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Prisoners of Hope · Outside Issues

• 0:00
  Speaker A: If you will allow me, I want to travel back in time. Eight days. Game 4. 9 minutes and 33 seconds left in the fourth quarter. The Knicks are down 20. The analytics guys, the sports betting companies, the pundits who watch from far away, they do what they do. They run the numbers. They calculate the odds. They write the Knicks off. They give the Spurs a 99.6% chance of winning the game, a 99.6% chance of tying up the series 2 2. Of reclaiming the momentum with the next game in San Antonio, a 99.6% chance of silencing the Garden, of another year of watching and waiting. But there is one thing that the pundits just don't get about this team, that they just don't get about this city. It is in that 4% that we go to.
• 1:01
  Speaker B: Welcome to Outside Issues with Audrey and Patrick.
• 1:05
  Speaker C: Happy Pride in, in. In downtown Seattle. Everywhere in Seattle. It's all rainbows and it's, It's a fantastic thing to see. Seattle goes all out for Pride Month. But then we have the World cup coming up where. There's where our mayor, who's. I really like her, she's actually a democratic socialist. She did say that, like, there's no cars allowed around the. The area, so cars will be banned on certain streets. And people are just up in arms about it. You have to, like, take a bike or you have to take a scooter or something to get to the World Cup. I don't think you can park or anything like that. There's satellite parking lots with shuttles, and
• 1:47
  Speaker B: that's probably like, That's a good thing, though, right? Or so that. But that has to do with the World cup, not pride, necessarily.
• 1:52
  Speaker C: Right, Right. Yeah. The World Cup's coming up, and then pride. Well, pride. Pride is like, in Seattle is just this bunch of, like, happy decorations, happy celebr. Pory decorations. Just nothing but joy. And then we have the World Cup. That's going to be stressful for commuters. So that's the hap. That's, that's the haps in Seattle over here. But yeah, Pride Month is, is a big, is a big deal.
• 2:17
  Speaker B: I saw the most beautiful clip it was going around of, like, Heath Ledger doing press for Brokeback Mountain and that
• 2:26
  Speaker C: on your Instagram story.
• 2:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but I, I just thought it was. I was, I loved how eloquently you put it about, like, you know, the way that one human being loves another, you know, is like, it's a beautiful thing. Everybody should be able to love who they want to love because, you know, they are just as entitled to that, to have that, to that connection as I am to my, you know, boring ass, hetero, you know, connection, you know,
• 2:53
  Speaker C: and you know, a lot of people who are anti trans, which I just don't understand that either. How can you be an anti person will claim that, you know, being transgender is a mental illness and it's not. It was, it was classified in the DSM. We're currently have. We currently have the DSM 5, which is, you know, the diagnostical guide of mental disorders, if you will. And to. The DSM 5 came out like maybe about 13 years ago or something, maybe a little less. But the DSM 4 had not gender dysphoria, but I think gender identity disorder written in it. Okay. And so people will still run with that outdated, like that antiquated diagnosis and say, well, I, you know, I just don't like. Or I don't accept trans people because they don't have a mental illness and they're not getting treated. And it's like, gender identity has nothing to do with mental illness. Gender dysphoria, euphoria has nothing to do with mental illness. It has to do with your identity. And so I think a lot of people are still in that mindset of, look, you know, there's something wrong with you when it's just, you know, you were born in the wrong body. You.
• 4:10
  Speaker B: Right. And there's something. And it's funny, that assessment of like, there's something wrong with you. Right? It's like, don't they realize what they're just saying is, could you just be different to make me feel better about what it is that I'm seeing? You know, it's not about their comfort, it's not about their well being. You know, like treating it is just about, can you please just fit into, you know, please remind me, make me feel like it's the 1950s, please. You know, I just really want to feel like it's the 1950s and you know, I'm going to be really anxious if I don't. And you know.
• 4:40
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's your mental.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's about you, dude.
• 4:43
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's your generalized anxiety disorder that
• 4:47
  Speaker B: I. Yeah, that sounds like. Right, it's like, sounds like you've got a mental illness you need to be treating somehow.
