Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Charles Manson heads to hell! Youngest 'Family' member tells her story

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Charles Manson heads to hell! Youngest 'Family' member tells her story · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
0:08
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Is Charlie Manson crazy whatever that means. Sure,
0:14
Speaker 1: he's crazy as a man, as a hatter, what differences
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Speaker 1: in me? And I started fanning and I turned into
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Speaker 1: the animals? You know, I just did you tell the
0:24
Speaker 1: women to do their witchy things? I said, if you're
0:27
Speaker 1: going to do something, leave something witchy, just like I
0:30
Speaker 1: would tell you. If you're going to do something, do
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Speaker 1: it with and leave something. You leave a sign to
0:35
Speaker 1: let the world know that you would have a good
0:37
Speaker 1: game right now. Charles Nelson, the leader of the Killer Cult,
0:44
Speaker 1: is dead and his stay in the penitentiary was just
0:48
Speaker 1: a pit stop to h e Double l a former
0:52
Speaker 1: convicted felon. He brings together dozens of young people, dozens
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Speaker 1: of let me just say, misfits, people that felt they
1:02
Speaker 1: were misfits anyway, whether they were or not. He brought
1:05
Speaker 1: them all together as a family. They all settled in together,
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Speaker 1: kind of commune style, at a ranch near l A.
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Speaker 1: But then for two nights he instructs his followers to
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Speaker 1: go on a murder spree and they do horrific murders.
1:29
Speaker 1: Some crime scenes unlike anything police had ever seen before.
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Speaker 1: Words written on the walls and the victims blood, dead
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Speaker 1: bodies strown through fancy homes in the l A area.
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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
1:48
Speaker 1: being with us right now. Joining me a very special guest,
1:52
Speaker 1: in fact, two of them, Diane Lake, the author of
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Speaker 1: Member of the Family, a new book out now, the
2:02
Speaker 1: youngest member of the Charles Manson family. She later helped
2:08
Speaker 1: send him to jail. Also joining me, the author of
2:12
Speaker 1: Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate Family's account of stardom, the
2:15
Speaker 1: Manson murders, and a Crusade for Justice. A Lisa with
2:19
Speaker 1: us along with Karen Smith, major crimes investigator, and Alan
2:24
Speaker 1: the Dupe dup joining me from l A thank you
2:27
Speaker 1: all for being with us. First to Diane Lake, author
2:30
Speaker 1: of Member of the Family, Diane, when you hear it
2:34
Speaker 1: laid out so coldly? Did this former convict managed to
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Speaker 1: bring together a band of self professed misfits as a
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Speaker 1: family who then go on a deadly murder spree? What
2:50
Speaker 1: was it about Charles Manson that attracted you? What about
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Speaker 1: him was so compelling? He was very charismatic, um he
3:00
Speaker 1: had the ability to become whoever it was that you
3:05
Speaker 1: needed in your life. What do you mean by that?
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Speaker 1: I felt alone. I didn't feel like I fit in
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Speaker 1: with the counterculture groups that I'd been introduced to previously.
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Speaker 1: And he welcomed me, and the girls welcomed me. And
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Speaker 1: it was a He was a musician, primarily singing songs
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Speaker 1: that he'd written, and he was playful and and really
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Speaker 1: very loving in the beginning with me. Is the youngest
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Speaker 1: member of the Manson family. Her name is Diane Lake,
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Speaker 1: and she's the author of a brand new book, Member
3:45
Speaker 1: of the Family. Now, Diane, you met Charles Manson at
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Speaker 1: just fourteen years old, and we're increasingly mystified and intrigued
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Speaker 1: and captivated with him. How old was he when you
4:00
Speaker 1: met him at age fourteen? I believe he was thirty four. Wow, Okay,
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Speaker 1: he's thirty four. You're fourteen. Explain to me when you
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Speaker 1: say playful and loving, what do you mean by that?
4:14
Speaker 1: He you know, tells all your hair, make jokes, make
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Speaker 1: funny faces. Um. He had a way of just making
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Speaker 1: you feel like you were the only one that he loved.
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Speaker 1: The only one that he loved was he having sex
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Speaker 1: with different women in the group yes, we'll see a
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Speaker 1: father figure or a boyfriend figure to you at age fourteen,
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Speaker 1: I wanted to marry him. Well, you know what that's
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Speaker 1: That's not uncommon for a fourteen year old girl to
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Speaker 1: become captivated by some guy she meets. When I say older,
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Speaker 1: I would usually mean like fifteen, not thirty four. But
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Speaker 1: when you say you wanted to marry him, did he
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Speaker 1: say anything to make you believe that could happen? You know,
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Speaker 1: did he sleep with you? I mean as in the
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Speaker 1: sex way, not the snoring way. When you look back
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Speaker 1: on the fact that a thirty or four year old
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Speaker 1: man had sex with a fourteen year old girl who
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Speaker 1: was totally smitten with him, how does that make you feel?
