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Leadership Under Pressure in Community Pharmacy | Executive Dose · Pharmacy Podcast Network

0:07
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
0:26
Speaker 2: Welcome to Executive Dose, the podcast where pharmaceutical leadership meets
0:32
Speaker 2: unfiltered insight. Hosted by Stephen Beckman, CEO of Your All Pharma.
0:37
Speaker 2: Each episode explores the complex forces shaping today's pharmaceutical industry,
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Speaker 2: from global supply chain stress and regulatory shakeups to innovation
0:45
Speaker 2: in branded and generic drug markets. Join us as we
0:48
Speaker 2: engage sea level leaders and decision makers in candid conversations
0:52
Speaker 2: about navigating disruption, driving growth, and preparing for the next
0:56
Speaker 2: era of pharmaceutical transformation. Curiosity leads strategy, she follows. This
1:01
Speaker 2: is the Executive.
1:01
Speaker 3: Dose, Leadership under pressure in community pharmacy. You are listening
1:15
Speaker 3: to the next episode of the Executive Dose Podcast with
1:18
Speaker 3: our host Steven Beckman back in the PPN studios. Steven,
1:23
Speaker 3: it's great to see.
1:25
Speaker 4: I think I'm going to lead the scorecard for the
1:28
Speaker 4: most visits to the PPN studio network. But that might
1:32
Speaker 4: only be because I live, you know, thirty minutes from you.
1:35
Speaker 5: That's probably the only reason.
1:36
Speaker 3: Why I think you have the record. Although our guest
1:40
Speaker 3: today is creeping up on you because CEO of Marcus
1:44
Speaker 3: Sen's the CEO of IPCs with us.
1:47
Speaker 6: He's back.
1:48
Speaker 3: It's so good to see you Mark.
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Speaker 4: Okay, hold on, let's just make sure we're clear here.
1:53
Speaker 4: We're talking about the number of presents in the studio,
1:56
Speaker 4: not the number of podcasts.
1:58
Speaker 5: But anyways, Hey Mark, it's it's.
2:00
Speaker 4: A pleasure to have you here on Executive Dose. You know,
2:04
Speaker 4: Executive Dose is all about opening up the dialogue and
2:08
Speaker 4: discussion around what is really happening between manufactured to patient,
2:14
Speaker 4: and obviously, in this particular case, we put a very
2:18
Speaker 4: strong focus on the pharmacy and the pharmacy channel, but
2:21
Speaker 4: because we believe that's where a lot of challenges are
2:25
Speaker 4: currently happening, but also we believe the future looks very
2:30
Speaker 4: bright for pharmacy and that's one of the reasons why
2:33
Speaker 4: Yurral has committed to doing a lot of work in
2:37
Speaker 4: this area to help that. So why don't we start
2:40
Speaker 4: right off with the title that Mark gave us. You know,
2:42
Speaker 4: when you think about what's happening in community pharmacy.
2:46
Speaker 5: Now, there has been, there.
2:48
Speaker 4: Will be, and continue to be lots of challenges, but
2:52
Speaker 4: a parallel opportunities. So when you think about leadership, what
2:56
Speaker 4: are what are some of the things that are important
3:00
Speaker 4: for independent pharmacy now to start considering of where they
3:05
Speaker 4: can either advance their leadership or take leadership and a
3:09
Speaker 4: way that will create better opportunity and value for the
3:12
Speaker 4: pharmacy and then obviously the impact that it will have
3:15
Speaker 4: on patients.
3:17
Speaker 6: Well, thanks for having me, Steven, It's nice to be
3:19
Speaker 6: be here with you.
3:20
Speaker 7: And I think a lot of the things that are
3:22
Speaker 7: happening out in community pharmacy is that one thing that
3:28
Speaker 7: we've had and this goes right back to the time
3:29
Speaker 7: in community pharmacists for back in pharmacy school and the
3:33
Speaker 7: reasons why they wanted to go into community pharmacy to
3:35
Speaker 7: begin with, which was to take care of their communities,
3:37
Speaker 7: to take care of their patients. I think the one
3:40
Speaker 7: thing that we're finding is is that the consistency of
3:45
Speaker 7: independent pharmacy in terms of their service model, how they
3:48
Speaker 7: take care of their communities, and how they engage with
3:50
Speaker 7: patients has effectively continues to win the day in the
3:56
Speaker 7: marketplace and continues to outshine. They're doing over in chains
4:01
Speaker 7: and other mechanisms for people to get their medications, whether
4:04
Speaker 7: that's be a mail order, direct to consumer.
4:06
Speaker 6: We're still the shining beacon on the hill of the
4:09
Speaker 6: service model, and I.
4:11
Speaker 7: Think that what we need to do and what community
4:13
Speaker 7: pharmacies need to do within leadership is the remaining in
4:15
Speaker 7: that consistency.
4:17
Speaker 6: Why is it that you went.
4:18
Speaker 7: Into the business to begin with and remember that? And
4:20
Speaker 7: that's not always easy to do when you have declining reimbursements.
4:24
Speaker 7: You know, the ira A drugs creating cash flow issues.
4:27
Speaker 7: Last year was the the d I R cliff. There's
4:32
Speaker 7: always something a left hook or right hook coming out
4:34
Speaker 7: from the marketplace, and I think that in order to
4:37
Speaker 7: be truly accelerate within this space is that our members
4:43
Speaker 7: at i p C, which are all independent pharmacies and
4:45
Speaker 7: independent pharmacy in general, is having that consistency of service level,
4:50
Speaker 7: consistency of how they run their businesses and to really
4:54
Speaker 7: take the slings and arrows as they come without necessarily
4:57
Speaker 7: having that impact patient outcomes and patient exper an. So
5:01
Speaker 7: that's the one shining beacon on the hill that we
5:03
Speaker 7: have within our industry. And I think if we can
5:05
Speaker 7: continue down that path with that consistency and with that optimism,
5:10
Speaker 7: I think we're going to continue to.
5:13
Speaker 6: Fare very well in the marketplace.
5:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think
5:16
Speaker 4: consistency is a word that we could apply about anywhere,
5:21
Speaker 4: and anybody that can do things consistently are going to
5:26
Speaker 4: traditionally be successful. So let's explore that a little bit
5:30
Speaker 4: from it. Because when I think of consistency not only
5:33
Speaker 4: as a manufacturer, but as a person that goes and
5:36
Speaker 4: actually gets my prescriptions filled at an independent pharmacy, my
5:40
Speaker 4: local one that's just around the corner from me, I've
5:43
Speaker 4: always traditionally looked at that as consistency in terms of
5:48
Speaker 4: them taking the time to do right by the patient
5:51
Speaker 4: and making sure that their guidance and the information not
5:56
Speaker 4: only on the drugs but everything else that they're doing,
5:58
Speaker 4: and their ability to get at the drugs. But to me,
6:02
Speaker 4: that that has been their hallmark. But don't you think
6:06
Speaker 4: that from a consistency standpoint, that's going.
6:08
Speaker 5: To have to be expanded? Uh?
6:10
Speaker 4: As So, as an independent pharmacist, how we're going to
6:13
Speaker 4: have to consistently supply new services on top of that foundation.
6:18
Speaker 4: And if that's the case, where where do you think
6:20
Speaker 4: those new opportunities to kind of overlay that consistency mantra
6:27
Speaker 4: will have the best impact for for the pharmacy in
6:30
Speaker 4: their community.
6:32
Speaker 6: And that's a great question.
6:33
Speaker 7: I think when we when we think of what consistency is,
6:35
Speaker 7: consistency is moving.
6:36
Speaker 6: Where the market is going to be and always.
6:39
Speaker 7: Evolving, right, And I think there's a lot of new
6:42
Speaker 7: and exciting areas that are that our members are getting into.
6:46
Speaker 7: One is is that you know virtual clinics where you
6:50
Speaker 7: have the ability to.
6:51
Speaker 6: Have a teledoc service right in your pharmacy.
6:53
Speaker 7: So that way, if somebody comes in and needs a
6:56
Speaker 7: refill where they're not able to get in to see
6:58
Speaker 7: their primary charac physician and within minutes, you can have
7:01
Speaker 7: them with the refill with the teledox service that is
7:03
Speaker 7: there in your pharmacy with a QR code within minutes.
7:06
Speaker 7: I think that moving into new lines vaccinations is always
7:09
Speaker 7: a great one.
7:10
Speaker 6: All of our members are now.
7:11
Speaker 7: Pretty much vaccinating and getting into travel vaccines, certainly the
7:16
Speaker 7: COVID vaccines, as well as anything that's on the on
7:20
Speaker 7: the federal on the federal guidelines as to what you
7:22
Speaker 7: should be at a certain age. That's a great way
7:24
Speaker 7: to continue to evolve your services. And then there's also
7:29
Speaker 7: things such as functional medicine. We have many, many more
7:31
Speaker 7: of our members getting into functional medicine, which is effectively
7:35
Speaker 7: your high end vitamins, your your supplements were consumers as
7:40
Speaker 7: they have the ability to be more educated with and
7:44
Speaker 7: bombarded even educated with through through through online presences of what.
7:50
Speaker 6: They should be taking.
7:51
Speaker 7: Is being able to supply those those particular medications and
7:54
Speaker 7: those high end supplements and educating our members and pharmac sorry,
7:58
Speaker 7: you're educating our patients on those of things. That's been
8:01
Speaker 7: a really big area of growth as well.
8:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm very happy to hear that because over the
8:08
Speaker 4: course of a number of the podcasts we have, we've
8:10
Speaker 4: been asking that question and from different angles and different perspectives,
8:13
Speaker 4: and the one thing that was clear is independent pharmacy
8:18
Speaker 4: has to continue to expand in order to be successful
8:21
Speaker 4: because unfortunately, as you pointed out, the traditional pharmacy still
8:25
Speaker 4: struggles in terms of, you know, how many prescriptions they
8:28
Speaker 4: actually lose money on versus they make money. I'm based
8:30
Speaker 4: on reimbursement and the dynamic of how our system works.
8:34
Speaker 4: But I'm really intrigued by the first one. I'm trigued
8:37
Speaker 4: by all three of the of the examples you said.
8:39
Speaker 4: But they telehealth. So most people think about telehealth as
8:43
Speaker 4: you know, the lifestyle platforms that are out there and
8:47
Speaker 4: more of these national platforms. But can you talk a
8:51
Speaker 4: little bit more about what's happening what you're seeing with
8:53
Speaker 4: the telehealth at the pharmacy level. Is this a smaller
8:57
Speaker 4: kind of radius where they're actually linking patients up to
9:01
Speaker 4: physicians within the same community or area, or are they
9:04
Speaker 4: using the larger platforms. And if you saw that continue
9:07
Speaker 4: to grow, it would seem to me it'd be really
9:09
Speaker 4: a great tool when you able to create a platform
9:13
Speaker 4: where that ability to get to somebody is also somebody
9:16
Speaker 4: that might ultimately be a regional caregiver or somebody that
9:21
Speaker 4: they could potentially even see downstream. So how's that take
9:25
Speaker 4: in shape and where are the challenges and opportunities with that?
9:28
Speaker 7: Well, here at IPC, we launched a digital health platform
9:32
Speaker 7: about a year and a half ago. It's called I
9:34
Speaker 7: Care Plus. And what we have is within our within
9:37
Speaker 7: our pharmacies. As an IPC member, our digital health network.
9:41
Speaker 7: What happens is you if you walk into one of
9:43
Speaker 7: our particular stores, similar to like you would with a
9:46
Speaker 7: minute clinic or whatnot in a chain at Virtual there'd
9:49
Speaker 7: be a U R Elco that if you present yourself
9:51
Speaker 7: six o'clock on a Friday, your child's got pink eye,
9:54
Speaker 7: you need you need a prescription for this, or you
9:56
Speaker 7: need a Z pack, or you need whatever. There's a
9:59
Speaker 7: q R there, you go in. You're able to uh
10:03
Speaker 7: go into the teledoct service. It's all AI generated. The
10:05
Speaker 7: answers some AI questions do you need to see a doctor?
