Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / One Leg Up With Dave Catalfamo, Executive Director of CJCC 12-19-24

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One Leg Up With Dave Catalfamo, Executive Director of CJCC 12-19-24 · OneLegUpAlex Media

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Speaker 1: This edition of the One Leg Up on News with
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Speaker 1: Alex Garrett is brought to you by skill Share. Yes,
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Speaker 2: Here's your host, Alex Garrett.
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Speaker 1: So we've connected through the political circles and campaigns. I
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Speaker 1: know you were running a few during this last election cycle,
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Speaker 1: but an Empire report JP Miller highlighted this. He wrote
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Speaker 1: about this assassination of Brian Thompson in the Daily News today.
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Speaker 1: From your perspective, first of all, give us a bit
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Speaker 1: of the op ed that we might have read today
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Speaker 1: in the Daily News.
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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think the perspective that I bring
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Speaker 3: to it is the cognacative director of the Coalition for
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Speaker 3: Compassion Compensation, which is a group that advocates for survivors
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Speaker 3: of child sex abuse, folks who were able to come
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Speaker 3: forward as a result of the CDA statue that's seven
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Speaker 3: years ago now.
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Speaker 2: In Aregacy Justice and so.
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Speaker 3: What I see in that situation is they are literally
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Speaker 3: close to ten thousands of these survivors who filed glammed
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Speaker 3: in New York, and the vast majority of them have
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Speaker 3: been frustrated by the shitanery of.
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Speaker 2: The insurance industry.
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Speaker 3: But more profoundly and honestly, the point of my opp
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Speaker 3: ed more debilitating the complete absence of the York Regulatory
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Speaker 3: Agency Department of Financial Services to do their job and
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Speaker 3: to enforce the law that was passed these many years ago,
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Speaker 3: to enforce their own guidance that actually require insurance to
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Speaker 3: act them the baith them to try to expendit these
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Speaker 3: claims about litigate them, uh and to add no idea,
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Speaker 3: they're not.
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Speaker 2: Doing any of that.
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Speaker 3: And that's really, you know, my sort of observation, you know,
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Speaker 3: the heinous.
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Speaker 2: Murder of they had to help care regular, which is
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Speaker 2: that we see these people.
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Speaker 3: Who are you know, they're not they're not warning they're
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Speaker 3: they're they're doing uh you know me memes paid us means.
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Speaker 3: But it's honest with people. My people's really sort of
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Speaker 3: missing from.
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Speaker 2: The conversation is that people don't have faith that.
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Speaker 3: Their government and going to get act as a shield
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Speaker 3: for them.
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Speaker 2: They don't. They don't have they don't have faith that
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Speaker 2: they can go to their government and fit justice.
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Speaker 3: And that's because too often which indicate that that government
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Speaker 3: is captive.
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Speaker 2: And again I think that that that.
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Speaker 3: Is really very much short of driving and come of
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Speaker 3: what we're seeing there.
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Speaker 1: Well, and some of what you're seeing you mentioned is
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Speaker 1: Mangi and Luinji Minjoe has brought to New York and
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Speaker 1: you basically had supporters and people that cheer. I mean,
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Speaker 1: we're at a point now where people are cheering this
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Speaker 1: murder and cheering him. It almost reminds me of the Joker,
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Speaker 1: you know, going to the courthouse and all his supporters.
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Speaker 1: It's almost sickening to me that that forty percent of
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Speaker 1: the youth are happy about this. Isn't there a non
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Speaker 1: violent way to change all this, you know, not murder
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Speaker 1: that that shouldn't be the answer.
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Speaker 2: Oh, of course not. And you know they're disaffected because
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Speaker 2: they don't believe.
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Speaker 3: That there are any tools for them to get justice anymore. Again,
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Speaker 3: and that's really again I go back to that, that's
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Speaker 3: the point that I'm trying to make.
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Speaker 2: So if you're rich and powerful or your corporate interests,
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Speaker 2: you take a claim and you just bring.
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Speaker 3: It to court and it is tapert put the insurers
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Speaker 3: to go to court and grind out claimant who can't
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Speaker 3: afford to do it and who will either perish from
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Speaker 3: their illness. In the case of CVA survivors, most of
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Speaker 3: them are older. Their claims are mostly in the fifty
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Speaker 3: sixty seventies, So their ability to take these issues to
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Speaker 3: court and basically lagate them as opposed to try to
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Speaker 3: settle them becomes a significant weapon. And people see the
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Speaker 3: weaponization of the weapisation of the justice system to something
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Speaker 3: obviously talk a lot about last year. And then at
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Speaker 3: the same time, when they go to look for help
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Speaker 3: from their government, their government again in this case, the
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Speaker 3: Department of Financial Services isn't even enforcing the law and
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Speaker 3: the books. Even when hundreds of them approached the agency
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Speaker 3: and say what are you doing, you know, asking for help.
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Speaker 2: They say, oh, we can't do that because of legation.
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Speaker 3: Alex I will tell you if government stopped every time
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Speaker 3: that there is littigation going on about one aspect of
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Speaker 3: the law or another, there would be nothing that happens.
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Speaker 2: Ever, because most everything gets littig needed on some level
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Speaker 2: or an other. Big an interest.
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Speaker 3: So you know, people are frustrated, they're angry, they get angry,
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Speaker 3: and they.
