Latest / Citizen Frame / Tombstone (1993)

Transcript

Tombstone (1993) · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  Alright, Clanton. You called down the thunder. Well, now you've got it.
• 0:07
  You see that? It says United States Marshal. Wyatt, please don't kill me.
• 0:14
  Please. Take a good look at him, Mike, because that's how you're going to end up.
• 0:20
  The cowboys are finished, you understand me? I see a red sash. I kill a man wearing it.
• 0:27
  So run, you curse.
• 0:30
  Run! Tell all the other curs the line's coming!
• 0:32
  Music.
• 0:35
  You tell them I'm coming! And hell's coming with me, you hear?
• 0:40
  Hell's coming with me! Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of Citizen Frame.
• 0:46
  We do have the Bone Collector coming out really soon here.
• 0:50
  Once you're recorded and ready to go, we just need to, unfortunately,
• 0:55
  and fortunately, we need to talk about Tombstone.
• 0:58
  Now the reason we're talking tombstone today is we were
• 1:01
  going to get to it we've talked about in the past but obviously this
• 1:04
  would be a good day to do that just because of the sad passing of
• 1:08
  an actor i grew up watching and always enjoyed his
• 1:11
  work and that is val kilmer i watched
• 1:15
  val kilmer when he started doing comedies like real genius and the very funny
• 1:20
  top secret please see top secret it's funny as fuck then he obviously his big
• 1:26
  break was iceman his top gun yeah which he didn't want to do originally because
• 1:29
  he thought the characters were kind of one-sided.
• 1:34
  But luckily he did that. We get movies like Willow.
• 1:38
  Not a big fan of it. But it did catapult him to a quick success.
• 1:42
  A success that kind of faded in the mid-90s after Batman.
• 1:47
  Yeah. He did the scene as well.
• 1:49
  Yeah, well, let me get through this here. He did a couple of really great films.
• 1:55
  He did The Doors. He was very good in it, but the film was terrible.
• 1:59
  Poorly directed by Oliver Stone.
• 2:01
  And then he did a movie called Thunderheart, which I think people need to see.
• 2:04
  I've mentioned it a couple of times on this podcast.
• 2:07
  It is a great film. and then he went on
• 2:10
  to do batman which nothing against him
• 2:12
  i think just joel schumacher destroyed those those two films and this is where
• 2:18
  unfortunately rumor has it he was kind of an eagle on the on the set and he
• 2:23
  burned a lot of bridges now i'm not gonna hear and dance on the man's grave
• 2:26
  of course i'm not because i'm a big fan of bill kilmer but his career did fade a bit,
• 2:30
  he did a movie heat which was fucking awesome brilliant film but then he went
• 2:35
  independent that the big studio has walked away and he went smaller budgets.
• 2:40
  But I'm going to tell you guys right now, he's done three films that are under
• 2:45
  the radar that nobody saw that are absolutely wonderful, including David Mamet's Spartan.
• 2:50
  It is a kidnap thriller. Great whodunit. Kirsten Bell's first film.
• 2:56
  It is really, really good. He also did, God, I'm going to butcher,
• 3:02
  he did Wonderland about the porn star murder.
• 3:06
  That happened, I think the porn show was Holmes.
• 3:10
  Yes, John Holmes maybe, was it? John Holmes I think it was. I think it was his murder.
• 3:15
  But it's another great film. He did the Salton Sea.
• 3:18
  Now you guys want to see some ugly characters in the film, check out the Salton Sea. It's almost like,
• 3:26
  a non-comedic version of True Romance. Right.
• 3:30
  I haven't seen it. Yeah, that's why I bring those three up to talk Phil Kilmer.
• 3:35
  And then he did a lot of, you know, B stuff or direct-to-video stuff.
• 3:38
  But those are the ones I want people to see. I want them to see Thunderheart as well.
• 3:43
  Films that they didn't know he was in that never got any fair play. What a part.
• 3:48
  He will be missed because he's done some fun stuff and iconic characters.
• 3:53
  I've always really liked him.
• 3:56
  Yeah yeah and even despite batman being
• 3:59
  terrible he did his part it wasn't necessarily
• 4:01
  his fault he was there to do what he was told joel schumacher
• 4:05
  destroyed the franchise nobody else i think i think he's
• 4:07
  actually decent in in that batman forever film i would have to watch it again
• 4:12
  to be honest with you and i remember i was 18 when i came out i remember seeing
• 4:17
  it in the cinema and thinking that it was okay but not as good as the previous
• 4:22
  two burton ones val kelmar I think one of the problems,
• 4:26
  I think, with Val Kilmer's Batman is that he wasn't Michael Keaton.
• 4:31
  And, you know, after everyone was so used and liking Michael Keaton's Batman so much.
• 4:36
  But, I mean, I've always liked Kilmer, especially in things like Keaton.
• 4:39
  Do you remember he was in The Island of Dr. Moreau?
• 4:42
  Yeah, that was another production. Yeah, well, him and Marlon Brando did not get along.
• 4:48
  Well, see what you were saying? Apparently, you know, with the being difficult
• 4:51
  to work with, you know, sort of reputation and stuff.
• 4:53
  Apparently that was a thing but i've also
• 4:56
  read a lot of reports that with fans he was the
• 4:59
  complete opposite and really down to earth and a
• 5:02
  great guy but yes there were there were reports as well
• 5:05
  of you know issues on sets of films and stuff and yeah being difficult but apparently
• 5:09
  he was great with the fans i've always liked him yeah i mean he seems like a
• 5:13
  pretty down to earth guy yeah so like i said i don't want to disrespect him
• 5:17
  by any means by saying that but that's the only reason I brought that up was
• 5:21
  because his career did the nosedive.
• 5:23
  Yeah. Going more independent route and maybe actually probably more humbled
• 5:27
  him as a person. I believe he even says that in his book.
• 5:29
  Well, you mentioned true romance as well, but just like jump in there.
• 5:33
  He's also in that as Elvis.
• 5:35
  Well, that's right. You know, I forgot about that. He's Elvis.
• 5:39
  He's the, he's the alter ego.
• 5:40
  Yeah, that's right. Mentor. I think the character's credited as,
• 5:44
  but it's basically Val Kilmer as Elvis. Yeah.
• 5:47
  But, yeah, another sad loss. Him and Gene Hackman. Yeah.
• 5:51
  And so you will be missed. But we got all those great films to watch to always revisit.
• 5:57
  Our boy, Val Kilmer. Rest in peace, pal. Yeah, indeed.
• 6:01
  On that note, we're going to talk to you still. I'm here, Huckleberry. Yeah. Yeah.
• 6:07
  I saw this movie in 1993. Fucking amazing film.
• 6:10
  I love this film. This is the Guys Guys Western. This brought back the old Outlaw
• 6:16
  of Josie Wales and the Wild Bunch and the Magnificent Seven.
• 6:21
  This is what this film is. Well, it's very much a sort of callback to the sort
• 6:26
  of the classic Western era of maybe, you know, likes of, you know, Ford and stuff.
• 6:31
  And, you know, even, you know, John Wayne and stuff and those types of Westerns,
• 6:36
  you know, right back to the 30s, you know, 40s, 50s, you know,
• 6:40
  even into the 60s and stuff.