• 4:51
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And that's what I call it transphobia. You know, like people are genuinely scared of trans people. And I just, that's another thing. I just, in my human brain don't under. I Can't comprehend it. Same as, you know, being a normie. It's, it's hard to comprehend. But I, I understand some of the data based on that antiquated diagnos. But it's like, how can you be so hateful and afraid of somebody who just is themselves if you're not a serial killer, if you're not like committing crimes because of your transness. Like nobody commits any crimes because of your transness. So why are you so afraid? If you're afraid of crime somehow, which. Yeah. Guess everybody is afraid of crime then. Do you think these, all of these people are criminals like Nancy Mace does? Who.
• 5:54
  Speaker B: Well, she says a lot of these people. See and then that's the thing I think half of before talking about Republican politicians, you know, or even some, you know, Democrat, cynical Democrat politicians who espouse anti trans views. You know, like half of them, half of them don't even give a, you know, they just know that there's a base that does and they're just saying the words. I believe in the right of every person to self determination and to like actualize like a vision for themselves with the limited time they have on earth that like fits their own definition of beauty or you know, like just like, I don't know, we all have this image of like, oh, like this is where I want to get my life. The most recovered, strongest, smartest, you know, after I've done the work and, and whatever. And you kind of imagine yourself as being like on some pinnacle or whatever and they're like, and then like your life becomes like a journey towards getting to somewhere on that road. Right. And so I feel like, I look at gender identity is like, well, if you're born, you know, a boy, you know, and you see yourself as a girl, then you should be able to actualize that, you know. And like, you know, that's your, becomes your journey. And if we really believe about freedom, you know, if we really believe about like what is, what's all this money for? What's all this progress and all this, this, this knowledge and you know, it's, it's, it's to help us become who we want to be and you know, on, on this, in this world. And, and so like I, I, you know, I, when I look at, you know, somebody like transitions or somebody's taking the hormones or you know, somebody's wearing the clothes or you know, somebody changes their, you know, their pronouns and you know, I think it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, it changes their name. It's like oh my God. Now you're just like, you know, closer
• 7:42
  Speaker C: to being yourself then you are yourself. You've got nowhere else to go but up. I mean in our society tries to push them down but the only way that once, once somebody realizes that their, you know, their gender identity is something that was supposed to be happening at birth, but it's, you know, I'm acting, you know, I'm, I was born male, I'm actually female, I feel like a woman. Then, you know, the only way to go there from good, go from there is up and to better yourself and to understand yourself as that gender. And we should have a society that lets people do that and be free to do that openly. But unfortunately we have so many people who are transphobic and not understanding and then the politicians that want to make people put on, take off their pants in the bathroom to show their genitalia. It's disgusting. My thing is when people use the point men and women's sports because that's like, you know, I feel like that's the last resort for people to try to knock the trans people down is like, you know, you know, men, because they're biologically male, they can do better than the women and everything. It's like, so you're going to police like a high school football game or a high school basketball game. You know, hopefully women get their own football teams pretty soon mainstream. But you know, say like women's cross country or something like that and you know, oh well, a male has more endurance or something. Who fucking cares? You're going to police a high school cross country game like who cares? Who fucking cares? This person, this student or this person competing is a girl or is a woman. That is what they have transitioned into. So put them in the correct bracket. It's just, I, I don't, I don't understand and I feel like it's a last ditch effort from the other side to get us to be like concerned about trans people.
• 9:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's what, that's the thing they found that kind of worked, you know, because for the most part broadly people don't give a. Because of all the progress that was made in terms of gay marriage. And you know, like, I think people culturally, most people came to terms with, you know, with, with, with gay people and you know, their right to self determination. So inevitably, you know, there's going to be a large contingent within that that's going to be, you know, friendly and open to trans people or across the, the non, non binary spectrum. So yeah, the, you Know, the concern over fairness in sports became the vector through which they were able to, like, activate people's bigotry. So, yeah, it helps that I'm not a big sports guy, you know, I'm like, the wrong guy to talk to about, you know, anything. Sports pretty much. But. But I categorically. I just, you know, just like, with waste, fraud and abuse and government spending. My dad. My dad was getting into that a little bit. It's like he will. He will hate Elon Musk like I do, and. And despise what Doge did, but then he feels he has to attaboy this, like, this principle of rooting out, like, you know, the freeloaders, you know, in. In government or, you know, some people are just there. Some people are taking home too much money. Nurses are taking home too much money at the end of the year, and I'm just like, no, they're not. You know, and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nurses. It's like. I think he was. My dad was telling me that nurses in California, he read somewhere, were taking home, like, like 80 or 100 grand a year or something like that, like, on average. And I was like, good. That's a hard job.
