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The Top 3 Hardest Business Decisions · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

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Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
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You're doing hard out there and if you do hard, you get better
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and life becomes easy.
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Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast, managing your real estate media business.
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Spiro is all about, software that helps you manage your day to day business
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and ultimately to help you scale it up and grow as well.
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I'm Craig Magrum, host of the podcast.
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Thank you for joining us this week.
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We really do appreciate the time that you take out to watch or listen.
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And, we just hope this is a,
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an asset to your business, something that will help you grow,
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challenge you, stretch you,
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and, just help you build a really strong business.
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Each and every week, our co-host and Spiro founder
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and owner, Todd Kivimaki welcome back, Todd.
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Craig, great to be in here reminding me.
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Have you ever played the game cover your assets?
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No, but we did an episode on that once.
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You remember that?
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Remember that title or like I do now?
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Yeah, maybe it's because I played that game. I don't know, a group of us.
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I went to a church retreat and they played that game.
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I was like, whoa, this isn't really kosher for our church retreat.
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Cover your assets.
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I'm just kidding. Anyways, my kids love it. It's fun.
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It's a very simple but fun game.
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But you said assets that got me thinking.
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And now we're on a tangent. But.
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Hello everybody.
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Glad to have you.
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We're just going to dive right in a fun topic,
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I think, this morning, that maybe you've wrestled with.
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We're going to be talking about the top three hardest business decisions to make.
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So today you're going to be sharing that with us.
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But before we do, let's talk about Spiro updates.
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What's going on with the software.
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Yeah, I'm going to go to the event.
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So it's part of the software.
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We are actually the first software to create our own event.
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It's called the Spiro Sync and tickets are on sale.
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So go to Spiro.media click Spiro Sync.
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You'll find out all about it.
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We sold out of VIP tickets like almost instantly.
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There are still regular admission and it's not going to be a regular conference.
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I need to come up with a better term than regular general.
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This is a two day event in Dayton, Ohio.
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Our goal is that you come, you breathe, you build
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and you grow with community.
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My goal is you guys walk away.
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You've got 3 or 4 new names in your cell phone,
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and you guys get on on a Tuesday evening and talk about business.
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We're going to help you.
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We're going to inspire you.
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You all will teach each other.
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It's going to be a great event.
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So January 22nd, 23rd
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book.
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Now they are going quick.
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There's only 150 total tickets. Okay.
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So this is a small event and we wanted to keep it intimate
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for that reason because we want time with you all.
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All right.
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So Spiro.media click Spiro sync.
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Craig let's just jump right in.
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we're working on.
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We're working on a few cool things.
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in Spiro that's going to bring you more CRM functionality to help you sell.
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It's about 4 to 5 weeks away.
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We'll talk about it in in the coming weeks.
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Excellent, excellent.
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All right.
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Well let's let's get to business here then.
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And business decisions ultimately, I think one of the most
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challenging things I've ever done in my life was start my own business.
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Back in 2017.
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Todd, I was scared to death.
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I'm. I'm not a risk taker by, by default.
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And the idea of starting my own business was both,
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exhilarating and and absolutely
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petrifying because, you know,
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I always had the the security blanket of working for an employer.
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Right.
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And but I got to the point in my life, in my career
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where I was like, I just need to to challenge myself.
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I need some freedom.
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I need to know if I can do this or not.
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And the the potential,
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for moving ahead
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financially and doing something that I really enjoyed
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was a great motivator to to take that risk.
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And it didn't hurt that my wife supported that and said, if if this is where God's
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leading and, you know, in your business and your career, I'll support it.
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And I and I Todd, I couldn't be more thankful for that.
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That alone was was a huge boost.
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But in making that decision to move out on my own
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and start my own business, I suddenly had to face some very,
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very hard and challenging decisions. And,
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questions.
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And, you know, how do I do this?
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What's my next step?
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It just got me thinking, you know, you've had 20 plus years
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of of running your own business. And I've wondered.
