Latest / Yes And Land / Inside Out and Why Nobody Listens | BJ Oldroyd

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Inside Out and Why Nobody Listens | BJ Oldroyd · Yes And Land

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  My first experience with Disney was when I was
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  three years old. And that's when I went to Disney
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  World with my family and evidently got lost.
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  No way! They spent a number of hours trying to
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  find me. I had made my way apparently to the
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  entry of the park and was trying to get back
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  to the hotel. But then she asks the dad to weigh
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  in. And then suddenly you see inside his head,
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  right? And you see all the little emotions. And
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  this is what they're saying to each other inside
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  his head. Oh, she's looking at us. What did she
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  say? What? Oh, sorry, sir. No one was listening
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  because he just completely wasn't listening.
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  Right. How often do we fall into that where he
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  says most people do not listen with the intent
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  to understand. They listen with the intent to
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  reply. You know, we're basically shutting somebody
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  out as if we were watching a hockey game. If
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  we're simply listening with the intent to reply.
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  It's an ongoing struggle for me, honestly, because
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  I've unfortunately I have a face that doesn't
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  hide my emotions very well. So. You know, when
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  I get feedback from a manager or if I disagreed
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  with something, they usually knew. And I wouldn't
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  say anything. It's just like, oh, your face did
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  something. It's a human doing human. You have
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  to have that approach. So in the right context,
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  know when it's okay to remove the business element
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  and just talk as people. Welcome to Yes and Land,
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  where we say yes to the reality of yesterday
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  and today. And we say and to the possibility,
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  growth, and imagination of tomorrow. Do you ever
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  look at someone and wonder what is going on inside
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  their head? That is the question that opens Inside
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  Out and is going to be the basis for our conversation
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  today about communication. which fits so well
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  with this wonderful movie, Inside Out. And today
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  we're visiting with an excellent guest. Very
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  excited to have a conversation with him, BJ Oldroyd,
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  who has a great love for Disney. And when we
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  prep for this podcast, I just want to soak up
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  all of his knowledge and information about everything
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  Disney and Disney parks and all the great things.
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  So super excited for a conversation today, BJ.
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  Thank you. I appreciate you having me. All right,
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  so our topic today that we're going to discuss
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  is about communication. So we're going to dive
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  into a little bit more about what that means,
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  what communication issues that you see people
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  have, what holds people back from having effective
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  communication. We'll lace that through kind of
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  the lens of Inside Out. However, before we get
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  there, let's lay the foundation for who BJ is.
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  Take us all the way back. Take us to, like, young,
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  taut BJ. Where did you come from? How did you
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  gain a love for Disney? And then what took you
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  to where you are today, being at an awesome company
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  where you've been in kind of the tech startup
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  world for quite a while, rock and rolling stuff
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  there, helping to lead people through communication,
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  obviously a super important part of what you
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  do, no doubt. So take us all the way back. Well,
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  if we're going all the way back, it actually
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  is a Disney tie -in. My first experience with
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  Disney was when I was three years old. And I
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  do actually remember bits and pieces of it. And
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  that's when I went to Disney World with my family
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  and evidently got lost. No way. They spent a
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  number of hours trying to find me. I had made
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  my way apparently to the entry of the park and
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  was trying to get back to the hotel. So some
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  workers and cast members found me, put me in
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  the lost and found my mom. My mom came in. after
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  they made some announcement that they had found,
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  you know, a lost child. So she knew that was
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  me. And then the first thing I said to her when
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  I walked in, she's like, mom, you were lost.
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  And I blame the whole thing on her. So that kind
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  of actually pushed me off Disney for a while.
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  Cause anytime we went anywhere, I had to wear
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  like the backpack with the leash and stuff. Cause
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  I couldn't be trusted the worst. Yeah. It's,
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  it was a good time. And they, today what I've
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  heard they do now, and it's a little bit, they
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  don't advertise it because. for obvious reasons
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  but apparently what they do now is they have
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  like superior superior facial recognition software
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  i can't even say it um so that when there is
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  a lost kid like they can identify very quickly
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  where that child is at because of all the cameras
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  they have and because they're capturing people's
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  pictures initially and like they helped really
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  develop apparently behind the scenes a lot of
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  that technology that a lot of places use today
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  for facial recognition Because they have obvious
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  needs for it, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, safety
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  is the first, most highest priority that Disney
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  has. 100%. You have tens of thousands of people
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  going to your park every single day. But this
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  was also the joyous time of the 80s. Oh, yeah.
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  So that did not exist back then. It was very
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  much like, hopefully a cast member finds you
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  and hopefully they take you before you walk out
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  into the street. Yeah. But now they still sell
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  those backpacks with leashes, but they're for
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  adults. So it's for like the wayward husband
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  that goes and has to buy the things. So it still
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  makes some money off of it. Yeah, totally. Totally.
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  Yeah, I moved to Washington State. I was born
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  in Provo, Utah, but I moved to Washington State
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  when I was seven. Right in Washington. It's a
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  little town called Chehalis. Chehalis. Yeah.
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  And where's that at? In the middle of nowhere.
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  Okay, fair. It's a pretty small town, but I love
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  it. It gave me a really... really big appreciation
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  for that kind of small town feel. Yeah. And an
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  appreciation for when I did go into, you know,
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  like Portland or Seattle, like my dad and I would
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  go in and visit Seattle and do the Seattle Mariners
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  games and stuff. That was our thing. So fun.
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  They had a great stadium now too, by the way.
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  Isn't it incredible? Yeah. The retractable roof,
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  like the whole thing moves off and then moves
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  back on. It's like a single unit. It's like the
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  scale of it. The first time I saw it, I was just
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  like. amazed at how big the scale of that. Oh,
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  it's massive. Yeah. And it's honestly, it's quiet,
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  which is surprising to me. Like you, if you're
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  paying attention to the game and they start to
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  close the roof, you don't realize it until it's
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  halfway done. It's like, Oh, okay. That's something's
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  happening. It's and there's the, the butt, like
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  the brick work, all this stuff, like the chandelier
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  they have behind home plate. That's just a bunch
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  of actual like baseball bats made out of glass.
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  And that's the chandelier. Then it's just the
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  detail they put into it. It was awesome, especially
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  I grew up going to the Kingdome, which was the
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  opposite of everything that that new stadium
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  represents, just a big piece of concrete. But,
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  yeah, it was amazing. And it was a great time
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  to spend with my dad. He was a surgeon growing
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  up, so I didn't get a chance to spend a ton of
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  time with him. So those little moments that we
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  had were nice. Did you guys go to any basketball
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  games at the time? The Seattle Supersonics? No.
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  Back in the day, which now are the Oklahoma City
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  Thunder. Wait, they're bringing them back, though.
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  I heard that they were. I was going to ask you.
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  They are bringing them back. Is that legit? They
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  actually are like, is it? They have to get some
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  buyers. Okay. But they've approved the expansion.
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  Oh, man. So I think it's going to be for Vegas
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  and for Seattle. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
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  So now that I'm older. I don't know why we never
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  did. I didn't go to any Seahawks games either,
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  and I'm a huge Seahawks fan. Oh, goodness. So,
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  yeah, I don't know why that didn't happen. So
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  you're living on a high right now. Oh, yeah.
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  Yeah. Super Bowl champions. Oh, my goodness.
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  That was good, especially because the Patriots
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  can't. Oh, yeah, amazing. That's a whole different
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  story. Y 'all were trouncing people throughout
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  the playoffs, just trouncing them. I'm a Niners
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  fan, and, man, y 'all made us look bad, and we
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  weren't a bad team. You made us look horrible.
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  Brock Purdy is one of the most underappreciated
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  quarterbacks in the league, in my opinion. Yeah.
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  And when they did make it, I think it was the...
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  I can't remember if it was the championship game
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  or the Super Bowl. I wanted to see him win. Yeah.
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  Like the Mr. Irrelevant taking that team to go
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  win the Super Bowl. I was like, yeah, that needs
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  to happen. It would be like epic story, right?
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  Oh, yeah. Mr. Irrelevant doing that. That's what
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  you make Disney movies out of. That's exactly
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  right. Perfect. Because there definitely would
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  be, right? We've got plenty of like Disney sports
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  great moments, don't we? Yeah, there's some great
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  ones out there. Absolutely. So you were mostly
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  a Seattle sports fan growing up, or did you also
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  have some Portland stuff? Because you guys sometimes
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  went down to Portland. Portland was more so family.
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  I didn't really equate that to any sporting.
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  And they really only had the Trailblazers at
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  that point, and they were terrible. Of course,
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  the Sonics weren't much better. None of the time.
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  They had a couple years in there where they had
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  Gary Payton and Sean Kemp and stuff. And Sean
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  Kemp was very exciting. Oh, yeah. I mean, he
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  was super fun to watch, and the glove, Gary Payton,
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  was amazing. And they had some really down years,
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  and that's why they got Kevin Durant, because
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  they had some really down years, so they were
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  really not very good at all. It just makes me
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  even more wish they would have stayed there.
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  Yeah. Because being able to, because OKC won
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  last year, thinking that that could have been
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  a Seattle banner, especially knowing that the
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  Seahawks won, too. It's like, we're just going
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  to raise all the banners now? Seriously. Who's
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  the Sounders, the soccer team? They also won.
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  Oh, the Seattle Sounders, yeah. Yeah, they won
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  the league. So it was a good year. That's good
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  times to be a Seattle sports fan. Yeah, for sure.
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  Yeah, here in Utah, we don't have quite that
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  same luck. RSL won a number of years ago, but
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  that's it. You go for something to do on a Friday
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  night. That's pretty much why. Yeah, that's exactly
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  it. That's exactly it. So you grow up in this
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  kind of small town, Washington. Then where do
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  you go from there? So graduated high school from
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  there. and then moved back to Utah, and then
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  subsequently went on an LDS mission to Lansing,
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  Michigan. Lansing as opposed to East Lansing?
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  Or is it one and the same? Because East Lansing
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  is Michigan State, right? Isn't that where Michigan
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  State's at? Yeah. I didn't serve on Michigan
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  State, but I served in the area that surrounded
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  Michigan State. So, yeah, they're neighboring
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  towns. But it was technically the Lansing mission,
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  even though everything regarding the mission
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  was in East Lansing. you know you take it for
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  what it's worth yeah but yeah we covered pretty
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  much all of the lower peninsula except for detroit
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  and kind of some of the suburbs around detroit
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  um i made the mistake of showing up that first
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  uh first day and after i you know changed out
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  of my proselyting clothes put on the hoodie that
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  my dad had given me, which is a Michigan. Oh
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  boy. Hoodie. That was a problem. Oh boy. Yeah.
