Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Let the North vs. South Battle Begin!

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Let the North vs. South Battle Begin! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Look, I did bring my glasses because it's, it's southern hemisphere versus northern hemisphere.
• 0:09
  There's so many unknowns about this game going into it.
• 0:12
  Ireland is a massive, massive, massive game.
• 0:14
  The biggest game on tour because we want to win a grand slam.
• 0:18
  I think it's going to be very close.
• 0:21
  If we don't do well, both Australia and New Zealand, I'm going to be really vocal about the competitions that we're playing in.
• 0:28
  Listen to you guys talk about the good old days, like listening to my dad chat to his mates at the rugby club.
• 0:35
  You soft modern players would know what it's like back and up three times a week.
• 0:39
  I mean, you guys get rest, you're in ice baths.
• 0:42
  Get a job, Trimby. Get a job, mate.
• 0:49
  I welcome back to rivals in a couple of weeks holiday.
• 0:54
  But, you know, we thought with the big game, all black Swiss Island and Chicago, Trimby, we've got to have you back because, you know, you enjoy that game, don't you?
• 1:03
  I do. I do enjoy that game.
• 1:06
  Even the way you described it, the big game, all black versus Chicago, I wonder if before November 2016, you would have even described it as a big game against Ireland because everything changed that day.
• 1:22
  That was obviously the day that, you know, the first time we ever beat the old blacks and up until that, it was just, you know, who knows, it's very, very likely we're going to get hammered every time we want to pitch, we got beat.
• 1:34
  It was, that was the mindset on our 4B change that day.
• 1:38
  It was like 16th century reformation, French revolution, our reformation.
• 1:45
  It was like 1990, a good Friday agreement when apartheid felt it's one of these big turning points in history and everybody looks back to it that day and we managed to back it up with a number of wins.
• 1:58
  Had we not done that, then it wouldn't have been as significant as it was, but it was the kind of the rival rivalry between Ireland and New Zealand was unrecognizable after that, I'm sure you guys agree from your perspective.
• 2:11
  Yeah, I mean, so what was different that week? What, what, what changed so much? I think we made, we made a few mistakes, selection wise, but I won't take anything away from, from that one to be fair enough.
• 2:25
  That's very good of you. I was going to try and block you coming into the show this morning, but wasn't Ireland that was good? Just few selection errors there.
• 2:34
  Yeah, well, I think we had Drome Kino in the second row, Victor, to be fair. So there's a few things going on, but not taking nothing away from Ireland because I think you're right, it was the turning point, the rivalry did change.
• 2:46
  I mean, it's pretty hostile going to Ireland nowadays, if you're in all black, where it just used to be a good crack back in the day.
• 2:53
  But what changed that week, mate? Tell me what changed?
• 2:56
  Well, Josh Beck got us in a, in a headspace, if you remember three years earlier, we had, we started the game in Dublin and got off to a pretty significant lead.
• 3:08
  And then as the game went on, we let the all blacks into the game more and more. So 2013, it was the first time we'd actually outperformed the all blacks, but we didn't get the game across the line.
• 3:18
  If you remember, I think it was like a period of two and a half, three and a half minutes or something where New Zealand just put us under sustained pressure.
• 3:28
  And we just we just soaked in defense, soak, soak, soak, and then eventually scored in a corner. And it felt like, and then that whatever that time was that became that's how long we have to maintain defensive discipline and defensive structure.
• 3:41
  And it became like I became a big thing about our training. And so not only just like being able to hang in the game for a period of time when you're under pressure, you can see all blacks, but actually be able to change the momentum in the game, the rest look back.
• 3:54
  So first of all, we had the confidence to know that we could perform. We could cope with the all blacks, I suppose is the first step towards getting that win.
• 4:02
  And then having the confidence to know that whenever we need a big momentum changer in a game, we felt like we can contribute that as well. This is all in theory. And we've probably rewritten history in that, in that now that we won again, then we say what was special by that week and you probably read too much into little things.
• 4:20
  But it felt like Jewish make goddess in the position where we could do that. We had confidence that we could do that. I remember half time because we got off to another big start.
• 4:28
  I remember Johnny sexton really best pleading with us begging us, we have to keep playing. You cannot stop playing against the old blacks. If you invite that pressure, it only goes one way.
• 4:38
  But we didn't, we didn't listen to them. And then the start of the second half, they can buy Ben Smith scored. And just we got that onslaught of what we've recognized for years.
• 4:48
  And then what was very significant, Joey Carbigham off the bench for his first test, first test match with this ball out of like we're just outside our 22 put it in his evil hands. He put it behind them.