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Thanks for aging me, Craig.
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I didn't say how old.
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I'm older than you are. Right. But.
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So anyway, I just started wondering this morning.
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I was like, I wonder what the hardest decisions are that Todd has faced.
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You know, in in starting and growing
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Wow video tours and ultimately Spiro as well.
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So let's just dive in the top three hardest decisions.
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Todd what what if those decisions have been?
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And can you walk us through how you navigated making those decisions?
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I'd love to. Craig.
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You know, as I look back over the 20 something years of being in business,
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business is hard.
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But, you know, I actually I think the longer I'm in business,
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I and in life, I just developed this desire
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to want to conquer hard.
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I had a coach and I can't
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not a
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personal coach by I read this quote and I can't remember who was from,
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but they said, if you do
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easy in life, life will become hard.
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If you do hard, life will become easy.
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You know, if you think about it,
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if you're like, hey, I just want everything to be easy.
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How much capacity for problem
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solving, for communication, for all of those things
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will you actually gain if you just do easy things?
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If you do hard, you,
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how many of you out there have done hard?
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I know you guys have, I hear you, I talk to you daily.
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You're doing hard out there and if you do hard, you get better
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and life becomes easy.
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There's things that we do at Wow every day.
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Wow. And Spiro every day
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that were almost impassable.
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Task when Todd was in year one of business, year
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five of business, year ten and 15 of business.
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Okay, so you have to have this desire to want to do hard.
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A hard thing to do is the first of the three hardest business decisions.
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Is betting on yourself.
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You've you've Craig, you talked like you took
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you went all in and you bet on yourself.
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That's not easy.
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That's not easy to have the comfort of a job.
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And maybe it's even a job you hate,
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but it's still comfortable, right?
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You know what to expect.
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You know what you're going to make.
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You know it's consistent.
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And taking that leap of faith
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into the unknown is difficult.
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I think for me. Todd,
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the the
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decision to do that, that, that, that fear that I had
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was largely tied to just a lot of self insecurity,
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a low self-image.
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I've, I dealt with that a good chunk of my life,
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and it's still a struggle from time to time.
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But you eventually get to a point in life where, at least for me, this
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this was a lesson I learned when I worked at Cherry Street Mission in Toledo,
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where we served, people, people experiencing homelessness.
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Our executive director shared this maxim with us that sticks with me this day.
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And it's the people will not change until the pain
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of staying the same outweighs the pain of change.
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Oh, and I say that.
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I say that again, Craig.
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People will not change until the pain of staying
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the same is greater than the pain of the change.
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And that's where I
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got to, despite my insecurities to say, despite my self doubt,
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the pain of staying the same was getting to be too much.
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And I saw the potential.
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I saw at least the potential for being able
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to move ahead in life financially otherwise.
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And I thought
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I had just a chance.
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I have to take I I've got to make this decision.
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So that was the impetus for me to make that change.
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I was like, I'm tired of experiencing what I'm experiencing right now.
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Yeah, I, I love that Craig.
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That is that is ultimately where we go to,
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you know, that,
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there's a couple of rock bottoms, like stories that I have throughout my life.
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And like, that sparked change. And.
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And that completely played true
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with the idea, like, hey, it was more painful to be in where I'm at
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than taking the risk of of changing and being something new.
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And I want to make sure that I'm clear on this, that this is not just
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the listeners out there who say,
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I want to get into real estate media.
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This exist every day.
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You should be examining this every day in your business.
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Okay.
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So you know, the Large one, the idea of like, let's the Cortez,
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let's burn the ships. We're going all in.
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That's just the first example.
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I think.
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I see companies struggle more and I see myself with
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stagnant growth over the years.
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When I didn't examine that question on a day to day basis.
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So the easiest example, Craig, is
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you start your business,
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things are going well and you are your business,
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and you begin to get more business than what you can
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handle.
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Okay.
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You come to this pivotal, scary moment of
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having to hire somebody.