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  That would be a problem. It made it about a week
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  before it got shipped back home and became my
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  dad's favorite hoodie because I was not allowed
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  to wear it because people would yell at me and
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  things would be bad. Yeah, no doubt. But yeah,
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  it's a real, I mean, that is a serious rivalry.
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  Oh yeah. It's interesting because you know, you
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  have that kind of rivalry where there is, you
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  just can't wear something like that in those
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  places. Whereas here, where we're at, Utah and
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  BYU are huge rivals. It obviously is, but it's
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  not that way. People are wearing BYU and Utah
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  stuff all the time. Families are divided all
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  the time. It's all over the place, right? Well,
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  you have those jerseys and stuff where it's like
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  half Utah, half BYU. It's the whole families
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  divided aspect. You can have fun with it. For
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  sure. And over there, I was there when Michigan
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  State basketball was... like going to the Sweet
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  16, Elite 8, and all that stuff. And we were
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  actually told we had to be in our apartments
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  on game nights by usually like 6 o 'clock because
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  if they won or if they lost, there would be a
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  riot. They would turn over cars. There would
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  be burning couches in the street. And I lived
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  across the street from campus. So it was one
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  of those things like, okay, well, if you hear
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  stuff, don't look outside. It was interesting,
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  but it was an amazing experience. What was your
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  favorite thing about that area? East Lansing
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  or just Michigan? Just Michigan. Your experience
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  in Michigan. What was your favorite thing? Oh,
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  man. The people, first and foremost. They were
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  just some of the nicest I've ever met. But honestly,
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  the, like, the nature aspect. I mean, it's just,
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  there's not a lot. It made me feel like I was
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  back in my hometown of Chehalis because it was,
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  you didn't get a lot of, like, the changing leaves
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  and everything because it's Washington. They
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  have the evergreens and stuff. But. We had some
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  of the rolling hills and not a lot of large towns,
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  especially some of my areas were in the upper
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  peninsula where I'm covering two counties, and
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  the town that I live in is 6 ,000 people. So
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  it felt very small town. You walk down the street,
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  you know everybody's name. You've talked to them
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  seven times already, and you've only lived there
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  for a month, stuff like that. And then spring
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  and fall, all the leaves changing. Saw fireflies
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  there for the first time in my life. That was
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  very cool. Yeah. So just little things like that.
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  We don't have those here. No. Just little things
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  like that. It just made it to where you can kind
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  of quiet your mind down. And it was very easy
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  to do that because your environment made that
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  easier. Yeah. So I really love that about Michigan.
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  Yeah. Makes sense. When did you start to regain
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  your love for Disney? After your initial getting
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  lost terrible experience. So it was actually,
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  I made, one of my best friends uh i met him when
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  i started my first startup um started working
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  a company called thumbtack that was based out
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  of san francisco but they decided to open a salt
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  lake office and we were one of the first 20 people
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  that they hired and he and his wife have a love
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  for disney and you know we've been talking about
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  like oh yeah i haven't been there in years and
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  he hadn't really either and i told him the story
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  about me getting lost and i'd always had a love
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  for like disney movies you know like i i i joked
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  about the fact that I was going to sneak out
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  of the MTC so I could go see Pirates of the Caribbean
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  because it came out five days after I left. The
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  first one? The first one. Okay, yeah. So I was
• 13:29
  very close, but my parents were serving as a
• 13:31
  branch presidency in the MTC, so I probably shouldn't
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  have done that. But, yeah, we just started talking
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  about stuff, and he's like, oh, we're going to
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  buy an annual pass. Next time we go, do you want
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  to come? And I'm like, sure, why not? What's
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  the worst that could happen? So he bought the
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  pass. His wife bought the pass. We had one other
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  friend that also bought one. And there was a
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  group of five of us that just went down there.
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  And I remember walking in to the park and just
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  like, oh, okay, I'm home now. It was almost immediate.
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  No kidding. I just felt like the real world kind
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  of melted away for a while. I knew I was there
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  just to have a good time. I was there to not
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  only spend time with my friends that I knew,
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  but some people that came with us that I didn't
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  know. And it was a blast. And by the time I think
• 14:19
  we got to the second day. Because back then you
• 14:21
  could convert your ticket if you had a three
• 14:23
  -day or more park hopper. You could convert your
• 14:26
  ticket into an annual pass. And so we went the
• 14:29
  next morning, and I converted mine into an annual
• 14:31
  pass. In that one -year time frame, I think we
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  went four times. Wow. So it definitely was worth
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  the purchase. What year was that? That was 2015,
• 14:45
  2016. And I've gone. To Disneyland probably at
• 14:50
  least once a year since then but I've been you
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  know to Disney World a handful of times And I've
• 14:56
  had the chance to go to Disneyland Paris twice
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  amazing and yeah, I got the other ones under
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  my belt now Yeah, yeah when when it connects
• 15:04
  for somebody it does yes connects and There is
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  I mean say as they say I guess it's cliche, but
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  there's something magical It's true. I remember
• 15:13
  the last one of the last trips. I went on it
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  was just me and my buddy Jeff And he used to
• 15:18
  live in California. He was part of, if you know,
• 15:19
  like the biker gang look, the cuts that they
• 15:23
  have. He had a bunch of friends that they made
• 15:25
  those, but specifically for Disney. So it was
• 15:28
  like the castle on the back. They had their Disney
• 15:30
  nicknames on their chests and stuff. They got
• 15:32
  pins all over them. It was really cool. So he's
• 15:35
  very much a Disney guy. And I had sadly gotten
• 15:40
  food poisoning the night before, so I wasn't
• 15:42
  in the best of moods. And I remember we're walking
• 15:45
  around the park. The firework show was about
• 15:47
  to start. You know, the sun's going down and
• 15:50
  everything. And the music started and the fireworks
• 15:51
  started. Instantly, I felt better. And I remember
• 15:55
  actually turning around and looking and be like,
• 15:56
  this, this is why I come here. And he's just
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  like, I know, right? And then I remember where
• 16:02
  we went and got some food or something after
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  that. So it was just one of those moments where
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  it's just like, yeah, just has that ability to
• 16:08
  make everything just a little bit better. For
• 16:09
  sure. No question. So you then end up. You were
• 16:15
  studying history, right, in school? Yep. And
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  then you end up getting connected into a startup,
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  and then you kind of get into the startup world.
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  Taking us to kind of the topic that we're at,
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  what in your years in startups, in tech companies,
• 16:30
  in the leadership positions you've had, what
• 16:33
  have you noticed on our topic of communication?
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  What have you noticed as some of the biggest
• 16:37
  problems that people have when it comes to communication?
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  There's a couple things that come to mind with
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  that one. The main reason why those are the first
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  things that I thought of is because I was guilty
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  of them when I, you know, first kind of started
• 16:52
  getting my feet wet in the startup world. You
• 16:55
  know, I started with Thumbtack, that first startup,
• 16:57
  after I left school for history. And I was, you
• 17:03
  know, just a guy that was working on the phone.
• 17:05
  And so I went to work every day. It's just like,
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  I don't really have to. This doesn't apply to
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  me. This doesn't really pertain to me. People
• 17:10
  give feedback or people would give advice. I'm
• 17:12
  just kind of, yep, that's whatever. And I would
• 17:15
  just go about my day. It was a paycheck. But
• 17:17
  then I started learning as I got to know more
• 17:21
  of the business and I got to know more of the
• 17:22
  people and the opportunities were lining up that
• 17:25
  you have to be open to what anybody is going
• 17:31
  to be saying to you. Communication is something
• 17:34
  to where if you're not going into it with an
• 17:36
  open mind, then you might as well just walk away
• 17:39
  because there's no point in you having the conversation.
• 17:41
  You have to have an open mind. And you have to
• 17:43
  be willing to listen to actually absorb what's
• 17:47
  being said and not listen just to, okay, you
• 17:50
  said something. I know I have to respond to that.
• 17:52
  This is my response. So if you're not doing those
• 17:55
  two things, like absorbing what's actually happening
• 17:57
  and then listening with the intent to actually
• 18:00
  continue the conversation, maybe ask some questions
• 18:03
  and be like, why do you say that specifically?
• 18:06
  Do you have some examples? Stuff like that. It's
• 18:09
  not going to do any good. You're not going to
• 18:10
  go anywhere. Why do you think, because I 100
• 18:13
  % agree, why do you think it's so hard for people
• 18:15
  to go into a conversation with an open mind?
• 18:18
  Because so many people don't. Why is that so
• 18:20
  hard? I think it depends on who the conversation
• 18:22
  is with, but I think the majority of the time
• 18:24
  it's ego. There's so much ego that plays into
• 18:29
  it. When someone says, I have some feedback for
• 18:30
  you, instantly you kind of, you know, you'll
• 18:33
  see people do this and like, yeah, let's go ahead
• 18:36
  and tell me what it is. And they're kind of closed
• 18:39
  off. and they almost feel like they're being
• 18:41
  attacked because they did something wrong. It's
• 18:44
  not just, no, I just have some constructive criticism
• 18:47
  for you because I want you to be better. I want
• 18:49
  you to succeed. And so many times it's just as
• 18:54
  soon as you say the word feedback or let's have
• 18:56
  a talk or something like that, it's almost like
• 18:59
  back when your parents would say, I've got to
• 19:00
  talk to you about something, and you're like,
• 19:02
  oh, I'm in trouble. It's not the case, especially
• 19:04
  if it's a worthwhile leader within that industry.
• 19:08
  they're going to be having that conversation
• 19:10
  with you because they want to see you succeed.
• 19:13
  Yeah. And it's interesting because, you know,
• 19:16
  when you bring that up about somebody saying
• 19:18
  like, oh, can we have a conversation? Can we
• 19:19
  talk? I've experienced it from a leader perspective
• 19:23
  of the panic that I give people when I tell them
• 19:26
  I want to talk. And it doesn't have to be like
• 19:30
  it's not something bad. It might be something
• 19:31
  good. I might be telling them congratulations
• 19:33
  for something. There's this immediate like, oh.
• 19:36
  Uh -oh, the boss wants to talk. Uh -oh, what's
• 19:38
  going on? It probably is this fear, right? It's
• 19:41
  fear of what that's going to mean. It's fear
• 19:42
  of what's going to happen. It's a little bit
• 19:45
  of this ego, right? This pride situation. You
• 19:48
  know, for me, a couple of things that I've tried
• 19:50
  to do, and I'd love to get your take on these,
• 19:53
  is part of the reason why I have a weekly meeting
• 19:57
  with the people who directly report to me is
• 19:59
  so that then it's already curated in. I don't
• 20:02
  have to be pulling them aside and telling them
• 20:03
  that and have that fear strike their head. They're
• 20:05
  going to know they're meeting with me. And then
• 20:07
  in the meeting itself, then I take the opportunity.
• 20:09
  And usually what I'll do, and I learned this
• 20:11
  from a podcast that I had listened to about management
• 20:15
  and leadership, is I ask if I can give feedback.