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Speaker 1: Not good? Diane? I agree with you, and I, like
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Speaker 1: many many women, you look back in situations and things
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Speaker 1: that happened, and at the time it's too confusing, frankly
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Speaker 1: to be angry or to really know what's happening. But
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Speaker 1: then as you grow up and you mature and you
5:48
Speaker 1: look back that feeling of anger and kind of a
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Speaker 1: helpless feeling because you were so naive at the time,
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Speaker 1: A real babe in the woods. It's just a real
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Speaker 1: feeling of resentment and anger and also resignation. Did you
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Speaker 1: ever feel like it was your fault that you had
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Speaker 1: sex with Charles Manson when you were just fourteen? Most
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Speaker 1: definitely I took responsibility for what happened to me for
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Speaker 1: a long time. You know, Diane, if you were here
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Speaker 1: with me right now in the studio with me, I've
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Speaker 1: just got chills on my arms and my legs because
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Speaker 1: I know how you feel, and so many women know
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Speaker 1: how you feel. At the time when you're fourteen years
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Speaker 1: old and you're going along with it. At the time,
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Speaker 1: you think, oh, okay, this is fine. But when you
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Speaker 1: look back and you realize what happened to you, it's
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Speaker 1: it's very upsetting. And to hear you say the words
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Speaker 1: not good, that's I'm going to always remember those two words,
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Speaker 1: Diane Lake, not good, because sometimes they're just are not
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Speaker 1: words the right words to explain how you feel looking
7:21
Speaker 1: back on being a crime victim. Diane Lake is with
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Speaker 1: me the author of a Member of the Family. It's
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Speaker 1: a brand new book and it describes her experience falling
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Speaker 1: under Charles Manson's spell. How eventually, after a very long battle,
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Speaker 1: including being institutionalized, working through it and even now the
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Speaker 1: feelings she has about what happened to her. It's it's
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Speaker 1: an incredible, incredible book. When you say you quote fell
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Speaker 1: under his spell, I know what that means to me,
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Speaker 1: But what does it mean to you, Diane? Like he
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Speaker 1: fell under his spell? He, as I said, was um
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Speaker 1: very charismatic, um, playful, uh, seemingly intelligent. And the girls,
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Speaker 1: the other girls, had such a devotion for him. It
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Speaker 1: was easy and and being not with my family and
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Speaker 1: not feeling like I really belonged with the life that
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Speaker 1: they had chosen just made me. And and that his family,
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Speaker 1: he and his family of girls made me feel so
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Speaker 1: welcomed and part of them. That was the that was
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Speaker 1: the magic for me. Can I ask how did the
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Speaker 1: other as you call them girls feel about him sleeping
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Speaker 1: with all of them? There was enough love to go around,
9:00
Speaker 1: we all um. I think at times there was like, oh,
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Speaker 1: does he love her better than me? But for the
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Speaker 1: most part, no, we loved We loved him, and we
9:13
Speaker 1: loved each other. I'm just pausing to digest all that
9:18
Speaker 1: you know, Alan deep believe it or not. There are
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Speaker 1: times that I'm not speaking, just trying to to take
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Speaker 1: in what you're saying and how this must have felt
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Speaker 1: as as a fourteen year old girl. What about your
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Speaker 1: real family, your biological family now or then? Well, then,
9:37
Speaker 1: I know that they gave you a note. I guess
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Speaker 1: you would call your mom and dad hippies for lack
9:42
Speaker 1: of a better term. Gave you a note granting you
9:45
Speaker 1: permission to leave them. How did that happen? I was
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Speaker 1: on an acid trip, not with Charlie I didn't know him,
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Speaker 1: but with another family and my own family as well,
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Speaker 1: and I felt that I heard God's voice telling me
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Speaker 1: it was time to leave home. So I had a
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Speaker 1: conversation with my parents about it. And we were living
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Speaker 1: with another couple with children at that time, and they
10:13
Speaker 1: had invited me to stay with them. So my parents
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Speaker 1: wrote me a little note give basically giving me my emancipation.
10:24
Speaker 1: And I think there was a legal document that could
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Speaker 1: be it could have been created giving me emancipation as
10:30
Speaker 1: a minor. But this was just a handwritten note. You
10:34
Speaker 1: know that we did on the coffee table, and I
10:37
Speaker 1: carried it around in my pocket for a few years
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Speaker 1: and I never used it. I never had to use it.
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Speaker 1: Did you ever miss your parents during your time away
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Speaker 1: from them? There were times that I that I did,
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Speaker 1: but I didn't feel like I belonged in the commune
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Speaker 1: that they were living in. Did they know? Did your
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Speaker 1: mom and dad know people were giving you acid? Yes,
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Speaker 1: my very My first asset trip was taken in my
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Speaker 1: living room before we dropped out, and had been provided
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Speaker 1: to me and my best friends by my dad. Why, Diane, like,
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Speaker 1: why would your dad give you asset as a little girl?