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Speaker 2: Get disillusioned, and it's troubling, troubling to see it. But
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Speaker 2: it's more troubling. And you pointed out that it's eve
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Speaker 2: are young people, right, But get that? Really, I think
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Speaker 2: is there to you that the system.
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Speaker 3: Is so broken that it takes an external for it's
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Speaker 3: an assassination to actually kind of shoot up the system.
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Speaker 2: And that's really.
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Speaker 3: Unfortunate, and that's an endigument of our leaders and our
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Speaker 3: government and our system which is not being responded to
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Speaker 3: the needs of a.
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Speaker 2: People where they'd be survivors or hooks for healthcare.
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Speaker 1: Well, there are a couple of lines in this article
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Speaker 1: I want to get to, which is I think you
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Speaker 1: just mentioned it the New York Department of Financial Services
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Speaker 1: transformed from a regulatory guardian to a corporate shield. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I think that hits home the point. Now, all of
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Speaker 1: these victims, I also feel like they're not being heard
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Speaker 1: by the health care companies and the justice system. Are you,
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Speaker 1: like the only guys that hear them out? Is that
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Speaker 1: what's going on here?
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Speaker 2: Also?
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Speaker 1: And you're advocating for them, but I might it must
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Speaker 1: feel like you guys are serve alone in this effort
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Speaker 1: to get them justice.
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Speaker 2: No, you know, I of think I can say that
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Speaker 2: so many you.
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Speaker 3: Know, the advanced majority that they're represented by advocate, the
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Speaker 3: able advocates.
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Speaker 2: To a trial, learn and whatnot who you know, were
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Speaker 2: advancing their cases and bringing to you know, into through
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Speaker 2: our justice system.
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Speaker 3: Put the reality in is that what's going on or
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Speaker 3: that in many many cases ensures who.
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Speaker 2: Very regularly paid out on the plane. This is not
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Speaker 2: this is not a mystery to that up.
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Speaker 3: Until a few years ago, they would actually in the
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Speaker 3: normal course of business.
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Speaker 2: Payout of these planes. They they in many cases have
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Speaker 2: stopped that completely.
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Speaker 3: And as a result, what we see is, you know,
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Speaker 3: thousands of these survivors who are basically being brought through
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Speaker 3: a legal grinder.
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Speaker 2: And now it's not just in New York.
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Speaker 3: In Los Angeles, the Los Angeles School District is suing
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Speaker 3: job on a very similar matter.
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Speaker 2: All around the country. You have insurance, whether it be.
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Speaker 3: In Maryland and the Baltimore Diocese or Los Angeles with
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Speaker 3: the Los Angeles School District, or obviously in New York,
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Speaker 3: not just with the Archdiocese of New York, but with
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Speaker 3: Rockefeller University, which itself paid out literally one hundred and
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Speaker 3: many of the dollars in claim, you know, effectively getting
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Speaker 3: ahead of it.
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Speaker 2: And now they're being.
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Speaker 3: Sued by Chubb to avoid actually making any payment on
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Speaker 3: those claims.
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Speaker 2: So what's happened is that what was in the.
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Speaker 3: Normal course, you know, covered previously by emplair by insurers
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Speaker 3: rather and now being rejected.
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Speaker 2: And it's being rejected because of the vast number of
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Speaker 2: claims that have come forward. And you know, there's I
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Speaker 2: think a little over thirty.
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Speaker 3: States that have now adopted statue locations uh look back
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Speaker 3: or opening the window on past abuse, and that has
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Speaker 3: opened up a real significant liability for insurers and one
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Speaker 3: that this is one of the next need of which
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Speaker 3: they are trying connectitate.
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Speaker 1: You know, Dave, I got to ask you this. Everybody
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Speaker 1: talks about justice for these survivors, why don't they ever
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Speaker 1: talk about the health of it. I feel like you're
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Speaker 1: saying here, hey, let's also focus on the healthcare, not
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Speaker 1: just getting them justice.
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Speaker 3: No, I mean, so what what these typically are they insure?
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Speaker 2: Like in this case and.
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Speaker 3: The ARA would which actually been liquidated, others a Beautican
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Speaker 3: national there literally large insurance lest they property and casualty.
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Speaker 2: Who.
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Speaker 4: So what they do is they employ, they ensure the school,
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Speaker 4: or the diet or the daycare center or the boys Scouts, right,
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Speaker 4: so they ensure them against you know, against things that
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Speaker 4: happens that aren't expected.
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Speaker 2: Right, So deep institutions all pay insure the evens.
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Speaker 3: Are bigger than dollars over the years to ensure themselves
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Speaker 3: in the instance.
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Speaker 2: That something goes wrong.
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Speaker 3: And again, like I said, you know, these claims have
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Speaker 3: been paid out for years. They're decades of history of
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Speaker 3: insurers paying out on these claims. The only thing that
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Speaker 3: has changed, the only thing that is actually materially different
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Speaker 3: is there are.
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Speaker 2: Now thousands of them.
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Speaker 3: That are actually going to court that are looking to
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Speaker 3: be paid and insured instead of not paying them anymore.
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Speaker 2: But many, many cases are instead doing the insurance.
