Latest / Becoming Irresistible / Season 2, Episode 27: Part 1 of Memory and Recall

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Season 2, Episode 27: Part 1 of Memory and Recall · Becoming Irresistible

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Becoming Irresistible.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jay, a high achievement lifestyle strategist and irresistibility expert.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, something that I struggle with more than anything else is memory and recall.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I learned after so many years that my brain doesn't like to hold on to information that you can look up.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, I reference how and where to find that information, but I don't actually like to store it in my brain.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned to accept that I'm a conceptual learner, that I prefer to understand concepts over details.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: However, there are times when I'd love to be the person that actually can bring up the correct names and can remember details because it really gives you more credibility that you know what you're talking about.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it also sometimes is what you need, especially in the setting of a school.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it would never hurt if you were on jeopardy to be able to actually recall the answers to those obscure questions.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless, I think it's important to spend some time looking at this particular skill because it'll help any child who's in school or learning a subject, whether it's voluntary or involuntary.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so remember, like I say to a lot of the young people that I work with, the landscape of education has greatly changed.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time that I'm recording this podcast, there are a lot more avenues to education than there were 15 to 20 years ago.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Before you had to go to a college to access knowledge, we didn't have this vast store of information at our fingertips in the size of your laptop.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it was different then.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: You had to go to university, you had to go to school to get that specialized information.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you had to remember everything if you wanted to look like a professional.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't say, I'm gonna go look this up, I'm gonna ask Chat GPT, I'm gonna ask Google or Alexa that wasn't available at that time.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So recall at that time was a lot more important.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's not as required, but I still think it's as important if you want to lend credibility to what you're doing and to make your life easier.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: What I noticed with myself is when I knew I had to use something every day, I would make sure that I remembered that within one of the first one or two times that I had to use it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that I have a problem remembering things, it's that my brain doesn't recognize the importance of remembering it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is the problem that so many people face.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've noticed that actors are so good at recalling large paragraphs.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're always thinking of their next monologue that they might have to give, right?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that to them has importance and usefulness.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you were an actor, you would feel like it was important to remember too, a really good monologue from Shakespeare.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And to the rest of the world, it looks super impressive that you could remember two paragraphs.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: But for that person, it's worth the time and effort.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So think about it for a moment.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever read something that you thought was absolutely fascinating?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then a week later, you realized you couldn't remember any of it.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was a book, a course, or even a podcast, one of these podcasts, one of the irresistible podcasts that you just heard a week ago.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And while you were listening, everything at the time made perfect sense.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: You understood it, you agreed with it, you might have even thought this is something I really want to remember.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: But a few weeks later, someone asks you to tell them about it, and suddenly you can't explain what you learned.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I came across something recently that made me really question the way that we approach learning.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we've all heard that repetition is important.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It truly is.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to remember something, repeat it, right?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you're studying for an exam, review your notes, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to change your mindset, repeat your affirmations every day.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But research actually suggests something that initially might sound contradictory to that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes having to work harder to remember something actually helps us to remember it longer.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to think, wait a minute, if that's true, why are we repeating things so frequently?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what about the affirmations?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So does that mean this daily practice of affirmations is really pointless?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm trying to develop an abundant mindset, should I repeat that affirmation every morning?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Am I really actually hurting my recall?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Should I say it once, forget about it, and then come back to it six months later?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously that sounds wrong, doesn't it?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it really raised a question in me.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, all this time I've been thinking that repeating things is the best way to learn.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe I've got it all wrong.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are we confusing remembering something with actually learning it?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I think it's really important we start.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are we confusing the act of remembering something with the act of learning it?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And are we confusing learning something with developing the ability to use it?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So in this episode, we're gonna learn about the best way to develop these capabilities that will serve us and our children for years to come.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we're going to explore what I call the repetition paradox.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think by the end of this episode, you're really gonna question how you learn and approach learning.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's start here.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's first imagine that you're a student and you're preparing for an important exam, or your child is.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: You have a chapter to study, so you read it, and then you read it again.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The second time everything is easier.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know the terminology, the explanations make sense, you remember the examples.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: By the third time, you're feeling pretty confident.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: You think, okay, I've got this.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then you close the book and someone asks you to explain what you just learned, and suddenly you're struggling.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's an important difference here that we need to recognize, which is something that I didn't separate until now.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's important to establish right now that there's two things going on.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's a difference between recognizing information and then being able to retrieve it.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: When you're rereading a textbook, the information is sitting right in front of you.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to produce the answer independently, you just have to recognize something that looks familiar.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And familiarity can create a very convincing feeling of understanding.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And psychologists sometimes refer to this as the illusion of competence.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: You feel like you know something because you've seen it several times, but recognizing information is not the same as being able to remember it when you need it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And researchers have studied this.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: In 2006, psychologists, and excuse my pronunciation of these names, I hope that I say them correctly, Henry Rodiger and Jeffrey Carpeak published research comparing repeated studying with actually practicing recall.