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The Grill Out Hot Tag Episode 2: Ric Flair's True Number of Titles · WCHS Network Podcasts

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: The following contests schedule.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Paul, Paul.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: You don't see me crying, You don't see me down
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on my knees begging about it. Welcome to the Grill
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Out Hot Tag. Here's your host, Hollywood Jeff Petty. Well
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the back ladies, coming to the Grill Out Hot Tag.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: My name is Hollywood, Jeff Betty. I'm your host, and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I'm joined by one of my illustrious co hosts, Josh
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: col Babe, the belt Expert, actually the belt collector, our
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: belt collector. Yes, yes, And so if you're new to this,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: this is episode two of the Grill Out Hot Tag
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Dose Dose. This is a short one. This is a
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: short form version of the actual show. The actual show
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: goes out on terrestrial radio fourteen ninety am five eighty
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: am every now and then, but this one is solely online.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So wherever you get your podcast, whether that be YouTube, Spreaker, Spotify, iTunes,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: podcast Addict, wherever you get your podcasts, that's where you
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: can find this. And you can go listen to the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: first episode, the Infamous mooda scale that we did just
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a couple months ago.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, these are a deep dives into topics that
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: we don't get to cover quite as much in the
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: main show.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, So I'm gonna go ahead and toss stuff
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: to Josh since this is technically his episode. So yeah.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: And speaking of championships, when we think of the greatest
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: professional arresting world champions, who are some people that come
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to mind? I mean, this is a good one at yeah,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I mean speaking of the man. For many people, Rick
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Fulair is considered the greatest world champion of all time,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: and some even goes for us in the greatest wrestler
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: of all time. There is no dispute that he is
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: one of the all time greats, both as a wrestler
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: and as a world champion. What is dispute, however, is
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: how many times he has actually been a world champion.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: This is the grill at Hot Tag Episode two, where
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: we are going to answer to question how many times
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: has Flair actually been a world champion? All Right, now,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: for some of you listening, you may be thinking to yourself,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: he's a sixteen time world champion. Case closed, and wwe
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: would have you believing that. However, the reality is he's
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: not a former multi time world champion. As professional wrestling
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: is scripted, so the answer is zero case closes. We're done.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next episode.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: All right, all right, we're done, right, okay, listen to this.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: We're good. Yeah, all right.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So all jokes aside. In the Universe of Professional Wrestling KFE,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: WWE claims that Rick Flair is a sixteen time world champion,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: which is.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Something that you hear quite yeah often actually if you're
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: a longtime viewer of.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: WWE, and even outside of ww some promotions have even
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: said that. I think T and A has said that before.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but uh but.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: He's actually held more than that. But for WWE, for
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, they just say sixteen and they've stuck with that.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So how many has he held? Would you like to
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: take a guess?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: M I've okay, so so real quick, I've heard this
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: conversation before. I will say twenty. It's around there really, okay, okay,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: depending on your source. All right, See, this is this
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: is why we call Josh the belt expert. He knows,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: he knows what he's talking about.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And I will say it is, in fact twenty, but
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: it's actually more.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Really, it's more than twenty.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It's more than twenty.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'm all ears right, yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: All right, so before we get into the actual number,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: we're going to go what you know, go over what
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: WWE counts. Okay, So, first of all, for clarification, he
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: is not a sixteen time WWE champion. I've seen people
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: online get confused by that and think that when ww
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: he says the six sixteen time world Champion, they think
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: he's saying he's a sixteen times WWE champion. Some people
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: have even gotten that confused with John Cena, who is
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: a sixteen time WWE World Champion, but his are thirteen
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: reigns with the WWE Championship and then three reigns with
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: the World Heavyweight Championship from the Ruthless Aggression era.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Is John Cenna and I'm going to look it up,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: but is John Sina? The is he won a ww
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: championship the most out of anybody, specifically w championship. Yes, okay,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: all right, and yes yes he has Okay continue.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: So now, as for Rick Flair, WWE recognizes that he's
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: an eight time in WA World Tvweight Champion, a six
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: time WCW World Heavyweight Champion, and a two time WWF
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: World Heavyweight Champion, which of course is today's WWE Championship
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: and yes, you heard that right. He has only held