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Okay, now let's talk through the idea of having to hire someone.
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For those of you that haven't hired, I was terrified of hiring the first time.
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Even the 10th time.
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Okay, it gets a little like, hey, I'm going to pay some money,
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but let's talk about the breakdown of hiring a photographer.
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You're hiring a photographer because you have too many jobs coming in.
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Then you can actually perform.
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So it's a pretty safe bet, y'all.
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Like when your photographer works,
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they are out there
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making money, but you are making money.
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Okay, that's a relatively safe bet.
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And that is something that you have to examine.
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Hiring a second photographer.
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So let
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me let me ask just to clarify, is, is that a part of then
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betting on yourself, the decision to bet on other people
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or make those investments
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100% Craig.
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Because you have to bet on yourself that you have the
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that you are confident in moving forward.
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There's so much that comes in that
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when you bring someone onto your team, when you bring a photographer on,
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like, you can't be like, you have to have some sort of confidence in it.
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Like, who's going to say, yes, I'm going to come
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join your team, and I might make $6,000 this year.
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You know, like some of the people that joined Wow throughout the years,
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like, I, I'm so thankful that they did like they they took a flier from me.
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They.
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Yeah.
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We're not perfect by any means a hiring.
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But when they come in we have an established business.
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We know what a pay scale is.
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We know where they're starting, where they could go.
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We know job title descriptions like we've figured some of these things out.
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I think about the first person I hired is like
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like, I would love to go back and I wish I had
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footage of me holding that interview.
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Yeah, I bet, like,
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I think I would just sit there for the hour that I probably yap
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and just cringe the entire time about the interview
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and be like, how did this person
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actually think that it was a good idea
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to stop working where they were working and take a bet on Todd?
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You know,
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that'd be a good topic for us to hear how to interview.
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Yeah, I think so.
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If you if you like to know that, just comment below.
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Email us. Hello@spiro.media.
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We always want to give you guys what you need out there, and we're always
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happy to share with what we do and what we've seen to be successful.
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Cool.
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Okay, just an aside there.
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Okay. All right.
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Well, yeah.
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So number one, top three hardest business decisions.
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Betting on yourself, especially if you have low self-esteem like me.
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It can be a hard thing, to trust yourself and.
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Yeah, to bet on yourself.
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Excellent to top so that that idea of of hiring somebody that kind of relates
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to the top number two, top hardest decision to make in hiring people.
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So you want to kind of walk us through that.
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It does it.
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It's it's a different hire Craig.
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This is
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at least for me, I brought on photographers.
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I had probably three photographers
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and I brought them on, and I got comfortable with that because
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I had the comfort of jobs coming in and actually
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the pain of saying no or the pain of agents
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being frustrated
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that we were a week out, two weeks booked out,
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that was greater than the risk of me having to bring on a photographer
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and come completely different for my first high level employee.
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Okay,
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I talked about this,
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this hiring process a little bit last week and episode on Faith.
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And if you haven't heard that story, please
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go back, because I struggle with this one and I put it off for a long time.
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It was that painful for me was this idea of, I need to hire
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someone that's going to help me with
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low level task or mid-level task
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that is not doing the actual filming of the properties.
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So this was my first admin.
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So kind of the idea of hiring up
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for a position that doesn't have a direct correlation to income
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exactly
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Yes, exactly. So if we think about it.
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So if you're a if you're a math brain or you like numbers, which you all should,
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we all should. I know some of you're like, no.
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But like if you're the owner, if you're the CEO of your company,
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you should know and and get the like these things.
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So a pnl a profit and loss statement.
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You have revenue at the top minus cost of goods sold.
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Your photographers are part of cost of goods.
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Okay, that was a that I got used to that
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that's an easier bet because I had goods that were wanted.
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Thus I was selling goods.
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That's me taking a little bit of money off of that made sense.
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Like, hey, I'll pay someone to go to the shoot.
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Especially I'm losing business.