• 6:42
  So yeah it's very much a sort of tip of
• 6:44
  the hat to that era i think anyway for
• 6:47
  me yeah it is though
• 6:50
  of course it is especially when you get robert mitchum narrating and
• 6:53
  chelton heston cameo yes exactly so that's definitely there that's for sure
• 6:58
  but most importantly so let's let's let's talk about the director here now we'll
• 7:02
  first talk about kevin jarred kevin jarred wrote this very popular in the time
• 7:06
  taking too young sadly yes but he did rambo 2 devil's own The Mummy trilogy.
• 7:12
  Great film called Glory back in the early 80s. I remember Glory,
• 7:15
  yeah. World War II film, isn't it?
• 7:18
  No, Civil War. Civil War, that's right, yes. I believe that's where Denzel got
• 7:22
  his best recording actor Oscar.
• 7:24
  I don't know. Or was Morgan Freeman. Well, I think it was Denzel who got his first Oscar.
• 7:29
  But you had...
• 7:32
  He was going to direct, and he was directing, but he was fired about a month into it.
• 7:37
  So what happens in Hollywood is you have to have a director on board.
• 7:42
  It's part of probably union stuff and yada, yada, yada.
• 7:45
  Yeah, so yeah. So Kurt Russell, Kurt Russell essentially directed the film.
• 7:49
  He ghost directed it, they called it. But George P.
• 7:52
  Kismatos came on set to help, because he's the experienced director, to help take the helm.
• 7:59
  So, and Kurt Russell, kudos to him, didn't want the director credit.
• 8:03
  So they gave it to George Peace Cosmatos. Now, again, George Peace Cosmatos taken too soon as well.
• 8:09
  But this isn't like a Tobey Hooper, Steven Spielberg thing.
• 8:14
  This is more of George Peace Cosmatos did come on.
• 8:18
  I would say probably the assistant direct to help Kurt Russell go through the
• 8:22
  scenes and how to shoot him. Yeah, more of it from a technical side, I think.
• 8:26
  Apparently the- Exactly. Apparently
• 8:27
  Kurt Russell also heavily rewrote the script as well, uncredited.
• 8:32
  Yeah. No one knew about this until DVD extras came out.
• 8:37
  You know what I mean? And the making of all these stuff come out with Blu-ray and so forth.
• 8:41
  So we all kept it hush-hush, which I kind of like. I do like the fact there's no egos here.
• 8:47
  And George P. Casmanos is a wonderful director. I love his stuff. I like Rambo too.
• 8:52
  I like Cobra as batshit crazy as it was. And I'm a big fan of Leviathan.
• 8:59
  So they all did their part okay they all did their part and so there's the story
• 9:04
  about what went wrong in the back and what happened in the back scene apparently
• 9:07
  the good thing is to with with.
• 9:10
  Was it apparently there were issues between kurt
• 9:13
  russell this is what i've read by the way obviously it wasn't there but
• 9:16
  apparently there were issues between kurt russell and michael rooker and
• 9:20
  with the way kurt russell was basically although
• 9:23
  obviously the start of it acting in the scenes he
• 9:26
  apparently was taking too much time over certain scenes
• 9:29
  i think it's a scene where they're in charlton heston's character's house
• 9:32
  and apparently according reports
• 9:36
  Rooker cracked and sort of
• 9:38
  went off on one at Kurt Russell and then because
• 9:41
  of that you know the way films are for the most part filmed
• 9:44
  out of sequence this was one of the earliest scenes that they filmed but because
• 9:48
  of this then Michael Rooker's role in the script and obviously the finished
• 9:53
  film was actually reduced heavily by Kurt Russell because the two had a falling
• 9:58
  out over Rooker losing it with Russell I don't know again like I say it's just what I've read up on.
• 10:04
  It could be because he doesn't have a huge part you see a couple we'll talk
• 10:07
  about his character Sherman in a while but his death happens right at apparently
• 10:13
  the original script was more of an epic where it was more you know about the
• 10:18
  Clanton gang and it was more sort of,
• 10:22
  essentially saying that these are just two groups of men who there was no real
• 10:27
  sort of out and out bad guys or good guys were actually drawn similarities to
• 10:30
  them but Russell then whenever he rewrote the script had it more on the arcs,
• 10:36
  essentially, you know, more focus.
• 10:39
  I could have gone either way with that. Yeah. I like, too bad they couldn't
• 10:44
  remove the romance and give us more of the Cowboys then.
• 10:48
  I would have liked to have seen that. Yeah. But the one thing this film gets
• 10:53
  right, like, you know, we see all these films based on true story.
• 10:56
  Yes. And they take very little of the truth.
• 11:00
  But this one actually, believe it or not, carries a lot of truth to it.
• 11:04
  Now, what happens is, is that you have these guys called the Cowboys.
• 11:08
  You know, everyone thinks, oh, the Cowboys are the good guys. They're not.
• 11:11
  Back then, in the 1870s and 1880s, you had this gang called the Cowboy Gang.
• 11:16
  They wore red shashes, portrayed as villains in the movie, obviously in Tombstone.
• 11:21
  They are a real-life outlaw group based in the Arizona Territory.
• 11:24
  It was basically- And Wyatt Earp, let me finish, please.
• 11:27
  Wyatt Earp and Doc did go after these guys. Yes. This part is all true.
• 11:35
  And the okay corral was part of that now we'll we'll be introduced to a lot
• 11:41
  of characters that weren't really part of that gang but they'll be implemented
• 11:45
  in here just as part of history,
• 11:48
  they stick true everyone thinks wired up was this big gunman he wasn't he killed only one man,
• 11:54
  in his before obviously this half this showdown went down in real life he killed
• 12:00
  one man and he regrets it, there's actually a conversation we'll talk about
• 12:04
  he has with Morgan about it.
• 12:06
  And so Wired Up wasn't this gun-toting killer. He was a great gunsman, but he wasn't a killer.
• 12:12
  Well, apparently he was also a bit of a sort of wild man as well, let's just say.
• 12:17
  And probably in his youth yeah in
• 12:20
  terms of like a bit of a ladies man and stuff
• 12:23
  like that heavy drinker gambler all that sort of thing but
• 12:26
  you know what it was the wild west you know what do you expect but i do know
• 12:31
  it was the wild west man yeah exactly it was the 1880s man that's the way they're
• 12:36
  old but no essentially apparently see see white erp himself lived till he was
• 12:41
  like until, I think he was in the 80s,
• 12:44
  it was like 1929 when he died but apparently a lot of the legend surrounding
• 12:49
  him was actually caused by him.
• 12:52
  Basically down to himself and self-promotion, so it was again,
• 12:57
  obviously I don't know, but who knows, but yes, generally this film, Tombstone,
• 13:02
  does although there is a bit of playing with history, you're always going to
• 13:05
  get that, but generally it does stick to the story it does, including our boy Ringo.
• 13:11
  Yes, Johnny Ringo. Now, we know Ringo played wonderfully.
• 13:15
  I think next to Hicks, his best performance.
• 13:20
  And I have to say, he plays Johnny Ringo. Now, Johnny Ringo is a character.
• 13:23
  He was part of the Cowboy gang.
• 13:25
  He was found with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
• 13:28
  They said it was a suicide. Yeah. But a lot of people think it was Doc and Wired
• 13:33
  Up who took him down, which I think that's badass.
• 13:36
  Well, and this here, it's obviously Doc that takes him down But yes there was
• 13:41
  definitely a bit of confusion Surrounding his real Life death From what I've
• 13:47
  read it appears to be suicide But.