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Speaker 3: Dance, you know, deny, defend, defend, and defend depose. However
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Speaker 3: it is and you know that is again a legal
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Speaker 3: strategy that actually uses the actuarial table right to look
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Speaker 3: at the lives of people and a certain number of them.
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Speaker 2: Before they interested this resolve making their payment their state.
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Speaker 2: The individuals who are their errors actually fall through it.
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Speaker 2: So it's a very deliberate intensional strategy. It is one
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Speaker 2: board of the fact.
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Speaker 3: That there is so much more liability not just in
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Speaker 3: the art around the country. And you know, when you
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Speaker 3: look at the insurance industry at large, right, we see
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Speaker 3: issues around the country when it comes to home ownership
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Speaker 3: and automobile insurance.
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Speaker 2: And so the industry, uh not large is struggling with
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Speaker 2: a lot of difference. But in particular in this case,
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Speaker 2: we see you know, childhood victimist next abuse who are
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Speaker 2: bid without the gold.
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Speaker 3: And again that's the problem and the testable the want
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Speaker 3: of way, but's what more the testable is when your
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Speaker 3: government walks away from it, when your government passes a
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Speaker 3: law that directs action to be taken, when they take specific,
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Speaker 3: specific legal legislative action to create an avenue for child
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Speaker 3: victims to receive some measure and let life must be
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Speaker 3: honest right now, I mean they're in there justice that
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Speaker 3: could be ever won from some measure of it and
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Speaker 3: and that is being denied them now because both lawmakers
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Speaker 3: and regulator will turn their back and said, oh, okay, well.
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Speaker 2: You got to go figure out and we're you know,
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Speaker 2: we're not going to.
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Speaker 3: Get in the middle of actually enforcing the law which
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Speaker 3: we put on the book and making people do what
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Speaker 3: we said in the law originally.
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Speaker 1: So now any of you have any of your you know,
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Speaker 1: people that you work with, the victims, have they ever
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Speaker 1: thought of violence, not toward the companies, but even toward
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Speaker 1: the dioceses and let these happen. Have they ever had
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Speaker 1: those thoughts? Or how do they handle their trauma their
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Speaker 1: grief over it happening?
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Speaker 3: You know, I've never heard about the say anybody of
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Speaker 3: the survivors I've been fortunate enough to meet and work
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Speaker 3: with express any kind of violent tendency will be used.
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Speaker 3: You know, I've heard you know, people have a lot
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Speaker 3: of different ways of coping with.
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Speaker 2: The kind of damage that results from that kind of abuse.
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Speaker 3: And you know, some you know, uh express themselves interacting
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Speaker 3: in them right and through their efforts to try to
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Speaker 3: assist in helping bellow survivors.
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Speaker 2: To get the kind of justice they be able.
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Speaker 3: Other there, you know, severely damaged and have a hard
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Speaker 3: time functioning quite frankly.
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Speaker 2: And others still you know, walking away.
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Speaker 3: And and uh it's a quiet part of their life,
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Speaker 3: one that they struggle with a lot or people the
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Speaker 3: best to.
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Speaker 2: You know, keep separate. So I dealt with a net
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Speaker 2: all kind of that.
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Speaker 3: I've never had one individual expect to be in earned
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Speaker 3: for violence. Uh, A lot of disappointment, a lot of anger,
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Speaker 3: but mostly, you know, mostly, you know, you're talking about
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Speaker 3: a large group of advocates who really you know, they've
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Speaker 3: put so much into getting legislation passed to give them
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Speaker 3: this opportunity to finally, you know, see some build of
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Speaker 3: some kind of address and then.
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Speaker 2: To get into that. And now six seven years later,
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Speaker 2: we're not most of them are not any further along
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Speaker 2: than they were.
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Speaker 1: Well, and I was going to ask about timelines because
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Speaker 1: is there with these claims? Is there a what do
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Speaker 1: you call it limited statue of limitations like it is
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Speaker 1: with the law or how does that work?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there was a window for them to file
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Speaker 3: the claims, right, So the so there were a two
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Speaker 3: year window, got you that extended with COVID that it
13:47
Speaker 3: made it a little bit more for individuals who had been.
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Speaker 2: Who have a claim to file that.
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Speaker 3: And so during that period of that time, you know,
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Speaker 3: literally eight thousands again New York has close to ten thousand.
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Speaker 2: That's overall just to New York. And the best bulk
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Speaker 2: of those.
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Speaker 3: Came during that period after the act has passed UH
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Speaker 3: and again the best majority and have not moved appreciably
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Speaker 3: in the legal system. And that's what's just terribly frustrated.
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Speaker 3: And again that's that's that's where you know, government's just
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Speaker 3: not doing this job, you know.
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Speaker 2: And I mentioned in the article right like you know,
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Speaker 2: Arnahgal took.
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Speaker 3: Some very strong and direct action get them them when
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Speaker 3: they were looking to you know, reduced to anesthesiology UH visions,
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Speaker 3: and you know that was very direct and very effective
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Speaker 3: and taking that on that's the kind of leadership.
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Speaker 2: That we need to see here. Again, we're not we're
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Speaker 2: not asking for changing the law. We're asking for just
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Speaker 2: the worst of the lot of the books. You know.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely in addition to all of this, these claims in
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Speaker 1: the in the setral limitations. It doesn't happen often. But
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Speaker 1: have you ever thought of protesting in from of these
15:10
Speaker 1: searches that come to mind? And does that is that
15:13
Speaker 1: something that you guys are active with their protests where
15:17
Speaker 1: outside these different churches where these abuses took place, Well,
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Speaker 1: a lot of.
