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Mom Shoots 'Mouthy' Children, Claims She Saved Them · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: You know, some people go their whole life trying to
0:09
Speaker 1: have children. They'll pay thousands and thousands of dollars for
0:14
Speaker 1: fertility treatments to give birth. They will fly around the
0:19
Speaker 1: earth to try to adopt a baby. So it's really
0:24
Speaker 1: hard for most people to get their heads wrapped around
0:29
Speaker 1: a killer mom. I'm talking about none other than Julie Shinneker. Listen.
0:46
Speaker 1: Police say about seven o'clock Thursday night, Schenneker armed herself
0:50
Speaker 1: with a thirty eight caliber pistol she had just purchased
0:53
Speaker 1: over the weekend. They say she shot her son twice
0:57
Speaker 1: in the head in the family's garage, then and upstairs
1:00
Speaker 1: and shot her daughter in the back of the head
1:03
Speaker 1: while she was doing her homework. She did tell us
1:06
Speaker 1: that they talked back, that they were mouthy, and that
1:09
Speaker 1: she was tired of it. Detectives say Schenneker's mother contacted
1:13
Speaker 1: them from Texas Friday morning after receiving a disturbing email
1:17
Speaker 1: from her daughter and being unable to reach her. When
1:20
Speaker 1: they arrived at the house, they found her on a
1:23
Speaker 1: back patio covered in blood. They also found a note
1:27
Speaker 1: describing how she planned to kill her children and then herself,
1:31
Speaker 1: but somehow she miraculously lived while her two children Bow
1:36
Speaker 1: and Killis died at her hands. Before we go any further,
1:41
Speaker 1: I want you to hear Julie Shinneker speaking in her
1:46
Speaker 1: own words. Jaculates played the cut in its entirety. Cut fourteen.
1:52
Speaker 1: Listen to Julie Shinneker speaking anyway he hated shooting him.
2:08
Speaker 1: I hate it better better than what he said. But
2:12
Speaker 1: it's better, yeah, instead of them what it was? How
2:22
Speaker 1: are you going to do that? So how would you
2:27
Speaker 1: make them sit there? Though? Oh? So you leave the
2:35
Speaker 1: carboner while they're in the house. So her original plan
2:39
Speaker 1: was to murder both of her children by carbon monoxide.
2:43
Speaker 1: But her problem was when she would bring them home
2:45
Speaker 1: from school, they jump out of the car and go in.
2:47
Speaker 1: So she couldn't figure out, Wow, how can I kill
2:50
Speaker 1: them with carbon monoxide? I'll just shoot them instead. We
2:54
Speaker 1: were talking about a killer mom. Julie Schinnaker. She is
3:00
Speaker 1: no idiot. She was with the military as a linguist
3:05
Speaker 1: and advanced way up high in the military ranks. Married
3:11
Speaker 1: to a military guy who also had climbed the ranks,
3:15
Speaker 1: and he was away from home a lot, and reports
3:19
Speaker 1: are she resented that deeply that she had given up
3:23
Speaker 1: so much to raise these two children and perceived that
3:26
Speaker 1: he had not. Well. Now they're both dead, and when
3:31
Speaker 1: you hear the way they were shot dead, it's a
3:35
Speaker 1: story you'll never forget. With me an all star panel
3:38
Speaker 1: to make sense of it all. First of all, judge,
3:40
Speaker 1: trial Lawyer, anchor Court TV, Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcot
3:45
Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst to the Stars, joining
3:50
Speaker 1: us from LA. She's also the star of a new
3:52
Speaker 1: Netflix series Bleeding Empire, and you can find her at
3:56
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Renowned death investigator Joe Scott Morgan,
4:02
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
4:06
Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon, and star a Poisonous Liaison's program on
4:11
Speaker 1: The True Crime Network. But first to special guests joining us,
4:14
Speaker 1: Serena Fazzon. Serena Fazzon is a four time Amy Award
4:20
Speaker 1: winning TV anchor and reporter, and one of those Emmys
4:25
Speaker 1: was for getting the interview with Julie Schinneker Murder Mom,
4:33
Speaker 1: and Serena tells me that interview changed her life. You
4:38
Speaker 1: can find her at Serena Fazzon dot Media and she's
4:43
Speaker 1: got a podcast on the record with Serena Fazzon. Wow
4:46
Speaker 1: do you ever sleep? Woman? Let's just start with you, Nancy,
4:50
Speaker 1: Oh my god, let's just start with what happened here.
4:53
Speaker 1: I just have one question. I'm very curious about Serena
4:56
Speaker 1: Fazon when you spent all that time with kill her mom,
5:03
Speaker 1: Julie Shinker, what was her demeanor because she apparently has
5:07
Speaker 1: no regrets over what she did. Well, you know, when
5:10
Speaker 1: I first met her, Nancy, in that prison, she seemed
5:15
Speaker 1: to be she seemed to have regrets. It was when
5:19
Speaker 1: the cameras were turned off that she changed her demeanor.
