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What I've Learnt - Anna Grosman · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, her confidant is a specialised escort agency for women.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: It caters to women who are looking for companionship in any form, emotional, sexual, or for company on a date.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anna Grossman, the director, says, I want to provide a safe space for women to explore their desires and feel desired.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: There are no agencies like mine which provide quality substance and a safe, secure option.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Women want many things which we can provide to feel passion and to be desired, to feel the human touch, or sometimes just to be listened to without it necessarily leading to something physical.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: An empty nester in her early 50s, Anna loves connecting people and networking.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's just celebrated her 30-year wedding anniversary with her husband, who she met when she was 17.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Not all women will use Anna's agency for sex.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Statistically, around 30% are after companionship and dates.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the vetting process remains the same.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: She says men are chosen because they have a genuine desire for all types of women and is passionate about reducing and ultimately removing the stigma that's attached to the sex industry.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's still so much inequality in terms of sexuality and accessing services for sex.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Female sex work is one of the oldest professions in existence, yet, male escort work and women accessing the service are still very stigmatized.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, Anna, welcome to the What I've Learned Podcast.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to chat to you about all things sexuality, desire, and passion.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me, how did you start into what is really quite a fascinating area that not many women dare to tread into?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hi.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me on your wonderful show.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when did it start?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've always been intrigued about my own personal sexuality.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was always very taboo, and I was, I guess, quite cheeky and interested and stuff.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it started at a young age, but um I launched my first male escort agency back in 2012 with uh a business partner.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we launched that because there was just no any, you know, there were no quality services for women, we felt.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a lot of single friends and uh, you know, work acquaintances that just sort of said there was just nothing for women.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot, there's always been a lot for men.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: We thought that we could help our, you know, our friends out.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we created Aphrodisiac male escorts back then, and that ran until 2018, and then I've had a bit of a break, and now I've come out on my own with her confidant.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I launched that on Valentine's Day this year.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really exciting.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I that I just want women to be able to have a space where they can be themselves, they there's no shame, no guilt, they can ask for what they want.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that they'll be worshiped like goddesses and just be able to play and really just love themselves and their bodies.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because, as women, as you know, we've just been bombarded from the youngest of ages.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: We have to look a certain way, we have to present a certain way, we have to speak a certain way.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's we've always been told how to be, how to be, and here with her confidant, you can just be your unique, beautiful self and experience whatever you know you're looking at experiencing in in your stage of life.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a really special place for women.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, the gentlemen are incredible, and the clients uh that I work with, you know, they've just had incredible life-changing experiences.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so humble and grateful to be able to be along the journey with them.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a really beautiful experience.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's really fascinating to me.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that the female of sex, the female sexual desire theme is sort of ever-present everywhere, and yet there are so many women, as you talk about, who don't get to express themselves, who don't get to be their authentic selves, even though we're saturated everywhere by hypersexuality.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of ironic, isn't it?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, many women sort of find themselves in this, and it doesn't matter what age either, because you've got the young ones who are hypersexualized but also confused.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got older women who are, you know, completely still beautiful, gorgeous, still have desire, still feel engaged, adore men.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something do you think?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's changed?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that it's been like this forever?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think you're you're seeing it particularly with the the insights you get with what you do?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, unfortunately, I don't think it's changed that much in the last 12 years since I started my first agency.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would think by 2024, um, women would be more comfortable in using such services.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: There are women that that are comfortable, but still, there's still that stigma which I cannot stand attached to women using such services.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the shame that it brings to them for using such services.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't understand the judgment of people with women using uh, you know, a service like this.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It just actually absolutely gets me so angry.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just don't I don't understand why still in 2024 we just can't do what we want without someone else judging us.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: It it's just ridiculous.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is ridiculous.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's internalized for a lot of women.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got the external pressure of like if you said to some, you know, if you said to actually out of interest, what sort of um women do you find are attending or or booking into the agency?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: How how broad is is the it's it's quite broad.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, anyone in their 20s right through to their 70s, you know, you're getting the younger girls who have never had sex and want a safe sexual experience on their terms, where they they're in charge with these bookings.