Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Saylors NEW 1.3M Bitcoin Plan DESTROYS YOUR LAST Chance to Buy 1 Bitcoin... | EP 1467

Transcript

Saylors NEW 1.3M Bitcoin Plan DESTROYS YOUR LAST Chance to Buy 1 Bitcoin... | EP 1467 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:01
  MicroStrategy just made a huge announcement that nobody is
• 0:05
  paying attention to. They filed with the SEC to raise
• 0:08
  another $44 billion to smash buy, at least at today's prices,
• 0:14
  around 600,000 more Bitcoin. This would take MicroStrategy to
• 0:21
  around 1.3 million Bitcoin. That's nearly 7% of the total
• 0:27
  Bitcoin supply locked up in the hands of one company.
• 0:32
  We all think that we have a lot more time left to accumulate
• 0:36
  Bitcoin, but our chances, your chances to buy one full Bitcoin
• 0:41
  could be disappearing faster than you think It is getting
• 0:47
  crazy out here guys. Remember, 21 million Bitcoin has
• 0:50
  been mine. We have millions of bitcoins
• 0:53
  coming through Wall Street, Bitcoin treasury companies.
• 0:56
  The majority of Bitcoin is held in self custody.
• 0:59
  The point remains the same as always.
• 1:01
  There's not that much Bitcoin to go around.
• 1:03
  Now, before I get into this news, I will break it all down.
• 1:08
  But we saw this happen in the past like 44 billion is
• 1:12
  obviously a huge number. We all wish we could have 44
• 1:15
  billion to smash buy Bitcoin, right?
• 1:17
  But the real interesting thing is, is we've already seen
• 1:20
  something like this happen from strategy from Michael Saylor.
• 1:25
  In October of 2024, MSTR only had around 190,000 Bitcoin and
• 1:31
  then they announced a similar plan to raise $42 billion to buy
• 1:35
  Bitcoin over A2 to three-year period.
• 1:39
  He ended up completing that 42,000 or sorry, $42 billion buy
• 1:44
  in under 12 weeks. In about 3 months he bought.
• 1:47
  He not only raised the money, but he bought that Bitcoin,
• 1:50
  literally doubling the company's Bitcoin holdings in a matter of
• 1:54
  weeks. We also saw the Bitcoin price go
• 1:58
  from 60K to about 126 K in the next few months that followed.
• 2:04
  So the real question is actually my real question is, is Sailor
• 2:07
  single handedly saving us, pulling us out of this bear
• 2:10
  market and is history repeating itself right as we're watching
• 2:15
  it right before our eyes? It's, it's absolutely nuts the
• 2:19
  amount of interest that strategy has gotten from the STRC
• 2:23
  product. This might be the new infinite
• 2:26
  bid, not just from Wall Street, but literally just people
• 2:29
  wanting that 11.5% interest payments or dividend payments
• 2:34
  from STRC. It's, it's absolutely nuts.
• 2:36
  But let me get into this story here and I'll break down some of
• 2:39
  the maths for you and really highlight just what he's doing
• 2:42
  it. It's nuts.
• 2:43
  Like I I I can't emphasize enough just how insane sailors
• 2:48
  moves are. Like he can't keep getting away
• 2:50
  with this guys. He literally can't be the only
• 2:53
  one buying Bitcoin. But as of now it seems like he
• 2:57
  is. That's why I keep saying I think
• 2:59
  Sailor's going to single handedly, you know, by all of
• 3:02
  his might and all of his will pull us out of a shorter bear
• 3:06
  market. I know Nico's looking at me like
• 3:07
  not going to happen, not going to happen, but I don't need your
• 3:10
  bearishness right now. Let's get through the numbers
• 3:12
  and then you can get bearish. Nico's dejected.
• 3:16
  OK, here we go. So he announces yesterday and it
• 3:22
  goes Strategy announces new $21 billion STRCATM program and new
• 3:26
  $21 billion MSTRATM program. So for 42 billion, and I have a
• 3:33
  good breakdown here from crypto briefing, which you know what he
• 3:37
  posted was just the SEC filing. It's boring you, you don't want
• 3:40
  to see that. So Strategy files to raise up to
• 3:42
  $44 billion via ongoing share sales to fund Bitcoin purchases.
• 3:47
  Of course, the company plans to use this proceeds to for general
• 3:51
  corporate purposes, including Bitcoin purchases, working
• 3:55
  capital, and paying dividends on preferred stocks.
