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Chucky Retrospective: Child's Play 3 & Bride of Chucky · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
0:10
Explain something to you. I am a vintage, mass-marketed children's toy from the 80s.
0:17
Standing right in front of you, holding a very sharp scalpel.
0:23
I'm turning human again? If I don't get out of this body soon, I'm screwed.
0:28
You little shit! Do you know what you've done?
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I, I'm Chucky, and I'm your friend to the end.
0:36
I like a little killing now and then. What's wrong with that?
0:39
Music.
0:40
Oh, my God.
0:57
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of Citizen Frame.
1:02
As we continue our Chucky Child's Play retrospective.
1:06
When we last left, Chucky, the poor bastard got molded to death or melted to
1:12
death right where he was originally born.
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That's right, the factory. The toy factory, yes.
1:18
Yeah, he had a good guy's factory and he molded, got hot molded plastic,
1:23
whatever the fuck it is, all over him.
1:25
And that was the end of our boy Chucky.
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Or was it? He returned.
1:33
So we opened up. Oh, by the way, guys, let's let you know. I'm a team player.
1:38
I'm a team player because I got that fucking cold again.
1:42
So I said, God, I got to get this out for the fans, all three of you.
1:49
I'm going to get this out just for you guys. You know what Trevor said?
1:53
Guys, I feel like I shouldn't be telling you this.
1:57
He says, tell them to go fuck themselves or pieces of shit.
2:02
That's a quote Trevor said that. It was less than three hours ago.
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I have nothing but love in my heart But what I was going to compliment you there
2:11
too, Ciarán I was going to say that you actually reminded me of Well,
2:16
like Rambo Because you're sort of, you know Even though you've got man flu still,
2:20
You're sort of You're still carrying on And you're doing You know what?
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I know I am You're not getting that compliment now Well, it's too late You already
2:28
said it You already said it Also, I know who I am I feel like Rambo when he
2:32
set himself on fire When the arrow went through his, you know His stomach Yeah, whatever he,
2:37
basically cures himself. That's exactly how I feel right now.
2:41
I'm taking it. Yeah, well, it's, you know, obviously very similar because we
2:44
all know how deadly man flu can be. So, yeah. Yeah.
2:49
All right, yeah, so we're back here with Chalice Plate 3. Chucky isn't done yet.
2:54
Now they rushed this one. They wanted nine months to have it written and shot.
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That's the problem with Hollywood these days. These deadlines need to go away.
3:04
All you're doing is causing chaos if there's a delay of any kind in the creative process.
3:11
But that's what they're given. Well, Don Mancini himself has stated that basically
3:17
due to it being rushed, He didn't have time to sort of polish his story or his script.
3:23
And while I still like this one, you can see where it is a bit sort of thrown together at times.
3:32
Yeah, there's editing issues. And I think that's just because cut,
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next scene, cut, next scene.
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It also feels like an episode of a TV program from back then, as opposed to a film.
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Well, Mancini got the idea.
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Was inspired by the omen, Damien 2. Well, Damien Omen 2.
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And which I can see, actually. I get that. Oh, totally.
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Even before I knew that, before watching the documentary, I actually,
4:01
whenever watching it, I was sitting thinking, this reminds me of Damien Omen 2.
4:06
You know, where Damien and his cousin go to the military academy. Yeah.
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This is also produced. We brought on Jack Bender.
4:15
He's actually more of a producer. Sure, he's been around for a long time,
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but he mainly works with J.J. Abrams.
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I mean, he's good, good on him. Great producer credits, like Mr.
4:23
Mercedes, a lot of Stephen King stuff, Alias, Lost, the TV show I love right now called From.
4:30
Yeah, I've heard From's pretty good, actually. But the guy I know watching it
4:34
currently, he said it's pretty good. Yeah, From is very cool.
4:37
I just wrapped up season four or three. I can't remember.
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But it's, yeah, pretty good. Guys, just check it out called From.
4:44
If you like X-Files, or X-Files meets Lost, you'll get a kick out of it.
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Yeah, so this was a commercial failure. I mean, it made its money,
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but nothing like the other ones have.
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$13 million budget, it made $21 million. So profitable, but not good enough for what they thought.
5:01
I would say as well that in the UK at the time, this particular Chucky film
5:08
was hugely controversial,
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especially the video version of it, ...due to it being incorrectly implicated by the tabloid press,
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like The Sun and The Daily Mirror...
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...in the absolutely horrific murder of toddler James Bolger by two 10-year-olds.
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This film was blamed on it.
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So it was, essentially, and the Red Tops, the tabloid press at the time here,
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were running headlines...
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Trying to get people to essentially burn copies of
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child's play three completely ridiculous over the top hysteria well yeah you
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well you mentioned the fucking what the mirror and the sun are you fucking kidding
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me yeah tabloids i thought you meant i thought you meant real journal you know
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real you know real real newspapers well this is it but the thing is the tabloids certainly back then,
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sold in their millions so a lot of people were reading this garbage that they
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were printing In fact, the police actually came out and said regarding the Bulger
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case that while the father of one of the killers had rented out Child's Play three months prior,
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the chances that the kid even watched it,
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never mind acted upon it, were pretty slim.
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So this was just pure hysteria and although the film was never banned in the
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UK, there were a lot of video stores due to this controversy removed it from
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their shelves and Sky TV also.
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Cancelled screenings of it so yes it was all a bit nuts and whenever you actually
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watch Child's Play 3, which obviously the people protesting against it didn't,
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it becomes even more ridiculous,
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Yeah, I don't see any,
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I don't see anything I don't see anything I actually don't see anything a movie
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can do to anybody doing anything it was a scapegoat probably because I'm a normal
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human being and I understand the difference between fiction and reality yeah
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well exactly well I don't know about that but yes you're not a normal human being but anyway,
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it was all complete and utter nonsense and they were called not just for the
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film to be banned but for copies of it to be burnt you know,
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ridiculous yeah let's just move on from it who cares fuck them they're probably all dead now.
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So we got this one we got josh and whalen perry reese brad dorf andrew robinson
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dakin matthews peter haskell minimal cast which again i always like we've got
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of course the characters of andy da silva chucky botnick nice little cameo by
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a boy andrew robinson colonel cochran and Sullivan, Whitehurst, Tyler, and Shelton.