• 5:02
  I somewhat Murray, I think it was smashed surveyor. I then we scored off that scroll and it felt like we've just changed the momentum in the game, which was just nothing we'd ever really done before. I then finished in the ascendancy.
• 5:15
  So it was, it was a mindset. It was a Schmidt thing, 100% Schmidt did something down shall be and just change our mindset, change our confidence.
• 5:24
  Okay, I've had enough of this conversation.
• 5:26
  You can edit that down if you want.
• 5:29
  What's the game yesterday?
• 5:33
  Yeah, well, I've been telling stories about it for nine years.
• 5:37
  Okay. Yeah, and no one wants to hear it, but this week everyone wants to hear it. I go, well, this is what I'll do.
• 5:45
  What do you reckon?
• 5:48
  Yeah, I think it's going to be a tough game. It's interesting to see the squat that Ireland has selected.
• 5:55
  They've gone with an old tried and tested, and it's actually interesting seeing what's happening in the URC with Lancaster's struggling a little bit.
• 6:05
  Also doing really well.
• 6:07
  Lancaster giving a full lens to Ireland team a big hiding as well. So yeah, it's interesting time in Ireland, but yeah, I think it's going to be tough.
• 6:17
  I think it's going to be very close.
• 6:21
  I'm actually, look, I did bring my glasses because it's.
• 6:27
  It's Southern hemisphere versus Northern hemisphere, but to be honest, I'm not too sure.
• 6:34
  I don't know. I think anyone can win this test on the weekend. I think Ireland's a fantastic team.
• 6:41
  I think New Zealand's on that up, but it's again, like I've said a few times, it's not quite that New Zealand team that we used to.
• 6:48
  It's got all the confidence running on to the field and almost knowing they're going to win. So it's going to be a good taste.
• 6:54
  I would say the same is true for Ireland, though. I think they're Ireland aren't where they had been over the last couple of years.
• 7:00
  So that there's so many unknowns about this game going into it.
• 7:04
  As you say, Victor, Jake, I don't know if you saw that that interpro Lancaster monster.
• 7:09
  It was one for the ages of some believable brilliant brilliant game of rugby, but monster gave them an absolute hiding.
• 7:15
  This is like a team stacked with lions and monster gave them a pasting monster played unbelievably well.
• 7:22
  Jack Crowley put his hand up. He has to start. He doesn't start. It's going to be it's going to be chaos in Ireland from all the all the monster, all the monster internet trolls, which are a little bit like the South African internet trolls.
• 7:34
  Victor, you'll be very very familiar with them. They let their voice be known massively.
• 7:40
  And then someone like Ty burn.
• 7:43
  After lions, if we find out he had a bit of an operation on his elbow, he is the he's the one that kind of puts the bed any.
• 7:52
  Any arguments about the lense or lense or lions are all exhausted. They're tired. They need some.
• 7:56
  They're going to be able to hang over after the lions. Well, Ty burn was unbelievable.
• 8:02
  JK, I say this sensitively and carefully. There's been some comparisons with his performance against lense to Richie McCaw.
• 8:10
  And I'm interested to see what your reaction to that was. It's one of the best macro performances I've seen in a long time.
• 8:17
  Richie McCaw is a huge leap. I'll pause there and hear your response.
• 8:23
  I think the special thing about great players is they have the ability to adapt.
• 8:30
  When you talk about Richie McCaw, you talk about a player that adapted with the times and changed his game.
• 8:39
  It takes a bit like that. I think he's one of those consistent. I mean, the thing I love about loose forwards and Victor will probably have a better opinion about this.
• 8:52
  Mimmy is actually a second row of playing loose forward. That's why it's so good.
• 8:57
  But what does a good second row do and what does a great loose forward do? They have these repetitive ability to perform not only in the game at the highest level but game after game.
• 9:10
  So they're always present. They're always making the right decisions. I mean, when you think about turnovers now, just the decision making to go for it at the right time is special.
• 9:20
  So I just think he's getting better and better and better and better. And he must be getting later on in his career, right?
• 9:27
  Yeah, and he took the scenic route. As you say, he came through the Lancaster school system.
• 9:33
  Didn't get picked up by Lancaster, got dropped by the academy, went across the wheels, played there for a few years.
• 9:39
  And really kind of created a reputation there and monster brought him back. And so it has took a long time and he's in his 30s now.
• 9:47
  Anyway, he's probably 32, 33.
• 9:49
  We're hearing a lot from this very confident Irishman who's very confident of winning long weekend.