• 3:57
  So obviously you could make the assumption that even if he
• 4:02
  raises 44 billion and it wouldn't be crazy if they raise
• 4:05
  more money than 44 billion. As we've seen happen time and
• 4:08
  time again with Strategy, Saylor announces a raise, it is
• 4:13
  oversupplied, more people want in.
• 4:15
  The number could be bigger than 44 billion, but we're going to
• 4:18
  take the 44 billion number. And with that number, he's most
• 4:24
  likely not going to buy $44 billion of Bitcoin.
• 4:26
  But you could guess that or speculate that the majority of
• 4:31
  that 44 billion is just going to be to buy Bitcoin.
• 4:33
  So a huge buy is coming. Now obviously this was just
• 4:39
  filed with the SEC. We don't know when the raise is
• 4:41
  going to happen. But again, as I mentioned the
• 4:43
  beginning, if history repeats itself, this could happen within
• 4:47
  months. He could smash by double S
• 4:50
  holdings within months. What is that going to do with
• 4:54
  the current price action of Bitcoin, with the current amount
• 4:57
  of Bitcoin on exchanges, with the fact that there are no real
• 5:00
  sellers anymore? Everyone's wondering who's
• 5:02
  selling all this Bitcoin. You're literally selling it to
• 5:06
  Sailor at this point. It's Sailor and Larry Fink and
• 5:08
  also maybe you know Jamie Dimon at this point.
• 5:11
  So you shouldn't be selling your Bitcoin currently.
• 5:13
  Anyways, going further, here's where the numbers come in.
• 5:17
  They file with the SEC to raise capital.
• 5:19
  Like I said, 21 billion in the common stock sales, up to 21
• 5:24
  billion in variable rate Series A perpetual stretch preferred
• 5:27
  stock or STRC and up to 2.1 billion in 8% Series A perpetual
• 5:32
  strike preferred stock. So STRK, remember Sailor has at
• 5:36
  this point I've lost count. I think it's like 5 different
• 5:38
  strategy products obviously tapping into five different
• 5:42
  capital markets, but it seems like the STRC ticker, the
• 5:48
  stretch product from strategy it, it is I think the strategy
• 5:53
  iPhone moment, it is the one that is just catching on.
• 5:56
  People really like this product and it seems like sailors just
• 6:01
  going to have an unlimited money printer at this point, you know
• 6:04
  an an infinite money glitch. This could be the underlying
• 6:11
  infinite bid here is if capital markets think that stretch is
• 6:16
  the is the winner and Bitcoin's going to go up, this could keep
• 6:21
  going. He could just rinse and repeat
• 6:22
  this for forever. And, and I know we were joking
• 6:25
  and then we have been joking on the show that for a while there
• 6:29
  it seemed like sailor's buys were getting smaller and smaller
• 6:32
  and is like, is he running out of capital?
• 6:35
  Excuse me? Is he running out of people that
• 6:36
  are interested in these products?
• 6:38
  And then stretch comes out and it just blows the door out of
• 6:42
  the water and more capital than ever.
• 6:44
  I think it's finding its way to stretch, which is just
• 6:47
  absolutely insane and interesting to watch.
• 6:51
  So going further, of course they're going to be buying
• 6:54
  Bitcoin. They're going to use some of
• 6:55
  that money for corporate needs. Nothing's changing here.
• 7:00
  I think what we have learned in the last couple of weeks is that
• 7:04
  strategy is totally market tested.
• 7:08
  I think they're they're totally not only insulated but
• 7:11
  bulletproof at this point. We've said it for a while on the
• 7:15
  show. If you are in the market for a
• 7:17
  Bitcoin treasury company, I think most people are only
• 7:22
  looking at strategy at this point.
• 7:23
  They're they're holding up their MSTR stock.
• 7:27
  It's looking, it's not looking as bad as it did a couple of
• 7:30
  weeks ago. It seemed to have bounced off
• 7:32
  that 150, you know, per share range.
• 7:37
  If the MSTR stock comes back, if the price continues its upward
• 7:41
  trend, this could be a whole different ball game.
• 7:44
  It it could be a totally different ball game.
• 7:47
  Now here's where it gets super interesting.
• 7:49
  I'm going to go over to the strategy.com dashboard.
• 7:53
  This is where we can see their current reserves, how much
• 7:55
  Bitcoin they currently have, what their market cap is for
• 7:58
  strategy. This is where the numbers are
• 8:02
  just absolutely nuts. I think Sailors also feeling the
• 8:05
  FOMO right now. We said it on the show a few
• 8:08
  times, like what does Sailor know?