• 20:19
  Like, hey, BJ, can I give you some feedback?
• 20:20
  And then I'm inviting them to allow me to give
• 20:24
  it to them, and they're giving me permission
• 20:25
  to then do it. And I've just found that. People
• 20:28
  are more likely to receive it. It's not perfect
• 20:31
  always, but then they're at least opening themselves
• 20:34
  up a little bit more to say, yes, you can give
• 20:38
  me that feedback. Now they're listening a little
• 20:40
  bit better. What strategies have you taken when
• 20:42
  you're trying to help people not immediately
• 20:44
  have that panic reaction and helping them to
• 20:46
  be a little bit more open to feedback you want
• 20:48
  to give? I kind of take a two -pronged approach.
• 20:51
  One of them actually is that. you know, can I
• 20:53
  offer you some feedback? Um, it's so good. It
• 20:56
  really is. Cause it, it brings up, it almost
• 20:58
  makes it feel like it's their idea, which is
• 21:01
  great. If it's, if it's something that, that
• 21:02
  they think they've thought of, it's like, Oh
• 21:04
  yeah, I actually was kind of curious what, what
• 21:06
  you thought. So are you asking that we can have
• 21:08
  that conversation? You know, I'll be more receptive
• 21:10
  to it. Um, the other would be just as part of
• 21:14
  that conversation. Cause I was the same way when
• 21:16
  I've, when I've been a leader or manager of,
• 21:20
  of teams, I would try to have, you know weekly
• 21:23
  one -on -ones with them and then you know like
• 21:24
  monthly team meetings and stuff so it's on the
• 21:26
  same page and um depending on how i had to talk
• 21:30
  to the individual i'd make sure that i knew exactly
• 21:34
  what i was going to cover if there were some
• 21:35
  concerns you know how i'm going to bring that
• 21:37
  up how does that relate to you know your day
• 21:39
  -to -day but then i would just put some questions
• 21:41
  in there like if we just listen to a call it's
• 21:43
  like okay this is this is what i thought i thought
• 21:45
  you did a really good job you built great rapport
• 21:47
  with the customer you knew the products really
• 21:49
  really well What do you think is one positive
• 21:51
  and one could be better that you could have done
• 21:53
  on this thing? And if they start kind of digging
• 21:59
  into the possibilities of improvement on their
• 22:01
  own, again, it's like the can I give you some
• 22:03
  feedback? They're instigating it. And then you
• 22:06
  just be like, yeah, I actually really like you
• 22:07
  brought that up. I thought something similar.
• 22:10
  Mind if we talk about that for a little bit?
• 22:11
  Yeah, sure. What did you think as well? Anytime
• 22:13
  you can get them engaged in that conversation
• 22:15
  and it doesn't feel like you're just getting
• 22:17
  a reprimand, then. 100 % of the time, they're
• 22:21
  going to be more open to that. Yeah. When the
• 22:24
  shoe's in the other foot and you're the one needing
• 22:27
  to receive feedback, how have you learned over
• 22:30
  time to be open and have an open mind to the
• 22:34
  feedback that's coming your way? Because I think
• 22:36
  we do have this natural reaction of like, oh,
• 22:38
  oh, I don't want to listen to that. Oh, it's
• 22:40
  just, you know, you tell me something bad and
• 22:42
  I don't want to hear it. So what have you done
• 22:44
  to help yourself receive it better? That's a
• 22:48
  it's a good question. It's an ongoing struggle
• 22:51
  for me, honestly, because I've. Unfortunately,
• 22:54
  I have a face that doesn't hide my emotions very
• 22:56
  well. So, you know, when I get feedback from
• 22:59
  from a manager or, you know, even in my last
• 23:02
  job, a direct manager or like I meet with the
• 23:05
  director over the customer success team once
• 23:08
  a month, if I disagreed with something, they
• 23:10
  usually knew because I wouldn't say anything.
• 23:13
  It's just like your face did something. But.
• 23:17
  It's one of those things that I'm kind of hyper
• 23:20
  -focused on. And part of that approach for me
• 23:23
  is asking for feedback, like actively putting
• 23:28
  myself in those situations where I'm going to
• 23:31
  be getting some feedback, some sort of advice
• 23:35
  or some sort of coaching or something that I
• 23:38
  may not like and it may end up being great when
• 23:41
  I ask for it. But that's a consistent thing for
• 23:44
  me when I have my one -on -ones with, those that
• 23:48
  I report to, to be able to say, what feedback
• 23:50
  do you have for me? And if they say, I don't
• 23:52
  have anything, I'll actually bring something
• 23:53
  up. So what about this? Do you feel like I could
• 23:55
  be doing better with the product or taking more
• 23:58
  calls or something? I will kind of become my
• 24:00
  own worst enemy and I'll analyze my own performance
• 24:03
  and then get their feedback on it. Because then
• 24:06
  if I do that and they're like, no, I think you're
• 24:07
  doing great, I can then say, okay, what I'm doing
• 24:10
  is working. I can now focus on other stuff. And
• 24:13
  the other thing that was really hard for me was,
• 24:17
  the listening with true intent and not just hearing
• 24:21
  something. It's like, I have a reply for that,
• 24:22
  which instantly means I'm not listening to the
• 24:24
  rest of what they're saying. Being able to just
• 24:26
  be very open to what an individual is saying
• 24:28
  and then responding based on the entirety of
• 24:32
  what they said has been the biggest thing for
• 24:33
  me. So this, this is such a perfect lead in for
• 24:36
  us because this is from inside out, right? Yep.
• 24:39
  This is to set the scene, right? So we've got
• 24:43
  the mom and the dad, and then we've got Riley,
• 24:45
  their daughter. I can't remember how old she
• 24:47
  is. Nine or something? Ten? Yeah, ten or eleven.
• 24:50
  Somewhere in that range, right? And they're around
• 24:53
  the dinner table, and the mom is talking to Riley.
• 24:57
  And I don't remember what exactly she's saying,
• 24:59
  but then she asks the dad to weigh in. because
• 25:02
  she's wanting him to weigh in on what's happening.
• 25:05
  And then suddenly you see inside his head, right?
• 25:07
  And you see all the little emotions that are
• 25:11
  characters inside of his head. And this is what
• 25:13
  they're saying to each other inside his head.
• 25:16
  Uh -oh, she's looking at us. What did she say?
• 25:18
  What? Oh, sorry, sir. No one was listening. Is
• 25:21
  it garbage night? We left the toilet seat up?
• 25:23
  What? What is it, woman? What? Because he just
• 25:27
  completely wasn't listening, right? And it's
• 25:29
  such a funny way for that to be portrayed. portrayed
• 25:32
  and yet like how often do we fall into that right
• 25:37
  all the time yeah what what's kind of your takeaway
• 25:39
  like uh from from that particular scene what
• 25:42
  what leads to that what what are kind of the
• 25:45
  emotions that kind of both sides are kind of
• 25:47
  experiencing when that happens both sides the
• 25:50
  wife and the wife and the husband uh -huh uh
• 25:53
  well in that in that moment from the husband's
• 25:56
  perspective i'd imagine sheer panic uh -huh um
• 25:59
  and then for the wife just utter frustration,
• 26:02
  which hopefully they're having good communication
• 26:07
  outside of the dinner table so that they know
• 26:09
  what, you know, how to proceed in those situations.
• 26:12
  But yeah, I mean, it just, it just kind of reinforces
• 26:16
  the fact that you have to be, especially as a
• 26:19
  parent, but you know, in the business world too,
• 26:20
  you have to be kind of hyper aware of what's
• 26:24
  happening around you. You don't really have the
• 26:26
  luxury of just zoning out. Yeah. So. I think
• 26:29
  it's sometimes representative, too, of even if
• 26:33
  somebody isn't necessarily zoned out, and I think
• 26:36
  he was paying attention to a hockey game or something,
• 26:38
  I think is what he was doing, that we will sometimes
• 26:41
  do that even in the conversation because the
• 26:45
  thoughts we have are on how we're going to respond.
• 26:48
  As opposed to, like you were suggesting, which
• 26:50
  is much healthier to do, which is to listen,
• 26:53
  trying to hear them and to understand what they're
• 26:56
  saying. In fact, we've got... I mean, there's
• 26:59
  a great quote, and probably everybody knows it,
• 27:01
  but from Stephen Covey, where he says, most people
• 27:04
  do not listen with the intent to understand.
• 27:06
  They listen with the intent to reply. And so,
• 27:09
  you know, we're basically shutting somebody out
• 27:12
  as if we were watching a hockey game if we're
• 27:14
  simply listening with the intent to reply. And
• 27:16
  I'm guilty of it all the time, especially when
• 27:19
  I'm discussing something with my wife. I'm like,
• 27:21
  oh, OK. Oh, no, I'm going to respond to that.
• 27:24
  No, no, no. I got to say this thing instead of.
• 27:27
  and I think as you suggested, like asking more
• 27:30
  questions. Yep. I think that's one of the keys,
• 27:32
  right? So as you're trying to listen for understanding,
• 27:36
  some also call active listening, what are the
• 27:39
  things that you do to try to be more active and
• 27:42
  present in hearing what that person's saying?
• 27:47
  One of the first things that popped in my mind
• 27:51
  is actually... I don't know if this actually
• 27:53
  works, but it has nothing to do with the person.
• 27:55
  I'm, I'm being mindful of, I guess it kind of
• 27:59
  has to do with the person. I'm being mindful
• 28:00
  of how they're perceiving me. Like, am I, am
• 28:04
  I kind of just looking deadpan because I'm like
• 28:06
  so hyper -focused that it's like, I'm listening,
• 28:08
  but to them, do I look like I'm zoned out or
• 28:11
  do I look like I'm not, I don't really care what
• 28:13
  they're saying. Yeah. And so, and I've done this
• 28:14
  in one -on -ones, but I've also done it in like,
• 28:17
  you know, when I'm done hiring interviews and
• 28:18
  stuff, I will. actively be like, you know, the
• 28:21
  whole smile with your eyes aspect. I'll be like,
• 28:23
  oh, I'm zoning. And I'll, you know, I'll kind
• 28:25
  of perk up and be like, oh, you know, I'm still
• 28:27
  here. I'm paying attention. And that seems to
• 28:29
  be kind of a nonverbal way to show others that,
• 28:33
  no, I'm listening. I'm, you know, paying attention
• 28:36
  to what you're saying. I'm here. I'm present.