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Speaker 2: That happened when they are protesting to get the mob
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Speaker 2: pat and so right now, I mean, you know.
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Speaker 3: We see I think all of the diets of except
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Speaker 3: for the Archdiocese of the art of bankrupt and that
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Speaker 3: they're you know, looking to move forward to settle and make,
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Speaker 3: you know, through their part, to kind of settle their claim.
15:41
Speaker 3: And you know, you have school district and you see
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Speaker 3: on Long Island school districts that are issuing bonds twenty
15:50
Speaker 3: three ordy million dollars bond plane. You have Devoid Death
15:53
Speaker 3: of America famously who have love bankrupt and paint.
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Speaker 2: Out on our paying and the process of paying out hundreeople.
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Speaker 2: They have the power of the bankruptcy.
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Speaker 3: You have not for profit providers and this is really
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Speaker 3: kind of where it's sticky is you have not for
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Speaker 3: profit providers who are currently in the business of providing
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Speaker 3: childcare services around the state who have legacy cases which
16:15
Speaker 3: we bankrupt them and put them out of business and
16:18
Speaker 3: and actually hurt the delivery of service today and many
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Speaker 3: of them and said, hey, wait, we.
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Speaker 2: Didn't do it. We're in the bust for providing care
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Speaker 2: now and you're gonna you're going to disrupt that. So
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Speaker 2: there are I get it. There are a lot of.
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Speaker 3: Issues that attended with with these cases, and there is
16:36
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, uh, downstream issues that probably
16:41
Speaker 3: lawmakers could have and should have bought up when they
16:43
Speaker 3: passed the mill, that they didn't.
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Speaker 2: And as a.
16:47
Speaker 3: Result, you know, we have you know, basically a lot
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Speaker 3: of folks who again were promised a measure of justice,
16:54
Speaker 3: just the measure of.
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Speaker 2: Justice, and never get it, you know. And and now
16:58
Speaker 2: because of all the tenant.
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Speaker 3: Issue, nobody wants to do anything, and it's just strong,
17:05
Speaker 3: you know, there's not another ways there, and it requires the
17:08
Speaker 3: leadership and it requires the state to get it back together,
17:12
Speaker 3: make sure the insurance that the table, make sure the
17:15
Speaker 3: institutions that they'd.
17:16
Speaker 2: Harm are at the table. No one's shoeing off the
17:19
Speaker 2: hard right.
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Speaker 3: Everybody needs to be at the table. And if there
17:24
Speaker 3: is instances.
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Speaker 2: Where you know, and look, I mean, you know, we
17:28
Speaker 2: talk about not.
17:28
Speaker 3: For profits who provide services as we know, you know,
17:32
Speaker 3: churches and religious institution provides servicetitute and then going bankrupt
17:36
Speaker 3: and communities around the state isn't always the best thing either,
17:39
Speaker 3: back then saying it's a terrible thing.
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Speaker 2: Just like not for profits who who.
17:43
Speaker 3: Are now thirty forty years removed from the incident, you know,
17:48
Speaker 3: have are looking to bear these costs.
17:50
Speaker 2: And there's problematic.
17:52
Speaker 3: So everybody needs to be responsible, be sure people be responssible,
17:56
Speaker 3: to be responsible. But the state that passed this law
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Speaker 3: and providing an opportunity in a halfway to justice needs
18:06
Speaker 3: to step up and.
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Speaker 2: Make sure that they're addressed and if they need to.
18:10
Speaker 3: Be additional public poality actions to figure out somebody that they.
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Speaker 2: Will then take it. But you know, in the typical
18:17
Speaker 2: a kind.
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Speaker 3: Of fact and they go around, you know, bumping on
18:20
Speaker 3: their chat to know what a great thing we did.
18:23
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you how you ended up
18:24
Speaker 1: from politics to this kind of advocacy work or were
18:27
Speaker 1: you doing that all the while you were, you know,
18:30
Speaker 1: a campaign consultant and whatnot.
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Speaker 3: You know, I have a lot of different things that
18:34
Speaker 3: I'm passionate about, Alan, but I'm passionate about public service
18:37
Speaker 3: and you know, and so they had an opportunity to
18:41
Speaker 3: get involved with this and it just really you know,
18:45
Speaker 3: I took.
18:45
Speaker 2: To it because it.
18:48
Speaker 3: Is an injustice and I feel like it's one that
18:52
Speaker 3: really just needing education and advocacy and it's.
18:56
Speaker 2: More than to be from there. And I hope though,
18:59
Speaker 2: you know.
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Speaker 3: That I was in a position of the you know,
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Speaker 3: thankfully to be able to help shine some light on
19:05
Speaker 3: it and to work with.
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Speaker 2: Some of the lawyers and the survivors and UH.
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Speaker 3: And hopefully find some way to create revolution and there
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Speaker 3: I think one of the first states to pass the
19:16
Speaker 3: CBA state statute. I think it should be one of
19:20
Speaker 3: the state first states to resolve all the CBA statute
19:23
Speaker 3: to allow the institutions, whether they be churching or a
19:26
Speaker 3: boy scout, local properts, or school to move.
