Latest / The Ask Mike Reinold Show / The Truth About BPC 157 Peptide in Sports Medicine: What You Need to Know - #AMR389

Transcript

The Truth About BPC 157 Peptide in Sports Medicine: What You Need to Know - #AMR389 · The Ask Mike Reinold Show

• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: On this episode of the Ask Mike Rhinald Show, we talk about BPC 157 in a recent journal article systematic review that came out, talking everything that you need to know or what we currently know about this peptide.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: The Ask Mike Rhinald Show.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Helping people feel better, move better, perform better.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get to the podcast, I wanted to make sure you knew about my free online course on the introduction to performance therapy and training.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to learn how to get started optimizing and enhancing performance, this is the course for you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Head to microna.com slash performance to sign up today.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back everybody.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Latest episode of the Ask Mike Reynolds Show.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: We're here up in Boston Champion PT Performance, answering your questions on some episodes and reviewing journal articles like we're doing on this one.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: So what do we have?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Douesh Podell, Anthony Vedetto, Brendan Gates, Lenny McCrina, Dave Tilley here with a new article to review, which I think is going to be hot.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, when you start seeing topics in like men's health and then like self magazine and like Apple News is sending me like updates on these things on the wolverine peptide, is that what they're calling this thing?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you start seeing it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: But we're we're looking at a uh new systematic review on the emerging use of BPC 157 in orthopedic sports medicine.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think as a sports medicine person, if you haven't yet been getting questions from people about peptides and BPC 157 in general, you're probably going to because they are hot right now in the influencer world, they're hot online, uh, that sort of thing.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, gosh, I think we we we might have just recently, in the last hours from recording this episode, have some updates to the USA uh FDA regulations on peptides that you know gonna be in the future.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we're gonna see this more.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: But Lenny, for the review, what do you got?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us about this article on BPC 157.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I will definitely uh it's it's been a hot topic in my in my practice.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it was good to read this article and it kind of reinforced what I've been saying, which is we don't know.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um this article came out of the Hospital for Special Surgery Journal.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's um titled Emerging Use of a BP of BPC 157 in Orthopedic Sports Medicine, a systematic review.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: I happened to stumble upon this um by Dan Lorenz on Twitter.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Again, him and I are the last two PTs talking on Twitter if you watched that episode a week or two ago that we talked about this.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um this was by Vassaretti et al.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a bunch of different authors.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: They just looked at it's a systematic review.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they just pulled all the papers that they could find um up until 2024, and they specifically said that this is very scoping.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is about everything that they could find in all the studies that they they they found uh what 544 studies, they narrowed it down to 36 total studies.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: 35 are preclinical, and one is on a human trial.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it was very limited in human research.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we got a lot of rats and dogs were utilized for these studies.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just a side note, BPC 157 stands for body protection compound.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: No idea that that's how simply what BPC stands for.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: The 15 of the 157 is because it's a pentadeca peptide.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's 15 amino acids, and the seven just kind of delineated from the other 15 amino acid compounds that are out there.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought that was a little interesting thing that I learned.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know if that was in this article.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just my own um my own, you know, Googling.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um but they wanted to look at the uh evaluate the mechanism, effects, and clinical revalence of BPC-157 in orthopedic and sports medicine, which is what we do and most of the listeners are doing as well.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you get these questions, what is the research telling us?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: The key findings um that um of the 36 studies was the mechanism of action is uh angiogenesis, so blood flow, creating new blood flow to an area, collagen synthesis, uh, anti-inflammatory effects, and neuroprotection.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, you have a nerve issue, uh the there's been some studies in in animals that have shown that the nerve can regenerate faster.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh improved tendon health, you got, or ligament health.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: You get some studies that were done on rats that um you know uh injured their MCL and they healed faster, they got stronger faster than the group that did not have BPC 157 uh utilized.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it reduces fibrosis in muscles and enhanced bony hailing and as I mentioned, nerve regeneration as well.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously, there's major limitations to this.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's very few, if not only one human trial uh that was uh a retrospective study looking at um you know knee pain, and they injected people with BPC-157, and they looked at their knee uh subjective pain and pain decreased in those that had BPC 157 more so than the people that did not have the injection.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's only one phase one trial that's registered right now, and it's been registered since 2016, um, and nothing has been updated on that registration.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that tells you something as well.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um again, evidence is primarily animal-based, it's not FDA approved.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's often sourced from unregulated suppliers.