Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Build Better Relationships in Financial Planning

Transcript

Build Better Relationships in Financial Planning · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Live Podcast, and this week I'm joined by Laura Ripley, Financial Planner at BRI Wealth Management.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Laura is a very successful financial advisor, and she puts a lot of this down to building long-term trusted relationships with her client.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: In this week's episode, we talk about the importance of building those long-term relationships, how you potentially change or switch up your approach when dealing with different clients, the importance of patience and empathy.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is filled with loads of nuggets on wisdom to how to make sure that you're following a really client-centric approach and can build those long-term relationships, which will allow you to be a very successful financial advisor in your own right, just like Laura.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for taking the time to sit with me today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, how are you doing?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really well, thanks.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's lovely to have another chat with you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was saying to Laura, we've become like we're old friends now.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really nice to get you on the podcast to share your story, which fortunately um I've already sort of heard a lot about and been involved with.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's the question that I like to start with everyone.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about your career today and how you've got to the point where you're at now?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, lovely.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I joined the industry back in 20 oh 2007, um, and I started in a very junior role at the time, so it's pretty much you know, making tea, answering the door, setting the meeting rooms up, that sort of role, um, and very quickly got into some of the investment research, which has kind of been my passion throughout my career, um, and then moved into pensions administration uh and then power planning as a technical role.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I then had a pretty much probably six or eight years in a power planning role where I really felt that I came on in my career and sort of built my qualifications and um you know got the technical background.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And my employer at the time, I want to say pushed, encouraged me to take the jump into um the advisor role, which wasn't really something that I felt comfortable with at the time, um, but I'm glad he did.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um, ever since I've been looking after clients, and yeah, it's uh it's brilliant.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's a real lovely part of the job.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really interesting um thing that you noted there because lots of the people that we speak to, you know, on the podcast, outside of the podcast, their long-term ambition is to be a financial advisor, and that is a lot of people that haven't even started in the industry yet, and for a lot of people that are in like power planning roles, but you for yourself, you really enjoyed the power planning side of things.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't know if you wanted to step into advice.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I did enjoy the power planning.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I loved the problem solving part of it, and I loved the technical side of it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I did love seeing the clients, you know.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I attended meetings as a power planner, and I loved being their point of contact and all of that, but it was more the responsibility for me.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that jump was a really big step, you know.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: To the book stops with you now.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you're leading this client relationship, they're putting trust in you, these are real people, and that was a bit of a reality check at the time.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I wasn't quite sure whether that was a jump that I could make, but I'm glad I did, you know.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really looked back.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are difficult times with clients, of course, there are, but it's it is the best part of our job looking after the client relationships.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you um said then like it's a lot of responsibility, it's your it's your name on the end of that line, it's you that they're putting that trust in.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you tackle that like mental hurdle, I guess, of being like, okay, I'm gonna feel confident doing this, and I feel like I am able to take that next step?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's it's funny that you should say confidence because um I think that's part of it, but it wasn't all of it, it was really the responsibility of it, you know.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so much you in an admin role or a power planning, you're you're working away, squirreling away, trying to get people's you know, reports out the door and trying to get their planning in shape and all of that, but you forget sometimes that they're actually real people, and then when you sat in front of them and they've got this trust, you know, however much money they've got, or you know, however uh wide their asset base is, they're putting so much trust in you to look after things, and it was that um the responsibility.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, at the time it took me a long time, you know, it was probably a 12-month transition for me to be full, you know, in an advisor role from power planning.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my employer at the time was the one that sort of gave me the support and encouragement to do that in my own time.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know plenty of other people that have made that jump and done it in you know, half that time or less.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's very much down to the individual, I guess.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, with support and encouragement, I think that was the key thing.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think we've touched then on like the support and encouragement, and how like you didn't necessarily know if you wanted to be an advisor due to that responsibility element.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: What support and encouragement did your employer give you to sort of allow you to make that transition?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah, I'd say my first employer, he's still a friend now, and he's probably one of the most memorable people in my career.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's been my mentor, not just career but personal life and everything.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's really helped me become the person I am.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember him saying something to me because it's his business.