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Those are your main go-tos. But you know what? I like the opening.
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I like how they kind of copying what they did with the second one.
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It takes place in the factory where he was last seen and taken out by Andy himself,
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and it sees the whole factory's all cobweb now.
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This is kind of going to show you that the good guy factory is now...
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Done for because of this last fiasco that happened.
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So it kind of is just showing you that because of the outcome of Chucky,
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good guy dolls have been pretty much borrowed and banned.
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And so what we don't realize is that they're fixing up the factory at this point
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and they're going to clean up because the good guy dolls are coming back as a resurgence hits.
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Everybody wants a good guy doll now after a few years. It's eight years after.
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That's right. After Auntie Barclays. Yeah. Yeah. The murders, basically, yes.
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Yeah, and then we see the machines cleaning everything up, and we see this one
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machine take the leftover melted corpse for Chucky, and of course,
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some of the blood falls into the fresh pot of goo.
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And makes a new Chucky. Yes, and so Chucky is back. I like the fact Sullivan is back.
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Yes. I thought that was kind of fun, because the old man, the CEO of Good Guys,
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he never got it in that one we needed to see him get it because he was a deuce yes.
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So it's nice that they keep the continuity from the second one they bring back
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the old man which I like and I like to see the repair process of how he they
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bring back Chucky like they did with the second one you know the scraping of the version and what not,
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but the old man never got it so we need to see the old man get it and that's
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important because he was a deuce and so it was nice that they went back to him.
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I think it's the character's name is Sullivan.
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And so they just had to take that motherfucker out. And they pretty much got
9:44
to see him act their back as well. What was that?
9:47
They got to see him act their back as well. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah.
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But yeah. So he says, nobody, nobody remembers Barkley. Nobody cares anymore.
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Who gives a shit? We're going to go ahead and take this in a new direction.
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And so they're all happy of the re-release. Oh, Chucky.
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And he gets the first one off the new assembly line. And of course,
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the first one off the assembly line is going to be our boy Chucky.
10:15
I thought his death was kind of, I was all right. I thought the,
10:19
the, uh, the darts thing was kind of stupid. Like, did he paralyze him with a dart?
10:23
What, what the fuck happened there? Yeah, it is a bit sort of slapstick.
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Yeah. And a little bit silly, but it is sort of tongue in cheek.
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And it's meant to be, you know, like, and it's meant to be a bit ironic as well,
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where the toys that he created basically turn on him and essentially kill him.
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I was more sort of distracted by the fact that...
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Whenever this was made, like 1990 or whatever, Chucky can like straight away
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track down all these warabouts through what would be a very primitive form of the internet.
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I don't know if that would be possible, but there's a few other things at jar with this.
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But anyway, the plot had to be forwarded. Well, that one actually makes somewhat sense.
11:02
At least he can use the internet now or whatever he uses. I think he uses documentation
11:07
that he had on the computer of where Barkley is now. I think that's what he,
11:12
that's what he was like, which is, which is fine.
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It's better than going, making a phone call to somebody you don't know going,
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oh, I'm a good friend of blah, blah, blah. Can I have all the information of where he's at?
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Like in the second one? Like the second one. Yeah. So at least they fixed that at least.
11:31
But yeah, death by yo-yo. That's all right, I guess.
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And we sort of like, I don't know, toy robots and stuff as well.
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And the darts. You like his line.
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He's got a good line here. Don't fuck with a chuck. Nope.
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Nothing like a good strangulation to get the circulation going.
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Well, that ties back as well to him being, he was a strangler whenever he was
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a serial killer. Exactly.
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So they keep, again, referencing back to the original two.
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And I think that's why I like, I'm not a big fan of the third one,
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but I'm going to keep it in the vein as a decent little trilogy because we're
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about to go to batshit crazy coming up real soon here.
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And they retcon a lot of stuff Machina admits it I don't like when people retcon,
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I'm the same, we'll talk about that soon but we'll definitely talk about it
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but yeah he's in this military school now he's 16 at this point,
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I just love the little things the barber thing Andrew Robinson,
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he's always nice to see over the top barber,
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he's got pictures of the kids of the shaved heads what sort of character trait
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is someone who is obsessed with cutting people's hairs like addicted he's got
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the pictures the Polaroid pictures of them and then he's got pieces of their hair.
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To be fair, it is a funny cameo and he does have a good death as well.
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Yeah, I mean, he's definitely there for a fan fave because of Hellraiser and Dirty Harry.
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I do love the scene later on where he's in basically the dining hall and he's
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going around him and all, you, Tuesday, buzz cut or whatever.
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You know what I mean? He's going around him all, you, Friday,
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it's coming off. You know, that type of thing.
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Yeah, it's a pretty fast intro to everybody. You get to meet pretty quick,
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and I kind of like that because it's a short enough film, and if they're going
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to make a short enough film,
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at least the introduction of the characters is done properly,
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and you already know who the douche is. Shelton. Which is what? Shelton?
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Shelton, he's the boy. Then you got Silva. She's a little hottie,
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and she's actually done really well for a career for herself.
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Good for her. Well, she was in a very quite popular episode of The X-Files, a vampire-themed one.
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Where she basically played a sort of sexy, seductive vampire.
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But at the time, she was also David Duchovny's girlfriend.
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I would say it does jar a little here that she clearly is quite a few years older than Andy.
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I mean, she looks like she could play 30-year-old here, and he's 16.
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By the way, the wee guy playing Andy here, he also played Jimmy Olsen in the
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Superman series, Lewis and Clark, you know, the one with Dean Cain and Harry Hatcher.
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Yeah, but you're daily dumping a lot of resumes there.
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Just rely on college. It's okay. It's okay. All right.
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Yeah, that's Justin Wellen. His career never took off. I liked his role in Serial Mom.
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I can't really remember. I know of it, but I can't really remember.
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John Waters, Serial Mom.
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Kathleen Turner's a nut job. And he's the master. I remember. Yeah. Yeah.
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I would say as well, in terms of continuity, he does really look like Alex Vincent,
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you know, like an older 16 year old version of Alex Vincent in the first two films so I bet,
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yeah, they did a nice job casting and he's not a bad little actor for his first
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outing really he does look like him and they even said the reason they didn't
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bring Andy back and I guess,
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the reason they said because we've told that story yeah, we really can't go
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anywhere else with that trilogy, we told two stories with Annie.