10:08
Speaker 7: And at the end, yes, to see a doctor, and
10:10
Speaker 7: within three minutes, uh as our sla a doctor pops up. Okay,
10:15
Speaker 7: go go through whatever it is that you need and
10:16
Speaker 7: write that particular description. Sometimes it's for pink eye. Sometimes
10:20
Speaker 7: it's I can't get in to see my primary care physician,
10:22
Speaker 7: but I need to refill and I need this overwritten.
10:25
Speaker 7: Sometimes it might be, uh, you know, I'm going on
10:28
Speaker 7: vacation and I need this particular vaccination or I need
10:32
Speaker 7: you know this particular uh you know this particular nausea drug.
10:38
Speaker 7: Those are the types of things that can happen where
10:40
Speaker 7: it's cash or insurance based service.
10:42
Speaker 4: And that's going to be a big question for me. Well,
10:45
Speaker 4: first of all, the fantastic if you can turn around something.
10:47
Speaker 4: So these are something a patient can stay in the
10:49
Speaker 4: store and be able to get service property. And then
10:52
Speaker 4: it is both cash based and commercial based. So from
10:56
Speaker 4: a reimbursement standpoint, the system is able to quickly adjudicate
11:02
Speaker 4: that prescription, so they could use their commercial coverage as well.
11:07
Speaker 6: That's exactly right.
11:07
Speaker 7: So both that both the doctor services can be used
11:10
Speaker 7: in insurance or in a cash pay basis is twenty
11:12
Speaker 7: nine dollars for the for the outcome or and then
11:15
Speaker 7: of course the prescription is like any other prescription, It
11:18
Speaker 7: goes right into.
11:18
Speaker 6: The right into the electronic queue. Did you stand there?
11:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if the patient goes into the telehealth, the
11:25
Speaker 4: patient's paying for that. I'm assuming the patients.
11:28
Speaker 7: Think that either twenty nine dollars cash or they can
11:31
Speaker 7: also use their.
11:32
Speaker 6: Insurance for that, their insurance Okay, their insurance.
11:34
Speaker 7: Yeah, if their insurance takes it, it's Doctronic is our
11:37
Speaker 7: partner and our teledoctorneves Well.
11:40
Speaker 4: Talk about consistency. Then if you're able to service your
11:42
Speaker 4: patient at the highest level by operating on that solution,
11:47
Speaker 4: that's that's a great one. So I think all those
11:50
Speaker 4: ideas are very very exciting. What's the role not only
11:57
Speaker 4: for pharmacist leadership. I guess maybe to go back to
12:01
Speaker 4: the leadership question, you know, the pharmacy tech versus pharmacist
12:05
Speaker 4: or pharmacy owner.
12:06
Speaker 5: You know, we've had some really.
12:08
Speaker 4: Fascinating conversations about the role of pharmacy tech. So when
12:12
Speaker 4: we continue on this dialogue for leadership, how can the
12:19
Speaker 4: different individuals within the setting create value as well?
12:23
Speaker 5: And do you see pharmacy.
12:27
Speaker 4: Tech able to be maybe traditionally not seen as ability
12:32
Speaker 4: to lead or drive opportunity. Maybe you agree or disagree,
12:36
Speaker 4: I'll be interested in your perspective on you know, the
12:40
Speaker 4: types of leadership we have to see within the individuals
12:42
Speaker 4: within independent pharmacy.
12:44
Speaker 7: Well, what's been interesting and dogming to many pharmacies is
12:47
Speaker 7: to how they use their staff within their facility, the
12:51
Speaker 7: one untapped leadership entity that's out there a lot of
12:56
Speaker 7: times of these texts, some of these texts are fifteen
12:59
Speaker 7: twenty years with experience, and what we're starting to see
13:02
Speaker 7: is a lot of pharmacy owners now starting to tap
13:05
Speaker 7: some of these texts with giving them either you know,
13:09
Speaker 7: some type of differential compensation for running specific programs within
13:13
Speaker 7: a pharmacy and having a gain share within that. Should
13:16
Speaker 7: they you know, whether it's on MTMS or it's all
13:19
Speaker 7: on vaccinations or whatever it happens to be, just having
13:21
Speaker 7: somebody at that level who shows an aptitude for some
13:26
Speaker 7: leadership or aptitude for some entrepreneurialship to go out and
13:30
Speaker 7: lead one of these programs and then gain share back
13:32
Speaker 7: some of the gains from that and being able to
13:34
Speaker 7: supplem an income because there's only so much you can
13:37
Speaker 7: pay attack, but certainly being able to enhance it by
13:40
Speaker 7: giving greater responsibilities and giving those people opportunities so that
13:44
Speaker 7: they want to stay with you because there are opportunities
13:46
Speaker 7: within your pharmacy because you're giving them differentially type programs that.
13:50
Speaker 6: They can go ahead and run and manage.
13:52
Speaker 7: And you'd be surprised that the enthusiasm, the leadership, and
13:55
Speaker 7: the joy that a lot of those texts will get
13:58
Speaker 7: out of that.
13:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've had some conversations in our past podcasts and
14:03
Speaker 4: what we've seen as the one of the challenges always
14:06
Speaker 4: been is what is the upside to becoming a pharmacy tech.
14:10
Speaker 4: You know, it's not like there's seven growth positions within
14:14
Speaker 4: a pharmacy tech, but how they can contribute to the
14:17
Speaker 4: generation of patient care, generation of revenue to the pharmacy
14:23
Speaker 4: to make it better, giving them more ownership, more certifications
14:27
Speaker 4: as you expand service platforms within the pharmacy drives directly
14:32
Speaker 4: to that. You know, when you think about leadership, there's
14:35
Speaker 4: a lot of attributes we would assign to leadership, and
14:40
Speaker 4: one is a vision. So when you think about i PC,
14:44
Speaker 4: when you think about your pharmacists that you support, you know,
14:49
Speaker 4: where's the next layer of vision to continue to build
14:53
Speaker 4: off that. I mean, the examples you gave earlier were
14:56
Speaker 4: fantastic as ways to expand, But when you look at
14:59
Speaker 4: the next three to five years, based on what's happening
15:03
Speaker 4: in the marketplace, what's the vision for where you guys
15:08
Speaker 4: need to go.
15:09
Speaker 6: I believe that what.
15:11
Speaker 8: We need to be able to do is is continuously
15:16
Speaker 8: educate the value of independent pharmacy as the premier and
15:19
Speaker 8: lowest cost destination to enter the healthcare continuum.