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, commercially, you know, I'm charging you out at I don't know,£100 an hour or whatever it was at the time as a power planner, but you're doing an advisor role, you know, you're looking after the client, so I could be charging you out at this rate.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was little things like that.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And look, you lead the conversation on the bits that you're confident on, and I'll pick up the bits that you're not confident until you build that.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was a little bit, you know, little by little, um, just a confidence boost for the extra responsibility.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what he thought.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like that mentorship has really like shaped your career then and sort of like allowed you to become I know the very six, you know, very successful, very good advisor that I know you are?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I do I do think I'm glad I made that move because genuinely this is the part of the job that I love the most.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is if if you don't love that part of the job, you shouldn't be an advisor, you shouldn't be a financial planner.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, nobody wants to do the paperwork side of things.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about talking to the clients, looking after them, helping them through things, planning.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's the fun part, that's the part that you get the satisfaction from.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think looking back, having having made that move at the time, I'm glad I did it.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm glad I took my time in doing it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: But now that responsibility issue is still there.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I feel still feel that pressure, even as um a lead planner on so many clients.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: You still feel that responsibility.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's still a worry when you're looking after clients.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you definitely have to appreciate that the individuals that you're dealing with are people they have their own lives and the plans that you're putting in place are the financial plans that allow them to live their lives and stuff like that.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there is definitely an element of responsibility there.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that makes leads you as a financial advisor to try and build deeper and more trusted relationships with your clients then to feel like that you're able to work in the best way possible for them?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh that's totally.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably the biggest part of a client relationship is the trust element.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because if you can't have that level of trust for them to open up and feel at ease with you and for them to feel confident in what you're doing and and the value that you're adding to their situation, then you're not going to get the best out of them and you're not going to be able to plan best for them going forwards.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think the trust element is really big.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it is different for different clients as well.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have, I don't have one particular type of client.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you do almost have to alter the way you work and approach things sometimes to get the best out of them and to let them feel at ease.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, you might have an elderly couple where you would approach things very different to uh uh you know a middle-aged professional female or something.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it might be two totally different approaches.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it's to let them feel confident and trust you so that they can open up.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and building on this like different approaches for different people.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've spoken, um Laura, about how you have quite um, well, you have like a female client base that you you deal with and you speak to them, and you definitely feel like the approach that is needed with them might be slightly different.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you mind elaborating on that a little bit further?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I don't, I'm not a big I'm not a strong backer of the gender um movement and everything.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I work with all clients and I'm happy to work with all clients, um, but I do have uh a bundle of female professionals or retired professionals um that I work with that I really enjoy working with, and the feedback that I've had is that they enjoy working with me.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't think any two clients are the same, um, so I don't want to put them all in, you know, um shoehorn them all into one um cohort.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think for females, particularly the ones that I dealt with in the past, it takes them a little longer to trust you.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that might mean more of those intro sessions to begin with to get the relationship open.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they also appreciate very straight talking.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just say it how it is, be totally honest.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, don't try and um flower things up to present it in a certain way because most often um they'll see straight through it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um they want to have the time to be able to build that trust with you in a relationship and not feel too rushed.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we spoke about this previously, like, and when we speak about this, we're we're we're generalising, but it's definitely not something that you can ever generalise.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can't taint everyone with the same brush, and you know, as you said, like the the unique that you the approach that you place with each individual is very unique to them and their circumstances.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: But across the board you've found that you know women take a bit more time to to build up that trust and be a bit more open with them.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why do you think that is?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you know, as I've said, we're not generalising, but in this sense, if we sort of do, why do you think it does potentially take a little bit longer for them to build up that trust?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it could be society, and you know, some of the professional women, uh females that I've worked with, they're they're pretty high up in their careers, you know, um, and they've got there through damn hard work, and society hasn't always been fair for them, and they have had to have, you know, challenges in that career that wouldn't have been for a male colleague.