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It's too bad they couldn't go back with Annie and get the mom back in there, Catherine Hicks.
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Yes, that would have been. That would have been a better, that would have been
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a nice trilogy if you got them back to come back for this one.
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The thing is, too, they still go with the child in Pearl storyline,
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but this time it switched to Tyler.
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Which isn't a bad save. I'll give it credit for that.
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I kind of like that because when Chucky gets out, he mails himself to the military,
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which I thought was funny. Yeah.
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And And Tyler is the one who has to give it to him. And Tyler finds out it's
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a good guy doll. Little fucker wants to keep it for himself.
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I do think it's a nice, and then I do think it's convenient how he knows, hey, wait, new body.
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I just told Tyler. So Tyler's my new victim. I don't need to worry about Andy anymore. Yeah.
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And I think, how would you know that? Is it something you read that we didn't
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see? Well, he read the book, Voodoo for Dummies, that we'll see in the next film, you know?
16:09
Yeah. Jesus. No, it is sort of made clear from the first one to be fair that,
16:14
yes, it's a bit convenient here, but it does tie in with the first one where
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he has to transfer his soul into Andy Barclay because he is the first one he revealed himself to.
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So, you know, to be fair, yes, it is a bit convenient and yes, Tyler is a bit annoying.
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Although you feel sorry for him at the same time. You know, you're sort of rooting
16:33
for him but he is kind of irritating, you know, and a bit whiny.
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But I get the sort of... This is actually...
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I know this has drawn a lot of criticism, this film but there is quite a lot...
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It's quite well written in terms, because obviously it doesn't,
16:47
you know, it's show, don't tell the way it should be in terms of,
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you know, you know that Tyler is obviously damaged as a kid.
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He's been hurt and possibly abused in some way.
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So therefore he's vulnerable, just like Andy was in the first film,
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you know, from losing his father.
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And, you know, you know, so both kids have been vulnerable and therefore perfect
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for Chucky to attempt to play.
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What does he say? Play Swap the Souls or something?
17:14
You know? Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
17:18
I do like when Barkley, when he's doing the roll call, his first roll call,
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and he sees from a distance, Cochran has taken the doll from Tyler.
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But he sees from a distance, says Chucky. I do like that whole scene. He plays it well. Yeah.
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Where it's almost as cocky, and the camera comes in, and it looks at his face,
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and he's like, fuck. Yeah.
17:38
And obviously, we find out what happens to the poor garbage man.
17:40
Yes, exactly. What a horrible death.
17:42
That would be a horrible fucking death. Oh, I don't. Just the whole claustrophobia
17:44
of being, yeah, yeah, exactly, trapped in that sort of garbage sort of van, yeah.
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Although it's not, you know, the deaths here, like the first one,
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are more sort of, it doesn't show you everything, you know, it's more left to
17:59
your imagination, you know, sort of cuts away.
18:01
There's no real hardcore gore here or anything like that.
18:05
Well, most of the damage is done to Chucky, and some cool effects come up with Chucky.
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But the problem I have with the film, we get the old man death,
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Sullivan, and we got the garbage man.
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51 minutes in, and that's the only two deaths.
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And that's where I have the problem. Now, I know what they're trying to do.
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They're playing on more suspense.
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He has to be more low-key here because you can't have a bunch of dead bodies at this academy.
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Me so he's kind of keep he's trying to keep a low profile and i so i guess that's
18:38
what they're trying to do but at the end of the day it's a killer doll film
18:41
i need to see some deaths well exactly and we really don't get many of them
18:44
but but when we do get them they're fun like when,
18:49
the barber gets his throat cut oh yeah that's probably the best deaths apart
18:54
from chucky's himself that's probably the best death scene and plus it's andy
18:58
robinson and he camps it up and he is very funny in the role you know but yes
19:04
I do think that this is basically in a nutshell,
19:07
a teen drama or possibly you know a
19:10
teen version of Full Metal Jacket but with a killer doll and it's not really
19:16
out and out horror certainly what we got before you know with the whole sort
19:19
of slicer thing before essentially you know and the second one certainly had
19:23
its flaws as well but yeah it's a weird vibe and it's a weird way to do this one you know.
19:29
Yeah, but you do have that female, you know, the Arlie Ermey character,
19:35
which is pretty much Cochran and Robinson all kind of rolled into one. Yeah.
19:39
And Shelton. Then you've got Whitehurst, who's the nerd who witnesses the death of the barber.
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So he now knows what he saw, but he can't tell you about it because he's not like a fucking nut job.
19:49
But he's almost like the Colonel Pyle. Yes. The Pyle character in this.
19:54
And he gets a brave exit and a sad outcome, actually.
19:59
Now we'll talk we'll talk we'll talk about we'll talk
20:02
about though how the the tone
20:05
of the chalice play three i will say this it's
20:08
a dark little tone it's not played for laughs i
20:11
mean some scenes are you got adriel robertson and you've
20:14
got some of the over top of scenes like
20:17
that the haircuts it's like yeah but the characters who
20:21
or who play the cadets shelton whitehertz
20:24
they play a dead pants they play dead serious and it
20:27
gets pretty disturbing especially when chucky which
20:30
i do love it switches the red team's ammo for live ammo well that's definitely
20:34
something very mischievous that chucky would do you know the little shit so
20:38
but yeah but i mean as we talk often about character arcs i think whitehurst
20:44
has a great one you know from being the nerdy coward to essentially a hero you know.
20:50
Yeah, this whole sequence, when they're in the woods, there's a lot of editing issues here.
20:56
There's a lot of one scene Andy's making out of Da Silva. Next thing you know, he's sleeping. Yeah.
21:01
So I was kind of like, wait, what's going on here? Where are we now?
21:05
There are a lot of rush jobs to get to the next scene, and it does show quite a bit.
21:11
But when things start going, when he starts going, when Andy's looking for Tyler,
21:16
because he needs to find out where the Chucky doll is, this is where the shit
21:20
hits the fan and the red team show up and they start shooting but it's supposed
21:25
to be paint pellets but it's actually live rounds,
21:28
because they think they're there to steal,
21:31
one of their, to kidnap one of their own and this is a plan it's just,
21:36
again, it's called war games it's not supposed to be legit but they thought
21:39
that's what they were trying to do but all it was was Andy trying to get Tyler to safety.