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: The women are always in charge.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um both, you know, consenting adults as well, and and there's no strings attached.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So a woman's really comfortable in using this.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like you know, going to a personal trainer or booking in a PR session with with a specialist.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's that same kind of work ethic that I have here as well.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we do we do have a lot of women who are first time uh experiencing for the first time they're experiencing sex, and they want to be, you know, to be in a safe, um, non-judgmental space, and that's really, really important for them.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the gentlemen have to be so so thoughtful and just just take their time with these ladies.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of the women have gone through personal trauma, rape, sexual abuse, I mean, just horrible, hor horrible stories.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they're absolutely petrified when they pick up the phone.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It takes them ages, absolutely ages, to even pick up the phone and make a booking because they're not sure of who they're going to be speaking to, what's involved.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I just sort of take them through, you know, the steps slowly.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it can take months for a client to actually book.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of you know, psychological work that comes with this kind of work as well.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just all sex and you know, rainbows and unicorns type of things.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working with a lot of different women with a lot of different um needs and challenges, needs needs and views, and you know, different nationalities as well.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: They've been brought up a certain way, and sex is so taboo, which um, you know, it it's still, you know, in 2024, sex is still taboo.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: The the porn industry is worth billions of dollars.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I just but when you know a woman wants to use these services, they're so judged.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the stigma, the shame, it's it's just disgust, like really disgusting.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's that's why I love what I do.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just passionate about women knowing that these services exist.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's many women using them, like like I said, from different ages.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got the younger generation, um, and also women in their 30s and 40s who have never had sex as well.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they're finally yeah, yeah, they they just haven't, for whatever reasons, using the services.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then also you have the the women who are corporate and they're busy and and they're just all they're married to their jobs and they just don't have time to date or go to bars and you know do the do the apps and that and and the safety aspect of it because you know the vetting process that I do is really, really important for me.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I police check them, I health check them, I I check their current driver's licenses.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure that I'm working with really good men and who are doing it for the right reasons.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really, really important for me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um also the the types of ladies that use the services, they could be have just left their their horrible marriages, like left just abusive relationships and want to go back into the dating scene, but are afraid because they only know what they know from their past relationships.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to be really gentle with them and very caring and compassionate and understanding, and just bringing you know that that inner inner self out again and getting them to love themselves again and embrace themselves.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's that that takes time and and you know, it's beautiful to see a woman just come in with no confidence, no courage, and then even after two-hour booking, she is just incredibly empowered, and it just absolutely, I can't even explain to you, it's such a beautiful um, you know, vision to see her so confident, empowered.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's just like a butterfly, she's just just incredible, just really incredible.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that's another type of client.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: We also have the widows, you know, who have had only one, you know, relationship with their husbands and they've passed away for from illness and they've never been with anyone else.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and and they still have you know that want, that need to connect, you know, it's all about human connection, human interaction and touch uh in a society where AI is just really taking over.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there's great stuff about AI.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying anything that there's certain things that AI is fantastic for, but I think when it comes to human, human connection, uh, you know, we we need to step in and services like this, it's so important to have the human touch.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, so critical and so fundamental to our humanity.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: What I find interesting is also the psychological aspects, but also the fundamental, it it sounds incredibly refined and and somehow it doesn't seem to have what people perceive as the male brothels or the escort agencies, um, which by the way are everywhere and there's no issue, and it seems to be, you know, almost a rite of passage for some men.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like completely, you know, like they take their son or their nephew, and it's all completely part of the culture, isn't it, that we've grown up with.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas it what I'm hearing from you is a great compassion and a gentleness and a sense of that, I mean, particularly when you you outlined just now the widow who has, you know, been with the one man her whole life and finds herself having to access her own sexuality in a different way.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's quite a quite a powerful sort of image, isn't it, of of a woman trying to access something after grief.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Very powerful.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I can sit on the phone for hours with some clients and we just I listen and we just cry together and we work through it together.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just such beautiful women that I work with, and everyone has their own story, and you love talking about stories, and that's really important that women know that there are other women out there that are living virtually the same lives as them.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to use these services because you know, from it, you know, especially from the testimonials, women can sort of read and think, Oh my god, that's me, that's my life.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, like I I can have a full life, I can still feel admired and sexual and sexy, and no matter what age you are.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some some of the clients that send me photos asking me, is this okay if I wear this for my booking?