Latest / Connect Call / EP25 – What Nobody Tells Parents: The Truth About Recovery on Campus | Teresa Wren

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EP25 – What Nobody Tells Parents: The Truth About Recovery on Campus | Teresa Wren · Connect Call

0:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call, just leave a message and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
0:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: One for more options.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I got your number from my son's case manager.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: He is currently in treatment.
0:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he did about, I think, three to four months of the residential part and then he gets some extended.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I think, now under a year when we first brought my son to treatment, he took a medical leave from his university.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: and he always always always wants to go back to school.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we want him to go back to school.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, you know, I was talking to his case manager about wondering if what support there would be on a college campus.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, could my son go back and be on a college campus.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she had told me about these collegiate recovery schools or that so many big schools in the country.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could hear me a call back, that would be great.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to learn more about this.
0:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, this is Hannah and we are here for another episode of Connect Call where I often say I do not have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up the phones for families and crisis and I am very excited about this episode.
1:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I say this for every episode, but I really don't.
1:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess I'm excited and I'm going to introduce my guest Teresa Ren because as I've kicked off
1:23
[SPEAKER_03]: four or five months.
1:25
[SPEAKER_03]: A big reason why I wanted to do this is I've always been like a height person for all these providers that I think are doing the good work.
1:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And so this is kind of my way of showcasing amazing individuals like yourself.
1:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I have today on the show Theresa Ren.
1:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Theresa Ren, I'm just going to give you a little bit of a background.
1:44
[SPEAKER_03]: She
1:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I call you the O.G.
1:48
[SPEAKER_03]: the Goat of Pioneer and Collegiate Recovery Administrator, Consultant and License Professional Counselor with over 19 years of dedicated experience in addiction, young adult recovery, and behavioral health.
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[SPEAKER_03]: She has a proven track record of developing nationwide models for campus-based recovery support, securing institutional funding, and advancing Collegiate Recovery as an academic and evidence-driven field.
2:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're badass, Teresa, and I'm so happy to have you.
2:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being here.
2:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to tell everybody, my viewers and listeners, all 38 of you know, I'm kidding, we're actually growing.
2:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It's getting, and I just did our analytics with my producer and people are listening in Russia, Brazil, and China.
2:35
[SPEAKER_03]: So, who now?
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's impressive.
2:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm international.
2:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm international.
2:41
[SPEAKER_03]: one down a little bit of time.
2:43
[SPEAKER_03]: But I wanted to have Teresa on the show today because I remember distinctly when I was starting my career at working a Talbot years and years and years ago.
2:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was doing professionals and pilots.
2:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the WWE was one of my contracts.
3:00
[SPEAKER_03]: But my passion really was getting more into the young adult world.
3:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I really, I was a young adult who got sober.
3:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to focus my efforts in young adults
3:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember meeting Teresa hearing these rumblings out there about this collegiate recovery campus, right, where it was, and we're going to get into this, but the way I understood it at first was, you know,
3:26
[SPEAKER_03]: a program or a system in place on campus that really just supported these individuals and kids who wanted to get sober, who were sober, and wanted to just be on a college campus, right?
3:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But not feel like they're in treatment on a college campus, right?
3:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Teresa.
3:47
[SPEAKER_03]: take it back to the beginning.
3:49
[SPEAKER_03]: For someone who's not familiar with this concept, which most people are not, what is collegiate recovery program and the recovery community on a college campus and who were the first people and institutions to pioneer this work and what was the motivation in creating, which by the way is the most badass concept ever and is now in every state in the country
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So generally speaking, you know, the idea is that there are people in recovery on college campuses, right?
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are, and there are people who are using their people who are dependent.
4:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So years ago, Brown University was one of the original supporters of collegiate recovery.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Although, we wasn't tagged or called collegiate recovery.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Texas Tech also had a group of students in
4:45
[SPEAKER_01]: and at the same college within the university.
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were about 25 of them.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And they kind of built this community.
4:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was really the beginning of a focus for what today we call collegiate recovery programs.
5:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Also Augsburg College, their step-up program was very pioneering, very early on as well.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there are a couple more handful more.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Kenneth South State University, I know was the first one in the Southeast.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I was hired to come in and figure out what I was doing.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Texas Tech University actually received a grant from the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration.
5:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So, mouthful, the federal government at the time.
5:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was, as I said, $50,000.
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: made a curriculum.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of made a structure out of what that could potentially look like at the university.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what really spearheaded a lot of the new programs opening up throughout the country.
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was also one in excuse me, still a lot.
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Next, Stacy Matheson out of California, who was quite wealthy, lost a son to an overdose.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And she also helped begin to provide some
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that really started way back 2000 maybe I guess, maybe a little bit before with some of those early ones, but for kind of saw state where which is where I ended up we started our program in 2007.
6:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, I think, you know, it's funny in the work that I do and well that I did for years in treatment.
6:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Even myself, like we look back on our college years and we look at like even when I got sober at 27, when I got sober at 27, I was still considered young to get be getting sober and you know, wasn't.
6:42
[SPEAKER_03]: kids weren't being intervened like they are today, which is a gift I think.
6:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I wish I was intervened on at a very young age, because then if they intervened on my mental health, and knew that I needed help treating that, I wouldn't have been coping with drugs and alcohol.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
6:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I have found is more and more is the years go on.
7:04
[SPEAKER_03]: There's, it's so many people are sober.
7:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And so many young people are sober.
7:10
[SPEAKER_03]: But when you think of college in university and as we're seeing in the news right now, you don't kind of correlate that way of sobriety.
7:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of like, you know, I used to say to my young adults
7:27
[SPEAKER_03]: going back to college and I would have so much respect for them because it was just like I would be like you're going to war like it's going to be everywhere.
7:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think you're the shit for doing it.
7:39
[SPEAKER_03]: No, but seriously, but I think what people don't know too is there's some very big powerful players behind the scenes that have also had a like giving money and I can't say why, but I'm sure I think it was a family member but I know like Nick Sabin at Alabama was giving a ton of funding for a while to make sure like they were like a sober Greek life and things like that they was trying to have happened.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's important because the student who comes back to college or is in college, right, who needs that community is left alone to their own devices and not everybody's getting high and not everybody's getting drunk, but at the end of the day, there's this preconceived idea that that's what college is about many people's like, let's everybody have their college experience.
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Henceforth, their kids have the college experience at the football games and that sort of stuff, right?
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: the idea that I'm coming back in as a sober kid is that sense of like I'm completely unique and there's nobody's going to understand it and you know my life is over and this is not going to be fun, which is not the case at all right and I'm glad you said that because and we're.
8:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I love having Teresa on.
8:53
[SPEAKER_03]: We were going to maybe stick to the questions a little bit.
8:55
[SPEAKER_03]: But I distinctly remember having a young man who was in, and we're going to get this next question.
9:03
[SPEAKER_03]: But I remember having a young man who, he was at the program I was working at, and he had been there for just under a year, and he had done so much good work, and he was
9:15
[SPEAKER_03]: ready to go back to a school.
9:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember proposing the idea of collegiate recovery because I think the school he was going back to even had a program.
9:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember the mom saying to me,
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[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, I don't want him to feel like one of those kids on campus.
9:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think there's a lot of also like it's not like a separate campus on campus, you know.
9:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So before we get there, I'm kind of what it is.
9:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about like how does someone, so when I have a young adult or anybody who wants to
9:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And let us, I think you said like, or you haven't said yet, but we're at a point now, I think in the country where you, I think in every state, there is a school that has that type of wraparound support, correct?
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's true, I, the association for recovery and higher education is, which will be in the show notes that list.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Sentencing to you is a program or association that we started in group of us starting years ago.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And now is kind of the one stop shop for at least getting information about.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: what universities have, the detail of what their programs could entail, whether it's a community of students who are a student organization, or whether universities actually providing funding and programming for students.
10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the difference between a community and a program.
10:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And the way I would describe it to parents or kids, sometimes it's kind of like,
10:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It's probably not the best way to say it, but I would say it was like your own little mafia, like on the D.L.
10:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it wasn't like you didn't wear a sign that said, I'm sober, and these were my sober friend, whatever.
11:03
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was a place to go.
11:04
[SPEAKER_03]: There were people to connect with.
11:06
[SPEAKER_03]: There were activities, resources.
11:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You just knew you had a home base.
11:12
[SPEAKER_03]: which I love.
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was one of the most important things.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think somebody akin to talked years ago of his Mandy Baker out of Texas Tech at the time who said that they had this much space to begin with.
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And that the students were like a bunch of puppies falling all over each other, but this desire to be close to each other was the biggest connection.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's the foundation for providing a recovery program or community is having some dedicated space where
11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: they can leave their book bag then come in and get a cup of coffee, they can get a bottle of water, whatever the case may be.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They can sit around a study or just be by themselves, but it's a place of place of belonging, which is so advantageous for a university because every university or college is trying to get students to connect to the university so they stay in graduate.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it just makes incredible sense to provide that kind of space.
12:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And for all of you listeners and viewers out there that have never struggled with addiction or mental health issues, or I will say, and I've always said this, you know, therapy is amazing, treatment was great, my psychiatrist I love, but what kept me sober and what got me sober in the beginning, and I think really just.
12:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, was what I called my tripod, which were these two other women and myself who we met in treatment.
12:37
[SPEAKER_03]: We were all the same age and came from the same area and it was like, oh, if they can do it, I can do it.
12:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was the sense of belonging and that it was me too.
12:48
[SPEAKER_03]: in that with with other people and that's why I mean this is an episode another episode which I can talk about at length about where I feel like the schools are really doing a disservice in high school and middle school where I feel like I always say like in a classroom
13:05
[SPEAKER_03]: where I'm working with one kid that they don't know this, but between 60 to 70 if not higher, percent of that classroom is also everyone seeing at their epist or they may be on some sort of medication for their anxiety, depression, OCD, ADHD, whatever, but these kids don't know that.
13:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they feel so alone in that high school because the school's not doing anything to bring those kids together, you know, and there's such power in that, you know, how does it like talk to me a little bit about if I have a young person.
13:42
[SPEAKER_03]: who let's say that treatment, and they want to go back to school, I know on some campuses you need to have six months of variety before you can enroll in one of the collegiate recovery programs.
13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like to say the difference between the community and the program is the community as the individual students getting together, right?
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So they don't need anybody's permission to
14:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But the differences is when the university actually supports a program by providing staff, space, and funding that then provides some additional services.
14:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Many programs have application processes and it isn't about really accepting or not accepting somebody.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really about putting some structure around what it means to be part of the community.
14:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for example, when we first started our program, it was a year of sustained recovery to participate in the program.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: However, if you didn't have a year, you would still be part of the community.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You could come and use all the spaces, there's counseling, there was lots of, you know, support in general, but the access to programming actually provided also access to scholarships.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And the scholarships, we have a certain fiscal responsibility to be able to say, we're not just really dealing with people at money, that people are working towards sustaining the recovery.
15:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They're getting healthy.
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They're making some decent choices.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we want to fund them in college.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so that was a little bit of that.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a really good motivator like that.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we let, I mean, one of the years I was there we get rewarded about $60,000 one year in scholarships to multiple number of different students.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And each scholarship in down scholarship is designed with a criteria of the people who are endowing it.
15:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So could be part time, it could be what college they're in.
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's sort of thing.
15:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, every school is different.
15:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And the way they're doing things, can I ask currently, like, maybe, can you give me two or three of the schools?
15:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I know you've mentioned some, but maybe a big national schools that people would also know that you think have a good program in place.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, so Texas Tech University, definitely.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I love big Texas, definitely.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of such a university in the state of Georgia, obviously.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Georgia Southern Tess had a pretty significant program in other universities and I think that all of them have a good one.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was going to say Alabama next.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Alabama has a good one.
16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some smaller colleges that have some good ones University, California, has had their different branches, communities and programs as well.
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so I know.
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: and why you had a small community for a while, COVID kind of changed things for a lot of folks.
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the universities are coming back towards it, but funding in the difficulty of COVID really kind of interrupted some of the, I would say, the growth.
16:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, again, without that, getting into what's all over the news now, between hazing and sexual assault with the fraternities and all of that, I think if anything, it just shows how imperative it is, I think that these,
17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: programs need to be supported, you know, more, you know, can us all state change their program name, not right after, but after I left to the center for addiction recovery and prevention and education.
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think.
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: genius move personally, I thought because prevention and intervention is one of the ways that collegiate recovery can impact a college campus, right?
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we ended up doing at KSU, a lot of the staff, we would participate in some of the
17:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But judicial issues that were happy on campus, they would call and ask us about some of our expertise in recovery and independence and to be able to say to somebody you know what somebody can be standing upright and talking to you and being a black out and not have given consent.
18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: people just don't understand that.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so these programs and the people who typically staff them understand the dynamics around alcohol use and substance use disorder.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's empathy and education and prevention.
18:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
18:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, especially also, and I was just saying this to my girlfriend, too, of their kids old school.
18:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, sexual assault and all of the hazing and everything was prevalent when we went to school.
18:28
[SPEAKER_03]: The difference I find is the drugs now that are on the market, like ketamine, which, um,
18:38
[SPEAKER_03]: without getting into all of that is, you know, I know as from my own use as for infusions, for my depression, it's really a sedative.
18:48
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and it really, you know, even at small doses, it makes you dissociate a bit, but you don't have control of your body.
18:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel that when kids are even tampering with this and playing with this in school there is an intention for harm, major harm to themselves and others, you know.
19:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so much of the traditional college life can revolve around drinking and partying and fitting in and experimentation.
19:18
[SPEAKER_03]: What does it take for a student and recovery to feel like they're not merely just surviving college but like really thriving?
19:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I say just let me ask you, if kids like be a part of this, if, I mean, I guess substance use has to be a part of their story, but now that we know that,
19:39
[SPEAKER_03]: all it is, not all that it is, but what it is is mental health and trauma and treated, right?
19:45
[SPEAKER_03]: So can Pete, kids who really struggle with their mental health kind of be a part of this community as well?
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So as
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: whose your recovery has evolved, we have seen programs open up for students who are going to recover from eating disorders.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Gamble.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's behavioral, right?
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also surprises.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, the narrative of presenting the ideas, like, well, you know, people are drinking on college campuses and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,
20:14
[SPEAKER_01]: people also are in recovery on college campuses with the focus from alcohol used to sort of alcoholism.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But we have seen the expansion and because students show up with co-occurry right, Oppa Soon comes in and says America from alcohol use, but I'm suffering from depression anxiety.
20:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't make them leave that at the front door, right?
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on, bring it all, you know, we're here for you.
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's probably co-occurring is absolutely part of it.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Texas University, I want to say, that they began with mental health as part of their program.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, step forward ahead of, you know, alcohol use disorder.
20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's depending on each location.
20:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, it's really just accepting person for the whole being who they are.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And helping them navigate college, right?
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And that sense that I'm isolated and I'm alone and the truth of the matter is, is like, no, your mental health
21:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Challenges don't have to make you disappear for weeks at a time, come to your sit here and let us talk with you.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us be with you.
21:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
21:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And for all of you out there, still, um, still, but just a, I drill this home all the time.
21:25
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, um,
21:29
[SPEAKER_03]: addiction of any sort or any of it.
21:31
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a whack-a-mo game, right?
21:33
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you have a kid or anybody who's mental health isn't being treated or let's say they get their substance use under wraps, then they might, they're not still finding those healthy coping skills and working on themselves in that way, then they might go to, you know, now I'm going to do some control deeding or now I'm going to do some self harm.
21:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a whack-a-mo game.
21:53
[SPEAKER_03]: right.
21:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's when I have families calling me, you know, and they're like, well, I really need something focused in A, B, and C. I'm like, yes, but I'm letting you know, you know, you want to find a really strong program that's going to, and people that are going to support, you know, the whole being because that's exactly right.
22:14
[SPEAKER_03]: you're just going to find something else, you know?
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the challenge with colleges, and this is what, I mean, we know it inherently until, actually, but if you put any student into college, and what you're doing is putting them in a high pressure situation, they're, you know, learning new people, learning new skills, learning new, you know, education, getting new education, and then they just get comfortable in that semester, and then they go to the next semester.
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: and so the intensity of those transitions every couple months and then expecting somebody to do that without support, anybody A.
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But a student in recovery and somebody with mental health concerns, it's like a pressure cooker.
22:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
22:54
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why when I have families who, I just remember, I've had so many phone calls from mothers and fathers and parents who were like, okay, we've pulled our kid out from Brown, but we need you to sign on the dotted line that they're going to be returning on this date, you know, and, and I, we can't guarantee that and nor would I rush that or, you know, there's
23:21
[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, we're asking anybody adolescents, young adults, adults, anyone who goes into treatment, even the families of these people, to completely change their language that they've had their whole life, right?
23:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's going to take time.
23:37
[SPEAKER_03]: But then to then rush, I mean, that's why when I would send my young adults back to college, I wouldn't be like,
23:45
[SPEAKER_03]: You're amazing.
23:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I could do it, you know, you know, or like without that support.
23:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I could have done that.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And well, and think about going into academic advising, right?
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Your academic advising, your year sober, you know, right, you there, you've got a transcript that might look like a train raccoon knows, you know, right.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And you walk in there like, well,
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: what's your problem right like all right here's your transcript and maybe you know all right now you've been gone for a year you're coming back let's get you going let's take 18 credit hours and it's like no right so it kind of so estate and some of the programs across country we have dedicated academic advisors
24:24
[SPEAKER_01]: who are a, either in recovery themselves and working for the University or understand recovery.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And back up and say, you don't need to take 18 credit hours.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not missing out.
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to rush.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, right.
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not critical.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's take six credit hours.
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Your first semester back and see how that feels.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've seen students who have been loaded up in 18 credit hours.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The first semester back.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not anybody's fall from an academic standpoint.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But those students are not revealing their recovery to that person.
24:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
24:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And this day and age.
24:57
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so many schools that are going to support this child that I feel like you want to as a parent or if I would say even a treatment center that I worked at, we were very,
25:11
[SPEAKER_03]: proactive in finding okay here's three great schools that you should start looking at right or start applying to because they will support you there there's very similar to the program that maybe you are at.