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's a common you know conversation.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: The thing about the trust for the women as well, I'll just point out is that I think once they trust you, then that's fair and that's bedded in.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas for some males, perhaps it's more of right, you have to keep going at it along the way.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: But a female is very much right, I might take my time in getting there, but once I'm there, um I'm I'm you know, that trust is is bedded in.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I um I completely agree.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, again, generalising, but I think women um across the board, even if you look at like your your personal relationships, sometimes it takes a lot, a bit, a bit more to break that barrier down, but once it's broken, that's it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're really good friends that friends then and things like that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned then that you know, like building up that element of trust.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: How do you go about that?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do like more introduction conversations with them?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you give them the opportunity to speak with you for for more periods of time or longer periods of time before they officially become a client?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine it requires like a bit of patience, I guess, to get that relationship there.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, again, trying not to generalize, but yeah, exactly that.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have to have um three 20-minute conversations with a woman just to see what's what's happening and what might be topical for them at that time, then that's okay.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that just opens up that do they want to work with you, do they feel comfortable with you?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And are you going to be able to add uh the best value for their situation?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah, it's not uncommon to have probably three or four intro discussions with um a female client, um, whereas perhaps for the males they're much more regimented on following a normal sort of right initial discussion.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to work with me?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you not want to work with me?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right, let's move on.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And build on the approach and the patience, I guess that means you as an advisor has to have that slightly different approach because, and and build really like I guess consultative, trusted, which is the big word that we're using here, relationships.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I have one, I'm putting myself in the position as yourself an advisor.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: If I have one meeting with someone, um, and then then I go, Do you want to work with me?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes or no, that's ultimately going to shy that person away.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess it does with soft skills are so important when being an advisor.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I guess when dealing with this particular bracket of clients, you know, you really need to build on that patience element and allow them to come to you, I guess.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you you the key thing is the soft skills because part of the soft skills is observing.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So observing how the client wants you to engage with them.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not suggesting that we're all fake and we just change our change our approach to to best, you know, work with whoever we need to work with, but it it does make a difference to a client.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So in a financial planner role, you kind of observe how they react and their body language, you know, and then you can change your approach to uh to meet what they want, um, what what sort of opens them up easily.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess like um patience is a um a really good soft skill that we've built on, but that adaptability as well.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you spoke about previous um earlier on in the conversation, like elderly clients.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I guess if you're going to meet with an elderly couple, you might approach that conversation or actual say things in a slightly different way to, you know, a professional female that you're meeting in her 20s or her 30s.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's again, not saying that it's fake or anything like that, but you've just got to have slight twinges to your approach to make sure that I I presume to ensure that you're performing the best way or acting the best way possible for that particular client.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it isn't just about um their needs because those two different types of clients will have totally different needs.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not only that is gonna diff uh differ because you'll have to present that in different ways, but absolutely how you engage with people um is gonna be entirely different for those two different types of clients.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: If we go back to the like the patience element and you know, you speaking to your bundle of female clients, you know, we speak a lot more, we speak more and more about wealth in women.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, I think you even might have given me a statistic, Laura, with like the percentage of female millionaires there will be in the future, you know, women are more and more as society changes, you know, are naturally holding more wealth.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think if financial planners or financial advisors go by this more traditional, rigid approach, it could ultimately stop them from accessing that female client bank or prevent them from feeling like they can access the advice?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, there is a bit of that, but I think our I hate calling it industry, it should be professional.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Profession has come on so much over recent years, um, and you do see so many fantastic female financial planners out there that are really doing their thing for you know females that that need the financial planning advice.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think it's that they're gonna not find somebody to work with.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and typically, you know, females are spending the time to research who they want to work with anyway, so they're going and they're gonna have a look at three or different four, three or four different female financial planners they might want to work with.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: They might even interview them, they might, you know, do their own thing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and so there's plenty of them to choose from.