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they look like top, you know, Cindy Crawford style.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Are you serious?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're asking me.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I said, You're absolutely stunning.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they absolutely can't see that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so sad.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like the amounts of women I've had to say, My God, you're beautiful, inside and out, you're smart, you're funny, you've got so much to and and they just don't see it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's what have we done?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, what what are really what have we done?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in some ways, it's always been something that's existed for many, many years, this sort of reticence to see thousands, yeah, to see women not as as as they are, or to treat them as somehow secondary, or having to be to meet certain obscene standards, beauty standards that are unattainable.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: In in in this context, as we know, you know, you've got this flood of eating disorders, you've got this flood of all of these complex issues that have emerged.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think social media has been a blessing or a curse in terms of giving women access, on one hand, to a whole lot of information, but on the other hand, it's made them completely feel constantly inadequate?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's, as you said, great benefits from having social media.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're learning a lot about our ourselves, our bodies, um, like menopause, um, that that's never been talked about.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a silent little disease that we have to be all ashamed about, and just what as women we go through with our bodies from you know, from periods right through to childbirth and childbirth and everything.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm exhausted just being here at 53.
• 15:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's tiring being a woman, you know, with everything else.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think social media is great in some ways, but you you sort of have to you have to take it for what it is and not overthink things as well.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, you go down the rabbit hole, a lot of people do, and there they have to be a certain look, a certain style.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just just just be yourself, really.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm so sick and tired of everyone looking the same, dressing the same, saying everything.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just be your unique self.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no one can be you and just embrace yourself.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we're all human beings.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're so lucky to be alive on this wonderful world, you know, earth.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so many people, you know, don't get that chance.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: We just really have to embrace what we have and just be humble, be and grateful.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you totally.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and part of that is really what you're offering is a sanctuary of sorts, really.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the people that come, as you outlined, need a lot of courage, like it's a little daunting to and also are you do you find married people also come?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if they do, how do you deal with that?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's complex.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Don't have many married couples.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh only the ones that book three serms or are very comfortable in their their sexuality and want to explore and just bring a bit more spice to their relationships.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have many uh married women, very, very few, as the ones that do use the services are virtually they're going through divorce, they're embarking on divorce, and mentally they're already out of the relationship.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're just waiting for paperwork and all that.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and their husbands are cheating and just being abusive mentally, uh, financially, whatever ways.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm there to support them and get them through the stages and the steps that they need to to get their strength, their courage back and be those incredible, you know, be that incredible woman that she's meant to be.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I I love seeing that transformation.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really important to me.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: But no, not many um married women use very sort of very few.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not here to break up marriages either.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously about I want to make sure that you know I'm doing the right thing by the client and by the gentleman, and it's a win-win-win for everyone.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not here, you know, I'm not Ashley Madison.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not Ashley Madison.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and in fact, you're not not only that, you you yourself have been married 30 years, is that right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've been with my husband for 36, and we've worked with 30.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a lifetime.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: We started dating when I was 17, and he was in his first year of medicine.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a long journey.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I've been through my 20s, had my kids, 30s, 40s, and now in my early 50s.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I can relate to a lot of my clients because I've gone through all those decades and with your body and your mind, and as a woman, as a mother, as a wife, as a girlfriend, as a friend, as a businesswoman, I can relate to a lot of women on a lot of different levels as well.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's really poignant because in some way it allows you to have the empathy that you are exuding.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how is your husband with all this?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Does he, how does he see it?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, I have great respect for him, even though I don't know him well.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just it it is quite, which in itself is complex.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it shouldn't be.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I suppose, but if your husband was running an escort agency for women, it would be interesting how you'd feel, right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's an interesting dynamic.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: How does he well we we have a very strong trust that's uh that our relationship started back 36 years ago?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's always been number one trust, and I think that's what sort of bonds us in in our relationship and our marriage.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, he he's a GP, he sees women, he does Pep Smiths it's he does everything, yeah, yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right, it's a job, and just and he sees myself with my business, it's a job, you know.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, I interview gentlemen um daily and um they're all dressed, I never see them naked.