21:44
And this is, like I said there's still young people.
21:49
Even Shelvin is. Yeah. And he gets shot with one of the live rounds.
21:52
I would say he actually has a very effective death. It's quite powerful.
21:57
But also his line, just before he dies, before the bullets fired,
22:01
whenever he sees the killer doll, the killer talking doll, for the first time, essentially, you know,
22:09
actually being chucky, and he just looks at it and goes, he sort of smiles and goes, fuck me.
22:15
And then, bang, it's shut down it's very well done yeah and then Whitehurst
22:21
scene jumping on the grenade yeah quite brutal.
22:25
But damn, what a way to go. And it's actually, it's really cool that he went out that way.
22:29
I know it sounds like sick and morbid, but I don't know. Hero,
22:32
he went from zero to hero.
22:34
So he did, you know, self-sacrifice. It's a self-sacrifice arc.
22:39
Way to go, Whitehurst, you nerdy little bastard. You the man, Whitehurst.
22:45
I do like the, I don't know if it's a cheat, but I do like when you put an amusement
22:50
park in a horror film. Carnival.
22:53
And i think it's just funny where it's they're playing
22:56
war games right next to you know their military academy
23:00
and then there's an amusement park right there so but
23:04
i do i i get i guess that i can see why they
23:07
went that direction because you know let's horror
23:09
this up at this point yes let's gear this up but there's two there's again again
23:13
there's very few deaths in this film you've got the scene of the security guard
23:17
who helps him go lost and found and they're trying to find whatever they're
23:21
trying to find something and then off camera the security guard gets shot in
23:25
the head yeah he dies off screen so yes there is a lack of,
23:30
action generally you know but also obviously death scenes this is a slicer film
23:35
ultimately so you're going to want to ramp it up and there are a lack of them here,
23:41
yeah I mean even Cochran the colonel he technically dies of a heart attack after
23:47
seeing Chucky which actually would make sense in real life,
23:50
but that, that is a good scene though.
23:53
I, I'm going to give him that one because Chucky's line is the best.
23:56
You've got to be fucking kidding me.
23:59
And Chucky also has lipstick on at this point after, you know,
24:03
the Silva and their dumb ass mate are sort of messing around with him.
24:07
Yeah. But I'm going to give, because this, you've got this general guy and he's
24:11
walking around all these military awards and all these beautiful models and
24:16
stuff. He sees Chucky and he just, he drops dead.
24:19
I'm giving that a pass I thought that was funny as fuck I do like when they're
24:25
in the the horror ride I do think this is kind of fun.
24:31
When Death has his sickle and the sickle comes down and takes half of his face
24:37
off and you can see the mixture of you know animatronics but real muscle and
24:43
tissue and rubber it's actually very cool,
24:47
Kevin Yeager yeah a nice blend of everything and then he finally shoots him
24:54
into the fan of doom yes and he gets chopped to pieces after saving the kid,
25:00
and that's it there you go.
25:03
I always wonder, you always wish, like from Chucky 1 and 2 to Chucky 2 and 3,
25:12
you would love a scene, just the opening scene, something where these people, Tyler,
25:19
especially Andy, gets away with it.
25:21
Like at some point, I would love a scene where you've got these top-notch writers,
25:28
maybe fucking profilers from the FBI somebody to come in write an opening to
25:34
where how they explain themselves to get out of this,
25:39
you know what I mean it's kind of like any more slasher films
25:42
right when the slasher gets away and the part of the final girl sitting there
25:45
with like 30 dead bodies you never really get you kind of want to see well where's
25:50
the questioning here how does she not how is she not an accomplice to this so
25:55
it's the same thing I would love it to be like an interrogation scene of where they go,
25:59
you know what, that makes sense kid, alright, you're free to go.
26:02
To be fair though, they do sort of address it because Andy gets arrested at
26:06
the end of this, and he turns around to De Silva and says,
26:09
don't worry, I'm used to it you know, in that, you know, he's used to people
26:13
not believing his, what they think, bullshit story about a walking,
26:17
talking killer doll you know?
26:20
Yeah I know, but I mean all slasher films have one-line fics I know that,
26:25
but... But you never But this one, a killer doll.
26:30
I would love to see a scene where Catherine Hicks, Chris Sarandon,
26:33
Chris Sarandon's partner, and Andy are all sitting in the courtroom. Yeah.
26:38
And they're all, like, seriously, it would be really impressive if they did,
26:42
like, a mini trial. Well, apparently.
26:46
It could be during the credits, part two, right?
26:49
And during the credits, you have a mini trial, and it actually is smart.
26:53
It actually sees why they would get away with not being insane.
26:57
Well, apparently they did have a similar scene planned for Child's Play 2,
27:03
but it would have ended with basically Catherine Hicks, the mother,
27:07
being sectioned. So that was planned for the second one.
27:10
And I think they were going to have it where the Chris Sardin detective character,
27:15
I can't remember, but it might have been where he denied it,
27:17
or possibly, yeah, something like that.
27:20
So apparently that was planned for the second one. but it was sort of cut, essentially.
27:26
Or even Chris Sarandon, well, it'd be shitty to see that.
27:31
I think it would have been better if the partner cowers out and goes,
27:35
I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, Deputy Dog partner.
27:39
Yeah, and then he loses his job, the cop, because he was believing the mother,
27:45
and the mother gets sectioned.
27:47
That would have been all right. And then the opening scene of two,
27:50
Chris Sarandon and the cop, who kind of betrayed him gets it.
27:57
That would have been pretty good. I just like that nice transition of just... Yeah, exactly.
28:06
It's more of a sort of... It would have tied up the nuts, the loose ends for
28:10
basically the fans of the first one moving into the second one.
28:14
But I think the problem in reality, while they would have liked to have done
28:17
stuff like this, it was going to different hands in terms of Tom Holland wasn't
28:22
the director anymore and Catherine Hicks, for whatever reasons,
28:26
didn't want to be on board.
28:27
Apparently she had an issue with the mother character being sectioned.
28:31
I don't know. I mean, this is all just, you know, stuff I've read.
28:33
No, no, we talked about that.
28:35
We talked about that. And she's right.