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I would say it's just making sure that we continue that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think our profession at the minute is doing enough to get young people, young females into the financial planning role.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're still seeing so many of those uh male colleagues that are coming through the ranks, but you're not seeing as many females.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've obviously, you know, a great financial advisor, and you obviously had that element of encouragement into doing the financial planner role.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you go back then and saying that we almost need to encourage, continue to encourage more women into the profession, I know it's a big question, but how do you think we could go about doing that?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think encouragement is good, um, but I think also just empowering them a little bit to understand that you don't have to follow this style of your mentor, like mine was a male, um, having a bloody good financial planner, the best.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but he had his own style, um, and that was never going to be my style.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it's just empowering you to be confident in um absorbing from your colleagues, learn in those early years when you're doing your qualifications and everything, um, just be at as many meetings as you possibly can, um, get comfortable with clients and different types of clients, and then create and let your own style evolve as you come.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's okay.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that will work as long as you've got the soft skills there that's going to work with clients.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for people that are like finding their groove as an advisor at the moment, maybe they are building on their style.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I guess what tips and tricks could you give to someone or advice on what you think is important for them to bear in mind?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know we spoke about like patients and things like that, but um, you know, what what do you think?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: What elements, what soft skills are really important to allow that a wide client, a wide, a broad variety of people can come to you and sort of seek that financial advice.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's so difficult because um people that are they're focused so much on doing the qualifications, they're focused so much on doing the exams, and then it hits them, they're like, oh my god, I've got to work on my soft skills as well.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know it's a hard time when you're doing those exams.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: It felt hard for me as well.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm still doing exams now, you're constantly doing them, it never, never finishes.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the soft skills is almost more important than so don't leave that until the last minute and attend as many meetings as you possibly can, you know, even if you're on the sidelines taking minutes or whatever it might be, you know, soak up um lots of different styles of planners, you know, ask all of your financial planners at your firm whether you can attend meetings with them, see how they work with different clients.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's all about soaking it all up and absorbing it, and that will give you the confidence to go out and then have your own style and your own clients.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there is a lot of um like learning from other people.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: We've spoken about like patience and like that, you know, for you you are very client-centric, you really build those trusted long-term relationships with your clients.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: What soft skills do you feel like really allow you to achieve that?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think again, everyone's different, but empathy is obviously the the big one in you've got to let the client talk.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: In a client meeting, they should be talking a lot more than you are.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to get across the compliance stuff, you've got to, you know, if it's a review or whatever, you've got to give them that that that set data, but they should be telling you what's important to them about their goals.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's all about asking, you know, the the normal open questions, uh, let them speak, let them feel comfortable with you to open up and tell you everything that's important to them.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess when we go back to like um a female client base that we touched on previously, do you think um that empathy element is especially important with for them?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they take a while to build up trust, once that barrier is broken and they start talking to you about things, I can presume you've really got to empathise with their situation.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you do, but what you know, they're all different.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's important to them?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you will learn that in that process as you get to know clients, you'll learn what's important to them.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, no two client conversations are going to be the same, and you won't have the same approach to two client conversations.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, there is that element with female clients, but very much around that trust.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to nail that trust with them in those first you know, few meetings.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it can be a long slog sometimes because, as I say, they they probably take longer over that decision than um than males.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you obviously said then like letting them speak and and you know, in those initial client meetings, it really should be um an opportunity for them to explain their situations.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess as you mentioned, like trust comes with time, but have you got any particular things that you do to try and build that trust, to allow them to trust in you?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just being honest?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it being transparent?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it it's definitely a process and it's very easy, it's not very easy to pin something down to it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: But have you got anything that you do personally to try and navigate that so they do feel like they can trust you?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think the obvious one is it'll be on everybody's list is you know, that first meeting, you have to build rapport.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if that means that you let them talk for 45 minutes on their recent trip to Egypt or whatever, then you let them talk for 45 minutes on Egypt, you know, ask questions, delve into it because it's important to them.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um If they want to tell you about it, then it's important to them.