15:24
Speaker 6: Right.
15:25
Speaker 7: And so what we need to do is all of
15:27
Speaker 7: our members advocating, you know, with lawmakers well at the
15:32
Speaker 7: state and a federal level, but also effectively demonstrating it
15:36
Speaker 7: in our communities that this is we have value here
15:40
Speaker 7: by allowing patients to come in and access healthcare at
15:44
Speaker 7: the lowest cost in our community pharmacies, and have that
15:47
Speaker 7: vision that what we don't necessarily need is what we
15:51
Speaker 7: have in the chain environment where it's you know, you know,
15:55
Speaker 7: a mill that's constantly chained turning over and handing over
15:57
Speaker 7: prescriptions over the counter, but that's actually being a destination
16:00
Speaker 7: to go in and have these conversations. Part of that
16:03
Speaker 7: is is being able to free yourselves up. So a
16:05
Speaker 7: good example of this might be part of the vision
16:08
Speaker 7: is going to need to be is to taking away
16:10
Speaker 7: the distractions and the workload within the pharmacy that you
16:14
Speaker 7: can in order to free up your staff to do
16:17
Speaker 7: these higher level functions. A good example of this being
16:20
Speaker 7: the most egregious thing in a pharmacy if you've you know,
16:23
Speaker 7: spend any time behind the counter, is the telephone. The
16:26
Speaker 7: telephone never ever stops in an independent pharmacy. That's it
16:31
Speaker 7: is hundreds of calls a day and so being able
16:35
Speaker 7: to adopt certain things. So we have a new a
16:37
Speaker 7: new program out that's a new it's a new system
16:39
Speaker 7: that has just come out that's AI based that goes
16:41
Speaker 7: into your IVR that will answer your telephone calls at
16:45
Speaker 7: the pharmacy. Sound just like a pharmacist. Now it's obviously AI,
16:49
Speaker 7: but it's but it's a very prompted AI that's very
16:52
Speaker 7: educated and learns as it goes, where a lot of
16:55
Speaker 7: times the patient will call it and says, hello, I
16:57
Speaker 7: need to I need to refill a prescription. Okay Smith,
17:00
Speaker 7: which prescription would you like to refill? And then they
17:03
Speaker 7: can't pronounce the drugs. I didn't really get that, But
17:06
Speaker 7: these are the prescriptions that you have on your thought.
17:08
Speaker 6: Is this the one you would like?
17:09
Speaker 7: Okay, missus Smith, would you like it delivered or would
17:11
Speaker 7: you like it to pick it up?
17:12
Speaker 6: Pick it up?
17:13
Speaker 7: All of a sudden, you've advocated and you've eliminated hundreds
17:16
Speaker 7: of phone calls out of the pharmacy. So that way
17:18
Speaker 7: your texts and your pharmacists and your owner can sit
17:21
Speaker 7: down and actually do the MTMS and do the patient counseling.
17:26
Speaker 7: That's just one example that as a visionary you have
17:28
Speaker 7: to be able to adopt these new technologies to be
17:30
Speaker 7: able to bring capacity into the store at a reasonable price.
17:34
Speaker 6: So that is something that we have at IPC.
17:35
Speaker 7: Now it's up and running, It's in several stores, and
17:38
Speaker 7: it works quite well. I have some examples of some
17:41
Speaker 7: folks out in Omaha where they've they've reduced their telephone
17:45
Speaker 7: calls into the pharmacy by over eighty percent. And just
17:49
Speaker 7: the frustration of the telephone as a trigger. Just you know,
17:52
Speaker 7: it's like a Pavlovian dog. You hear that, honoring it
17:56
Speaker 7: gets the hair in the back of you, and just
17:58
Speaker 7: those types of things, the stress level that comes down
18:01
Speaker 7: out of it, and the kind of the joy that
18:04
Speaker 7: comes out of that. In the pharmacy, that's just one example,
18:07
Speaker 7: but it's as farmacists.
18:08
Speaker 6: Coming into the future, the vision needs to be.
18:11
Speaker 7: Adopting new technologies, adopting new ways of doing business, which
18:14
Speaker 7: is that consistency, right, That's what that we do. Consistency
18:17
Speaker 7: is being able to innovate through over a long period
18:19
Speaker 7: of time as well, and that's I think that's another
18:21
Speaker 7: thing that we do and we support that and those
18:24
Speaker 7: are one of those models that are coming out now
18:26
Speaker 7: that that could be really game changing for our members.
18:29
Speaker 4: Well, there's no doubt that innovation is something that has
18:34
Speaker 4: to be a part of consistency over time, and it's
18:37
Speaker 4: great to hear you say that. I think your examples
18:39
Speaker 4: reflect that. I want to go back on two points though.
18:44
Speaker 4: The first one is the use of this mechanism and
18:48
Speaker 4: the use of AI, as you just explained through the
18:50
Speaker 4: telephone call. Now, my question to you as simple as
18:53
Speaker 4: this is. One of the value propositions of consistency and
18:57
Speaker 4: why people come to independent pharmacy versus other options is
19:01
Speaker 4: because they can talk to the pharmacists or to the
19:05
Speaker 4: tech and that's great when you're in office, but the
19:08
Speaker 4: value is is that you feel like you're talking and
19:10
Speaker 4: there's that that close relationship. So has there been any pushback?
19:14
Speaker 4: I mean, productivity sounds like it's improved fantastic, but what's
19:18
Speaker 4: been the reaction to the patients now are they Are
19:21
Speaker 4: they satisfying with that? They still feel that connectivity I
19:23
Speaker 4: should say, even though it is AI, but they feel
19:26
Speaker 4: good at the end of it because they they've got
19:29
Speaker 4: their question answered in an efficient timeframe. So is AI
19:32
Speaker 4: really continue to provide productivity at the same time that
19:36
Speaker 4: you're not losing that that that continuity of consistency of
19:41
Speaker 4: of feeling like you're talking to your pharmacist.
19:44
Speaker 6: So that's that's a great question.
19:45
Speaker 7: So when it comes to outside providing and whether it's
19:49
Speaker 7: a doctor's office or a nurse who's calling in right
19:52
Speaker 7: so not a patient, it's adopted very well. They love
19:55
Speaker 7: the efficiency. They quite obviously they prefer not to have
19:57
Speaker 7: to talk to somebody.