28:38
But at least she's in it. And it gives her character weight still because the
28:44
two cops who had her back betray her.
28:47
So that would at least give her a swan song.
28:51
But at least you feel sorry rather than just a write-off.
28:54
Yeah, yeah. Or maybe you could have had Chris Sarandon basically has it in his
28:58
badge or something, you know, because he was taking her side.
29:01
But Deputy Dog basically, you know,
29:03
basically went against him and got her sectioned or something like that.
29:08
Well, we didn't get that, but we get this fucker coming seven years later.
29:15
Fucking hell. Yep. Seven years and Bride of Chucky is born. Wow.
29:24
Wow, wow, wow. David Kirshner, the producer of the series, got the idea when
29:31
he was at the video store, watching Bride of Frankenstein was on.
29:36
And the executive of the studios says, nope, we're not doing another Chucky.
29:42
Until his daughter had a sleepover, and they insisted on watching the first
29:48
three Chucky movies. That's right, yes.
29:50
So he says, you know what? Do you still have that script? Yep. Go ahead and do it. Yep.
29:56
$25 million budget. And the reason they say they had to go to that is because
30:02
this is actually the first Child's Play to actually, the lead is going to be Chucky.
30:10
And because of the animatronics, there's no POV shots here.
30:15
It's all not going to keep your little Chucky hiding behind the...
30:17
Chucky's in this, full screen, fully mechanical.
30:21
And now you have a next one with Tiffany. They had the budget had to be up. Yes.
30:27
Didn't do that well. No, I think this did really well.
30:30
No, it didn't. It did made 31 million in the US on a $25 million budget,
30:35
but it made 50 million worldwide. Yeah.
30:38
And despite reviewers hating it, fans love it. It's hugely popular.
30:44
And I would say. Yeah, it is. A big factor to, I mean, obviously it goes off
30:48
the rails and it goes in a completely different direction.
30:51
And I'm not just talking about the retcon stuff here but I think Ronnie Yu directing,
30:57
brings a couple of things to it, a professional,
31:01
sort of outlook and a professional sort of standard because I mean this guy
31:06
is a very good director but also in interviews that I've seen with him talking about it,
31:13
he gets it, this is tongue in cheek horror and he gets it and he's not taking
31:17
it too serious but he's taking it serious enough.
31:20
So I think in Ronnie Hughes' hands, they really it was a real winner for them. I think he struck gold.
31:28
Yeah. No, I don't see that. But Don Machini's back. I think at this point Don
31:33
Machini needs to back away. I think he does.
31:37
We'll find out. No, he continues. He becomes even more involved.
31:41
These next two we're about to talk about are wow.
31:48
They are Jason takes Manhattan and Jason X by far.
31:55
But the series will find its footing and we'll get into that soon alright so
32:00
yeah we're here to talk Brad and Chucky yeah we got our boys back Brad Dorf
32:03
is Chucky Jennifer Tilly is Tiffany Katherine Heigl her first role is Jade,
32:08
Nick Stable is Jesse, John Renner nice to see him, God love him,
32:11
Chief Kincaid and then we got Damien and David,
32:15
I love needle nose. A little corny.
32:19
Yeah, needle nose. The cap. Yes. I think it's a little silly when they go to
32:24
the evidence room and there's Freddie's glove, Jason and Michael Myers' mask.
32:28
There's also Leatherface's chainsaw. I mean, it's fan service.
32:32
I mean, Pinhead even technically pops up on this with John Ritter's death.
32:37
You know, this is very much one for the fans. So it is.
32:41
Oh, yes, it is. It's, this is a nod to Brian Frankenstein and love of classic
32:48
horror. Oh, absolutely.
32:49
And the next one's going to be, the next one is going to be an homage to.
32:54
Yeah. A trice cinema in general. Yeah.
32:56
Yeah. So, yeah. Well, okay. Let's jump into it.
33:00
All right. So pretty much this story is pretty much simple. Cop steals Chucky.
33:05
Chucky kills the cop. No, Chucky doesn't kill the cop. It's Jennifer Tilly.
33:09
Jennifer Tilly kills the cop. Yeah.
33:13
Because she told him to get Chucky and then she cuts his throat and then she's like, hello, Dolly.
33:18
It's a great introduction to both her character and just the film.
33:22
Not really. And it sets a tone for what's to come. That's, yeah.
33:28
Yeah, it's a whole new world here and I'm not a fan of it.
33:31
So what's happening now, even the credits, is a great song, by the way,
33:35
Living Dead Girl by Rob Zombie. Yes.
33:37
A couple of Rob Zombie songs in this one, which I'm fine with. I like my zombie.
33:41
But yeah, we got Jennifer now and yeah Jesus Alexis Arquette,
33:48
yeah I saw that but yeah so I do like when she stitches him back up cause he's
33:54
all in pieces obviously from the fan yes and and then we meet.
34:00
Why is Chief Kincaid, that's his niece? Yes.
34:04
It sort of suggested that her parents are dead in some way, so she's onto the car of her uncle.
34:11
And then you have David, the gay best friend, who's basically pretending to be her boyfriend.
34:18
I know, I know, I know. But why is Chief Kincaid such a douche?
34:23
Oh, that's just for comic effect.
34:25
You know, yeah, watching the documentary about the series, apparently John Ritter
34:29
said yeah he was very enthusiastic about playing a complete asshole.
34:33
He wanted him to be an asshole. So it's a joke it's dumb for laughs but also
34:37
for a bit of dramatic tension.
34:39
Now I'm not saying this is the most dramatic film ever made but you know there
34:43
is that conflict there where he's a dick especially towards her boyfriend her
34:48
real boyfriend not David Do you know what I mean? Jesse. You're talking about Jesse.
34:53
Alright yeah I think it's stupid. If you're going to do it to give us a reason, but whatever.
34:59
It's terrible. It's a waste, waste, waste of a performance by John Ritter. I think he's good on it.
35:05
What's he good in, though? He's in it for five minutes. What does he really do?
35:11
He doesn't have that much to do, but when he is on the screen,
35:14
he is funny, I think. I don't think at all.
35:17
Right. This is terrible.
