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Short Paws: The Cost of Cute Campaign and the Latest Pet Research · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

• 0:00
  Welcome to Pause Between Us and our short pause episode, your regular dose of positive pet news.
• 0:05
  Every other week we bring you a short, uplifting episode packed with the latest feel-good stories from the world of pets.
• 0:11
  So settle in for a short pause and let's spread some positivity together.
• 0:15
  Yay!
• 0:17
  Hey, Sash!
• 0:18
  Hey, Nat!
• 0:19
  Feels like it's been a while. We've had a week off, haven't we? We didn't do an episode.
• 0:23
  Yeah, we had a week off, didn't we, just to take our own pause, I guess.
• 0:28
  And that is very important.
• 0:30
  Yes, it is. A little bit of a wellness pause and some time away, because I think you had your birthday, didn't you?
• 0:37
  And you've been celebrating and you had some time away. So that's always a good bit of a break.
• 0:44
  Yeah. How have you been? Are you all right?
• 0:46
  Well, not too bad, thank you. Not too bad.
• 0:50
  How's Betty doing?
• 0:53
  Yeah, I have a poorly Betty today. She has a little tummy bug.
• 0:59
  I'm not sure if it's a tummy bug or it's a reaction to some medication that she's been taking.
• 1:03
  So I'm waiting for the vet to call because I just want to check with him.
• 1:07
  But Betty seems to have an annual stomach bug. Once a year she'll get something.
• 1:14
  I don't know whether it's just when the weather changes and there's more bugs about and she's sort of out and about sniffing.
• 1:21
  And she picks something up or she gets it from daycare or whether it's just one of those things.
• 1:25
  But it's not like it happens all the time, just once a year around this time.
• 1:29
  All right. Yeah, maybe it's changing weather, going back to doggy daycare, new doggies.
• 1:33
  I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:35
  Are you worried?
• 1:37
  Not really. I'm going to stop the medication that she's taking.
• 1:41
  So she's taking some anti-acid medication for, I suppose it's like her breed, she can kind of get indigestion.
• 1:51
  She's like eaten. Sometimes she sort of gets a bit uncomfortable and she drools a lot as a result.
• 1:58
  And then you sort of rub her back and she does a little burp.
• 2:01
  So I'm trying to get this medication to see whether or not it stops that.
• 2:08
  Yeah, sometimes you just know, it's like she's got trap wind and you sort of rub her back and she'll do several burps.
• 2:15
  But she's like really like calibrates and she can kind of, yeah, like licking her paws and things like that.
• 2:20
  Oh yeah, that's a bit acid-y.
• 2:22
  Yeah, like has a big wet patch on the sofa.
• 2:26
  They're such a worry, aren't they, animals?
• 2:28
  I know, I know. So I don't know if these tablets are agreeing with her or what.
• 2:33
  But anyway, other than that, she's all good. So how's Weaver and Murray?
• 2:37
  We've had our own little traumas and worries with both of them this week.
• 2:41
  Although Murray's is normal in some respects. He's just had a front fang out.
• 2:46
  Oh, so?
• 2:48
  It looks like, to me, I don't know, I'm not an expert.
• 2:51
  It looked like, because the rest of his teeth, the dentist said that...
• 2:54
  The dentist, I don't know if it's a dental nurse or whether it's just a vet.
• 2:57
  I think they just do vets, don't they?
• 2:59
  The vet said that the rest of his teeth are perfect and lovely.
• 3:02
  He had a little scale and polish while he was under.
• 3:04
  But his fang was exposed, like the root was exposed.
• 3:07
  So they had to take it out and it's massive.
• 3:10
  I feel a bit sorry for him.
• 3:11
  But I don't know if it's a bit of rough and tumble from the play with Weaver
• 3:14
  because they do go for it when they play.
• 3:17
  That's gone, so hopefully he should be in a lot less pain.
• 3:19
  But he came home yesterday still drugged up and he was hilarious
• 3:22
  because he was super loving, trying to walk around everywhere and play.
• 3:27
  But also a bit spaced out, bless him.
• 3:29
  But it was quite sweet to watch.
• 3:31
  But I hate taking them to the vets.
• 3:33
  It's a trauma for me.
• 3:35
  And I really want to speak to vets about improving the whole experience.
• 3:40
  I don't like leaving my baby there.
• 3:42
  The thought of him being on his own there really stresses me out.