20:00
Speaker 6: Themselves.
20:00
Speaker 5: I love my pharmacist, but I only want to talk
20:02
Speaker 5: to him.
20:03
Speaker 6: Actually, this is a business.
20:04
Speaker 7: I need it on in and out Now from a
20:06
Speaker 7: from a patient standpoint, when it comes to simple things
20:08
Speaker 7: like what's hours of your store open?
20:10
Speaker 6: Or can I get a refill? The the feedback has
20:13
Speaker 6: been very, very good.
20:14
Speaker 7: Now at any time you can just say speak to
20:17
Speaker 7: a person and it'll it'll, it'll, it'll automatically connect you
20:20
Speaker 7: to a person, live, person in the in the pharmacy.
20:22
Speaker 7: So there's always that out and it's quite honestly, what
20:25
Speaker 7: we're finding it's less frustrating than IVR with if you
20:28
Speaker 7: want this, press one, if you want this, press two,
20:30
Speaker 7: press three, just all voice activity.
20:32
Speaker 6: So actually we.
20:33
Speaker 7: Find that rather than the traditional IVR, the AI agent
20:37
Speaker 7: is much more consistent and a lot more user friendly.
20:40
Speaker 6: Than a traditional IVR.
20:42
Speaker 7: So actually we've been finding that it's it's been a
20:44
Speaker 7: better patient experience rather than than a negative of not
20:46
Speaker 7: being able to talk. And for those who are you know,
20:49
Speaker 7: you're a mom, you're you're busy, you're on the phone,
20:50
Speaker 7: you get the car and the kids in the back
20:52
Speaker 7: and you want to get a refill. Not having to
20:54
Speaker 7: talk to somebody is also a very a very efficient
20:57
Speaker 7: way to do something, so it's well received.
21:00
Speaker 4: And the other thing I wanted to dig in just
21:02
Speaker 4: for a moment, and that is your comment about low
21:04
Speaker 4: cost or point of contact. So I want to make
21:08
Speaker 4: sure that we're clear and what you're articulating. Are you
21:11
Speaker 4: articulating that the pharmacy can be that kind of that
21:15
Speaker 4: first point of contact where it's not a high copay
21:19
Speaker 4: or even the case where it's hard to even get
21:21
Speaker 4: into a physician, where if a patients in need.
21:24
Speaker 5: There's there's a there's a ability.
21:27
Speaker 4: And that's where your telehealth can also come back in,
21:30
Speaker 4: is that the pharmacist is is kind of a The
21:34
Speaker 4: pharmacists can play that role as almost triage or that
21:36
Speaker 4: first point of contact for some of the situations of
21:39
Speaker 4: patients in versus the ability or the cost to you know,
21:43
Speaker 4: go to the traditional route through a physician or try to.
21:47
Speaker 4: I just want to make sure I'm clear, because I
21:49
Speaker 4: was really I was curious and excited about what you
21:53
Speaker 4: said because low cost is important. But I also know
21:57
Speaker 4: that you know the cost pressures on pharmacy make it
22:01
Speaker 4: difficult too, So how's that all work together?
22:04
Speaker 6: So what I mean the low cost. It's the lowest
22:06
Speaker 6: cost environment.
22:07
Speaker 7: Take a bit from the macro healthcare system where you
22:11
Speaker 7: can go into an emergency room, going to urgent care,
22:13
Speaker 7: going to a primary care physician, or going to an
22:15
Speaker 7: independent pharmacy. It's being able to express as leaders in
22:19
Speaker 7: the community pharmacy space, both at the state and the
22:21
Speaker 7: national level, is that we are the most accessible in
22:25
Speaker 7: the lowest cost platform in order to get things done.
22:27
Speaker 7: So this goes part and parcel into ECAPS right, So
22:31
Speaker 7: gaps and being able to dispense and being able to
22:34
Speaker 7: get to the top of your license. If we can
22:36
Speaker 7: all consistently as an organization and as an industry, consistently
22:42
Speaker 7: show that value proposition to the payers and to the government.
22:46
Speaker 7: We're hoping that as ECAPS, and which sounds optimistic, that
22:51
Speaker 7: we may get something in this particular Congress, if it
22:54
Speaker 7: gets attached to one of the CRS or reconciliation, we
22:59
Speaker 7: may be able to to consistently see where we can
23:02
Speaker 7: lower the cost of healthcare overall. Now that said that
23:06
Speaker 7: means pharmacies have the ability to pick up this, this
23:09
Speaker 7: margin flow or this or these new these new revenue
23:12
Speaker 7: streams that weren't there before. So it actually enhances the
23:15
Speaker 7: revenue streams back into the pharmacy when you're able to
23:19
Speaker 7: bill on these NPR or bill on these uh these uh,
23:22
Speaker 7: these particular billing codes where they're typically in a part
23:25
Speaker 7: B or they're in a in the medical setting, but
23:28
Speaker 7: it's for work that you're doing anyway, but it's work
23:30
Speaker 7: that you're taking off a doctor and being able to
23:33
Speaker 7: bring to a lower cost.
23:34
Speaker 6: Environment so we be able to work healthcare continuum.
23:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, I look at, I love that.
23:40
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that's fantastic, and thanks for giving
23:42
Speaker 4: some additional clarity too, because I think that's exactly the
23:45
Speaker 4: role that you can play, and I think it's it's
23:47
Speaker 4: almost essential right in pharmacy if we don't find these
23:50
Speaker 4: platforms to drive some of the Look at, at the
23:53
Speaker 4: end of the day, revenue makes the world go round.
23:56
Speaker 4: Whether you're manufacturer drugs, whether you are a pharmacists, physicians
24:00
Speaker 4: and whoever. We still have to make enough that we
24:03
Speaker 4: can continue to provide and improve. And the biggest challenge
24:06
Speaker 4: of all the constituencies that we deal with as a manufacturer,
24:10
Speaker 4: from physician to wholesales distributors, PBMs, insurance companies, pharmacists, the
24:15
Speaker 4: one that gets to beat up the most. I'm being
24:18
Speaker 4: a little biased here is the manufacturer and the pharmacist.
