Latest / Relatively Functional Dads / Bonus Episode 001 - The Pressure of Perfect Parenting
Transcript
- The Boys And Audio: welcome to the Relatively Functional Dads podcast for fathers doing their best and learning every day. We're just three relatives walking through faith, fatherhood, and real life together. That was me. ⁓ experts here, just honest conversations about the wins, the struggles, and the moments that shape us as men and dads. Some days we've got it together, other days we're just trying to get to bedtime, but we keep showing up. And if you're dad... ⁓ Buddy: dads, why is it that we can crush 90 % of the things we do as fathers and yet we often still feel like we're failing? I mean, that's a B plus in school. That gets you in the Hall of Fame in pretty much any sport that you play, whether that's completion percentage, free throw percentage, ⁓ batting average. You'd be a Hall of Famer, first ballot, but as dads, when you mess up one out of 10 times, it's something that you, it weighs on you very heavily. And it's because the... The Boys And Audio: In the middle of it too, you're in the right place. Let's journey through this together. Buddy: What's at stake is a lot more than passing a course or winning a game. Obviously, it is the most important and precious gift in the world that it is your responsibility to lead and lead your household well. That's why it weighs heavy on you. what if those stakes, the things that you're taking so seriously, what if those are the things that are slowly crushing you and maybe prohibiting you from growing as a dad? So that's why today we want to talk about the pressures of perfection within parenting. why that matters for dads and not just dads, but also for moms. And because of that, we are bringing in our first female ⁓ guest on our podcast. And I'm going to share a little bit why we are bringing in Morgan here in a moment. But one of the reasons why we wanted to get a mom's perspective on this is one, so dads, you can know what your wife, your baby mama, maybe your own mom has gone through or is going through. and so that you can come alongside and support them, but then also just as importantly as ⁓ moms also experience things though maybe sometimes a little differently ⁓ in ways that compliment or come alongside of us. So I think Morgan, I know Morgan's gonna have a lot to share today so we can support the women in our lives we love, but also as dads step into this tension of wanting to be better dads, but not having the weight of perfection crush us either. So. The reason why I wanted to bring in Morgan is not just because she helps co-host an awesome podcast. I'm gonna have her share a little bit more about that here in a moment. not just because she's a mom of two young kiddos, ⁓ because I've walked alongside of her ⁓ her husband Cole, who's one of my best friends, ⁓ I have seen them in real time live this out. In real time, what it looks like to show up day in ⁓ day out and though not perfect, growing in the right direction and their kids are just a joy to be around. ⁓ Morgan, welcome to the podcast. ⁓ You are now officially a relatively functional dad, and we're so glad to have you today. Morgan Selecman: There we go. There we go. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm honored to be your first guest. Buddy: Absolutely, absolutely. So share with us a little bit. I'll talk. We'll have you talk about your family here in a moment, but I want to hear a little bit and share a little bit more with our listeners. ⁓ That's a win. The podcast that you co-host with Rachel and just the point of that. So if our our friends and listeners want to follow along, can. Morgan Selecman: Yeah, so that's A Win podcast. started it with my best friend, Rachel of, man, I don't even know how many years we've been best friends since fifth grade. ⁓ And I think we just see it as a way to ⁓ the real parts about motherhood, the ⁓ honest and vulnerable about things, but also with a positive take on it and encouraging take on it. I think it's easy to harp on negative things, but I think when we. ⁓ really reflect and the podcast helps us to really sit down and reflect about things, to really celebrate. I mean, celebrate the wins. feel like as cheesy as that sounds, it's just, there's small wins we have every day, big wins, you know, and just help, help you to have that mindset about more, just positive and encouraging take on it. So. Buddy: Absolutely, and I think ⁓ just to know you're not alone. So like you see both the struggle and the celebrations, the things that make you happy, make me happy, the things that are hard for you, hard for me, because community can be lacking and these podcasts can be a kind of a surrogate sense of community until you maybe find some of those relationships. I was listening to your last episode talking about just the need to like invest in yourself and take care of yourself as a mom or as a parent. Make sure you guys go check that out. Morgan Selecman: Mm. Buddy: Because those are just truths and reminders that we need to give ourselves permission to invest in ourselves so we can show up as parents in the best way possible. yeah, in traditional that's a win fashion, let's go ahead and hear, do you have a win from the last week or two? Share with us a win and give us a little insight into kind of your family dynamics so our listeners kind of know the ages of your kids. Morgan Selecman: OK, yeah, definitely, definitely have a win prepared. you're you got me on that one. But so OK, I'll start out with talking about my kids. We have a six year old or sorry, an almost six year old and a three and a half year old. You cannot forget the half on that one. That's very important. ⁓ And yeah, I've been married to my husband, Cole, for 10 years. We just celebrated in December. ⁓ And we just we really value just. Buddy: Absolutely. Morgan Selecman: family time together, getting outside of the house, going to the park, going to the zoo, stuff like that. ⁓ And we have a really sweet community of friends that we've just really been doing life together here. And so that's been a huge blessing and a huge encouragement when you are doing life with other people and you're sharing in that day to day and you share your burdens and you share your joys and it just really brings you closer. ⁓ A win that we had this week is we just had a really sweet family day night the other day just one of those times that makes you like you're in a year like this this is the life you know like this is that this is what we're miss you know just that this week surreal moments and we and it was just a simple thing but my son jude he ⁓ he's older