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not interested in seeing naked men uh really not interested.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it's a job.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's a professional, you want to see that they're yeah, it's a professional job, and it's something that I'm very passionate and I love, and he supports me always, and yeah, we support each other that way.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's there's no reason it's it's just it's just a job, really.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, a very important one because tell me when you are interviewing these men, first of all, what sort of criteria are you looking for in a man that will offer your clients what they need?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when when I send out the questionnaires, there's about 30, 35 questions, and I really sort of want to see where they're at mentally.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: So emotional intelligence and maturity is really, really important because I just don't want to see someone saying, I like to have sex, and that's it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of people write in that way, and then it's like, nah, not interested.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see that they're learned, that they're educated, they're well spoken, they've got a great sense of humor, they have a compassion, empathy, they love all aspects of women, they must love all aspects of women.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them have grown up with very strong maternal, either grandmothers, mothers, sisters in their lives.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just quite intuitive to be able to have a really easy-going, comfortable conversation with a woman.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it comes quite naturally to them.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're just worldly and handsome in their own right, and they're just absolute angels, but they have to have that emotional and intelligence.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Intelligence and also life experience is really, really important as well.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And most of them run their own businesses, they're they're quite professional, so this is something they do part-time.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: They they just love helping women in whichever way, form that is.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's oh, it's actually just a real window into this.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so good to hear that you are finding these men who are willing to do this.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's that great movie um that was about the woman?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it was wonderful.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Emma Thompson.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Emma Thompson.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she was amazing in that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Leonardo Friend, yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a little bit like there's something really poetic about all of this.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and that is not what I would expect, really, if you just heard the concept.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: But speaking to you and getting an insight into the tenderness, actually, yeah, is really quite fascinating.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Quite there's an element of comfort.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can see how it feels a very important need in our community.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: For the men, do you think first of all, how hard is it to find them?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that's a challenge?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I get hundreds of emails a month from all different men, all different ages.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not all of them want to do it for the right reasons.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I make sure that I the gentlemen that I work with are doing it for the right reasons.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really, really important.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're very few.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a lot on my website because I'm in the process constantly of finding new ones and interviewing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, after the interviews, they then have a trial for two hours where I trial them with a female trialer to see how they flow, how they interact, and whether they'd be able to do a booking in real time.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they go through quite a lot of processes to get to and be able to work with me.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really important.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't take anyone on board.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, safety is number one, and discretion is really, really important to me as well.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And just doing the right thing by my clients, yeah, that's really important.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And on a logistical level, where does this all take place?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it in their is it is it in your agency?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is it out?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is it I work from home, so I've just got a home-based office.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And my clients either email me or give me a call.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then we either book, um, she will either book a hotel or it could be at her home if whatever she chooses, or whether they're going to go away for a weekend.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: The client decides what she wants to do, how she wants to have the booking.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just here to alternate and can, you know, um facilitate.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Facilitate.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's just a booking agency, really.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I love how I just connect the the gentleman with the client and then just see the amazing magic that happens afterwards.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's where my passion is.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just love love.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just a wonderful feeling.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, it just it's amazing.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and tell me, you know, like I mean, erotic literature and pornography and all of these, they've been around forever.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting how it's lots of women.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, erotic literature is got a huge fan base and and is very successful.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's sort of somewhere where women have found access, but it's funny how it's not talked about in the same way.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, do you remember Fifty Shades of Grey?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: How popular?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how yes, of course.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we were running, we we were we had Aphrodisiac mal escorts back then, and it was massive, huge.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: It it gave us a huge plug.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Women just absolutely devoured and just loved themselves, and they were just goddesses, you know, like it was just amazing to see how women just came out, they read the books, they wanted to book, they wanted to experience, they felt that it was okay for them to do it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now it now it's sort of it's it's gone a little bit more backwards in a way.