• 9:58
  Give us the all black perspective. You know, we're going in. We're humble. You know, well, this confident Irish side is telling us what they're going to do.
• 10:05
  What's going to happen from the all black perspective?
• 10:08
  If you're a civil humble, you wouldn't have to say you're a humble. That is a classic all black approach.
• 10:15
  The inconsistency, not only in the 80 minutes from the all blacks, but just the inconsistency over the last little while is probably a concern for for the coaches.
• 10:25
  I think going away on tours is always a really great thing. So for me, you know, like like Trimby said, Ireland is one of the best teams in the world.
• 10:35
  We are struggling to find the way we want to play. And I think that's reflected in, you know, that we've had another couple of coaching changes.
• 10:44
  So that's two in the last 15 months. So I think the teams not really settled yet.
• 10:50
  Obviously, we want to win the Grand Slam and that, you know, it's revenge for us. The Irish totally humiliated us in Chicago.
• 10:59
  And like Trimby said, that was a turning point for Irish rugby. And I'm, you know, I'm stoked that they're so bloody good because when you go on a northern tour, you've really got to test yourself.
• 11:08
  So it's a massive game for us. Come down for selection. You know, you talk about selection. You talk about our loose forward selection.
• 11:15
  We haven't, we haven't really settled on who is our best three loose forward, right?
• 11:22
  So I think this team has the ability to continue to grow. And I think we've seen some really good stuff out of them.
• 11:28
  But it's that inconsistency I spoke about. So massive tour for us. Ireland is a massive, massive, massive game.
• 11:34
  The biggest game on tour because we want to win a Grand Slam. So.
• 11:39
  And I think you're right, Trimby. This new Irish side. And I don't know, you know, you're saying Victor that sort of selecting a lot of their older players.
• 11:48
  But, you know, what are they doing about who's going to play 10? Who's going to play 10, Trimby? Who's going to, who's going to dominate that position?
• 11:56
  That's been so fundamental for the way you play.
• 12:00
  Yeah, and big shoes to fill obviously after Johnny section retired after the World Cup. Jack Crowley commended a really good job, I thought.
• 12:10
  And then a year later, Andy Farrell handed the reins over to Soundprendergast.
• 12:18
  And he always looked like someone who was, who had a really high ceiling had very, very talented. And he offered him that opportunity.
• 12:26
  Then he could kind of grow into it. And it looked like initially he did grow into it. But there were, there were holes in his game and difficulties and opposition started picking on that.
• 12:36
  A lot of debate online about him and Crowley and what Crowley did. And then Crowley's performances, he responded unbelievably well. So it's been a real journey that, that to be it.
• 12:46
  And then it kind of came to her head and that, that interpro last week. And it feels like Crowley is now in control certainly.
• 12:54
  But for me, I think Victor, I know you kind of think this, there's been a bit of a response in Ireland to Andy Farrell's selection.
• 13:03
  There's no new faces in there. You know, you would have thought this would be a nice time to bring in some new talent, but it feels like he's gone back to tried and tested.
• 13:12
  Especially after an upset like that, you see Lenser introducing some inconsistencies on their performance. Any extension from what we see a Lenser is an extension for what we're going to see with Ireland.
• 13:22
  Obviously, Andy Farrell feels like, well, these are the guys who've done it in the past. I know I can get a tune out of these guys. So I assume that's his mindset. Let's go in with these guys.
• 13:32
  Let's get some momentum. Then you might get some game time for younger guys against Japan against Australia later on in November.
• 13:39
  Well, guys, we've been, we haven't heard from Victor saying how many times they've won the World Cup.
• 13:47
  Do you want to be double World Cup champions? You need to give guys opportunities.
• 13:55
  No, so I think it's actually good what's happening in Ireland. I mean, if you look at the last few years, I think Lenser was just on another level to the other club teams there.
• 14:07
  Months to win performing at the level they want to also were kind of cornered when they and all of a sudden these new players coming through new people pushing for positions.
• 14:17
  So I think for Ireland, it should actually be good. There's a few of these guys that's going to probably the third fourth World Cups now.
• 14:25
  And you need those new guys coming through and I mean, I like that bird. It's just unbelievable.
• 14:31
  I mean, I'm on that committee that selects the play of the year and he's definitely right up there probably with Finn Russell at this stage.
• 14:38
  It's pretty the two guys standing out the most. So, yeah, I think it's good for Irish rugby, but it might be a difficult situation for Feral at Ireland as well because it was almost like an I played in the year where you knew worse than number one choice and all the other guys in the squad knew it.
