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S4E1 - Can Children Develop Internal Motivation Without Rewards? · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

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  You're listening to the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast
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  with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
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  Hi,
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  I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
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  The Kid Counselor.
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  This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I
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  answer real parenting questions about behavior,
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  emotions,
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  and the parent-child relationship.
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  In today's episode,
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  I am answering a question from Renee.
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  But before we get into the question,
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  welcome to season 4.
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  For the past season,
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  we have been walking through the Parent
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  Companion for Play Therapy series together,
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  and I have loved hearing how many of you
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  have used those episodes to better understand your children
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  and the play therapy process and what your kids
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  need from you as they grow.
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  But now we are making a shift and season 4 is all about you.
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  So every week,
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  I will be answering real parenting questions
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  from parents just like you.
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  Questions about behavior,
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  emotions,
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  anxiety,
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  aggression,
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  sibling conflicts,
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  school issues,
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  everything in between,
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  parent struggles,
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  whatever it is.
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  But my goal is simple.
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  I really want you
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  to better understand what's going on beneath your child's behavior,
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  so that you can parent with more confidence and connection.
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  So,
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  if you have a question,
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  I wanna hear from you.
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  As always,
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  you can email me at brenna@thekidcounselor.com
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  or call and leave a message
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  at our hotline number,
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  which is in the States,
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  813-812-5525.
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  So,
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  let's jump into today's question from Renee.
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  And this is about
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  her daughter,
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  eight year old,
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  who struggles with being asked to do something such as
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  getting dressed,
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  setting the table,
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  etc.
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  and
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  working through things like encouragement.
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  And choice giving.
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  So let's read parts of the email and then we'll dive in together.
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  I've been focused on building her internal motivation,
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  her internal resolve that says,
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  yes,
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  I can do hard things.
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  I can take small steps if it feels overwhelming,
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  but I know what's expected of me and my family,
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  and I can do it.
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  She struggles with ADHD and is also highly gifted.
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  I can handle all the other things,
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  but I'm most interested in this one underdeveloped muscle,
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  slowly turning the objection to,
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  wait,
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  this is silly.
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  I plan to eat,
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  so I need to set the table.
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  I love school.
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  Let's go,
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  etc.
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  After years of rewards or choices,
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  or you choose not to,
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  I'm done.
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  At the end of the day,
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  this is an expectation in our family,
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  and I do not give rewards or punishments.
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  This is my expectation for you and our family,
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  such as getting dressed in the morning,
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  taking a bath,
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  etc.
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  I will be here for assistance if you need it,
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  but you are capable,
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  you're capable of doing hard things like putting clothes on,
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  capable of speaking about how you feel.
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  And work through it with each step,
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  getting you closer to your goal.
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  If we get a tardy,
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  that's OK for a bit because we're going to learn how
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  to do this while also being supported from the sidelines.
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  My issue is,
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  don't choices for these basic human tasks
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  inherently teach a child that external things
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  are the catalyst,
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  and one must have an external consequence in order to be motivated to take action.
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  My take is that I want to slowly and deliberately build internal motivation,
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  giving small victories to reach the goal in the end.
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  I feel that relying on choices for some of these basic tasks,
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  which are external consequences,
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  undermine the child's ability to carry the small weight of motivation for one task
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  and then the small weight of motivation for the next one.
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  I need help with internal motivation building,
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  and I believe I've reached a point that
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  I don't necessarily think choices for basic tasks
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  are the way to build the muscle in my twice exceptional daughter.
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  All right,
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  Renee,
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  thank you so much for the question.
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  Actually,
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  kind of a little bit of a different question that I'm used to getting
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  because you have actually been
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  implementing child-centered play therapy principles.
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  I know you've been working with a child-centered play therapist as well.
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  And so this is a little bit of a different question,
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  but I'm thrilled to talk about this.
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  So,
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  here's one of the premises of choice giving.
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  So,
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  you've been talking a lot about choices,
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  and I understand
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  you're not sure that choices make sense for basic tasks.
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  I'll dive into that in a moment.
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  But I want to make sure that we're aware of the premise of choice giving.
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  It is
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  One,
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  a returning of responsibility.
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  Meaning
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  son daughter child of mine.