5:22
Speaker 1: But as you started the show talking about how we
5:25
Speaker 1: would do anything, so many people would do anything to
5:29
Speaker 1: have children, I was obsessed with the case, for lack
5:33
Speaker 1: of a better term, for many, many reasons. But one
5:36
Speaker 1: of those reasons is because I had my daughter's thirteen now,
5:40
Speaker 1: but she was three at the time, and I really
5:43
Speaker 1: wanted another child. So I just couldn't imagine how someone
5:48
Speaker 1: could kill their two children, or how anybody could do
5:51
Speaker 1: anything like that. So I wrote to her in prison
5:55
Speaker 1: every month for four years, just wanting, you know, to
6:01
Speaker 1: hear what she had to say the prosecutors. Initially she
6:06
Speaker 1: pled not guilty, you know, and then trying to go
6:08
Speaker 1: by reason of insanity. It was very, very it was
6:16
Speaker 1: I will never forget those hours that I sent her.
6:20
Speaker 1: What was her demeanor? Was she lucid? She she was lucid?
6:25
Speaker 1: She was she was lucid. She seemed to be she
6:28
Speaker 1: would Her eyes were all over the place, though, you know,
6:31
Speaker 1: seem not to really connect answering these questions. Well, wait
6:36
Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute. Hauled on right there, uh
6:39
Speaker 1: Serena Fazan joining me, Emmy Award winning anchor and reporter.
6:45
Speaker 1: I put I've seen plenty of defendants on the stand.
6:47
Speaker 1: I didn't put them up. They went up on their own,
6:50
Speaker 1: and they looked everywhere but at me asking them questions too,
6:54
Speaker 1: which of course I loved because the jury was watching
6:57
Speaker 1: at the same time. I mean, when you don't want
6:59
Speaker 1: to ask her question, you look down up around. It's
7:03
Speaker 1: hard for me to look somebody in the eye an
7:06
Speaker 1: outright life. And that's a real tell. That's a nonverbal
7:10
Speaker 1: communication right there, when the person looks away when you
7:13
Speaker 1: ask them a question. Boy, When I asked the twins
7:16
Speaker 1: the question if they look away. I'm on it right then.
7:20
Speaker 1: But sadly they know my game, so they know how
7:23
Speaker 1: they know how to trick me. Guys, we are talking
7:26
Speaker 1: about this woman, a murder mom. There's no doubt about it.
7:31
Speaker 1: She shot both of her children. And these children, oh
7:35
Speaker 1: my stars, let me look up. All their accomplished was
7:38
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. Let's see the teen girl Killick Schinneker
7:42
Speaker 1: was an honor student. She had record time at high
7:49
Speaker 1: school track. She was outstanding as far as grades go,
7:55
Speaker 1: same thing. A highly popular sophomore. She never missed school.
8:00
Speaker 1: The only day that she missed school was the day
8:04
Speaker 1: her mother shot her dead dead. Her little brother Bo
8:08
Speaker 1: was a goalie playing middle school soccer. That's the spot
8:11
Speaker 1: in my son plays. That's not easy. I don't get it,
8:16
Speaker 1: but you know what, let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
8:19
Speaker 1: Take a listen. This is kill her mom, Julie Schinneker.
8:25
Speaker 1: What made you decide to do it this way? First? Bow?
8:29
Speaker 1: But I mean, were you bringing him back from pycer
8:32
Speaker 1: practice and he kissed you off? Do? Is that what happened? Yeah?
8:35
Speaker 1: Snip right, d just something you know? I don't happy
8:48
Speaker 1: you turn round came back. You know when did you
8:52
Speaker 1: when exactly did you shoot vote? Were you in the garage?
8:54
Speaker 1: A reading right? Who were you in your garage? Were
9:01
Speaker 1: you driving? Or so? Then you shot him? Where did
9:13
Speaker 1: you shoot him? First? Do you remember what we're sciting?
9:19
Speaker 1: I'm sorry? And then and then one I didn't do anything.
9:39
Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace, guys who are talking about
9:44
Speaker 1: a murder mom and hearing her describe what she did
9:46
Speaker 1: to her son Bow, a little boy in middle schooler,
9:52
Speaker 1: It's so upsetting to me because all throughout what she
9:56
Speaker 1: was saying, how many times have I picked the twin
10:00
Speaker 1: up from school? How many times have I picked up
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Speaker 1: John David from soccer? He'd sit beside me and the
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Speaker 1: car said, I mean, it was the highlight of my day.
10:08
Speaker 1: Before I go to doctor Bethany Marshall psychoanas joining us
10:12
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan and Ashley Walcott. I wanted to take
10:15
Speaker 1: a listen to more murder mom Julie Scheneker and then
10:20
Speaker 1: what happened after that? Okay? And then you went upstairs
10:31
Speaker 1: and that's when you confronted and less sad she didn't
10:38
Speaker 1: know you were there. Then in the head and I
10:45
Speaker 1: shot her in the back of the head in the mouth.
10:52
Speaker 1: Listen to this. When you shot her in the head,
10:55
Speaker 1: did she fall forward or anything? It's fall sideway. And
11:00
Speaker 1: then how did you shoot her in the mouth or before?