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you may think you're injecting yourself with BPC-157, and it probably is somewhat that, but you also could be getting other stuff.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: So be careful what you're getting.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we did have somebody that we know personally that uh thought he was improving his healing and inject injected himself with BPC 157, and he failed uh uh a drug test for a pro baseball and got suspended for 81 games.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So be careful.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's what that's what that's what they always say.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: They always say it's banned by water.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the the it's banned by water.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, contamination, dosing inconsistencies, unknown long-term effects have all been mentioned in this paper.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, in conclusion, there's promising biological uh effects.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: There is something out there.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's insufficient human evidence.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, are we recommending it as sports medicine practitioners?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: I am personally not.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not telling people to go get it.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I say, you know, do your research and talk to your doctor, whoever else is gonna do this, and and personally decide if this is for you.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I am not personally recommending it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I will say, Mike, that you did talk about earlier that it was um it's in men's health and all that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Usually, or oftentimes, not usually, oftentimes the fitness bros um are promoting this earlier than what we know in in normal life, meaning uh creatine is was utilized for decades and now it's re it's accepted uh in the general population and and very well studied and very safe, we think, and actually promoted for anybody and everybody, including helper with neurocognitive type stuff, uh mental abilities and older people.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe we get there someday uh with BPC 157, but right now I don't think it's ready for prime time.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we need a ton more studies in humans, uh quality studies.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my that's my take on this paper.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I like this paper.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was good for us sports medicine people to see what's out there and kind of summarize those 36 articles.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what they do.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of hit a bunch of articles and give you an update on what what that what they found.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: But very general, very vague.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I like to think of myself as an early adopter, right?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like if like Apple comes out with like a new product, like I want to buy it first, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: But like when with this, like I I I tend to like take a little step back.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of people are trying this, a lot of people are doing this.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: And gosh, the placebo effect is definitely part of it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: But it it's also real.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: I also know people that were taking like oral versions of this.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that science has shown that that's completely useless, right?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't get out of your gut.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: It actually might be good for your gut, but it's not good for your patellar tendinopathy.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, then a lot of those people say, like, no, I feel a lot better, right?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, they were taking it for two months, and maybe just over the two months of rehab and stuff, they got better.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I it's short-sighted to say, like, this isn't exciting, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're all excited about the benefits of these things in the future, but like, gosh, I mean, there's just like, you know, there's there's just the the concept of the fact that you don't even know what you're buying and you're just getting this from a compound pharmacy with no regulation and no oversight.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that's the scariest thing because you're injecting this into your body.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a pill.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, you know what I mean?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're injecting this in your body.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the biggest thing for me.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget, too, pro athletes, college athletes, this is banned.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just like not FDA approved, this is banned, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: So this isn't even a conversation you can be having with most of your athletes that are that are coming into this.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So um, that being said, I don't know.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Anyone have any tales, any anecdotals, any thoughts, or just even like where they want to see this go?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how how can we look what can we do in our profession to get better at this?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Dave, what do you think?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think with all these new modalities, I mean, this happened like with dry needling and then like BFR too kind of had its thing.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is like it starts to get really popular and you hear a lot of buzz around like the mechanistic studies.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But like at the end of the day, the first thing that we have to take care of is safety, right?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is like what are the adverse effects?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it safe?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was I was kind of laughing to myself when it says in the safety profile, three studies assess the safety profile.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: All three studies assess s several organ-specific outcomes measures in animal and in vitro models and reported no acute toxicity across several organ systems.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, awesome.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good, my liver, I'm happy my liver's not gonna fail.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: But like, what about the safety and like the efficacy around like the orthopedic side of like what we're injecting, the sites, the tissues, all at least in?