• 11:43
  Speaker C: Deserve.
• 11:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, they're working and I mean, and especially in California with the cost of living, it's like, wages need to go. Need to meet the cost of living. You know, I mean, that's like. And when that's way out of balance, then you've got a real problem. And that's where we're at right now. And don't want to get. Don't want to get a. Make too much of a digression, but just making a point that, like, you absolutely do not need to attaboy these people or kind of like, do that centrist thing of like, well, maybe. Maybe there's a point, you know, or maybe I can meet them in the middle on this. It's like, no, when you're going out of your way to target a vulnerable population and, you know, get them to kill themselves and deny the medical treatment. I don't give a. What your reasons are. You know what I mean? Like, you know, somebody. If. If we want to talk at a much later date once, like, this damage has been undone a little bit about sports, then we can have that conversation. But until then, you know, I want to just be. I want to be a rock. Like a stump. I want to be a rock, like, just immovable. I don't give a shit. Fuck you. You know what I mean? No, atta boys, no attaboys until, you know, we take care of some of these people that you fucked up.
• 12:49
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker B: You took some time off work to recharge and now you've been back maybe two to three months. How is it?
• 12:57
  Speaker C: It's still going. I've realized that the work that I do is very physically and emotionally draining. And I have to, even though I had a medical break, I still have to sometimes do the bare minimum in life, you know, just show up. And that seems to be working for me and my maintenance of stress level. I've been, quite honestly, pretty stressed. But that's just a result of a lot of, I guess you could say PTSD stuff where my system's always on hyper alert, thinking the other shoe is going to drop, a lot of anxiety. But once, you know, I try to, I try to therapize myself and get to the point where it's like, okay, well what's, what's the proof that you're not a shitty clinician? Okay, this, that, the other thing. Well, what's the proof that you are a shitty clinician? Then you try to think and you're like, I can't really think of anything.
• 13:58
  Speaker B: So is that what your, Is that what your negative self talk tells you, that you're a shitty clinician?
• 14:02
  Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, it always tells me I'm a shitty clinician.
• 14:06
  Speaker B: What's it, what's its evidence?
• 14:09
  Speaker C: It doesn't have any. I mean, I don't want to sound like tooting my own horn, but it doesn't really. Yeah, I'm not a shit clinician. I need to like, recognize that because I know I've, I've helped a lot of people. And so I'm glad that I'm starting to realize that a little bit without some external proof. But the negative self talk is always, you're a shit clinician. Your clients are looking at you dumbfounded. Like, what the. What is this saying? Like, a lot, a lot of stuff just being like imposter syndrome type shit. Like, what am I doing here? Am I even good enough to be here? I talked to my supervisor about imposter syndrome the other day and it was, it was a good conversation.
• 14:58
  Speaker B: What was the. So would you say that social work, is it more head or heart oriented? Because I know it's both, but like, what do you feel it requires you to summon? You know, like, more often than not. Is it, is it just a heart connected empathic thing or is it real, real clinical, like nitty gritty?
• 15:22
  Speaker C: You know, it's funny because it starts out with the heart. You know, a lot of people who are social workers have been through a lot of shit themselves and.
• 15:31
  Speaker B: Like yourself.
• 15:32
  Speaker C: Like myself. Yeah. And so I think that a lot of the times you start out with your heart because you just want to help people. That was. That was my realization early in sobriety. I was just sitting on that sobriety living so sober living couch, and I was like, I want to be a social worker. I want to help people who are in my situation. And it's still the same. And it. You just want to pour your. Like. Like you were saying that empathy. You just want to pour your heart out into everybody and, like, give every last drop to people. And then the head comes in to do the work that the heart is trying to tell you to do, if that makes sense. It takes a good balance of. Of that, I guess, administrative head shit that you gotta do. Like, you know, pulling yourself sometimes out of, like, corporate mindset. Sometimes if you're working with an organization, you kind of have to just focus on the person.