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a WW championship twice, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: All of his other world championship are from outside of WWE,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: and that may lend to us to why WWE only
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: says sixteen. But then those waters get a bit muddy
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: because there's a world championship that he's held twice that
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: they do not recognize for him, but they do recognize
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: for Rick Rude. You know what you title I'm talking about?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Is it the is it the International Championship?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, the WW International World Heavyweight Championship, which some people
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: do and don't consider world title. We'll get into that.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was gonna say that was where that
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that was where the original big gold belt was, was
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the International champion Hip.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, we're going to get into that too, all right,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: all right, all right, I'm all ears.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just talking.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So for how many Rick Flair is held, depending on
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: the source, it's as low as sixteen, as WWE claims,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and at most twenty five.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Rick Flair says twenty one himself, and Allly
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Wrestling actually echoed that same number when he was working
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: with them back in early twenty twenty four when he's
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: doing the steam retirement stuff. So let's break down how
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: many he's held. So we start with the National Wresting
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Lions where Rick Flair, you know, that's where he really
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: made his name for himself as a decorated world champion,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: really elevated that title. The famous Big Gold Bet, as
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: we just mentioned, it was actually introduced during his fourth
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: reen and it was originally a custom belt for him,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: but it would become the main belt for the NWA Championship.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But anyways, so WWE only says he held the title
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: eight times, but the NWA actually recognizes that he was
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: a nine time champion, and for whatever reason, ww doesn't
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: count that one. There's a title change that happened in
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Japan in ninety one. I think that's the one they're
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: not recognizing for whatever reasons. And who was that against
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I don't remember right off, okay, but it was in Japan, okay.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: So basically they consider his seventh reign and continuation into
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: the eighth that NWA is considered separate. Now, but so
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: that's nine that NB recognizes. It doesn't stop there. He's
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: actually held that title thirteen times. Yeah, there's been some
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: title changes that did happen overseas or they were overruled.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So there's four.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Reigns that INWA just does not recognize. So officially by NWA,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: he is a nine time NWA champion, but WW only
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: says eight. Now we move over to World Championship Wrestling,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: WWE says Flair is a sixteen at six time world champion.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Before WW was bought out by WWE in March two
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: thousand and one, WCW officially recognized Flair as an eight
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: time champion, and actually in WWE's official title history it
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: shows seven. And we'll get into that discrepancy here shortly,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: but like the NWA title, there was a title change
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that occurred that WWE does not recognize but WCW did.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's yeah, it's weird. It's weird.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: But anyway, now, now, as for that discrepancy of six
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: or seven, in the official title history on WWE's website,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: it shows that he is a seven time champion, but
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: they only recognized six for this, you know, sixteen times.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And so what happened was that during Flair's seventh ring
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: as NWA champion, WCW began to recognize him as the
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: inaugural WCW champion, but it wasn't really a double champion
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: per se. It was the same championship, but he was
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: the exact same belt, which was the big Gold Belt.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: So basically what WWE is saying here is that this
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: is just the same rain. It's not too separate rain.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So with wwwwe says six, but it's really seven. But
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: if you want to consider that inaugural rain and that
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: nw ren is separate, then it's eight ragns. Then there's
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: another world championship from WCWW mentioned earlier with Rick rud
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and that is that WCW International World Heavyweight Championship. There
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: are some people who do not consider it a world
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: championship just because kind of like how some people for
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: however many years have considered a universal title and not
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: a world championship when it is. But anyways, I'd.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Say it's in the name, yeah yeah, universal, okay, yeah yeah,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: but strange people, and you know, maybe that's why WWE
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: doesn't reckon the international title for flair.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so ww International, it was kind of like
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: how there's the role in SmackDown brands in wweh there
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: was the main WSW roster. Then there was the WW
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: International roster, which also worked with New Japan Pro Wrestling,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: and WW International actually became about because of Rag Flair.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: So he had left WCW, taking that big gold belt
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: with him. Then he joined a WWF at the time,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: then he returned to NWA and became the NWA Champion again,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: and then he returned to WW with that big gold belt.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So ww decided to recognize him as the inaugural WCW
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: International World Heavyweight Champion. Does that sound kind of familiar?