• 28:39
  I will usually, aside from the asking questions,
• 28:43
  I will use like clarifying statements. So if
• 28:47
  someone says something. I will just kind of repeat
• 28:50
  back. It's like, oh, so you're meaning X, Y,
• 28:52
  Z type thing. And it shows to them that I actually
• 28:56
  was understanding what they were saying. I was
• 28:58
  listening to what they were saying. And then
• 28:59
  if there is a correction, if I misunderstood,
• 29:02
  it's like, yeah, kind of, but this, then I can,
• 29:05
  you know, be like, oh, I was listening, but I
• 29:08
  was taking it an entirely different way than
• 29:09
  where you were wanting to go with that. So now
• 29:11
  you've brought me back on track. I'm present
• 29:13
  again. You know, I was still listening, but for
• 29:16
  some reason or another. i missed a key point
• 29:18
  there to where i you know i needed to be where
• 29:20
  you were at so those are usually some of the
• 29:22
  the tactics that i'll use i think that's really
• 29:26
  good and um i hadn't thought about that first
• 29:29
  one much but i think you're right like the way
• 29:31
  that our body language is communicating is absolutely
• 29:34
  communication yep and so if we do have that very
• 29:38
  you know gruff look or you know for a brow look
• 29:41
  while they're saying something even if for us
• 29:43
  it actually means that we're focusing It doesn't
• 29:46
  for them. And if we're aware of that, then we
• 29:48
  can take a little reset. Like, okay, I got to
• 29:50
  smile so I'm more engaged. I think one of the
• 29:54
  things that a lot of times people say is leaning
• 29:56
  into it, raising your eyebrows so it shows that
• 29:58
  you're listening. There's one thing, too, that
• 30:01
  I've found that some people will do, I think,
• 30:05
  as they think it's a technique to show that they're
• 30:09
  listening and ultimately becomes supremely annoying,
• 30:12
  which is when you're talking to somebody, And
• 30:15
  instead of them just nodding their head when
• 30:17
  you're saying something, kind of like you and
• 30:18
  I have been doing, they say yes all the time.
• 30:20
  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all it ends up doing
• 30:24
  is just like interrupting the flow and it like
• 30:26
  just becomes very jarring. And sometimes I've
• 30:31
  seen people use that to try to take back control
• 30:34
  of the conversation, which then is like they're
• 30:36
  not listening at all. They're just trying to
• 30:38
  say yes so they can suddenly get the attention
• 30:40
  back or they can get the word in that they want
• 30:43
  to say. So it's one thing is I've talked to people
• 30:45
  or trained people on this. It's like you have
• 30:47
  to be really careful. Body language is way better.
• 30:50
  The yes and the yes become very annoying, and
• 30:54
  you've got to be very careful and cautious. You
• 30:56
  can still use them. Just be very cautious on
• 30:58
  how much you do use them because of that. Yeah,
• 31:01
  it becomes almost like a – if I can tell that
• 31:03
  you're wrapping up a thought or wrapping up at
• 31:06
  least a portion of what we're talking about,
• 31:07
  you can acknowledge it. As my family will attest
• 31:11
  to, it drives me crazy when someone, like I'm
• 31:13
  in the middle of some conversation and I'm sharing
• 31:16
  a thought, especially if I'm passionate about
• 31:18
  it, and someone just jumps in and starts talking
• 31:21
  about something else. I'm like, cool, I'm done.
• 31:24
  You want me to not listen at that point? It's
• 31:26
  like, hey, we're no longer having a conversation.
• 31:27
  You're just speaking at me. I'm not going to
• 31:29
  play that. But it almost, along the lines of
• 31:32
  what you were saying, where it's like they're
• 31:34
  trying to interject. That's what kind of comes
• 31:35
  across as like, okay, it's my turn now. It's
• 31:37
  my turn now. To the individual, it does break
• 31:40
  up their flow, but it also makes them feel rushed.
• 31:44
  It's like what I have to say is not important.
• 31:47
  And so it's like, oh, okay, I'm just bugging
• 31:49
  you. And not only do you not get the context
• 31:52
  of what's being said, which could be very, very
• 31:54
  important, and this is kind of going down a different
• 31:56
  tangent, but you potentially have damaged a relationship.
• 32:00
  And in the professional world, that's a problem,
• 32:02
  especially if you're like direct reports with
• 32:04
  that person. They're not going to feel like they
• 32:06
  can come to you with things. because they'll
• 32:08
  just feel like you'll just blow it off. So I
• 32:10
  hadn't thought about that one as well, but that's
• 32:12
  a big one. And what I really like, too, what
• 32:15
  you were saying about mirroring, is it's helpful
• 32:18
  for so many reasons. Just like you pointed out,
• 32:20
  it's helpful because you're showing that you
• 32:22
  listen, that you can also boil it down, what
• 32:23
  they're saying. The clarification one I found
• 32:26
  is really key, because there's times where a
• 32:28
  simple misunderstanding about a word or what
• 32:31
  a word means, the semantics of a word, can make
• 32:34
  all the difference. If one person is looking
• 32:37
  at that word and it means something to them and
• 32:39
  the other person it means something entirely
• 32:41
  different, using that mirroring technique and
• 32:44
  repeating it back in a way that they understand
• 32:45
  suddenly clarifies, oh, you thought that meant
• 32:48
  this. To me, it means that. Just like that, you
• 32:53
  can clear it up. And if you can clear those things
• 32:55
  up and avoid those, now suddenly the communication
• 32:57
  is improved vastly through simply doing that,
• 33:00
  which is – it's a really powerful way to do it.
• 33:05
  One of the things that I found super helpful
• 33:07
  is also just in asking the questions that, like
• 33:10
  you suggested, it's the idea of being curious
• 33:13
  in those questions, that you're genuinely curious
• 33:15
  for it, right? You're not just asking questions
• 33:17
  because, well, I've got to check this box. I've
• 33:19
  got to ask a question, right? So I'm going to
• 33:21
  throw something in here that's kind of like it's
• 33:23
  a question. I want to seem smart. Yes. I have
• 33:26
  to act like a leader. So I have to ask questions.
• 33:29
  Totally. And you can feel the difference between
• 33:32
  that and someone who's like genuinely curious.
• 33:37
  My sister -in -law is one of the best question
• 33:41
  askers that I've ever met. And she has this way,
• 33:45
  especially like meeting new people or talking
• 33:48
  to people where she's just so genuinely curious
• 33:51
  that it's like she can immediately build a relationship
• 33:53
  because she's being so sincere and so genuine.
• 33:56
  and asking those questions. And the other person
• 33:58
  feels like, wow, this person's like my best friend.
• 34:01
  I love this person. And it's just as simple as
• 34:03
  bringing that curiosity to the questions. I mean,
• 34:06
  it's not that simple because it's actually hard.
• 34:07
  It's hard to do it naturally and genuinely and
• 34:11
  keep it there and keep it in tune. But when you
• 34:15
  can master that skill, my goodness, it opens
• 34:18
  up a lot. You will go far. Yeah, it opens up
• 34:20
  a lot. especially with employees, coworkers,
• 34:24
  right? Just in the professional realm it does.
• 34:26
  And then outside the professional realm, of course,
• 34:27
  like many other applications with your networking
• 34:30
  or making friends in so many other ways. So,
• 34:33
  okay. So with this idea of communication, one
• 34:38
  of the things we see with Riley and her parents
• 34:40
  is they're just really lack of effective communication
• 34:43
  for a while, right? Where... Their communication
• 34:47
  really starts to break down after this move happens.
• 34:50
  So they're, what was it in, I want to say it
• 34:53
  was in Minnesota. Is that where they were? They're
• 34:55
  in Minnesota. And they got to make this move,
• 34:57
  presumably for dad's job. I think that's what
• 34:59
  it was. And they moved to San Francisco, vastly
• 35:01
  different place than Minnesota was. And Riley
• 35:04
  really begins to like struggle with this thing.
• 35:07
  And I mean, she's a tween. And so like her communication
• 35:10
  with her parents is not there. I think what we
• 35:14
  see with Riley is, It's kind of like she's kind
• 35:17
  of been like this kind of perfect job for them,
• 35:20
  and then suddenly her world is disrupted, and
• 35:23
  she's feeling it, but she's not willing to communicate
• 35:26
  it because she's still got to have this perception
• 35:27
  of being this perfect child. When people are
• 35:32
  experiencing those kind of breakdowns in communication,
• 35:35
  how do you identify when someone is not sharing?
• 35:41
  The things that maybe they share that are struggling
• 35:42
  with them. How do you pull that out of somebody
• 35:45
  effectively? Like for Riley's parents, them trying
• 35:48
  to pull it out of her in a way that's going to
• 35:51
  be genuine and sincere and allowing her to express
• 35:55
  it without just holding those things in. Because
• 35:56
  I think that's really hard. I think it kind of
• 35:59
  goes back to one of the things you mentioned
• 36:00
  before about the being genuine aspect. Knowing
• 36:04
  when to be a person as opposed to a leader. Because
• 36:10
  it's – we've all experienced in the business
• 36:14
  world where at times you feel more like a cog
• 36:18
  in a wheel as opposed to an actual individual,
• 36:21
  someone who's contributing, who feels valued.
• 36:24
  You're just kind of – you're a dollar sign on
• 36:27
  a spreadsheet. Anytime somebody feels that way,
• 36:31
  I think instantly they're going to kind of close
• 36:33
  off. They're not going to want to have conversations
• 36:35
  with leaders because they feel like they're not
• 36:37
  being understood or they're not being heard.
• 36:39
  or that we don't care. So I will look at a few
• 36:43
  things. If I'm like running a team meeting, for
• 36:46
  example, and I know that when I'm, you know,
• 36:49
  based on my past conversations, I know that someone
• 36:52
  is usually a pretty outgoing person. They communicate
• 36:54
  with the team. They, you know, in past team meetings,
• 36:56
  they've been very present. And even if it's just
• 37:00
  cracking jokes and not necessarily contributing
• 37:01
  from a business standpoint, if I'm noticing differences
• 37:05
  with that, that will be kind of a... Maybe we
• 37:10
  should do a check -in and see. It's like, hey,
• 37:12
  how are things going? Just in general. Now, obviously,
• 37:15
  maintaining professionalism because we're not
• 37:17
  therapists, but, you know, it should be like
• 37:19
  things good with you. You're doing okay. Any
• 37:23
  struggles with the job? Any struggles that you
• 37:24
  want to bring up to me? And, again, making it
• 37:27
  their decision if they want to share. We're not
• 37:31
  going to sit there and pry into their life. And
• 37:35
  then just, you know, kind of being able to show
• 37:37
  that you care. As an example, I had a woman on
• 37:41
  one of my teams when I worked at Thumbtack. And
• 37:45
  it was hard for me to kind of gauge how to interact
• 37:50
  with her because she was in her 60s, I think.
