elements in them, seven planetary spirits, one
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: for each the Olympics, so that makes them unique. They're
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: very friendly, they're very courteous, and I've worked with the Olympics.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: I've done more work for the Olympics. And intelligence is
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: overall probably in most other types of spirits. Mother grim
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: was and the Arbtel also is basically a grim ware.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Apart from that bit, the focus is on the ethics
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: and philosophy of what's expected of you as a magician
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: and how you should live a good life, and so
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: that I think is a really important one to read.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I've seen people online talk about the architect say, oh,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Arbatell's great. It's so simple because you don't need the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: sword and you don't need this because it doesn't mention them.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: That goes back to my earlier point. Just because it
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't mention them, it doesn't mean you don't need them.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: It assumed you knew you needed them and you would
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: use them as per Kiff Solomon, per your auxiliary manual.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: So the Arbatel I really strongly recommend to people because
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: one thing I've seen over the years, is that the
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: better life you live outside of the circle, the more
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: respect you get from spirits. When you're inside the circle,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: particularly when you're working with the celestials the angels, they
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: respond they're much more likely to turn up and be
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: willing to do stuff for you if you are a
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: good person, If you for example, you know, maybe you
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: give to charity, or you give some of your time
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: if you don't have the money, you know to helping
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: with good causes. If you are doing things for other people,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: for family or friends rather than for yourself, that is,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: you know, selfless. That's another thing that with the celestials
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: that scores your extra points. So the arbatell is an
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: important one I think to read from that perspective, it
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: really gives you the mindset that goes with what will
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: make a good counturer, so that I would definitely recommend.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot. I I mean, I really
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: like the Keys to the Gateway of Magic, which has
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: all sorts of interesting stuff in there and gives the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: best description I've seen of how to test the spirit
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: for example, and lots of other interesting things as well.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: Stephen Skin and I did that as volume two of
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Source works with the has the Nine Keys, which is
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: conjurations of the archangels. I don't recommend people counder archangels,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: certainly not early in their career. Archangels always do the
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: nine day prep for an archangel. Do not cut it short.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: I when I've been practicing for about twenty years, I thought, okay,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I've done a conjuration of Michael before from the Heptameron.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: I can get away with three prep. So I only
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: did three days pep. He did not turn up. He
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: sent an angel in this place who gave me a
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: right bollocking about how egotistical and disrespectful I was, and
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: don't ever do that again. So yeah, archangels are absolute
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: sticklers for protocol and doing things right. That was an
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: important lesson, you know, reminder, never get too big for
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: your boots. I've never made that mistake again. You can
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: be sure. But you don't actually need the archangels generally.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Like I said, the Olympics and intelligences I found work
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: brilliantly for most of the things that you might want.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Other grim wars I particularly particularly important the Heptameron stroke.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Elucidation of necromancy is an absolute key one. It's got
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that is the backbone of
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the tradition. It's not that big a text, but the
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: consecrations and things like that that are in there are invaluable.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: And others I would I would say those are the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: ones really I'd start with, would be the Heptameron, Stroke Elucidation,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: the Arbor tel are the two I would we alongside
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: the Keith Solomon put as your you know, your sort
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: of base, and then sort of go look beyond there.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, because there's a lot, you know. The Grimma's
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: Cyclopedia had one hundred different books in it, of which
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: ninety were Grimwire, different grimoires. There's a lot in the
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: tradition of Grimware. Some of them there's only one obscure
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: copy somewhere, some a number of different ones. What I
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: would say is, don't jump into if you've not done conduration,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: don't jump into the demonic stuff straight away. Work with
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: intelligences or Olympics for your first conjuration. The Grimora environment's
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: got a lot more popular in recent times. I've never
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: worked it. It just doesn't interest me or appeal to me.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: But Matt Hadfield has a group just running that and
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: he does stuff on substance with that I'd strongly recommend
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. Ask Garisha has a huge rep
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: and people tend to jump in with the Askarisha as well.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: It's one I've actually worked with an awful lot. That's
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: my first magical lodge. We worked a lot with the Asha,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: and I've worked it by myself and with other people
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: over the decades. As Garisha tends to you know, you
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: can get good results with it, but it's quite flawed.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I'm currently producing a corrected one. That's
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: what the book I'm working on now is is how
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: to work ask Garisha more effectively. Basically is my new
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: the latest book home about a third of the way
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: through writing. So if people want to work on a Garisha,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: wait till next year and then you can have a
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: with all the extra added bits that should ensure you
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: have safe success.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: That's interesting.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 7: I have a question.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: Good for it? Please?