19:29
Speaker 2: On as long as they have one.
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Speaker 3: Two days one they do in best to address the
19:35
Speaker 3: harm of the past.
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Speaker 2: But be if people, you say to this and we
19:39
Speaker 2: do do this, so that institutions actually put it in place,
19:44
Speaker 2: the breureaucuracy, the management, and make it and to ensure
19:47
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen again. Right, I think this is not
19:50
Speaker 2: just oh, I'm going to punish you. This is this
19:53
Speaker 2: is you're going to play the penalty.
19:55
Speaker 3: But that penalty is supposed to ensure that you're.
19:59
Speaker 2: Ordering nation does the thing that you need to do
20:02
Speaker 2: to safeguard, you know, your work with children in the future.
20:07
Speaker 3: And I see no evidence that anybody actually following up
20:11
Speaker 3: on that part as well.
20:12
Speaker 2: But that's that's equally well, equally important in this scenario.
20:16
Speaker 1: You know how not all over the place, but how
20:20
Speaker 1: dynamic the show is. So tomorrow I'm scheduled to interview
20:24
Speaker 1: Jay paternal the son of Joe Paterno, and I'm going
20:27
Speaker 1: to kind of delve into this and say, you know,
20:29
Speaker 1: are you surprised the institution bounce back? I mean, Penn
20:32
Speaker 1: State was for dead after all of the Sandsky stuff,
20:35
Speaker 1: Yet here they are in the college football playoff. From
20:38
Speaker 1: your perspective, is something like that right years later that
20:42
Speaker 1: they were even allowed to play. I mean, I thought
20:44
Speaker 1: they were going to be done for after all of
20:46
Speaker 1: that happened.
20:48
Speaker 3: Look, I'm fine of them saying, and I'm quoting a
20:52
Speaker 3: famous quote, but they're the thousands of years man as
20:55
Speaker 3: friend who in the Catholic Church.
20:57
Speaker 2: Catholic Church will stand, whether bank up there, whatever storm
21:01
Speaker 2: it's in, it will stand. The ideas, the principles will
21:04
Speaker 2: go forward and it will serve. What's Some institutions like
21:08
Speaker 2: Penn State and the Boy Scout want.
21:10
Speaker 3: That they need to reform, They need to take a
21:14
Speaker 3: proper accounting of how they did wrong, address it, do
21:19
Speaker 3: their best to fix it and to provide relief to
21:22
Speaker 3: those who they help to victimize.
21:25
Speaker 2: But then they go forward and do better, right, do better?
21:31
Speaker 2: And so I'm not, you know, all of the.
21:33
Speaker 3: Steed on the thing that Penn State had done, but
21:35
Speaker 3: I'm probably pretty certain that they put in place negatism
21:38
Speaker 3: to ensure that that kind of stuff doesn't happen again.
21:42
Speaker 2: And that's what we need to do.
21:44
Speaker 3: We need to fix the wag of the past the
21:47
Speaker 3: extent we can make sure they're going forward. Our institutions
21:50
Speaker 3: are taking the manaus that they have to do to
21:53
Speaker 3: ensure that our children are safe in their care, and
21:56
Speaker 3: they're going to be one hundred percent, but we commit
21:59
Speaker 3: it better.
22:00
Speaker 2: We should be focused on making that better.
22:03
Speaker 1: Amen to that. You know, you just mentioned a few
22:05
Speaker 1: minutes ago that your the victims that you work with
22:08
Speaker 1: are angry. But where was Luigi Manngione different? I mean,
22:12
Speaker 1: he took that anger and took it out in a
22:15
Speaker 1: violent act. What makes from your perspective, seeing all the
22:20
Speaker 1: frustration and anger, what makes someone tip to that moment
22:23
Speaker 1: where they just want to shoot the guy? I mean,
22:24
Speaker 1: is there is there a psychological thing that you think
22:27
Speaker 1: is going on here?
22:29
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not just apply on that, and I
22:33
Speaker 3: certainly I don't understand it well enough.
22:36
Speaker 2: I don't under Luigi. Well enough, I will pretend to
22:40
Speaker 2: I think that you are sick.
22:43
Speaker 3: Enough to frankly take somebody's wife, take somebody, no matter
22:47
Speaker 3: how brush to do it.
22:49
Speaker 2: Then you have serious effects, brilliant and they're justifying it.
22:57
Speaker 2: They go they know anything. And honestly, again, I wouldn't
23:01
Speaker 2: pretend to get into the guy's mind. And I think
23:04
Speaker 2: that all these people who are ascribing their own anger
23:08
Speaker 2: and earth and.
23:09
Speaker 3: Everything to it, they may be surprised to learn one
23:12
Speaker 3: day that he took the nut.
23:14
Speaker 2: You know, they may be just they may be surprised
23:16
Speaker 2: to learn that he really you know that.
23:19
Speaker 3: A motive, warning motives, you know, we don't know, you know.
23:23
Speaker 3: So I can't get if every page is will trying
23:25
Speaker 3: to go there, but to the extent that you can't
23:28
Speaker 3: look at the.
23:29
Speaker 2: Anger that's out there, that's playing out in social media,
23:32
Speaker 2: that playing out insin in the news.