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, it does. Yeah, that's that was the big Gold.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had the big Gold at this time. Yeah, okay,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: that's how the Big Gold came back to WW.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Oh what's there's an international Heavyweight Champion? Yeah, okay, okay, So.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is basically the same scenario how he
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: was claimed to be the inaugural ww WORLDWA Champion. And
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: that is the second scenario that I kind of agree
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: with WWE on. They're just considering this as an NWA
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: ran instead of a two separate reigns, which would have
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: been his official ninth in Debra ran or thirteenth overall.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: But this is what WWE would say his eighth reign
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: was pre the NWA title. Now, Flair would hold the
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: International Championship twice, with his second reign coming as a
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: result of a unification match in which he was the
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: reigning WW champion defeated the reigning International champion Sting to
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: unify to his titles, and that's how the Big Gold
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Belt took over being the WW title again. Okay, all right,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: so WW they recognized him as the final International Champion,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: but WWE does not, don't really quite know why, and
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: WW is going WWE, So WWE is a bit weird
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: in how they handle championship unifications and who they considered
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: the final champion to be for that title that gets retired.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: For example, back in December twenty thirteen, when they unified
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: the WWE Championship and that Ruthless Aggression era World Heavyweight Championship,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: so reigning WW champion Randy Orton defeated reigning World heavy
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Weight Champion John Cena, and in this case, they recognized
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Orton as the final World Heavyweight Champion. But when you
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: go back to twenty twenty two with nx TUK, you
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: know they had all those unification matches with the n
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: x T un X T UK titles and every nx
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: D UK champion lost in those matches, but they consider
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: every nx T UK champion that lost as the final
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: champion instead of the person who won. I don't understand
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: what their reasoning is with how they do this.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: They don't.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not consistent.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: We we and we've talked about in previous episodes about
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: how weird they are about counting certain things. Yeah, I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: guess unless it's I was gonna say, unless it's under
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the ww banner. But even in what you just said
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: with the UK title, that was under the WWE banker, So.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Dartboard on the wall.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Darts pretty much. But so back to Flair. So officially,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: so far, we have nine n WA championships, six or
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: seven WCW Championships, depending on if you agree with WWE
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: not recognizing that one title vacancy, and one international championship,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: which is also agreeing with WWE and considering the respect
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: of inaugural rains not being separate. So that puts us
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: at either sixteen or seventeen. But wait, there's more.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: But wait, there's more. In the words of Billy Mays, Yeah.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So we touched on it earlier, but he is also
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: a two time WWE champion, and there is no discrepancy
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: on that. He's just a two time ww champion.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Which in the grand scheme of things, is kind of crazy.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there is actually a cool fun fact regarding
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: his first w Championship reign. Uh So, the first time
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: he won it, or rather you know was WWF at
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: that time, it was for winning the nineteen ninety two
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Royal Rumble match and that was the first time that
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: there was actually a prize for winning the Rumble. So
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: like that year, the title had been vacated, so the prize,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: they just made the prize of that match the vacant title.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And wasn't that around the time when Flair like he
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: came to ww and he brought the WCW title and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: gold belt. Yeah, he brought the big gold belt and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: said caught himself the real world Champion.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they actually had to create their own version
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: because there was legal issues with that belt.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, they got they get a little
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: little bit of legalities on that one. And like it
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: was a house shows where there was a it was
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: basically like a replica of the tag belt. Y.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they even created a weird looking big gold belt
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: for a little bit too.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Eventually I think they dropped it like very shortly before
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: this ouble. But an also fun fact, you know, it
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: was ninety three that when that's when they started a
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: tradition of winning. If you win the Rumble, you get
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: a world title match WrestleMania. Okay, but so with his
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: two WWE championship rings, that brings us to other eighteen
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: or nineteen, which will be nine NWA six or seven WSW,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: ONEWW International and two WWE. So how do we get
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to twenty one? Like how Flair himself claims well, in
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: order to do that, we have to say he's an
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: eight tom WW champion as mentioned before, so counting that
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: seventh NWA reign and the inaugural with ww REN as
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: separate championships, and we also have to count that vacancy
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: that WWE does not count. We also have to recognize
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: both international championship rains, so considering his ninth in WA
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: reign and that inaugural rain as separate reigns, and also
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: considering that final reign in the unification match as a rain.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So that would be nine NWA eight WSW two WW
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: International and two WWE to give us twenty one. But
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: if you remember, as I said earlier.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say you said it was up to as
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: much as twenty five world titles.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Yep. So like I said earlier, he's actually a thirteen
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: time in WA champion, So that puts us at twenty five.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, so real quick, real quick, with these NWA titles,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: are they not counting? Like who was the guy? I