• 37:54
  And so it's like, okay, you've got 30 years on
• 37:56
  me. You've got all this life experience. She'd
• 37:59
  worked at a bunch of places. She'd raised four
• 38:00
  kids and all these things. So I had to try to
• 38:03
  find unique ways to be able to. have that conversation,
• 38:08
  but I felt like I had a good enough rapport with
• 38:10
  her during one of the one -on -ones. I was just
• 38:12
  like, Hey, you know what? I don't know what it
• 38:14
  is. Something feels kind of off. Like, are you,
• 38:17
  are you doing okay? Like, is there, is there
• 38:19
  anything you want to talk about? Is there anything
• 38:20
  you want to, you want to bring up? Um, cause
• 38:23
  I'm, you know, I'm here to listen if, if you
• 38:26
  need to. And she initially said no. And we started
• 38:29
  having a conversation about her performance,
• 38:31
  about work. And she started She started talking
• 38:36
  about, you know, one of the calls that we had
• 38:38
  just graded. And I was like, yeah, I noticed
• 38:40
  that you seemed a little, like you got flustered
• 38:42
  on that call. And again, I asked her, it's like,
• 38:47
  was everything okay? Like, is this not typically
• 38:49
  what happens? And she just opened up and started
• 38:52
  telling me all this stuff that was going on.
• 38:53
  So I think it's an aspect of being genuine. Again,
• 38:57
  being kind of always present, not zoning out
• 39:00
  and being like, you know, it's fine. It doesn't
• 39:02
  matter. You have to be able to pick up on those
• 39:04
  things. If something feels off and then trust
• 39:08
  your gut when it's like, Hey, just curious. Is
• 39:12
  everything okay? Yeah. Before we jump back in,
• 39:16
  can I ask you a quick favor? If you're enjoying
• 39:19
  the journey so far, will you like rate and subscribe
• 39:22
  to our show? It helps us reach more people like
• 39:25
  you. We can design and create and build the most
• 39:29
  wonderful place in the world, but it takes people.
• 39:32
  To make the dream a reality. It's such a good
• 39:37
  example of a couple of things. I mean, the first
• 39:40
  one is that it's inviting the person to. We can't
• 39:43
  force them to. Because you just can't. Sometimes
• 39:46
  people have to express it in their time. And
• 39:49
  that's one of the things we see with Riley and
• 39:51
  her parents, right? They know something's wrong.
• 39:54
  And they're trying to. But before she ends up
• 39:57
  opening up. We have this like explosion back.
• 39:59
  And I wrote down one of them that she was like,
• 40:01
  she yells at him like, what is your problem?
• 40:03
  Just leave me alone, right? Like classic kid
• 40:05
  thing. But we as adults do that same thing. Sometimes
• 40:08
  we're invited to, but we're not there for whatever
• 40:11
  reason. But one of the other quotes that I wrote
• 40:15
  down was from Daniel Pink, who is author, public
• 40:18
  speaker. He's got some great books. In one book
• 40:21
  called To Sell is Human, he wrote, listening
• 40:23
  without some degree of intimacy isn't really
• 40:26
  listening. It's passive and transactional rather
• 40:30
  than active and engaged. And when I heard you
• 40:34
  talking about those words that you were using,
• 40:36
  I actually wrote them down before, and then you
• 40:38
  said the exact words. When I was thinking about
• 40:40
  this quote, like what does it mean, intimacy?
• 40:43
  Because we're not talking about romantic intimacy,
• 40:44
  obviously. We're talking about something very
• 40:46
  different. I wrote down genuine presence, and
• 40:49
  you used both of those words precisely because
• 40:51
  that's it. If we're genuine, we actually care
• 40:55
  about that person. And we're being present with
• 40:57
  them. We've invested into their reality, what
• 41:01
  their life is. We create a space in which they
• 41:05
  could share if we invite them to. They might
• 41:09
  not. We can't force it. But it certainly won't
• 41:11
  happen if they don't feel safe enough to do it.
• 41:13
  And I think it's along those same lines. You
• 41:15
  talk about the example with Riley. It's not just
• 41:17
  her parents either. There's that example in the
• 41:19
  movie where she's talking to one of her friends.
• 41:21
  And they're talking about how well the team is
• 41:24
  doing and all these different things. If you
• 41:26
  don't, it's you have to have that intimacy. It
• 41:28
  has to come from both sides. If you're going
• 41:30
  to be willingly having those conversations and
• 41:32
  make it genuine and make it present. That's one
• 41:35
  of the things that was missing for Riley is it
• 41:37
  just like, nope, that aspect of who I am is now
• 41:41
  closed. And you have to kind of sometimes you
• 41:44
  have to kind of hit, you know, rock bottom, for
• 41:47
  lack of a better term, before you open that door
• 41:50
  up again and let people that used to have that
• 41:52
  kind of connection with you have that connection
• 41:53
  again. Or let somebody else in to be like, hey,
• 41:55
  I genuinely just want to help. So I like that
• 41:58
  quite a lot. And one of the things that we'll
• 42:01
  see here with kids in divorces is they get to
• 42:07
  that space where they don't feel safe. People
• 42:12
  know something's wrong. I mean, obviously, right?
• 42:14
  If their parents have gone through divorce, like
• 42:16
  everybody knows that theoretically this kid should
• 42:18
  be experiencing some things. But it's very easy
• 42:22
  for those kids to get to a place where they don't
• 42:24
  feel like they have a safe place to actually
• 42:26
  communicate that. Or what they're going to communicate
• 42:28
  is not genuinely how they feel because they're
• 42:30
  trying to protect other people's feelings. And
• 42:33
  they become a really difficult thing for kids
• 42:35
  that are in divorce situations. And by the same
• 42:40
  token, the same thing happens to us as adults,
• 42:42
  right? We sometimes like to act like it's just
• 42:43
  the kids whose brains are not fully developed.
• 42:45
  And they've got loads of excuses. Our brains
• 42:48
  are. And we're doing the same dumb stuff, right?
• 42:51
  We're doing the same dumb stuff. Yeah. But it's
• 42:54
  really easy for us to fall back into that. It's
• 42:56
  really easy for us to fall back into, like, the
• 42:57
  reactionary, like, no, I'm going to shut people
• 42:59
  out. Yeah. I don't want to open up about this.
• 43:03
  I don't want to be vulnerable about this. I don't
• 43:06
  want to hear what you have to say. You know,
• 43:08
  just leave me alone. It's really easy for us
• 43:10
  to get there. Well, we take it a step further
• 43:12
  as adults because it's not only, you know, I
• 43:15
  don't want to be that open with you. I don't
• 43:16
  want to talk about this. It's like, well, you
• 43:17
  won't care anyway. And we turn it on them. I
• 43:21
  luckily haven't experienced a divorced home,
• 43:25
  but I have a number of friends who have. And
• 43:27
  I think it kind of comes across that way sometimes
• 43:28
  with kids too. It's like it turns into, as they
• 43:31
  get older, they think it's their fault that the
• 43:34
  parents got divorced. And as they become adults,
• 43:37
  everything starts to turn on, well, yeah, it's
• 43:40
  me, but you wouldn't want this anyway. You wouldn't
• 43:43
  want to have this conversation. You're not going
• 43:44
  to listen. You're not going to care. You're not
• 43:45
  going to help. And it's so – if you're not –
• 43:49
  you have to have that intimacy level. But even
• 43:51
  if that's not there, if you're having genuine
• 43:54
  interactions with somebody, that's how you start
• 43:56
  to kind of knock on the door or break down the
• 43:57
  wall. I'd be like, no. If I didn't care, if I
• 44:02
  didn't want to have this conversation, if I didn't
• 44:04
  want you to be better or want you to succeed
• 44:06
  if you're looking at the business world, I wouldn't
• 44:09
  ask. So hopefully they're willing at that point
• 44:12
  to be like, all right, let's have a conversation.
• 44:14
  I think what it highlights for me as well is
• 44:17
  something I like to talk a lot about, which is
• 44:19
  kind of the key difference between kindness and
• 44:23
  being nice. Kindness is born of empathy. And
• 44:27
  the only way you can really empathize with somebody
• 44:30
  is to try to understand them, to try to find
• 44:33
  out more about them, be genuinely interested
• 44:34
  in them, in their lives, what's going on for
• 44:37
  them. Because if we don't, like if we can't remember
• 44:40
  things about their lives or remember things that
• 44:42
  they've told us before, they're not going to
• 44:44
  have any kind of confidence that we actually
• 44:46
  genuinely care, right? Like, can you remember
• 44:49
  my kid's name? You don't even know that I have
• 44:50
  kids or not. You don't remember this or that
• 44:51
  about me. It feels surface level. Yeah. And so
• 44:54
  it takes extra work to build the foundations
• 44:57
  of that relationship so that you can have those
• 45:01
  intimate conversations in this context, right?
• 45:04
  Have those conversations that break down some
• 45:08
  of the walls. You have to really lay the foundation.
• 45:10
  And you don't lay the foundation for selfish
• 45:14
  reasons either. We had a guest on who is a military
• 45:18
  interrogator. And he talked a lot about the difference
• 45:21
  for him between manipulation and influence. And
• 45:25
  for him, the key difference was manipulation
• 45:26
  is when I'm going to do that to benefit myself.
• 45:30
  But influence is when I'm going to do this thing
• 45:32
  to benefit somebody else. And so when we want
• 45:36
  to learn about somebody and be able to be genuinely
• 45:38
  interested, it's because we're interested for
• 45:40
  their sake, not for a selfish reason. Not because,
• 45:43
  well, I really want to get this person to do
• 45:44
  what I want at work. Now we're just manipulating.
• 45:47
  Now it's not genuine. Now it's not authentic,
• 45:49
  right? We have to keep in mind those motivations
• 45:51
  so that it comes across well because this lady
• 45:54
  that you were talking to, this older lady, like
• 45:56
  she could have sniffed it out if you had been
• 45:59
  totally selfishly motivated, but you weren't,
• 46:01
  right? And so that led to... a deeper level of
• 46:04
  communication where she felt safe enough to have
• 46:06
  that conversation with you, which is hard, which
• 46:09
  is so hard. And honestly, it meant, it meant
• 46:11
  a lot. Like that was when, if I remember correctly,
• 46:14
  this was a long time ago, but if I remember correctly,
• 46:15
  that was, that was the biggest takeaway from,
• 46:17
  from that day. It's like, this was the thing
• 46:19
  that happened today that I love the most. And
• 46:22
  we had a bunch of great stuff. Like we had a
• 46:24
  meeting where it's like, yeah, we won this award
• 46:25
  and you know, yada, yada, yada. It's like, I
• 46:28
  don't care. I actually, you know, Finally broke
• 46:30
  down one of those walls with this person that
• 46:32
  I've been trying to for a while. And it was just
• 46:35
  the coolest feeling. That's amazing. I wrote
• 46:38
  another quote from a lady named Amy Edmondson.