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 9: I'm sorry, guys, I haven't been able to speak up.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 9: I feel like I've been in a sauna for the
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 9: last time.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 9: Uh yeah, that Mississippi heat.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 10: So there's a lot of talk online of people like
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 10: writing their own remoires. Would you suggest that or like
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 10: taking an older kind of text and like making it
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 10: nuanced or maybe recording what you are experiencing with whatever
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 10: deity you're connecting.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 9: With and writing your own kind of thing out of that.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 9: What what would you say no? Or is that dangerous?
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: I would say, as with any you know, any sort
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: of magical system, when you have a sort of competence
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: and fluidity with the system, sure, then play around with it.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I don't just like jump in and start messing around
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: my club.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 9: You've study these older texts before you go into any Okay, yeah.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: I mean the carbs, but so written based on you know,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: they are true. They have a fidelity to the tradition
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: of the core elements, but they also have aspects I've
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: added in to make it more effective for people, like
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: the conjuration of the winds, which is there in the
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: very early ones like Semasokra Magic in thirteen forty six,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: but then it drops out of the tradition, which is
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: a shame, because that is one of the key elements
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: for successful conjuration that makes it happen tend to happen
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: much faster. Likewise, it's not in the Grim Wars, but
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: I've added the shakina in because I felt that I've
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: got no sort of prodded and looked, and there are
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of references which could hint at her, not
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: saying that there's any shakina tradition in the Grimas, but
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of her titles and things. And by
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: putting the chiakina in instead of just doing the prayer
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: to God before conjuration, during prayer to the shakina as well,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: that dynamic between the divine feminine and the divine mask
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: and completely alters the flavor of the conjuration, The fluidity
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: of it, the beauty and the elegance of it comes
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: from having the shakuina there. And also critically, as I
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: realized when I was doing it, if you know, like
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I've read a book on shakina, I'm very passionate about
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: the shakina, the idea that we all are united in
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: the shakinas, like that everyone the soul that is in
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: you is a fragment of the shakina, and so if
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: you call on the shakina and you're sort of activating
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: that in yourself, you actually have the divine authority to
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: work with the spirits because you are connecting yourself to
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: the cosmic divine feminine in yourself. You're doing an as
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: above so below with the cosmic Shakina down into you
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: as a fragment of the earthly Shakina. So that's not
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: in the Grim Wars, but that's something I've added, and
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: the spirits I work with, we're very happy about it.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: They totally approved of the Shakina being there. So I'm
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: not saying it can't be a static tradition. And there
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: are elements in the old Grim Wars which I'm not
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: appropriate for now. A class example is a lot of
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: them have this thing of having like a young, like
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: seven year old virgin boy to be your sea. That
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: has so many problems attached to it. I don't even
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: need to mention. You know that is just not that.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: That's gone okay, that's totally in the past. You know,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: that's never to be revisited. That's might have been relevant
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: to then there, but not to us in this day
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: and age. It's just wrong in so many ways. So
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: you know, it's taking the bits that are true to it,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: that are the core of the tradition and being faithful
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: to that. So once you've got the experience, then yeah,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: I say play with it and the template that I created.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: You know, it's based on forty four years of conjuration
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: of having all those core bits and put the stuff
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: that I've found works the best, but stripping away the
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: stuff that doesn't need to be there as well. And
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: I've had lots of people get back to me and
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: people saying I'd never done conjuration before, and I did
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: the conjuration of the intelligence from Gentiarum and it worked,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: And I'm like great. And I've had other people say
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: I tried reform, failed and now it's worked. And other
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: people say, well, I do my own thing, but I
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: took this bit of your stuff in this bit and
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: added it in, and I really like what it does.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: I'm like great, because I'm not saying my way is
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: the only way, my way is the best way. What
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is, this is what I've developed based on
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: all my decades of experiences, is successful for me. Take
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: it for yourself, Take what you want of it, you know,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: use it, discard it, but hopefully you will find some
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: of it of value. You know, That's what the Clover's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: books are there for. If someone's never done it, then
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: I recommend doing the whole thing wholesale. If people who
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: got experience, they're still going to find things like the
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: winds in Clavers Spiritum. You know when that happened. I
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: was told in a dream look at the winds. Just
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: after I'd written Clovers and Tell Centrum. One of my
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: spirits said look, you need to look into the winds.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: And I woke up the next morning and I went
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: and grabs swam the culinorious off the shelf because I
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: thought that's most likely where they I'll find it, and
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: there was stuff in there. Then I messaged Stephen Skinner
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: because this is a couple of years back and before
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: seems so can maguicated come out? And said, Stephen, can
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: you send me what you've got on the winds from Suma?