• 8:09
  I think he's had some backroom conversation, some backroom
• 8:12
  meetings, and he knows what is coming down the pipeline, hence
• 8:16
  why he's almost doing panic buys like we all do when we, it's
• 8:21
  usually happens when you're new to Bitcoin, you get into
• 8:23
  Bitcoin, you put a little capital in, then you finally
• 8:26
  click what Bitcoin is and you get this FOMO and you're like, I
• 8:29
  need to literally sell all of my chairs, sell everything I have
• 8:32
  to get into Bitcoin. Now.
• 8:34
  I think Saylor already sold all his chairs.
• 8:35
  Well, actually, that's, that's not true because if you've seen
• 8:38
  his house in his interviews, he's got some really nice
• 8:40
  chairs. So he's still got some capital
• 8:42
  in his, you know, South Beach mansion that he could probably
• 8:46
  sell if he really needed to. But he's doing this on a
• 8:48
  corporate level. He's doing this from the
• 8:50
  strategy business level. And this is where the numbers
• 8:53
  are not. So again, here we go, Bitcoin
• 8:55
  reserves. He currently has about and and
• 8:57
  this has been fluctuating. This morning with the price
• 8:59
  movement, it was like 52.3 billion.
• 9:02
  Currently it's at 52.9 billion and of course owns 762,000 and
• 9:09
  99 Bitcoin 762099. And he plans to raise 44 billion
• 9:15
  if this happens within the next couple of months and Bitcoin
• 9:19
  doesn't explode. That's you know, about what 80%
• 9:24
  of his Bitcoin reserves currently with that 44 billion,
• 9:28
  that's about adding somewhere north of 600,000 more coins.
• 9:33
  I think the math I did this morning at a lower price was
• 9:35
  about 628,000 coins to add. So we'll do a rough 600K Bitcoin
• 9:42
  when this capital raise happens that he will add to the strategy
• 9:47
  Bitcoin treasury. That's a rough 1.3 million
• 9:53
  Bitcoin under strategy under one company, one man, you know, 1
• 9:58
  billionaire owning 1.3 million Bitcoin.
• 10:01
  Now the math does get a little interesting if you start to look
• 10:06
  at where the price of Bitcoin might go and how long you know
• 10:11
  this process might take. Even if this takes longer than
• 10:15
  the next three months and even if Bitcoin goes up to like
• 10:18
  $200,000 per coin, I think it's pretty safe to say that he will
• 10:23
  get to 1,000,000 Bitcoin under strategy holding in their
• 10:27
  treasury very, very soon. So shouts out to roaring Ragnar.
• 10:31
  He did the math for me. So you know, I'm out sourcing my
• 10:34
  math to a Twitter post so you can Fact Check this.
• 10:37
  But you know me, I'm not that good at math, so math is not my
• 10:40
  strong suit. But anyways, he goes strategies
• 10:43
  remaining capital raising capacity is now $50 billion,
• 10:46
  enough to reach a million Bitcoin.
• 10:49
  That's an additional 500,000 Bitcoin at 100 K, 400,000
• 10:54
  Bitcoin at $125,000, or 333,333 Bitcoin AT150K, or about 250,000
• 11:03
  Bitcoin AT200K. Even if Bitcoin goes to 200K
• 11:09
  overnight, you know, by by the end of the year, which I think
• 11:12
  at this point is a long shot, you know, I'm as bullish as
• 11:15
  anyone. But 200K within what, nine
• 11:18
  months or something like that? That's even too bullish for me
• 11:21
  to say. But as long as Bitcoin is under
• 11:25
  200K and this capital raise happens within a relatively
• 11:30
  short period of time, Sailor will at minimum own a million
• 11:35
  Bitcoin most likely by the end of the year.
• 11:38
  Now we did see some Poly market odds come in and I think I think
• 11:43
  these odds are even even higher. So Bitcoin mag tweeted yesterday
• 11:48
  yeah yesterday in the evening goes now there's a 96% chance
• 11:52
  that Michael Saylor's strategy will hold over 800,000 Bitcoin
• 11:55
  on its balance sheet end of year according to polymarket.
• 11:58
  I did try to look on the polymarket site to find you know
• 12:02
  the odds on this but I I couldn't find the exact 1.
• 12:05
  So if it's fake news, I'm gonna have to blame my boy Nick over
• 12:08
  there. But but I think the odds of
• 12:15
  Sailor acquiring a million Bitcoin by the end of this year
• 12:22
  is higher than 96% at this point.