• 46:41
  And this was in something she wrote called The
• 46:43
  Fearless Organization. And what she said was,
• 46:46
  low levels of psychological safety can create
• 46:49
  a culture of silence. It can also create a Cassandra
• 46:53
  culture, an environment in which speaking up
• 46:55
  is belittled and warnings go unheeded. And I
• 46:59
  think that plays into what we're talking about
• 47:01
  here, right? How do we fight that? How do we
• 47:05
  avoid creating a culture of silence so that people
• 47:08
  are actually willing to, first off, speak up
• 47:11
  in the individual communications, but also speak
• 47:14
  up and communicate in meetings where they feel
• 47:16
  like they can give opinions and give their ideas
• 47:19
  without feeling they're going to be belittled
• 47:21
  or condescended to if they come up with something
• 47:27
  or say something. How do we create that better
• 47:29
  culture? That's one of the biggest questions
• 47:33
  that I don't think anybody's gotten the perfect
• 47:35
  answer to yet. Sure. In my mind, it's the human
• 47:42
  element again. I think we've all been there in
• 47:45
  those meetings where we're expected to chime
• 47:49
  in. And we finally do. And we feel nervous. It
• 47:52
  was like that didn't come across. I don't think
• 47:54
  I explained that the way I should have, or they
• 47:56
  probably understand what I meant. And it was
• 47:59
  either just like dead silent or someone just
• 48:02
  said, okay, thanks. Or they actually started
• 48:04
  teasing you because you maybe started over your
• 48:06
  words or something. Those individuals that have
• 48:11
  had that experience, a lot of times become the
• 48:14
  leaders that are now running those meetings.
• 48:16
  So what I would hope. that when they're looking
• 48:18
  at the culture that they are trying to foster
• 48:22
  and the culture they're trying to build, they
• 48:25
  remember what it was like when they were in that
• 48:27
  person's shoes. And you are gracious that someone
• 48:32
  actually spoke up. You are accepting of what
• 48:37
  it was. And I think it kind of goes along with
• 48:40
  one of the things we already talked about before.
• 48:42
  You can clarify something. Like, okay, so are
• 48:44
  you meaning this? Yes, I am. No, I'm not. Okay,
• 48:48
  let's have a conversation with it. You know,
• 48:51
  if you want to try to have someone else join
• 48:53
  in on the conversation, if someone that normally
• 48:56
  talks up says something, you'd be like, oh, yeah,
• 48:59
  you know what, Joe, you and I were actually talking
• 49:01
  about something like that a couple days ago.
• 49:03
  I loved what you said during that conversation.
• 49:05
  Would you mind sharing that with the team? You're
• 49:08
  building them up before they even say anything.
• 49:10
  You're verifying that it's like, yep, you had
• 49:12
  a great point. I loved it so much. I feel like
• 49:15
  everybody else should experience that as well.
• 49:17
  Just being engaging and having that type of like
• 49:22
  everybody here is an equal and I'm going to treat
• 49:25
  you like an equal and I treat you like a human.
• 49:27
  You all deserve to be in this room. I think it's
• 49:31
  really hard to do, to remember to do, but so
• 49:34
  key if you can do exactly what you said, which
• 49:36
  is take that prior conversation. highlight it
• 49:38
  to other people because it boosts that person's
• 49:40
  confidence. Now, when they're in a group setting,
• 49:43
  when they're in some kind of meeting with more
• 49:46
  people, they're more likely to voice that because
• 49:48
  they've had it validated. Okay, contributions
• 49:52
  that I had or that I made or that I came up with
• 49:54
  or an idea was validated. Maybe I'm good enough
• 49:57
  to speak up. Maybe I can say something in this
• 50:00
  meeting without the fear of just being shut down
• 50:02
  or made to look dumb. And I really love that
• 50:07
  suggestion. highlighting people's strengths in
• 50:10
  front of everybody is a really great one. So
• 50:12
  when we come to an inside out, when there's this
• 50:17
  kind of the resolution of it, right, where finally
• 50:19
  Riley kind of gets broken down and she kind of
• 50:24
  tried to run away and then comes back and finally
• 50:26
  is willing to kind of pour her out to her parents.
• 50:28
  This is what she says. I know you don't want
• 50:31
  me to, but I miss home. I miss Minnesota. You
• 50:35
  need me to be happy, but I want my old friends
• 50:37
  and my hockey team. I want to go home. Please
• 50:40
  don't be mad. What are you going to learn from
• 50:43
  what she's kind of communicating to her parents?
• 50:47
  That it's okay to allow yourself to feel what
• 50:50
  you're feeling. In personal life and professional
• 50:55
  life, you're going to have days that are just
• 50:59
  going to be hard. If we're open with how we're
• 51:02
  feeling and open with that communication. Nine
• 51:04
  times out of ten, that's the kind of response
• 51:06
  we're going to get from other people is accepting,
• 51:09
  understanding, loving, you know, things of that
• 51:12
  nature. And it's so, I think, wonderfully depicted
• 51:17
  from the emotions inside Riley's head to about
• 51:21
  where kind of some of this resolution comes,
• 51:24
  where you see the character Joy embracing sadness.
• 51:29
  And then you start to see some of her core memories
• 51:32
  replayed where. there's moments of sadness that
• 51:35
  turn into joy, right? The one core memory they
• 51:39
  kind of showed throughout was like her hockey
• 51:42
  team, all lifting her up on their shoulders and
• 51:44
  cheering. And then at the end you actually see,
• 51:47
  and it rewinds and actually she missed the winning
• 51:49
  goal. They would have won the championship. She
• 51:52
  missed it. At the moment where they're like on
• 51:54
  the tree branch. Yes. And then suddenly they
• 51:57
  come to her. And they helped celebrate her because
• 52:00
  of all the amazing things she did do. And so
• 52:02
  that became a moment of joy. And I just think
• 52:05
  it's really a good depiction of like, we can
• 52:07
  feel sadness. We can miss something. We can be
• 52:11
  having a hard time with something. And that's
• 52:13
  okay. It's okay to feel that. And we can also
• 52:18
  talk to somebody else about it and we can move
• 52:20
  forward. We can then embrace what comes next.
• 52:23
  We accept that sadness, but if we try to lock
• 52:25
  it down, we try to store it away, we try to hide
• 52:28
  those feelings, then it's going to end up coming
• 52:30
  out in this giant burst, much like it did with
• 52:32
  Riley, right? And it can eat you alive, depending
• 52:36
  on what those emotions are. Yeah, and they can
• 52:39
  turn into a lot of other things, too. I think
• 52:40
  what we see with Riley, which, again, is just
• 52:41
  a great depiction, is it turning into a bunch
• 52:43
  of anger, right? Anger comes out, and then suddenly
• 52:45
  anger is controlling everything. And he's taking
• 52:48
  control of all the controls, and he's pushing
• 52:50
  everybody off, and he's doing it all, and she's
• 52:52
  just firing away. Well, and there's no... Is
• 52:54
  he the one that puts the idea in where they couldn't
• 52:57
  get the light bulb out? Yes. Where it's like,
• 52:59
  no, we're stuck on this path now? Yep. It's dangerous
• 53:02
  when you just let everything just kind of fester.
• 53:06
  Yeah. Because naturally, it will all kind of
• 53:08
  turn into anger at some point anyway. Yeah. I
• 53:11
  think this is skipping over to Inside Out 2.
• 53:16
  You talk about when... joy embraces sadness that
• 53:20
  was one of the biggest moments for me in the
• 53:23
  second one is when joy embraces riley like that
• 53:27
  i don't even remember what it was like her personality
• 53:30
  that's constantly changing from yeah happy to
• 53:33
  sad to anxious and all these different things
• 53:35
  and she just you know and then they all come
• 53:36
  in and hug them like i think that's kind of a
• 53:39
  good depiction as well of what happens when we
• 53:41
  allow ourselves to truly feel those emotions,
• 53:45
  have those hard conversations and not just let
• 53:48
  one emotion run everything. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
• 53:53
  I love that. All right. So let's take us to a
• 53:55
  couple of quick segments. Okay. We're having
• 53:57
  some fun. All right. So first segment is this
• 54:00
  or that. Okay. So you gotta be ready. You might
• 54:04
  have to defend it. If we think your pick is controversial,
• 54:06
  you know, we're going to have that whole conversation.
• 54:08
  I would never do such a thing. All right. So
• 54:11
  the first one. Joy or sadness? Oh, joy. Joy.
• 54:17
  Sadness is really good. Sadness is great, and
• 54:20
  it's... The actress that depicts her, I mean...
• 54:25
  From The Office? From The Office. She's fantastic.
• 54:27
  Played Phyllis? I don't know what her real name
• 54:28
  is. Is it Phyllis? It's her real name. It's her
• 54:31
  real name. I don't know what her last name is,
• 54:33
  but I was just waiting for her to say, like,
• 54:35
  Van's Refrigeration at some point during Inside
• 54:38
  Out. But no, I love... That's a hard one because
• 54:41
  they play so well off of each other in that movie.
• 54:45
  But I actually think we get a lot of, even though
• 54:47
  joy is the emotion, we get a lot of different
• 54:49
  emotions from joy. And so I really like the way
• 54:52
  that that's depicted in the movie. So I'd have
• 54:54
  to go with joy. Love it. Minnesota or San Francisco?
• 54:58
  San Francisco. You've been to Minnesota? No,
• 55:01
  that's why it's San Francisco. Just a layover
• 55:04
  for me. It was the only time I've ever been there.
• 55:05
  Same. And it was cold, and I was like, oh, okay,
• 55:07
  it's cold, like everybody says. If it's anything
• 55:09
  like Michigan, like I loved Michigan. I mean,
• 55:12
  we already talked about that. But I froze in
• 55:14
  Michigan. It was so cold. So I just couldn't
• 55:19
  do that. There's parts of my spine that are still
• 55:20
  frozen, and I got home 20 years ago. Like it's
• 55:23
  so cold, it just cuts right through you. I love
• 55:27
  San Francisco. I've had a chance to go a handful
• 55:29
  of times. Went to a 49ers game the last time
• 55:31
  I was there. Yes. It's such a great city. We've
• 55:35
  only been once. We took all the kids. Unfortunately,
• 55:38
  it was only a preseason game. We did go to a
• 55:40
  Niner game. Still loved it. Talk about a great
• 55:42
  stadium. Oh, yeah. That is a great stadium. And
• 55:44
  it was funny. When I was re -watching Inside
• 55:48
  Out, when they moved to San Francisco, they show.
• 55:51
  the windy street. I can't remember what it's
• 55:53
  called. My kids are like, we've been there. We've
• 55:55
  been there. I was like, yes, we have. That's
• 55:57
  a dad moment paying off. Take the kids traveling
• 56:00
  and they recognize things. I love it. It's perfect.