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: He said, you only sent me it and there I
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: found the conjuration and I thought, I really liked this
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: single try. So I did a conjuration for one of
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: my spirits that I've worked with a lot over the years.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not packed it to it, but I've worked from
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: a lot, so I was able to just get away
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: three days prep and I asked him there was like yeah,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: and he gave me a slight change to it. I
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: thought that was great. He turned up. You did the
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: conjuration of the winds, did the thing? He was there, fabulous.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: So okay, I need other people to test this. So
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: I contacted a dozen also, people I know experienced traditions
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: and leaving any conjurations in the next few months, can
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: you throw this wind conduration before the main conduration see
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: what happens? And they said yes. And then so I've
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: got reports back from people. Every single person was like,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: I did the wind conduration, the spirit came, you know,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: in a couple of instances, the spirit came before I
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: aim did the main conduration. It was there at the
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: end of the wind conjuration. And other ones is that
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: spirit was there by the end of the first conjuration.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: And this was condurations of angels, of demons, of intelligences,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: of Olympic spirits from different grimoirs. I thought, this is great,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: so far, one hundred cent success. Now I also get
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: people messaging me saying I'm going to do with my
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: first conjuration, do you have any advice and things like that.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: So everyone who messaged me like that, I said yes,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: and I gave them the wind conjuration as well, because
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't want just all my results to be from
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: a data set of everyone who had like twenty years
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: plus experience, you know, And I gave it to all
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: these people and they all go back to me saying
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: it worked, the spirit turned up. So so far I've
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: had about forty people who I've passed it on to
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: or who have done it as a result of reading
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: the books in contact, every single one had the spirit
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: turn up by the end of the first conjuration. Because
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: you look in the later particularly the Black Magic grim
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: was and say you may need to do the recitation
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: multiple times. Well, that's because there's no wind conduration to
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: bring it. It's got to make its own put way
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: to you. So bringing the winds in I think made
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: a huge difference, and it is a key component. I've
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: kind of on tangent from a question there haven't. I sorry,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: but I'm really fan the winds because I do think
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: it's a really important thing. And also the shakina being
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: in that and like I say, it's not there, but
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: it's the winds is like a reclaiming of something that
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: was there and dropped out. The shakina is something that's
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: hinted at but isn't really there, but it's it fits,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: you know, And if I'm going to add stuff in,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: I have my criterias like, no, does it work critically yes,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: does it fit yes? Is it relevant yes? And if
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: it fits all those criteria, then I think something can
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: be added in. And Shaquina fits in so well. And
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: I can say the dynamic of having that divine feminine
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: and you having the divine authority because you have a
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: fragment of the shakina in you really makes a difference
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: to the conjuration.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 9: It's not which the shakina is the flame, right, it's
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 9: it's it's it's the feminine flame.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that spark, that flame of the soul in you.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: It's the higher part of the soul is the chic.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 7: I love that you said that, David.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: I I feel like a lot of contemporary like speculative Cabalis,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: like including myself, have moved in this more nondual direction
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: where you must include the feminine divine principle. Obviously, that's
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: easier for me because we always say the paradox of
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: the deity is resolved in yabyam. So for you know,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: if you're a contra brower of honest it's easy that's
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: easy to conceptualize, and you can recognize that through Duchini
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: practices you are liberating the pro a paramita, the you know,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: perfection of wisdom that self arises through your solar plexus.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 7: That's exactly how you visualize it.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: And then the tikini kind of rises up as a resplendent,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: heatless flame and you know, take shape in the splendors
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: of the world. So for me, what you're saying, I
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: agree with a lot. And I think even like David
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: Heims Smith would say, like the I've heard him say,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: the womb is like the expansion in space, like we're
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: infinite in space but contained within the womb, and that
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: is zimzom. So I find that very like profound, and
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's a really important sort of conceptualization, like
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be like like a lot of people,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: especially online, I think, get fixated on deities who are
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: kind of mimetic, like Odin and Wotan, and there's a
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: whole like movement towards it. I'm not like disparaging it
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: at all, but I sometimes feel like it is again
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: an imbalance, like it's imbalanced to me, there's something it's
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: not quite Tifferiz. It gets like there's there's a paradox,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: and I dislike that. So yeah, I think it's profound
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: and interesting what you're saying, and it correlates to a