• 16:29
  Speaker B: So is the burnout or the stress. You didn't say burnout. But, like, now that you're back at work, does that come more from the corporate side or from the trying to
• 16:37
  Speaker C: help people's side without saying too much? It comes from a systemic side. Like when we were talking with Seth about certain things, you know, we have to have these, like, you know, these place these things in place so people can get care. And sometimes the administrative and. How do I phrase this? The. A lot of, like, unpaid sort of tasks that you do that help people can get caught up in that heart work. But it's a systemic thing. Like if you were independent, like an independent clinician, which I never want to be. Just to make clear. Everybody, Everybody.
• 17:20
  Speaker B: How come? How come, though?
• 17:21
  Speaker C: I think I'm meant for something bigger. I think I'm meant for something that's going to drive systemic change and beyond. More of the, like Seth, like the policy end of things with social work and crisis social work. I thrive in crises.
• 17:36
  Speaker B: All right. Another. Another way to say independent is private, right? You don't want to be private, right?
• 17:41
  Speaker C: Yeah. Private practice. Absolutely not. That's. That. No, absolutely not. I.
• 17:47
  Speaker B: Because. Because it's. It's a matter of just being accessible to the types of clients that really need you.
• 17:52
  Speaker C: Right, Right. Plus, it's. I. I, as much as I love being a clinical social worker, as much as I absolutely adore my clients and everyone I get to meet, I want to make a systemic change. I want to make a Broader change, like a macro change. I'm very happy to help people doing micro social work, as in, like, clinical therapy. I just, like, get this overwhelming feeling of, like, I was sort of, like, meant for something bigger. So maybe, like, you know, one day I'll own my own domestic violence crisis center and then, like, see a couple of people on the side. Because I would. I would love to see people on the side. I just wouldn't like to make it my whole identity of as a private practice. That's kind of not where I saw myself when I went into social work.
• 18:42
  Speaker B: That would be incredible. Domestic violence crisis center, Is that one of your ambitions?
• 18:47
  Speaker C: That is. That's like a reach ambition. Like, I would love to open up something like that or do something huge like that. Who knows what's in store for the future? But for right now, I'm just, you know, helping individuals and helping them get through what they can. Sometimes it's just a listening ear. I had somebody tell me the other day, oh, I just really like talking to you. And I was like, that actually really warmed my heart because when I feel like a shit clinician and someone says, I like talking to you, I'm like, okay, all right, that's good. So that's.
• 19:25
  Speaker B: That's kind of like the fundamental thing.
• 19:27
  Speaker C: Right, Right, right. But yeah, so with either. With social work in general, we get paid very horribly, and we also put in the most humanitarian work you could think of. And, you know, it's. It causes burnout. It causes emotional vicarious trauma, you know, from hearing people's stories causes. It causes you to reevaluate what you're doing and what your life is about. But, yeah, I. I genuine. I genuinely like talking to a lot of people. I'm an extrovert, so I can always find something to say.
• 20:10
  Speaker B: You know, it's. I've never heard you describe yourself in that way, but yeah, you're an avowed out and proud extrovert, huh?
• 20:18
  Speaker C: I am. And the. The shitty thing is, though, with burnout and stress, it can make me feel like an introvert because I'm trying to conserve your body's like, trying to conserve your energy as much as possible. And so, like, you know, when you have a. You have a social event or something like that or whatever, you often have to be like, look, like, I. I can't make it. I need to rest. And there's a lot of resting involved and, like, defining what that rest is. For me, a lot of it is right at this moment because the stress has been so severe. In the past several months. That or the past year. That, you know, right now for me is staying in bed on a beautiful, sunny Washington day, which sucks, but it's. It is what it is and I'm fine with it.
• 21:09
  Speaker B: But staying in bed, See, I don't know. To me, that sounds really nice.
• 21:13
  Speaker C: Oh, God.
• 21:14
  Speaker B: You can always just open the curtains for like a minute and, you know, notice that the weather's beautiful out there and just go back to sleep.
• 21:22
  Speaker C: How is your mental health? How's. How have you been dealing with your mental health?