11:02
Speaker 1: Was she laying she was I'm still in a chair.
11:09
Speaker 1: I did to reach round? Did you shake it right
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Speaker 1: inside her mouth? You know? I didn't do the inside?
11:15
Speaker 1: Did no to from the outside? And shot? Yeah? Jack,
11:21
Speaker 1: I want to hear the rest of what she said
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Speaker 1: about her daughter, Kele. It's place, he said, when I don't.
11:26
Speaker 1: When I get out of here, I'm never gonna come back.
11:29
Speaker 1: And see. I came out behind her. What was she doing?
11:34
Speaker 1: From um? She was a homework on the computer. Yeah,
11:39
Speaker 1: he came up behind her his way, okay, And what happened?
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Speaker 1: I shot her in the bath of the head because
11:48
Speaker 1: she was running her mouth at you. Yeah, and then
11:51
Speaker 1: I shot her, I think, in the mouth. Why did
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Speaker 1: you Why did you want to shoot her in the mouth?
11:58
Speaker 1: Because anguously, you know, Doctor Bethany Marshall, I'm having the
12:07
Speaker 1: same reaction right now as I would have so often
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Speaker 1: in court when I would have to present evidence that
12:14
Speaker 1: was just unspeakable, and it leaves me almost numb with
12:23
Speaker 1: waves of nausea listening to her talking about shooting her
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Speaker 1: girl in the mouth. And I remember moments like that
12:33
Speaker 1: like that in court when then I'd have to continue
12:36
Speaker 1: questioning and I'd look out with the jury and they
12:38
Speaker 1: were would be just really just numb with what they
12:43
Speaker 1: had just heard and Chinnaker. But our job is to
12:47
Speaker 1: analyze the facts and evidence and try to make sense
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Speaker 1: of it. Did you hear her say she shot her
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Speaker 1: daughter in the mouth. She was already because she first
13:01
Speaker 1: shot her in the back of the head, but then
13:04
Speaker 1: she went up and shot klux again in the mouth.
13:08
Speaker 1: I heard it, Nancy. Nancy. I remember covering this case
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Speaker 1: ten years ago with you. Do you remember the images
13:18
Speaker 1: were so profound. Her husband was away on tour. She
13:25
Speaker 1: was so angry at her husband for not being home
13:30
Speaker 1: to take care of the kids. She sounded the way
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Speaker 1: she was sitting on the back porch covering blood, and
13:37
Speaker 1: during the interviews she sounded like she was trying to
13:41
Speaker 1: act crazy or drugged. But she's not crazy at all.
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Speaker 1: She's quite sane, Nancy. Her profile reminds me of a
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Speaker 1: particular type of patient who comes into my office who
13:54
Speaker 1: is very shifty, eyes all over the place, like our
13:57
Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning producer was talking about who is only
14:01
Speaker 1: attached to one person on the face of the planet,
14:04
Speaker 1: and that is themselves. They present in a peculiar kind
14:09
Speaker 1: of way as if the only thing that excites or
14:13
Speaker 1: interests them is their own internal world, their own imagination,
14:17
Speaker 1: their own thoughts about things. It's as if they're solipsistic,
14:21
Speaker 1: meaning that the outside world is completely cut off and
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Speaker 1: their own internal imagination and fantasies are enlivened. It's like there,
14:33
Speaker 1: it's like Horton, Here's who if the Doctor Seuss book,
14:37
Speaker 1: but the Who is their own internal world. They go
14:39
Speaker 1: further and further inside of their own thoughts and they
14:43
Speaker 1: impreciate all that about Horton, here's the Who in his
14:45
Speaker 1: own private world and her own private world. But what
14:48
Speaker 1: matters to me, maybe I'm a little bit more of
14:50
Speaker 1: a pragmatist, is what she insane at the time the act.
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Speaker 1: And clearly the answer to that is no. I interviewed
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Speaker 1: no the guy who sold her a gun. Let's pull
15:01
Speaker 1: that up, Jackie, the guy who sold her the gun,
15:05
Speaker 1: and he told me that she was in no way unsteady,
15:09
Speaker 1: that she was completely lucid, that she was sane. And
15:13
Speaker 1: while I've got you, Serena Fazan, isn't it true that
15:16
Speaker 1: she bought the gun just shortly before the two murders? Yes,
15:20
Speaker 1: and Nancy, she told me when I asked her that
15:22
Speaker 1: question in prison, she I asked her if she had
15:26
Speaker 1: any regrets for killing her children, and she said no.
15:31
Speaker 1: She says that she was trying to save them. Those
15:35
Speaker 1: were her words, she said to me. I just told
15:38
Speaker 1: up some of my interviews, and the full interviews you
15:41
Speaker 1: can still watch online. But she said, I know you
15:44
Speaker 1: hate me. Everyone here hates me. Okay, because Klee Simbo
15:50
Speaker 1: loved me. I told them that I loved them every day. Okay.