24:21
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, the front of the back.
24:23
Speaker 5: The front of the.
24:24
Speaker 4: Back always seems to get beat up pretty good. And look,
24:27
Speaker 4: and I don't think anybody would deny that we have
24:29
Speaker 4: a lot of improvements that we need to make in
24:31
Speaker 4: our system. But we have to be able to make
24:34
Speaker 4: the pharmacist profitable and the pharmacy profitable in order for
24:40
Speaker 4: these things to come to fruition, as you said, because
24:42
Speaker 4: then we can start demonstrating through performance that we can
24:47
Speaker 4: manage healthcare in a different way that can be lower costs,
24:51
Speaker 4: as you said, So thanks for doing that. And I
24:53
Speaker 4: think you know then that might even bring more light
24:56
Speaker 4: to the traditional dispensing of drugs and we find a
25:00
Speaker 4: better equilibrium within the system to make sure that everybody
25:04
Speaker 4: is sharing, starting with the patient, but all the way
25:07
Speaker 4: through the value chain, that everybody is is participating in
25:12
Speaker 4: that value chain and the and the appropriate you know,
25:15
Speaker 4: revenue that comes with that, so that we can keep
25:17
Speaker 4: the doors open, and we can make the doors when
25:20
Speaker 4: you come in, make the experience even better, as you said.
25:23
Speaker 5: So one of the.
25:25
Speaker 4: Questions I always ask, because you know, I do represent
25:28
Speaker 4: the manufacturing site.
25:30
Speaker 5: So when you think.
25:30
Speaker 4: About leadership and you think about consistency, to kind of
25:34
Speaker 4: play back on what what's your perspective on how we
25:39
Speaker 4: as manufacturers continue to that can help you as I
25:42
Speaker 4: PC and then obviously your downstream pharmacies. We pride ourselves
25:49
Speaker 4: at the at the podcast, but at our organization, UH
25:53
Speaker 4: to to listen and one of the things that we
25:56
Speaker 4: always try to get out of this conversation is dialogues
25:58
Speaker 4: with experts and leaders like yourself to say, you know,
26:02
Speaker 4: what do we have to continue to to fit into that?
26:04
Speaker 4: Because everything you said I agree with, consistency of value,
26:08
Speaker 4: creating more value on all levels from pharmacy down to
26:11
Speaker 4: patient are going to be important, and the question is
26:14
Speaker 4: is how do we help in that? How do we
26:16
Speaker 4: help in that cost Now, obviously keeping costs on drugs
26:20
Speaker 4: you know, uh, you know, favorable and things like that,
26:23
Speaker 4: but are there other things that we need to be
26:25
Speaker 4: thinking about from a manufacturer perspective?
26:28
Speaker 7: So unfortunately, you're a You're in a very precarious and
26:33
Speaker 7: you the generic you in terms of manufacturers, Yes, yeah,
26:37
Speaker 7: are in a very precarious position because you're having to
26:40
Speaker 7: deal with source programs that have unbelievable market leverage, and
26:46
Speaker 7: you're constantly going on to r FP and you're in
26:49
Speaker 7: a in a space where there's a lot of times
26:52
Speaker 7: an overabundance of capacity. So a lot of times you
26:55
Speaker 7: get beat up in a lot of these RFP processes.
26:58
Speaker 7: And so keeping your costs down and this is just
27:01
Speaker 7: to be quite frank, and keeping your costs down and
27:04
Speaker 7: being able to offer the best prices really doesn't translate
27:08
Speaker 7: into things that happen in the independent pharmacy because it
27:12
Speaker 7: goes once it goes into a source program, it goes
27:14
Speaker 7: into the into the into the supply chain. It's cross
27:17
Speaker 7: subsidizing brands is part of economic model.
27:20
Speaker 6: It's doing all sorts of things.
27:21
Speaker 5: The value get lost.
27:23
Speaker 7: Here's you're squashing the middle and we're squashing the middle,
27:25
Speaker 7: but here's yours where I do believe you have an opportunity.
27:28
Speaker 7: So the one thing is is that within the within
27:31
Speaker 7: the big consortiums and the big wholesalers, uh, you know,
27:34
Speaker 7: sometimes they're when they do their economic deals where they're
27:37
Speaker 7: cross subsidized a GCR and you have you know brand
27:42
Speaker 7: costa is predicated on that. But there's still the ability
27:45
Speaker 7: for independent pharmacies outside of their contract, once they've maximized
27:49
Speaker 7: the value out of their primary wholesale contract is to
27:52
Speaker 7: go to the secondary markets and purchase products out there
27:55
Speaker 7: at a much, much discounted rate. So from a manufacturer standpoint,
27:59
Speaker 7: it's a matter of consistently being able to find those
28:04
Speaker 7: secondary markets where that carve out that comes out of
28:08
Speaker 7: a primary wholesale contract can be used to average costs
28:12
Speaker 7: down at the pharmacy and being able to help us
28:15
Speaker 7: average costs down the overall market basket of what we're
28:18
Speaker 7: having to dispense at the pharmacy by being able to
28:20
Speaker 7: go out and finding specific molecules at a secondary wholesaler
28:24
Speaker 7: where we're able to get it at an appropriate price.
28:27
Speaker 7: Second thing is is that, and you know this through IPC,
28:32
Speaker 7: but we also have secondary contracts that layer behind the
28:35
Speaker 7: primary source programs, and so being able to participate in
28:39
Speaker 7: our secondary contracts ours known as pharmacy selects, or if
28:42
Speaker 7: you're a McKesson member, it's called RTL two on the
28:45
Speaker 7: contract lead. It's being able to have a backup contract
28:49
Speaker 7: to the source program where you know, sometimes the primary
28:52
Speaker 7: wholesaler just doesn't have the right horse in the game
28:54
Speaker 7: and they don't have the pricing or source or product availability.
28:58
Speaker 7: That is a great way war you to participate, as
29:01
Speaker 7: well as to help independent pharmacy by by being able
29:03
Speaker 7: to be that backup contract so that way we can
29:06
Speaker 7: consistently supply to the patient and be get it at
29:08
Speaker 7: a fair price in.
29:09
Speaker 6: Order to be there.