• 21:27
  Speaker B: I still have difficulty just sitting with my feelings. I definitely noticed that. I think, you know, I took a cake for, as, you know, um, and you were so sweet about wishing me happy birthday, but I took a cake for eight years on June 1st. Yeah. And then this Monday, which I don't know what Monday was, it was like the 8th or 9th or something, but I went and I. To my home group because I'd been in Europe for the last three weeks and. And then I took my chip there and made my pitch kind of halfway about sponsorship. When I had my rock climbing accident. I, you know, I managed to not get re. Addicted to opiates in my recovery. I don't know how you've slipped that noose, but started sponsoring a friend of mine, you know, kind of like on the down slope of my recovery from that injury. And like, looking back, I think so that would have put my. The beginning of my sponsorship of him, you know, like at like year five or six or something like that. And I think looking back, that it's. That was instrumental in keeping me recovering because it's just important, I'm noticing, to like. Because I think things do change, like your. Your life changes structurally if you stay off drugs and alcohol and especially if you're working some kind of program, however lazily or intermittently. Like your life just has a hard time growing mold in the way that it used to. And you know, your life just starts to look so much different. I'm sure you can attest to that than it did before. But what does that mean? Is it now that it's looking so different, you start to forget what, you know, what it. What, what it was like, or. I mean, I'll just speak for myself. Like, I. I remember it vividly and it's like this dark cloud, you know, that like, I can access whenever I. But like, for my addictive voice, you know, it's important to always be like, you know, in. In contact with that voice, in conversation with it and kind of like, letting it know what its place is, which is, end of the table, buddy. You're not getting up. You're not. You don't get to direct my actions and then reaching for solutions someplace else. And I think just like, having somebody who was really at a kind of bottom that I was at and being able to. Having an opportunity to go through the steps with him and I'll just, like, call myself out, like such a shitty, like, step, follow step, like the program that I worked and like, the, the reading and the memory, the retention of, like, the prayers and things like that. Like, terrible. Like, I've just, you know, this. I'm not. Again, you're. You're. You know, you went to a lot of school to do what you do, so I imagine you're pretty good at it. But, like, I'm just kind of very. Fake it till you make it school of like working the steps and. And suiting up and showing up. But I learned. And I learned better. I'll come up with a better sense later. But I learned better sitting with him and reading it all over again. And like, that, I think is just kind of all that sponsorship is really. Or that's like, primarily what it is, is that, you know, it's a. You're a friend or a peer who's just maybe got a little more time a little bit further down the path than the other person. And, you know, you are doing with him what was done, what you did with your sponsor, and then in doing so, they learn something and they get it to work their steps, but then you get to relearn it. And. Yeah, and so, yeah, so I was. I wasn't sure what to do. But I did call out my sponsor by name in the meeting because everybody knows him and everybody knows I'm sponsoring him, but usually, you know, usually, I don't know, you'll say, like, I worked with a sponsor, but I just said, hey, you know, like, here's my guy, and I'm just so proud of him. And I worked the steps with them and it kept me sober and I had nothing to do. I had very little to do with it. I think I said nothing. I got. I'd got nothing to do with it, but he's doing so well, and he's such a good guy now, and his life is, you know, as. As is mine, unrecognizable, you know, compared to, like, what it was just a few years ago. And. And then a guy came up to me after the meeting and asked if I could sponsor him, which Was really cool. And I met with him once. Yeah. Yeah. And he's. I think I like him too. I mean, I, you know, the thing as, you know, with, like working with people is like, you never know where it's going to, how long it's going to, that road's going to go or what's going to happen. You just got to take it like case by case. But. But great experience with them so far. And, and, you know, I think, yeah, I would like to, in my more of a civilian sense than you, you know, I want to keep doing the work of, you know, working with people and, and yeah, and I think that will be the thing that takes me into later and later of sobriety is like, yeah, I mean, if I step away from the rooms or something like that, I gotta make sure I'm working with somebody. I gotta like, stay connected to some kind of spirit of recovery. Maybe there'll be times where it's just you and I will be. Just be doing the show, you know, but this is a form of, you know, this is an offering to the recovery gods.
• 26:37
  Speaker C: So in a sense, when you said you've had a hard time sitting with your feelings, here's me in therapist mode. When you said you said a hard time sitting with your feelings, what.
• 26:48
  Speaker B: What does that mean, my negative self talk? I mean, because I'm ambitious, you know, about my stuff, you know, like, I, I'm trying to really get my writing. I don't even want to say my writing career going. I just want to get my writing craft going. Like, I want to be a better writer. And I don't feel, I feel like that's going very slowly. And, and so I, you know, I don't think I'm a very good writer. But like, I'm writing more now and I'm being faced with my writing regularly, which is the only way to get better. Right. But it's a very unpleasant process. So I'm agitated while I'm writing. I'm agitated when I'm not writing. I'm, you know, I. So I'll take any opportunity to not think about myself.