23:34
Speaker 3: Is a real frustration with institution, with healthcare providers. And
23:39
Speaker 3: again I say, you know, well, it's not not bubbled
23:44
Speaker 3: up to the top of the conversation. The reality would
23:47
Speaker 3: these people be having these feelings that their regulators were
23:51
Speaker 3: actually doing their job and ensuring that people weren't being
23:54
Speaker 3: screwed around, that people weren't being denied coverage it that
23:57
Speaker 3: they deserve, that people were getting access to the justice
24:01
Speaker 3: that they deserve under the child victim That would people
24:04
Speaker 3: be having this reaction that they've bought their government with
24:07
Speaker 3: doing what they're supposed to do, which is to put
24:10
Speaker 3: their interests for and not the interest of you, to ensure.
24:15
Speaker 2: It would feel different. They don't believe it.
24:18
Speaker 1: The other bureauctic struggle this is remind me of is
24:20
Speaker 1: how every year it's a fight to even get nine
24:23
Speaker 1: to eleven victims, you know, help. So it's like, why
24:26
Speaker 1: is there so much bureaucotic struggle against all of these
24:30
Speaker 1: different efforts. That's what has to be looked at, you know,
24:32
Speaker 1: is why so many struggles for just people that need
24:36
Speaker 1: to live, need to find their justice and need their
24:39
Speaker 1: their mental and physical health, you know, honored as well.
24:44
Speaker 1: The other fascinating thing in which I'm bringing you on
24:47
Speaker 1: here for is the AI discussion. The AI discussion about
24:51
Speaker 1: how you say that human healthcare is now an algorithm.
24:55
Speaker 1: Powerful line in that article, But what have you learned
24:58
Speaker 1: in your research on that?
25:02
Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to pretend that I'm an.
25:04
Speaker 3: AI expert but I've spent some time, you know, researching it,
25:09
Speaker 3: and look, I mean, you know, AI is aim powerful, but.
25:13
Speaker 2: It's imperfect, and it doesn't replace human judgment. It is not.
25:19
Speaker 3: It can it can protect things that are that our
25:23
Speaker 3: minds may not perceive. Uh, it can do certainly with
25:26
Speaker 3: things faster and consume more data and process more data.
25:31
Speaker 3: But if you're going to ask it to have judgment,
25:34
Speaker 3: then you're completely wrong because it doesn't.
25:36
Speaker 2: Have judgment like that. It doesn't doesn't have experience is
25:40
Speaker 2: what it doesn't have.
25:41
Speaker 3: Doesn't have empathy, and it doesn't have rud them And
25:46
Speaker 3: that sounds kind of well, I don't know problems.
25:49
Speaker 2: I guess, but it's very fundamental to it.
25:53
Speaker 3: I mean, all these people who write about how you
25:56
Speaker 3: know AI going to dislide whether this older generation. I'll
26:01
Speaker 3: be honest with me, I think the only generation.
26:03
Speaker 2: That actually is capable of managing AI.
26:06
Speaker 3: Is a generation that is actually formally educated and trained
26:11
Speaker 3: and has wisdom and can look at something and understand
26:15
Speaker 3: that it's just fundamentally wrong, that it lacks empathy, that
26:18
Speaker 3: it lacks morality, that it actually just sometimes just lacks
26:22
Speaker 3: basic fact that have not been sort of absured.
26:25
Speaker 2: By it, so I think it. Look, it's powerful, it's
26:28
Speaker 2: an amazing tool.
26:30
Speaker 3: It's going to transform our economy, it's going to transform
26:34
Speaker 3: all aspects of the human existence to be.
26:37
Speaker 2: Quite out of but not in the position to replace human.
26:40
Speaker 3: And in particular right now, if they're using it as
26:43
Speaker 3: a blunt instrument to decide healthcare decisions, it is not
26:51
Speaker 3: up to that test.
26:52
Speaker 2: Today in my view.
26:55
Speaker 1: I love the Yankees, but it's one thing for the
26:57
Speaker 1: Yankees line to be termined by AI, you know their analytics,
27:01
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's another thing when they let healthcare
27:04
Speaker 1: of humans be decided by AIE.
27:08
Speaker 2: It's just like that. I don't.
27:12
Speaker 3: I won't tell you that, but you know, guarantee you
27:16
Speaker 3: had a really slow heart beat in the body.
27:19
Speaker 2: They may have a lower batting age.
27:21
Speaker 3: The wealth see that comes to the side, but you
27:24
Speaker 3: know you've got a lower heart beat, so you wanted.
27:26
Speaker 2: Them in a situation. I don't believe it doesn't have
27:30
Speaker 2: They had there, but it doesn't have everything. I think
27:33
Speaker 2: that's where people come at.
27:35
Speaker 1: Right, You're so right, Dave. I got to say, there
27:40
Speaker 1: is an administration coming in, and do you think a
27:44
Speaker 1: President Trump administration could help this kind of act be
27:48
Speaker 1: truly you know, pushed through and all that or what
27:51
Speaker 1: what are you thinking?
27:53
Speaker 2: You know when I when I do think that.
27:56
Speaker 3: We're feeling profoundly among the survivor community and York. But
28:00
Speaker 3: I think that is one definitely want to be felt
28:03
Speaker 3: throughout the nation because this is the playbook that largeins
28:06
Speaker 3: are they're using to stall claimed and in most states,
28:11
Speaker 3: and so when you see things that are happening in
28:14
Speaker 3: a multitude of states that the majority of states.