• 13:49
  But the, yeah, exactly. But the cool thing is, at least they play on that,
• 13:54
  because he does have a gunshot wound to his head at the end of this. Yeah.
• 13:57
  And they do complain to what's fake and what's not. But most of the names in
• 14:01
  this that we're going to talk about, Archie, we won't go through them all.
• 14:04
  We kind of just, we just did, you dumped on all of you.
• 14:07
  Now we're just going to go ahead and talk about the film itself. Exactly.
• 14:10
  And it is there for entertainment. It is, it's not a documentary.
• 14:14
  You know what I mean? And so, you know, people shouldn't, I don't think,
• 14:19
  get too fixated on historical accuracy of Hollywood films.
• 14:23
  They're never going to be documentaries. They're not meant to be.
• 14:27
  They're meant to be entertainment first and foremost. Yeah, but you know what?
• 14:30
  To piggyback on that, I think films like this need to be done because look at me.
• 14:35
  I would have known any of that information about Johnny Ringo or the Clans,
• 14:41
  any of those, unless the movie interested me enough to go look into it.
• 14:45
  Just to back that up even further, when I was a kid, I went through a phase
• 14:49
  where I absolutely loved the Young Guns films.
• 14:53
  And because of the Young Guns films, I developed a serious interest into the
• 14:58
  real life case of the Lincoln County War.
• 15:00
  And, you know, Billy the Kid and all the rest of it, John Tunstall and,
• 15:03
  you know, all that sort of thing.
• 15:04
  So yes, it does sort of As long as you're watching them Knowing that they're
• 15:09
  playing about with history You can then go off your own bat And look into the
• 15:13
  real life cases And the real history So yes, I've done that And I do do that, you know.
• 15:20
  So what the film does really quickly and does
• 15:23
  it right is the introduction to
• 15:26
  the goodies and the baddies now we meet the
• 15:29
  cowboy gang during a mexican wedding it's actually quite a brutal scene yeah
• 15:33
  especially when the ringo kills the priest and it just shows how it's a it's
• 15:40
  a well how the camera passed and we're going to meet all these bad guys and
• 15:44
  how we meet curly bill and how he's this kind of leader,
• 15:47
  but he's kind of a goof off and really has no morals.
• 15:49
  Then you got Ringo who's just fucking a sociopath. Yeah.
• 15:52
  Then you meet, oh crap, what was... The Michael Rooker character.
• 15:57
  Michael Rooker character, I got it down, I don't have it in front of me. I knew, Sherman. Yes.
• 16:01
  He plays Sherman, and he looks away in disgust. Yeah.
• 16:05
  So you already planted the seed of kind of what might be foreshadowing what
• 16:10
  might happen to some of these characters.
• 16:13
  Well, it also reminded me a bit of the opening into Once Upon a Time in the West.
• 16:17
  And this is a different type of, you know, in terms of tone,
• 16:20
  a different type of sort of western.
• 16:22
  Well, I mean, there are obviously similarities, not just that it's set in the
• 16:25
  West, but similar in terms of, you know, setting up the bad guys in Once Upon
• 16:30
  a Time in the West, Henry Fonda.
• 16:32
  You know? So, yes, it's definitely, it works, setting them up as bastards here in Tombstone.
• 16:38
  Exactly. And then we flip it, and we see Wyatt Earp and Mandy coming off the
• 16:44
  train. That's a bit cringe, actually.
• 16:47
  Was it? The scene where they get off the train and they're standing in front
• 16:51
  of the window. I hate that scene.
• 16:53
  That's pure cringe. Now, listen, we have to take it. Okay, guys?
• 16:57
  First of all, I said in the beginning, I fucking love this film, and I do love it.
• 17:01
  But Maddie annoyed the fuck out of me. Yes. And gotta admit,
• 17:06
  Wired Up wasn't the best husband.
• 17:08
  Marty was even worse in real life, but who knows? yeah well and it's just the
• 17:14
  whole love scene we're going to get with Josephine is cringeworthy.
• 17:19
  It's just we'll talk we'll quickly we'll
• 17:23
  glance over that okay yeah because it's the problem the film was two hours and
• 17:27
  ten minutes or something like that and I enjoyed myself watching but you know
• 17:32
  the horseback riding with Josephine I wanted to hang myself yeah it's cringeworthy
• 17:36
  super opera nonsense yeah Yeah, I wanted to do a Johnny Rinko.
• 17:40
  Yeah. It actually reminded me of Back to the Future 3 with the Doc and Clara.
• 17:46
  And that's cringe as well. But it gets away with it a bit more.
• 17:50
  Here's the problem. The women should have been put aside. And women listening
• 17:54
  to us, I apologize, but I think you'll get what I'm saying.
• 17:58
  It's just. Yeah, it's the way it's going. You could have had them.
• 18:01
  You could have had them. You could have had a certain scene here and there.
• 18:04
  You could have a nice little scene with him and Josephine meeting up for the
• 18:07
  first time and love at first sight. That's fine.
• 18:10
  But they really drag it out. I'm literally, there's a scene,
• 18:13
  I think, where she's glowing and fucking wired her up goes, oh, hell.
• 18:19
  Yeah. Hell no. like my love is in my view oh no,
• 18:24
  and apparently there was also a further scene that they actually did cut where
• 18:28
  it's basically a sex scene between the two of them you know whatever after they're
• 18:32
  I don't know having a picnic or something after they're out you know doing the
• 18:35
  horse riding I hate that whole scene.
• 18:39
  Maybe you could have they could have focused more on his actual wife's drug
• 18:44
  addiction and had that more focused on and the trauma that that brought the
• 18:48
  two of them and something more heavy and serious.
• 18:52
  But please don't give me fucking Sunset Beach bollocks with the fucking this
• 18:58
  romantic subplot, which is just...
• 19:03
  Especially, and here's the problem, and this could be Kurt Russell's direction
• 19:06
  part, not George P. Gaspano's. And script, yeah.
• 19:10
  We'll dive into it. It's when they add the women after a big gunfight. It's like, oh, come on.
• 19:16
  We just had a cool gunfight. now these two idiots are coming on
• 19:19
  the picture and then you're like looking at each other why are you here I'm
• 19:23
  here to protect your husband I'm here to be with my husband and they look at
• 19:26
  each other and they run away like oh fuck it's basically the delivery of it
• 19:31
  and the realization of it is like I say it's straight out of some cheesy melodrama sort of.
• 19:40
  Yeah this could have been this could have been Kevin Jarre's mistake I don't
• 19:43
  know who directed this part but this is not done by George P.
• 19:47
  Cosmanos I guarantee you he was there to do the action.
• 19:49
  Yeah. I think he was there more from a technical side of things.
• 19:53
  Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so we're introduced to them. They want a new life.
• 19:59
  That's fine. I get it. That's cool. We'll go with it.
• 20:01
  Then we're introduced to Doc and Kate. I like this. I do like this relationship.
• 20:06
  Yes. I do like the fact that Kate's using them. Yeah, and Kate's using them.
• 20:10
  There's a scene you will talk about, and it's kind of sad to see the way Doc was treated by her.
• 20:15
  I don't know their whole story. Rumor has it this is true, but I can't speak for it.
• 20:20
  Well, I think with the real-life Doc Holliday being an alcoholic and also quite
• 20:25
  a sort of big name as well, he would have been very fast with the guns and stuff,
• 20:32
  and he became a sort of Wild West celebrity.