• 27:28
  Speaker C: Sitting in your feelings is hard and it's healing. That's what I always tell people is to. When you have those horrible feelings or that negative self talk, listen to it and honor it. Like, try to be friends with it is what I've been told. Like, try to acknowledge it. Like, where did you come from? Like, why, why, why are you talking right now? Like, and the classic, where do you feel that in your body and so sitting with negative feelings, in my opinion, is really healing, because otherwise. And in sobriety, we get to feel those feelings right where they're not covered by drugs or alcohol anymore. And so feeling all the good feelings, feeling all the bad feelings, sitting in all of that, I think is profound. And what actually gets you to a place of stillness, like you said, like, I'm not knocking on you for. For compartmentalizing and packing your schedule.
• 28:32
  Speaker B: Oh, I didn't think you were.
• 28:34
  Speaker C: No, no, no. It's a good distraction because there's. There's plenty of therapy modalities that, you know, promote distractions and being. Being of service and being useful. But it's at a. At a certain point when you run out of gas there, it's like, how can I be friends with myself? How can I talk to myself in a kind and compassionate way? And how can I honor this dreadful feeling that's coming towards me and inside of me? How can I somehow access that and repel it so I can be in that stillness? That's what I've experienced, and that's what I've experienced with people that I. I guess I can say heal, like, because I, you know, there's. I. I consider myself a healer. Somebody called me their healer, so. So I'm gonna just say I'm a healer.
• 29:29
  Speaker B: That's lovely. I. So being friends with it or, like, you know, finding some way of staying in touch with it, you know, whatever you want to call the negativity, the darkness, the. A discomfort, but just kind of, I don't know, trying to make some kind of peace.
• 29:46
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's exactly what happened. When I have those feelings, like, I've been having those feelings of. I'm a shitty clinician, I sit with it. I'm like, where. Okay, what. Where's this coming from? Is this coming from some traumatic situation that happened in the past? Is this coming from a very little interaction that I shouldn't be worried about kind of thing just right. Like, process it internally? Like, where is it coming from? What's it saying? What does it want you to do? What purpose does it serve for me so I can bring the good out? Cause I believe that every single thing in life is a lesson. And I think that. That I think the pain is the biggest lesson that we get to learn about. You know, I. I lost my job three years ago to a job that I really, really enjoyed. And that translates now sometimes into being very hypervigilant and being scared that I'm going to be let go for absolutely no reason. Or I'm going to be reprimanded for absolutely no reason. And sitting with those feelings like, where the is this coming from? Okay, yeah, now I remember how I got ambushed at my last job and then got let go for no explanation. So, you know, kind of where, where, where's this coming from? And how can I extinguish it? How can I prove myself wrong?
• 31:14
  Speaker B: Do you find yourself. When you kind of pass trip on all the things that happen, do you find yourself thinking more often, wow, people are just so, so kind and gracious and I've just gotten so many lucky breaks. Or is it more the opposite? Like, Jesus, people are, you know, is it colored, Is it colored more by their, your most, most negative experiences or the positive ones?
• 31:41
  Speaker C: I guess it's a little of both. Because when people are shitty or you have a bad experience, then it's nice to look at the good experiences and the good people, even though it's hard to in the moment. I had one time at my last job, or my, my job in LA as a domestic violence specialist, I was in a hospital helping somebody, being an advocate for somebody who had just gotten assaulted. And she said the most heinous thing to me. She said like, oh, dealing with you is worse than getting sexually assaulted. And I was like, damn, okay, like, But I had to sit with those feelings. I'm like, am I, like, worse? Am I worse than a rapist?
• 32:30
  Speaker B: Like, that was your, that was your Yelp review.