• 3:45
  And then I'm worried all day.
• 3:46
  But he came home and he was fine.
• 3:48
  At the end of the day, he got the treatment he needed.
• 3:50
  But they had to do a biopsy because he's got a little lump on his leg.
• 3:53
  So I'm hoping that comes back as nothing.
• 3:55
  But they've taken that while he was under and did some blood.
• 3:58
  So we'll know about that.
• 3:59
  Yeah, well, fingers crossed.
• 4:01
  Did you just find that when you were stroking him then?
• 4:04
  Yeah, I found that over the last two weeks, maybe a bit longer.
• 4:09
  And kind of thought, is that a lump? Is that not a lump?
• 4:12
  I think it's good actually to say to pet parents,
• 4:16
  like, yeah, give your cats and dogs a good stroke and feel around
• 4:20
  so you can check for any changes in their skin and their body.
• 4:23
  And yeah, he definitely had like a very round, obvious lump at the back.
• 4:28
  I have no idea what it is.
• 4:29
  It might just be like a fatty cyst or it might just be nothing.
• 4:32
  So hopefully it is just something or nothing.
• 4:35
  So we'll find out about that.
• 4:37
  Yeah, good to get that checked.
• 4:39
  Bet he has like a little fatty lump.
• 4:41
  Hypoma, is that what they call it?
• 4:42
  Oh yeah, yeah.
• 4:43
  But we had that biopsy just to make sure.
• 4:46
  Because you never know, do you?
• 4:48
  And if you're going in anyway for the things, they can do it at the same time.
• 4:51
  Do it all.
• 4:52
  Yeah.
• 4:53
  That's what I thought.
• 4:54
  Yeah.
• 4:55
  And Weaver had another turn.
• 4:57
  And I'll talk again a bit more about this.
• 4:59
  But she has these little episodes that we call them where it looks like
• 5:02
  she's in either quite severe pain or she's having some kind of seizure.
• 5:06
  It's really strange.
• 5:07
  Her legs go stiff and she loses the ability to sort of,
• 5:11
  it's a bit like lameness, but it goes as quick as it comes almost.
• 5:15
  It wasn't as bad this time, but we've not had one since August.
• 5:18
  So it really threw us a little bit.
• 5:20
  Poor little love.
• 5:21
  I just sort of like reassure her I'm there when we put her on the chair
• 5:24
  and let her kind of get through it.
• 5:26
  So we need to go to the vets and just check if like maybe the pain medicine
• 5:29
  isn't strong enough or if something else is going on.
• 5:32
  It's a minefield.
• 5:33
  Don't really know.
• 5:34
  Yeah, no.
• 5:36
  You probably might never get to the bottom of, but well,
• 5:41
  so long as you know that you are checking everything you can,
• 5:44
  you're doing all the tests that you can and that she is comfortable
• 5:48
  and happy enough.
• 5:49
  Yeah, the rest of the time she seems fine.
• 5:51
  And once she's recovered, she is pretty good.
• 5:53
  Yeah.
• 5:54
  I don't know.
• 5:55
  What I really want is another consultation to really go into it
• 5:59
  and ask a lot more questions and find out, you know,
• 6:03
  what they think it is and why it happens.
• 6:05
  But like you say, they may not get to the bottom of that.
• 6:08
  They might not know.
• 6:09
  And I might be looking for answers that aren't there.
• 6:12
  But that's what really frustrates me, I think, with healthcare.
• 6:15
  Like I just want to know exactly what it is I'm dealing with
• 6:17
  and how to make it better for them.
• 6:19
  But I don't, like I say, I don't think the answers are always there.
• 6:22
  Unless you pay a lot for something that actually you still
• 6:26
  might not get a diagnosis of.
• 6:28
  And then you think, do you want to put them through it?
• 6:31
  Yeah.
• 6:32
  Through all those tests and investigations, it can be quite invasive.
• 6:36
  Stressful.
• 6:37
  Invasive.
• 6:38
  Invasive and stressful, yeah.
• 6:39
  I'm saying evasive, isn't that?
• 6:41
  Evasive when you're like…
• 6:43
  Avoiding.
• 6:44
  Avoiding.
• 6:45
  Yeah.
• 6:46
  Yeah.
• 6:47
  A bit intrusive.
• 6:49
  There you go, folks.
• 6:50
  Similar words, different meanings.