15:55
Speaker 1: Take a listen to cut our cut twenty. This is
15:58
Speaker 1: Gerald Tanzo, owner of Load Gun storey Shinneker bought the
16:02
Speaker 1: murder weapon. He's talking about the day she bought the gun.
16:06
Speaker 1: This is when he tells me, listen, So, when you
16:09
Speaker 1: sold Julie Shinneker the murder weapon, did you have any
16:13
Speaker 1: reason to believe she had a mental illness, that she
16:16
Speaker 1: was insane, that she was drunk or high, any reason
16:20
Speaker 1: you felt you should not sell her a gun? Not
16:23
Speaker 1: at all, not at all. In fact, did you find
16:27
Speaker 1: it unusual for a woman to be buying a gun?
16:30
Speaker 1: We sold guns to women every day. And again kind
16:35
Speaker 1: of a gun. What kind of gun did you say
16:37
Speaker 1: she bought? Was a Smith and Wesson bodyguard? And did
16:44
Speaker 1: she buy ammunition? She bought ammunition to correct when she left?
16:50
Speaker 1: What was her demeanor? She was very nice, very very good,
16:55
Speaker 1: very personable, smiling, happy. In fact, didn't she shake your
17:01
Speaker 1: hand when she left? That was on the day of
17:04
Speaker 1: the pickup. Yeah, that was on the twenty seventh, shook
17:07
Speaker 1: my hands and goodbye, and everything was fine. Straight back
17:10
Speaker 1: out to Serena Bazan joining us. Serena, how close in
17:14
Speaker 1: time does she get the gun actually physically get the
17:18
Speaker 1: gun to when she shot her children? Did? I believe
17:21
Speaker 1: it was just like three days before, perhaps something like that.
17:28
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember you about three days or less
17:31
Speaker 1: than a week before. And she claimed that the intention
17:37
Speaker 1: was for her just to use the gun on herself.
17:41
Speaker 1: That's what she first told the investiators, that that was
17:46
Speaker 1: her intention, but then she changed her mind. And you know,
17:50
Speaker 1: when you were talking about the kids being shot, one
17:52
Speaker 1: of the stories that continued. I mean, I just cannot
17:55
Speaker 1: picture this as all of us as most of his
17:57
Speaker 1: a parents. Little Bow was actually in the car tying
18:02
Speaker 1: his shoe right. He looked up at his mom and said, Mom,
18:09
Speaker 1: what's wrong, and that's when she shot him. That came
18:13
Speaker 1: to me from the investigators on the case Crime Stories
18:26
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, there's no good way to put this.
18:31
Speaker 1: Murder Moms, women that turn their frustration in their rage
18:37
Speaker 1: under those that they are entrusted with to protect their
18:42
Speaker 1: own children. We're learning more about Julie Scheneker's rage at
18:50
Speaker 1: her husband's career surpassing her own, her anger that he
18:55
Speaker 1: had to fly out of town for work. She lived
18:59
Speaker 1: in a man as I recall, with a pool out back.
19:03
Speaker 1: I mean, she had it all as this big, huge
19:07
Speaker 1: thing that most people only ever dream of. I mean,
19:11
Speaker 1: when you talking about the one percenters, that would be them.
19:15
Speaker 1: But she was still angry. Take a listen to our
19:19
Speaker 1: cut twenty seven. This yellow thing around her came up
19:27
Speaker 1: and went through the ceiling and then I picked her
19:32
Speaker 1: up and put her in bad and covered up, and
19:36
Speaker 1: I said her up, and I hugged her, and she
19:43
Speaker 1: didn't hug me back, and I laid her down and
19:47
Speaker 1: I kissed her goodnight, and I covered her up. And
19:51
Speaker 1: then I realized I forgot to cover up bow and
19:54
Speaker 1: it was January. So I went and got a blanket
19:57
Speaker 1: and I covered him up and kissed him be night.
20:00
Speaker 1: And I didn't see any blood at all at all.
20:06
Speaker 1: But why didn't Half years later I saw blood in
20:10
Speaker 1: the pictures. But that day, you know, no blood. Save it, lady,
20:20
Speaker 1: he murders your children. All this covering them with a
20:24
Speaker 1: blanket and kissing them and hugging them. I don't care.
20:28
Speaker 1: She murdered them. She planned to murder them. She detailed
20:32
Speaker 1: it in writing out of anger. Her husband left her
20:35
Speaker 1: to race him when he had to go away on trips.
20:38
Speaker 1: And then she starts this with quote, this yellow thing
20:41
Speaker 1: around her came out of her head and went through
20:44
Speaker 1: the ceiling. To you, Serena fast, she's trying to say
20:48
Speaker 1: that was her daughter's soul. Yeah, she told me that
20:51
Speaker 1: that was her daughter's soul, her son's soul, and that
20:55
Speaker 1: they were going up to heaven. And that's why she
20:59
Speaker 1: wanted of the death penalty. She wanted the death penalty
21:03
Speaker 1: initially because she wanted to join really children, and there
21:07
Speaker 1: was a trial, there was, but that's what she wanted it,
21:10
Speaker 1: so she claimed at the very very beginning, she said
21:13
Speaker 1: that she wanted, she wished, she wished she got the
21:17
Speaker 1: death penalty. Why didn't she just petty guilty? That's the question, Nancy.