29:10
Speaker 7: So those are two ways I see the manufacturers being
29:13
Speaker 7: able to participate really well. And unfortunately, you're almost in
29:19
Speaker 7: a worse position than independent pharmacy is when it comes
29:22
Speaker 7: to you know, being able to take your margins and
29:27
Speaker 7: being able to flow that down.
29:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with everything you said, and it's great
29:31
Speaker 4: to have somebody like yourself be able to recognize. And
29:34
Speaker 4: that's really the spirit of what this podcast is about
29:37
Speaker 4: is to kind of make sure that everybody within this,
29:41
Speaker 4: you know, the value chain, knows what the pressure points
29:44
Speaker 4: and the challenges are because we all we can all
29:46
Speaker 4: know what ours are, but sometimes we don't always fully
29:49
Speaker 4: appreciate our respect what the truth really is in terms
29:53
Speaker 4: of some of the areas. And I think you're absolutely
29:56
Speaker 4: right with everything you said, and I think good manufacturers
29:59
Speaker 4: look at those opportunit I think the challenge is to
30:02
Speaker 4: understand which therapeutic areas and which ones are the best
30:07
Speaker 4: to make backup. And you know, part of the backup is,
30:10
Speaker 4: I think really about products that where the pharmacy can
30:13
Speaker 4: still make money on the prescriptions, but then you have
30:15
Speaker 4: to understand how the reimbursement dynamic is really impacting those
30:19
Speaker 4: different products at the pharmacy level. So one of the
30:21
Speaker 4: things I've always encouraged our organization, and I would say
30:24
Speaker 4: this out loud on the podcast, is that you know,
30:26
Speaker 4: manufacturers have to understand down to the product level how
30:32
Speaker 4: products are really being covered and and uh and understand
30:37
Speaker 4: where you know, which products pharmacists don't make any money.
30:40
Speaker 4: And you're right, you know that the good and bad
30:42
Speaker 4: of of our industry is that, you know, we created
30:46
Speaker 4: a generic industry out of the fact that we didn't
30:48
Speaker 4: want to change some of the other parameters of our
30:50
Speaker 4: branded industry. I mean, I started my career in brands,
30:53
Speaker 4: and you know, our our patent laws do not reflect
30:59
Speaker 4: the investment and risk that innovative companies take and give
31:02
Speaker 4: them an opportunity to recoup that investment and put the
31:06
Speaker 4: product out of a price because you know, on many
31:09
Speaker 4: times it's you know, twelve years to getting a product
31:12
Speaker 4: approve and you've got five years to make back a
31:14
Speaker 4: half of you know, a billion dollars and in capital cost.
31:17
Speaker 4: So it's that's what it formed. And now I don't
31:19
Speaker 4: think generic industry is back, because I've been on both
31:21
Speaker 4: sides of the fence in my career. But we also
31:24
Speaker 4: have kind of overshot our skis a little bit now.
31:26
Speaker 4: When you have seventeen suppliers of you know, Levo tablets
31:29
Speaker 4: for example, you know we don't need seventeen, we need five.
31:33
Speaker 4: And if we create five, maybe five would create what
31:35
Speaker 4: we should be what I would call the right price,
31:39
Speaker 4: not the best price, which is where our industry is gone,
31:41
Speaker 4: but a right price, and that right price thing could
31:44
Speaker 4: be reflected through the value chain properly. So first of all,
31:48
Speaker 4: these are all just amazing topics Todd that Mark wrot today.
31:53
Speaker 4: I think, you know the spirit of what we're trying
31:55
Speaker 4: to do here is that collaboration is going to get
31:59
Speaker 4: us to that. And you know what the examples that
32:04
Speaker 4: Mark gave today for me really shows is the interdependency
32:10
Speaker 4: of our of our system, our business. So what I
32:13
Speaker 4: do impacts what pharmacy can do or not do, impacts
32:17
Speaker 4: obviously everybody in between. And it does have major press
32:21
Speaker 4: uh pressure points on the front end and the back end,
32:25
Speaker 4: and we need to find ways that all the organizations uh.
32:30
Speaker 4: And when I say all organizations, everybody from the manufacturing,
32:34
Speaker 4: delivery of drugs down to the dispensing and managing a
32:38
Speaker 4: patience has to understand that it's a synergistic dynamic and
32:43
Speaker 4: it has to work work well if everybody's going to
32:45
Speaker 4: be able to continue to do what we want to do.
32:48
Speaker 4: We want to continue to invest in new chemical entities.
32:51
Speaker 4: We always want to hopefully see improvement. We want to
32:54
Speaker 4: continue to make products accessible, but right now we're also
32:57
Speaker 4: got to point where the system forces us to be
33:01
Speaker 4: in the largest drug shortage situation we've ever been in
33:04
Speaker 4: the US. But ultimately, we have to keep pharmacy doors open.
33:09
Speaker 4: We have to keep pharmacies able and the teams that
33:13
Speaker 4: they have around them to do exactly what Mark said
33:15
Speaker 4: and that service that patient and a continuous and level
33:19
Speaker 4: of continuity that shures the best outcome as possible.
33:23
Speaker 5: So as we.
33:24
Speaker 4: Close up any not anything from your side or Mark,
33:27
Speaker 4: anything you want to close with. I think at the
33:30
Speaker 4: end of the day, if we got one tidbit, as
33:33
Speaker 4: Mark suggested, that we get out of this, I think
33:36
Speaker 4: the tidbit is continuity and consistency and then applying all
33:42
Speaker 4: those things that are important like creativity and commitment to
33:47
Speaker 4: the process. And I think the one thing that Mark
33:50
Speaker 4: said that is going to be important and I see
33:52
Speaker 4: it firsthand, is that you have to be active. You
33:56
Speaker 4: can't just complain, and that means being active at the
33:59
Speaker 4: political at the state or federal, continue to put pressure
34:03
Speaker 4: on to have the conversations and the dialogues that will
34:05
Speaker 4: continue to resonate in a way that will create opportunity
34:10
Speaker 4: and adjustment to things to outimately drive that improvement. But
34:16
Speaker 4: anything you want to kind of close with either one
34:18
Speaker 4: of you guys, well, I.
