Latest / Divorce Coaches Academy / Beyond the Legal Process: Heroic Divorce as a Holistic Framework for Transformation- Susan Filan
Transcript
- Tracy Callahan: Thank you for listening to the Divorce Coaches Academy podcast. For more insights and training, visit divorcecoachesacademy.com. Welcome to Divorce Coaches Academy podcast, where we explore the role of divorce coaching in conflict resolution, decision making, and navigating divorce with clarity and intention. Tracy: Welcome back to Divorce Coaches Academy. I am Tracy, and one of the things we emphasize over here at DCA is that divorce is not simply a legal process. It's a conflict process, a decision-making process, and a deeply human transition, all happening at the same time. People going through divorce are not just trying to get legally divorced. They're trying to make life-altering decisions while their nervous system is activated. Their identity may feel destabilized, their family structure is changing, and the conflict patterns that exist inside the relationship often continue to show up in the divorce process itself. Because when people are overwhelmed, afraid, angry, emotionally flooded, They often make decisions from reactivity rather than clarity. They may over-engage in conflict, avoid necessary decisions, escalate communication, give away too much just to be done, or spend an enormous amount of time and money fighting about issues that may not actually move them closer to resolution. This is where conflict-informed divorce coaching becomes so important. The role of the divorce coach is not to replace the attorney, the therapist, the mediator, or the financial professional. It's to help the client build the capacity to show up differently within the conflict they're already in. That means helping clients slow down, organize their thinking, understand their patterns, prepare for professional meetings, communicate more intentionally, and make decisions that are aligned with their values, their children, their finances, and the life they're trying to create on the other side. So, when we talk about divorce coaching, we're not just talking about support. We're talking about helping clients become better decision makers, better consumers of legal and financial services, and more grounded participants in their own divorce process. And today's guest brings a powerful lens to that conversation. Susan Feylin is an attorney with more than 30 years of legal experience, having served as a prosecutor, criminal defense attorney, family lawyer, and legal analyst. And we are proud to say that she is also a DCA certified ADR divorce coach and the founder of Heroic Divorce. Several years ago, Susan survived a devastating accident after being struck by a car while crossing the street. She's spoken openly about how that experience fundamentally changed not only her perspective on life, but her understanding of purpose. She has said something that has stayed with me ever since I first heard it. The person who left my body was not the same one who returned. Rather than returning to the courtroom in the same way, way Susan found herself asking a question that many people navigating divorce eventually ask themselves, who am I now? So today she helps clients answer that question while also helping them move from fear and overwhelm and reactive conflict towards clarity, strategy, and ownership of the life they are creating now. Susan, welcome to the DCA podcast. I'm so happy to have you. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Thank you, Tracy, and I so appreciate your discussion about divorce coaching and listening to you. I would choose it all over again. It's so beautifully said and the work you do is so vital and important. You're really you're really the tip of the arrow in this new new way forward. Tracy: Thank you. Thank you. And it's like people like you who are along for this ride through the sky. So I am happy to have you. You know, I I really would love to begin with your own story, right? You have shared publicly that after your accident you realized the person who survived wasn't the same person who had been hit by the car. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Thank you. Tracy: Do you think I know I'm sure painful, but I I know in your process you've spoken a lot about this and written about this. Can you take us back to that sort of moment and talk about how it changed not only your life, but the work that you wanted to do? Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Sure. Well, it was a beautiful June day, and it was my youngest child's 21st birthday. And we were in downtown Westport, Connecticut, and we were just deciding where to go to lunch. And we were at a crosswalk and we pushed the button and cars waved us across and I looked both ways and we were good to go. And I stepped into the crosswalk and I heard this sickening thump. And then I heard a thud and I did not know that it was me because I never saw it hit me. I never saw the car coming. And I was thrown onto its hood and windshield and thrown off in the back of my head at the street hard as I went down. And the next thing I knew from having stepped into the crosswalk, next thing I knew, I was lying in the street. And then I was hovering above my body, looking down at myself, lying there in the street. And I thought, ⁓ I'm dead. And then I thought, wait, am I dead? And then I was back in my body, lickety split, and I heard an EMT say, ⁓ it's not a fatality. And I thought that maybe I had just tripped and maybe I was embarrassed. I had no idea what was in store for me, that I was gonna have five surgeries in the coming year, that I would