• 14:58
  Rossi changes the change that you have a spring box where actually no one knows who's going to start on a Saturday.
• 15:06
  You just waiting in the jersey for the weekend and yeah, it's a different mindset. It's working for us, but in some cases for some teams, it's very difficult when you're not sure who's the number one and who's the number two.
• 15:18
  So it can be an interesting time for Ireland as well.
• 15:21
  What's happening? What's happening at Locke in Ireland? Victor?
• 15:25
  Yeah, I think I like Joe McCarthy. I think he's very important for them.
• 15:33
  I won't play Bern in the second row. I think Bern is out and out six. I mean, he's carrying ability. He's beat around the ground.
• 15:43
  When Joe McCarthy is there, I think they're different team as well. So he's really important for them.
• 15:50
  I think he's injured at the moment. You won't be playing on the weekend.
• 15:53
  Yeah, he won't be available. Again, James Ryan, some like Kormack as a two quiz, put his hand up at the start of the season, looking really good for Ulster.
• 16:03
  But picked up a knock there. I don't think he's going to be available. He didn't play those last couple of games for Ulster. Assume he's not going to be available.
• 16:11
  They could go for something like Ian Henderson, who looks kind of rejuvenated a little bit.
• 16:15
  Got a few options there. If it was a case of bringing in someone fresh, a new little bit of something different.
• 16:23
  It would have been Kormack as a Chukwa and he looks like he's not going to be available. So that's a bit of a shame.
• 16:28
  So that's the start of the Southern Hemisphere's takeover of the Northern Hemisphere.
• 16:36
  Victor, you're playing in the Northern Hemisphere, but you're not playing in the Northern Hemisphere team. Playing your team.
• 16:42
  We're up against Japan. I just came back from the week ago, so helped the guys coaching a little bit.
• 16:51
  They did really well. Only lost by four points against Australia and I thought in the last minute that one line break,
• 16:59
  they could just have finished that off. They could have had another big victory.
• 17:05
  I think they'll be competitive for a while. If the forwards can stand up, I think the back of forward especially when it comes to scrum time under Owen Frank.
• 17:16
  I think he's one of the best scrum coaches I've worked with. He's unbelievable and they can probably try and hold their own.
• 17:23
  So if they can hold their own at scrum time, don't just go forward, just stay down and don't give scrum penalties away.
• 17:30
  Then they can push out Africa for a little bit, but I think at the end the power of South Africa will just be too much for them.
• 17:38
  Yeah, then you obviously remember Brighton quite well.
• 17:43
  Do you have to go there? Do we need to go there?
• 17:46
  Also changed World Track B, like Trim Bset 2016.
• 17:51
  Yeah, one of my worst days in my life. Remember after the game, I don't know.
• 17:59
  I wasn't captain John DeVillius, the captain, but Hanukkah sent me out to go speak to the media because I was the most experienced player.
• 18:07
  So yeah, it was pretty tough day for us, but again, it just shows you, if you're not 100% on your game, if you're a bit overconfident, anything can happen.
• 18:18
  I think these days especially with Japan, I think the first 15, 16 or 15, 18 players can really compete with anyone.
• 18:26
  It's just a depth. If they get one or two critical injuries, they lack the depth for other guys to come in.
• 18:33
  But I love working with them. They just want to get better. Eddie is pushing them.
• 18:38
  And I think they will be a team that will be competitive at the next World Cup as well.
• 18:44
  The interesting thing about the Japanese is when I was there, because when I first arrived, the Japanese were trying to play like everybody else.
• 18:56
  And once we sort of said, we actually need to play like Japanese.
• 19:01
  So the Japanese have the fastest feet in the world. So you actually cannot put a big hit on them because they have this very, very fast foot movement.
• 19:10
  Then they can really evade contact. And if they can get into that fast contact space where they can actually move the ball pretty quick, then it gets pretty frustrating for the opposition.
• 19:20
  The other thing I talked about is in the late 70s, the Japanese were actually really like the innovators of World Rugby.
• 19:30
  They did the short line out, the quick drop out. They brought in a whole lot of these things that now we take for granted.
• 19:38
  So I agree with Victor.
• 19:41
  But the foreigners going to Japan has been a really, really positive.
• 19:46
  I think the secret with Japan is trying to find that mix between, you know, your foreign influence and continuing to peak and create Japanese players.
• 19:55
  But on the day, the thing is the thing that they can do is, and I thought we probably saw it with Scotland in the World Cup when they played them.
• 20:04
  It's frustrating trying to play them because it's like chasing shadows at times. I think the physicality, though, of the spring box.