• 56:02
  It's, it's, you know, it's core memories. Yeah,
• 56:04
  totally is. Yeah. So I love it. Every time they
• 56:06
  see that street, they'll remember that trip,
• 56:07
  which is kind of fun. Okay. Imagination land
• 56:10
  or bing bongs rocket. I don't know either one
• 56:15
  of them. So, so bing bongs rocket is when. bing
• 56:19
  bong and joy are like trapped in the in this
• 56:21
  pit oh and she can't get out yeah for some reason
• 56:24
  i went to like rides oh yeah so this is the movie
• 56:27
  this is the movie and so to get out they have
• 56:29
  to like believe and try to do it and then ultimately
• 56:32
  she's only able to get out because bing bong
• 56:33
  like gives her the last shove she finally gets
• 56:36
  out of it yeah yeah imagination land in her head
• 56:40
  is fun but the rocket carries so much more like
• 56:42
  emotion in the movie Yeah, and I can only really
• 56:44
  remember three parts. There's the Cloud City
• 56:46
  part, which is clever. Something having to do
• 56:50
  with French fries, and I'm not a big French fry
• 56:51
  person. You're not? No. Now that's controversial.
• 56:54
  I will eat them when they're warm. As soon as
• 56:57
  they cool off, I'm like, we're done. I will give
• 56:58
  you that, 100%. And you can't reheat them. No.
• 57:02
  People try to have leftover fries. I'm like,
• 57:04
  heathens. No. Okay, you want controversy? Those
• 57:07
  that dip their fries in a Wendy's Frosty, blasphemy.
• 57:12
  You know what? I actually agree. I don't like
• 57:15
  it at all. I don't either, especially if the
• 57:17
  fries are warm because then it just melts and
• 57:19
  it just tastes like a fry. And for some reason,
• 57:22
  it's this big thing, and I don't get it. It's
• 57:24
  not good for me. I don't either. I do love fries,
• 57:26
  though. They do need to be piping hot. You can
• 57:28
  be piping hot fries. Salty or like the ones,
• 57:31
  I can't remember what they're called, but where
• 57:33
  they come with like the cheese and oregano or
• 57:39
  something on it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they have them
• 57:42
  at Disney, a number of places. I can't remember
• 57:46
  what they're called now. But those are really
• 57:48
  good. But I also prefer the shoestring fries.
• 57:53
  Really? I like them when they're crispy. Skinny
• 57:55
  ones? Skinny crispy, huh? Yep. I think I like
• 57:58
  all. I love McDonald's. I love the waffle fries
• 58:01
  at Chick -fil -A. I love the crinkle cut fries
• 58:03
  at Culver's. I just love fries. This is how bad
• 58:08
  it's going. When I go to Culver's, I get the
• 58:10
  cheese curds instead of fries. And they're not
• 58:13
  that good. They're not bad. The cheese curds
• 58:16
  aren't bad. I kind of like them, but I do prefer
• 58:18
  their fries. They also have good fry sauce, but
• 58:20
  that's a Utah thing, so I'm the fry sauce guy.
• 58:23
  Okay. Text or voice memo? Voice memo. You are
• 58:33
  not the first person that's told me that recently.
• 58:35
  I mean, I'm just shocked. People do that apparently
• 58:38
  a lot. If the person I'm talking to is open to
• 58:42
  it, I prefer to do that. Marco Polo, like I was
• 58:44
  listening to one on the way here. Marco Polo,
• 58:46
  I love that because it's nice when you can actually
• 58:48
  see the person you're talking to. But even then
• 58:51
  with voice texting, it's like there's so, and
• 58:56
  again, talking about communication, if you're
• 58:58
  just texting, there's so much that can be lost
• 59:00
  and misinterpreted. If you send a big text, like
• 59:03
  I think there's even a Keenan Peele commercial
• 59:07
  about that, where it's just like, hey, you know,
• 59:09
  are we still meeting at the bar? Like, why are
• 59:12
  you so aggressive? Like, why are you why are
• 59:13
  you? And he's like, oh, just happy. Like, oh,
• 59:15
  yeah. Are we still meeting at the bar? And Peele's
• 59:18
  like, are we still meeting at the bar? What do
• 59:21
  you mean? Question mark. He's like, oh, yeah,
• 59:23
  I thought we were like one of them is just so
• 59:25
  happy. The other person just looks like he's
• 59:27
  pissed at the world. And it's just a very, you
• 59:30
  know. Easygoing conversation. So I don't like
• 59:34
  the fact that that can happen when you text.
• 59:37
  Plus, to make sure that that doesn't happen in
• 59:39
  my text messages, and my friends will attest
• 59:41
  to this, I have a tendency to use emojis way
• 59:44
  too much. Do they know that I'm joking or something?
• 59:47
  So when they can actually hear the inflection
• 59:49
  of my voice, I prefer that. That's why when I
• 59:52
  text, I mean, I'm... emoji or i'm almost always
• 59:55
  throwing a haha yeah or an lol yep because i
• 59:58
  want them to know this is like this is like it's
• 1:00:00
  not serious yes like let's it's fun yeah it's
• 1:00:04
  i you you might be convincing me this again you're
• 1:00:07
  the second person who i respect their opinion
• 1:00:08
  who's told me voice memos are like the thing
• 1:00:10
  i might have to do more of that because i talk
• 1:00:12
  to text why not just do it as a voice memo talk
• 1:00:15
  to talk i mean it's just it's the only downfall
• 1:00:19
  to it And I don't know if Android has this, but
• 1:00:21
  for iPhone, when you're sending a voice memo,
• 1:00:24
  it caps at five minutes. So it'll just stop the
• 1:00:27
  message at five minutes. That drives me crazy.
• 1:00:29
  You said some long ones. I'm thinking five minutes
• 1:00:32
  is forever. Well, you should hear my Marco Polos.
• 1:00:37
  I've sent some 25, 30 minutes. It depends on
• 1:00:42
  the conversation and who you're talking to and
• 1:00:44
  everything. And sometimes you just really have
• 1:00:45
  to vent. Yeah, apparently. My goodness. Let it
• 1:00:49
  go. Yeah, I mean, for me, as long as I can then
• 1:00:52
  replay it in, you know, time and a half or double
• 1:00:54
  speed, I'm good to go. Which you can. Yeah. It's
• 1:00:57
  an option. Okay, next one is Disneyland or Disney
• 1:01:01
  World? Okay. Even though, I guess Disney World
• 1:01:04
  was your first, but it was a bad experience.
• 1:01:07
  Was that where you got lost? That is where I
• 1:01:10
  got lost, yes. It's not even so much that, because,
• 1:01:12
  like, we actually went to Disneyland. Not too
• 1:01:16
  long after that, I think I was four or five.
• 1:01:18
  The only thing I remember is we stayed at a hotel
• 1:01:21
  directly across from the Disneyland entrance
• 1:01:24
  because California Adventure wasn't there. And
• 1:01:27
  so it had that big main street and all these
• 1:01:29
  hotels and stuff. And I remember that and I remember
• 1:01:34
  my family having a good time. For me, I think
• 1:01:38
  it actually carries into when I got reintroduced
• 1:01:41
  to Disney and going to parks and stuff. I had
• 1:01:44
  so much just the feelings that I have. It's like
• 1:01:49
  I talked about at the beginning. You walked in
• 1:01:50
  and just like, okay, this is awesome. This is
• 1:01:53
  where I'm supposed to be. And I love Disney World
• 1:01:57
  as well. Not as much, but I love it as well.
• 1:02:00
  I have never had that feeling walking into a
• 1:02:03
  park at Disney World. Ever. I love the rides.
• 1:02:06
  I love the experiences. They have some things
• 1:02:08
  there that you can't get at Disneyland. When
• 1:02:12
  I go into Disney, it's just, I'm just happy.
• 1:02:16
  This is great. Plus, there's so many, I mean,
• 1:02:19
  four parks, they're far apart. They are. It's
• 1:02:22
  harder to do. You can't park hop with those ones.
• 1:02:24
  At least I don't think you should. You lose too
• 1:02:26
  much time. I did all four parks in one day before.
• 1:02:28
  Oh, that sounds horrible. Yeah. That sounds horrible.
• 1:02:31
  It was rough. Yeah. They need a Tron ride, too.
• 1:02:34
  They are. Because you like Magic Kingdom. They're
• 1:02:36
  bringing the Tron ride? That's what I've heard.
• 1:02:38
  Oh, my goodness. That ride is unbelievable. So,
• 1:02:41
  you know, in Disneyland, I cannot remember the
• 1:02:44
  name of the ride. So there's the Nemo ride with
• 1:02:50
  the submarines and stuff. And there's the, what
• 1:02:53
  is it called? Autopia. Yeah. Apparently, this,
• 1:02:58
  I guess, is not technically official, but it's
• 1:03:00
  been floated that they're going to get rid of
• 1:03:02
  Nemo. They're going to get rid of... I can't
• 1:03:06
  even say the name right. And they're going to
• 1:03:07
  put Tron in there, which would be, because that's
• 1:03:11
  Tomorrowland. That's the perfect spot to put
• 1:03:13
  it. That's right where it should go. See, I would
• 1:03:16
  love that. I've got to imagine that's going to
• 1:03:18
  be controversial because, I mean, Autopia goes
• 1:03:20
  back to the opening of Disneyland, right? Like
• 1:03:23
  it was there at the opening. But there's so much
• 1:03:27
  that, if you honestly were to tally up the number
• 1:03:33
  of people, who go to Disneyland in a given year,
• 1:03:36
  what percentage of them do you think have actually
• 1:03:38
  ridden that ride? Autopia? Yeah. That's a great
• 1:03:42
  question. I have gone at least once a year for
• 1:03:44
  the last 10 years. And you never go? I have never
• 1:03:47
  ridden it. You've never? See, there's actually
• 1:03:50
  a pretty long line most days. Okay, let's take
• 1:03:53
  you to our rapid fire, okay? So first one that
• 1:03:56
  comes to your mind, it's mostly Disney related,
• 1:03:58
  of course. Favorite Disney movie? We're talking
• 1:04:04
  Disney as a whole, Disney classic, Pixar. Whatever
• 1:04:08
  you want it to mean. Toy Story. Okay. Love that.
• 1:04:12
  Favorite Disney song? Ooh, out there, Hunchback.
• 1:04:17
  Okay. I've played him twice on stage. So that's
• 1:04:21
  why. I have a soft spot. So wait, you can sing
• 1:04:23
  then. I'm okay. Man, I'm jealous. I really love
• 1:04:27
  the theater, and I can't sing it all though.
• 1:04:29
  And so it's really limiting on what you can be
• 1:04:32
  in because... Musical theater is just, it's more
• 1:04:35
  popular, more people go, there's more opportunities.