21:22
Speaker 1: That's why you're so great at what you can tell
21:24
Speaker 1: you Why? Right, Because she didn't want the death penalty
21:27
Speaker 1: and she didn't want to go to jail. That's why
21:29
Speaker 1: you have a trial, because you don't want to go
21:31
Speaker 1: to trial, and the prosecutor does want you to go
21:33
Speaker 1: to jail. Guys, I mean this is so best accords.
21:37
Speaker 1: Everything this woman says is a calculated lie. Well, you
21:41
Speaker 1: know what, don't take my word for it. Listen to
21:44
Speaker 1: our cut seventeen Julie Schinneker murder. Mom. When you shot
21:49
Speaker 1: her in the head, did she fall forward or anything,
21:53
Speaker 1: fall sideways? And then how did you shoot her in
21:55
Speaker 1: the mouth? Where was she laying? I'm still going to
22:01
Speaker 1: share them. Did you take it right inside her mouth? Yeah?
22:08
Speaker 1: I didn't do it inside Yeah, because from the outside
22:13
Speaker 1: of shy. Yeah, she can't referring to her daughter's mouth
22:18
Speaker 1: as quote her sassy mouth. Okay to you as she
22:22
Speaker 1: Wilcot judge and trial lawyer and great courtiv Way in
22:26
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Nancy, you know I've been here biting
22:28
Speaker 1: my tongue. I have so much to say. First of all,
22:31
Speaker 1: here she's trying in this interview to act like um
22:34
Speaker 1: oh it was she was saving them and she saw
22:37
Speaker 1: their souls go up. Let's talk about premeditation. She had
22:40
Speaker 1: written a note about thinking about killing them by guests
22:43
Speaker 1: from a car exhaust. Then she chose to go buy
22:46
Speaker 1: a gun, calmly, sanely, rationally, according to the person that
22:50
Speaker 1: sold it to her. She then claims when they had Mauth,
22:55
Speaker 1: they were mouthie right. Okay. So he's sitting in the
22:58
Speaker 1: back of the cart tying a shoe, doing nothing, innocently
23:02
Speaker 1: sitting there, and she executes him. Then she goes inside
23:07
Speaker 1: and executes her daughter, who was doing homework on a computer.
23:11
Speaker 1: So none of this makes sense. All of this is
23:13
Speaker 1: contrived by her to try to cover up the fact
23:16
Speaker 1: that she murdered her children in cold But there's no excuse,
23:21
Speaker 1: there's no justification. It doesn't matter if she's angry at
23:25
Speaker 1: her husband, it doesn't matter. There's no explaining this other
23:30
Speaker 1: than she evily murdered her children. You were hearing earlier
23:36
Speaker 1: on Julie Schineker as she was speaking to police. Later,
23:41
Speaker 1: you were hearing her speaking to our friend Serena Fazon Serena.
23:47
Speaker 1: When she would say these things to you, what was
23:50
Speaker 1: her demeanor she was, you know, she was giving off
23:53
Speaker 1: that demeanor as feel sorry for me. You know, she
23:57
Speaker 1: actually told me, she told me that Bo was the
24:02
Speaker 1: victim of sexual abuse and he was molested at the
24:06
Speaker 1: age of six, and but she wouldn't reveal by who.
24:11
Speaker 1: Then she said that she was raped as sexually assault
24:15
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, I hate that other word at seventeen,
24:19
Speaker 1: and she was trying to protect her children from a
24:22
Speaker 1: similar fake. So I kept on pushing her to say
24:27
Speaker 1: who are you protecting them from? Who? Yeah, I mean,
24:31
Speaker 1: quite frankly, I thought they need to be protected from her,
24:33
Speaker 1: and that clearly ended up being the case. But that's
24:37
Speaker 1: what she told me in that interview, said, yes, she
24:43
Speaker 1: changed her story because the suggestion they were ever molested
24:50
Speaker 1: has never been brought up until a behind jail house
24:55
Speaker 1: walls interview that you managed to obtain. And so if
24:59
Speaker 1: you hear her word that we played earlier when she
25:01
Speaker 1: was speaking to police, she says Bo, her little boy,
25:05
Speaker 1: was quote sitting there with his face blown out, So
25:09
Speaker 1: that was her idea protecting him. Guys, please take a
25:14
Speaker 1: listen to our friend from hlnjen Kassar speaking to me.
25:20
Speaker 1: Police are alleging and prosecutors that when she was driving
25:24
Speaker 1: her little thirteen year old so too soccer practice, she
25:28
Speaker 1: shot him in the head twice. He was dead. She
25:31
Speaker 1: went back to the home, drove the car in the garage.