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: lot of other like contemporary people in magic.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Another thing with the Shaquina as well,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: I'm working with Shaquina. One of apart from being wisdom,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: is the power of prophecy, so working with Shaquina also
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: another thing for helping develop a psychism and making it
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: easier to engage with spirits. And of course she's some
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: other angels, so all the angels come from Shaquina, so
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: you can't go wrong with, you know, bringing her into
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: the practices, which is why it is such a big
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: part of Clava spirit and the Shaquina material.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: I have a quick follow up. This is a really
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: quick one, sorry Nick. What color do you associate with
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: the air or wind, David? Because I know in contra
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: there's this is a question. Sometimes it is green and
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: sometimes it is gray or black, so it's depending on
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: text or contra.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: I generally tend to be I suppose quite classical in
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: that I tend to go with yellow and light blue
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: as my air with colors, Well, that.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: Kind of would make sense in it for green at least,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: like for why the Central asian Ists, the Central Asian
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: sorcerers were sort of maybe seeing that color because it's
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: like the obviously the synthesis between the two, which area
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: is as a composite element.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. You brought me on through another of
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: my pet things. If I can just have a quick
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: grant riscourse, which is that fire in the Western magical
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: traditions so generally has in modern times been sort of
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: moved over to south instead of being in the east.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: They switched LEVI switched air and fire. If you go
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: back to antiquity and all the way through the grim Mars,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: you'll see that the elemental directions are fire in the
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: east where the sun rises, air in the south, swich
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: wi them and then everyone since then it's pretty much
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: kept with those. But if you look at the elemental interactions,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: it should be fire. Even if you switched the whole
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: directional thing, it should go fire, air, water, earth, because
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: they're on the cross of pot, cold, dry, moist of
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: the elemental qualities, and they each share one of their
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: qualities with the element on the other side of them.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: So that each element can change to the elements on
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: either side of it, but not to the opposite element.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: So fire and water can't change into which other. Earth
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: and air can't change into each other. But there's a
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: whole thing on elemental theory which I won't go off
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: on now, But that fire in the South thing really
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: bugs me. I mean I did it for many years
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: as well myself, until I realize, I think, look, noticing
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: more and more in the Grimwalls how fire was in
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: the east, and then going back and seeing it in
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: ancient Greece, and you see it all the way through.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: I say, until lev And I think LEVI, I switched
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: it because of the seasonal attributions. Probably I was doing
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: a class on this a week before last, and I
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: think he did it because of the attributions to the seasons,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: and that's why he flipped fire and air the qualities.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, sorry, it's important to set for people to
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: appreciate that it's not the direction because obviously areas all
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: around us. It's not just in the south, and you know,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: the earth is underneath us and all the rest of it.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: But it's the relationship between their positions. Likewise, if I'm
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: working outdoors and I'm standing next to the sea or
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: a lake and it's in the south. That's where my
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: water is. I'm not going to go I'm going to
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: pull on water in the west when all the water
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: is right next to me in the south. You know,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: you have to be flexible with these things. It's not
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: got to be practical. Symbolic is good, but practical is
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: also be important.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 7: That's actually how we can septualize it.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 5: Sorry, sorry, Kaiva, No, I was just gonna say I
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 5: agree with that even from like your astrological natal chart.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 5: When you're working with like certain stars, I find like
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 5: I prefer to use them how they're in my natal
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 5: chart because I feel like that's how it's written in
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 5: my own personal realities all work.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 7: In the direction that that star was when.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 4: I was born.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 7: Absolutely, I just wanted to say really quick, like I
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 7: agree with you, David.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: It's definitely a point where I it drives me crazy too,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: but it's it's the way Tantra describes it is that
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: the elements can move like the wheel of the earth
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: malcouth can it can shift like what you're saying to
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: like the geo ontological positionality that the magician occupies, Like
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: you see these formulations, especially like in medieval China where
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: they will do these very complicated sort of elemental mandolas
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: on lakes. So like, where are they invoking the water
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: while they're in invoking water from the south, because that's
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: with the ground primary o ground that actually standing on
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: because they're on like a wooden sort of like floating structure.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: So I think that that's a really interesting sort of
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: way to orient yourself to something more primordial or to like,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know, some other principle, maybe wisdom.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: You could say, yep, always go back to wisdom, truth