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: think they were in Brazil or something like that. They
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: were in some they were somewhere in South America and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the crowd was so rabid, like they like it was.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: It was a hometown guy and Flair was defending the
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: title against him. Now this is now, this is how
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the story went from what I can remember is Flair
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: was going against him. I can't remember remember the gentleman's name,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: but I think originally Flair was supposed to retain the title,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: but because the fans were getting so out of hand
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: in there, Flair called an audible in the ring and
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: was like, take it off of me just so he
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: could get to the back safely. Is that like one
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: of one of the reason why is it's not counted?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Or that could be it? I mean, there are some
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: title changes, like there was one he dropped at the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Harley Race in New Zealand. They don't count it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: That was it actually in New Zealand or.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay it was a house show. There's back
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: in eighty four. Oh wow, okay, then he won the
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: title back in Singapore like just a few days later.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, but yeah, they just consider they don't recognize
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: that title change at all. N waight does not recognize that.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's but yeah, like all these are basically like
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: outside of the United States, they just basically not sanctioned
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: or they overruled them.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that's that's how like we get to where
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Flair is, in his words, twenty one world time, twenty
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: one time world champion or what everybody knows him as
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: as the sixteen time world champion.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so at the very least, going by what he
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: actually held, he's at least eighteen or nineteen. And that's
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: going by how WWE handles those two ww rains that
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: overlap with those n WA RNs and also the one vacancy.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: So that's nine WA six w w ONEWW International and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: two WWE. Well, what do you think what should he
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: be recognized as I don't know, it's it's.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Weird, it really is. Like sometimes it seems like sometimes
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I like I kind of understand why they don't want
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to recognize like when the big Gold Belt came back,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: like they want to recognize that as one long rain
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: instead of two separate rains. I kind of understand the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: reasoning there. But then there's just weird times where like
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: we're just not going to recognize this for whatever reason exactly.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, and it's like an NWA even with like
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: what you just said with Harley Race, Yeah it was
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: only a three day rain, but it was still a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: three day rain. I mean he still had to carry
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: because Kfabe was well and alive at that point, and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Harley had to carry the belt around. Yeah, so you
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: know he would he do carried around for nothing just
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: so Blair didn't have to deal with it in customs.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, like like the only two I really agree
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: with WW one is those two inaugural reigns. Just they're
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: considering that one continuous rains that two separate rings, and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: it kind of makes sense.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah that yeah, that one right there does Like I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: said that that reasoning right there makes sense.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Because he was the he was in his seventh ring
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: and as n W a champion, and then WW just
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: started to call him their champion as well. But it
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: wasn't like it was two separate championships.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Exactly, Like because I have I have right here pulled
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: up on Wikipedia the WW Championship. I was because I
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: was just curious, Like I said, I asked you earlier
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: about John Cena, I'm looking at this and it would
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: be like like modern day think of Roman when he
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: had both belts. Yeah, and they combined them like they
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: retired one, but they still could say that this is
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: one big rain for him, so actually didn't retire.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It still haven't retired.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Well okay, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's tr it still has.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: But they still didn't They didn't recognize it as like
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: when they combine them, they didn't recognize it as two
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: separate reigns. They recognize it as one big rain. I
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: guess it's that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I guess that's what I'm trying to say kind of.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: So they basically continues universal, but they do actually recognize
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: as WWE starting at the unification match, so he was
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: technically a double champion. Okay, and Cody is technically a
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: double champion because they still have not retired a universal title.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, that that is weird. That okay, that that
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: right there is kind of weird.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it should have been retired when Roman lost,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: but for what reason they've kept it?
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Like right here, I mean in a way I
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: kind of get it. Ooh wu the Undisputed WW Universal Championship, Well,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: ray here, I mean then again, this is on Wikipedia
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: out there.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Literally did oh this is what I'm about to read?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Ray he probably Okay, yeah, because it says the Undisputed
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: WW Championship in parenthes is formerly known as the Undisputed
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: WW Universal Championshipah, they truncated to they dropped the universe
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: when Cody won. Okay, still both and they recognize it
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: as both. Yeah.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Like, if you go on WWE's let's say, right now,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: you'll see two title histories universal WW, both of them
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: are still ongoing, with Cody listed as both.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: So but so the would that technically, like, whoever wins
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the belt, including Cody, would that make them automatically a
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: two time champion, two time world champion.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: By a technicality?