need to learn to walk again, that I would literally be in a wheelchair. And then it would take another year after that year to learn to walk, to learn to walk without a limp. And what I learned through that experience is that I felt like I was a nobody and a nothing without my career to define me. When I was lying in that hospital bed, unable to do anything for myself, and the nurses would come, they had no idea who I am as a career person. I had no idea what I had accomplished in my life, and it didn't matter. I was a body in a bed like everybody else on that floor, ringing our bell, waiting for the nurse if we had to go to the bathroom. I mean, I couldn't get up to go to the bathroom, but I needed help in the bed. And I and I realized without all that external validation, I don't think I'm enough. And that's what really set me on the journey of reinvention and a new identity. And it turned out not to be a new identity. Turned out I found my original self because I had abandoned myself along the way on this quest for success, which turned out to be pretty lonely, pretty hard, and pretty miserable. And had I died that day, I would have missed the meaning of life entirely. Because I thought it was about being successful from external validation. I thought it was about being busy, but I didn't realize that it was about really loving my life and enjoying my life and Tracy: Mm-hmm. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Feeling like I'm fulfilling my purpose on here. And part of what put me on that quest is I should have died that day by all rights. But I didn't. So why am I still here? You know, we don't get to take up empty space on this planet. We have to be serving our purpose. And so I realized that this was my reinvention so that I could really fulfill my destiny. And that is to help people through their darkest times, their toughest times. their worst times so that they can build lives that they love, live the way they want. That that's what I had to learn as I went through mine. Tracy: Yeah, I can't, I mean, one thing I'm I'm so happy that you survived because I got to meet you. But I think there's something so interesting about this, right? How we define ourselves, identity. And we talk a lot about identity and divorce, right? The things that we define ourselves by and what happens when those are sort of ripped apart, right? That question of who am I? The question so many people ask of themselves during divorce. Yeah. So you were kind of talking about this place of purpose and identity and having the second chance and supposed to be able to do with it. We can look at divorce like that often too, right? Although some people look at divorce as this devastatingly difficult experience and and it is. It also is an opportunity. But but in that, there is often an identity crisis. How do you think divorce? divorce, you know, in looking at sort of this this evaluation of your life and now those clients going through a divorce, what where do you see the how do you see those parallels, if you will? Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Well, I've been through my own divorce as well. So I do, you know, eat at the kitchen in which I also cook. But I think that when we use all these external markers to create our identity, like a marriage, like a relationship, like what we perceive as our place in the community because of our marital status or our family status, I think we're missing the opportunity to really connect. With who we truly are and who we deeply are. And what I had to learn is that any external markers of our identity are false markers. Anything can be lost at any time. It's the internal identity markers, it's the values. What do I want to be? How do I want to make others feel? What's the legacy that I want to leave in terms of what what's the way that I made people feel in this life? What did I do? Those are the identity markers. And so I feel like when people are going through divorce, if they can shift from the external identity markers to the internal identity markers, what are my values? Maybe I want to be a really good person. How do I define that? Maybe it's generous, maybe it's kind, maybe it's patient, maybe it's a good listener, maybe it's somebody who would help in a pinch. But when we identify with the qualities of ourself, Our essence, then when external changes take place, divorce, loss, loss of job, career, parent, child, we're not as blown about by them as we would be otherwise. And I like to think of the ocean because at the top of the ocean is the chop, it's the waves, it's the white caps. At the bottom of the ocean is this deep stillness, no matter what's going on. At the top, and I like to think of ourselves the same way. Our extremity through our external circumstances or our situations, the external validations is the white cap. It's the chop at the top. But our identity, the deep self that we find in the stillness is who we are, and that's how we are at the bottom of the ocean or the bottom of ourselves. Tracy: Yeah, I love that analogy. I am a water girl, live on the ocean, will always choose to live on the ocean. I will never see myself landlocked. and and yeah, you know, when there's that chaos of waves pushing and pulling, when you swim the ocean, we dive below those waves to go to that calm. So so much of that identity, right? We can find it, it exists. It's sometimes just having to dive for it, if you will. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: That's it. And we draw on our strength through divorce. Often we're drawing on our emotions and we're reacting and we're having to make very dis difficult decisions at the absolute worst time when our nervous system is completely offline. But if we can learn to still ourselves and to find that strength within us and to draw on that, we not only come through the divorce better, but we become who we truly are on the other side of it. I like to think that you used the word opportunity. I I I called my my business heroic divorce because we move from victim to hero in our own divorce and in our own lives. We're writing the story. We're the ones with the pen. Tracy: So I and I I can't wait to talk about heroic divorce, but just kind of being able to kind of stay with some of this idea, right? You are an attorney and and there is this legal component of divorce. We talk about it all the time. If you want to get divorced, you have to go through the legal process of getting divorced, right? And ⁓ attorneys and mediators and a lot of people in this space, right, we focus on these agreements and court processes and legal outcomes. Yet, yet you have built your work around something much larger, bigger than that legal case. So we were just talking a little bit about it. You refer to it as approaching divorce holistically. So what is that, what does that look like for you? Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Yeah, I I I was a family lawyer for many years. And what I say to clients now is I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. I hand your lawyer handles your case, I handle you. And so there's a giant gap in the legal system between what's happening in your case in court and what's happening to you in your life. And that's the gap that I fill. So my holistic approach is Tracy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: It's not just what do you want as the outcome in your case? What do you want as the outcome in your life? How do you want to live? How do you want to feel? What do you want to experience? What do you want for your family, your extended family, your children, your ex? And I think those considerations are very, very important because I've had many clients come to me and say, you know, I have this decision to make. My lawyer says I should do this for the case. But it's terrible for their life. For example, one person came to me and said, My lawyer said I should get evicted because it'll help me with support. But eviction will ruin her credit. She'll have a very difficult time getting rented r ⁓ rented to, and it's a traumatic experience. So Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's the same thing when people say, you know, ⁓ I'm told I have to stay in the house because I can't leave the house. Yet the conflict inside that house is so damaging to them personally, emotionally, to the relationship, to the relationship with their children. Yeah. So it's yeah. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Or don't get a job, don't work, which stunts their growth and their creativity and infantilizes them and keeps them dependent. So I don't say either way, you must not get evicted or you must get evicted. I say let's talk about the effect on you, your esteem, your worth, and in your life. Do you want to experience that? Tracy: Yeah, I think that is i i right because we don't tell clients what to do. Again, the the difference between our role and and an attorney's role in that process and advisement, but being able to guide people in that thinking process of how is that decision going to impact them and and what do they want, right? I think we lose sight of the desired outcome, right? Which for a lot of people is a different perspective. So this lens, this whole Lens is not just the outcome and the legal process, but outcome and how those decisions impact everything else personally, relationship-wise, and where they see themselves. So let's let's talk a lot about heroic divorce. I I love the name, right? So you you just talked a little bit about sort of moving from victim to hero, but what is what is heroic mean to you in the context? context of the work that you're doing and heroic divorce. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Heroic means you move from feeling like a victim where you're powerless and you're stuck and you're trapped and it's being done to you and you don't have any choices to becoming the hero in your divorce and in your life where you have choices. You are making decisions. Maybe you aren't in charge of all the cards that you're dealt, but you are playing your best hand. And I think it's very, very important. For people in a pr possibly traumatic situation, certainly a highly emotional situation, to remember that they have a choice. Everything is a choice. Tracy: Yeah, yeah. And that choice, you know, we we like to talk about it sometimes. The bo bo buffet. I don't know if you remember when we used to talk about it, but sometimes the best of bad options, there's still choice, right? Even if some of those options may not be exactly the ideal of what I want to, they can be stepping stones, even though they may not be that perfect place, right? There's choice in option. And I think that's empowering because when again things are happening to me that victim mentality moving to that heroic place is engaging in choice and option and getting to to see what that looks like for you but I think sometimes that language can feel uncomfortable for people. ⁓ Susan F. Filan, Esq.: ⁓ this isn't easy territory. You know, this this is for warriors. This is tough stuff. And I think Tracy: Warrior yes. Being that this is for warriors. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: And I think the other piece of it, and this is you know, tough gets tougher. What's my part in it? Is this just happening to me? Do I have a part in what's happening? Do I have a role in it? And I think what's empowering about that is when I realize what my part in it is, I can change that. I'm no longer responsible for an outcome that I don't want when I take hold of the behavior that's in part co creating it. And I've Had remarkable shifts and incredible results when people start to take ownership of their partner. Tracy: Yes, yes, ownership and it it is right when we talk about you know, conflict dynamics also and these two parties engaging in these conflict dynamics and the role each of us play in that. And that there there is power to be able to recognize that the dance that I'm doing may not be serving me right now. And and what can I do to change the dynamics of that engagement? And there's something exciting about that, even though a lot of people it is hard and it is not for the faint of heart. It is requires Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Exactly. Exactly. Tracy: warrior mentality but we can be heroes in that our role right of wanting to do it differently so you know many many listeners we have a a big professional community ⁓ of of dispute resolution professionals as well as other divorce professionals as well as some people who are sort of browsing around the field of divorce coaching for those of you the for those of those Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Right. Tracy: individu for those individuals who may be considering adding divorce coaching ⁓ you practice law now you're coaching how would you describe that unique value that now engaging in the process of divorce coaching has has done for you professionally as well as for clients Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Well, the first thing I'd say is if you're considering divorce coaching, you have to take your training with Divorce Coaches Academy. And I would say you must get trained. I would say that there's you know, it's the Wild West right now and there aren't a lot of standards or ethics and it's problematic because it it's a very it's a very important space that you're entering. So please get trained and please get trained by Divorce Coaches Academy. And I say that because I mean I have a lot Tracy: Yeah. Thank you. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Of credentials. I have a bachelor's, a master's, a jurisdoctorate, an LLM. I I care about where my credentials come from, and I care about having credentials. And I think Divorce Coaches Academy is the highest training that you can get in this field. They are excellent, they care about ethics, and they're really they're at the frontier of the of this field, and they're recognized by the American Bar Association, which is also important. So what I would say about coaching for me, and this is just for me personally. And to all the lawyers out there, we need you doing that yeoman's work. But for me, my heart is a lot bigger than just lawyering. When I lawyered, I had to shut ventricles off in my heart because I couldn't feel that way. I had to eye on, you know, eye on the prize. What was the outcome of the case? What's the argument that I needed to make? What are the facts and what's the evidence that I can put into that argument? I really didn't feel that I could envelop the client with. all that I have to give. And I really, really at this point and this phase and this stage of my life, everything I do now, having almost died and really could have been my last day, I do for love. I divorce coach from my whole heart. I care. I want the best for you. I I you know and there's that saying do you fish for someone or do you teach them to fish? In divorce coaching, I teach you to fish. I I don't want to do it for you. I want to show you how to do it for yourself. So when you come out, you're empowered. You're who you want to be. You're in the life you want to live. You're h able to hold your head high. You're not going to have the shame of poor decisions made in the heat of rage or fury or anger or fear. That doesn't serve anyone well. And so for me at this phase and stage in my life, I need to do it with my whole heart. And I don't want the limitations in the ⁓ of the profession, which are there for a reason I believe in them. But I feel I've outgrown them and I'm larger than that now. Tracy: Yeah, and and ⁓ what I love about that, Susan, is there's there is space there, right? There is space to take the experience you have and transform that to be able to support in doing work that resonates with you, but also is extremely needed. Right. We've been doing this kind of thing in divorce for some time and it's evolutionary. Consumers are changing, the the experience is changing. What we know now about divorce and the impact of divorce and how to be able to do it well and who can support you in doing it well has also evolved. And and I want to thank you so much for everything you said about divorce coaching and the work that we do at Divorce Coaches Academy. But it is the Wild West, but we're really, really trying to reel it in and gain the credibility because we are one of the only professions in this space that does this. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Yes. Tracy: That supports individuals not just ⁓ emotionally support them but really helps them dive into that, dive below those waves, get away, look at the discovery, be grounded in the values, develop capacity and skills in conflict engagement, being able to identify what is my role, how do I want this to be different, and what am I going to do to be able to do that? So I I I really want to applaud you and and and use as an example that the field is changing, meaning the experience of divorce, divorce professionals, we're sort of adapting. We've seen the movement of dispute resolution moving through our country, moving worldwide. What we're not seeing is is support ⁓ for those individuals and developing the capacity to reach those agreements in the most ample. And and that is a different experience. That's individual work. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Right. And you know, the saying hurt people, hurt people, it doesn't have to be that way. You know, with the right kind of support and the right kind of guidance, you don't you know we can really break the chain so that spouses aren't hurting each other and aren't hurting children and aren't hurting extended family, and then we're just ⁓ we're exponentially creating more conflict in the world. This is really the path of peace. And I find that people that I've worked with find great joy on the other side of divorce. Because they've embraced the paths, path of peace and not the path of greater and greater conflict. They've also saved thousands and thousands of dollars. In Connecticut, where I am, a custody battle can cost millions. Divorce costs hundreds of thousands of dollars each through this process. That that you know, that just doesn't have to be. And what would you rather do with that money? Would you rather save it? Would you rather put your kid through college? Would you rather get a car? Would you rather go to Europe? You have choices. Tracy: Yeah. You have choices and and what is the cost, right? We talk about this, the cost of conflict, right? It's not just those direct costs, which as you just shared, are huge and significant. But there's also cost to those relationships, cost to your role as as a parent, cost as a role ⁓ of ⁓ an employee or employer you're just not showing up it takes so much and then the emotional toll so so ⁓ you kind of just ⁓ address it a little but I really just want to kind of bring this home as we come and wrap up our work right you're doing the your your have a framework heroic divorce which I absolutely love what what is your hope that somebody is ⁓ leaving in the work that after being with you and not just legally but this this thing what are what are what do you want clients to experience differently when they're engaging with you and and this heroic divorce framework how are they leaving that process Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Joy. My clients leave filled with joy, excitement, a new lease on life. They pinch themselves. They can't believe that this is their life now. They come in so full of fear and anger and hurt. And it's really hard to believe that out of that detritus there is going to be a new life. But there but there is. Is a rebirth at the end. There is a joy. And sure, divorce is a death. It's a death of a relationship, a death of a marriage, a death of a family, and a death of a dream. But out of death comes rebirth, and out of rebirth comes new growth. And it's that new growth that clients find so thrilling and so exciting and so empowering. And it expands exponentially. Tracy: Yes, yes. And and you were a absolute model of that for your clients and that transformation process and everything that you went through. So Susan, I can't thank you enough for being here. As we talked about for so many people, divorce becomes an invitation. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Yes. ⁓ Tracy: to rediscover who we are, what matters most, right? And and and that transformation isn't automatic. It doesn't just have it does. You have to be a warrior, right? A warrior spirit with the right support. It it absolutely, yeah. I was just gonna say, with the right support, with the right guide. It is absolutely possible. And and your story demonstrates that profound change often begins with one difficult question. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Yes, yes. No, it worked. And the right guide. Tracy: Right? Who am I? Who am I now? And the work through Heroic Divorce Offers Clients, that framework for answering that question with intention, courage, and hope. So I want to thank you so much for sharing your personal journey and the philosophy behind your work. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Yes. Thank you. Tracy: I know our listeners will take away ideas that can apply not only in their own professional practice but in their own lives. And for those listening, if you'd like to learn more about Susan and heroic divorce and the work she's doing, you'll find links in today's show notes. So please check her out. She's also done some beautiful articles that ⁓ really, really moved me in some of that story. ⁓ and if today's conversation has moved you and you're thinking about ⁓ divorce coaching. Role can play, you can play in helping clients through conflict and transition. I invite you to check out Divorce Coaches Academy. We have our new ⁓ US and Canada course that's going to be starting at the end of August on August 23rd. ⁓ so if it's something that you think you might be interested in, you could also check us out, divorcecoachesacademy.com, and I'll also put a link to the application ⁓ in the show notes. So As always, I want to thank everybody for listening and joining us. I hope you are enjoying your week. This is a holiday week, so ⁓ everybody be safe. And Susan again, I hope you will join us soon. It was too long for me to see your face, and I'm so glad to have had this time together with you. Susan F. Filan, Esq.: Thank you, Tracy. And thank you for the incredible work that you're doing and Divorce Coaches Academy is doing. Tracy: Thank you.