• 20:11
  What Japan will have to do is get position. So I hope their line out coach has been good since he's been over there.
• 20:19
  I'm not a line out coach. I'm just a second voice for you. I'm not the line out coach. There's other line out coach.
• 20:26
  But, you know, again, I know the jake can compete in their seats.
• 20:31
  Seat piece is going to be very important. But the one thing that they also need, and I think they've learned last year, it's overplaying as well.
• 20:40
  I know, I mean, they're talking about Joe Super rugby. They're just quick rugby. They want to play fast rugby.
• 20:45
  I think last year, a few of the games they overplayed, and they played themselves off their feet, fishy in the wrong areas.
• 20:53
  I think they're very good at transition rugby. So just a little bit of gay management, but when they get those opportunities from turnovers at the right time, then they want to spread it.
• 21:04
  And I mean, the way they can spread the ball and take it out wide with options is pretty good. So I think if they get those broken field opportunities, and if the game opens up against South Africa, then I think they can score a few nice trials as well.
• 21:23
  So this is a very important time in rugby in the global calendar, because this is the southern hemisphere versus the northern hemisphere.
• 21:31
  You know, there's going to be lots of games over the next few weeks where we get bragging rights. Now, as you said, Victor, we're together with you as our southern hemisphere brother.
• 21:40
  We're all against you, Trimby. Basically, you are the enemy for the next four or five weeks.
• 21:46
  So how do you see the next four or five weeks going in that battle for superiority between the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere?
• 21:55
  Yeah, I'm really interested to see because it's the lion's test series was kind of existed in isolation.
• 22:04
  And then the lion's fans and lion supporters get to see that in context or get wider context of that once it's really a play.
• 22:13
  South Africa are playing New Zealand and we said, OK, that puts those performances in contact. Same thing when you guys, the rugby championship was unbelievable this year.
• 22:21
  And then we're locking on. So we don't know where we fit into that. That looks like an incredible standard. South Africa is smashing Argentina and really kind of surging towards the end of that competition.
• 22:31
  And it feels like that exists in isolation until there's so many unknowns until everybody comes together for November.
• 22:37
  And then we won't find out. I don't think when South Africa are playing at Japan, but we will find out in Chicago where Ireland fit into that or where the lions.
• 22:46
  Those performances and kind of get some understanding of where that is.
• 22:50
  Victor, I'm interested to see. It's a shame to see him.
• 22:53
  South Africa aren't in London, but I'll be interested to see from your perspective. What is what do you see be in the biggest challenge?
• 22:59
  Is it is it Paris or is it Dublin or would it potentially think England will be stronger?
• 23:04
  Who do you think is going to be the strongest out of the home nations this November?
• 23:08
  Yeah, for me, I think Ireland and England are probably on the same level.
• 23:13
  I think England's are right there with the top teams in the world. I think the biggest tricks for all the teams is France.
• 23:22
  I think they are a little bit of the unknown because a few of their plays were injured. The point was out.
• 23:27
  We don't know who's going to play, but I've said it. I think the next world club as well.
• 23:32
  Probably there were one team that I'm really scared of. So for me, yes, Ireland's going to be a big challenge.
• 23:40
  For South Africa, I think this weekend for the whole Blacks is also going to be a big challenge.
• 23:46
  I think France is a big threat for us. I think that it's growing and I think it's going to be very tough for South Africa to go over there and get a big truth.
• 23:59
  The only thing with France is that there can be such a big change because they're so emotional and their performances are so kind of.
• 24:07
  They're built on a visceral emotional approach to play in rugby and they're just that X factor and talent and they let that talent do the talking.
• 24:16
  It feels like between campaigns, there could be a big difference in what we see in France or it's a big unknown.
• 24:22
  It's a classic cliche. I don't know what you're going to get from France. They either blew your way or they don't turn up.
• 24:27
  I feel like that is way less the extent that the key is now, but it still is there a little bit.
• 24:33
  The first game France play, having not played since New Zealand, but obviously they played a lot of new faces there.
• 24:41
  It wouldn't have been an established French 15 that we saw or 23, we saw. I'm just interested to see. I hope they do because everybody's going to secretly a French rugby fan because we need them going well, but I'd be interested to see it easily they can drop off or they can get to new levels.
• 24:57
  I think Rick, I think they've circled the South African game. I mean, if you look at that previous World Cup, they hated South Africa for kicking them out and that next week in a semi-final, they even supported the English for the first time in history.