• 1:04:37
  It's fair, but also, I mean, the last two musicals
• 1:04:41
  that I've been in didn't sing a note. Oh, you
• 1:04:44
  were just... No, I just did Fiddler on the Roof
• 1:04:45
  at the Ruth down in Orem. Oh, did you? I was
• 1:04:47
  the constable. He doesn't sing. No kidding. So
• 1:04:50
  it was purely acting for me, but I got a chance
• 1:04:51
  to enjoy everybody else doing stuff, and then
• 1:04:54
  I did Newsies at the Hale here in Sandy, and
• 1:04:56
  I was Weasel. I was the guy that hands out all
• 1:04:58
  the newspapers. He doesn't sing in the entire
• 1:05:00
  show. Wow, amazing. So there's opportunities.
• 1:05:02
  There are opportunities, it sounds like. So maybe
• 1:05:04
  I need to look into those opportunities because
• 1:05:06
  I do love the theater. Favorite Disney princess?
• 1:05:10
  Oh, Rapunzel. This is a good one. Favorite Disney
• 1:05:16
  villain? Oh, shoot. Okay, I think it's a tie.
• 1:05:26
  Again, because I have the hunchback. So Frollo's
• 1:05:30
  one, but I also really like Hades. Hades is so
• 1:05:34
  good. I get that one a lot. He's so fun. He is.
• 1:05:38
  And was it James Woods that voices him? Talk
• 1:05:41
  about perfect casting. Like you can get scared
• 1:05:44
  of him at some moments, like when he loses his
• 1:05:45
  temper and all the stuff that he's doing is very
• 1:05:47
  sinister. But he's also like, what, my hair go
• 1:05:49
  out? You know, just there's an aspect of humor
• 1:05:51
  there that you don't really get ever in a Disney
• 1:05:53
  villain. It's totally true. It's totally true.
• 1:05:55
  I love Hades. Favorite Disney park you have visited?
• 1:06:00
  Disneyland. Fair. That's fair. Let me take out
• 1:06:05
  Disneyland from the mix and re -ask the question.
• 1:06:07
  Disneyland itself, you can't. You could do Disney
• 1:06:09
  California Adventure in any other park. Which
• 1:06:11
  one would you prefer? Because there's components
• 1:06:16
  of every one that I like. What makes it hard?
• 1:06:21
  There's one thing that will always win. It's
• 1:06:24
  my favorite thing to do any time I go to California.
• 1:06:26
  So I'm going to say California Adventure solely
• 1:06:29
  because they have World of Color. I absolutely
• 1:06:33
  love World of Color. It's so good. I will get
• 1:06:36
  emotional almost every single time I watch it.
• 1:06:37
  Yeah, it's amazing. So that one wins. I can totally
• 1:06:41
  understand that one. Okay, and then the last
• 1:06:43
  rapid fire we're going to go with is which Disney
• 1:06:45
  park is next on your bucket list? Tokyo. Tokyo,
• 1:06:49
  that's the one. Both Tokyo Disney and Tokyo DisneySea?
• 1:06:53
  Yeah. Okay. Because if you're there, you may
• 1:06:55
  as well do them both. That's the plan. Well,
• 1:06:56
  I mean, if I'm there, I have a tendency to not
• 1:07:00
  do vacations small. So if I'm going to be there,
• 1:07:04
  and I did this before, a couple years ago, my
• 1:07:08
  last job, we had a customer where they almost
• 1:07:12
  went with us. And if they had, I was going to
• 1:07:14
  be their customer success manager. And it was
• 1:07:16
  in Thailand, I believe. And so my manager, who
• 1:07:20
  spoke Thai, was just like, hey, if we get them,
• 1:07:24
  They have said that we have to come out to them
• 1:07:26
  to get them set up with our software. And I was
• 1:07:30
  like, okay. I instantly started checking how
• 1:07:32
  far I would be. And I did the math of, like,
• 1:07:35
  how much tickets were. If I'm going to Tokyo,
• 1:07:37
  I'm doing Shanghai and Hong Kong at the same
• 1:07:39
  time. So it's going to be DisneySea, Tokyo, then
• 1:07:42
  over to Shanghai, then over to Hong Kong. Love
• 1:07:44
  that. Then back to Tokyo and flying home. So
• 1:07:47
  I'll be gone for a couple weeks. That sounds
• 1:07:49
  amazing, right? Like I'm going to have to have
• 1:07:51
  you do my travel plans for me because that sounds
• 1:07:53
  like an ideal trip. We talked before the podcast
• 1:07:55
  about you've got to know the right people to
• 1:07:57
  get the right deals. You do. If I can find the
• 1:07:59
  right deal, I will jump on it. Man, that would
• 1:08:02
  be amazing. This sounds phenomenal. So what we
• 1:08:05
  like to do at the end of every episode is we
• 1:08:07
  like to give three actionable takeaways to our
• 1:08:10
  audience. And so on this topic of improving communication.
• 1:08:14
  What are three actionable takeaways that you
• 1:08:17
  could give? So the first one that came to mind
• 1:08:19
  with this was we've talked a lot about active
• 1:08:23
  listening and being very present in the conversations
• 1:08:27
  that are taking place. One of the things that
• 1:08:30
  I have tried to put into practice is something
• 1:08:34
  I think that anybody can apply to themselves,
• 1:08:37
  whether you're giving the advice and starting
• 1:08:39
  the communication or you're receiving. Take a
• 1:08:42
  breath. before you respond just take a beat inhale
• 1:08:48
  exhale go gives you the opportunity to make sure
• 1:08:51
  you're not responding on pure emotion gets the
• 1:08:55
  opportunity to make sure that you are actually
• 1:08:57
  going to articulate what you're going to say
• 1:08:59
  not with a lot of like ums or you know i don't
• 1:09:01
  really understand what i'm saying so to actually
• 1:09:03
  give what you're saying a bit more credence and
• 1:09:06
  it just allows the conversation to flow a bit
• 1:09:11
  more naturally, and depending on the circumstances,
• 1:09:15
  a bit more professionally. So that's one of the
• 1:09:17
  first ones that I thought of. First one would
• 1:09:20
  be in some conversation this week that maybe
• 1:09:24
  is a little more intense. Yeah. Take a good long
• 1:09:28
  breath before you respond. Or two, if you need
• 1:09:30
  to. There's nothing that says you have to just
• 1:09:32
  respond right away. Love that. What else? The
• 1:09:36
  second one I think would be one that I mentioned
• 1:09:38
  before, and that's being mindful of how you're
• 1:09:40
  being perceived in the conversation. So, you
• 1:09:44
  know, not just being so locked in that you look
• 1:09:48
  like you're, you know, so zoned out or like you're
• 1:09:51
  upset or anything like that. I've gotten that
• 1:09:53
  straight up, gotten that feedback in a meeting
• 1:09:55
  where someone asked, are you okay? I'm like,
• 1:09:58
  yes, this is just my face. Our director actually
• 1:10:02
  chimed in. It's like, yeah, he gets that a lot.
• 1:10:04
  So they know. If you're aware of that, and even
• 1:10:09
  kind of in my circumstance, you make a bit of
• 1:10:11
  a joke and be like, yeah, this is just who he
• 1:10:13
  is. But if you're aware of it, then you can be
• 1:10:16
  more mindful of that in the conversations, especially
• 1:10:18
  if you are running the conversation. Like if
• 1:10:21
  you're in a one -on -one with somebody, if you're
• 1:10:22
  in an interview with somebody, having that mindset.
• 1:10:28
  of like, how am I being perceived? Not from an
• 1:10:30
  ego standpoint, but just like, how is this person
• 1:10:32
  seeing me? And is there anything that I'm doing
• 1:10:34
  or the way that I'm presenting myself that would
• 1:10:35
  make it to where they're not going to listen
• 1:10:36
  to what I have to say? Yeah, so good. Yeah, so
• 1:10:38
  good. Number three. Number three. I kind of bounce
• 1:10:43
  back and forth on some of these. So number three,
• 1:10:46
  I think would be, again, something we've kind
• 1:10:50
  of touched on, but that's the human element.
• 1:10:52
  Make sure it's not, you know, manager and subordinate.
• 1:10:57
  It's having the conversation. It's not director
• 1:11:00
  and manager that's having the conversation. In
• 1:11:01
  some cases, not even like in my role, it's not
• 1:11:04
  a CSM and a customer that's having the conversation.
• 1:11:08
  It's a human to a human. You have to have that
• 1:11:11
  approach. So in the right context, know when
• 1:11:18
  it's okay to remove the business element and
• 1:11:21
  just talk as people. maintaining professionalism.
• 1:11:25
  That's a key thing in all of this, but you have
• 1:11:29
  to have that, you know, find those opportunities.
• 1:11:32
  And that could be something to where it's like,
• 1:11:34
  Hey, if you're struggling with something, it's
• 1:11:34
  like, if you, if you want to listen, you want
• 1:11:36
  me to want to talk, I want me to listen. I'm
• 1:11:38
  happy to do so. One example I had to, to try
• 1:11:43
  to help one of my customers calm down. Cause
• 1:11:45
  he had a lot of frustrations. We would talk about
• 1:11:47
  fantasy football for 10 minutes before every,
• 1:11:49
  every meeting before we got into the actual meat
• 1:11:51
  of what we were discussing. Yeah. And. He was
• 1:11:54
  on cloud nine before we even started talking
• 1:11:57
  about business. So it's just, just take those
• 1:11:59
  opportunities. It humanized him to you and you
• 1:12:03
  to him. A hundred percent. Yeah. So then suddenly
• 1:12:06
  when you have that human to human connection
• 1:12:08
  and both sides see it that way, now you can actually
• 1:12:11
  operate on a different plane. Yeah. Because you're,
• 1:12:14
  you're not only, you're not only viewing them
• 1:12:15
  as a person, but. Ideally, you're building that
• 1:12:18
  connection. You're building a relationship. You're
• 1:12:20
  building rapport. And so now if you have to have
• 1:12:22
  harder conversations with somebody, they're much
• 1:12:25
  more apt to listen. They're much more aware of
• 1:12:27
  what you're saying and that where that is coming
• 1:12:29
  from is a place of understanding, is a place
• 1:12:31
  of respect, and honestly a place of wanting them
• 1:12:34
  to be the most successful they could be, whether
• 1:12:37
  that's a customer you're talking to or an employee
• 1:12:39
  or a coworker, whatever the role might be. Phenomenal.
• 1:12:43
  Phenomenal. BJ, thank you so much for being on
• 1:12:46
  with us today, sharing your wisdom, your love
• 1:12:48
  for Disney, all things inside out. It's been
• 1:12:51
  a pleasure. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
• 1:12:53
  As you leave this conversation, remember that
• 1:12:56
  yes, the past can hurt and you can either run
• 1:12:59
  from it or you can learn from it. So here's to
• 1:13:02
  learning and finding joy in the journey. See
• 1:13:06
  you real soon.