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  This is your responsibility.
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  This is completely up to you.
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  You get to decide how this goes.
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  So that's one point of choice giving.
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  The second point of choice giving.
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  is that we are giving power and control
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  to a child
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  that feels powerless
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  and lacking control almost always.
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  When we give a child a choice,
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  those choices are mutually acceptable,
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  meaning
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  the child is OK with the choices and we are OK with the choices.
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  So,
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  there,
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  there's always kind of this notion that if we give a child a choice,
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  they just get to dictate everything.
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  No,
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  because we're establishing the parameters of the choice.
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  If a choice is not acceptable to you,
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  you don't provide that as one of the options to your child.
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  So there's a mutually acceptable component to this,
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  which is very powerful because you're OK with it and your child is OK with it.
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  But a child does not have control over anything.
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  They don't have power over anything.
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  Therefore,
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  you want to talk about an underdeveloped muscle,
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  Renee,
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  that is the underdeveloped muscle.
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  A child has never
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  practiced
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  making decisions.
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  A child has never practiced being in control
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  and therefore accepting the consequence
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  of that control.
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  This is something that we have to practice doing.
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  So,
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  when we provide choices,
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  we are helping a child feel empowered,
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  we're returning responsibility to the child,
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  and interestingly enough,
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  I know you,
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  you've been saying in this email,
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  you want to help with internal motivation.
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  When we provide choices to a child.
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  It actually does inherently motivate them,
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  not in the way that you think though.
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  So,
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  let me get to the 3rd point here.
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  When we provide choices,
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  What we're communicating to a child is,
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  you're going to
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  weigh this out
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  based on your experience and your feelings.
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  So let's dive into this for a second.
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  Kids are not rational.
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  Renee,
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  your 8 year old,
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  is nowhere close
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  to abstract reasoning.
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  They're not cognitive.
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  They're not rational.
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  They're not logical.
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  They don't reason
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  They are wholly
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  experiential
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  and emotional.
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  So,
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  trying to get a child to think
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  in your examples.
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  This is silly.
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  I plan to eat.
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  Of course I'll set the table.
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  That requires abstract reasoning.
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  I love school.
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  Let's go to school.
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  That requires abstract reasoning,
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  and your daughter doesn't possess that until about the age of 13.
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  No child does.
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  So she's,
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  she's kind of just over the halfway mark,
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  Renee.
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  So you have quite a while until she develops abstract reasoning.
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  In the meantime,
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  here's what all of our children are going through.
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  I feel this really big feeling.
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  I'm experiencing this really big thing,
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  and it's going to dictate all of my behavior.
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  So,
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  I don't want to set the table.
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  I wanna keep reading my book.
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  I don't want to get ready for school.
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  I want to sleep in.
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  It feels good to sleep in,
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  it feels good to read a book.
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  I don't want to come in to eat dinner,
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  I'm playing with my friends outside on the trampoline.
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  Trampolines are awesome.
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  I just want to stay out here.
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  It has nothing to do with motivation in the sense of
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  my brain is going to tell me that I need to do it because it makes sense in this moment.
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  They're not reasonable.
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  So here's what choices do in the way of internal motivation.
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  It conditions a child
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  to weigh the consequences.
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  So,
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  let's unpack that for a second.
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  Abstract reasoning
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  upwards beyond 1313,
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  1415.
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  The emotions and the experiences are still there.
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  I don't wanna
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  come in and set the table.
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  I wanna keep reading my book.
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  But the brain is going to say,
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  yeah,
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  but you're just gonna get in trouble if you don't go set the table,
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  so just go set the table.
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  There's your abstract reasoning.
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  With a child being given choices
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  creates the same outcome,
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  but it's through conditioning.
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  It's always about what makes them feel the best.
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  It's not because their brain reasons
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  through,
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  you're gonna get in trouble,
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  so you might as well just go set it.
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  No,
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  the experience
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  and the conditioning is.
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  Getting in trouble,
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  getting grounded,
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  getting punished,
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  losing friend time tomorrow
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  is way worse.
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  Than just going in and setting the table.
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  So I'm just gonna go in and set the table because
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  that is less awful
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  than getting in trouble like last time.
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  It's a conditioned response.