one he's almost six years old and during his quiet time all on his own we came to get him out you know in the afternoon and he's like i set up a Buddy: happening. Morgan Selecman: scavenger hunt for you and dad and you have to find like he set up these little pictures of our eggs that we had to find these Easter eggs are different colors and then we had different Different prizes that we got at the end and we got to the end of our prize and he gave us both like six dollars each out of his piggy bank and he's like we were like, ⁓ my gosh, we got money and So we ended up taking that money and ⁓ went and got some Dairy Queen ice cream cones. know Buddy: Go. Sure, what a smart investment on his behalf, because he's going to get more than $6 back. Morgan Selecman: And Cole's like, we can't spend this money. And I'm like, we have to come on. Let's let's go get ice cream. But it was just a sweet, simple family night. And I just feel like it's just like those moments that are like, I don't know, you can just feel like you're living the dream truly of like what we prayed for and wished for and hoped for for so long. You know, we grew up as high school sweethearts. So we always were like, I can't wait to get married and have kids. And like, we're like, we're living this like we are living our dream right now. And Buddy: Yeah. Morgan Selecman: It was just a really sweet, a sweet, simple night. Nothing fancy, but yeah. Buddy: Yeah. And sometimes you, the structure versus the spontaneous is what we've talked about in previous episodes. Like you plan something and sometimes it goes great and sometimes it doesn't. It's just disappointing, especially when you have younger kids. But then when you can realize in the moment, the spontaneous has happened, like, ⁓ my gosh, we didn't plan this, but this is, this is kind of a moment. This is kind of surreal and ⁓ capitalize on it by saying, we're going to keep this good thing going. We're to go to Dairy Queen and dude, that's, that's good. That's good. But that's a foundation of months. Morgan Selecman: Yes. Yes. Yes. Buddy: of probably a half a dozen other things that y'all have done consistently to bring yourself to that point. So that's good. Cool. We want to hear my win. My win is ⁓ Madeline, my wife and I, ⁓ just, so Madeline just gave birth like nine days ago and ⁓ it's our third. So starting our third tour, you've learned a lot, but you're also a little more weary. But she looked at me yesterday and she said, Hey, we haven't like had to apologize any morning this week. Because of one of us being just kind of a butt to each other in the middle of the night and I was like, ⁓ my gosh, that's a win because that is not true for our first two because we didn't have game plans of what are we doing when baby doesn't sleep and ⁓ We're you're just not at your best and we joke like hey, let's just proactively give each other more grace because 2 a.m. Is not the time to be the most high character person in the history of the world and ⁓ Morgan Selecman: You That's huge. Mm-hmm. Mm. Nope. Buddy: Yeah, so we're eight or nine nights in and no one's like been super sarcastic or ungrateful or rolled their eyes in the dark that we know of. so we're going to keep that rolling. Morgan Selecman: That's huge. Yeah, there's nothing like that. And I mean, I wish I could say it stopped at the newborn days. But one our youngest is, you know, we've had lots of sleep struggles with her and that middle of the night, you know, it just you turn into a different person. And we've had a lot of reconciliation happening the following day to repair. Buddy: Yeah, you get to practice forgiveness, repair, all the things that are needed in a marriage ⁓ excessively. And it's way harder when they're two and a half because you thought you made it through the first nine months of hell and it comes back up. But those regressions are real. We're actually recording a whole episode in a couple of weeks on ⁓ what it's like to cry out to God for your kid to sleep and your kid not sleeping. I'm bringing in my buddy Zach and he's going to share his story. Morgan Selecman: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Buddy: It's going to be good. So we won't go into that too much. ⁓ But yeah, Morgan, again, I wanted to bring you in and I was picking your brain to different topics and you were like, hey, I want to talk about kind of the pressure of being the perfect parent. This was confirmed for me, as I mentioned before we hit record, picking up my daughter today, talking to another parent. I was picking her brain a couple of days earlier of like, hey, you got three kids. What do I need to know now that I got three kids? Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Buddy: She revisited that question today and she said, what you need to know is you don't have to be perfect in order for God to work through your parenting, but you really feel like you need to. You're really hard on yourself in the moment. And I was like, that's just confirmation that ⁓ I think there's a lot of people on this call that need to hear this conversation. So ⁓ yeah, I think where I'd like to kind of start this whole thing is for yourself, ⁓ specifically in the area of parenting and being a mom, like when did you start kind of feeling that pressure to be a perfect mom and like how did it present itself? Morgan Selecman: Man, from the moment I got pregnant, can I say that? Seriously, feel like just, you know, you just start to feel the gravity of how important and high of a calling that it is that you're bringing this life into this world. You're responsible for raising them and teaching them all these values. And, you know, it can just feel like a lot of pressure. And I think early in the earlier stages of motherhood for me. ⁓ I struggled with a lot of outside noise pressure. think honestly social media was a huge source of pressure for me. I my oldest was born in the height of COVID. So that was when everybody and their brother was making an online account with all these resources, all these courses, all this information overload everywhere. And I think that that impacted me a lot because I felt like it made me question. my own instincts and also made me feel like there was one right way to do everything. And if I didn't do it this way, then X, Y, Z would happen. And just a lot of fear based. And I think I've come away from that a little bit. I think I got really burnt out from that pretty quickly. ⁓ And now I feel like I'm able to. Just not let that out so noisy, you know, look to the resources that I trust and I'm like, this brings me life and this fills me up and this helps me and not make me. feel