28:16
Speaker 2: Start to take, you know, uh, take action. I think
28:21
Speaker 2: that it does create.
28:21
Speaker 3: An opportunity for Congress and for the administration to get involved.
28:25
Speaker 2: And it is actually out like yet that it is
28:28
Speaker 2: something that we're going to do in next year.
28:29
Speaker 3: We do plan to bring this issue to the Hill, uh,
28:33
Speaker 3: and to educate members of Congress about this issue in
28:37
Speaker 3: the in the insurance industry and there you know, their
28:41
Speaker 3: their their efforts to avoid liability into these claims.
28:48
Speaker 1: That because I feel like the combatting of sex trafficking
28:51
Speaker 1: is so important, but so here is this child abuse
28:57
Speaker 1: as well, And I feel like the two are not
28:59
Speaker 1: one not more important than the other, They're equally important
29:02
Speaker 1: and they both should be for on the Hill to
29:04
Speaker 1: come back both of these things.
29:08
Speaker 3: Again, I'll go back to it's about having institutions who
29:13
Speaker 3: do their part to enforce the law, to enforce the
29:17
Speaker 3: laws on the books, and to hold people accountable, both corporation,
29:22
Speaker 3: other country bull institutions accountable for their place in society.
29:28
Speaker 3: And that the only way that we can have a
29:31
Speaker 3: society where we have faith in each other and bathe
29:33
Speaker 3: in the system that things that can be fair. Right,
29:40
Speaker 3: absolutely fundamentally, what we needed to begin.
29:43
Speaker 1: Are doing a deep dive also on the number of
29:46
Speaker 1: senators that are getting kickedbacks from these insurance companies, because
29:49
Speaker 1: that's a well known fact. But does that play a
29:51
Speaker 1: role into this enabling if you will.
29:56
Speaker 2: You know, we have not looked at that, but at
29:58
Speaker 2: this point you know, honestly, and I will say, it's
30:01
Speaker 2: a head factor. I don't I don't want people life
30:03
Speaker 2: of me.
30:03
Speaker 3: Why the Parking of Financial Services, which had all the
30:06
Speaker 3: authority to get in the world, which had the law
30:08
Speaker 3: on its side, which had issued its own guidance like
30:12
Speaker 3: so the Department of Financial Service that they don't do
30:14
Speaker 3: read so much regulation, they need guidance letter. They put
30:17
Speaker 3: out guidance letter that basically telling them about out and
30:21
Speaker 3: they're not enforcing their own guidance.
30:23
Speaker 2: So I don't know honestly what that's about, you know,
30:28
Speaker 2: whether that's about you know.
30:31
Speaker 3: You know, corporate interests, big interests, or if that's just
30:36
Speaker 3: about being concerned about the impact on the industry at large.
30:39
Speaker 2: And you know what, if we deserve that conversation, you know,
30:44
Speaker 2: and if.
30:44
Speaker 3: They do have the dam and concern that they need
30:46
Speaker 3: to bring them forward, not just sit in silence and
30:49
Speaker 3: say we're going to wait until litigation done, because you'll
30:52
Speaker 3: be waiting another decade before all the litigation is done.
30:55
Speaker 2: That's not what the law products.
30:57
Speaker 1: One day. What to help you guys out and to
30:59
Speaker 1: help these victims out. Mostly, we're going to email this
31:03
Speaker 1: link to the you know this this institution because I
31:08
Speaker 1: think they need to know. You know, we're getting highlighted.
31:11
Speaker 1: This is getting highlighted. The Department of Financial Services needs
31:14
Speaker 1: to know. The New Yorkers are not happy. I think
31:17
Speaker 1: that's the bottom line here.
31:19
Speaker 2: Thank you. That would be great.
31:20
Speaker 1: And that's the thing I say, New Yorkers, but I
31:22
Speaker 1: feel like this isn't a well known thing. So how
31:24
Speaker 1: do we make it more enlarged for people to see
31:28
Speaker 1: not just a podcast, but what else can we do.
31:31
Speaker 2: You know, look, I mean that's.
31:33
Speaker 3: Kind of being on the board and you know, just
31:38
Speaker 3: thank you for doing this, because you know you're.
31:41
Speaker 2: Moving the bull board by giving us a venue to
31:43
Speaker 2: talk about usue and get it out there more. And
31:46
Speaker 2: I do think the more that we get it out there,
31:48
Speaker 2: the more.
31:49
Speaker 1: That we find light on it.
31:51
Speaker 3: You know that that will cause you know, bodies to
31:55
Speaker 3: move and trusted finally gets imagine here and you know,
32:00
Speaker 3: so we'll just keep shipping away and look, and I
32:03
Speaker 3: believe in.
32:03
Speaker 2: That that's the process. That's that's that's the way that
32:06
Speaker 2: government work. That you do that.
32:08
Speaker 3: But you know, again, if this is if I was
32:11
Speaker 3: coming on your show, Alex and saying, you know, we
32:13
Speaker 3: need to change.
32:14
Speaker 2: The law and you know, we have to do this
32:16
Speaker 2: and that to make sure that this happened to that
32:18
Speaker 2: happened every one thing.
32:19
Speaker 3: That that's an an advocacy process, right, that's a legislative process.