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's key.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can do that in the first session, then it typically means that they're a bit more comfortable in talking about the finances um and and the things that you know, the facts and figures later on in the discussion.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and obviously, you're someone that as we've mentioned now loves the relationship side of things.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's really what gets you out of bed in the morning?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like knowing that you're gonna dear client that you've got a good relationship with, and knowing that, oh you know, John here, you've managed to put that plan together and you're gonna get to speak to John about it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what really gets you excited?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, you know, if I wake up in the morning and I've got multiple meetings in my diary, that's a good day for me.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Multiple client meetings is a happy day.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that's not probably the most uh efficient way to run because you've got to do your notes and you've got to do the compliance bits and you've got to do office and management and all the rest of it that comes in between.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that is the best day, is when you've got multiple client meetings, yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, do you think then, like going back to yourself, I guess when you're in those power planning roles, you mentioned that you were always like very investment focused, like to be involved with that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you had to take that encouragement to take that leap.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it was that genuine passion in terms of like loving to be with clients that really made you you made you do that shift?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think other people that maybe are in those back office positions might be feel a bit nervous about actually leading those meetings or things like that, but they just love speaking and being with clients?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel then like being an advisor could potentially be the right role for them?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, that's great.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, the advisor role is the best.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is fantastic looking after clients, um, but it isn't for everyone.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I know so many power planners who are career power planners and they're bloody good as well.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're really fantastic.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's fine, you know.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want that client-facing role, then that's fine, and that will give you all the job satisfaction you want because you're still doing the problem solving and the solutions and the technical aspects, um, but you just haven't got that client bit.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if if you're going to be a financial planner, you've got to love that part of the job, the client relationship, because that is the priority, is leading the relationship.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you said then as well, like previously, about the qualifications, it's a continuous journey, don't you?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You you do your level four and then it's your your charted exams, and then how can you get to your fellowship?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I do appreciate that that it's it's a continuous thing throughout your whole career, it doesn't end as soon as you've got your the level four diploma.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you touched on earlier on how the scoff soft skills are just as important, if not even more important.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why do you think that?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think that's more than half of our job is is the client relationships.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think um I don't think in a client meeting I use the technical knowledge necessarily that I've learned in my qualifications.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a chartered and I'm a fellow, and you know, I've done pretty much every single CII exam going, I think.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think I I use that often in client meetings.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's much more about opening clients up, letting them talk, hearing, observing, listening.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, there is going to be technical questions thrown at you, and you've got to think on the spot as well.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, particularly in those initial discussions, you've got to have your um, you know, your planning hat on and understand where the conversation is going so you can display and present to the client how you're going to add value to the situation.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you need the technical part of that, but you know, you're not going to be quizzed on this in a client meeting, it's just not going to happen.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um the soft skills is much more important.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I guess even in a client meeting, if a client asks you something that you couldn't remember off the top of your head, you can always go, Oh, I'll I'll I'll come back to you on that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: But if you potentially don't handle a situation the best way possible, you can't go back, you can't change that really, can you?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm sure everybody's got a pocket full of those standard um responses.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's an interesting question, you know, to find yourself a little bit of time, or let me come back to you on that at the end of the conversation and then casually forget to do it.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's constant, you know, we've we've all got those in our pocket to use in that scenario where you haven't got the answer there and then and you need to go and check it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that happens, and there's no shame in that in that you haven't got everything to hand.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, quite a lot of people will have, certainly, some of the recent clients I've been looking after, they've had such complex tax situations.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to know that, I'm not a tax advisor, I'm a financial planner.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go away and check that for you.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go and ask a colleague or you know, an accountant or tax advisor to help me with that, to give you the best guidance.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that's okay.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's no shade in that at all.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and clients will appreciate that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: They don't expect you to know everything either.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they don't know everything.