• 25:12
  The French supported England, so I think they circled that game and I think whoever is fit to play, World Play against South Africa. So that's going to be a massive grudge match.
• 25:25
  I think the mistake they made in the World Cup against you, Victor was, they did not actually change DuPont, so DuPont had been out for four weeks and he was gassed with 20 to go. They should have brought him off because the second half back would have done a good job and he started to tank and he started to make some poor decisions.
• 25:44
  So I think the French have been, you know, the best side, the best side in the world on their day for a long, long time. I think they will target South Africa and I think it's important.
• 25:56
  So Rick, how do you ask me what we want to get out of the Northern Tour? You know, the Northern Tour.
• 26:01
  Just making B-Sides for Alan.
• 26:04
  B-Sides that hasn't won. Did I not say the best side that hasn't won? Did I not say that?
• 26:09
  Just not sure about the B-Sides.
• 26:12
  Yeah, well, the best side that hasn't won, you know, like when you look at them, when you look at, when you play against them,
• 26:18
  I know you two-time World Jones and Victor, did you want me to say that just to keep you happy for the day?
• 26:23
  They want to, they want to upset your day, man, in case, in case I need to say that you two-time World Champion,
• 26:28
  yeah, this is really annoying me now. I'm going to take a breath. But if you think about their team, if you think about how well they're playing,
• 26:35
  if you think about their competition. So getting back to your question, Ricardo, it's a real yardstick for the Southern Hemisphere.
• 26:42
  If we don't do well, both Australia and New Zealand, I'm going to be really vocal about the competitions that we're playing in.
• 26:49
  When you think about the Irish competition, that's full of very, very good South African players, right?
• 26:56
  When you think about now the URC, which is getting better, you know, I watch the stormers play benefits on the other day,
• 27:03
  you know, the competitions are fundamental for delivering players that can win at the test level.
• 27:09
  It is super rugby, that competition anymore.
• 27:13
  If we can't go over as the Southern Hemisphere, I'm taking South Africa out of it.
• 27:19
  I'm taking the traitors that left the Southern Hemisphere for money in the Northern Hemisphere out of this conversation,
• 27:26
  because the one thing that South Africa now have is they've got this great balance. They can play Southern Hemisphere in the championship,
• 27:32
  but they're playing Northern Hemisphere in the club competition. And it is different rugby, you know?
• 27:38
  And so for me, the end of this tool will be fundamental to see where there are competitions in the Southern Hemisphere,
• 27:44
  are delivering a depth of team that can win Grand Slam. We've got to win the Grand Slam for it to be successful.
• 27:51
  Why are you smiling that?
• 27:53
  I'm just thinking about UQ as a victor, being a traitor, but I mean, you're being equally as much of a traitor next summer.
• 27:59
  You guys, there's Kiwis and South Africans are just chopping the Australians and the Argentinians to go off and do your own thing for money.
• 28:07
  So there's traitor behavior all over the world rugby at the minute.
• 28:10
  It's called legacy. It's called actually going back to go forward. You know, the old tool is meant.
• 28:17
  You know, you're too young to understand what an old tool was like where you used to, you know, play midweek.
• 28:22
  You used to go out and have a few brides when you're over there. Like you play up in Blum Fontaine and get your ass kicked.
• 28:29
  Yeah.
• 28:30
  So it's not about money. It's not about money.
• 28:33
  We need it as well. I'll clap to him. So also want to play against all Blacks.
• 28:37
  I would like you to have had a chat before this and you're briefed each other. Like maybe in the same team.
• 28:42
  The greatest rivalry. It's the greatest rivalry. We want to see it.
• 28:47
  You can go and play England from me. You've just gone pro three games against them.
• 28:50
  I mean, if you want a good rivalry, that's your old rivalry.
• 28:53
  We do. We play them every year.
• 28:55
  We just stick to the traditions, stick to the Six Nations traditions.
• 28:59
  We extended, um, extended it to six to bring in Italy and not me. I mean, I've been a mistake.
• 29:06
  Just talk to me about that, Victor. I mean, obviously JKs first, um,
• 29:11
  JKs first tour. He went on a boat.
• 29:14
  But, um, you know, that's how, you know, that history of that rivalry is just everything.
• 29:19
  So next year's tour, how much is South Africa looking forward to it?
• 29:22
  Because I know everyone in New Zealand is.
• 29:24
  No, it's going to be fantastic.
• 29:26
  Like I said, we've actually been calling for it for a long time to get this old tours going.
• 29:33
  Um, and I mean, for, there's a lot of guys that play in the U. R. C.