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Speaker 1: I don't think he saw me as a little girl.
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Speaker 1: And this was the beginning of the counter culture, you know,
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Speaker 1: the summer of sixty seven, and my parents were caught
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Speaker 1: up in the whole Timothy Leary, Alan Ginsburg, Jack Heroac,
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Speaker 1: the whole, the whole culture counterculture movement. They really believed
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Speaker 1: that this was a way, a new way to live,
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Speaker 1: trusting God, not being you know, being enlightened with drugs, hallucinogenics,
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Speaker 1: and you know, living in a communal situation. Can I
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Speaker 1: ask you how they got the idea that trusting God,
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Speaker 1: that God would want them to send their fourteen year
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Speaker 1: old daughter on an acid trip. How how does that translate?
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Speaker 1: And I'm not judging, I'm curious because I don't understand it. Well,
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Speaker 1: they met this commune called the Oracle. They Also the
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Speaker 1: Oracle got started in San Francisco, you know, it's an
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Speaker 1: underground newspaper, and then l A started one, and my
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Speaker 1: father got involved with them because he wanted to do
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Speaker 1: He was an artist and he wanted to do some
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Speaker 1: of their artwork, so he got involved with them. But
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Speaker 1: the whole Um Oracle commune was all about you know, love, sex,
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Speaker 1: that it was and that it was okay even you know,
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Speaker 1: for children. So they just kind of got all caught
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Speaker 1: up in that mindset. What was life like with the
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Speaker 1: Manson family? What would a typical day be for a
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Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl essentially living in a sex relationship
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Speaker 1: with a thirty or four year old man. Charles Manson,
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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time, you know, um just
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Speaker 1: outside in nature enjoying and I did. I did enjoy
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Speaker 1: living at Spawn Ranch um beautiful hills and trees and
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Speaker 1: rocks and little streams, and I remember spending a lot
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Speaker 1: of time out in nature. You know, I didn't have
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Speaker 1: sex every day. It was not it was not that
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Speaker 1: UM concentrated or that that wasn't the total focus. We
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Speaker 1: would prepare meals. UM got food from various locations, including
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Speaker 1: the dumpsters of the behind grocery stores. Found some great
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Speaker 1: stuff that you know, the grocery stores were throwing out
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Speaker 1: and um. Then you know, there were a couple of
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Speaker 1: babies that came along, and taking care of the babies,
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Speaker 1: playing with them, and taking care of George, helping around
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Speaker 1: the ranch, um and cleaning, cleaning, making things nice, making
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Speaker 1: things um organized. I was kind of an organizer. And
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Speaker 1: then in the evening we would sit around Charlie and
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Speaker 1: either he would you know, be philosophizing or instructing, or
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Speaker 1: playing music, usually playing music and we would sing along.
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Speaker 1: What would Charles Manson bay philosophizing and instructing about about
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Speaker 1: life and about you know, getting rid of your inhibitions
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Speaker 1: and basically, you know, forget what your parents taught you
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Speaker 1: some of the same formats or premises that my own
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Speaker 1: you know, father had bought into, which was you know,
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Speaker 1: getting rid of materialism out of your life and and
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Speaker 1: just living from in the here and the now. Did
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Speaker 1: your parents have any idea that you were living with
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Speaker 1: Charles Manson? Yes, did they have any idea? He was
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Speaker 1: a convicted felon at that time. You know when you
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Speaker 1: say we didn't have sex every day, well, you know, Diane,
15:22
Speaker 1: most fourteen year old girls don't have sex ever, because
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Speaker 1: it's actually statutory rape. So to hear you say that,
15:33
Speaker 1: I just think of you as a fourteen year old
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Speaker 1: girl in that world. What do you think all the
15:40
Speaker 1: acid trips effect had on you? Acid trips, for the
15:46
Speaker 1: most part, for me, were good. I mean they were
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Speaker 1: good experiences. I had a few bad trips, but considering
15:54
Speaker 1: how many times I did take acid, I really did
16:00
Speaker 1: not have that many, um what I would call a
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Speaker 1: bad trip. So mostly it would just you know, open
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Speaker 1: your mind to um what a perfect world might be.
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Speaker 1: And I know that it doesn't sound right when I
16:16
Speaker 1: say it, it's it's it's craziness, but um, I have
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Speaker 1: three children, and that not even preteen. But those early
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Speaker 1: those the early teen years, you think you're an adult.
16:32
Speaker 1: You don't think of yourself as a child. Well, what
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Speaker 1: made you decide that you wanted to leave Charles Manson
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Speaker 1: in the family. I was there when we were at
16:43
Speaker 1: the last arrest. What do you mean I didn't leave him? Okay,
16:47
Speaker 1: I thought you helped put him behind bars. I did,
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Speaker 1: so you had to leave him at some point? Right?