• 6:51
  Yeah.
• 6:52
  Indeed.
• 6:53
  Indeed.
• 6:54
  So what have you got in the news then this week?
• 6:57
  I've got a campaign that I want to talk about that I've sort of seen on my local Tube network.
• 7:04
  I saw it too and wanted to talk to you about it.
• 7:06
  So yeah, that'd be a good one.
• 7:08
  The Cost of Cute, that campaign.
• 7:10
  Yeah.
• 7:11
  Do you want to go into it now then?
• 7:12
  Shall we just start?
• 7:13
  Yeah.
• 7:14
  Yeah.
• 7:15
  I mean, let's go into it.
• 7:17
  So there is a campaign that is currently live from Battersea.
• 7:24
  It's called the Cost of Cute campaign.
• 7:26
  And essentially it's because appearance is driving pet choices, so often at the expense of welfare.
• 7:33
  And I think they're trying to raise awareness of the choices that people make and the impact that that can have.
• 7:42
  Because 66% of Brits, according to Battersea's research, say a pet's appearance is important when choosing one.
• 7:51
  And social media strongly shapes what people see as cute or desirable in pets.
• 7:57
  But health concerns are recognised but not prioritised.
• 8:01
  So while 61% of people consider health important, only 39% would avoid breeds known for health issues.
• 8:08
  And we have talked about this a little bit before.
• 8:11
  So many people don't fully understand how extreme features can link to pain, discomfort and reduce quality of life.
• 8:18
  Yeah.
• 8:19
  And these extreme features create serious welfare problems.
• 8:23
  So some of the things we've talked about before with Betty, that Battersea warns that exaggerated traits like flat faces, bulging eyes, folded ears, short legs,
• 8:32
  can cause breathing difficulties, spinal issues, dental disease and eye and skin problems.
• 8:38
  And these issues often lead to higher vet bills and emotional strain for owners.
• 8:42
  And 16% say they might consider giving up a pet if costs become too high.
• 8:49
  And on the Battersea website, they have an example of a pug called Pudding.
• 8:56
  She's a 10-year-old pug who required surgery due to breathing problems caused by extreme facial structure.
• 9:03
  And that must be the ad I've seen on the tube.
• 9:06
  I must have seen a picture of Pudding, the pug.
• 9:09
  Obviously, being a pug mum, I'm very aware and conscious of all these things.
• 9:14
  But also when I see a pug, I see a picture of one, I see very drawn to it.
• 9:19
  And I suppose that reinforces this point about cute and being desirable.
• 9:25
  Yeah, but it's so hard.
• 9:26
  And like I'd seen these and immediately thought of you because what I wouldn't want is you to feel guilty or self-conscious of being out with Betty
• 9:36
  and people are going to look at you and go, she doesn't care about animals.
• 9:39
  Why has she got a pug? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 9:41
  Do you know what I mean?
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:43
  But also, I know you would want to do the right thing.
• 9:46
  And you know, you don't want an animal to suffer because of these issues.
• 9:51
  So it can be quite confronting.
• 9:53
  But how does it make you feel?
• 9:55
  I mean, I have real mixed feelings.
• 9:57
  Definitely the day I saw the ad on the tube, I was with Betty.
• 10:01
  And yeah, you know, I stopped and noticed it because there was the pug picture.
• 10:06
  And I did feel very self-conscious because I'm on a platform surrounded by lots of people with this ad like right in front of us.
• 10:17
  And yeah, you know, some of the things that you've just described, I thought, oh, people are going to read this and then look at me and think, well, yeah, she's very…
• 10:26
  All she cares about is the look.
• 10:29
  Yeah, exactly. That I'm, yeah, not very… I'm inconsiderate.
• 10:34
  And not very aware of welfare and things like that.
• 10:37
  Not very aware of welfare.
• 10:39
  And interestingly, the day that I saw the ad, I was off to get physio with Betty at Battersea because that's where I've been going for her physio.
• 10:47
  And I did have a little chat to the physiotherapist and she sort of said, yeah, we don't want pug owners or any owners of the pets that are in the campaign because it isn't just a pug.
• 10:59
  There's also…
• 11:00
  There's a Scottish foal cat, isn't there?
• 11:02
  Yeah, called Binks. So there's a cat as well.
• 11:05
  Yeah, I think they really want to raise awareness so people do think about like breeding and they do think about the choices, sort of perspective, pet moms and dads will make before they, if they do go to a breeder.