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that means students would read passages of information, and some students spent additional time studying the passages, so rereading, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: But others practiced recalling what they read, not rereading it, just reading it once and then recalling it from memory.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: When tested shortly afterward, that means like immediately within the next day or two, the students who spent more time studying or rereading initially performed better.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: But when researchers tested them after a longer period of time, it was actually the students who practiced retrieving the information but practicing active recall, who were the ones who remembered more of the information.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's so interesting because I would have thought it was the students who reread the material who would remember it better after a week, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't you think so?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I thought so.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that means that the method that made students feel more prepared in the moment wasn't necessarily the method that produced better long-term retention.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really where something called retrieval practice becomes important.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Retrieval practice means attempting to remember information without looking at the answer.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of reading a chapter for the third time, you close the book and ask yourself, what were the most important concepts?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Can I explain them?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then check your answers.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's something important to understand.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to forget everything.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: The benefit doesn't come from actually forgetting just to forget.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you have to blank out your mind and then remember everything.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: It comes from making a meaningful attempt to retrieve the information and correcting yourself when you're wrong or when you don't remember.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what creates the neural pathways that help you to recall it correctly.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: But there's another aspect of learning that I find particularly interesting here, and it's something I've noticed throughout my own experience going through doctoral programs.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: What if you actually propose the question first?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I've noticed that for myself personally, I often learn more effectively when I start with a question.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that doesn't mean I can start answering questions about something I know absolutely nothing about.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: For example, imagine a 16-year-old who's never studied trying to answer a question about a court case they've never heard of.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, if the student doesn't know what that case is, doesn't understand what it refers to, and has never encountered that terminology before, they're going to have difficulty even understanding the question.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have to at least understand the question.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have enough learning to comprehend the question being asked to you.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a foundation that's necessary.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: But once you have enough background knowledge to understand what a question is asking, I found that you don't actually need to study an entire subject before attempting the questions.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the question itself will lead you to exactly what you need to learn.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you're studying history.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you encounter the question and you don't know the answer.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you already understand enough to recognize what the question is asking.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So start reasoning through it.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: What information do I already have?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's missing?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And why would one answer be correct and another incorrect?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And in the process of trying to answer these questions, you actually begin learning the relevant material.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not suggesting this is necessarily the best method for everyone, but I have found that it works well for a lot of people.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, some of the principal tenets that I've used in helping people to do better on tests is explaining it this way.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: How would you teach this material to another person?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes instead of asking a student, have you done your homework?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: The better thing would be to ask them, What did you learn today?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or can you teach me what you learned today?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because if that happens, that person's going to pay more attention to what's contained in that chapter.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or if they start with a question.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And with chapters and textbooks, you can often turn the title into a question.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if the title of the chapter is Spanish Armada, well, the question could be what is the Spanish Armada?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: What's the big deal about it?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: You start there and you ask yourself questions without trying to understand what the book is teaching you without actually reading.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now that doesn't take away the importance of reading, but what it does is it creates an active reading process.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that you should skip information, but sometimes this method of reading using active recall is much more effective in helping you to learn the material and understand the critical differences that you can be tested on.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the most effective approach may actually depend on what someone is learning and where they're starting.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But there's actually research that suggests that attempting questions before fully studying the material can sometimes improve the subsequent learning.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this applies to life too.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Even recently, I had read a book two years before, and it was a great book.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was meaningful.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I could see the importance of it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't until I was actually in the situation myself where I needed that knowledge.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to ask questions of how do I solve this problem with the project that I'm doing?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: That it became, it became firmly entrenched in my mind.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I became microscopic with that material.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I began to look for the answers in that book.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly, even though I had read the book before, now I actually understand what the book was trying to teach.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had something to apply it to.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another tip for practicing active recall.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Create a problem, even if you have to create one for yourself, where you actually have to apply the information.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you guys can all think of a situation where we learned material because we needed to learn that material to use it for something.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's an example of that?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Your phone number.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's only a few people in the world that really actually remember your phone number, and especially now that cell phones store phone numbers.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: The funny thing is, I can recall my best friend's phone number from when I was seven years old.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was a number I had to dial the most when I was young.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not my own phone number, but the phone number I actually had to remember and dial.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Even though today I call people more often, I don't remember their numbers.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't actually have to punch in the number, right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the things that you actually need to apply are the things that you will remember.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're having trouble remembering something, create a situation in which you need to remember that information.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go back.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Rereading information creates familiarity.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But to recall information, employ an active recall practice.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're having trouble doing that, start with questions.