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Speaker 1: Was that against your will? No? I was. I was
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Speaker 1: put in jail and after you know, a few months
17:00
Speaker 1: of good food and no drugs, and you know, reading
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Speaker 1: and overhearing people say those four girls are never going
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Speaker 1: to make it. And before I went into the grand jury,
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Speaker 1: the bailiff asked me my name, and I told him
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Speaker 1: I'm Diane Lake. I'm sixteen, and I want my mommy.
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Speaker 1: So I had really come to the conclusion that I
17:29
Speaker 1: had made a big mistake. I didn't belong here, and
17:31
Speaker 1: I wanted out. Why did you want out? That was
17:35
Speaker 1: when I began, you know, to tell the truth, to
17:39
Speaker 1: tell the authorities what I had seen, you know, what
17:42
Speaker 1: I had heard. I I didn't want to live in
17:47
Speaker 1: this situation anymore. I you know, woke up to the
17:51
Speaker 1: fact that it was wrong. What was your part? And
17:54
Speaker 1: sending Manson to jail, I you know, testified that his
18:00
Speaker 1: escalating behavior about the White album about you know, Helter Skelter,
18:08
Speaker 1: and I testified what other people had told me that
18:11
Speaker 1: he had asked them to do. What did he ask
18:14
Speaker 1: you to do? He didn't ask me to do anything.
18:18
Speaker 1: Other people told me what he asked them to do.
18:22
Speaker 1: I understand what did he ask them to do? Basically,
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Speaker 1: to start Helter Skelter to go and do something witchy
18:31
Speaker 1: in these different homes to start the helter Skelter rice war.
18:38
Speaker 1: That's that was the I don't know if he used
18:40
Speaker 1: those words, but that was that was Later on I
18:45
Speaker 1: realized that that was the intent. So by going and
18:50
Speaker 1: murdering people in that l A, California area and surrounding area,
18:57
Speaker 1: how was that supposed to start a race war? I
19:03
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean at Bobby both Lay had
19:07
Speaker 1: been arrested for um killing Gary Hindman. I mean, this
19:14
Speaker 1: is this is looking back and you're trying to figure out,
19:18
Speaker 1: you know, what happened and why. It's like there's some
19:24
Speaker 1: um idea that perhaps they wanted to make it look
19:29
Speaker 1: like helter Skelter had started because of what happened to
19:36
Speaker 1: Gary Hindman, that they were going to um do more
19:41
Speaker 1: of the same. And look, because Charlie had been talking
19:46
Speaker 1: about a race war for a long time, and he'd
19:50
Speaker 1: been hearing about a race war for a long time
19:54
Speaker 1: during his in his various incarcerations and um being in
20:01
Speaker 1: reform school, he'd been hearing this in court. And you
20:07
Speaker 1: saw Charles Manson, how did he appear to you? How
20:13
Speaker 1: did that make you feel? I was I was very
20:18
Speaker 1: nervous about um testifying in front of him, because I
20:23
Speaker 1: knew that he would be unhappy with me, and I
20:28
Speaker 1: was concerned that I wouldn't be able to look him
20:34
Speaker 1: in the eye because I would remember the good times.
20:41
Speaker 1: But one of the very first questions he showed me
20:46
Speaker 1: that it was all about him. What do you mean?
20:51
Speaker 1: One of the questions that they asked me was I
20:53
Speaker 1: in love with Charles Manson? And I said I guess so,
20:57
Speaker 1: and he immediately chimed in, don't put it all on
21:03
Speaker 1: Mr Manson. She loved everybody, and I could see that
21:11
Speaker 1: he again, he was playing the whole courtroom, and I
21:22
Speaker 1: realized that he really didn't He didn't love me, and
21:30
Speaker 1: the spell was broken with me. Is Diane like the
21:34
Speaker 1: author of a brand new book? Member of the Family.
21:39
Speaker 1: Diane was the youngest member of the Charles Manson so
21:44
Speaker 1: called family. After leaving the family, she actually had to
21:49
Speaker 1: be institutionalized in order to ultimately break free of the
21:55
Speaker 1: life with Charles Manson and the drugs and the life style.
22:01
Speaker 1: She went on to help the state put Charles Manson
22:07
Speaker 1: behind bars. Today with Diane Lake, Karen Smith and Alicia's
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Speaker 1: keyword grace. We're ready to help with me. Is Diane Lake,
24:56
Speaker 1: author of a brand new book. Member of the Family.
24:58
Speaker 1: She is the youngest member of the Charles Manson family
25:03
Speaker 1: that went on to commit mass murder. Karen Smith expert
25:08
Speaker 1: in her field, major crime scene investigator and Elsa's Stateman,
25:11
Speaker 1: author of Restless Souls, The Sharon Tate Family account of stardom,
25:16
Speaker 1: the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice. I want
25:19
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to Charles Manson speaking. I'm
25:24
Speaker 1: not a violent human being. Did you tell the women
25:27
Speaker 1: to do their witchy things? I said, if you're going
25:30
Speaker 1: to do something, leave something witchy, just like I would
25:35
Speaker 1: tell you. If you're going to do something, do it
25:38
Speaker 1: well and leave something witchy. Leave a sign to let
25:42
Speaker 1: the world know that you were there. Have a good day.