32:23
Speaker 2: Body and met all that we're not doing that.
32:26
Speaker 3: We're just saying, follow the law on the book today,
32:30
Speaker 3: follow the law in the books today, the one that
32:32
Speaker 3: you have told the industry how to act.
32:35
Speaker 2: And if you just do that, then you know we'll.
32:40
Speaker 3: Be satisfied and at least the government is doing its
32:43
Speaker 3: best to you know, or making an effort to enforce
32:46
Speaker 3: the law as was promised.
32:48
Speaker 2: But the failure to do that is it's it's it's
32:54
Speaker 2: it's terrible.
32:55
Speaker 1: It's to see pull and claim denials are always any
32:59
Speaker 1: emotion a roller coaster because it's like you feel lost,
33:03
Speaker 1: you feel helpless after a claim denial. And you mentioned Chubb.
33:07
Speaker 1: Are there any other companies that you're going up against
33:11
Speaker 1: when it comes to this.
33:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of them who are in this space, and
33:15
Speaker 2: they have been some kind.
33:16
Speaker 3: Of consolidation over the years, you know, necessarainly have some
33:19
Speaker 3: some claims.
33:20
Speaker 2: The National has.
33:21
Speaker 3: Some plain error, would to be liquidated, had plans. I mean, uh,
33:26
Speaker 3: there are many many you know, the large insurers who
33:29
Speaker 3: you know they insured school danger, paint out, Catholic religious
33:33
Speaker 3: old certifization, they insured not for profits, right, So if
33:37
Speaker 3: they're in that space at all, they you know.
33:40
Speaker 2: Have some exposure to this.
33:43
Speaker 3: But I'll say it's been a chubbed to a large
33:47
Speaker 3: degree that has squareheaded this very aggressive legal posture with
33:52
Speaker 3: respect for litigating these claims.
33:55
Speaker 2: And it is they're not they're not unifon. I mean
33:58
Speaker 2: there are some insure and.
34:00
Speaker 3: Even show itself as you know, taken action in some
34:04
Speaker 3: places to help bring some clodion with some claims in
34:08
Speaker 3: New York and.
34:09
Speaker 2: Around the country.
34:10
Speaker 3: But writ large, if you're to look at the top
34:13
Speaker 3: of their actions, they're doing their best to avoid having
34:18
Speaker 3: responsibility to chaotic plan and some of the other large
34:21
Speaker 3: insured and small insure that are following suit and that
34:25
Speaker 3: at the legal strategy.
34:26
Speaker 1: So and finally, your message to those victims that are
34:30
Speaker 1: speaking up, I mean you must be very proud of
34:32
Speaker 1: them that they're going through and speaking up and then
34:35
Speaker 1: taking action.
34:37
Speaker 3: Alex, I'll tell you, like I you know, I you know,
34:41
Speaker 3: just humble to work with people who you know, have
34:47
Speaker 3: been able to use their voice to advocate too, to
34:52
Speaker 3: put aside or to somehow manage their own uh and
34:59
Speaker 3: be breat enough to come forward and with their voice
35:03
Speaker 3: out there. I'll say you it's it's humbling, you know
35:06
Speaker 3: what I mean, to work with people like that, because
35:08
Speaker 3: it's a special kind of courage and special kind of strength.
35:13
Speaker 2: And honestly that a lot of times out this I
35:16
Speaker 2: don't I don't feel word and to tell your story,
35:18
Speaker 2: you know I'm not, but I guess I look at
35:24
Speaker 2: myself as a messenger.
35:26
Speaker 3: I understand government, I understanding you know, the less of
35:29
Speaker 3: the legal system.
35:31
Speaker 2: Uh in advocacy and.
35:32
Speaker 3: If I can help be a voice for the really,
35:37
Speaker 3: like I said, Hobbly, do that well.
35:41
Speaker 1: I'm honored that you brought this story to real life,
35:44
Speaker 1: you know, from the pages to an actual podcast, and
35:46
Speaker 1: hopefully this helps keep the conversation going. Kudos to JP
35:50
Speaker 1: Miller Empire Report for featuring this and reminds when you
35:53
Speaker 1: check my email, because every day you might find a
35:55
Speaker 1: news story that just pops up and we got to
35:57
Speaker 1: cover that. So Dave, thank you for rting. Can people
36:00
Speaker 1: expect more from you in these in the local papers
36:03
Speaker 1: or is that a once in a bloom moon type
36:06
Speaker 1: of game.
36:07
Speaker 3: We're going to keep pushing on this until we get
36:09
Speaker 3: to leave, so we'll be back, all right, We'll.
36:13
Speaker 1: Be back, As Arnold Schwarzenegger would say, David, thanks so
36:18
Speaker 1: much for joining and Merry Christmas in a really happy
36:22
Speaker 1: holiday season. You know, I'm glad that you guys are
36:24
Speaker 1: giving that comfort to the abused during this time of year.
36:29
Speaker 2: I said, I'm tumbled to be a part of it.
36:31
Speaker 3: Alie, thanks for having me on and same to you
36:34
Speaker 3: have a day holiday and have some fun enjoyed them.
36:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, because a really well there.
36:43
Speaker 1: Amen to that New York Daily News article by Dave.
36:48
Speaker 1: It's linked in the bio below. Thanks so much,