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just think like that is always in my mind of like, is this safe for someone to do?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And is this gonna have any long-term effects?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And to Lenny's point, there's one study on in like PFJ, right?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like seven of 12 patients reported subjective improvement in six months.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a lot of other things can be going on why somebody has subjective improvement in six months, you know?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe they just stopped doing what hurt them because it hurt and they got better.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think I remember needling this was a big thing is because I took that course really early and I remember talking about like uh with Sue, actually Sue Falsoin, about like, what are all like the other important safety factors I have to think about before I even suggest this to somebody as an option?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, we work a lot of surgeons, we work like a lot of really important people and say someone's not competing, but like if something goes wrong and you're like comes back that you recommended or you were like, yeah, try these like injectable peptides that are not FDA regulated and like something goes wrong with the the surgery or like the whatever they have, I just don't want that heat on my, you know, there's so many other things we know that are really good evidence-based things that I want to go with first before we start poking ourselves.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, totally agree with that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say the good part though, correct me if I'm wrong, is there's no safety reasons that have uh uh, you know, it can the safety issues are still the unknown versus so far the safety looks to be good, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: So so at least it's positive with that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's that's like a good part.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I you know to your point, Dave, I see this as something else where like there's actually people that are experts in this and and experts at testing the body for this and maybe even monitoring your reactions and stuff.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this becomes medical to me, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I think this is uh this is like somebody you outsource this to, you kind of like you collaborate with them and say, like, if you want to dabble with this, like you gotta go to somebody that's an expert in this, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, I mean it's interesting in the towards the end, the side effects.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: There are no there are no human trials, so we don't know side effects.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: They did talk about HGH and EPO as like similar peptides in their side effects, but then the authors went online and they looked at what people reported anonymously in like websites.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: And they talk about like swelling, joint pain, anxiety, panic attacks, heart palpitations, insomnia, drowsiness, weakness, fatigue, loss of appetite, depression, uh, andhedonia.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um again, and they attribute it to the compound is not pure potentially because it's not regulated.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: So who knows what you're injecting yourself with, and or you just freak out because you injected yourself with a compound that you don't really fully trust.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a lot of medical component as well.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like general counsel wrote that for a pharmaceutical company.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know what I mean?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's like, yeah, you know, it's funny, like this is this is why, like, you know, like let's say like Ozempic, for like as just like an example, Ozempic's uh it's a peptide, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like the concept of Ozempic is is there, but the difference is that it's studied, there's safety profiles, there's FDA regulations and stuff like that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know why BPC 157 doesn't have it?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I hate to say this, because a pharmaceutical company can't monetize it because there's no patent on it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know when we're ever gonna get the real truth on this thing because nobody's putting billions of dollars into researching it because nobody's gonna monetize it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's still like I hate to say a dark market kind of thing, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Or black market kind of thing, but that's kind of like what it seems like right now.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And these compound pharmacies, like if you want to be successful and get people to do it, maybe they lace it with something like a little booster thing or a little something like that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like the stories, like, you know, we talked about that baseball player, the stories are so common that like, you know, I jest a little bit when we say, like, you know, that's what everybody says.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: But like, yeah, I mean, you hear that all the time that people inject something and there was more in it than they thought, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, interesting.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, Brendan, what do you think?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was my turn to get kicked out of the chat room.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope I'm not repeating what Dave was saying because I missed all of that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I think my I I think this is really interesting.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just like all of you guys, like uh get this question a lot, especially within the last year or so.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and like you said, people are taking this.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So even if there aren't human trials, like a lot of people are taking it, and it's very seemingly easy to get.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm um it was cool to read a little bit more about it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: But um one, like I I dream of the day where like after surgery, like out outside of just getting like a nerve block and like a couple days of painkillers, they prescribe like the essential amino acids, like we've talked with some surgeons, protein, creatine, and then maybe they prescribe BPC 157 when it's we have more data on it, and it helps to attenuate atrophy and jump starts the rehab process.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like that's really exciting to me.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's low-hanging fruit that we could really get better at in terms of rehab.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also don't think it's there yet.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um did we talk about the angiogenesis thing and uh some of the the downsides to it?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: We touched upon that it's a byproduct, it's a result of the injection.