35:20
This is bad slapstick. This is bad slapstick. and
35:24
then we have this horrible scene in
35:27
the trailer with Damien and her and
35:32
and he's he's talking to her for a long time and it's just blah blah blah and
35:38
then Chucky comes full circle and kills him obviously an exorcist reference
35:44
with the head spinning around on Chucky and even his name,
35:49
Damien Bailock, which we'll learn later on, is basically a huge reference to the Omen again.
35:55
Obviously Mancini is a big Omen fan because Bailock was the Billy Whitelaw babysitter
36:00
character in the original. Yeah. Yeah, Mrs. Bailock.
36:03
Yeah. Yep. Yep, you're just not enthusiastic about this at all, Ciarán.
36:08
Man flew aside. This is terrible. Terrible. This is fucking terrible.
36:13
Right. I enjoy it for its compy silliness. Of course. I know you would.
36:17
I know you like this. I know you like shit.
36:20
So I know you're going to like it, so I'm prepared for it.
36:23
No, you don't like good cinema. This is terrible. Again, I look at the source
36:28
material, and that's why I get upset.
36:30
No, I understand what you're saying. And I'll tell you what. Three gets a bum rap.
36:34
Sorry, two gets a bum rap. No, sorry. Three gets a bum rap. Yeah,
36:37
three. Three gets a bum rap.
36:38
And I'll tell you what. This is three is fucking so, so superior than this terrible film that we get.
36:47
And not only does the writer, the creator, Don Machini sell his, sell his child out.
36:55
With retconning this fucking necklace thing. The medallion.
36:58
The medallion. It's like, what the fuck are you doing, man?
37:02
I went off on George Miller for selling out Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome, remember that?
37:06
Yes, I remember, yep, and I agree with you. This guy's doing the exact same
37:10
injustice to his series. Do you know what I think the issue is?
37:13
See, with certainly the original, Don Mancini, while he did write the original
37:19
script, he wasn't really in control, and he has a lot more control here.
37:23
So this is more his vision certainly the
37:26
next you know this one and see the chucky were more
37:29
campy comedies essentially you know
37:32
this is carry on chucky basically and yes
37:35
i get it and i but i also get how fans
37:39
and i'm a fan by the way of the original a big
37:42
fan but i also understand how you know you know
37:45
you have to reinvent these series every so often you
37:48
know especially if they're as long running as this or you know the jason
37:51
ones or whatever but uh for what
37:54
it is i i'm not saying it's a masterpiece don't get me wrong and
37:57
it is stupid and it is daft basically all the
38:00
way through but i sort of get the sort
38:03
of the intention here and i sort of appreciate
38:06
it for that but i mean it is
38:09
batshit and it is stupid okay whatever whatever
38:12
no it's just it's not funny i'm not even laughing we
38:16
do the same thing with stopping my mom and shooting how the fuck you found.
38:19
Anything in that and i said there's a difference
38:21
between paying homage or something and tweaking
38:25
making your own like i always have the good sequel but to
38:28
literally destroy any foundation
38:32
that this series has given you it's completely
38:36
wiped out now it is gone it is
38:39
gone well one two and three never existed
38:43
now it is they're gone it is a universal way from
38:46
the first one it it they're gone and for you to sit there and say that's okay
38:50
well i don't i don't i don't get why people are okay with that it's not so much
38:56
that i'm okay with it i accept it i mean it's i wouldn't accept it i'm a chucky
39:00
fan right i don't give a fuck what you can say that all you want i don't give a fuck.
39:06
I am a tricky fan, but at the same time... The guy pissed. Now,
39:11
Don Messini will grow a fucking pair of balls and finally understand what he
39:17
should be doing, and he will turn it around near the end here.
39:21
Yes. Of this retrospective, I will say that.
39:23
But we're about to talk about two films that I am not going to sit there and
39:27
go, oh, I'm going to suck on the teat.
39:29
I'm not sucking on the teat. You love sucking on the teat of this crap.
39:32
I have admitted that it is butt shit, and the fact that I would say I don't
39:37
get it I don't get it you like to return to Salem's Lot and that was Jesus I
39:41
was like did he care about Salem's Lot at all?
39:45
I can appreciate campy silliness Jesus
39:48
okay alright you know and
39:51
this is basically again come back to what I said earlier this is one for the
39:55
fans in terms of not so much the hardcore fans this is not this is not for the
39:59
truth I mean horror fans in general I'll tell you what this is anybody who says
40:04
they like these two next two films are not Chucky fans.
40:08
Well, that's, you know, a lot of Chucky fans would disagree with that.
40:10
No, no, no, no, no, no. There's no way.
40:12
There is no way anybody who has any, any kind of respect for the first couple
40:18
and put these in there, they are not Chucky fans.
40:22
Well, a lot of Chucky fans would disagree with that. But anyway, I'm not saying.
40:27
And you're right. You're right. I'm probably the outside guy here.
40:31
No, you're not. There's other ones. I just don't fucking get it.
40:32
It's divided the fan base.
40:34
A bunch of clueless twats. Oh, I'm getting nasty. No, it has divided the fan base.
40:41
Yeah, and my divided part is the best part.
40:44
Right. Let's jump back in there. Let's jump back in there. You've upset me now,
40:48
and I have a flu. Right. Oh, boo-hoo.
40:52
But yes, no, at the same time, while I've always been a Chucky fan,
40:56
I'm not going to get sort of like Star Wars fans.
41:00
I'm not going to get possessive over it and get upset over
41:03
like changes and they are and they are big changes especially
41:07
in tone but i'm not gonna i mean at the end of the day it's a film it's a
41:09
film series it's it's entertainment so i'm not gonna like you
41:12
know throw the toys out of the pram like you are but anyway
41:15
so i'm not gonna it doesn't piss me off it
41:19
does take a bit of getting used to especially watching the first three you know
41:24
and then watching this straight after for this retrospective it is a big jump
41:28
but you know in and of itself it's an hour and a half of I was entertained yeah but let's continue,
41:38
so yeah Chucky doesn't want to get married so she imprisons him yes in a playpen
41:43
which is pretty much saving his marriage yeah.
41:48
Yeah, she lies next to her. This is my best pass on. Pass, skip that.
41:52
I'm going to skip that. Okay.
41:54
I'm going to skip that. Well, you may make a note because my mic's still running.