worse about being a mom, know, being particular about like what you are following and whatnot. But I think a lot of the pressure now I feel is just myself, things I put on myself. And I'm kind of the main person that's setting these, you know, expectations that nobody's asking me to set. Nobody's asking me to meet, but I'm, you know, keeping that for myself. Buddy: Yeah, I'm gonna put a pin in that because I want to circle back to the social media. Yeah, I think many of us can relate to that. I've kind of had a season where I'm like, well, screw it. I'm just going to just not be on social media for a couple years. Recently reactivated it to kind of get some of this podcast up and going. And it's been fun reconnecting. I've had some incredible conversations with young dads that I haven't talked to in years. So what does that look like for you now? Because it's probably not, you know, Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Buddy: Technology is not innately bad or good. So what is your relationship with like, I want to be encouraged. I want to learn from other moms, but I don't want to fall into a comparison trap. Morgan Selecman: Yeah, that's a good question. think a couple of things. think one, just being aware and realizing like, OK, I've had to unfollow a lot of accounts. think I just like panic followed so much of the new mom. Like I'm like, I need to get all the information. And then I realized this is too much. You know, it was just information everywhere. And so I think being particular about the accounts that you do follow and just gauging like. Do I feel better after I'm spending this time on here? You know, and just setting limits for like how much time I want to be spending on my phone and social media, taking breaks when needed. I think you can come to a point of like, I do need to just take a break, you know, and delete this off my phone for a bit. ⁓ But yeah, I mean, I think there are on the flip side, there are some good things about it. And through our podcast, and we've connected with a lot of moms, too, and just to hear people share their stories of how we've encouraged them and. ⁓ You know, like they feel seen and they feel like, man, I'm right there in it with you. I feel like I'm just sitting with a friend, like sitting down, having a conversation. And so there's good things to it, too. I think with anything, you know, it's all about the balance. And I don't always get it right. And sometimes I'm, you know, leaning too much one way. But I think just trying to be mindful of it and. You know, analyzing it, like taking it, taking a temperature on things of like, OK, how is this? Is this? Is this something that's turning into a negative or is it encouraging, know, and just kind of trying to be smart about it? Buddy: think of allowing your spouse to speak into it, because they can notice when you're on your phone. They can notice when you're talking or your mind's wandering or you're anxious. So having some of that built-in accountability. But I do think it's probably having less of the right voices speaking in. And if you even think of, let's go 50 to 150 years ago, ⁓ when you were with a literal tribe, you might have had five to 15 calm elders that speak into you how to Morgan Selecman: to do. Buddy: everything from breastfeed to nighttime routines to how to initiate your son into manhood, you know? And now there's no shortage of books and podcasts like this and Instagram accounts. And so like, how do you find that tribe for you that is tested and true? I heard someone say if you know them personally, ⁓ following them on social media or reading a book or things like that is probably the ones. you know, that... Morgan Selecman: Yes. Mm-hmm. Buddy: Whether you can follow that to a T, absolutely not. But I think it is less is more and going deeper with the right people. So let's circle back. You were talking about some of the pressures you put on yourself now. Self-inflicted, self-imposed. ⁓ Your day to day, what does it look like? You've been a mom, nine months pregnant, plus coming up on six years. ⁓ Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Buddy: as having a couple kids in the flesh, what are the unspoken things that maybe live rent-free in your head? And maybe not even people around you know, but you can tell it's affecting you. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, so many. It's hard. You know, I think when I was sitting down thinking about this, I realized sometimes you don't just realize it. Sometimes you think it's normal. Just all these thoughts that go through your head all day long. then you, you know, sometimes I'll share things with Cole at the end of the day. He's like, man, like you really like worry about all this. You really like think about all this. And I'm like, yes, this is what's in my brain like all the time. But. Yeah, well, yeah. Buddy: Can you give me an example? I'm gonna put you on the spot. You got an example of something that you're like guys and girls or dads and moms, they're just different in this way. Morgan Selecman: I have a bunch that Yeah, I think that a lot of my worries, so I think a lot about, know, like, OK, I have to be endlessly patient. have to keep the home running smoothly. I have to feel that every single parenting moment is shaping my child forever, like everything, you know, and like not letting my own stress affect my kids and being present, you know, wanting to stay connected as like with Cole as a spouse, like, you know, focus on your marriage, too. So I just think, you know. a lot right now in the season of having a little bit older kids. There's a lot of emotional needs and a lot of emotional. Just, yeah, it changes, right? You have the physical needs when you have a younger baby. They need you to feed them and change their diaper and they don't walk, you know? But now we're in the phase of a lot of new emotions and lot of new heavier topics that are coming up. And so I think I worry lot about that. And Cole has a more just like, it's all gonna be okay, you know? That's gonna turn out. He's more like safety stuff. He's worried about their safety of falling off this or falling off that. It's just funny to, you know, he's like, man, no wonder, you know, you're thinking of all this. I'm like, yeah, it's just in my head all day long. Like you said, just that day to day unspoken, like expectations, I guess, or pressure you put on yourself to be to be perfect, even though logically, you know, you can't, you know, I know I can't be the perfect parent, but I just hold myself to the, you know, the standards. Buddy: What can husbands, dads do to help relieve some of that pressure? ⁓ We want to fix it. I know it's not fix it, but we want to be proactive. ⁓ We want to lead our households. What has been helpful for you? What has Cole done well? Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's funny because you said about the fix it thing and the first thing that came to my mind is, know, I have these sometimes just these nightly, you know, brain dumps. I let it all out. My worries, my concerns of the day. And I think sometimes dads want to just jump in and be like, no, but you're an amazing mom. Like you're such a good mom, you know. And I'm like, thank you. I appreciate that encouragement. And I know it's needed. But I think sometimes you just want to be heard and seen for what all it is that you do carry. ⁓ and you do need to have the life, like speak the life into you, but I think that in those moments, you know, when you're dumping it all out, just listening and hearing and, you I think other times I've just had cold to be like, just just like brainstorming together about things. Like, I think sometimes moms are. They well, I say this, I'm like, I'm a bit more controlling about things because I'm doing the research and I'm reading this and, know. But Cole's like, well, I want to step in too and join you in this. And so I think I have a control problem with that of allowing that and wanting to see his perspective and not just thinking that my way and my worries are the right way or anything like that. Buddy: I heard a really good, ⁓ there was a husband and wife talking about, part of the Intentional Fatherhood podcast. I'll try and link it to this. ⁓ But Justin and his wife are talking and they had to, Justin had to raise the bar a little bit. And then his wife, I'm blanking on her name, had to lower the bar a little bit and her expectations because I do think sometimes men can be crushed when we are doing our best. And that's how our perfectionism I think comes out is, I'm trying my best and my best just still doesn't feel like it's good enough. And we've talked a lot about like we'll compare like I'm doing way more than my dad did, or I'm doing way more than such and such who I know is going on. He's going to basketball games and hunting trips and this, that and the other. And I'm packing the lunches. I'm up early making the breakfast. I'm trying to be emotionally present. I'm helping our kids regulate before I discipline them. Morgan Selecman: Mm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Buddy: And then you surely are going to make a mistake. it's like, why am I never good enough? And the wife maybe, rightfully so, is trying to correct some of it. It's like, hey, it's not that I'm saying I have to be perfect, but you still need to grow. You still lost your temper, or you still forgot to bring the backpack to school that day. Or we talked about making sure the kids go to bed by 8 30 tonight. And I was out with my girlfriends, and you let them stay up till 9. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Buddy: I think that is one thing Mal and I have recently been talking about of, how can I in certain areas that you're really, ⁓ the details matter and maybe they don't for me, how can I raise the bar of what's expected of me? And then how can you meet me halfway and kind of relax a little if it doesn't get done exactly how you thought it should? You're still respecting my initiation. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, very, very real. I think we have a lot of those very similar conversations and learning how to navigate that too, right? mean... you want to model and just like you want to model to your kids a healthy like marriage too. And so it's like, I don't want to always come in and be like, I don't know, just trying to learn when to not say something. And we can have this conversation later, ⁓ you know. And I think that that's sometimes hard. It's just like when you're with the kids all day, you're used to just being in it and just jumping in. And so sometimes I'm like, I have to let you know, as moms and dads, we have different strengths, we have different approaches and there's Buddy: Yeah. Yep. Morgan Selecman: multiple ways to get the same outcome, right? So it's like respecting one another and yeah, it's learning, learning that too and we're not going to be perfect either in that way. Buddy: Yeah. Because a lot of times moms do have a little bit more control of the ship because they steer it majority of the time. And then it's like, okay, dads, it's our turn nights and weekends to hop in. And I know that's not everyone's story. Sometimes there's, you know, different household relationships and roles, but a lot of times we're figuring out on the fly. And so maybe dads as we lead with a little more humility and actually listen and ask for help and advice. And I love what you said of just kind of picking and choosing ⁓ when to speak into your husband and when to like, cause it can be kind of emasculating honestly, if I am trying my best and you called it called me out in front of our five year old and he or she's like super intuitive. I mean, Naomi's four and a half and she's already picking sides and Madeline and I will be like bantering joking and she'll be like, daddy, be nice to mommy. And mommy's like, Morgan Selecman: and Thank Yeah. You Buddy: Madeline's like, Naomi, you need to chill. This is actually not even a fight. Like, we're just joking right now. ⁓ yeah, those are good thoughts. ⁓ I'm curious, anything else for like supporting moms, ⁓ what maybe you think men think it looks like? I think that's a great example of like, ⁓ you're doing a great job. Just the immediate encouragement. I defer to that very quickly. If I was honest, it's probably because I want to resolve it. Morgan Selecman: you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Buddy: and I don't want it to like eat up my whole evening because I'm kind of tired. ⁓ So that's a very practical thing of like what I think it looks like is just immediate encouragement when maybe it's more processing or game planning. Anything else that comes to mind of like, what does it actually look like for dads to step into supporting moms in this area of perfection? Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Well, this might sound kind of intuitive what I said, outside of those moments when we are kind of breaking down, think the encouragement and speaking truth and life and honestly calling each other higher to be like, know, like I see that this is deep care that you have and that's what this is stemming from. But also like reminding you this is not your like your parenting, your ⁓ how your kids turn out like your kids behavior is not your identity i think pointing us back to the truth and leading us in that way ⁓ and ⁓ just that like reset of like i think sometimes we can get overwhelmed in these moments of feeling a lot of pressure we're looking at ourself too much our eyes are too too much fixed Buddy: Yeah. Morgan Selecman: on us, you know, we're not looking to Jesus. We're not abiding in him. We're thinking me, me, me, me, I'm this, I'm that. And even though it's like good hearted, it's really not where the root and the foundation needs to come from. And so I think that Coles helped me a lot in that way, pointing me back lovingly, you know, to what is true and that like I don't have control over like I have some control right over my parenting, what I do. But ultimately I don't. And God's the one in control. He's the one that knows them and sees them and he's with us and like I got to focus first on my relationship with Jesus and abiding in him and that's going to what is going to what is what is going to overflow into parenting, you know, the most. Buddy: What I've found is the times that I'm hardest on myself, there's some sort of embarrassment or shame because of maybe the behavior of my kids or maybe not even what they've done, because of what I've not done perfectly. And it's really interesting, like you always... We've kicked this off in our very first episode is like, have to be fathered by God first. And we have to bring that embarrassment and shame to him first, because if not, it's wild the type of things you'll do. I think for a lot of men, they just disengage altogether. It's like, I'm embarrassed or I'm ashamed of what I did, or my efforts are leading towards behaviors that I'm embarrassed or ashamed of my kids. So I'm just going to eject. The worst, most obvious form of that is men literally walk out of the home. Morgan Selecman: Thank Mm-hmm. Buddy: or they go mountain bike for 12 hours on a Saturday or they fish all day or whatever it is. I think more practically what it looks like is they emotionally just eject. They become obsessed with fantasy football or video games or whatever it may be. like, what does it look like to ⁓ allow that shame to bring you to God to be restored quickly so that you can stay in the fray? Because I know for me, ⁓ Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Buddy: There's a lot of like, man, I've tried hard, what's the point? You kind of throw up your hands and if that's okay, you're gonna feel those moments, but if you can quickly get back into it and really only, I say only God, but like God works through your spouse to do that tremendously. God works through your best friends, Rachel or my, and Noah, my brother-in-laws. That's the importance of community for them to kind of. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Buddy: Speak that truth into you quickly so that you don't stay there and to call you out of like man I see it you've you've been distant emotionally mentally spiritually, whatever it may be you need to step back into it Morgan Selecman: Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that's big. And I think I mean, honestly, just, I don't know, a week or two ago in talking about the sleepless nights, you know, Cole and I had a really big blow up fight. had a lot of conflict. And I mean, this is kind of related indirectly, but it impacts, you know, we went to our friends and we asked for prayer and we asked for, know, we admitted that we said some unkind things to each other. And like, I think the something I appreciate about appreciate about Cole is he is so honest with his friends and he is so honest with God and he's taught me that a lot. And I think that that honesty that you build. It it helps you to get back to a place of reconciliation quicker and repair quicker. And so I think that him doing his own work, like with his community and with his close friends and that that helps me indirectly, right, because that helps him lead us better. And I think that that's. That's huge. mean, really, if you can be honest and vulnerable and not sit on it, you know, and just really try to come back together, whether that be, you know, with your kids or with your spouse, too. Buddy: Yep. So it's for both sides. You need the encouragement, but you need the challenge. You're doing a good job, but you're being called higher. I feel like that's what Jesus speaks over us. I feel like that's what a good spouse should do and should know when to offer that. And then that's what you need from community and you need to offer within community as well. ⁓ Anything else like faith related, you've seen like how faith shaped this area of parents and pressure. Morgan Selecman: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Man, I just feel like it's required me just that daily dependence, that daily surrendering. think that it brings you ⁓ just to see your need greater for him and that, you know, it really is truly if you allow it is such a sanctifying and refining journey and to really lean into that, you know, like I think that that has to be our baseline and what we're what we're starting at. again, like if I'm too focused on myself, then I'm not seeing it, you know? And just to know that like, he's with me, like he's with me in the hard parenting moments. And like even in front of my kids, like when everybody's screaming and I'm like, God, like help me have patience here, help me. Yes. It's like my body physically is like, I am not safe here, you know, like just like praying that out loud. ⁓ And even that, like I think sometimes I struggle with like, I modeling Jesus? Buddy: I'm so dysregulated right now. Morgan Selecman: correctly to my kids or am I teaching them about him the right way or learning, know, and I'm like, I gotta throw out all the window. I gotta throw that out all out the window. Just like, I can rest in the fact that I do not have to be perfect in any way like that. Life is messy. We're messy. Our kids are gonna be messy when they grow up. They don't wanna see perfect. know, they wanna see us repair when we make mistakes and they wanna see us like live out like. just praying over little moments like that. think that's what's going to add up to them and really show them it's not just this like religion that we follow, but it's like that relationship that we rely on him daily for like just our every need, you know, that daily bread that we we need to sustain us, you know. Buddy: The wonderful and the frustrating thing about parenting, as soon as you figure something kind of out, your kids get older and it changes. So like you figure out how to get them to sleep through the night and then you're figuring out how to feed them and then they eat their food finally well and now they're moving around and they're hitting one another. And now you get the terrible twos and the emotional dysregulation and that's, it's literally like a daily bread situation where ⁓ you can't. Morgan Selecman: Yes. Mm-hmm. Buddy: take leftovers from yesterday into tomorrow. There's a lot of self-reliance. We've mentioned repair quite a bit. I think most of our listeners are probably familiar with what we mean by that, but I think it was the episode you did. Y'all, y'all need to listen to their podcasts, but they had an episode with Morgan did with her husband, Cole, maybe a month or two back. And I think you guys touched on repair. I think that was the episode. Share, share with the listeners, just an example of like, Hey, you're not perfect. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. you Buddy: Mommy made a mistake. Mommy goes to one of your young kids and repairs. What does that conversation look like? Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Well, I can just tell you about an incident today. very, very recent and real. Yeah, I it's so hard, it's a good thing it is. ⁓ We my kids are in a very OK, my youngest daughter, she's a screamer. She likes to scream like she like blood curdling so loud. And for whatever reason, that is just the thing that gets my body. Buddy: Yeah, give me give me some live live feedback. Morgan Selecman: so tense my blood pressure rising and ⁓ yeah i'd just didn't i'd just i'd snap i was like stop screaming as i'm like she's yelling i'm like raising my voice to tell her to stop screaming i know i know and ⁓ it humbles you it really does but yeah and so once things calm down i just i just went over and i said you know even i'm sorry i i should not talk to you that way Buddy: The irony, like stop hitting your brother and then like as I'm like grabbing their arm and being physical. Yeah, it does. Morgan Selecman: I said, you like I am in control of myself. I'm in control of my emotions. ⁓ And I should have done X, Y, Z. I should have taken a breath. I should have stepped away. You know, all the things I'm trying to teach them to do that I'm also learning for myself, you know, and just like, do you forgive me? And I think we always try to add that at the end with our kids when they're repairing with each other to making it right, you know, make it right with them. You know, say what you're sorry for. and ask them if they forgive you, because I think that teaches them to like ask for forgiveness for what they've done wrong. Right. And, know, sometimes it's a yes, I forgive you. Sometimes it's a no. And that's another thing. I'm like, we forgive quickly so that our heart is free. We're trying to teach them that. But but just coming up and be like, hey, I messed up. And, you know, next time I'm going to try to do this and I'm sorry. And also, sometimes I'll also pray in front of them and be like, I'm, know, Buddy: Yeah, yeah. Morgan Selecman: ask for forgiveness from God too, of like, didn't treat them right and I shouldn't have done this and I don't do this perfectly and I don't do this every time and it doesn't always look like that. But ⁓ again, not the perfection, but just the consistency of trying to model that to them. think I really have just got to believe that that is going to stick with them over time and really impact them. Buddy: And it will because ⁓ your four-year-old has to forgive you for raising your voice. That flexes a muscle because when they're in middle school, they're going have a friend that tells a lie behind their back and really crushes them. And if they don't forgive, your phrase of like, ⁓ I forget how you said it, but this is for you because this is going to eat you up if you don't forgive. That's ⁓ the sin of impacting you. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Buddy: twice. ⁓ And yeah, that a lot of times, ⁓ it can't be taught in that moment. You've either been taught leading up to them or not. But once the hurt occurs, the damage is going to happen if you've not been discipled through how to how to forgive yourself and forgive others. So yeah, it's it's redeemed. Obviously, we we want to not raise our voice at our kids. And that's the whole like you confess it to your spouse, to community, you grow. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Buddy: And the other thing I want to point out for our listeners, whenever you said, this is what mommy should have done, this is what daddy should have done, I should have taken a deep breath, I should have taken a step away. Again, that's helping them understand they're going to be in a moment, probably within a few hours, where they're going to have a chance to either take a deep breath or they're going to have a chance to scream. And whenever they realize that you as an adult are not. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Buddy: so big that it doesn't apply to you. Like the rules still apply to us. I think it's just such a great way to model that. Morgan Selecman: Yes. And I it's so funny with my oldest, I try to tell him that he's very much like a perfectionist as well. And that's also hard to work through because I'm trying to teach him like it's OK to make mistakes, you know? And I'm like, ⁓ I guess I'm just I've realized with parenting, I feel like I always thought it'd be me teaching my kids. But really, it's them teaching me. It's like. Yes, yes. ⁓ So, you know, I tell him, I'm like, it's OK to make mistakes like. I've realized parenting, I feel like I always thought be me teaching my kids. But really, it's them teaching me. It's like. Yes, ⁓ yes. ⁓ So, you know, I tell him, I'm like, it's OK to make mistakes like. Buddy: You're literally just talking to yourself as you're talking to them. You're literally just talking to yourself as you're talking to them. Morgan Selecman: We learn things every day. Mistakes are a way to learn. You know, I'm still learning. He's like, at 32, you are still learning? And I'm like, yes, every day. Like, we're still learning. Like, we're figuring it out. We learn things every day. Mistakes are a way to learn. You know, I'm still learning. He's like, at 32, you are still learning? And I'm like, yes, every day. Like, we're still learning. Like, we're figuring it out. And like, I'm here, you know? But yeah, it's just. It's just, man, yeah, they're little mirrors to you. Buddy: they are. And those things are redeemed in the daily if you allow it to be with a little intentionality. One thing I was thinking of ⁓ as I was chewing on this over the last few days, ⁓ Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, when he's talking