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  Let's go back to Pavlov's dogs.
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  By the way,
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  I'm not likening your children to dogs.
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  I just want to give an illustration of conditioning.
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  So,
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  Pavlov's dogs.
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  I ring a bell
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  I give them food
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  They salivate when they get food.
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  Eventually,
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  just the sound of the bell
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  causes the salivation.
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  Why?
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  Because it has been conditioned.
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  Same thing with choices.
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  I have lost privileges so many times,
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  and I really hate losing privileges.
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  So I'm not going to lose privileges anymore.
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  There's no cognitive function going on.
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  It's a conditioned response.
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  She's 8.
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  So there's no
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  lesson that needs to be taught.
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  There's no rule that needs to be imparted.
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  There's no expectation that she's going to think her way through this.
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  She can't.
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  Developmentally,
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  they're not there.
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  So by giving choices,
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  ironically,
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  it actually does build internal motivation
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  if for the sake of avoiding the more negative outcome.
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  I don't want
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  to lose
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  TV time tonight,
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  so I will go set the table.
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  And when you say that you feel like external things are the catalyst.
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  There's always
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  things involved in scenarios in our lives.
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  So there's always a catalyst,
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  there's always a thing,
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  you know,
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  a lot of our decisions,
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  even as adults.
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  I could stay up late,
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  but then I'll be tired tomorrow.
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  That's a thing,
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  that's a catalyst for the outcome.
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  So that's actually a very normal part of life,
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  and I think it's actually healthy for a
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  child to understand that actions have consequences.
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  You know,
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  I've been saying 10 phrases to my son since he was 2 years old,
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  and I still,
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  at 1615,
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  I still say
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  those 10 phrases to him at night,
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  and one of them is actions have consequences.
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  He has heard that phrase thousands and thousands of times.
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  Why?
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  Because I want him to understand the weight of decisions.
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  And for children before they developed abstract reasoning.
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  Their only deciding factor
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  is how am I going to feel.
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  If this feels better than that,
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  I'm going to do this.
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  Experiential emotional decision making.
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  So,
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  although I understand that you don't think choices for basic tasks are
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  something that's easy for your twice exceptional daughter,
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  I think maybe what's happening is she's been given choices
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  but has not been given if then choices.
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  So I'm not exactly sure what your choice giving process looks like at home,
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  Renee,
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  but I suspect that maybe we're not getting to ultimate choice giving.
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  So,
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  daughter,
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  if you choose
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  to be
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  Ready for school
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  at 8:00 a.m.
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  You choose
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  this positive outcome.
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  If you choose not to be ready at 8:00 a.m.,
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  you choose this negative outcome.
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  Which do you choose?
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  And
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  over time,
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  the child's going to experience either the positive outcome,
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  which will reinforce the positive behavior,
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  or she's going to experience the negative outcome,
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  which is going to reinforce not having the negative outcome,
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  so she's going to change her behavior.
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  And again,
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  it's a conditioned outcome.
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  So,
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  I hope that that gives a little bit more perspective,
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  Renee.
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  I do understand that
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  you are frustrated with like the standard choices,
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  but she's 8,
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  she's young,
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  developmentally,
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  she's not there yet.
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  And over time,
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  this system does work.
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  We have studies
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  galore
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  that talk about
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  the intrinsic motivation
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  and internal locus of control that is developed
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  through returning responsibility,
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  encouragement,
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  and choice giving.
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  So we do have empirical support for this method that
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  that does produce longitudinal outcomes
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  are the things that you want.
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  So,
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  stick to it.
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  If you have follow-up questions,
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  please reach out to me.
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  I'd love to hear from you.
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  And
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  for the rest of you,
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  you know,
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  no question is too small,
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  no question is too insignificant.
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  If you have a question about
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  Behaviors,
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  if you have a question about emotions,
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  if you have a question about your parenting,
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  if you have a question about development,
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  anything related to you and your child and your parent-child relationship,
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  please reach out.
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  I would love to hear from you,
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  brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
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  I love y'all.
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  Keep loving on your kids.
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  We'll talk again soon.
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  Bye.
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  Thank you for listening to
• 13:43
  the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
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  For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
• 13:50
  please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.