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but as long as you can have the confidence that you're the right person to do the job and go and find it for them, then I think that's that's that's a done deal, isn't it?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the confidence they need.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it all goes back to building that trust.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would much prefer to ask someone a question and then go, oh, that's a really good question.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'll come back to you on that, rather than spinning me a yarn, and I can sort of tell they're spinning me a bit of a yarn because that damages the trust element.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we're all human at the end of the day.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can't expect to know everything.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that even further elevates you building your report because it shows that your financial planner, like you, is a human being.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there is so much, like I say, those tricks that people will learn is that you know, when that question comes and you haven't got the answer and you have to say, I'll come back to you, quickly divert the conversation to something something that you can add value to there, and then you know, um, it's helpful to have experience of being asked a question that you don't know the answer to, and it will happen where you waffle on about something and then think, What on earth am I talking about?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got to move on.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, just don't be honest with the clients, uh, they'll appreciate that.
• 28:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you go into your client meetings, we've mentioned like this adaptability soft skill, you know, your approach with, you know, a conversation that you're having with a female advert a female and you're looking to potentially bring them on board, it's going to be very different to a conversation that you have with a family, you know, in their mid-50s, which will be very different to a conversation that you have um with like an elderly couple.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you prepare for your meetings in a particular way, dependent on who you'll be meeting, or is it very much like this observing and sort of going with the flow?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, further down the line, you you're doing prep for every single meeting, but that initial discussion, that right, that might be the first time you've ever spoken to that client.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So all you're pretty much going to do, particularly if it's a professional female, is check out where they work, you know.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got a bit to talk about, a little bit of background on that, you know, look on LinkedIn for that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you're going there to work out whether you like them, whether they like you, whether you can add value, and whether they want to work to with you.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, what what prep are you going to do for that?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have the answers to go away and prep.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very much about going to that initial discussion with um the bare minimum information, um, just to open up conversations and keep that conversation going and work out whether you you know you can add value to the situation, really.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're meeting someone like that's further on down the line, like even let's say you've got three meetings in your diary today, they're both are people that you've got established, you know, relationships with, but as you said, they're all unique in their situation and their age brackets and everything, because you have to be adaptable with the client, the with the clients, and their the approaches are gonna be slightly different.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like prepare for a different approach or do you just sort of write your meeting notes and let's go with it kind of thing?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, there is a couple of bits.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably can't believe I'm gonna say this.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: But some clients, it's like it's it's even down to what you wear that you might prepare differently.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some clients you will wear a suit, some clients would laugh at you if you walked in at suit, some clients you'll wear your hair down, some definitely you wear your hair up, you know.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, and this is probably me building this up rather than the clients.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but but that's what you do, that's the adaptability and preparation, I would say, on those different approaches.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of your um, you know, your notes and and your preparation like that, then it depends on how far down the line they are in that process or onboarding process.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, you're gonna have your um data.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got data on the clients, then you're gonna have those gaps that you need to fill.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have a list of items that you need to get from that meeting.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now that doesn't mean that you sit there and quiz them and ask closed questions, it means that you let them talk.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if at the end you have to say, look, just give me two minutes, let me just scan through my notes and make sure I've got everything, then do that.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: I actually really resonate with what you're saying in terms of like wearing different things because it it is that approachability and that adaptability.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: We I mentioned this to you before when you know I'm in my mid-20s.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: If I was seeking a financial advisor, I would probably feel a bit uncomfortable if someone walked in in a suit and I'm hearing trainers and like a hoodie.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that wouldn't be probably something that would allow me to open up very quickly.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: While if someone came in and I looked at their trainers, I went, Oh, they're nice trainers, and I sort of like they were dressed almost to mirror me.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I probably feel a lot more comfortable to quicker be like, okay, I feel like this person gets me, I feel like this person understands me.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like it comes across as something, a comment that you make might make a little bit on surface value.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I totally appreciate that even down to the way that you dress, you know, it makes you come across and convey slightly differently.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And different people want different things.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it is at the end of the day with it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, like if you're a financial advisor that has it is isn't just focused on one particular niche, you know, and a really good advisor that can provide advice to to loads of different people from different age brackets and different stages, different careers, you know, you've got to tweak XYZ just to make sure that you know everything oh your approach your approach encompasses everything.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um I'm gonna be honest, I'm the wrong side of 40 to be showing up to a meeting with ripped jeans and trainers.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm um, but yeah, there is a big difference in what I would wear between those two sort of types of clients, definitely.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I will not be wearing ripped jeans and trainers.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Rip jeans, I'm not the biggest fan of, anyway.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you can just have normal jeans on.