34:19
Speaker 7: Certainly appreciate you you taking the time and being with
34:22
Speaker 7: me today. I mean, at the end of the day,
34:23
Speaker 7: the real innovative operators are out there and they're networking,
34:27
Speaker 7: they're listening to PPN, they're doing these types of things
34:31
Speaker 7: where they're educating themselves to what are your peers doing,
34:33
Speaker 7: what innovative things are happening. What is one thing I
34:36
Speaker 7: could do that I would do that I can bring
34:38
Speaker 7: back to my pharmacy that would make an improvement, that
34:41
Speaker 7: continuous improvement consistency. I think if we can have show
34:44
Speaker 7: that leadership, our industry is going to be very strong.
34:48
Speaker 7: I mean, we've had a lot of over the years,
34:49
Speaker 7: a lot of stories starting to close, but the ones
34:51
Speaker 7: that remain, you know, the eighteen to twenty thousand independents
34:55
Speaker 7: that are still out there are the most resilient of
34:57
Speaker 7: the ones that are still remaining.
35:00
Speaker 6: And if we can.
35:01
Speaker 7: Always go back to the grassroots of what was the
35:03
Speaker 7: reason that you went into business in the first place
35:06
Speaker 7: and hold on and grasp that that that that that
35:10
Speaker 7: forethought as to why you wanted to be this entity
35:12
Speaker 7: out in your community, I think we're going to be
35:15
Speaker 7: a much stronger industry going forward.
35:17
Speaker 6: And UH, and I'm very optimistic.
35:19
Speaker 7: I p IBC grew last year, which is you know
35:22
Speaker 7: in terms of our membership and UH, in environments such
35:25
Speaker 7: as this, we continue to see innovations and I'm proud
35:29
Speaker 7: to have those pharmacists talk to us on a daily
35:32
Speaker 7: basis as to what they're doing.
35:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, the thing you said is really really
35:37
Speaker 4: insightful too. I Mean, at the end of the day,
35:39
Speaker 4: if you find a challenging situation, by definition, the week
35:45
Speaker 4: will go away. So and that's not to be critical
35:49
Speaker 4: of those pharmacists that pharmacies that are no longer. But
35:53
Speaker 4: what that what it really sounds like to me, is
35:55
Speaker 4: that we're getting to a point in time here where
35:58
Speaker 4: the independent pharmacy that is in place now this eighteen
36:01
Speaker 4: to twenty thousand are getting strong and they have a
36:04
Speaker 4: strong foundation. And when that strong foundations in place, that's
36:07
Speaker 4: going to be the example and the enthusiasm for other
36:10
Speaker 4: people to get back into independent pharmacy. To what you
36:13
Speaker 4: said for why you wanted to do this begin with,
36:15
Speaker 4: and I'm I'm not a betting man, but I am
36:20
Speaker 4: very optimistic, and I'm not a pharmacist, but I love
36:23
Speaker 4: pharmacists because I believe it's been the channel of my
36:26
Speaker 4: thirty plus years in our industry that we've never honestly
36:29
Speaker 4: given its full fair share as a manufacturing industry. I
36:34
Speaker 4: think that number is going to grow. I think that
36:36
Speaker 4: number is going to grow, and you're seeing it because
36:38
Speaker 4: of things like who we thought right A would have been
36:40
Speaker 4: out of business here. So I think it's great. And
36:44
Speaker 4: you know, you made a really good comment, and maybe
36:47
Speaker 4: we'll let Todd close here, because you know, PPN is
36:51
Speaker 4: an amazing platform that's been created for this channel, for
36:55
Speaker 4: this community. I've been pleased to be a part of
37:00
Speaker 4: it as a sponsor and manufacturer and now doing things
37:03
Speaker 4: like the podcast because it is raising the level of
37:08
Speaker 4: dialogue and discourse to the point where good ideas.
37:13
Speaker 5: Are are being exchanged.
37:15
Speaker 4: But most importantly to what you said earlier today, Mark,
37:18
Speaker 4: through what you do at i PC, they're actually being
37:20
Speaker 4: implemented and those trials and errors are going to just
37:24
Speaker 4: make everything stronger. And I'm I'm gonna I'm going to
37:27
Speaker 4: actually go check my local pharmacists now and see if
37:29
Speaker 4: he's at IPC and make sure I can go in
37:32
Speaker 4: and get my on site telehealth there. Yeah, I could
37:36
Speaker 4: use that for a couple of ailments from working on
37:38
Speaker 4: my farm. But anyways, Todd thoughts, I just am excited.
37:42
Speaker 4: It was great to have you on Mark. You're you're
37:46
Speaker 4: the CEO of a company that constantly practices what you preach.
37:50
Speaker 4: Freedom to farm is a whole new concept that has
37:53
Speaker 4: been brought by the membership over the years.
37:57
Speaker 3: The blog at IPC. I want the listeners to know
38:00
Speaker 3: IPC dot com go to the blog section. Everything that
38:03
Speaker 3: we talked about today, the evolution of our pharmacy technician,
38:07
Speaker 3: how technology is being employed in the independent community pharmacy.
38:12
Speaker 3: How AI is impacting our community pharmacies. All of those
38:16
Speaker 3: subjects are accessible on the blog and dig deeper into
38:21
Speaker 3: some of those discussions, all based on what works out
38:24
Speaker 3: in the real world, not just concepts by creative marketing
38:28
Speaker 3: people like myself, but the real grassroots. I love the blog, Mark,
38:33
Speaker 3: I love the efforts that you put in because it's
38:35
Speaker 3: extremely sincere. It's true testimony to the power of the
38:40
Speaker 3: collective of people that are driving better care in their communities.
38:45
Speaker 3: And I'm proud that IPC is part of the Pharmacy
38:48
Speaker 3: Podcast Network.
38:49
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thank you.
38:50
Speaker 4: To close, Mark, I look forward for the opportunity for
38:53
Speaker 4: you and I to get together off the podcast and
38:56
Speaker 4: to continue this dialogue and continue to challenge creative idea
39:00
Speaker 4: is because here at your ral we we thrive on
39:03
Speaker 4: that and look forward to doing that with you. And
39:07
Speaker 4: on that note, we'll say thank you very much for
39:09
Speaker 4: joining the executive dose.
39:11
Speaker 6: Thank you, Mark, Thank you very much.