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: They might not necessarily look at it that way but
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: by a technicality is yeah.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: So technically right now Cody is a two time world champion.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Wow. I never even looked at it that way. It's weird.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it made sense for Roman up until he lost,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: but they should have retired universal rate then and there
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: and they didn't.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it says it. Yeah, you're you're right,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: it says right here. It's at first in twenty sixteen
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to present actually WW Universal Championship, then from twenty twenty
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: two to twenty twenty four the undisputed WW Universal Championship
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: oo woo, Then from twenty twenty four to now the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: undisputed WWE Championship. Yeah. So, I mean I guess in
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a way it'd be it only be a matter of
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: time before it's before they don't they drop it? At
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: least you would think.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I figure when they finally stop saying undisputed, that's
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: probably when they'll drop that, okay, and just b WWE
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: title and.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Who knows when they will officially and maybe at WrestleMania
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: forty one. I don't know. I mean, it's you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: it's some sometimes I agree with like I like Triple
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: H on a lot of his decisions, but sometimes when
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you take he's going to zig, he's ags.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: So there's one. I am still confused. On the the
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: ww Women's Championship belt, it says undisputed on it. Yeah, Like,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know why they did that. I like, I
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: understand the color scheme to match the men's, but why
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: did you put undisputed on there? There's there was nothing
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: undisputed about it.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe I see. No, that's I mean, that's a that's
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: a solid, solid answer there. I don't know, I really
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: truly do not know why that. Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: But to kind of bring this back to Flair, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: speaking of Triple H, you know, with him being over
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: WWE creative, will he go back and retroactively say Flair
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: is more than sixteen times?
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know he has I mean, he has the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: authority to say that. Ye.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like they won't because of John Cena.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah so because then because right now John Cena is
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: tied with Flair.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah that is the WWE record.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah that the Yeah, the the the WWE
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: record is the w W record is Yeah, like it
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: it storyline wise, that makes sense, and and scene is
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: not winning any more.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: World titles as far as we know.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as far as I don't see do you do?
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: You do you think that he will break the record
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: with him next year? And if so, I'll get I'll
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: throw you another curve ball. If so, who's he taking
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: off of? Gunther or Cody?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: And right now Cody is a too has helped about
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: for two hundred and sixteen days.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a hard a part of me, I mean,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: it'd be cool to see it, but a part of
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: me would almost rather him win an Intercontinental title because
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: he's never won that title.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Just so he can be a Grand Slam champion, right
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and Triple Crown Okay, yeah, because he's a Triple Crown champion.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: He's not a trip crown.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: He's not.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: No that they right now they do not recognize the
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: United States as part of the Triple Crown.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I had no idea about that.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: So unless they've changed something, I'm not aware of it,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: and they haven't because other people would be recognized, but
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: they're not. He So you need WWE title, the Intercontinental
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: title and tag ting.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Title, so he's considered. So Johnson is considered a Grand
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Slam champion, right, he's not.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: No, because he needs to Intercontinental. Oh my gosh, he's
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: missing that one Intercontinental to be both a triple crown
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: and a Grand Slam.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah you heard it here first, folks, I
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: didn't not see.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know, So I would kind of rather
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: see him win that Intercontinental title to get that accolade.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: That's the one actually he really does not have. Yeah,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: so I mean rather three accolades.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's it's like it's packaged deal three
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: and one.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: So I was gonna say, the reason we know they
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: don't count the United States is because if they did,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: braun Strowman would be a uh triple crown. He's not
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: true true, he's held the Universal title, he's held the
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: United States. He's hell attag title, which also means they
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: don't count the Universal as well for the triple crown.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: H Yeah.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: See, I don't know. That's strange, Like it feels like
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: to me, with a triple crown, you need to have
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a world title, mid court and a tag title.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I think during the first brand split that was the case,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: and minus the US title. I think they counted both
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: world titles, just not the US title. But yeah, I
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: don't know either.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: That's one thing.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: It's not dispewed though, is John cena is sixteen times
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: in w W E.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like he's not. There's there's no no discrepancy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, none,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: there's none of those. We won't be doing a hot
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: tag on John Cena sixteenth Timeeah. Well, I don't know.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: They might have won the ov W heavyweight that's not
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: considered world titles.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: No, No, I.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Think Flair has won like a heavyweight title here and
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: they have. Those weren't world titles. They were just like
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the top title of that specific little territory.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And that's and that's just like with the with the
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: GP heavyweight title. I remember you telling me, like that's