• 11:21
  It's tough though, isn't it?
• 11:23
  You know.
• 11:24
  I don't know. It's a really hard campaign because you've obviously got to influence the public because they're the ones who drive the choice.
• 11:32
  But when it comes to an animal that like, it's not an inanimate object. It's not like, don't buy an iPad because it's made in China by children who work in sweatshops.
• 11:42
  It's like, it's an animal. So like, you're drawn to it. You love it. And like, it kind of like, it's stigmatising, it's also stigmatising that type of animal at the same time as trying to educate people not to buy them because eventually that will lead to health problems.
• 11:57
  It's such a hard line to walk.
• 12:01
  It is.
• 12:02
  And I don't know if it's the right way to do it. It makes me feel like it's stigmatising those animals and it's not those animals' fault, but I don't know how else you would do it.
• 12:15
  It's almost like you need to, I don't know, because you can't even educate breeders because anyone could be a breeder and anyone could keep breeding the same types of animals.
• 12:22
  Is this really going to hit a breeder? I don't know.
• 12:26
  I mean, yeah, it's tricky. And I completely agree with everything that they're saying around the difficulties.
• 12:35
  Yeah, of course.
• 12:36
  Because I've experienced it. I've seen Betty experience it. And then as a consequence of that, I've experienced it myself. And, you know, the things they're saying about vet bills and things like that.
• 12:46
  Yeah, you know, Betty does have challenges that we do go to the vets about. And, you know, there are some people that can't afford to go to the vet.
• 12:55
  So, you know, there probably are lots of dogs that are also, or pugs that are also suffering even more because they don't have the same sort of access that Betty has to support.
• 13:07
  And, you know, I definitely wasn't influenced by social media, though. I think I've had Betty 10 years and I had thought about having a pug in my life way before that, way before social media, way before I had Instagram, way before TikTok was a thing.
• 13:25
  You know, I probably considered having a pug at least 25 years ago because I'm getting on a bit now.
• 13:36
  So, I have a question. What made me want to have a pug in my life? And, you know, we adopted because I wanted to do the right thing by an animal that needed a home or a pug that needed a home.
• 13:49
  So, yeah, I feel like that was a good thing. I sometimes wonder what would have happened to Betty if I hadn't adopted her. Who knows? And I try and do the right thing by her.
• 14:01
  But, yeah, I know on social media and some of the pug groups that I'm in, a lot of pug sort of parents were quite, I think, offended a little bit by the campaign.
• 14:13
  I can imagine.
• 14:14
  I think for the reasons you mentioned sort of at the beginning where people feel that they're being stigmatised or singled out.
• 14:21
  Yeah.
• 14:23
  Sometimes if you do feel a bit guilty or a bit shamed by some of the things that it's raising, it can make people feel a bit defensive.
• 14:30
  So, because no one wants to feel like they're not giving their pug the best life possible.
• 14:37
  But, of course, there are many ways in which, you know, your dog has a good life.
• 14:43
  It isn't just about the love you give. It is about some of the things that Batsy's raising. So, I get it.
• 14:47
  Yeah, I get it. I get it completely. But I'm now wondering whether there's a better way to do it actually in terms of just educating people about the physical problems that these breeds will have rather than trying to make people feel or kind of set the angle as to these are breeds that shouldn't really be around.
• 15:07
  That's the kind of message I get and I totally agree with it and I totally get the difficulty in pitching this and I totally kind of support the campaign because we do need to not breed for looks.
• 15:21
  But I wonder if there's a way of doing it so that it's more about just educating people about the health troubles that come along to stop people from buying them in that way rather than say breeding them this way is wrong because that's not the message that the general public perhaps need to hear.
• 15:41
  I don't know. I don't know.
• 15:44
  Yeah, I think by introducing the cute element, it can make pet parents or pug moms and dads like me feel a bit shallow. It's like the only reason we have a pug in our life is because we're very focused on the looks and that's all we really prioritize and we are prioritizing that over anything else.
• 16:07
  And so, yeah, you know, you do sort of think, well, that's making me feel like I am a bit sort of shallow or focused on.
• 16:15
  Yeah, it's about you.
• 16:17
  About me and what's important to me. And, you know, it's interesting. I see Betty as Betty now. I don't see Betty as a pug. I see Betty as my, yeah, my everything really. And I see Betty with her personality and her little quirks and her likes and dislikes.