• 20:35
  But with his alcoholism and all into the mix, gambling addiction and stuff,
• 20:40
  he's the sort of person who would have had all sorts of people trying to manipulate
• 20:43
  and jump on the bandwagon.
• 20:45
  So in real life, this is probably true. And it was probably worse,
• 20:49
  actually, you know? Most likely. Yeah.
• 20:54
  But I do like when he's playing cards and it kind of shows how fast he is with the guns.
• 21:00
  Yeah. And the guy says, you're stealing from me. You're cheating.
• 21:04
  He goes, I don't cheat. And he ends up knifing him. Yeah.
• 21:07
  He says, put the guns down. He goes, come on, come after me.
• 21:10
  I'll put my guns down. You can come after me. And he stabs him.
• 21:13
  I do think that's funny because that's Frank Stallone.
• 21:16
  Yes, Sylvester Stallone. Yeah. Yeah, and you will have some of those peppered cameos.
• 21:24
  Yes. We'll talk about when we meet Johnny Tyler, who is the dick bully,
• 21:28
  who's the dealer, who's famously played by Billy Bob Thornton.
• 21:33
  Unrecognizable. And yeah, he's a little chubbier here.
• 21:37
  He took this money and went on to do, obviously, his famed role,
• 21:40
  which would be Sling Blade.
• 21:42
  We meet Frank White, who I really like. He's the marshal of the town.
• 21:46
  He's played by Harry Carey Jr.
• 21:49
  Very popular character a very popular actor we got Behan he's kind of the weasel
• 21:55
  yes Terry O'Quinn as well,
• 21:58
  Yeah, he's the mayor. Yeah, he's in like so many westerns. It's like back at
• 22:02
  the end, if Hollywood was doing a western, it's like, yeah, get Terry O'Quinn for a supporting role.
• 22:07
  He was basically in all of them back then, Young Guns and everything. So he was.
• 22:12
  There's loads of them here, sort of, you know, sort of cameos.
• 22:15
  But Billy Zane as the actor, the flamboyant actor.
• 22:19
  Mr. Fabian. Yes. Yeah, when you talk about Mr.
• 22:22
  Fabian and Billy with Jason Priestley, you could have wrote out these characters.
• 22:27
  But there's a reason why one of them is in it.
• 22:29
  So there's a great scene where he's where Wyatt goes in to take over Johnny
• 22:34
  Tyler's role because Johnny Tyler is just a bully. Yeah.
• 22:38
  And he smacks him like like three times. Right. And he's bleeding.
• 22:43
  And he finally says, are you going to throw down? Come on, throw down, boy.
• 22:49
  And he goes, well, you're going to do something. You're just going to stand there and bleed. Yeah.
• 22:53
  And it's the way he delivers the line. I'm telling you now, I don't care.
• 22:57
  Kurt Russell, if you're listening to this, probably isn't.
• 23:00
  I heard it. I highly heard it.
• 23:04
  But he took, that was the way he delivered that line. Well, he's going to do
• 23:09
  something or stand there and bleed.
• 23:11
  That was totally Snake Plissken. Yeah.
• 23:15
  Well, the bit of Clint Eastwood may be thrown in there as well.
• 23:17
  No. Snake Plissken, well, Snake technically is a ripoff of Clint. Yeah.
• 23:22
  The man with no name. But that is him channeling Snake to Wyatt.
• 23:29
  Yeah, well, it's setting him up as, even though he's like the reluctant,
• 23:33
  tough guy, he just wants to go and make money in Tombstone.
• 23:36
  But yet, if pushed, he'll take no shit from the bad guys and the scumbags, you know?
• 23:43
  We talk about the relationships with this as we're meeting this whole thing,
• 23:46
  as we're meeting the entire town folk. And it's really good at doing that,
• 23:49
  whether you like the scenes or not.
• 23:51
  We remember Johnny, we remember Billy and Mr. Fabian. He comes in the picture
• 23:56
  when they go to that play.
• 23:58
  Yes. And you've got Billy played by Jason Priestley, which is nice to see.
• 24:01
  He was an uppercomer from that whole 90210 thing. Yeah. Good on him.
• 24:05
  But his character was kind of pointless.
• 24:07
  I mean, he hangs out for cowboys. He's the reserved, educated one.
• 24:11
  And I remember Curly turns to him there's too many Billys in this movie,
• 24:17
  because this Curly Bill turns to Billy and goes what do you think he goes I
• 24:22
  think he's wonderful and I'm like now we got the homosexual tone which is fine
• 24:27
  go with it I don't care but then we got on top of the whole Josephine romance
• 24:31
  and the whole Maddie thing it's too compressed,
• 24:34
  it's too yeah it's too much with all of this in here but apparently again come
• 24:38
  back to apparently the original script that this was supposed to be like a three-hour
• 24:43
  epic with a lot more focus on the other townsfolk, with them much more fleshed out.
• 24:48
  So here, because it's like two hours, ten minutes or whatever,
• 24:51
  it does feel a bit too compressed and rushed.
• 24:55
  That's where they could have cut it. Yeah. But you cut them all.
• 24:59
  Yes. Billy Zane should not have been in this. Yeah, it's pointless.
• 25:02
  Billy should not have been in this. It does feel as if he's recorded a lot more
• 25:07
  scenes, filmed a lot more scenes, but they have been chopped.
• 25:10
  What we'll get here then is just basically a cameo.
• 25:13
  The piggyback on the romance things, the whole Maddie Blaylock thing.
• 25:18
  Now, he was his wife in real, but he abandoned her and left her. He leaves her.
• 25:25
  She ends up, rumor has it, she's opiate poisoning. She commits suicide because of it.
• 25:31
  Now, the way the film plays is that she was just addicted.
• 25:35
  Yes, the opiates.
• 25:37
  Opiates yeah but if you see some of the information like first when she asks
• 25:41
  him why don't you stay with me tonight don't go to the casino and he's like
• 25:46
  well I gotta make money and they're like well I guess I can stay it's like he
• 25:49
  never really had her back,
• 25:51
  well yeah well apparently this is I
• 25:55
  think it's toned down a quite a bit here but apparently in real life he was
• 25:59
  pretty much a bastard especially to her and I haven't seen the Kevin Costner
• 26:05
  wider film but apparently it gets into this more and it's a bit more warts and all. Well yeah.
• 26:13
  Yeah, it's almost four hours long, and Dennis Quaid does a really nice job playing Doc.
• 26:17
  Yeah, I haven't seen it. But the problem with what you're thinking of,
• 26:22
  yeah, it's just called Wyatt Earp. Yeah.
• 26:26
  That's what, the problem, it's real. Yes. And so you're like, oh, my God.
• 26:32
  It's a bit too great. What's this going to get any good?
• 26:35
  Yeah. Yeah, so it's a double-edged sword, isn't it?
• 26:39
  Yeah. we would like to see some of it but then we'll
• 26:42
  be like oh my god you know what I mean I actually
• 26:45
  do think Tombstone is a happy medium it
• 26:48
  depends essentially what you're looking are you looking pure gritty
• 26:52
  realism or are you looking just entertainment so yes you know maybe the reason
• 27:00
  Tombstone has been more successful than the Costner one is probably due to it
• 27:05
  being a bit more toned down with the realism,
• 27:09
  and being a bit more sort of Hollywood entertaining, if you know what I mean.
• 27:15
  Oh, exactly. Like the scene. A bit more mainstream. Of the scene. Yeah, and accessible.