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Questions about the material itself, turn the titles or turn the subject matter into questions, even if you haven't read it yet.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can also create applications for that material where you need to use it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually where the basis of what we call pretesting came from.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you initially answer the questions incorrectly, attempting those questions can actually help you learn the correct information because now you're looking for those answers.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really interesting because we usually think of questions as something that comes at the end of learning.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: First you study, then you take the test.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what if questions could also help guide you in the learning process itself?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And coming back to the concept of becoming irresistible, you can even take this outside of physical information.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can take this into your interpersonal communication, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you want people to remember something that you are teaching or something that you are talking about, propose a question first.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Give them a scenario in which they don't know how to answer that question.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: When you present that question to them, they're going to be more likely to want to listen to that information.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I tend to ask you guys questions in the beginning.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever sat down and read something and you couldn't remember a week later?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, okay, now this information, what I'm talking about, becomes more relevant to you.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an example of how you can use this even in your daily conversations.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Again, one of these tools of irresistibility to put in your back pocket.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Make information relevant to someone so they can remember it, or they even have more interest in it, right?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: What if I asked this question?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Who here wants to know the code to a safe box that contains a million dollars?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Would you be listening?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I said, the numbers to that code are in the next 10 minutes of this podcast.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're gonna be very intent on every number I say, and you're gonna remember them, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm giving you relevance, I'm giving you a reason to remember, and I'm giving you a question.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know the numbers?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me be clear.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's no safe box, I don't have that.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to be like Mr.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Beast and hand out a million dollars.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to do it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So please, if you feel up for it, in our fan support page, you can send us gifts that we can conduct those kinds of experiments, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: But feel free to try it on your own.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Make something relevant to people that are in your life.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Create a reason for them to want to listen to you.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because until people have a reason to listen to you, they're less likely to listen.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're less likely to recall what you've said or what you're doing or what you're wearing or what you care about.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not about making everything about you, it's about understanding that the relevance is going to create importance in your relationships, in what you're trying to achieve.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be a bad thing.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can help other people.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can help other people with their problems by understanding these concepts.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, all these little tips and tricks and tools that we teach in our programs to help your daily life, to make you the most impactful person, to make you the strongest version of yourself, and to help you create that irresistible life that's yours and yours alone.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I kind of diverge there a little bit on applying these principles to relationships.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: What if these questions could also help guide your learning process itself itself?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: What if the questions could also guide your learning process?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: What if instead of reading an entire chapter and then attempting the questions, you first learn enough to understand the subject, right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Learn vocabulary, know the subject matter we're talking about, then ask some questions and allow those questions to reveal to you what you need to study.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're saying, oh, I don't know what questions to ask because I never read this before.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if they have questions at the end of the chapter, ask yourself the questions first.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ask them first and say, oh, this is what I need to understand from this chapter.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, now I'm going to read looking for the answers to those questions.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: That does not mean abandoning your foundational instruction, and it doesn't mean you never read material.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't even mean that you should throw people into text without any guidance.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, difficult problems.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, you have to have a foundational basis.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, but I think it's worth experimenting if you've never tried it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Try this style of learning and see if it works for you, especially for students who spend enormous amounts of time rereading material without really knowing what they've learned.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something I learned in doctoral school.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I spent hours reading, rereading chapters when the material I really need to know was actually in the questions the professor was asking during class.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I needed to know to actually do well in the test.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Standardized tests won't be just what your teacher asks you.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is, in an institutional educational setting, mostly they're going to ask questions that are summarized somewhere in the material they provide.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: So those are what you should actually focus on the most.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And learning the subtle differences between what that answer is and what another answer might have been.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning something that they would try to confuse you with, understanding the subtle difference between two or three options that could be the answer.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how you make learning really active, effective, and efficient.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's a lot more we need to talk about on this topic, but I think we've gotten to a good stopping point.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've already learned that there's a difference between rereading and retrieving.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we've also learned some ways to make retrieval more likely.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then we've also learned that we can apply that in our relationships as well.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Today, I'd like to continue on and talk more about this, but it's going to turn into a really long episode.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to make a part two so we can finish talking about memory and recall.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: At least for now, there's so much on this topic.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: But for the purposes of what I wanted to establish in this podcast, I'm going to make a part two.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to learn about the forgetting curve.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to learn about how this applies to affirmations and identity.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I want to get into how our beliefs become behaviors using these principles of recall, memory, and application.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got a lot more to talk about, but to do it all today, it just would be too much.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to hit all of those things in the next episode, part two, on this topic of memory and recall and what it can mean for our kids, how we can apply that in their day-to-day lives, the difference between recall and application.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited about the next episode, and I can't wait to get to it.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me back for that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, stay irresistible.