• 16:40
  So, yeah, you know, maybe that's turning Betty more into a person which is a discussion for another day because there's a whole topic on that, isn't there?
• 16:49
  I know. There is.
• 16:50
  Where you're treating your pets like they are your children or your best friend or whatever.
• 16:57
  Fur baby.
• 16:58
  Yeah, like your little baby.
• 17:00
  My fur baby.
• 17:01
  Betty is Betty. Betty is not always the pug. But anyway, so have mixed feelings. Be interested to see what others think that have sort of seen the campaign.
• 17:16
  Similarly, it's not the same. So my first cat as an adult on my own was Diaz, who was a Persian. She didn't have a flat face. I purposefully didn't go looking for a Persian with a flat face. I purposely looked for one that had a more of a natural snout.
• 17:32
  But after having her and knowing that I couldn't keep on top of her knotted, matted fur that matted really easily, despite the lovely kind of nature she was and the gorgeous little cat she was, I was like, I'm not going to get another Persian because I know as an owner, I can't keep on top of her needs in terms of her fur.
• 17:54
  And so I'm not going to do that again and get a cat. And I made that choice knowing my limitations. And it wasn't about health in the same way as that. But it was around knowing what I was capable of doing and giving. And I think pet owners should be thinking in that way for sure. You know what their capabilities are and what they're able to give their pet.
• 18:14
  Yeah, I have learned a lot from having Betty. And like you say, it has made me think twice about the dog I'll have in the future, definitely. But in my eyes, I want Betty to live forever. We won't go on to that thought at this point about the dog I may have in the future.
• 18:39
  That's not even a conversation, no.
• 18:41
  Not a conversation for now. But yeah, definitely. I think there's lots of things there to digest and think about.
• 18:51
  But what have you got? What's in your news?
• 19:03
  So I've been finding research and a little bit more of insight into animal behaviours and stuff. So I've got two very short things, hopefully, and maybe a little bit of learning.
• 19:16
  So I came across a study that was done by Malkiney, Tooley, Ethoxley and Wolfensohn, if anybody wants to look them up. So it's a study using the animal welfare assessment grid, which suggests sleep may be an important welfare indicator for dogs.
• 19:33
  Now, I didn't know too much about this and hadn't really thought about sleep for animals, but it's very interesting. So they have a tool that assesses animal welfare over time and looks at sort of physical, behavioural and environmental stuff. And in this study, they found that more than 60% of 105 dogs were sleeping less than the recommended 14 hours a day.
• 19:55
  14 hours, yeah.
• 19:56
  See, I didn't know that.
• 19:57
  Did you not know? I think I've read that before. It's 14 hours, which sounds quite a lot, but yeah.
• 20:04
  Yeah, because I thought dogs were quite active and I know they do sleep, but I didn't think they needed that long.
• 20:10
  Yeah, no. So if you think about, say, seven or eight hours overnight and then another seven in the day.
• 20:16
  During the day.
• 20:17
  And puppies, I think, need even more. I might be wrong.
• 20:19
  Yes, well, I'm coming on to that. So this shorter sleep was linked with poorer welfare, especially levels of fear, anxiety and frustration, which makes sense and that echoes in humans, doesn't it?
• 20:31
  There was some limitations to the study, which they have said. So they couldn't say what caused what, like whether bad welfare caused bad sleep or bad sleep caused bad welfare.
• 20:40
  And that may be some other factor because the way they did the study, it was measured by pet owners reporting rather than anything that was a bit more measured and scientific.
• 20:49
  So they do say this, but it's a useful, it could be a useful tool to measure wellness and promote through education that actually dogs do need a decent night's sleep to feel good.
• 21:01
  And it might not, you know, diagnose a problem, but it might lead to prompting other questions around their wellness.
• 21:07
  But yes, you mentioned puppies. So puppies need even more sleep.
• 21:10
  And again, I've read a few things about this with puppies and they need 18 to 20 hours a day in their first few months as their brains and their bodies are developing.
• 21:21
  And chronic sleep can lead to behavioural problems, weakened immunity and even growth issues. So make sure your new pups get plenty of sleep.
• 21:29
  Similarly to that, I knew this was something that's been in the back of my head for a while and that young dogs shouldn't be walked too much either.