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When you bring in the
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salary or the wages for an employee,
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underneath that,
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inside of all of your other categories.
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Okay.
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After gross profit in between.
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Net profit. Okay.
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The gross profit is not the net profit.
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And everything in between there is taking away
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from what you put in your pocket what your business makes.
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That was a much more difficult decision for me because I couldn't say, hey,
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I'm going to hire this person.
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They're going to do ten shoots this week,
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and I'm actually going to make more money than I'm spending. Hey,
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it's a little bit different because you have to say, hey,
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I'm going to hire this person.
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And one, I feel confident that
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I can go find a person.
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Two, I feel confident that I can
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articulate
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and list out what this person's going to do, what it's going to,
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how they're going to show success, or how they will find success at your business.
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Three that I can actually convince the person to say yes to the job
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before I can onboard, I can train the employee.
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I can train this person. I can set proper expectations.
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I can pass my knowledge to my what's in my head, to their head,
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and then I can walk them through a process to make them successful.
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Over a plan of 30, 60, 90 days.
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Create that seem like a mountain to me.
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Sure, sure.
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There's a lot, lot packed in there.
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Oh, I screwed it up for a lot of years, Craig.
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And that that goes back to number one.
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I. You have
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to be confident in betting on yourself to take that risk and say, hey,
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I'm going to like, yeah, I don't know what to do,
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but I know that the pain of not doing something is greater than the pain
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of making the wrong decision.
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That's an interesting twist to that.
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Just so the willingness to take that risk
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of making mistakes.
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Exactly.
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Yeah. Exactly.
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As owners I think we get this owner mentality that
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well I don't know about you all but I like I, I don't make any mistakes.
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Like I think back over the first
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five years of business, Craig I don't know that I made one mistake in my brain.
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That's a mistake I made three, I made 3 million, but
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it's just again, if if you get in this mode
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of wanting to bet on yourself, you have to have a confidence
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and not a blind confidence, but you have to be confident that
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what you're doing, you're moving forward and you're not focused on those mistakes.
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Yeah, I think that's what it was. Craig is I just
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I analyze the mistakes in sync.
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I didn't harp on them.
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I fixed them and I evolved.
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I saw it as an evolution of Todd, not as like
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the downfall of the business, if that makes sense.
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Sure, sure.
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So going through hiring my first admin, and again, if you haven't listened to last
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week's podcast, go back and laugh at me through this process of hiring on Derek.
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It was a no brainer.
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And like I still hesitated with it.
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And what that means is six months from then, 12 months from then, 24 months
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from them, then you will actually see that return on your investment.
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Okay.
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The more clear you are with the job description, the more clear you are
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with the goals, the better the person that you're able to attract and hire.
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The quicker you get to that pay off. Yeah.
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But I think
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the key in that is going into that decision to to invest that money
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in a, say, a non-revenue generating role is know exactly what you need
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out of that role so that you can focus on other revenue generating activities.
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Exactly, Craig.
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And that is where I love the idea of doing a time study.
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This has to do with.
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If you haven't listened to our guide on doing a time study, please
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go back and find those podcast,
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because there's three levels of where you spend your time as a coach.
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Taught me what we categorize
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as admin, nurse and doctor, if you think about it.
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And in a medical terminology,
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you have to be confident that the doctor activities are going
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to move your business along further, that you're willing to invest
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in someone doing the admin and then and the nurse activities,
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because you just need to value your time in getting to the doctor activities right?
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Right.
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Okay.
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So number one, betting on yourself,
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one of the top three hardest business decisions.
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You got to get started somewhere.
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So you got to bet on yourself to start.
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Number two let's let's encapsulate number two
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in the hard decision of spending money to make money.
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Yeah that a fair way to summarize what we just talked about okay.
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It is. Yeah okay.
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So there's top two.
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What's number three hardest
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is you look back on on while video tours and even Spyro.
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What's been the third hardest business decision you've had to make.
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Yeah the third one.