• 32:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but we've obviously spoken then a lot about like um these different soft skills and how having them will allow you to build those really deep trusted client relationships, which is what you've got.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know that you've changed role recently, and I know that you had clients that would come with you um moving forward, and that is because of the deep trusted relationships that you've built.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for someone, for example, in the audience who's listening to this and goes, okay, you know, maybe I am being a bit too transactional with my approach.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I am thinking for it for myself as an advisor, what can I gain rather than always putting my clients first?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what tips or tricks would you give them to try and make their approach a bit more client-centric?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good point.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, um, I have to admit, I'm I've never been very good at the commercial side of it, which is my employer's probably not going to thank me for saying, but I'm just very good at that.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I always manage to, you know, meet the need in that part of it, but um, it isn't my first thought when I go into a meeting.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't think I'm a perfect financial planner in any way, and that's probably one area that I do fall down on quite a lot, um, is on charging and making sure the fees coming in, being much more commercial and transactional about it.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I have to say, I don't think that's what clients expect to hear normally.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think they'd much rather have an open conversation, particularly in those initial discussions where they feel comfortable with somebody and to open them up.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think be yourself, but also be um engaging and observant of the type of person that you're talking to.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because in that initial discussion, especially, I think it is all about working out whether you want to work with that person or not and whether you can have value.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it is a bit of an interview process, that like um initial conversation.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've got to see if the the person wants to work with with you, and you've got to almost like sell yourself and build that rapport so they feel like when they leave that conversation, they do want to work with yourself.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's odd, isn't it?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, that sales role that just doesn't normally come, you know, it doesn't come natural to me at all.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also I don't want to work with everyone, you know, everyone that comes through the door, they're not for me.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost we're interviewing or I'm interviewing them as well.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because if I if I don't get along with them, or that sounds awful, doesn't it?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or if there's a bit of a personality clash, or if I feel that I'm not going to be able to get the best out of you in this in this scenario, then I won't work with them.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's fair to say.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you pass them to a colleague perhaps, or give them a colleague's name.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's such a personal, it's such a people's business that you've got to get along with that person, and you've got to feel as well that you can justify your fees by adding enough value.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a situation that really doesn't need much, then um again, I would probably turn them away or pass them to somebody else that can do it and justify.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really interesting point there, Laurel, because we've spoken so much about trust and you building someone else, you know, um you building someone else's trust.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess they've also got to build trust with you then, because if you don't feel like you know you're gonna have synergy between them, it might not be the best client for you.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I it sounds so weird, but you know, has there been times when you've turned away business and and gone to people, you know, I I don't think this is is gonna work and decided, you know, to park it after an initial conversation?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I think there's been a couple of situations.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: One, the most recent one was um I don't say I wouldn't say I've turned her away, uh, but a lady who she's had a really difficult couple of years for um reasons she separated from her husband, she's going through a messy divorce, all of that.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time she came to me, she was all over the place.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: She was all over the shop.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought that I know, and she was very, very I want you to do this, I want you to do this, this is my situation.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just get this all sorted?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, I can't, because I don't feel that you're in the right frame of mind to be making this sort of decision.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's do this so we know it's all safe for now, and then go away, get yourself sorted, um, you know, settle your thoughts and everything, and then come back and see me because I didn't feel at the time I was going to be working well with that person that they've just had this hideous couple of years and their emotions are all running over the place, and they were chopping and changing their mind on what was important to them and their goals, you know.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Go take the time, it's still going to be here in 12 or 18 months' time.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just go do that, you know, lick the lick your wounds or whatever the phrase is and just um let the dust settle and come back to me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I did send her away, um, and I hope she comes back in uh 12 or 18 months' time.