25:31
[SPEAKER_03]: still to this day.
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: He is like my hero.
25:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He left the school when he grabbed and burned that cane to treatment for a year and went back to the same school solely because they also had a collegiate recovery.
25:42
[SPEAKER_03]: You know and they were and he just graduated and he is a rock star you know but also with that and I get I think parents don't understand is we don't give also enough credit to their the kids on
26:01
[SPEAKER_03]: are just, in the verbiage, everyone's more comfortable talking about, you know, I'm struggling, you know, and having people.
26:11
[SPEAKER_03]: having that support, you know, I had a young man recently at Tulane who, you know, was really struggling with his depression and didn't know how to, he loved his roommate, but he didn't know how to tell his roommate, okay, I need to see my therapist, so I need some space alone in the room and he just needed somewhere safe to talk about it, within his little
26:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember saying just start the conversation and see how it goes and or you know or it was recommended, you know, just talk to your roommate and as soon as he got on it, his roommate was so loving and so compassionate and so supportive, you know, and I think we don't give
26:50
[SPEAKER_03]: credit enough credits the kids out there today.
26:52
[SPEAKER_03]: There are a lot of, even though it's dark times and we're seeing chaos, because of it, a lot of these kids are more equipped than we were when we were in college around this.
27:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I think so.
27:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we had students come into into the center and say, my roommate is concerned about my roommate who's drinking, we're using too much.
27:12
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I talk to them?
27:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So we provided different educational, we would go out and speak into the classroom and say, how do you talk to your roommate about their drinking?
27:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so good.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Another intervention.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Another way to think about it.
27:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I had parents tell me they weren't intervening on their kid.
27:27
[SPEAKER_03]: They're kid and this is the first their kid rushed and joined a fraternity the fraternity brothers called the parents and said we're very concerned about how.
27:40
[SPEAKER_03]: how he's drinking and using.
27:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, well, you know thing, they're not good.
27:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And when the term is calling never heard of that before.
27:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, but I think we've got to give these kids more credit, you know, in that way.
27:54
[SPEAKER_03]: What are, what are, what do you say in your opinion?
28:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Where do you think things have advanced?
28:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And where do you think, um, um, collegiate recovery campuses?
28:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And where do you think they're still falling very
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they have advanced in the establishment of them.
28:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there are so many universities and colleges out there not everybody can afford to have a program.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do see the continued understanding of how recovery can inform and educate and prevent on the college campus.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say using asking and participating with some of these students who get trained to be allies and then go back out into the classroom and talk about it in a way that normalizes getting help and those sorts of things.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a great opportunity for that.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and I'm funding, I mean funding is just an issue in higher today anyway, and the idea that still, I mean still in in
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of universities in the ivory tower.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So to speak, it's like, well, we don't have those people on our college campus.
29:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still here that.
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, well, those people, you do.
29:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's so do.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to show up in your judicial department or in your fraternity or they're going to silently drop out.
29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the strongest arguments that I have, you know, with with people is, you know, collegiate recovery programs are retention, progression, and graduation cohorts.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: students our data showed hands down that once our students came in they stayed until they graduate and they graduated with higher GPAs than the average university.
29:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
29:41
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't you support it.
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I think where I would just say where schools are falling short is just again the stigma and people have just their ignorance still about war.
29:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It just crats me up when you hear when you hear about they don't have the funding but a lot of these schools
30:02
[SPEAKER_03]: are just pumping into sports or stadiums like that.
30:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just like, you have, I think the funding.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just what you're choosing to do with it.
30:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, is this you by the way, can we just talk about this first?
30:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I can, how did you get into this work?
30:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause I, I always say to the people that listen typically what you'll find in, in, in behavior or health as you'll find the people like myself who have, was a young adult who, because
30:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I became a raging alcoholic and drug addict, um, and because of that, I wanted to market and work with programs and and help kids find the right resources because somebody did that for myself, but at or you will find people in this field that, um, they may be
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: don't struggle with addiction or mental health stuff, but because they were in a family where it was prevalent and they couldn't control that environment, they kind of this is their way of helping now and kind of giving back.
31:04
[SPEAKER_03]: How did you get into all this work?
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I had a midlife crisis, but I had a midlife career.
31:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm having one now, Teresa.
31:13
[SPEAKER_03]: There is no shame in that game.
31:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We can talk right now.
31:16
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk after this.
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was in corporate America for years doing consulting in all sorts of things.
31:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I started working with young, was adolescence, basically, in a church program.
31:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I was volunteering and doing a lot of taking a month.
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: camping trips and also some things.
31:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And people start coming to me, I'm in recovery myself, and people will become into me and say, oh my son or my daughter, or even the students start coming to me.
31:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of started leaning towards getting a professional counseling degree, so I went back and got my masters.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And during that time, a couple of friends of mine from Atlanta came to me and said,
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we had a son who went back to college and he was came out of treatment and he kept read lapsed and they're like, how does somebody go back to college and stay sober?
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they learned about the Texas Tech model and then they brought it to the state of Georgia.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They came to me and asked me if I would shop it with them, so to speak, go to some of the universities.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: because they thought that I might be somebody who could start and work at a collegiate recovery program.
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that was not my plan for myself.
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, what they say about you know, they say you have a plan.
32:28
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a plan.
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I graduated and took a left turn and ended up a kind of associate university where there was a very progressive president, Dr. Pap at the time.
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was open to the idea.
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and funded the program and hired me to do it.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I walked in with this little Texas Tech curriculum book into an empty office and I was like, what am I going to do?
32:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I wish people that really can grab and people in the field grasp this.
32:54
[SPEAKER_03]: You have made such a difference.
32:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And you are truly what I call,
33:00
[SPEAKER_03]: What is it a change maker like you are not only the helper, but you literally, you are a huge part of why these collegiate recovery campuses have become so successful, and I think, you know, because you were the goat, you were the OG, and I think,
33:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But the kids that I know that I've been at schools and been a part of these programs are some of the best individuals and they graduated and didn't even more than was expected of them academically and it's just this amazing support.
33:38
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that I wish I had had at school to be honest.
33:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as I said, at a conference some time when I was speaking, I said, I graduated from Michigan State University.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: They conferred a degree upon me in a bachelor's of administration, or some bachelor of arts, and also an alcohol use disorder.
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I graduated with two things.
34:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I often say I graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree of radio and television film from the University of Wisconsin and Madison.
34:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't, all I remember from, no, I had a great education, but I definitely learned a lot about alcohol and drug use, you know, that's, you know, and, you know,
34:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I wish at the time there were these things in place.
34:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It would have, and made it not also that it's like this, I think what's also cool about today and so many more kids are sober and just taking care of themselves, thank God, is
34:42
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's not this weird thing.
34:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not this like, oh, you're sober.
34:46
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, I like I said, I think like Nick Sabin was trying to do this at Alabama, where he's like, you know what, we have the craziest geek or Greek girl.
34:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's like get the biggest house and do it for kids who want to stay sober.
34:59
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You asked me earlier about, you know, the college experience and I think one of the things collegiate programs do provides the space for students to make friends and, you know, some people who go to college, many people end up with those friends for the rest of their lives.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have seen that.
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I have seen so many students who come in and get connected.
35:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And find this place, this home, you know, this space on the campus, and they develop friendships at last forever.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that we also did was also set up an education abroad program.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So students don't want to go on education abroad program when they're sober, and they're going to germinate your drink beer, and they're going to Italy to drink wine.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was man.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had, well, and so we had an opportunity for you.
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had an opportunity to take our students, while I was there, so come three times, three different years, and they continue it for a little bit.
35:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Too little, and to go on a education abroad with a cohort of students who are covering.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't drink wine, but we tasted the olive oil, and we did everything else that possibly we could do that we were a service we went over amidst young adults at a program over in Chitona in Italy and talk to them about their recovery and they couldn't believe our students were in recovery and not in any medication they found fascinating lot of our students were to 12 step program so it is educational for them to get out there too and see the world is like a world doesn't have to be small because you're in recovery.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of this writing.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I want the full college experience and programs like that really do help.
36:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I think as a young adult, I mean, I know myself, you know, when I was first going to meetings, they were like, you will be grateful to be an alcoholic one day.
36:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And you will, and I was like, why?
36:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And because it truly is, as you get older too,
37:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It all it is, it was blocking me from this life that I wanted, right?
37:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And I always tell my young adults and adolescents when I would tell my story.
37:10
[SPEAKER_03]: If you used your powers for good and not evil, you could run this world.
37:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's just, you know, like, I just see like, you know, athletes, and I remember
37:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I will always remember this kid.
37:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he was like the...
37:31
[SPEAKER_03]: the president of the debate team at UNC Chapel Hill or something.
37:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And he went into a THC psychosis and we had to pull him out of it and it took about six months.
37:44
[SPEAKER_03]: But during that time, he wasn't, he wasn't when this for a while until he stabilized.
37:48
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't even remember his parents' names or who there, his parents were, right?
37:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Or thought he could fly at times.
38:01
[SPEAKER_03]: and like every parent starts the call.
38:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But he had the best education, and she, you know, is beautiful and she plays sports.
38:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, yeah, it just doesn't discriminate.
38:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And what we're trying to do is, we're not trying to be a bud's kill and ruin their life.