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And it segues from the idea of knowing
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am I spending my time on admin, nurse or doctor activities?
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Is choosing focus over noise
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okay, okay.
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As you grow a business, Craig,
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there is more and more noise.
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What I would call noise.
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Okay, so
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when we were doing
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five shoots a day,
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there was probably a good amount of days
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until we had someone unhappy or some an A client needing something.
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Okay.
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So that you're, you're always you're, we are all in a customer service business
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okay. It's a service business we run.
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Yes we deliver a product but we're in a customer service business.
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And when you're doing, you know,
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1 to 5 shoots a day, especially if it's you,
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there's not a lot of that noise from a customer service perspective.
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Okay.
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Let's fast forward Wow doing 100 shoots a day okay.
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That is two months, three months
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worth of wow, 15 years ago.
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Okay.
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And one day, one day we did three months.
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What we used to do 15 years ago.
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So naturally. And one day
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you're going to have needs problems Gaps I like to call them come in.
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And I don't want you to get in the trap
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of sitting in all of those problems.
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Oh but that's so easy to do.
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It is because we've learned as business owners that when you take
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really good care of your clients,
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they are loyal, they stick with you.
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They refer you all of the above.
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They help your business grow.
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Our number one core value.
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Wow is clients are our number one priority.
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So we think it's the most important thing.
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But I don't spend
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any time in the exact situations.
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On a day of 100 shoots, we're going to have 5 or 10 people that need something.
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They're going to range from, can you remove this item?
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Do you have an angle of this bedroom?
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Is this color tone is off.
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Where is my this or where is my that?
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How do I do the download page?
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What's the unbranded link? Can you use that?
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Right Craig.
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It's infinite right?
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You know we have a large team at Wow that deals
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with that noise every day and they're fabulous at it.
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But I have to choose
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to not go into their world.
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There's a couple things here.
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One, when Todd goes into their world,
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he disrupts everything.
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Two Todd
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becomes a crutch for their decisions on how to
25:00
follow our core values
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and ultimately take care of the client.
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I don't want that.
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I want to empower those employees.
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They are hired and they are on the team because they are good at that.
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They are good at what they do.
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So when Todd goes up there, he makes it.
25:20
Everybody second guess if they're doing the right thing, okay.
25:25
And a very easy decision for them
25:28
becomes a very difficult situation.
25:31
It's pressure right.
25:33
It's difficult to perform under pressure.
25:37
Absolutely.
25:37
Now now the flip side of that is when I am up there, you know, I,
25:44
I could sell it as one.
25:45
I'm building some relationships with them like I'm building team.
25:49
I'm they're getting a little bit of Todd two like
25:52
I might be able to educate them on something here and there.
25:55
You know, even if someone's been here I think Brittany's been here eight years.
25:59
Like, I, if I spend a day or two with her, I'm probably going to be able
26:03
to show her something that might make her
26:07
one quarter of 1% better. So
26:12
and this is where the problem comes in.
26:14
Craig Todd had to spend three days with Brittany to make her one quarter
26:18
of 1% better, versus Todd spending three days to move the business along.
26:26
Yeah,
26:27
that's what you all have to choose out there.
26:30
You have to say no to the noise.
26:33
If you make something one quarter of 1% better,
26:38
it is not worth your time.
26:41
You are doing more of a disservice
26:43
because that employee is like, well, now I need Todd to make this decision.
26:47
I wonder if he wants me to make this one quarter of 1% better.
26:51
Are you striving for perfection?
26:56
Please don't do that. I.
26:59
I did that for far too many years and it plateaued.
27:03
The growth of our business,
27:06
I'm just I'm thinking about the differences between you and I
27:08
because I, I faced some of the, you know, some of what you're talking about
27:12
right now when I had my own real estate media business.
27:16
And people are wired for different, different gifts,
27:19
you know, different different abilities.
27:21
And not not everybody is called to be an outfront type of leader, visionary.
27:27
Get the big picture.
27:28
Some of us really do like just being hands on with with the tasks.