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I sent her to use a life coach basically and go away and get a little bit of help with um, you know, the the softer things in her life, and then come back and we'll deal with the finances when she's ready.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that sounds it doesn't sound counterproductive because I I totally get where you're coming from, but it might sound counterproductive to to people to go that there is people in the people that you almost like decide that you don't want to work with when if we talk about commercial aspects, you might think every person that stepped through that door, I'm gonna turn them into a client XYZ.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think the importance for you personally?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a a bat a client bank of clients that you've got really long, um, you know, really trusted long-term relationships with.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think part of that is because there are some people that, as you've mentioned there, and you just aren't the best person to work with them or isn't the right time, or things like that?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it's all about building the long-term relationships because that's when they reap the rewards, but you know, so do we basically, um, and you get the best out of them.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And efficiencies come as well with that relationship.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the second year, you don't need to get all those facts and figures about how many grandchildren, where they're living, and all of that.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're just getting the nice little updates.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and building it over long term, then that's how both parties kind of reap the rewards, I guess.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Before we sign off, I've got two final questions for you.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my first being that um we have spoken a lot about soft skills here and a lot about the importance of those trusted client relationships.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: What th what three soft skills do you think are the most important in allowing you to build those um trusted client relationships?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so definitely the adaptability of um your approach.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to be flexible in your approach to which what the client needs and how best to make them feel at ease.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: The second one is definitely observing, um, make sure you're observing how the client is engaging with you and try and reflect some of that back so that they feel at ease again.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also the empathy, you know, um, I'm not sure that's quite the right word, but I think it's appreciating what's important to that person.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said about the Egyptian holiday, I don't know where I've got that from, but I'm sure somebody was talking to me recently about uh some trip down the Nile or something that was uh, you know, I wanted to get on and talk about this because I had a list of things I wanted to talk to, but they wanted to talk to me about that.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: That was important to them, and uh yeah, they did waffle on about it for 45 minutes, but that's okay.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can just squeeze out a bit into the last 15 minutes and we'll be fine.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think I think that side of it as well, definitely.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely I think the empathy is definitely the right word.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's empathizing with yeah, what's important to them, you know, what they want to discuss, what they want to talk about.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my last question for you is um obviously, yeah, you know, those long, like those trusted, those client relationships is what's really important to you, what allows you to thrive.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: We've mentioned earlier on which what gets you out of bed in the morning.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can't state too much details, but have you got like a little story or a little anecdote, sort of maybe about your relationship with a client or something that you've been able to to how how you've been able to help a client that just symbolises like how great those those relationships are and the value that you can really add or they can really add?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm I'm just helping um a lady at the moment.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is another divorcee, actually.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether I've got myself a little niche coming there with divorcees.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um she is in the right frame of mind, she's a very uh independent woman, incredibly strong, but she has had also a hideous couple of years.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we have just had a meeting this morning, actually, before I met you, and we're ready to write up the report, and we've done some modelling work looking at her options now that the final order is through from her divorce.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like you can see the relief in her face when I tell her, look, this is going to be okay, and you know, here's the chart to show you that you're gonna be okay, and whichever option you now pick, whether you you know move into this house or get a new mortgage or whatever, you're going to be okay.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, giving her a really at the start of the meeting, I even did it.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I said, look, these are your two T two key takeaways from today is you're gonna be all right, whichever option you pick, you're gonna be alright.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this is you know, you know, will make the finances work, which they do in her case, because she's actually she's got a great asset base and she's managed to work really hard, really, really hard.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really proud of the way that she's um come through the last couple of years, and I look forward to working with her from now on.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and obviously it's really good for yourself, isn't it?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like A, you can see that relief, but also you know you've added that value, and you know that like the plan that you've been able to put in place in front of her has given her that feeling which spans beyond the professional sphere, which spans everything, really.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Laura, and really highlighting the importance of a client-centric approach, those trusted client relationships, what soft skills we need to get there, and just giving us some great examples of how you know those relationships really can add value to your life as a financial advisor, but um also to the lives of the clients that you get to work with.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, thank you very much.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you very much, Elena.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, chat to you soon.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm sure you will.