• 12:24
  I think it's like all but confirmed again if this capital
• 12:28
  raise of $44 billion, that's 80% of the Bitcoin treasury that
• 12:32
  they currently hold in dollar terms.
• 12:36
  I think he's going, I think he's going to get to 1,000,000
• 12:38
  Bitcoin by the end of this year, which really starts to highlight
• 12:42
  where we currently are. Yes, we've all been following
• 12:45
  and waiting patiently or maybe some of us not so patient for
• 12:49
  the mother of all supply shocks to happen.
• 12:53
  I think it's starting to take form here now.
• 12:57
  Obviously I can hear some of you guys, I'm not seeing you in the
• 13:00
  chat right now, but I can hear the disgruntled Bitcoiner, the
• 13:03
  hardcore Bitcoiner, the it's only real Bitcoin if you're
• 13:07
  custodying that Bitcoin, you could argue potentially that,
• 13:11
  you know, this is all paper Bitcoin.
• 13:12
  They're not actually buying Bitcoin.
• 13:14
  But from all of the data on chain data that I've seen, they
• 13:17
  are buying this Bitcoin. It's just going through Coinbase
• 13:21
  custody or Coinbase Prime custody.
• 13:23
  So you know, in theory they do own that Bitcoin.
• 13:28
  On a more technical, practical level or maybe ideological
• 13:31
  level, you could say they don't actually own that Bitcoin, but
• 13:35
  they're buying the Bitcoin. That's as far as I can tell.
• 13:39
  Obviously, very famously Sailor said, you know, proof of
• 13:42
  reserves, they're not going to do it, it's dangerous, etcetera.
• 13:45
  We don't really know the reason why he made his case, but we've
• 13:50
  seen other big Bitcoin companies do proof of reserves.
• 13:53
  But this is a, you know, trust but verify moment.
• 13:59
  I think he's buying the Bitcoin. I don't think he's going to slay
• 14:02
  his golden goose where he can literally just infinite money,
• 14:06
  glitch, raise money, buy more Bitcoin, literally use other
• 14:09
  people's money so that he can buy Bitcoin and then he just
• 14:12
  gives you a little bit of the returns, but they hold the
• 14:14
  Bitcoin. It's a genius.
• 14:17
  It's a genius play here. Sailors literally using the trad
• 14:20
  FI system, the trad FI playbooks on Bitcoin and it's absolutely
• 14:25
  taking over the world. Yes, it's still early, but the
• 14:30
  amount a Bitcoin that Sailor can potentially have by the end of
• 14:35
  this year, if all things kind of remain the same, he might own
• 14:40
  more Bitcoin than all of the ETFs in general and the ETFs
• 14:43
  currently. I don't know if you guys follow
• 14:45
  Eric Balkunis, the senior analyst, senior ETF analyst on
• 14:48
  Bloomberg, but the Bitcoin ETFs are holding up very, very well
• 14:53
  right now. The inflows are good currently.
• 14:55
  Or tweeted this morning that Bitcoin is in the top percent of
• 14:59
  all ETFs period. So institutional capital is
• 15:04
  looking at Bitcoin. Now, again, you could argue that
• 15:06
  the ETFs aren't actually buying Bitcoin.
• 15:08
  I don't necessarily think that that's the case.
• 15:11
  But if things kind of remain where they're going in the
• 15:14
  trajectory that they're going, yes, the combined ETFs will have
• 15:19
  more Bitcoin than Sailor by the end of the year.
• 15:23
  But Sailor himself, if he gets to that 1.3 million Bitcoin
• 15:27
  under strategy in their corporate treasury, that's a
• 15:31
  significant chunk of this 1.6 million Bitcoin that are in ETFs
• 15:36
  and this also has exchanges on it.
• 15:39
  Dude it's like the Breaking Bad meme at this point.
• 15:44
  Like Saylor literally cannot keep getting away with this.
• 15:47
  It's insane how he's able to raise this much capital.
• 15:51
  I, I obviously think that Sailor is doing everything from a
• 15:56
  certain Bitcoin principle. I don't think he's doing
• 15:59
  anything to really defraud people that are holding
• 16:01
  strategy. So I am on team Sailor at this
• 16:04
  point, though it does bring up a lot of conversations about the,
• 16:08
  you know, centralization of holdings amongst certain
• 16:11
  entities, which is maybe something we'll talk about on
• 16:13
  the show right now. But this amount of capital and
• 16:19
  this amount of accumulation from Sailor, we haven't seen this in
• 16:23
  the past. This is new, even though he's
• 16:26
  doing the same playbooks. It's totally a wild card.