• 27:22
  Yeah, we come up with a scene, which is probably made up, but it's the best,
• 27:26
  I think one of the best scenes in the film.
• 27:27
  The best scenes in the film are really the conversation between Doc and Ringo.
• 27:32
  Anytime Doc's on the screen, I would say. When they first meet,
• 27:37
  and, oh, it's Johnny Ringo. Yeah.
• 27:40
  And they're just having great banter, speaking in Latin. Yes.
• 27:43
  And Ringo goes, you must be Doc Holliday. I heard you retired too.
• 27:48
  And he says, if he retired, I'm just in my prime. Yeah. And it's just the way
• 27:53
  they're educating men, clearly.
• 27:56
  And the whole, I just love the fact that Michael Biehn says he learned that
• 28:00
  whole gun thing that he does.
• 28:02
  The whole moving the gun, flipping the gun. That was him. Yes. No editing.
• 28:06
  He says it took him forever to learn that. Yeah. And then, obviously,
• 28:10
  the doc does it with the shot glass. Takes a piss out of him.
• 28:14
  Just great banter. Yeah. Just two smart guys on opposite end of the spectrum.
• 28:21
  For me, the best parts of this film, being Michael Bean's great in this,
• 28:27
  but for me, the best parts of this film are any time Val Kilmer's on the screen as doc.
• 28:32
  I think he just totally steals the show. He's fantastic.
• 28:36
  This is where direction is key. Because when you are having this good banter
• 28:40
  between Ringo and Doc, there's tension there.
• 28:44
  And that's shown by when the camera pans down and we see Wyatt with the gun
• 28:49
  underneath the table and he's cocking it. Mm-hmm.
• 28:52
  Because he's getting ready for a showdown. Obviously, it doesn't come to that.
• 28:56
  But it's just a well-orchestrated scene that give us tension and some good banter at the same time.
• 29:03
  I'm brilliantly acted by mainly Kilmer and Michael Bayne.
• 29:08
  And then quickly ruined by a fucking horseback riding scene.
• 29:13
  Oh, Jesus. Oh, yeah. We'll skip it. Yeah.
• 29:17
  We'll skip it. Yeah, please do. Let's just say it's like.
• 29:21
  I do love to have this fucking whole scene of them. Let's go horseback riding, Wyatt.
• 29:26
  Yeehaw. Right? And then they have a picnic. And then we cut to this man,
• 29:29
  he's drinking her life away.
• 29:31
  Yeah. I mean, I'm no prude.
• 29:34
  But let's just say I'm thankful to cut the fucking love scene. that
• 29:38
  apparently was in there and you apparently see part of it in the trailer because
• 29:41
  it's just cringe you know what I mean it is like watching some sort of ropey
• 29:46
  soup opera even the dialogue and the shit that they're saying to each other
• 29:50
  you know what I mean is straight out of I don't know dynasty or nuts landing or something you know.
• 29:58
  And then he starts talking let's move away let's get out of here well you just
• 30:01
  got done bumming fucking Josephine now you want to move away with your drunken wife Yeah.
• 30:07
  Yeah. Come on, Wyatt. Yeah.
• 30:09
  You know, you got a feel for the wife. You know what I mean?
• 30:12
  She was, you know. That's what I'm saying.
• 30:14
  I kind of, I think Wyatt's kind of a dick here. No, he is a dick.
• 30:17
  He's not kind of a dick. He actually is a dick. He's a selfish dick. Yeah.
• 30:22
  And until he gets sworn in. Yeah. Get revenge. Yeah. That's where he's kind of unlikable.
• 30:27
  It takes a second act for him to, okay, finally we get Snake Plissken back.
• 30:32
  Well, this is, yeah, exactly. you know it's romanticized
• 30:36
  snake plissken you know as a sheriff so it
• 30:39
  is and that's okay that's fine for you know entertainment's sake
• 30:42
  you know no problem but yes you know
• 30:44
  to be far at least it didn't sort of you know
• 30:47
  uh brush over it completely you know
• 30:50
  and have him as a sort of you know as a sort of you know
• 30:53
  like a an all-american sort of hero of the west at least they do put it in but
• 30:58
  it's just the way it's done with the you know romance with josephine it's just
• 31:02
  And she's cringe And you know The very final scene Obviously I'm jumping ahead
• 31:08
  But we can skip it as well if you can,
• 31:12
  Yeah We'll talk about the fucking Dancing in the streets Oh dear I wanted fucking
• 31:19
  Johnny Ringo to fucking blow my brains out Whenever that was happening Yeah.
• 31:24
  But I do like the scene where, again, like I said, we get back to the darker
• 31:28
  stuff when the poor sheriff gets it by Curly. Yes. By accident.
• 31:33
  The marshal. Curly didn't mean to do it, but he was just high on opium, whatever. Yeah.
• 31:37
  He was in the William Dan. Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:40
  And that's a whole good scene. And, of course, you got Ike, that fucking pussy,
• 31:44
  who runs away from everything. He's gritting us, Ike. I do.
• 31:48
  Steven Lang's very funny in it. And I do like when he goes, he ain't going to shoot us.
• 31:54
  And why they're supposed to go and do him, he goes, your friends might get to
• 31:57
  me, but not before I turn your head into a goddamn canoe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:03
  And then I was like, okay, guys, back down. Yeah. Back down.
• 32:06
  But he, Stephen Lang is actually really good here as Ike.
• 32:09
  And, you know, he's, he, he, I would say he's, he'd be, you know,
• 32:13
  Kurt Russell is very solid as the lead and he leads well.
• 32:17
  But for me the most memorable ones here would be obviously Val Kilmer as Duck
• 32:23
  but also Stephen Lang as Ike and of course Michael Biehn as you know Johnny Ringo.
• 32:28
  Ports Boots is very good as well. They're all good.
• 32:31
  There's not a character in there I don't kind of enjoy watching besides the overdone of the women.
• 32:37
  No, it's not like a sexist pig. No, no, it's basically... If you listen to the
• 32:41
  podcast, you know what I'm fucking talking about.
• 32:43
  Yeah, well if you've seen the film it's the realisation of the women here and it's just cringe.
• 32:48
  You know what I mean? And that's not even us being either sexist or even like super woke, you know?
• 32:54
  It's just, it's straight out of some really ropey, cheesy, melodramatic daytime soap opera.
• 33:01
  I know I've said that a few times, but it is. Yeah, let's move on from it now. Yeah.
• 33:07
  But we never talked about Sam Elliott, the actor you hate, you said.
• 33:12
  When did I say that? It's some shit. Back in Roadhouse.
• 33:15
  You said i don't get the popularity of sam
• 33:18
  elliot fuck off this is why we like sam elliot but
• 33:21
  but you you said he's a piece of shit and he was horrible at
• 33:24
  what he did no but i mean he's not a real cowboy
• 33:27
  obviously he's an actor who plays yeah and this is he is a scene stealer here
• 33:31
  there's a great shot where the mayor terry o'quinn comes in he goes guys we
• 33:36
  need your help here we need some justice and yes and the and the mayor asked
• 33:41
  virgil you you want to come back and he goes No, I'm good.
• 33:44
  And Wyatt's like, yeah, we're not coming back. He's kind of a big dick still,
• 33:48
  Wyatt, after all this has gone down.
• 33:50
  And the next scene, you see Virgil by himself, and the little kid almost gets
• 33:54
  run over by a horse, and he sees the mother of the child that has a scar on
• 33:57
  her face. Yeah. He just says, enough's enough.