25:34
Speaker 1: He stayed dead in the car in the garage. Then
25:37
Speaker 1: she went to the second floor of their home where
25:40
Speaker 1: her sixteen year old daughter was on the computer doing homework,
25:43
Speaker 1: shot her twice in the head. Dead. She was found
25:46
Speaker 1: the next morning in her bathrobe and slippers, out and
25:48
Speaker 1: back with blood all over her. To Joseph Scott Morgan,
25:52
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, do you see the comparison
25:57
Speaker 1: that she shot both off her children in the head
26:00
Speaker 1: as she shot both of them twice? Yeah? I do.
26:04
Speaker 1: And there's another piece here to Nancy that I've seen before.
26:07
Speaker 1: And when we think about this beautiful girl just doing
26:10
Speaker 1: her homework, I find it it's the fact that she
26:16
Speaker 1: went back and shot her in the mouth says a lot.
26:19
Speaker 1: I've worked many cases involving individuals who serial perpetrators in
26:27
Speaker 1: particular that will mutilate individuals, sadist in fact, who will
26:33
Speaker 1: carve up the mouth, that will do horrible things to
26:36
Speaker 1: the mouth of individuals. And I'm not going to go
26:39
Speaker 1: into all of the details, but it speaks a lot.
26:42
Speaker 1: When you're doing a profile on an individual like this,
26:46
Speaker 1: you can learn about where they're inflicting these injuries. The
26:49
Speaker 1: daughter in particular, is from just a straight up clinical standpoint,
26:56
Speaker 1: is kind of interesting because of what she did. You know,
26:59
Speaker 1: she's talking about this child, this child being mouthy, and
27:03
Speaker 1: you're there's like this attempt to blow the mouth out.
27:06
Speaker 1: It's almost symbolic and it's ultimately horrific. You guys, if
27:13
Speaker 1: folks will just go and visit crime online and search
27:16
Speaker 1: her name, you guys have a fantastic article about this case,
27:20
Speaker 1: and you can actually see the crime scene images and
27:24
Speaker 1: it really puts you in that place where this little
27:27
Speaker 1: girl is at her desk, Nancy. You can see the
27:30
Speaker 1: computer there, you can see the bloodstains that are on
27:33
Speaker 1: the floor, and just know that this girl didn't rise
27:36
Speaker 1: to her feet. There was no there was no engagement
27:40
Speaker 1: as far as an argument or a fight. She shot
27:43
Speaker 1: this poor child where she sat Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
27:58
Speaker 1: For those of you just joining as Julie Shinneker, the
28:03
Speaker 1: Ultimate murder Mom. First of all, take a list to
28:07
Speaker 1: Ed Lawrence at ABC Action News Our Cut thirteen. The
28:11
Speaker 1: diary talks in specifics about the two kids, thirteen year
28:14
Speaker 1: old Bow and sixteen year old Kylix. She called me
28:18
Speaker 1: an evil soul and prin sees the evil starts Thursday.
28:22
Speaker 1: The technician went on to read another page labeled Thursday,
28:25
Speaker 1: the day of the murders. The passage started talking about
28:28
Speaker 1: how she shot Bow first in the car on the
28:31
Speaker 1: way to practice, and she was surprised he had fight.
28:34
Speaker 1: He was yelling at me. First shot hit the windshield,
28:37
Speaker 1: second shot was the side of the head, next shot
28:41
Speaker 1: was to the mouth, his mouth email. The diary talks
28:44
Speaker 1: about how both kids would talk back to Schenneker and
28:47
Speaker 1: not treat her with respect, then describes the murder of
28:50
Speaker 1: her daughter. Came home, dash Klix was on the upstairs computer.
28:54
Speaker 1: She said in quotations, what are you doing? Quotations? Just
28:58
Speaker 1: see what you're doing, walked up without her reacting, and
29:02
Speaker 1: shot her in the right temple, then shot her in
29:06
Speaker 1: the mouth and prinses her sassy little mouth, and then
29:10
Speaker 1: we hear from her own her own mouth. Listen to
29:14
Speaker 1: Carson Chambers at ABC Action News This is our cut eleven.
29:19
Speaker 1: We were told by a medical examiner today that Bow
29:21
Speaker 1: and Kalys were shot at such close range that they
29:25
Speaker 1: actually had burn marks on their skin. Her defense attorney's
29:28
Speaker 1: claim that she was insane at the time the slangs,
29:32
Speaker 1: she was diagnosed by polar with psychotic features, and that
29:35
Speaker 1: her chronic mental illness stole everything from her, including her
29:39
Speaker 1: two children. The state says Schineker actually planned that Saturday
29:43
Speaker 1: massacre with a thirty eight revolver and hollow point bullets,
29:47
Speaker 1: and then wrote about the slangs in a diary. I
29:51
Speaker 1: offed Bow on the way to practice. He saw the
29:54
Speaker 1: gun and told me to put it back in the purse.