25:45
Speaker 1: Did you tell them which words? No, pig helter skelter rise.
25:51
Speaker 1: It's not my vocabulary, that's not my generation. I keep
25:55
Speaker 1: telling you that. In the car on the way to
25:59
Speaker 1: the lot Bianca house, you said, this time, make sure
26:04
Speaker 1: they're not scared like last night. Oh no, it may
26:09
Speaker 1: have been something like this. Uh yeah that I remember
26:14
Speaker 1: something like that, but I don't remember exactly the right words.
26:17
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly the right words. But that's that's
26:20
Speaker 1: a simple that's a simple philosophy from China. That's a
26:23
Speaker 1: Chinese philosophy. You know, if if you're gonna, if you're
26:27
Speaker 1: gonna go to war and you're fighting your enemy and
26:31
Speaker 1: you kill him when he's afraid, you know, it's a
26:34
Speaker 1: bad omen it's bad. It's bad. So you try to
26:39
Speaker 1: absorb the fear, which I think the Hindus use that
26:42
Speaker 1: word karma to balance a karma. To Elsa Stateman, author
26:48
Speaker 1: of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate Family account of startup
26:51
Speaker 1: Manson murders, and Crusade for Justice at Lisa, we have
26:55
Speaker 1: both been listening. I've been transfixed listening to Diane Lake
26:59
Speaker 1: describe what life was like as the youngest female member
27:05
Speaker 1: of the Manson family, and to hear her talk, I
27:10
Speaker 1: can get a glimpse of life inside that so called
27:16
Speaker 1: family and how everything that I think is wrong, so
27:20
Speaker 1: many things that I think is wrong was normal. Giving
27:26
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old child acid that forever can alter
27:31
Speaker 1: your brain, forever, can alter your psyche for the rest
27:35
Speaker 1: of your life. Having full blown sex between a thirty
27:41
Speaker 1: four year old man and a fourteen year old girl,
27:43
Speaker 1: no school, just wandering around, having the child, help gather
27:49
Speaker 1: food from dumpsters and prepare food and and basically make
27:54
Speaker 1: it a harem for Charles Manson to sit around in
27:58
Speaker 1: Struma's guitar and hype hot size at night. It just
28:05
Speaker 1: and then to hear her say, Elisa, she felt like
28:10
Speaker 1: it was her fault, and I get it. That's really
28:14
Speaker 1: how so many assault victims feel. Elsa's statement, author of
28:20
Speaker 1: Restless Souls. I want to hear your thoughts on listening
28:24
Speaker 1: as you were listening to Diane late along with me.
28:27
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, it's heartbreaking to listen to Diane because
28:32
Speaker 1: you know, she is the story of every abused child,
28:36
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and Manson took advantage of that. I
28:39
Speaker 1: think that what's really amazing about Diana, and and to
28:44
Speaker 1: emphasize this is that even though she was there and
28:47
Speaker 1: under Manson's spell, she and she says this in a book,
28:51
Speaker 1: she knew the difference between right and wrong. She knew
28:53
Speaker 1: that she was an individual. And I think it speaks
28:57
Speaker 1: volumes to those who were in prison and those who aren't.
29:00
Speaker 1: You had this fourteen year old girl who was more
29:02
Speaker 1: impressionable than anybody who was abused by him, More than
29:07
Speaker 1: anybody she was hit by him, hung upside down by him,
29:11
Speaker 1: and by all means, believed him to be Christ in
29:16
Speaker 1: her words, and yet she didn't murder. And I think
29:23
Speaker 1: that that speaks volumes about those who did murder Um.
29:28
Speaker 1: I think that it is an amazing story that Diane
29:32
Speaker 1: came out on top of this um and not only
29:35
Speaker 1: came out on top of it, but was you know,
29:37
Speaker 1: tad mount to the prosecution star witness in helping to
29:43
Speaker 1: put them behind bars. That took an incredible amount of
29:46
Speaker 1: courage for the sixteen year old at the time to
29:49
Speaker 1: come against somebody who she knew could retire tallyate who
29:54
Speaker 1: she loved and yet feared. And it's it's truly an
29:59
Speaker 1: amazing yet heartbreaking story. But you know, going back to
30:04
Speaker 1: what I was what I was saying, it just emphasizes
30:08
Speaker 1: why those who killed for Manson should stay where they are.
30:13
Speaker 1: They were no less impressionable than Diane was, and yet
30:19
Speaker 1: they had it in them to kill. And Manson knew
30:22
Speaker 1: who had it in them to kill and who didn't.