• 32:33
  Speaker C: That was my Yelp review. Is. I don't know what, I don't remember the circumstances. This was like, over. This is probably before COVID but like, yeah, I remember thinking like, wow, that, that's really harsh. And that's really damn. Like I, and, and how, how do I deal with this feeling? But then I'm like, I can appreciate all the, all the kind letters and all the kind postcards. Like, I get postcards, I get gifts from, from people I've worked with. And one lady made me. She started. It was actually kind of cool. She, we were. This was at my internship in grad school. We were, I was a domestic violence counselor and we had worked together for a whole year. And she went from, you know, being in this dark place to opening up her own cleaning supplies line. Like she made an organic like kitchen spray or something. And that's what she, that's what she gifted me at the end of my internship. And so, you know, from her own company, right? Yes. And so she was a really good example of how I change people's lives and how, you know, gift giving is sometimes a token of their appreciation instead of words of thank you for being there for me, which I appreciate. And words of affirmation are it's my love language.
• 33:59
  Speaker B: I've just noticed so many people cheering me on or so many people like, who for whatever reason find it important to like, take some time out to kind of like give me an atta boy. And I'm not saying this to toot my own horn about anything more. Putting the light on them and just being like, you know, that that's a positive mechanism. Like I, I try to do that with people, you know, when I see somebody who's really being a good helper out there, out there in the world, you know, like, I think the way that we honor that is we have to support it and encourage it. And you know, I just noticed because there's like, you know, the Donald Trump school of hard knocks is like, fuck everyone. You know, be out for yourself, lie to everyone, screw one over, because, you know, there is no God but me. The only way to navigate through the world is just by, is by taking. And you know, anybody who is taken from is a sucker and they deserved it anyway. And. But maybe it's just a reaction that more people are having. Like, I've never felt more despair at like the state of the world, you know, how things are organized. Or at the same time, I feel so much love for my neighbors.
• 35:10
  Speaker C: You know, I was, I was catching up on the news this morning and more promises and then unpromises from, you know, attacks on Iran and then like, let's do a peace talk and then,
• 35:23
  Speaker B: you know, it's so hard to follow, isn't it? It's really hard to follow and I do follow it, but it feels kind of like the worst game of baseball you've ever seen. It's just like they keep adding innings and like it's just crawling along and it's, it's baseball only. Thousands of people are dying and billions of dollars just being lit on fire.
• 35:41
  Speaker C: Right. I thought this was going to be a three week war as we were promised.
• 35:45
  Speaker B: And only on the weekends too. Right. That was the other thing to, to make sure the stock market is, you know, like, you know, manipulated and to, to benefit all those guys. Yeah, just only on the weekends.
• 35:57
  Speaker C: Elon Musk becoming the first trillionaire.
• 36:00
  Speaker B: You put a T on there. And I just feel like there's already just been growing sentiment, you know, across ideological lines, like negative sentiment towards the billionaire class, the Epstein class. Fewer of the usual stands Kind of coming out and saying like, you know what, you know, you, you gotta, but you gotta hate a guy just for being successful. You know, it's kind of taken on this grotesque proportion and you know, there's just no, like, there's no bullshitting anymore. It's like this is this, these are all gotten gains, you know, like no individual should have that much money.
• 36:32
  Speaker C: That's why I'm so grateful about our mayor, Bob Ferguson. Introducing the millionaires tax.
• 36:38
  Speaker B: Well, that's cool. Yeah, I, I'm. I'll never forget him. He's. First of all, Bob Ferguson sounds, it's. He's got like a, He's a good guy, right? You like Bob Ferguson?
• 36:47
  Speaker C: I like Bob Ferguson, yeah.
• 36:48
  Speaker B: But, but he seems like Mr. Feeney or something like, you know, I just get this vibe like I, I don't know what he looks like. But is, is he kind of like. Who was the guy who ran with Harris? Tim Walls? Does he have like a, like a, A high school basketball coach kind of energy?
• 37:02
  Speaker C: No, no, he's, he, he gives off the energy of like a retired. Well, not retired. He's pretty, he's middle aged, maybe a little older. Maybe like a AP bio teacher, like.
• 37:15
  Speaker B: Right. A little, A little less macho than the coach, but.
• 37:18
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, he's. He seems. He, he. He's subdued, I guess looking. But what. His content is powerful. He looks a little bit marsupial. I don't know how else
• 37:31
  Speaker B: he carried. He carries his AIDS around a little pouch on his.
• 37:36
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, he's got some, he's. He's got some facial features that are marsupial. But besides the point, I really enjoy, I'm really liking his policies. He also Dec. Made a declaration of a day dedicated to missing native and indigenous women, which is a huge problem nationwide and especially here because of all of the Native American tribes in the state. But God, the. When I see this news, it's. No, it's normally on Facebook and not Instagram, which I should go on more. But it's just tons of right wingers just hating Bob Ferguson. But they're all. If you know Washington, it's all on the east side. That's Trump land near Idaho and so.