29:56
Speaker 1: He had a healthy fright I accident, and we shot
30:00
Speaker 1: the window to shot him, one extra through, one extra
30:05
Speaker 1: shot through the side of the head. Then then when
30:09
Speaker 1: we got home, a shot to his mouth because he
30:12
Speaker 1: became so mouthy, just like Kaylix. And the state says
30:15
Speaker 1: that she also wrote in that diary that she would
30:19
Speaker 1: have killed her husband, Colonel Parkersheneker, had he been in
30:22
Speaker 1: the house at the time. Of course, he was on
30:24
Speaker 1: assignment in Afghanistan. Did you hear that, Serena fason? How
30:29
Speaker 1: could she defend shooting them both in the head and
30:34
Speaker 1: then both of them and their mouth. In her diary,
30:38
Speaker 1: which is what I'm focusing on right now, she refers
30:40
Speaker 1: to them and their mouthy mouth. In other words, they
30:43
Speaker 1: talked back to her. It was crazy. And you know,
30:46
Speaker 1: she told me though, when she was sitting with me,
30:49
Speaker 1: that she wishes that her husband, Colonel Parker Sheneker, would
30:52
Speaker 1: have institutionalized her when she asked him to do so
30:56
Speaker 1: in the past. Now the question, of course, is we
30:58
Speaker 1: don't believe she asked him to do that. She claimed
31:01
Speaker 1: that her pride or their pride because they lived they
31:05
Speaker 1: did live Nancy me gorgeous home, that it kept them
31:10
Speaker 1: from addressing her mental illness or her mental health and
31:16
Speaker 1: they didn't want anybody to know. Okay, wait, a mean,
31:18
Speaker 1: let me understand this. So she's claiming she had a
31:21
Speaker 1: mental illness, and she was saying enough to know she
31:25
Speaker 1: had a mental illness and to ask to go to
31:28
Speaker 1: the doctor, but they didn't. She did not take herself
31:33
Speaker 1: to a therapist, a shrink, a psychologist, a psychoanalyst, a psychiatrist,
31:39
Speaker 1: because what she didn't want anybody to find out, So
31:42
Speaker 1: she had a secret mental illness. Is that what you're
31:45
Speaker 1: telling me? Yes, that is exactly what I'm telling you.
31:48
Speaker 1: That she thanked me. She said to me it was
31:52
Speaker 1: her pride that prevented her. And also she blamed her husband.
31:57
Speaker 1: Of course she did, because he's in Afghanistan, right, But
32:00
Speaker 1: Chas Harker both did not want to address her mental
32:04
Speaker 1: illness because they were embarrassed by what their neighbors would think.
32:09
Speaker 1: Guys on mental illness take a list of our cut twelve.
32:12
Speaker 1: Edward Lawrence ABC Action. The crime scene technician read her
32:16
Speaker 1: own words out loud for the jury. I was planning
32:19
Speaker 1: on a Saturday massacre, but had to wait on the
32:23
Speaker 1: background and investigate for three days. This comes from a
32:26
Speaker 1: spiral notebook written by Schennaker's hand. It offers direction to
32:29
Speaker 1: her husband. Prosecutors say it shows a calculating murderer waiting
32:33
Speaker 1: and plotting her attack. Okay, Dodtor, Bethany Marshall, we need
32:38
Speaker 1: a shrink pronto. Well, she reminds me of so many
32:42
Speaker 1: murderers who are actually very The clinical term is histrionic,
32:46
Speaker 1: but I call it trauma queen. You know, the shooting
32:49
Speaker 1: them in the mouth and the mouthy mouth and all
32:51
Speaker 1: of that. She's been very dramatic, this idea that she
32:55
Speaker 1: is saving them because they were molested or from future
32:59
Speaker 1: mole estate. And that's what Andrea Yates did. Remember that
33:03
Speaker 1: she felt that she had this delusion that if she
33:07
Speaker 1: didn't drown the kids that they would go to hell.
33:10
Speaker 1: So she was saving them from hell by killing or
33:14
Speaker 1: drowning them. That was Andrea the Yates and Julie Shinnecour
33:18
Speaker 1: is saving them because they've been molested, and from what
33:22
Speaker 1: she's saving them from. It's it's hard to say. I
33:24
Speaker 1: think this idea of mental illness. It's what we call
33:28
Speaker 1: in the forensic community malingering after the fact. Malingering is
33:33
Speaker 1: a fancy term for making up some kind of an illness.
33:36
Speaker 1: So now she's going to make up that she had
33:38
Speaker 1: a psychiatric illness. The motivation for killing the kids is
33:43
Speaker 1: probably quite shallow. She just didn't want them around. But
33:46
Speaker 1: you know, most parents who kill their kids do it
33:50
Speaker 1: to get back at the other parents, at the other parent, right,
33:53
Speaker 1: So she's angry at her husband that he's on a
33:57
Speaker 1: tour of duty. She's tired of taking care the kids.
34:00
Speaker 1: She's probably harboring very angry thoughts at him. She strikes
34:04
Speaker 1: out at the kids. What is the worst thing you
34:06
Speaker 1: can do to a parent, harm their kids. So this
34:09
Speaker 1: is really not only an act towards the kids, This
34:12
Speaker 1: is an act of violence and rage towards her husband
34:16
Speaker 1: as well. And I was saying about her being preoccupied
34:20
Speaker 1: with her own internal world. She's only tethered to one person,
34:23
Speaker 1: and that's herself. She's not tethered to external reality, the
34:27
Speaker 1: fact that she's going to go to prison, or what
34:29
Speaker 1: the rest of her life is going to be like.