30:24
Speaker 1: There's a reason Diane didn't go out on those nights
30:28
Speaker 1: because Manson knew she didn't have it in her. She
30:31
Speaker 1: was a decent human being, on the inside. She wasn't
30:35
Speaker 1: a savage killer like Susan Atkins, Patricia Crome Winkle, Leslie
30:39
Speaker 1: Van Houghton, Charles Watson Manson knew those people would kill
30:44
Speaker 1: and they did. Diane, like author a member of the family,
30:47
Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your response to Atlasa Statn's comment, Well,
30:53
Speaker 1: she really painted painted quite the picture. And not that
30:57
Speaker 1: it's not true, it's just that it's really hard to
31:02
Speaker 1: um here that um viewpoint. Why what is what is
31:10
Speaker 1: hard about it? And I know that's the viewpoint that
31:14
Speaker 1: you know, I as if I had been mature, would
31:19
Speaker 1: have seen, would have probably seen, but I didn't, you know,
31:24
Speaker 1: And it's really hard to look at yourself as a victim.
31:28
Speaker 1: And I really did not see myself as a victim
31:31
Speaker 1: until fairly recently, Diane. Like when you hear Alissa describe
31:38
Speaker 1: being hung upside down and hit, what happened? He threatened
31:43
Speaker 1: to hang me upside down. He never actually did hang
31:47
Speaker 1: me upside down, but he did threaten to hang me
31:50
Speaker 1: upside down and skin me alive. And why I wasn't
31:54
Speaker 1: paying attention. We were at we were in the desert.
31:58
Speaker 1: You know, these crimes have been committed, and he demanded
32:04
Speaker 1: our undivided attention, and I really, uh, I think I
32:11
Speaker 1: had really lost connection with myself and with my situation. Well,
32:20
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a fourteen year old girl being fed
32:23
Speaker 1: LSD acid and having sex with a grown man, and
32:26
Speaker 1: you're out in the middle of the desert with no family,
32:28
Speaker 1: your parents to support you. I can understand being disconnected.
32:33
Speaker 1: Did you think when he told you can hang you
32:35
Speaker 1: upside down and skin you alive? Did you believe him
32:39
Speaker 1: at that point? I certainly did. You were not asked
32:44
Speaker 1: to go and commit murder. You heard the others talking
32:47
Speaker 1: about it. Would you have gone if he had told
32:50
Speaker 1: you to? I don't think so. I would have. I
32:55
Speaker 1: feel that I would. I I wouldn't. I would not
32:59
Speaker 1: have been able to do that. And like Alisa said,
33:03
Speaker 1: I don't think I was asked because I think he
33:07
Speaker 1: knew that. When you heard the others come back and
33:10
Speaker 1: talking about the killings, what what was their attitude their
33:15
Speaker 1: demeanor towards what they had done. I didn't hear about
33:19
Speaker 1: it from the girls until we were in the desert,
33:24
Speaker 1: but they were almost like bragging. That's that's how I
33:29
Speaker 1: remember them telling me. It was. They were kind of
33:32
Speaker 1: like morbidly gleeful about it in what way? What did
33:38
Speaker 1: they say? It's just like, oh and we did you know,
33:41
Speaker 1: when we did this, and we did that and did what.
33:45
Speaker 1: You know. At first, I think one of the girls
33:47
Speaker 1: told me that they they you know, they they stabbed
33:53
Speaker 1: somebody and and first you know, and then it became
33:56
Speaker 1: then it was fun. I don't know, it's just what,
34:00
Speaker 1: you know. The their demeanor, more than what they said,
34:06
Speaker 1: is the memory that I have, and that they were,
34:12
Speaker 1: you know, they were like proud to have done this.