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: and wisdom.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: I like how you I mean, I don't know if
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 4: you mentioned this earlier, it could have been just I
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 4: forgot already because there's so much stuff said. But with
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: you adding the air and I'm assuming them, I mean,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: I like that that edition because would assume that's like
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: kind of goes along with transportation to get your message.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 4: It grows anyway, right, Like I would see I would
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 4: see air as being part of like with communication or
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: even transportation, like putting that air in the beginning, Well,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 4: the wind, yeah.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: But fire is actually the subtlest element. So from that
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: point of view. Again, the sequence as they get heavier
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: goes fire, air, water, earth. You see, that was simple.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: So you know your fire the up a triangle. Then
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: you've got your air, the triangle with the bar which
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: is also you know up the on the hexcram it's
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: the upper triangle, and then the bar of the lower
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: the inverted triangle, the bar indicating it's heavier. And then
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: you have water. You know, you're downward triangle and earth
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: the down triugle, the bar indicating it's heavier. Again still
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: so it's an increase in heaviness. So again from that point,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: if it makes sense to go fire, air, water, earth,
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: it's it's on the base qualities, on the most basic
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: level first, rather than the things that then get attributed
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: on to them. I understand what you mean about communication
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: the word you know, in the beginnings of the word,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: et cetera. But even before the word, you know, you
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: have the darkness. So then you've got that they're all
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: in the darkness and splitting up, it becomes it's a
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: whole other thing.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: No, just that made me think about your communication, transportation
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: and all those like the mercurial things that go along
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: with that. Uh, does anybody else have any other questions.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 6: I had one question, do you always do the same
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 6: kind of prep or especially like if you're working with
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 6: the Olympians, do you Because for me, I'm pretty lax
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 6: on my prep unless I'm doing like solar work. If
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 6: I'm working with Apollo or something, I'm like, yeah, I'm
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 6: gonna clean my entire house first, and you know, make
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 6: sure things are really clean. But I guess sometimes I'm like, well,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 6: maybe that's not necessarily necessary for like interacting with you know,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 6: Mercury or something like that. I'm and I don't know
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 6: whether I'm just lazy. I'm probably just lazy, But I
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 6: was just wondering how you felt about that, Like if
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 6: it's always necessary because some are more orderly than others.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: I mean spirits generally like cleanliness. I mean that's something
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: that's repeated throughout the grim wis. It's you know, personal cleanliness,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: cleanliness of the space, et cetera. So yeah, I do
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: tend to be quite fastidious about it, I've got to admit.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: I mean you even get advice in someone went to
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: you know part, you know, things like keeping a nails
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: trimmed and things like this. They really do go into
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: personal hygien which is interesting of course, because they're written
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: at a time when personal hygiene was you know, the
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: early ones in the When You Go thirteen fourteen, fifteenth century,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: bathing was not really something that tended to happen that
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: much for most people. But it stresses this whole thing
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: about the bathing, you know, being clean, cutting the nails,
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: all these things are really emphasized, and it's also mentioned
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: in reports whereas you know, spirits even demons have been
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: annoyed that people were not clean enough when they did conjurations.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: In William Dilly's autobiography and the Astrologer, he talks about
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: all these different characters, these different magicians he knew in
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: London in the time in the seventeenth century, and he
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: mentions one guy who was a bit of a drunk
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: who used to call up demons for audiences for money,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: that the demons would berate him for being drunk and dirty.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: He must have been an effective conjurer if they still
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: turned up even though he was drunk and dirty. It's
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: all I can say to that one. But yeah, personally
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: I am a bit fastidious about the cleaning thing.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 6: See, you don't feel like it's just miasma, it's deeper
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 6: than that.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: It's you know, I think MIASMASI probably more was an
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: issue with the gods, whereas when you're working with the spirits,
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: it's your personal cleanliness and the cleanliness of the room
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: that you are going to do the stuff in. With
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: the myth it's indoors. Those are what have to be maintained.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: The state of the rest of the place might not
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: be up to the same standard the rest of the
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: house or the flat, what have you, but the room
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: that is going to be in and your personal hygiene
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: are paramount. I mean working with gods that takes me
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: onto a whole other brand, because you know, if you
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: have devotional shrines, I get really frustrated by people who
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: leave offerings for too long on shrines, and I think
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: it's incredibly disrespectful to leave food to rot or flowers
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: to die or stuff on shrines rather than leave them
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: for a short fixed period of time and then you know,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: dispose of them respectfully afterwards. It really winds me up.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 7: I like that. I've got a quick thing open doesn't mind.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I love that you said that, David about