• 21:36
  So it's recommended that limiting exercise to five minutes per month of age until like a year, a year and a half old.
• 21:45
  So like 20 minutes for a four month old pup. Don't do any more than that.
• 21:49
  So too much exercise can risk joint damage, lifelong mobility problems and especially in larger breeds.
• 21:55
  I thought that was quite educational.
• 21:58
  Yeah, it is. I always remember years ago, I watched a TV programme, one of these like vet programmes where you have a dog or a cat and then you have their mum or dad on the programme, you know, talking about some of the challenges they're facing.
• 22:12
  And there was a dog that I think had joint issues. And from memory, the vet said, actually, you're walking your dog too much.
• 22:20
  I think it was quite a young dog and then it had impacted the sort of development of its joints and things.
• 22:26
  But they said, actually, you know, you're thinking you're doing the right thing again.
• 22:29
  You know, this sort of dog dad, I think it was, you know, thought that his dog needed a lot of, needed more exercise than actually he really did when he was quite young.
• 22:42
  So it always stuck with me. And then I remember me looking it up because actually you can go the other way. You could do too much walking.
• 22:51
  Interesting. I mean, again, I think the key here really is like owners, if you're going to get a pet, whatever it is, do your research a little bit and just at least understand what is right.
• 23:01
  It does feel like there needs to be like a little handbook given to new pet owners, new pet parents for whatever animal they get.
• 23:08
  So they just have the basics in a really simple, straightforward way because getting an animal is such a responsibility and you need to take care of it.
• 23:17
  Don't you? Well, you need to look after its wellness. It's more to it than just going diving straight in.
• 23:23
  No, indeed. I remember before we brought Betty home, we downloaded the pug book. I think we used to buy it online.
• 23:31
  It was like a PDF and we downloaded it and printed it and tried to learn all we could about the breed.
• 23:36
  But also just about having a dog. So I've obviously had dogs all my life, but it was always good to sort of just go through it and remind yourself a little bit.
• 23:46
  So, yeah, we've still got it actually. Sometimes do refer to it.
• 23:50
  Oh, that's good. So the other very short one is similar vein.
• 23:56
  So I came across a post on LinkedIn again from someone called Maya Batcham and she's a specialist for animal and human safeguarding.
• 24:03
  And she's got a business around training this thing called Loop Safeguarding.
• 24:10
  She's international award winning umbrella body. And she did a post. I'm hoping to invite her on.
• 24:14
  Actually, I did reach out to her. So hopefully she'll come on and explain some of this a bit more.
• 24:18
  But basically, she said that dogs experience a range of emotions similar to that of a two to two and a half year old child, including fear, sadness and excitement.
• 24:26
  Dogs share a very similar brain core structure to us. And like us, dogs have frontal lobes, temporal lobes, limbic system,
• 24:34
  and which all processes fear, memory and spatial awareness in very similar ways.
• 24:38
  Additionally, dogs possess a sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system that function in ways broadly comparable to humans,
• 24:46
  including physiological stress responses associated with trauma like fright and fight and freeze.
• 24:53
  So there's so much to understand about the emotions and cognitive lives of animals.
• 24:59
  But they feel similarly to children. They feel emotional pain and can be traumatized.
• 25:05
  So she delves into traumatic kind of experiences that maybe a household can have and that a dog may react and have a similar response.
• 25:15
  So very interesting. So she's hoping to do research to contribute to a deeper understanding of the sentience and seeing them as victims of domestic abuse and other kind of things that may occur.
• 25:28
  So I love that and want to reach out to her and talk to her a bit more about what she's looking into.
• 25:33
  Yeah, that would be really interesting because there's lots there, isn't there, to explore.
• 25:40
  Things that we may never have considered before in terms of the things that animals experience that are similar to humans and then the impact of that on their daily lives.
• 25:51
  So yeah, let's see if we can have that as a future topic.
• 25:54
  Yeah, I'd love to invite her on. So yeah, that's my little bits of news.
• 25:59
  Great, thanks for sharing. Yeah, lots to learn this week.
• 26:03
  Hopefully people have learned something today and thanks for all our new listeners who have been joining in and following us.
• 26:08
  We really appreciate the support. Get in touch if you've got any topics you want us to cover.
• 26:13
  We've got lots of new things coming up and we hope to kind of keep educating and sharing good news.
• 26:19
  Yeah, thank you.
• 26:24
  Thank you.