about turn the other cheek, pray for your enemies, if someone asks you to go one mile, go two. Just the very basic things of what it looks like to be a follower of Jesus. He capstones it at the end of Matthew 5 and he says, and above all things, Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Buddy: essentially, be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. And when you hear that, you're like, holy crap, what does that mean? And there's some bad theology that's been taught in my life around that. ⁓ Essentially, like, the only reason Jesus tells you to do certain things is so you can see that you can't be perfect, so that you need Him as a Savior. I think that is true, but I think Jesus does want you to do the things that He just asked you to do in Matthew chapter 5, like pray for your enemies, turn the other cheek, yada yada. So what is... What is Jesus getting at when he says, perfect as your heavenly father is perfect? Well, if you look into it and you understand what that word perfect means, it's a terrible translation in English. In the Greek, I'll probably screw it up. ⁓ Teleois? Teleois? ⁓ What it quite actually means is complete or full or mature. So be complete or full or mature as your heavenly father is mature. And what Jesus is saying is the point of sacrificial love is to eventually mature into or become the type of person who is as selfless as your Heavenly Father. But that takes a process. So that's my encouragement. So when Jesus says like, be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect, what he's saying is you're going to screw up, but eventually the goal is to become mature and to become like God in all things. And that's the whole point of this Christian walk. Again, this word is all over the New Testament. James 1 is another example. Let steadfast love have its full effect or be perfect. It's the same word there. Let steadfast love have its full effect, be perfect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. It's a steadfast journey in parenting. You have to do this every single day. You're going to make mistakes. But if you do that over a lifetime, over a journey, there's going to be a day where though we're not as perfect as God, we can look back and say we image God, we are lacking in nothing, we are mature like our Heavenly Father is, and that is the goal of the Christian walk. And there's grace obviously in that. just curious if any of that hits home with you, gives you some permission to say, I'm going to screw up, but there is still the main thing, to keep the main thing the main thing, is God does want me to mature eventually to become more like Himself. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just like, yeah, it is a process. And I think I think we know this, but we have to remind ourselves of it very often. And I think that, you know, we think unintentionally, I have to be perfect. You know, we unintentionally think that. So reminding ourselves of this, that it is a process and that it's kind of exciting. It's kind of an exciting thing to think about. Like when you were just talking about that, I'm like, what an exciting. journey to go on, like it's not always going to feel fun. It's not always going to feel, you know, it sure is. Yeah, it's not always going to feel all the fun, lovey feelings. But just to think about like, you know, outwardly, we are wasting away, but we are renewed day by day. And like he is faithful to do that. And that makes me excited, honestly. It just encourages me to be like, we will see like if we are faithful in this, like he will. He is faithful to mold us and renew us and refine us through this. Buddy: Absolutely. So moms and dads, you're not more selfish. Your parents or your kids have just exposed that. You're not more impatient. ⁓ You've just now been exposed. I mean, think a lot of times I think, am I going the wrong direction? No, it's just my kids have exposed these things. And I like the mindset of this is exciting. Of like now I have something in maturity that has been brought up in my life. and I can bring it to God and it might be 10 or 20 years until I become the type of person that I want to be. But God's in the business of walking with us in that and His grace is sufficient to get us there. So, okay, before we wrap things up, I want you to just kind of share some things practically, two to three things, whether it's dads to help moms, moms to speak over themselves, parents in general. What are some things this week in view of? God's grace in view of the goal is not to always be perfect but repair in view of what moms need from supportive spouses. What can we do to help combat this pressure to be perfect? Morgan Selecman: This is like a really tangible specific thing, but I think that it's helping me. ⁓ think just changing my language around like I should be doing this or I should be doing that, that I am learning to be this way. So like I should be more calm, you know, and I'm like, okay, well I'm learning how to stay calm and hard moments. cause I think a lot of the pressure comes in like again, the internalized, I should do this or I should be like that. I should be like this mom who can do this or I should be like, you know, Buddy: Mmm. Morgan Selecman: I should be able to handle this now. I've I've been around it. You know, this is my second kid. So it's like I should have the experience, you know, but just like I should versus I'm learning to. I think that's helpful to me to just gauge that like mindset towards it's a process, right? You know, ⁓ and I I know this feels like overused to say just that but there's grace, you know, and I think that that is what like Jesus Like he is the only one who could live a perfect life. We can walk in that freedom and not chain ourselves to this. The standard or this perfection or expectation is like that. What is that a way to live? It's not, you know, and if you're walking freely in the grace that God has given us, what like that in and of itself is going to impact your kids so much instead of being so fearful of this or that. Like I find that a lot of my pressure I put on myself really deep rooted is fear of. Buddy: Mm-hmm. Morgan Selecman: a certain outcome happening or fear of this happening ⁓ fear of me not teaching my kids this or that you know so i think that that's chains for you that doesn't let you walk freely and enjoy the gifts that are in front of you so Buddy: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Man, what a practical thing too. Maybe you just name some of those fears. ⁓ know, fear is the primary emotion. We have some sort of secondary one that's coming out in rage or disappointment or sadness or whatever. So, and ⁓ I love the word grace because it's quite literally a word gift. We just named our daughter Charis, ⁓ which is the Greek word for that. And so grace is not just forgiveness for mistakes, but it's God giving you what you need in all areas. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Buddy: So it's like, okay, let me confess these fears that I have that come out in this perfectionism. And once I confess that, you then can identify, okay, God, what is the gift that I need to compensate my lack? Because I'm clearly lacking something that I need to have from you. Cool. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Mm That's good. remember like before we had Jude, like I did that because I was really nervous. You know, I was really scared going into labor and I wrote down every fear that I had about it. And I and I was like, I'm afraid this is going to happen or this is going to happen. And it gave me so much peace just writing it out, getting it out there and then like praying over those things and letting them go. And I just feel like that's yeah, that's a really practical thing that. Buddy: Yeah. Wow. Morgan Selecman: personally would be helpful for me. I'm sure that other people, you know. Buddy: Yeah. Yeah, I think I mean, dads help help your baby mamas out. Don't do it in the moment when they're all like tense, or you just like, what are you so afraid of? Don't do that. I'm not doing that. But maybe on a slow Saturday morning, or when they're in a good headspace or very tenderly be like, hey, I would love to hear ⁓ what's maybe beneath that if there's a deeper thing and how I can help and whether it's praying for them in the moment or circling back at another time. I think that's a very practical takeaway that Morgan Selecman: Thank Yeah. Mm-hmm. Buddy: I'm going to think through, obviously myself, writing out worry lists consistently if I see something underneath, but pulling that out of Madeleine as well. Hey, let's close with a little rapid fire, Morgan. I'm talking like 30 seconds or less. You ready? We'll have a little fun. We'll have a little fun to close this out. What is one thing you've let go of as a parent? Be like, I was worried about this, and I'm like, I am not perfect, and it don't bother me no more. Morgan Selecman: Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Oh, well, I would say like my kids dressing themselves, like caring about their appearance. think any given day my daughter, she'll have on polka dot pants, princess dress, cowboy boots, hair all a mess. And, you know, I'm like, I really don't care. I'm like, she was independent. She wore this. She got herself dressed. One less thing I had to worry about. I thought I would care about that more, but I just, I just really don't. Buddy: Let's go. Love that. One thing you wish you worried less about maybe earlier, like it hung on for too long, or maybe it pops its head up from time to time. Morgan Selecman: I think just that most things just are not as urgent as they seem. I don't know if that really relates, but it's like, I think some things to me, worry so much, and I think this is like, oh, such a big deal, but then it's really not. So I think just like, it's not as much of an emergency as I'm making things to be. Whether that's like milestones, like the kids, like where they're at, or like, I don't know, just little things like that, that it's not that deep. It'll be okay. Buddy: Yeah. Mmm. Your kids could be like a head on everything, but like two things. Naomi struggles with her letters, but her memory retention, like her reading comprehension per se, like when we tell her stories is unreal, but we can fixate on the little things, you know? And I'm like, it's gonna work itself out. Like she's in a good preschool, it's gonna work itself out. One thing, last one, one thing you might need to worry more about. You're like, yeah, I probably should care about this a little more. Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Maybe the amount of vegetables or lack thereof that my children consume. ⁓ They're big fruit lovers. Veggies, not so much. Although my daughter did choose to have tomatoes and pickles as her bedtime snack last night. maybe we're... ⁓ really? ⁓ man. I was going to say maybe we're getting somewhere, but... Buddy: Okay. Okay, same. That's a fruit. Tomato's a fruit. I don't... Yeah, dog. Nope, count it. They're healthy. Have y'all ever grown vegetables? Morgan Selecman: Here and there, we've done some peppers and stuff like that, ⁓ but not a whole lot. Buddy: Our kids eat way too much sugar, ⁓ not enough like really meat. They eat a decent amount of vegetables and a lot of fruit. They struggle with some vegetables, but like they just don't get enough protein. But one thing that they love is when we grow vegetables, will, I have seen my son eat 20 cherry tomatoes off the vine. And to the point where I'm like, need to slow down, you're gonna get sick. So there's like a sense of pride, know, when they grow something. So, nope, I feel that diet is something. I told Madeline this week, we need to tighten up. Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Buddy: And it's just because it's more of just eating habits that's more we care about as the habits. So, cool. Any final encouragement, Morgan, to ⁓ relatively functional dads out there? Morgan Selecman: Yeah. Yeah. I just think that so much of the stress that we, know, things that we stress about daily really just come with internal expectations, know, fear of getting it wrong. think that growth is happening even we don't feel like it and just trusting that God's with you, he's renewing you, like just abide in him and I think everything will be okay. Buddy: He often does less in a day than we want, but way more in a year and then a lifetime than we could imagine. So that's what that's going to be my encouragement. That's going to be my hope. And I'm to trust that. So, hey friends, listen to Morgan and Rachel on That's a Win podcast. They're a good follow on Instagram. Don't listen to a lot of people on Instagram, just a few, but make sure they're one of them. Follow us as well. We now have an Instagram page. Drop comments. Would love to hear feedback, concerns. Morgan Selecman: ⁓ that's cool. Buddy: That's a win stories things that you want to you want to share as a community? Segment ideas and please if you got a moment hit that subscribe button it helps us get in front of more moms and dads out there, so ⁓ Yeah, your faithfulness matters way more than your performance. Let's go be faithful this week Morgan. Thanks for joining us I hope everyone has a great rest their day. God bless