27:32
And ultimately that's what I discovered about
27:33
myself, is I, I would rather be in the day to day,
27:37
you know, serving people, shooting the pictures, doing the,
27:42
you know, the business development activities, meeting with the realtors
27:45
and being out in the field doing those things rather
27:48
than being removed and having to build trust in, in employees
27:53
to, to make those decisions that I really I don't have time for.
27:57
I like the day to day stuff.
27:59
And so I had to make the decision in my career
28:02
to step out of more of that ownership role
28:05
and more into a support type of role and production type of role.
28:10
And that's okay.
28:11
We're all wired different,
28:13
but if if you've been called and you have the gifting to lead
28:17
and to start a business and and and grow that business,
28:22
I think it
28:23
goes back to that number one bet on yourself.
28:28
You have to bet on yourself
28:29
to be able to do number three, choosing the focus over the noise.
28:32
They're all tied together, Todd.
28:35
They really are.
28:37
So it's a bit of a trick.
28:38
There wasn't really three.
28:39
Like it's all in one.
28:42
But if you can figure this out
28:46
and if you can choose the focus,
28:49
if you can bet on yourself.
28:53
And if you're okay spending a little bit of money
28:55
to get it back later, you can grow an incredible business.
29:01
So I just want to end with a quick
29:04
I just want to end with just a quick perspective.
29:07
And I am not going to tell you all the stats to gloat
29:12
or to make you feel pressure, but
29:16
I want to show you what you can grow to.
29:19
it is possible.
29:23
Even in
29:24
2025, it is possible you I have some of you
29:27
a lot of like hey, is real estate media going to be around in five years?
29:30
Yes, it's going to be around in five years.
29:32
We were asking that question in 2006.
29:36
We asked it again five years later.
29:38
Five years after that.
29:40
We've asked that question every year.
29:44
Good business owners
29:47
find a way to pivot and grow,
29:50
in any environment.
29:54
Okay.
29:54
So what you can get to is when you master this, you can and you don't even have to.
29:59
I don't have it, master, by any means, but I practice it and we focus on it.
30:05
I don't do it.
30:07
Hardly anything at Wow anymore.
30:10
Okay, so this is year 22
30:13
and I don't do much out wow anymore.
30:16
And we've found a way to attract great people.
30:21
We've been okay spending money to make money.
30:26
And I have figured out and the team has talked about what
30:30
they are really good at and what where they can bring the most value.
30:34
We have people overall in the right places.
30:39
Okay, so we're moving the boat forward
30:42
and this year has been a great year at Wow.
30:47
Okay, so there is the ability to grow.
30:50
I think many of you knew that 2023 was a terrible year.
30:53
I've told the story.
30:54
If you haven't heard it, please go back and listen to it.
30:58
We did hard in 2023.
31:01
2024 was a rebound year.
31:03
We got really focused, really lean
31:06
and it was our best year ever.
31:10
I was I was really hands on in 23 and 24.
31:16
25 comes along.
31:18
Todd gets out of Wow almost entirely.
31:22
Okay, I have a couple means with the leaders.
31:24
I'm all morning meeting. I try to bring some culture.
31:26
I want people you know, I want to be accessible,
31:28
but I don't make any decisions. I don't.
31:30
I haven't talked to a realtor this year.
31:35
Maybe one.
31:36
Craig, I don't want a lot.
31:37
I mean, that made our largest client.
31:40
I met with him at the beginning of the year.
31:41
Yeah,
31:43
but my point is, is the team
31:45
has found a way.
31:49
To up our best year ever
31:52
by almost 30%.
31:56
That's you Craig.
31:57
It's the team like we're going to do.
31:59
And again, I don't say this to gloat
32:01
or put pressure on you, but I want you to know what's possible.
32:04
We're going to be up
32:05
three quarters of $1 million this year over our best year ever last year.
32:10
So so I say that because
32:14
and I say this from love with my heart.