41:58
I'm on 44 minutes, but you're probably on it. No, no. I mean,
42:00
I'm skipping my notes. You jerk. I'm saying I just don't want you to talk about
42:04
this scene. I'm skipping it. What scene?
42:06
No, I'm not talking about it. I just don't want to talk about it now.
42:08
Right. You huffing now? You throwing the toys out of the pram?
42:11
Yeah. Yeah, I am. You're like Chuckie throwing the toys out of the playpen.
42:14
Yeah, fucking right. Yeah, good place to do it.
42:18
Oh, I like, there's a scene I really like. Go ahead. Best scene in the film.
42:25
I would almost argue it might be the best scene in the franchise. Go ahead.
42:30
Yeah, you see, at least, even though this is a piece of shit,
42:35
I can admit when I see something decent.
42:37
Go ahead. And this was a very beautifully shot scene. So you're retconning,
42:41
are you talking about the sex scene between the two dolls?
42:44
No, that's fucking ridiculous. I'm not watching fucking Team America.
42:50
It is the scene where he kills Tiffany in the bathtub.
42:55
Yes, it is well done. You've got the Bride of Frankenstein playing in the water
42:58
on the TV, which is obviously referencing. Yes.
43:02
And the bubbles. And you see Chucky's face looking at the bubbles like a little kid. Playing with them.
43:09
And you've got these hits of blues in the trailer.
43:14
Yeah. It's an absolutely gorgeous shot.
43:18
It's by far the best shot of the entire film. It's well done.
43:21
And I did also particularly like her whenever she's flicking the TV channels
43:24
just before it. She's watching Murder, She Wrote as well.
43:28
Yeah, I saw that, yeah. There are some jokes at land, to be fair.
43:31
Yeah, no, I will admit when there's some good scenes, but they're far free between. Yeah.
43:38
Now we hear about the amulet. If he finds his dead body where Charles Ray was
43:44
buried, he could take the amulet and wear it, and it will whatever, right?
43:51
But A, that was never mentioned, so you destroyed that whole franchise right there.
43:55
Yeah, it's retconning. You don't ever, ever do that. You know what the problem was?
43:59
Don Mancini never liked the voodoo element of the original, and he didn't write it.
44:04
That was put in by Tom Holland. so that is him basically retconning it because
44:09
that's he didn't like it in the first place you have to fucking work with it let it go,
44:15
you're retconning it it's his cardinal role, you just don't do it but he does
44:20
it and here's what I don't get why would he be buried with the amulet how do
44:25
they know his body is going to have it on him.
44:28
Well this is it whenever he was buried did they allow him to keep it on him
44:33
they've even got some bad photoshop where they've retconned the photo from the
44:39
first film of him dying in the toy store.
44:42
And they've put, like, it's bad Photoshop with the amulet on him.
44:46
He didn't even have that in the original. Yeah, I know. I know. I know.
44:50
Well, but it's your favorite film, so that's cool.
44:54
Your favorite fucking film. No, it does niggle me because I am in a picker for things like that.
44:59
In fact, it is probably the thing that niggles me the most with this.
45:03
I hated the jesse jade story
45:06
these two fucking whiny ass pricks i wanted
45:10
them dead i love you let's get married tonight i'm
45:13
like fuck off and he's like yeah i all have to do is drop these two dolls off
45:17
at this site and i'll get an extra five hundred dollars that's a thousand dollars
45:23
baby i can take care of you how fucking old are you do you really think that
45:26
money's gonna take you for You stupid fucking idiot I actually found Jessie To be quite likeable But,
45:34
Jade was pretty annoying What?
45:36
Jade was pretty unlikable actually Well it's Catherine Hagel I know he likes
45:40
her Well I mean I know very little about her But But here The character I know
45:45
she's got a bad reputation But I know The character she plays here Is not very
45:49
likeable Or relatable You know who the best character is?
45:51
The most likeable character David And he's also the smartest character Yeah
45:55
I'll give you that one David is a good character. Yeah. And the smartest?
46:01
Dominic C. Came back as somebody, which I couldn't, because Dominic C.
46:05
As we know, he's gay. Yes.
46:07
He goes, they always ask him, I can't, why did you kill the only gay character in the film?
46:13
And he goes, are you kidding me?
46:16
For years, straight white men have been getting slaughtered in these films forever.
46:22
So I can't kill a gay guy? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, plus it's fiction, obviously, you know?
46:29
Yeah. I just like that comeback. He's like, Jesus. Yeah. Yeah.
46:34
Yeah. But again, then you got the chief, you know, John Ritter,
46:38
and he's going to set up Jesse with his weed.
46:41
I'm like, what is the point of this? He wants Jesse outside because he doesn't
46:45
think he's suitable for Jade.
46:47
Is it because she has money coming to her? No, it's because they're from money.
46:53
Have you gone by their house? No, I don't think he is. I think the parents, her parents are.
46:58
Her parents are. He's the uncle. Yes, I know. but it's heavily suggested that
47:02
her parents are dead and that he is like her legal guardian.
47:05
They come from money. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
47:08
Because he, he, she probably has an inheritance coming. Possibly.
47:13
Possibly. It's not explicitly stated. See?
47:16
The thing is. That's a simple one line fix. I don't want to lose my,
47:19
I don't want to lose my, my niece because I'm raking in the money from the,
47:24
you know, from the will or whatever.
47:26
I think it's more a snobbery thing where he thinks that Jesse is trailer park
47:29
trash and not good enough for Jade.
47:32
So that's why he's looking to get him offside, essentially, by planting the
47:37
drugs on him, which Chucky and Tiffany get stoned on.
47:41
And then he turns into Pinhead from Hellraiser. Yeah, that was a stupid death. It looked so fake.
47:47
I do appreciate the line, though, where Chucky, after he's got all the pins
47:52
in him, Chucky looks at him and says, why does this look so familiar?
47:56
You know so yes while it is a bit of a corny death it is a good line by Chucky
48:01
there are some good one liners here by Chucky I have to say.
48:05
There's a couple but it's just it's Brad Dorff's tone his voice and his tone
48:10
well of course yeah it's what sells it you know yeah but he's had good lines
48:14
in all the films really yes,
48:17
but yeah this is basically a road movie as well you know so this is multi-layered
48:22
stuff here okay stop you stop We're not watching fucking Shawshank Redemption.