• 38:22
  Speaker B: Well, yeah, it's a, it's like your state is a. In a, in this sense it's like California and that it's stratified or it's, or it's segregated and there's like a really strong right wing contingent as well as like a strong liberal contingent. It's not. Is it Purple.
• 38:39
  Speaker C: No, it's blue.
• 38:40
  Speaker B: It's blue. Okay.
• 38:41
  Speaker C: It's considered blue because of the population on the. On the west is so dense.
• 38:47
  Speaker B: Around the cities.
• 38:47
  Speaker C: Yeah, around the cities. Yeah. So that makes it blue, like, through and through blue. But if you go over to the east, then you'll probably hear some heinous stuff. I've heard some heinous stuff even, like, going a little, little bit east. I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, I thought I moved to, like, you know, nature mecca here with, like, you know, pride flags everywhere, but that's just. In the city. A lot of. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of Trump folks over on the east, which I'm glad I don't have to encounter, because who wants to deal with that?
• 39:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's been so long. It's been so long since I've had a conversation with somebody who supports Trump. Like, I've got some conservative friends that I don't talk to very much because I don't want to make time for them, let's be honest.
• 39:40
  Speaker C: But, like, who's a conservative? But, you know, I'm slowly. I don't want to say slowly indoctrinating him, but he's slowly getting into my points, which is great. He. He supports Ron DeSantis, which is an interesting choice.
• 39:58
  Speaker B: Well, you know, as. Okay, so in order to medicate that condition, he should have to hang out with Ron for 28 hours, and then he will immediately be disabused of that support.
• 40:10
  Speaker C: I know, I know. I hate to break it to him. Like, you know, he'll send me things like, oh, Ron DeSantis signed a bill for, like, no kill shelters or something like that, which is okay. All right.
• 40:24
  Speaker B: That's why not. Right?
• 40:26
  Speaker C: I'll take why not. But then also, at the same. On the same coin, it's Ron DeSantis and Ron DeSantis. And my eye is horrible because he opposes abortion and, and, and questions LGBTQ rights. Let's shift here from civil rights to no kill animal shelters. Like, good for you, Ron. But at the same time, let's. Let's think about civil rights.
• 40:52
  Speaker B: This was a lovely conversation.
• 40:54
  Speaker C: Very lovely. I wish you were in Washington.
• 40:57
  Speaker B: You watch, like, every once in a while, you'll watch, like, a Marvel movie or, like a big studio movie, right? With you, with your partner. You're going to see the Odyssey.
• 41:05
  Speaker C: He wants to see it, but, yeah, I think I'm going to see it, too. Yeah.
• 41:09
  Speaker B: Get your tickets. Yeah, get. Get your tickets. And it's going to be fun. It's. So I'm just going to out myself as being insane. I already have five sets of tickets for the. For the first month that comes out, so I'm going to be seeing it five times.
• 41:23
  Speaker C: Whoa.
• 41:23
  Speaker B: I know. Well, that's. See, that's my addiction, you know, it's just like, I get on the computer, I just start, ooh, the tickets are on sale. I got to go five times the first month it comes out.
• 41:32
  Speaker A: So.
• 41:32
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 41:33
  Speaker B: But anyway, you should see it. I bet. I bet everybody's gonna like it. It's just gonna be one of those movies like. Like Titanic or something like everybody goes to see.
• 41:41
  Speaker C: The last one I saw was Fantastic Four, and I enjoyed it.
• 41:44
  Speaker B: That was cool. That was kind of like if Mad Men was a superhero, you know, it had that really, like. I love the. The visual palette of it, you know, like the period, like the Jetsons cars and stuff.
• 41:57
  Speaker C: I loved. I loved the 60s montage and are not motif. Not montage. My words.
• 42:04
  Speaker B: Yeah. The motif. I wish. Okay, so Pedro Pascals, like, Like, he's got the lit. Like, I wish I was the type of man who had, like, the. The lip ratio. So I have a mustache like his because, like, some mustaches just look so good. And that's actually, like, what I remember most about that movie is mustache. All right, take care, Audrey.
• 42:25
  Speaker C: Bye.