32:18
You've got to get rid of your own
32:19
excuses.
32:23
That was one of the hardest things for me to hear.
32:25
I had a coach tell me I had it come to me like I saw.
32:30
Like Todd was really good at believing his own excuses.
32:35
And if you want your
32:36
business to grow, you have to get rid of that.
32:40
You've got to bet on yourself.
32:42
You've got to be willing to spend some money and and get it back later.
32:47
And you most importantly, if you do those two things,
32:50
you have to focus on what's going to move your business along the furthest.
32:56
That will get you to your goals.
32:58
Remember, you started this business for you.
33:01
You started this business to not work a job that you hate.
33:04
You started this business because you wanted to spend more time
33:07
with your family.
33:08
Be home on the weekends, be home on the evenings.
33:10
You know why you started this business?
33:13
I was thinking exactly that as you were kind of starting to summarize things.
33:17
It goes it all goes back to why you start a business.
33:21
And as you've shared in the past, you start a business to make the business
33:25
work for you.
33:26
This is not working for you.
33:27
You're, you're not hitting what your ultimate primary goal was exactly.
33:33
If you, if you come to work every day
33:36
and you are beginning to hate what you're doing,
33:40
if, if you get angry
33:42
because a realtor wants a lower price, once a color
33:47
less yellow, once more contrast in a video,
33:52
you've got to ask yourself
33:54
some tough questions.
33:56
Okay, you might need a refresh.
33:59
Some of you might need a vacation.
34:03
You might just need a break from it.
34:05
You know, I can think, but you know, I'm going to take a break
34:07
here in a couple of days.
34:08
We all get if the hair on your back stands up because an agent wants
34:12
a more contrast in a photo, like, you probably need to take a break.
34:19
Yeah.
34:21
Or you or you need to you're focused on the wrong thing.
34:24
You're focused on the noise and you're not focused on the bigger things.
34:29
Don't be surprised.
34:30
I coach a guy coach with names Jimmy Bright
34:34
a good friend of mine okay.
34:37
He helps me coach. We go to church together.
34:39
He he's a very wise individual.
34:44
He always urges our kids.
34:46
His kids.
34:46
And I take this from him to not be surprised.
34:52
Yeah.
34:52
I remember you talking about this before.
34:55
Don't be surprised that an agent wants something cheaper
34:59
when you're not surprised by it.
35:01
You can handle that with grace.
35:04
You can handle that calmly,
35:05
and then you can get back to what's actually going to move your business long.
35:09
The furthest you know,
35:13
good stuff.
35:13
The top three hardest business decisions you have to make you master.
35:17
These three things.
35:19
You've got a healthy business and and healthy growth Todd thank you.
35:23
Appreciate it. Yeah.
35:24
My pleasure.
35:24
You know Craig I'm going to ask something from our listeners okay.
35:27
Don't do this a lot.
35:27
But I'm going to ask them,
35:30
can can you all share.
35:31
Because I believe in community.
35:33
I believe in it more and more every day.
35:35
Like I told my wife a week ago, like,
35:39
I really feel like relationships are the most important thing in life.
35:44
Yeah.
35:45
And honestly, like, it gets me emotional because I'm so passionate about it
35:49
and I've seen how much it can move
35:52
people out of a dark spot into a good spot.
35:56
Can you please.
35:56
I'm just.
35:57
When did you what noise were you confused by?
36:01
Or fooled you for a while that you eventually chose
36:04
to focus on something bigger?
36:06
Can you all share?
36:07
I'd love us to share as a community these things, and I'd love
36:11
you guys to say, hey,
36:14
you and I are in the same stage.
36:17
Or maybe you're one stage ahead of me.
36:19
Look, let's zoom on Tuesday evenings, okay?
36:22
That's my goal for you.
36:24
I love that you guys hop on here and listen to Craig and I like.
36:27
I think you guys will find something in community with each other.
36:31
And if we can get comments going on this on YouTube.
36:36
In the comments below, I want you guys to talk to.