• 34:00
  So he walks in, and Wyatt realizes that Virgil has become the sheriff. Along with Bill Paxton?
• 34:06
  He goes, no more guns in this town. And then Wyatt turns to Morgan and goes...
• 34:11
  Morgan, can you believe this crap? And Morgan shows him his bads.
• 34:14
  He's like, oh, no, fuck. Yeah.
• 34:17
  Yeah. I think, actually, Bill Paxton isn't very good here.
• 34:20
  Well, it's not that he's not good. He's all right. He's decent.
• 34:23
  But he's one of the least memorable throughout the whole film.
• 34:26
  He's a bit of a. Well, that's the whole point. That's what I was trying to get
• 34:30
  at. You got Virgil, who's badass. We all know that because he's Sam Elliott.
• 34:33
  You got Wired, who's the one who's kind of, he thinks he's the rule of the roost.
• 34:38
  Yeah. Then you got Morgan, though, who's the baby brother. Yeah.
• 34:41
  So he's going to be naive and a little more, like the scene where he does become
• 34:46
  a sheriff with his brother.
• 34:48
  Wyatt makes a great speech going, I killed a man once. This is where he finds
• 34:51
  out that Wyatt only killed one man before this all went down, which is true.
• 34:55
  And he says, but he goes, it's going to fester in your brain. You take a life.
• 35:02
  Do you know what that's like? You don't, Martin, because you haven't taken a life.
• 35:05
  But my God, you don't want it, blah, blah. And then he looks at him and he says,
• 35:09
  boy, I haven't even made a dent in you.
• 35:11
  It's a great line. It's a great scene where Kurt is trying to tell him, don't do this.
• 35:16
  But it also kind of explains why Earp doesn't want Morgan to do this because
• 35:21
  he doesn't want to see him dead or killed.
• 35:24
  Yeah. But it also, with Watt, sort of helps explain a bit more his reluctance
• 35:29
  to become the sheriff, you know, because, you know, he just wants to make money
• 35:34
  and enjoy himself, you know, especially with the women.
• 35:36
  You know never mind his wife but
• 35:39
  you know but it also states his sort of guilt and remorse of taking a life again
• 35:44
  harking back to Unforgiven and you know Clint Eastwood and the kids characters
• 35:49
  in that but yeah it also you know helps you understand why he doesn't want to
• 35:55
  be the sheriff it's one of the reasons you know.
• 35:58
  There we get the gunfight yes at the OK Carval six car yeah six cowboys six
• 36:04
  cowboys show up Trevor also shows out fuck swear me in,
• 36:09
  got really no choice at this point again some really good dialogue here where,
• 36:17
  He says, you really want to start this? You really willing to take somebody
• 36:21
  down because of a fucking misdemeanor?
• 36:24
  That's what he's saying, because all they're doing is carrying guns.
• 36:27
  They're not doing anything wrong.
• 36:28
  Yeah. And Virgil looks at them. You're damn right they're doing something wrong.
• 36:32
  They're breaking the law.
• 36:33
  And I like that line, the way he delivers it, Sam. Pretty much Sam being Sam, but God, he sells it.
• 36:40
  And this is where we get the famous gunfight. Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:43
  And I would say, once again, Val Kilmer, outstanding.
• 36:46
  You know the gun fight at the OK Corral and that particular part of it where
• 36:53
  he winks is just fantastic and apparently that was improvised by Kilmer yeah
• 36:59
  but I have a problem with the wink why?
• 37:01
  I think I should have cut it really? I think it's great because.
• 37:07
  When he winks they draw because you know he's offended by you you don't wink
• 37:11
  at me you know what I mean he's just he's just egging him on I guess you can
• 37:14
  say the whole point of the OK Corral was, they weren't there to start the gunfight.
• 37:19
  Yeah. And nobody was jarring.
• 37:21
  Some conversations haven't been had yet.
• 37:24
  Doc welcomed that gunfight, and by blinking the Hebrew, causing the one guy to draw first.
• 37:30
  So technically, they started the fight.
• 37:33
  Yeah, well, I think that's the point. I mean, I think... No,
• 37:36
  I don't think that's supposed to be the point.
• 37:38
  That's not what happened. In the original script, apparently that was the whole,
• 37:41
  the point of the story overall was to say that, you know,
• 37:44
  there's no major differences between the two gangs you know they both have their
• 37:49
  flaws and their good points apparently in the original script which I haven't
• 37:53
  read but you know aside from all of that it's a pretty cool wink you know what I mean,
• 38:00
  you know in terms of setting up a gunfight but yes I keep on board what you're saying,
• 38:06
  Yeah, then B-Han runs over. I'm going to arrest these men. He's like,
• 38:09
  I don't think you're going to be arresting anybody today. Yeah.
• 38:13
  And Rango wants to go and take them all down. But Crowley says,
• 38:16
  no, we'll do it on our own time.
• 38:20
  But this is where everything goes to shit. This is where everything,
• 38:23
  this whole assassination sequence is wonderful.
• 38:28
  And the whole sequence when Virgil gets, obviously, his arm removed.
• 38:32
  Which did happen, by the way. That is true. and then Morgan getting shot.
• 38:37
  This is true as well. So this whole revenge thing did happen.
• 38:42
  Can I just say, I'll jump in. Actually, see whenever Morgan gets it,
• 38:46
  there's a great touch where Kurt Russell is actually holding him and stuff and
• 38:52
  he basically gets his blood, Morgan's blood all over him.
• 38:55
  Then you just see him looking at his hands and it's a great touch because it's
• 38:58
  saying basically that White Earp, because of this confided to OK Corral and
• 39:04
  all of this kicking off, he's basically got blood on his hands and all of this
• 39:08
  is, in a way, caused by him.
• 39:10
  It's an excellent touch during Morgan's death.
• 39:12
  Yeah, I actually have that in my notes. It's blood on his hands and this is
• 39:17
  what revives him to become the madman he might have or the bastard he once was. Yeah, Snake Plissken.
• 39:24
  Yeah. Oh yeah, we got Snake now.
• 39:27
  Too bad he didn't get his eye poked out and he'd get an eye patch.
• 39:30
  Oh, that'd be super cool.
• 39:32
  Not quite historically accurate, but here it wouldn't be cool uh.
• 39:37
  I love this whole train scene. And during the assassination,
• 39:41
  I have to mention, in Arizona where they filmed, yeah, it's called monsoon season.
• 39:48
  And we all think monsoon is, you know, Mexico and all that crap and islands,
• 39:54
  you know what I mean? Yes.
• 39:56
  But monsoon season is lightning storms, a lot of lightning storms. Yeah.
• 40:02
  And all the lightning that you see in the sequence is real. Right.
• 40:06
  I think that's pretty cool. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 40:07
  I mean, I must admit, I am no expert on the meteorological weather of Arizona.
• 40:14
  I am. I'll take your word for it. I'm the best in the meteorological field.
• 40:19
  Yeah, yeah. Here in the weather, man. Yeah.
• 40:22
  Yeah. Frank Mitchell.
• 40:25
  It's sunny today. Yeah. It's sunny and breezy. There you go.
• 40:30
  And you might, in Arizona, that's in Belfast, in Arizona, you might get monsoons. And lightning.
• 40:38
  Only during monsoon season. Come on, man. You know?
• 40:42
  Oh, my God. Is that a stratus cumulus cloud over there? Oh, my God.