• 29:39
  That will never get opportunity to play, uh, taste match, rugby.
• 29:43
  Now they get the opportunities to play against all blacks at Loftus or at LS bar or in Blumfonte.
• 29:49
  So, um, we're really looking forward to it.
• 29:52
  We thought it was only going to be three taste matches now. It's false.
• 29:55
  So, um, what opportunity to beat New Zealand four times in one year? It's going to be fantastic.
• 30:01
  There you go. There you go.
• 30:03
  It's going to be way easier for South Africa because you're at home.
• 30:06
  We're going to have to take it like.
• 30:08
  We're going to be under pressure. We're under pressure the whole time again.
• 30:11
  I'm going to go. I've got to be there because I'm going to love actually beating the two time world champions at there.
• 30:19
  Because I don't know if you remember.
• 30:21
  I wasn't on that tour.
• 30:22
  But the first time that New Zealand malmate Fitsy was one on South African soil.
• 30:27
  That was like unbelievable.
• 30:29
  That'll be us next year. That's what we're going to need to do.
• 30:31
  We've got to go and repeat that Ricardo.
• 30:33
  You're on that tour. When you, I know you went.
• 30:35
  No, I was, I was in home watching on TV like you were.
• 30:38
  But, um, we did 92 tour.
• 30:41
  Very special trip.
• 30:43
  Once again, we played midweek and stuff. So it was, you know, those trimby often.
• 30:48
  I don't know why this annoys me probably because we've got a big ego.
• 30:51
  But when I get introduced as a 63 test all black.
• 30:55
  Um, I actually played 96 games, right?
• 30:59
  And some, when you think about some of those games, when we're on tour.
• 31:04
  South Africa, um, France, Ireland, you know, you imagine being a, uh, uh, an all black.
• 31:11
  And then you're playing midweek against Munster or Lentster.
• 31:14
  It's just like, it's a different world.
• 31:17
  It's a whole different vibe.
• 31:19
  And also it puts a little pressure on the internal team, right?
• 31:23
  So I had to play because I wasn't playing that well.
• 31:26
  Um, you know, in 19, I think it was 1990 and 91, I think in France.
• 31:32
  You know, the coach put me out there on a Wednesday night.
• 31:35
  So I played test match, weren't playing so well.
• 31:37
  The other guy played well on that Wednesday.
• 31:39
  So then you get out there Wednesday and you're playing for your test spot.
• 31:42
  It's just like next level. It's so good.
• 31:45
  And it's hard, you know?
• 31:47
  This is like, listen to you.
• 31:49
  Talk about the, the good old days.
• 31:51
  Like listening to my dad chat to his mates at the rugby club.
• 31:55
  Yeah.
• 31:56
  Yeah.
• 31:57
  Well, it is.
• 31:59
  But you want to wait till we all get together.
• 32:01
  That is horrible.
• 32:02
  You love it.
• 32:03
  You want.
• 32:04
  You soft, you soft modern players would know what it's like backing up three times a week.
• 32:07
  I mean, you guys get rest.
• 32:08
  You're a nice bath.
• 32:09
  I wish to have a few beers and a bag and just get old.
• 32:12
  And you had to go work in the day.
• 32:14
  Go do a hot crawl.
• 32:15
  Everything.
• 32:16
  Yeah, man.
• 32:17
  You want cars for you.
• 32:18
  Get a job, Trimby.
• 32:19
  Get a job, mate.
• 32:20
  You want cars for those midweek games against like monster and teams like us.
• 32:25
  No, no, no, no.
• 32:26
  I just want to add it onto my profile 63 tests that he 30 whatever games it is.
• 32:32
  30 midweek games.
• 32:34
  That's a great lead in JK to the project that you're working on at the moment.
• 32:38
  And Trimby, it sounds like you're going to love this.
• 32:41
  You're capturing the stories of some of the old or blacks because you're worried that some of our legends, you know, some of their stories are being lost.
• 32:51
  Yeah, I think, you know, I was out on Saturday night.
• 32:54
  So I'm really, really passionate about actually our elders telling the story of the legacy, Victor and Trimby.
• 33:03
  It's really, I'm really passionate about it.
• 33:05
  We talk about elders are passing, you know, Sabrina Hors, not with us anymore, Colin Meads.
• 33:11
  And so what I wanted to do is capture the legacy piece in our own words.
• 33:16
  So interview our elders and ask them about when they played, you know, and we laugh about it, Trimby.
• 33:23
  But, you know, I was talking to some young guys on Saturday night and they're really intrigued about how it used to be.