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't explain it.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: It it's just really well.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Conservatism, do you feel?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: May maybe, maybe because of the Me Too movement and it's taken on a different head.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, it's it's changed definitely over the last 12 years.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I was I I thought there'd be more, you know, women more feminist in a way that you know they'd be more out there and they've they've actually sort of stepped back.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure whether it's due to COVID as well, because I was about to say that yeah, changed in the last you know, four or five years since finishing up Aphrodisiac.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's definitely a change, and people are sort of they're all supportive and think it's an amazing, amazing service, but also there's there's a bit of hesitation as well.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, they that that that's a trust, they need to build a trust with me and the new agency.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's only a few months old.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's a lot of embrace, but there's also a lot of fear.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: There well, I think there's a general sense of fear.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: My sense, you know, is that right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like people seem a little conservative, a little cautious generally, on one level, but then on the other level, you see incredible oversexualization.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of this strange dynamic at the moment.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Must be very confusing for some of the young girls, particularly.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: They are not quite sure where they sort of fit in.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that a lot of the younger people watch porn for sex, they don't even know how to just kiss and hold hands.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: They've been taught, they've just been taught to go straight in and it's all about the guy and pleasing the man, right?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, there was a big article about that recently about how it's become an epidemic.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually cultivating this sort of aggression in a lot of the men.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: We we need to teach um boys from a young age how to treat women, how to respect them.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then sex ed needs to be coming in, I think, also around, you know, early teens and obviously in an inappropriate way where they're able to understand and and not the way they have been, you know, with young boys as young as nine looking at porn on their phones.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's an absolute yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be like they were lucky to get hold of some sort of Playboy when they were like 18, like a magazine.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's so accessible, but it's interesting what you're saying too, because it's also about the women coming back to what you do, also making sure the girls know what is what they want and what is acceptable and what is reasonable and what is that they're not there purely to service because it's very the culture is all about them being in service.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, exactly.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a lot of women have no idea.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they ring up and they go, I want to use a service, but I don't actually know what I need or want.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then you start talking to them and you sort of work out, well, you haven't been touched for over 10 years.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: You actually don't know what it feels like to be with you know a partner and how to be in a respectful form as well, as you know, treated like a woman should be treated, and just the gentleness and you know that that slow pace as well.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's just going a thousand kilometers an hour when when people hook up, you know, they just go straight for it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's that there's no soul.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's no soul in it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good expression, and I think it's just that's what all the greatest love songs and symphonies and poetry and literature, that is where that's the sort of the eroticism, and it's you know, it's all embedded in a lot of that.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a lot for them to miss out on culturally to not understand the nuance, the subtlety, the you know.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like going back when we were younger, we're sort of similar ages, you know.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Butterflies, just if a boy looked at your your way, or you went on a date and you just went to a movie and you might have touched hands at the I mean, the butterflies and the excitement, and there's no kissing or nothing, that that's completely not even there anymore because of social media and everything else that we see.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and I was I was listening to the latest Esther Perrell and Brene Brown podcast a few weeks ago, and they were talking about human connection, human interaction, and AI.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what Esther Perel said, I think it was Esther Perel or Brunette, yeah, Esther Perell, AI stands for artificial intimacy.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, wow, wow, that just you know, was a aha moment.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's very powerful, especially from those two.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're so tuned into, I mean, they're they're they're giving you know global access to these issues.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's they're having those important conversations that are not being you know talked about.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: We need to look after each other.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it's all about, is women supporting women in business, in life, your girlfriends, just we need to look out for one another.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's you mentioned we talked briefly about how your sons, one's 26, one's 30, how are they, how are they about your um endeavors and your business?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they've always been very supportive.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I ran Aphrodisiac uh back 12 years ago, they were in high school and when they um when they were having their um their uh end of year you know celebrations and uh one one was going off to surface for schoolies and stuff, I used to give them boxes of condoms to take with them to love to make sure that they're safe.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And look, they've always I've always been very open with my boys and making sure that they respect the girls that they're with and um you know really having those important conversations and just really being good men overall, and and I think um they are pretty amazing and I'm very proud of them.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, they've always been very supportive in whatever I do, and with her confidant, they're like, Yeah, go mum.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're very supportive.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a testimony to you and to them understanding what your mission is.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Love Deb.