36:39
We're all out there doing this, and you don't have to do it on an island.
36:43
I would love you guys to comment.
36:44
Craig and I will participate, and I hope that you guys find 2
36:48
or 3 other people that you can do community lift with.
36:52
Excuse me so that you can give some perspective to each other,
36:55
and you guys can be an encouraging group to grow your businesses along.
37:01
I think that's kind of key.
37:02
I, I have a heart for pastors of churches.
37:06
Because I've, I've worked in that world
37:08
in Christian radio for so long, and I met with a lot of pastors, and I saw
37:13
and this I think, is this true across the board for leaders in general.
37:16
But I solve loneliness.
37:18
They feel lonely at the top, leading where they're leading. Yes.
37:23
And I've experienced that myself in past leadership roles I've had.
37:27
And by nature I'm an introvert.
37:30
But even introverts need community, even if it's just 2 or 3 other people like you.
37:35
Like you said, you know, get together with 2 or 3 other people
37:39
and have that ongoing conversation and I told my wife,
37:43
just in the last three months, I, I miss hanging out with guys.
37:48
I'm so busy with work.
37:49
And I stepped back from some things that are church,
37:53
but I've been kind of on my own.
37:55
And when I'm on my own,
37:57
even though I kind of get refreshed by it in some ways, I also discovered
38:02
that's a
38:03
dangerous place to be when you're by yourself.
38:06
And so I was talking with a friend of mine at our campground that happened
38:09
to go to church with as well, and I kind of shared that, that struggle.
38:12
And like, I just need to get together with guys on a more regular basis.
38:15
He's like, I'm game.
38:16
If you want to get together for dinner
38:17
once a month, maybe we can invite our or another friend of ours that we both had
38:21
that we're all busy with work, we're all about the same age,
38:25
but we realize we need to carve out that time for community.
38:28
So last night, Todd, we went to Penn Station, you know, and,
38:32
in a nearby town, it just got together and we're making it a monthly cadence.
38:36
Now, it's once a month on our Thursday night, we get together for dinner.
38:39
We just we just talk about anything.
38:42
You know?
38:43
It's just getting together with other people and sharpening each other and.
38:46
And not isolating ourselves.
38:48
So we we think that's that's key for, for all leaders
38:52
and owners that are watching and listening to this right now.
38:56
Agreed? Agreed.
38:57
I love that Craig.
38:58
It it can feel very lonely at the top. Yeah.
39:00
And I've felt that many times over the years and,
39:06
a community is
39:07
going to help you move along out of that.
39:11
And you could, you can get some insight on some of these hard decisions.
39:14
You have to
39:15
you have to face
39:15
maybe you've got a community where they've got some experience in this pick
39:19
their brains, you know, don't don't try and make those decisions on your own.
39:23
On your own.
39:24
There's there's wisdom in a multitude of counselors.
39:27
Now, sometimes those counselors get a little crazy, but,
39:30
you know, you have got to choose who the right counselors are, right?
39:34
Yeah. That's, Anyway, good.
39:36
Good stuff. Todd. Thank you.
39:37
I appreciate that.
39:40
All right, well, that's going to wrap things up this week.
39:44
You've probably faced these decisions yourself.
39:46
Hopefully some of this insight Todd has shared is, going to help you
39:49
navigate through those decisions that you might be facing right now.
39:53
But like, like you said, share, share some of those things
39:56
that you've been dealing with in the comments on YouTube.
39:59
Feel free to drop us an email as well.
40:02
We we'd love to hear from you, interact with you.
40:04
We really do enjoy that.
40:05
And our email is just hello@spiro.media
40:09
Todd, if you have nothing else.
40:13
I think I'll wrap up.
40:14
Yeah. Take us home, Craig.
40:16
All right.
40:17
Well, like we say every week,
40:19
take the time to be thankful for the blessings in your life.
40:22
And as the name Spiro suggests, make sure you take a breath.
40:25
Have a great week.