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: shrines and altars, Like I change mine note every day.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: But that's also like I'm a you know, a contributist.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: So that's basically how our ritual system works, is that
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: you do fresh lamb, fresh water and fresh flowers or
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: floral water every day. So I hear you on that,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you, how do you if you
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: do and maybe you don't, and if you don't, thought's okay,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: But how do you reconcile the fifth elements? Sort of
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: like the more Central Asian or East Asian idea of
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: akasha or space.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: I suppose I go more of the Western take of
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: like it being created by the harmony of the four elements,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: so it's like the quintessence. It's more the way I
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: view sort of of the fifth element of spirit. To me,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: it's like the although we call them spirits, they're not
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: They're not creatures of pure spirit the gener you know,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: they are still in a sense elemental beings of air,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: of fire, water, earth, even light. But spirit, spirit to
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: me is where we're talking about what we put those
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: names of Chiquina and God and other things for all
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: that the unintelligible mystery for me, that is the spirit,
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: the unknowable divine.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 7: I think actually a lot of a lot of contract.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 7: Brit Us would agree with you.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: It is sort of the deity when he arises in
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: or her in space, so in like a kind of
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: quote unquote emptiness, which is obviously for us masslessness and luminousness.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 7: It's not nothingness. So I yeah, I hear what you're saying.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 7: I agree.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: It is kind of like the four elements brought into
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: Pristina wayareness and your your samity, fire ignites, and and
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: then you know, form arises before you. I think that
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. Thank you, David.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Anybody got anything else? When I ask anythink no?
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 4: All right, David, I think we'll wrap it up here
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 4: about a little bit over an hour and a half.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much. That was an amazing discussion, better
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 4: than the first time. I really truly appreciate it. I'd
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 4: love to get you gone again in the future for
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 4: talking about this stuff early your upcoming work as well.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 4: That'd be awesome.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd be delighted to again.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: I'd like to hear about the Goatia once you're done
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: with that. That's really interesting to hear your take on that.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: I actually kind of wanted to get into that, but
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 4: I just didn't want to like touch it, you know,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: figure we'll find out when it's out.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that one. I hope to have that written by
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: the by the end of the year.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 4: Oh great.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean they say the current one should
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: be out. The one that I've just finished, hopefully should
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: be out by October November on the Pentacles and stuff.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: So that one. Now, I've got to get this one done.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm fired up with it. I've done just expective.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, amongst looking after my daughter and all the
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: other things I have to do every day, I've managed
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: to knock out six and a half thousand words yesterday
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: and today on my sort of take on the Goetia.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: So it's already hit over thirty one k words. It's
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: going to be a reasonably sized book. And I'm really
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: I'm getting that obsessive fire that I get when i'm
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: really passionate, you know, with a book. And I know
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be getting woken up in the night
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: again and stuff with things pointed out to me. I've
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: already had that with this. I actually had an angel
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: wake me up to point out something I needed to change,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, So Yeah, I'm really looking forward
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: to it. I think it's going to be plusably one
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: of the most important books I've written. I mean that
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: sounds a bit that's awesome, I'm arrogant to say, but
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: to you it is. This one feels like there's there's
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: something that really again needs to be done.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 7: I like it.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to hearing about it. Before we wrap
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: it up. We'll let everybody real quick, Kiva. Let everybody
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 4: know where they can find all your work loose.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 5: Yes, this is a lovely conversation. Thanks for being here, David.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 5: You can find me at eleven Kaibarose thirty three dot com.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 5: I practice traditional astrology in tarot and you can find
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 5: me as well as Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you, appreciate it.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: And Gin and Ninja, thank you so much, and thank
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: you to the panel, and of course David for tolerating
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: my kind of like more autism points on the tree
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: and on magic in general. I really appreciate it. It's
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: amazing to dialogue with you again. If people want to
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: check me out, just follow us on YouTube, YouTube dot
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: com slash Threshold Saints. You'll find both Threshold Saints and
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: The Gray Lodge and we are. I'm happy to announce
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: we are doing a metamagical series on Battlestar Galactica Reimagine,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: So that will air next Friday Live. So we were
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: going to see how that goes, a speculative gnostic reading
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: of Battlestar. So yeah, check that out. Thank you guys,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: appreciate it.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: Interesting, No, thank you sir. And we got Maggis. What
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 4: is up, Maggus?