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: not recognized as a world title, Yeah, which is cool,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: which I never thought of like that, And that's crazy
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: in my mind. And now they're considered a world title
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: because it's been it's been combined with the Intercottinail title.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I mean it, fans could definitely view it as a
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: world that the previous heavyweight could definitely be viewed as
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: a world title. It just never, as far as i'm war,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: never actually officially had that recognition as being a world championship. Okay,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: that makes sense, so kind of Yeah, but I mean
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: right now, it's definitely Yeah, it's also not the same title.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Technically, No, no, it's it's it's not they combined. And
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's also it has absorbed the US heavyweight
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: title now, so yeah, it is, but.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I think the heavyweight they had they had the US
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and the UK title because now that's the global Yeah
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: that's true. That that so they have a world title
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and a global title. What's the difference.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I mean you could say the same thing with like intercontinental, yeah,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: because I mean continental would be like the continental US. Yeah,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: intercontinental you're getting into like international. Yeah, that's kind of
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: what the what is the actual hold one? I'm looking
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: up what the actual definition of intercontinental is so you
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: can go ahead and keep Yeah. Uh, I don't need
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the champion, I need definition.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I mean Flair he's a I would
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: say he's at the least an eighteen time world champ.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: At least and right here as far as a definition
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: for intercontinental related relating to or traveling between continents, so
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: technically by word choice would be a world title.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So I wrestling is weird at times, it really is.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I kind of hate it. This is going
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: to get a little off topic. I kind of hate
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: it when some indie promotions called their title a world title.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Like you're based in one area, one city, you don't
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: really go everywhere else. True, it should not be world
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: tal heavyweight titles, fine, or even just your promotion name.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: But don't call your title world title. But it's not
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: being defended elsewhere true or more than one area true.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess unless you do have a couple
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: in West Virginia do that?
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, and there's Does GCW consider their title a
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: world title?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Not one hundred percent sure on that?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on quick Google, you keep talking. Yeah, yeah,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: but they they do, Yeah, there is. There's is a
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: world championship.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, you should only be able to call
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: your title a world title if you've defended it outside
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: of the United States and actually in other countries. Maybe
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: not necessarily every single country, but like if your promotion
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: has talent from all over the world, then I would
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: say that'd be okay.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, interesting thing real quick about the GCW title. It
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: was combined actually with the JCW Championship JOGGLO Championship Wrestling. Y. Yeah,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: so it was uh because right here. It's his title
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: history JCW Championship from two thousand to two thousand and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: four and twenty thirteen to twenty fifteen, and then the
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: GCW World Championship from twenty fifteen to now. So there's
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: there you go.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: So the joglo became it or they had a unification,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: a unification, that's what it looks like, because now it's
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: it is. Was a GCWU exists before that?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: The GCW World Title?
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Or was it something else before that?
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It says for here other names JCW Championship,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's that's low key.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Is a former champion? That's crazy anyway, that's getting off topic. Yeah,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: but so in your opinion, Flair is an eighteen time world.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Champion eighteen nineteen at least.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, not so much what Flair is saying with
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the twenty one.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily disagree with it with twenty one, but
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I I kind of get what ww' is saying about
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: those couple of inta overlapping reigns. Yeah, so but he's
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: considering him separate.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, there you see, but.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: He is more than a sixteen time world Champion.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Well, see, like this is why we do the grill
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Out hot tag. You learned things on this on the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: on this, you know, special edition of the grill Out
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that you wouldn't really learn on the original version. The
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the the the the main show. I'll say that the
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: main show. This this is kind of like n x
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: T and the main show is the main roster. Yeah. Yeah,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: so yeah, that's that's the That's the best way I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: can put that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So I was looking at the gc W. It was
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Jersey Championship, then it became the g oh okay, so okay,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Game Changer Wrestling.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what that makes. That makes a lot
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: of sense because I think Game Changer Wrestling is based
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: out of Jersey, so it is. Yeah, they're based out
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of Jersey. All right, that makes a lot of sense. AnyWho,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts?
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: How many should a Rick Flair be clarified for?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Go ahead, what how many times do you think
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Rick Flair is a world champion? Emails the Girl at
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: ninety five at gmail dot com, or you can let
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: us know on Facebook. Go like the Facebook page Facebook
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: dot com. Forward slash the grill Out. Yeah, so that
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: all you got on the whoa yeah.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: All rights who tang.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Southwall Regional Wrestling is awesome. It is amazing, all right, ladies, gentlemen.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: That is the Grill Out hot Tag episode two ye
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: and the books exactly yeah. And until next time, bellow
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: wrestling fans, I have a good one. New Come, b
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: The New Come, the New Town