34:31
Speaker 1: She's just caught up in that immediate moment of rage.
34:35
Speaker 1: To Serena Fazon, tell me about her Julie Shanniker and
34:40
Speaker 1: her husband's background and how educated, oh, extremely educated. I
34:46
Speaker 1: believe they met in Germany and they were looked as
34:50
Speaker 1: the power couple, you know, both of them, very put together,
34:55
Speaker 1: very well respected, just again like a our couple. And
35:01
Speaker 1: she was a linguist, as we talked about at the
35:04
Speaker 1: beginning of the show, extremely intelligent, extremely intelligent. After my
35:10
Speaker 1: interview with her, I also am convinced she is a
35:13
Speaker 1: master manipulator as well. Definitely a master manipulator. I mean
35:17
Speaker 1: she told the lead prosecutor in the case was a
35:20
Speaker 1: guy by the name of J. Pruner. He's still with
35:22
Speaker 1: the State Attorney's office. She actually told me at the
35:26
Speaker 1: time that she commended him for convincing the jury that
35:31
Speaker 1: she was not insane and referenced previous moments in her
35:36
Speaker 1: life when she snapped, you know, saying so she was
35:41
Speaker 1: very you know, she's say she's not insane, and then
35:43
Speaker 1: she's saying that she was saying her story was all
35:46
Speaker 1: over the place. There was an incident, and I know,
35:49
Speaker 1: I don't know if people had talked about it, but
35:53
Speaker 1: I don't know when it happened. It happened maybe a
35:56
Speaker 1: year or maybe it's several months prior to this, But
35:59
Speaker 1: she actually headbutted an army commander's wife at a function. Bad. Yeah,
36:08
Speaker 1: she had butted. It was during a Christmas party. And
36:13
Speaker 1: you know, Parker Shenneker had said that those were the
36:18
Speaker 1: moments that he knew that his wife were going out
36:22
Speaker 1: of control, out of control. And they're saying two different things.
36:26
Speaker 1: Headbutting another woman a Christmas party, Okay, I'd say that's
36:29
Speaker 1: not good. In saying, no, you know, it's interesting. This
36:33
Speaker 1: is just evil to you. Actually wild caught on that
36:37
Speaker 1: evening January twenty seven, Shinnaker sends an email to her
36:42
Speaker 1: then husband Parker. It says, quote, get home soon. We're
36:48
Speaker 1: waiting for you. But as a matter of fact, she
36:51
Speaker 1: had just murdered the children. They were dead lying there.
36:54
Speaker 1: She says, hurry home. I can't even begin to fathom
36:59
Speaker 1: the depth of her evilness. I'm not going to say
37:02
Speaker 1: I believe that it's anything other than that. I don't
37:04
Speaker 1: believe it's mental health. I believe that whether she snapped,
37:08
Speaker 1: so to speak, or she'd been planning it, which she
37:11
Speaker 1: had been a man as she will call, you're a
37:13
Speaker 1: judge and a child while you're right, yeah, and did
37:17
Speaker 1: you actually just use a defense snapped, because that's the
37:21
Speaker 1: name of a program that's not real that I just
37:25
Speaker 1: got mad snapped Bam. That's not a defense. That's called revenge. Right,
37:31
Speaker 1: It's definitely not a defense. But you know, she's trying
37:34
Speaker 1: to paint it as, oh, I have to give up
37:37
Speaker 1: my career, I'm angry with my my husband. Crimea river
37:41
Speaker 1: to then go the extra step, and we've already heard
37:44
Speaker 1: she's very very smart, So she's very revengeful manipulative to
37:50
Speaker 1: know they're dead and send him that type of message.
37:53
Speaker 1: I wonder what he thought when he read it. I
37:55
Speaker 1: wonder if he read it and thought, what does this mean?
37:58
Speaker 1: What is hell? I find really interesting Ashley as her
38:02
Speaker 1: whole story was I'm gonna kill the children and kill myself.
38:06
Speaker 1: But the reality is shelled murdered the children, and then
38:10
Speaker 1: she just went on her verandah and fell asleep. Okay.
38:16
Speaker 1: So also I'd like to point out that in court
38:20
Speaker 1: she acted like she was drugged up, but then she
38:24
Speaker 1: spotted somebody out in the gallery in the courtroom and
38:28
Speaker 1: smiled and winked. She winked at somebody on trial for
38:31
Speaker 1: the murder of her two children. She was all smiling
38:34
Speaker 1: and happy, and then the husband walks in and she
38:36
Speaker 1: immediately turns to a scowl angry. You know what, she
38:41
Speaker 1: is no more crazy than my cat sentiment. She is
38:45
Speaker 1: not crazy. She's evil. That's what she is, and that's
38:49
Speaker 1: why she's a murder mom. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
38:55
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,