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: Oh this everything, everything is up. It's fantastic. This is
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 3: a fantastic conversation, David. I truly appreciate it. I would
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: love to have you come on my show as well
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: to also have a lovely conversation if you're up for it.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 8: So yeah, wonderful, Thank you David.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: Nice. That's amazing.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 8: Yeah, this was fantastic.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: This is everything that we need in our world, understanding
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 3: of magic, understanding deep understandings of ritual to try to
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 3: bring ritual back into the temple space, both internal and external.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 3: So thank you for bringing us all together on such
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: a brilliant topic. Everyone can find magas in the media
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 3: on YouTube, x, Instagram, putting it up on Apple and
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 3: Spotify here soon and so yeah, we're just you know,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 3: we are all just one man, one woman trying to
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 3: go up against the great arcons that are in this world,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 3: the ones that are trying to help build us into
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: this truly humans.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 8: That we actually are.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 3: If we can rise ourselves from that animal state into
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: the higher divine, it's brilliant.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 8: So subscribe.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: I can share it to everyone on this panel because
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: of as we're going about it, there are many of
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: the lower whelms trying to hold us back. Yeah, so
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: this is fantastic. Again, thank you Nick for everything.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 7: And thank you David.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 4: Appreciate you coming on and Jules my man, what is
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 4: going on?
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 9: And this was a banger of an episode. I learned
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 9: a lot, Thank you, David.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 10: I said, I haven't learned this much for some time,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 10: and it's been a while since I've been on the
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 10: Accult Rejects.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 6: Guys.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 10: You can find me over on Patreon doing stuff over there.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 10: Gods in the Morning would Occult Cinema having one of those.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 10: I think we're gonna watch Bagonia, so be letting me
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 10: you all know this weekend, Nick, I'll definitely shoot you.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 10: Please the link, go check out God's in the Morning.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 10: Would may do a stream later.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 9: I'm going out on the boat, so who knows, uh,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 9: but yeah, I know this.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 10: This was fantastic and actually answered a lot of things
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 10: that I experienced in my own spiritual practices. So again,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 10: thank you David, and thank you everybody for the lovely conversation.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you sir and Errows. What is up?
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 7: Errows?
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 6: Yes, I want to echo everybody else and say thank you.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 6: This is great. You know, it's just really nice. I
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 6: feel like it's a huge privilege to be able to
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 6: talk to you and for us to do this, uh,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 6: because you're so knowledgeable and yeah, it's just it's awesome,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 6: really glad to be a part of it. So thanks Nick,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 6: and hopefully we can get you on again to talk
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 6: about the ours Geisha. That's exciting. Gives us a lot
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 6: of time to think of some fun questions. But as
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 6: mentioned at the start, I have my YouTube channel arrows
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 6: up and then you can also find me on x
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 6: at arrost those.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 4: Thanks everyone, welesome, thank you so much for coming on. Ers.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 4: I appreciate it. And David, please remind everybody what you
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 4: want them to know about where they can find all
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 4: your stuff, your website, your books. Please let them all know.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not really a social media person very much so.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: I mainly just tend to occasionally post, but what I'm
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: doing on Facebook or when I remember on my website,
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: see Rank the team, is it take good? Rank? Look,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: I can't even remember my own website address. That's great. Yeah, yes,
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: David Rankin dot com. There you go. It shows how
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: long since I ever need that.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: And I just enjoy the chance to chat with people
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: like this. It's been great. I've had a blast. So
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: thank you very much for inviting me.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 4: Thank you no again. It was always it was a
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 4: great time the first time, and it was awesome this
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 4: one and hopefully get you on again in the future.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 4: Thank you everybody who joined. I appreciate it. I appreciate
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 4: all the questions, all the insight, everybody in the chat.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 4: That's what's up. Thank you. I appreciate you all for
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 4: making it. And that's the end of another Occult Rejects
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 4: until the next one. Everybody be well. Leader