34:16
Speaker 1: You know what, at that time, you were only four
34:19
Speaker 1: years older than my little twins are, and I cannot
34:23
Speaker 1: imagine them out in a desert with Charles Manson listening
34:28
Speaker 1: to these people acting worse than animals, gleeful over what
34:35
Speaker 1: they had done with me. Is Karen Smith, crime scene investigator,
34:40
Speaker 1: forensics expert. Karen, thank you for being with us the
34:45
Speaker 1: reality of the murder scenes. What happened, Karen Smith, They
34:53
Speaker 1: were horrific um. The first murder scene took place on
34:59
Speaker 1: Clo Drive on August date, and at that scene, essentially
35:05
Speaker 1: they report five people were killed, but essentially it was
35:07
Speaker 1: six because Sharon Tate was almost to term with her pregnancy,
35:13
Speaker 1: and at that time Stephen Parent, Abigail Folgier, wootech for Kowski, J. C. Bring,
35:20
Speaker 1: Sharon Tate and her unborn child were all murdered. They
35:25
Speaker 1: were shot, stabbed. There was evidence of strangulation writing on
35:30
Speaker 1: the walls and the victim's blood. There was blunt force
35:33
Speaker 1: trauma and blood from one end of that house to
35:36
Speaker 1: the other end, out into the front yard. On the
35:38
Speaker 1: next night were the La Bianca murders, where Leno la
35:42
Speaker 1: Bianca was stabbed twelve times with a bayonet, fork was
35:47
Speaker 1: left in his neck and the word war was carved
35:49
Speaker 1: into his chest, and his wife Rosemary, was stabbed forty
35:53
Speaker 1: one times. I've worked a lot of homicides, but I
35:58
Speaker 1: have never seen crime scene photos to this extent in
36:01
Speaker 1: my life. I mean, the thought of plunging a fork
36:06
Speaker 1: into a human, I just it's hard for me to
36:14
Speaker 1: even take it in. Diane Lake, the author of new
36:20
Speaker 1: book Member of the Family. When you hear the stark
36:24
Speaker 1: reality of the martyrs, innocent people, a woman nine months pregnant,
36:30
Speaker 1: carved up with a knife, words like pig and war
36:35
Speaker 1: written in blood on the walls, and you were in
36:40
Speaker 1: the middle of these people, how did you survive you
36:44
Speaker 1: were a little girl, Diane. I by the grace of God,
36:50
Speaker 1: that's all. And that's part of the reason I'm writing
36:53
Speaker 1: this book or I wrote this book, is because it
36:57
Speaker 1: is an amazing story. And I give all the glory
36:59
Speaker 1: to God forgetting me through with my wits still attached. Um.
37:08
Speaker 1: You know, when I hear the description, I'm just I'm
37:12
Speaker 1: just absolutely horrified. I've got tears in my eyes. It's
37:19
Speaker 1: just I just can't imagine being on either end. And
37:24
Speaker 1: I I have so much compassion for the families because
37:34
Speaker 1: not only was it bad to start with, but they
37:36
Speaker 1: have to relive this every time one of these people
37:40
Speaker 1: come up for parole, they have to it has to
37:44
Speaker 1: be relived and gone over again. And from my understanding,
37:47
Speaker 1: I've never been to parole hearing, but they are eight
37:52
Speaker 1: to ten hours long. Melissa's Stateman, author of Restless Souls,
37:57
Speaker 1: to Share and Tape, Families, Account and Stardom, The Manson
38:00
Speaker 1: Murders and a Crusade for Justice. What do you know
38:06
Speaker 1: of the crime scenes and what happened to Sharon Tate
38:10
Speaker 1: and the other victims? Well, you know, Eden said it
38:14
Speaker 1: was one of the most horrific crime scenes. I think
38:17
Speaker 1: in the history of crime scenes, you had Sharon Tate
38:21
Speaker 1: who was strung up by a rope, stabbed sixteen times.
38:24
Speaker 1: You have Voytech Pokosky who was stabbed fifty one times,
38:27
Speaker 1: beating over the head thirteen times and shot twice. Abigail
38:30
Speaker 1: Folger was chased down, tackled by Britrish crime way go On,
38:34
Speaker 1: stabbed twenty one times. J C. Bring was shot one,
38:37
Speaker 1: stabbed seven times, and Stephen Parent was shot four times. Uh.
38:42
Speaker 1: You know, the following night, as as Karen said, Rosemary
38:45
Speaker 1: and Leno law Bianca, you know, in the supposed sanctity
38:49
Speaker 1: of their own home, were killed in the most brutal way.
38:53
Speaker 1: They had Leno la Bianca who was stabbed the multiple
38:56
Speaker 1: times with a knife thrust through his throat and a
39:00
Speaker 1: fork with the word war carved into his into his abdomen,
39:04
Speaker 1: and and Rosemary brot Bianca stabbed forty one times. And
39:09
Speaker 1: you know, I think that the horror of this is
39:13
Speaker 1: so uh multiplied by the fact that they were in
39:17
Speaker 1: the supposed sanctity of their own home. You know, this
39:21
Speaker 1: was a rampage. Then I don't think it gets any
39:24
Speaker 1: more horrific or scary than that. And the fact that
39:28
Speaker 1: these people were able to. You know, you have to
39:31
Speaker 1: and I think that you know this Nancy stabbing is
39:34
Speaker 1: a very personal crime. You're up close, you're holding them down,
39:39
Speaker 1: to look these people in the eye as they were
39:42
Speaker 1: doing it, and and the overkill that was used to
39:46
Speaker 1: look a pregnant woman in the eye and tell her,
39:49
Speaker 1: as Susan Atkins did, look bitch, I don't have any
39:51
Speaker 1: mercy for you. You're gonna die and you better be ready.
39:55
Speaker 1: And then to stab her in the heart, you know,
39:57
Speaker 1: three times as she's gleeting for the life of her baby.