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't talk about anything else.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I I guess what I wanted to bring up, and tell me if I'm wrong, you know, this is certainly not something that I talk about every day.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but my understanding is that the the BPC157 increases the VEGF, which then helps with uh producing angiogenesis, which is essentially building new blood flesh uh blood vessels, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it makes sense from like a rehab standpoint, and it's probably why it's effective, maybe.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also the same biological pathway that makes tumors grow, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that is a little concerning to me.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so it's not that angiogenesis is bad, you know, from BPC 157, but it does raise a little concern to me about like unwanted cell growth from this as a byproduct.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so like, yeah, maybe it seems to help a lot of our orthopedic injuries, but also like if it's helping tissue grow, is it helping unwanted tissue grow that maybe we don't know about?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really one that like I I don't know if that's true.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's a big concern in the back of my mind every time someone asks me about that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, there there's peptides that stimulate, you know, HGH and you know pituitary gland function, stuff like that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's there's some real concerns about like some of these concepts, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: And not that it would give you cancer.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you know the safety profiles are showing that, but like again, God forbid you have something growing that you don't know about yet and you stimulate that, that would that would stink, you know.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I I think that's that's like a fear that's probably gonna like limit me from doing these sorts of things.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I think just like everything else, like maybe you have a minor injury and you you inject it locally for something, you know, that sort of thing.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe maybe there's some future here on this.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know the answer to this, but I I think right now with with without having like anybody being able to monitor this, like I just I I don't know how we get past just the influencer phase of people recommending this because I just don't know.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how we're gonna get there.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we need some science out there, but we need some real science, and it's not just like simple things like that somebody's gonna do in a clinical practice, like so.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I hate to say I don't know the future of this, but like it's exciting, but also like I just I don't know.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: We I don't know how we're gonna get there.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I don't know what how I'm gonna feel better about saying that this is something we use.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we just need a lot more human trials, like phase one, phase two, phase three.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: We need all that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh to a little on Brendan's point about um cancer and all that, you are correct, I would imagine.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: They did also talk about one study assessed the uh mutagen mutagenicity and teratogenicity of the um of the compound, basically looking at do we does any mutations occur um by injecting, or is there any effects of like fetal development?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that one study did not prove that there was uh uh any kind of that ill effect occurring from BPC-157.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: But that doesn't mean it's safe, that just means one which I don't know, I didn't read that one study, but there is one study that talks about mutating your genes.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um but that's a little different than what Brandon was talking about, but yeah, could cause cancer as well.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: So what's so early?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: What's our take what's our take home?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're a clinician and you're faced with this, right, and you have this here first, the first thing you understand is you have to understand what it is.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then like because you gotta understand that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you know, read the papers are very helpful.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, this episode kind of like sheds some light on it here.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, I think the talking points that you can tell people again is, you know, like this is a banned substance.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're an actual athlete, like this is it's kind of a no-go right there.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: But then, you know, you you tell people from your understanding here's what it does, and from your understanding, here's some of the potential, you know, cons.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you say, like, you know, uh, if you're if you're interested in exploring more, I recommend you you go reach out to you know a local person that like this is what they specialize in.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: And by all means, I would find somebody in your community and collaborate with them.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to see this more.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: And trust me, there's tons of people that are willing to take the risk.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, great for them.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, I want to see, I want to see the outcome from them, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I want to learn from that.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: So um awesome.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Len.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, check out that article in the show notes um so you can be a little bit informed on on uh BPC 157 and we'll get ahead of the influencers a little bit.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, you know, the more we know, the more we can have conversations, I think, with the people that are in front of us that trust us each and every day.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: So uh appreciate it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: If you're enjoying these episodes, let us know.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Head to microrund.com, click on the podcast link, and you can submit questions for future episodes.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: You could subscribe from there.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever you need, uh, we're here for you guys.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: So just keep them coming and we'll keep answering.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you on the next episode.