48:28
Don't use the term multi-layered in this fucking film. Why didn't yelp?
48:32
Fucking multi-layered that fucking right now that I do like okay another scene at the fan yeah,
48:39
there's another scene I enjoyed that was a beautiful shot see good stuff being
48:44
open yeah is the waterbed exploding when the
48:48
new the married couple get the she throws a champagne bottle yes in the in the
48:54
ceiling of glass yeah and the glass you know embeds them but it also pops their
48:59
waterbed it's a beautiful explosion shot it's actually quite Although there
49:02
is some ropey early CGI in there, you know, with the glass shards coming down on them,
49:06
but it is a good death. That's petty. That's petty.
49:09
It does stand out a bit, but I would say that straightly following this,
49:14
where Chucky realizes, you know, we talk about character arcs.
49:17
This is Chucky's journey to realizing that he actually does love Tiffany.
49:21
And do you know what? It brought a tear to my eye. It's a very beautiful scene.
49:24
So it is. You're a fucking idiot. Yeah, the sex scene.
49:28
The best line in the film. it was all improv'd yeah
49:32
wait do you have a rubber look at
49:35
me i'm all rubber she goes
49:38
i thought you were plastic yeah and
49:43
yes that was ad-libbed by tilly yeah yeah so yeah it's so stupid too the whole
49:52
jesse thinks jade's the killer and jade thinks jesse's the killer david gets
49:57
you know the smart one gets involved, which I do like is death.
50:01
I think it's funny because it's very final destination. You just don't see it
50:04
coming. I don't expect it as well.
50:05
Exactly. And it's a nice blend of practical with some CGI to clean it up. Yeah.
50:11
But you don't notice it. It's actually really nicely done. And it's good jump scare as well.
50:15
So, because you thought he'd be the hero to kind of resolve everything,
50:19
but they take him out pretty quickly, which I do think that's clever.
50:23
And again, this team has been together for a while doing these films.
50:26
So they are going to be good when they do something good because we've seen it in the past films.
50:31
That's why I'm so angry that it's wasted on a piece of shit like this.
50:37
No, I mean, I think that's a legitimate response. I'm not trying to be... No, fair enough.
50:41
I think my points are valid. No, no.
50:44
You know, just the way you say it, a piece of shit like this,
50:47
it's a very you thing to say.
50:49
You know what I mean? While you're making serious points, you'll also be crass at the same time.
50:54
Or like a classy guy like myself, who'll talk about the multi-layers of this
50:59
filament. Classic piece of shit.
51:02
But you know what I mean? Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I have a touch of class
51:05
about me where I talk about the different layers and stuff, you know, to this epic.
51:09
Yeah, layers of shit. There's another good shot I like. Wow, see? Go ahead.
51:17
When, and I kind of feel sorry for her, when they shoved Tiffany in the oven.
51:21
Yes. And it's all black, and then you see her, her face is black because she's
51:26
burning, but you can see her faintly through the gray, the smoke in the oven,
51:30
and you can see her face coming through it.
51:32
It's actually very effective. And actually, I would say your heart does go out
51:37
for Tiffany, especially with these towards the end here.
51:40
It's a doomed love story, you know, and I know it's completely preposterous.
51:45
It's about two dolls, but for all intents and purposes and for what we do get,
51:50
it's generally played well. And you do feel sorry for her.
51:54
You know, my mom used to always say, you know what I mean?
51:57
The guy has to do the dishes or whatever it is. You know, get yourself a good
52:01
man. Why are all the good men taken?
52:05
You know? Oh, my God. Yeah, when she says, when Tiffany helps,
52:09
Jade, you're a lucky girl.
52:12
You got a good one there or something like that. Yeah, keep him. Fuck me. Yeah.
52:15
Fuck me. Here we go. But I would say that the stuff in the cemetery is quite
52:21
gothic and sort of well done. You know, when Chuckie sees his own dead body,
52:25
essentially, and it freaks him out. That's not at all. You know?
52:30
It's not. It's not. And if you fucking use the word atmospheric, I'm going to kill you.
52:35
Would you not agree, though, that this film has... By the way,
52:39
it's great to see the guy from Scanners in this playing the cop,
52:41
but would you not agree that this film has a fantastic final score at the end?
52:48
Oh, the fucking baby? Yeah. That's a brilliant final score.
52:53
You cannot deny that. That's a brilliant... Are you saying that's brilliant?
52:56
You just used the word brilliant for this type of film. For this type of film,
52:59
yes, it is. And the baby jumps on Preston's face. Yes.
53:03
For this type of film. That is brilliant. That's brilliant to you. It's really good. Yeah.
53:08
Yeah. It's really, for this type of film, it is a very funny.
53:13
And at the time, obviously, at
53:15
the time, we didn't know that Seated Chucky was going to be coming next.
53:19
So, and, you know, really works actually. And I think it's a very fun final score.
53:25
And it also, you know what I mean? this is sort of
53:28
you know it's a tightly scripted here because you know it follows on
53:30
from the doll sex scene jesus christ
53:34
dude tightly scripted multi-layer what
53:39
what who the fuck pissed
53:42
in your cheerios man i mean what the fuck are you
53:44
eating today i'm not the one bitching about it
53:47
so who pissed in your cheerios you know what
53:50
the hell we're gonna end this we're just gonna end it
53:53
i don't even want to hear your final fucking thoughts all right
53:56
we'll be back
53:59
with yes the seat of chucky and
54:02
then things start turning back to what i want to see darker toned brutal violence
54:10
still with enough camp in there to enjoy it we're going to start with what i
54:14
believe is the curse of chucky curse of chucky yeah and then there's another
54:18
one and then we're going to talk the remake.
54:20
Yes. Which all fans are going to boo me on because I'd rather enjoy it.
54:24
All right. That's all we've got. We're going to wrap this one up.
54:27
Guys, give us a shout at citizenframe underscore podcast on Instagram.
54:31
And of course, Facebook.
54:33
Again, that number, if you want to report Trevor for anything,
54:36
especially his fucking review taste, you can always do it at 1-800-Trevor-WTF.
54:43
The Lancer, here's a Lancer job. There's too many people ringing it.
54:47
You know? Yep. Like, what a fuck. multi-layers? What the fuck is this guy talking about?
54:54
Alright guys, thanks for listening.