• 40:47
  Is monsoon season coming? Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:51
  Yeah. You didn't know what a stratus cumulus was, did you? No,
• 40:53
  it didn't. I'm not the weatherman. You're the weatherman, not me. You know?
• 40:58
  It's a type of cloud. It's a type of cloud. Right.
• 41:01
  Well, I don't know if it's a scary cloud or not. Well, us regular peasants,
• 41:07
  you know, like myself, we just call them clouds.
• 41:09
  But obviously, an expert such as yourself knows the proper scientific terms. So apologies. Yeah.
• 41:17
  I do love when he decides after his death, he tells Curly, I'm leaving. You win. I'm done.
• 41:25
  Yeah. During Morgan's funeral as they put him into the train and Virgil's leaving.
• 41:30
  Morgan's obviously leaving in the box. Sounds horrible.
• 41:34
  And then you see they're going to assassinate Virgil, but it's a trap.
• 41:40
  And Kurt Russell blows the fuck out of one of them. And there's Ike screaming for his life.
• 41:44
  And he hires Creek Johnson and Texas Jack. I like those two guys from one of the earlier scenes.
• 41:50
  And Sherman is now on his side. That's the Michael Roker character. Yes.
• 41:56
  And he, great line. He just fucking loses it.
• 41:59
  And he says, I see a red shass. I'll kill the man wearing it.
• 42:03
  You tell him I'm coming and hell's coming with me.
• 42:06
  And he repeats it and he gets more and more fucking hysterical as he says it. It's so nice.
• 42:11
  And then we get the nice montage of him killing things.
• 42:14
  I think, I think there's actually, I think there's a bit too much editing going on with those montages.
• 42:21
  I would have liked to have seen more of the actual gunfights and stuff.
• 42:25
  It appears to be they've just basically stuffed them all together in these types of montages.
• 42:32
  So I would have liked to have seen more action, essentially,
• 42:35
  like what got with the gunfight at the OK Corral.
• 42:38
  I would say, however, I think it works 100%. Right. I mean, you've got, now, you're right.
• 42:46
  We could have cut 20 minutes of the romance shit. We got 20 minutes of killing. Exactly.
• 42:51
  But they wanted to be a little more grounded. And you do pepper in the romance
• 42:56
  for the ladies who like that crap.
• 42:59
  I don't think anybody likes that crap.
• 43:02
  Yeah. But that's what it's for, period. They're not going to get rid of it.
• 43:06
  But I think it's beautiful when he screams. And then you just see them going
• 43:09
  through slaughtering of these guys and blowing them away. Well,
• 43:13
  whenever... Then it cut to after that.
• 43:15
  But after that montage, then it cut to the river scene, which is so over the
• 43:18
  top. Yes, I would say that. I still love it.
• 43:19
  But see the best about it? In real life, apparently, that did happen.
• 43:23
  No, it didn't. I looked it up. Never happened. Right. According to what I've
• 43:26
  read up, the river scene where...
• 43:28
  No, well, I don't know about the setting of it, but apparently Wyatt Earp's killing of Curly Bill,
• 43:33
  he did actually just walk towards him in front of a hail of bullets and by pure
• 43:39
  chance wasn't shot dead And actually killed Curly Bill I mean it's just what I've read up on.
• 43:48
  He walked into a hail of boots. I don't know. And miraculously wasn't killed
• 43:52
  and then managed to kill Curly Bill in real life, apparently.
• 43:58
  Okay. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But I know the river scene is made up.
• 44:02
  I know Curly Bill was killed, but it might have been set somewhere else. Yeah.
• 44:08
  There is a funny scene when Creed goes, where's Wyatt?
• 44:13
  After the scene, it's a great death by Curly Bill.
• 44:16
  Good death. And when Creed asks, Doc, where's Wyatt?
• 44:21
  Probably down by the river, walking on water.
• 44:25
  Yeah, great line. Well, and he also says, but what Creed does say to Doc,
• 44:31
  and these are the moments that kind of like, he goes, Doc, you're sick.
• 44:34
  You need to get some rest.
• 44:36
  And he says, well, Wyatt Herbert is my friend. And Creed goes,
• 44:40
  Jesus, I've got a lot of friends.
• 44:42
  And he just says, I don't. Well, see, the true emotion of this film is with
• 44:48
  Doc and not with the romance, you know, the love story with Josephine.
• 44:55
  It's a bromance, really. Yeah, but the real emotional core is a tragedy of Doc
• 45:01
  and beautifully played by Kilmer, outstandingly played.
• 45:06
  And that to me is the real heart of the film, especially as we're coming towards,
• 45:12
  you know, his death. Thank you.
• 45:15
  Yeah, no, I mean, it's, I think it's both their stories, and I do think,
• 45:21
  I do think it's told well. I do think it blends both nicely.
• 45:28
  We got Wyatt, you kind of get the gist of who Wyatt is, and you get the gist of who Doc was and is.
• 45:33
  So I do think they handled it, blend it well, and I do think their friendship
• 45:37
  is really well done here.
• 45:39
  No, it is done well, and I would say, you know, so we're getting,
• 45:43
  you know, sort of the stories of both men.
• 45:45
  But I just, you know, from a personal point of view, I was more invested with
• 45:51
  Doc and I'm much more likable.
• 45:54
  You know, to me, the real star here is Val Kilmer. I mean, obviously,
• 45:57
  you know, I'm a fan of Kurt Russell as well, but just in terms of this film,
• 46:01
  for me, this is Doc's story, you know, very much. Wow.
• 46:05
  So you hate Kurt Russell and Sam Elliott. Sam Elliott and Kurt Russell.
• 46:09
  And you said Bill Pax is terrible. No, I hate you for the shitty talk. Wow.
• 46:13
  Unreal. Unreal. Mr. Fucking Weatherman of Arizona, you know? Oh, wow.
• 46:20
  Monsoon season's coming. Yeah, yeah. Lightning is coming. Whipping up a storm.
• 46:27
  So I do like the South. I remember seeing this in the theater. I didn't catch on to it.
• 46:31
  Doc's dying, and he brings him to Henry Hooker's place, which is played by the
• 46:34
  great Charlton Heston. Yes. Now, this is true.
• 46:38
  Henry Hooker did exist. He was a cattle rancher. Yeah. And he was very good friends with Wyatt.
• 46:43
  So he did take part to help these guys. I don't know if Doc was there,
• 46:46
  but they were together when this all went down. So I'm assuming he was.
• 46:50
  So that's kind of cool that this is true. Yeah. No, no. Yeah.
• 46:56
  But I do like the conversation between him and Doc. And he says,
• 46:59
  I can't beat him, can I? And he just says, no, you can't.
• 47:04
  So he leaves to go fight Ringo because Ringo wants to take him down. Yeah.
• 47:11
  And I love this scene. This scene is so fucking good.
• 47:15
  And again, it goes down to the actors.
• 47:21
  You got Ringo, and you see in the shadows, here comes, you think, Wyatt.
• 47:26
  He goes, well, you decided to show up. He's got this evil grin on his face. But it's Doc.
• 47:31
  But the minute he sees it's Doc, he sees it himself.
• 47:35
  You can see just in his face, that grin quickly goes away. Yep.
• 47:38
  It's brilliantly played by Michael Bane.
• 47:40
  Yeah, and he always says, my fight's not with you, Doc. And Doc says,
• 47:44
  oh, I beg to differ, sir. Yeah.