• 33:28
  And I'm really intrigued, you know.
• 33:30
  I spoke to Sabrina Williams, Victor, I don't know if you've seen it.
• 33:35
  And his tour to South Africa in 1972, I think it was 1972.
• 33:40
  Like, I woke up to watch that game and he did a seven yard sidestep in goal.
• 33:47
  But just the touring and just how they used to do things Trimby and how they used to, how they've created this beautiful, this beautiful legacy.
• 33:59
  And all these values that have changed men, you know, like, I wouldn't be the man I wasn't today.
• 34:06
  I am today if I hadn't of become an all black at 19 and the lessons they all gave me on how to be a better person, how to work hard, all those things.
• 34:14
  And I wanted to capture it in our own words.
• 34:17
  There's been a lot of people who talk about, especially the all black legacy in its past.
• 34:24
  And I just wanted to record it's been really humbling for me just sitting with these guys and talking about what the all blacks mean to them.
• 34:33
  It's pretty cool.
• 34:35
  But what I've heard today, Ireland's legacy, I only started in 2016 for that wasn't much going on there.
• 34:44
  Trimby, you can interview yourself.
• 34:50
  Yeah, there wasn't much going on before that.
• 34:52
  And it is, it's crazy high.
• 34:55
  New Zealand South Africa, it's always been back and forth. It's always been a brilliant rivalry.
• 34:59
  So you've always got, you always remember there's good times and you can always lean on that whenever there's a difficult period.
• 35:06
  But yeah, to kind of break that down is difficult and it took us like a hundred years or something to eventually get that across the line.
• 35:15
  And I mean, I'd love to know what the aggregate score was over a hundred years of test matches against New Zealand for us.
• 35:22
  It wouldn't be pretty at all.
• 35:25
  But yeah, it made it worthwhile.
• 35:27
  The way it made it worth the wait.
• 35:29
  I guess you know what you got to do now is win a World Cup.
• 35:32
  You can't go from, you can't go from beat New Zealand for the first time in a hundred years.
• 35:37
  It's been winning your World Cup.
• 35:39
  That's a two-cooking assembly.
• 35:41
  Trimby, to be honest with you mate, when I played, like I played, you know, sort of five years before the World Cup.
• 35:49
  Before the World Cup, you know the Grand Slam was how you measured yourself.
• 35:53
  Going to South Africa was how you measured yourself.
• 35:56
  Now it is the World Cup.
• 35:58
  Like the Grand Slam, like my dream growing up was to go on a Grand Slam because you stayed away for three and a half months.
• 36:05
  And you played all the home nations, right?
• 36:08
  That doesn't happen anymore.
• 36:09
  They're doing it in three and a half weeks, you know, four weeks.
• 36:12
  So unfortunately or fortunately, and that's why I really liked next year with South Africa.
• 36:16
  Because the World Cup is now this pinnacle where there were so many other pinnacles, right?
• 36:22
  Everyone stays to the World Cup.
• 36:24
  So I'm really excited that, you know, and I like that.
• 36:28
  I like that Island or France come down and play three test matches in New Zealand rather than, you know,
• 36:34
  rather than just two and go.
• 36:36
  So I want to get those things outside the World Cup going, you know.
• 36:42
  Yeah, that's how you establish those rivalries, isn't it?
• 36:44
  You have those big moments with those big players and those big memories.
• 36:48
  And then all of the stuff off the pitch.
• 36:51
  And the longer, like if you spend that kind of a month established yourself in New Zealand.
• 36:55
  And we've only done that for World Cup really.
• 36:58
  For New Zealand 2011 was my experience of that.
• 37:02
  And you're just immersed.
• 37:04
  You're immersed in the culture, you're immersed in meeting people, understanding what makes New Zealand rugby tick.
• 37:10
  And then obviously that World Cup in 2011, we beat Australia.
• 37:14
  So we became very popular in New Zealand.
• 37:16
  But again, it's just about kind of being established there and understanding what it means as a rugby country,
• 37:22
  especially with a rich history like New Zealand has.
• 37:26
  Yeah, I get that. I get that.
• 37:28
  It's just a shame that Australia and Argentina are just kind of clicking their heels next summer.
• 37:33
  Well, we'll see how much you care about the game next week.
• 37:36
  After we see what happens in Chicago.
• 37:39
  So one of you on this panel is going to be happy.
• 37:43
  One of you is going to be a little bit down.
• 37:47
  And one of you is going to be asked a lot of questions about Japanese lineouts.
• 37:51
  So we'll see you next week on Rivals.
• 37:56
  Thank you.