40:01
Speaker 1: Let me live, let me have my baby, and you
40:03
Speaker 1: can kill me anyway you want, you know. I think
40:06
Speaker 1: what what is lost over the years is the word
40:09
Speaker 1: that these victims went through, and the screams and the
40:12
Speaker 1: pleas to live, you know, are all but forgotten. And
40:18
Speaker 1: when you put yourself as a family member does, as
40:20
Speaker 1: Diane was saying in their Pearl hearings, and you have
40:22
Speaker 1: to hear these details over and over, you know, for
40:26
Speaker 1: the victims of these of the families who sit and
40:29
Speaker 1: listen to it, they're not hearing the details. They're hearing
40:31
Speaker 1: their loved ones screaming. They're wondering about the fear that
40:36
Speaker 1: their loved ones went through in their last moments of life,
40:39
Speaker 1: and that I think is the most horrible part of
40:43
Speaker 1: these Pearl hearings. And you know, let's remember back to
40:49
Speaker 1: when Doris Tate was doing this. These Pearl hearings were
40:51
Speaker 1: every year. And now you know, through through new laws,
40:57
Speaker 1: you can do it up to fifteen years. But let's
40:59
Speaker 1: remember back to when this all started. They were going
41:01
Speaker 1: to a mirror after year after year and reliving this
41:06
Speaker 1: or that their left ones went through. Well, I've got
41:08
Speaker 1: to tell you unless some one I can't. I can't
41:11
Speaker 1: stand to think back, Oh, my fiance's murder. I don't
41:15
Speaker 1: like to think about it. I don't like people to
41:17
Speaker 1: bring it up to me. If I bring it up,
41:19
Speaker 1: that's one thing I'm prepared mentally to talk about it.
41:23
Speaker 1: But it makes me think about what he went through.
41:26
Speaker 1: And while it was horrible, it's nothing compared to a
41:30
Speaker 1: pregnant mother begging for the life of her child. Today
41:35
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Speaker 1: you for being our sponsor today. Diane Lake, author of
43:18
Speaker 1: Member of the Family, How does your family, your your children,
43:25
Speaker 1: your nuclear family feel about you writing the book and
43:30
Speaker 1: what they have learned? Uh, there's mixed feelings. For the
43:35
Speaker 1: most part, I have the support of my children and
43:40
Speaker 1: my mother, my fiancee um and certainly my church family,
43:48
Speaker 1: my pastor what do you mean by the most part.
43:52
Speaker 1: For the most part, there's a few people in my
43:54
Speaker 1: family that are are upset with me. Why because that
44:00
Speaker 1: reflects badly on my mother. They should be praising God.
44:03
Speaker 1: You're alive and and frankly, if it weren't for your
44:08
Speaker 1: mother and father, you would not have been in that predicament.
44:14
Speaker 1: And I'm not, okay, you know what I am judging.
44:17
Speaker 1: I'm not judging you because you were a child and
44:21
Speaker 1: it is a miracle a divine miracle. I believe that
44:25
Speaker 1: you survived and had to live through being institutionalized. What
44:30
Speaker 1: was that like being in an institution to get your
44:34
Speaker 1: mind straight? After all you went through saved my life?
44:39
Speaker 1: That was that? I that was a wonderful experience. It
44:44
Speaker 1: really was, and it is what you had to do
44:49
Speaker 1: to survive well. I was in a protected environment. I
44:54
Speaker 1: learned how to play the fluid. I went back to school.
44:57
Speaker 1: I had um all these loving uh psychologists and psychiatrists
45:04
Speaker 1: and nurses, you know, and technicians. I'm so grateful that
45:09
Speaker 1: was there forrateful for them too. When they say it
45:13
Speaker 1: reflects badly on your mother, are your mother and dad?
45:17
Speaker 1: Mom and dad still alive. My father passed away fifteen
45:21
Speaker 1: years ago. What what did they have to say for
45:25
Speaker 1: themselves about allowing you to be in that situation? They
45:31
Speaker 1: they regret it. My my father said, we threw the
45:37
Speaker 1: baby out with the bath water. Dave Apaulo, you know,
45:43
Speaker 1: he apologized. My mother has a you know, apologized um.
45:48
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, they were they were caught
45:51
Speaker 1: up in the you know, this enlightenment, this counterculture movement.
46:00
Speaker 1: Diane Lake, I hear you even now, protecting your mom
46:07
Speaker 1: and dad for literally throwing you to the wolves. And
46:13
Speaker 1: you know what that is, unconditional love. It is I
46:19
Speaker 1: know you don't want to see that they did wrong
46:23
Speaker 1: by you. They didn't intend to, and I just am
46:27
Speaker 1: grateful you're here today to speak with me. Your book
46:32
Speaker 1: is incredible. If I could change what happened to you,
46:36
Speaker 1: I would, But for now I'm going to pray for
46:40
Speaker 1: peace and healing and everything good for you. Diane Lake,
46:46
Speaker 1: author of Member of the Family, Alyssa Stateman, author of
46:50
Speaker 1: Restless Souls, The Sharon Tate Family account of Stardom Manson
46:54
Speaker 1: murders and Crusade for Justice, Karen Smith, crime scene investigator,
46:59
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