• 47:48
  By the way, can I just, at that point, I would just like to say,
• 47:50
  I absolutely love Kilmer's accent in this. So, you know that Southern gentleman,
• 47:56
  you know, educated sort of, yeah, it's great.
• 48:02
  And when he shoots him in the head, he's still alive because bullets back then
• 48:07
  probably weren't as, you know. Yeah.
• 48:09
  As impactful as they would be now, blowing your head clean enough.
• 48:12
  So he's stumbling and he's trying to find his footing and draw his gun and he's
• 48:16
  just can't and he's taunting him.
• 48:18
  Come on, come on, draw that gun. it is fucking just it's horrific seeing this
• 48:24
  man die like this but at the same time you're like yeah well that's it you're
• 48:27
  cheering on Doc you know 100% because you know he was supposed to you know he's
• 48:32
  supposed to be back in Charlton Heston's house down you know but you know he makes an appearance,
• 48:39
  anyway for his friend and then the death of Doc Kurt Russell,
• 48:46
  and Falcon their best scene is right here 100% and The way Kurt Russell tears
• 48:51
  up and he says, he knows he's not going to see his friend anymore.
• 48:55
  And Val Kilmer, Doc tells him, go see, love your life. Go see Josephine. Live your life. Yeah.
• 49:00
  Live your life. And this whole thing is Val Kilmer's on an ice of ice during this whole scene.
• 49:06
  Yes. That's how he was shaking and all white.
• 49:09
  Yeah. He says, fuck me, it was terrible. Yeah.
• 49:12
  And, but it's a great scene and it showed the actual bomb these two really had for each other.
• 49:18
  Yeah you see it throughout the film but this closing dialogue between these
• 49:22
  two and the goodbye it's tough to watch and he leaves and hold on for a second and then when Doc.
• 49:30
  Hands up and he looks to see his feet. You know, the whole Cowboys show,
• 49:35
  he's dying with his boots on. Yeah.
• 49:37
  And he's like, oh, I'll be, because he's not dying with his boots on.
• 49:41
  Yeah, and he dies right there. Is this the end of the film here?
• 49:46
  They should have ended the film here. And what they should have done,
• 49:50
  Robert Mitchell comes back, narrates, and for the rest of his life,
• 49:55
  he spent the days with Josephine, which he did.
• 49:57
  They could have narrated that. I would have been fine.
• 50:00
  But I didn't need dancing in the streets at the end. I wanted to puke. Yeah, yeah. It's bad.
• 50:06
  And all of a sudden, it's Christmas, and there's snow and all after it's being
• 50:10
  set in the desert in the Wild West.
• 50:13
  Arizona, during monsoon season, according to the other man's words.
• 50:18
  And aren't they in fucking San Francisco now? Yeah. Is that where they went?
• 50:21
  It really jars. so it does and it ruins it doesn't
• 50:24
  ruin completely but it does dent the powerful
• 50:28
  emotional ending with doc that we've just had next thing they're dancing in
• 50:32
  the streets and i'm just like get the fuck out of here you know what i mean
• 50:35
  this is what am i watching here it should have just ended up with doc's death
• 50:40
  and and why they're walking out you know heartbroken not this nonsense.
• 50:47
  Yeah because that was the tale we were
• 50:49
  told doc and him yes we didn't eat the end of this just
• 50:52
  fucking hell but here and once again no mention of the fucking drug addicted
• 51:01
  the wife it's like you know fuck her i'm dancing in the street with my bitch
• 51:05
  you know my side bitch you know it's like fuck fuck her that junkie fucking.
• 51:13
  I'm the one interested in her so you know yeah it
• 51:16
  doesn't when you think about it it doesn't look
• 51:18
  good on wet you know I know I
• 51:21
  know but it's good Russell man yeah but I don't know maybe that's what mainstream
• 51:27
  audiences they thought that mainstream audiences wanted this happy tied up on
• 51:32
  a bow ending but the real emotional ending the proper emotion is obviously with Doc and Val Kilmer,
• 51:40
  Yeah, yeah, this is either with some of the camp we talked about,
• 51:43
  the romance, it's still a fucking great film. I can literally go back and watch this again.
• 51:48
  I love all the characters. Yeah. And I think it is an eye-candy version of what
• 51:57
  Clint Eastwood would have done. Yes.
• 51:59
  Because what Clint Eastwood did, Clint Eastwood's stuff's more grounded. Yes.
• 52:02
  I would like to have seen a take of Clint Eastwood doing this.
• 52:05
  I mean, he does it kind of with Pale Rider, but I like to see Clay.
• 52:09
  I don't know if I can see it now, but I would like to have seen him do Tombstone. See what it would.
• 52:13
  Yeah. But he likes, he seems to like to do his own Westerns, his own tales.
• 52:17
  Yes, exactly. Based on something, whatever. An original story.
• 52:22
  Yeah, like Pale Rider is pretty much a remake of Shane.
• 52:25
  But I like to have seen his take, but this is a wonderful take.
• 52:28
  I love this fucking take. I think it's very good.
• 52:31
  Definitely, you know, you can't deny that. But on a personal level,
• 52:35
  I don't think it's as good as I remembered it being whenever I first watched
• 52:39
  it years ago. But it is very good.
• 52:42
  Obviously, the romance stuff should have been cut.
• 52:45
  And 100 million percent Val Kilmer stated the show. He's just superb.
• 52:51
  Yeah, him and Michael Biehn's still the show for me. Yeah. But that keeps the
• 52:55
  movie even more of a pleasant surprise because then you got Kurt Russell,
• 52:58
  Sam Elliott, Bill Paxton, the list goes on of other wonderful actors in this. That's a great cast.
• 53:03
  Yeah, that also do their part. And that's rare in these kind of umpsom kind of films.
• 53:08
  But listen, Val sucks, man. I know you can't hear me, but- Rest in peace.
• 53:13
  Yeah. Rest in peace, pal.
• 53:15
  And my condolences, obviously, to his family.
• 53:19
  That's all I've got. Thanks, guys, for joining us. Hey, the new issue,
• 53:24
  El Phantasmgoria, is out.
• 53:27
  Correct. It's a special one about Irish horror.
• 53:31
  Yes. Yes, I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry Leprechaun is involved in this one.
• 53:36
  But I do my review of Oddity in it, so go check it out.
• 53:40
  It's available on the locally Forbidden Planet, local stores around the U.S.,
• 53:45
  and, of course, all over the world on Amazon.
• 53:48
  And if you're in Belfast over Easter, feel free to join us for a signing event
• 53:54
  for it in Forbidden Planet, Belfast, Good Friday, Friday the 18th, from 4pm to 6pm.
• 54:02
  There'll be people involved in the magazine, they're signing copies,
• 54:07
  people like Stephen Jones, Moira McHugh, Linda E.
• 54:10
  Rucker, Malachi Coney, and others.
• 54:13
  So, Ian MacDonald, Joe Zebony, yep, check it out.
• 54:17
  Yeah. I'd be there, but I'll be just a distraction for everyone else.
• 54:22
  And I kept me signing hundreds of thousands of autographs and taking selfies
• 54:25
  all day. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Right.
• 54:29
  Yeah. All right, guys. Next up is the Bone Collector. Give us a shout.
• 54:33
  It's CitizenFrame underscore podcast on Instagram and of course, Facebook.
• 54:36
  We'll wrap this one up and we'll see y'all later. Bye. Don't put it.
• 54:45
  Music.