38:18
[SPEAKER_03]: What we're trying to do is have them thrive.
38:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And to truly thrive, let's get, let's push this, these cope, you know, help, let's get them to do health.
38:27
[SPEAKER_03]: healthy coping skills and they're so much out there.
38:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's also, you know, why I really appreciate like even during the Olympics this year again, when more athletes were coming out talking about the success they have had in their careers in sports because they took the time to work on themselves, you know.
38:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, there's a certain amount of emotional maturity eventually that comes with you know with recovery.
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and even, you know, talking with the students, we had a thing called seminar was really, I'm gonna say a group, but it wasn't treatment, so it could never be treatment.
39:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And talking to them, they'd be like, oh, I can't write this paper, it's too hard.
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It would just out on the street selling weed or something.
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're in the front houses.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: How bad is writing a paper?
39:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
39:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got this together.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Manipulate that paper instead of your parents.
39:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And we could laugh about it.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like you've got incredible skill sets.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Use them here.
39:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it is amazing.
39:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I got sober through AA and 12 steps.
39:35
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not for everybody, but it is big for a lot of people.
39:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think a lot of the things that I've taken with it was the talk of the promises, you know, of like this world that, you know, remember my first year, they were like,
39:53
[SPEAKER_03]: what are some things you want in life?
39:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And not only have I gotten those things, but tenfold, like so much more.
40:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and it was simply just being, oh look, there's Finn, this is Finn McCool, everybody.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Finn, thank you, good to have.
40:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Celebrity, I said, Dictariesa, please don't lock your dog up.
40:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I love dog interruptions, she was barking, she was barking.
40:16
[SPEAKER_03]: she wanted to be on the podcast.
40:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So real quick, where do families go?
40:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to put on the show notes, but where do families go to access like a list of these schools and getting like if I was a parent wanting to investigate and start to do my due diligence, where would we start?
40:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's the Association of Recovery Schools website.
40:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is an association that primarily provides information for high schools, right?
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are high schools that are dedicated for students in recovery.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the Association for Recovery and Higher Education, ARHE is the one for colleges and universities.
40:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And that will be on the show notes, and what I remember, there was like a map and you could like just say map and typically you click on it, then it'll drill in to the state and then give more information about what each program is, right?
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is amazing.
41:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Time information.
41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: like where it's begun with you and like where it is now it's just amazing you know it is amazing you really is amazing and there are you know Texas Tech at you know Kitty Harris Dr. Kitty Harris was huge and in getting this going to yeah give other people also their accolades but yeah I mean it take it took a you know I'm the only person in your mind for stuff it's only you I mean I learned from
41:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember that when I first met you, that we were in Texas and you were educating me when I wasn't re-rending.
41:51
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot.
41:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Trees is one of the many professionals I think I've had a really bad driving or car situation for those out there with Hannah.
42:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Not like you would ever know on this show, I'm Tannette Call, but I am the worst driver in all of history in Atlanta.
42:06
[SPEAKER_03]: They call me the parade maker.
42:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've had even, you know, a council that I've worked with us to get out of the car and take Uber if I ever want to work with them again, and Theresa and I had a situation where I think I reversed into a first minute, and that's when we fell in love.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to say when I fell in love with you.
42:27
[SPEAKER_03]: If you could last but not least, if you could sit down.
42:31
[SPEAKER_03]: with every college president in America for 10 minutes.
42:35
[SPEAKER_03]: What would you want them to understand about students in recovery?
42:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And what would you ask them to do differently on their campuses that they're not doing?
42:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Oops.
42:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I would and tell them that
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I would tell them that students in recovery are already on their college campus that students in recovery graduate typically with higher GPAs, they're more successful at graduating once they get the support systems and into recovery that you can it can provide as I said earlier intervention and some prevention work in a very significant way it can provide other peers
43:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I had students walk in the door high on heroin and come in and say to me, I understand that you understand what I'm going through and ended up successful doctors and that narriens.
43:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And these people are, you know, amazing people.
43:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's important to consider funding and getting involved in it.
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I think a president, the light of what's happening on the current situation here and especially of the Cornell, is making sure that presidents understand that they have people on staff who understand alcohol and drug use, right?
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to understand tolerance who understand the criteria for that.
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And that these symptoms, these behavioral symptoms, are really symptoms of a disease and that they're not bad people, they're not evil people, they're sick people getting well.
44:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And that I think it's every person's responsibility to really invest in the mental health and the recovery of every student on the college campus in some way shape or form.
44:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And be really educated that they don't.
44:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
44:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what's been shocking for me, especially, I'm going to do a so much on Cornell and everything that we're finding out.
44:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what's so shocking to me is this.
44:38
[SPEAKER_03]: idea of, it's like kind of when I work with treatment programs and they're not moving with science, you know, where they're not moving with medication and what is effective and what is in the different modalities.
44:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like as a college campus, you're doing a major to service to yourself and the students.
44:55
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're still like, you know, literally putting like, again, I'm going to say the ketamine thing, but you're like saying, well, she can send it to doing ketamine.
45:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's the same as like consent to do like a couple shots of the
45:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think part of this is you need to know what's out there.
45:11
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to know what these kids are doing.
45:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to know about even in the rape shops, all those drugs, and that's that beast and animal that's out there, which is also killing kids.
45:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And you have to have people on staff that are,
45:25
[SPEAKER_03]: educated on substances as well and kind of what is on trend on campus and what is endangering people's lives and and and I just feel that
45:38
[SPEAKER_03]: It's still just, yeah, it's alarming how many people work with young adults or kids and are so uneducated.
45:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Finn, about what this disease is, what truly addiction is,
45:57
[SPEAKER_03]: and how to intervene.
45:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just feel like you're working, like, I feel if I could say one thing that I'm repressive in on the college campus, it's have your staff updated and knowing in the know of like, this is a real thing.
46:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, when you have two kids who are now overdosed or died from, create them, find out what happened with that.
46:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I would think that presidents at their round table should have or whatever cabinet they have, right, should have, you know, as part of their team and educated consultant counselor, whatever professional who can actually provide education and information and insight to some of these incidents in a way that can affect change.
46:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not just speaking to colleges, mind you.
46:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my biggest breakfast station with middle schools and with high schools is not our kid, not our kid.
46:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just like, you know, or they're still doing the, just so you know, the drugs kind of prevention stuff.
47:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, you're not helping anybody with that, you know, and I mean, you know, when I first got to the college campus and I started educating people, people like, well, not everybody's a bad act.
47:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, but they could be.
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If they try hard enough.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just start there, right?
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Not everybody is, but we don't even educate them about what it means to become dependent, right?
47:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And not everybody is, but when we have a world that these kids are living in, that is not the world we grew up in, mind you, when we have this generation of kids who had to go through COVID, then with no mental health support afterwards.
47:37
[SPEAKER_03]: where we're asking them to do, you know, shooter drills on the monthly, right?
47:43
[SPEAKER_03]: No mental health support.
47:45
[SPEAKER_03]: They, you know, you name it, these kids have been through it.
47:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we're seeing more and more kids struggling with their mental health.
47:55
[SPEAKER_03]: They're gonna find ways to cope unless we're, you know what I mean?
47:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Whether it's we're cutting eating.
48:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, drugs, I'm also, I've had young men recently where it's been a big thing to their coping has been just in their testosterone use and like getting, you know, their body looking a certain way and hormones and I just feel that everybody needs to stay updated on that kind of stuff.
48:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
48:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It think it's just really important these are different times.
48:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We say social media is just yeah, it's just it's a different world and I feel that it's an unfortunate when even just reading this stuff about Cornell and just even the dial, the narrative that's coming out, it's just how our cake and some of the stuff they're saying.
48:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Teresa, it was wonderful having you on this show.
48:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say this for all those listening Teresa's one of these people, and I say this about some of the guests that I've had on that, you know, when I got into this field,
49:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I would meet any person and still do today where I would look at them and be around them and go, could they get me sober?
49:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Could they make a difference in my life or somebody I care for, right?
49:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Are they that person?
49:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Have they had the special touch in Teresa from the jump?
49:23
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, was that?
49:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I even said to you, I wish you weren't coming my friend because I would really love you as a therapist.
49:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So what I've done instead is I've sent many at high-end to Teresa.
49:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So Teresa has a booming
49:38
[SPEAKER_03]: here in Georgia, but you are licensed in other states, correct?
49:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm a licensed in Michigan and in Georgia, and then what's called the compact agreement, there's a pathway to become licensed in seven other states, currently, which I'm working on.
49:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So Teresa's information that's going to be also on the show notes.
49:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's, you are barely in everything you do, but definitely, you know, if you need that therapist or anything, look her up because she's great.
50:09
[SPEAKER_03]: She really is.
50:09
[SPEAKER_03]: You really are.
50:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really love it.
50:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to say I love you.
50:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being here.
50:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for being on an episode of Connect Call.
50:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully we can have you back on.
50:21
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll have more conversations.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for doing this.
50:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really important.
50:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
50:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
50:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
50:30
[SPEAKER_02]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for information on educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
50:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
50:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
50:53
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
51:02
[SPEAKER_02]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
51:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
51:13
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to support you every step of the way.