• 16:30
  It's it's a totally new variable to where we currently are in
• 16:34
  bitcoins growth. And it's just like, man, you
• 16:37
  know, it's literally just a hat tip to Sailor.
• 16:39
  Like, you know, I know me and Nico joke about this on the show
• 16:42
  all the time. It's like, I wish we could just
• 16:44
  raise billions of dollars to buy Bitcoin from a corporate level
• 16:48
  or even an individual level. He is continuing to put on a
• 16:52
  master class right now. And of course you can, you can
• 16:56
  make, you know, you could critique him depending on what
• 16:59
  your ideological view is in Bitcoin, how hardcore you are.
• 17:03
  You could critique Sailor on his strategy, strategy, but if he is
• 17:11
  able to acquire 1.3 million Bitcoin in the face of some of
• 17:14
  the exchanges that been in Bitcoin for so long, he just
• 17:17
  comes in. And really, I don't want to say
• 17:20
  necessarily corner the corners the market because that's kind
• 17:23
  of like a derogatory framing to it.
• 17:27
  But it's really starting to look like a few things might play out
• 17:31
  in the future. One Sailor is going to make a
• 17:34
  run for the richest man in the world and strategy is making a
• 17:36
  run for being one of the most profitable or largest market
• 17:41
  caps in the world. I saw that they passed Oracle
• 17:43
  this morning on market cap, which is like insane.
• 17:47
  Literally, you know, a business analytics company that no one
• 17:51
  really knows. It's got some government
• 17:53
  contracts to make some software goes in, buys Bitcoin and just
• 18:00
  passed the. I think Larry Ellison's still
• 18:02
  the second richest man's in the world's company.
• 18:06
  I I think once Bitcoin starts making a run, Sailor is going to
• 18:10
  really start to climb the, you know, richest man in the world
• 18:14
  ladder. It.
• 18:15
  This is insane. Yeah, Nico, let's get the.
• 18:18
  Let's get the bearish. Take here.
• 18:19
  It's not a bearish take, man. It's not like right now, you
• 18:23
  know, I would say Bitcoin is at a crossroads.
• 18:27
  Bitcoin's been at a crossroads many times, and it's in its
• 18:31
  history, right? And really, you know, the
• 18:34
  question on everybody's minds is it is, is Bitcoin really ready
• 18:39
  to, to take it up a notch to, to, to go to the next level,
• 18:43
  right? And sailor, you know, literally
• 18:47
  is betting the house on that, right?
• 18:50
  He's below his average price. I think his average price is
• 18:53
  like 7273. Around I, I don't remember, but
• 18:56
  he's, he's been dollar cost averaging that billion dollars.
• 18:59
  So yeah, I think he's good. He's below his, you know, his
• 19:02
  average accumulation price. You know, he started buying
• 19:05
  Bitcoin in 21. So obviously, you know, talk
• 19:09
  about conviction. It's it's done extremely well
• 19:11
  for his stock, for his company, but the reality is that he is
• 19:16
  below his average purchase price.
• 19:18
  Now, obviously Sailor has a long, long time horizon.
• 19:22
  So he, you know, none of this really effects him so to speak,
• 19:26
  but he is really going all in, like all in, completely all in.
• 19:33
  Not only is Strategy's future tied into the future price
• 19:38
  appreciation of Bitcoin, but Stretch, one of the most popular
• 19:42
  products he's offering right now, is also completely tied
• 19:46
  into the fact that Bitcoin has to appreciate by 20 to 30% for
• 19:52
  the next 10 to 15 years for the Stretch product to even be
• 19:56
  viable, right offering that 11%, roughly 11% yield on a yearly
• 20:02
  basis. So when Sailor is, you know,
• 20:05
  Sailor is not only talking the talk, he's walking the walk like
• 20:10
  he is betting his entire company's future.
• 20:13
  I would say his his reputation, his his legacy.
• 20:21
  On this bet, right and you know talk about conviction.
• 20:26
  This is conviction in 4K right in front of your face.
• 20:30
  Now here's the thing everybody, this isn't too crazy in terms
• 20:35
  of, of approaching it from a Bitcoin lens because you know
• 20:41
  every bitcoiner at one point or the other, at least you know the
• 20:44
  classes that me and Opti were part of.
• 20:46
  You end up 100% or 110% or 120% into Bitcoin like you are your,
• 20:55
  your conviction is bulletproof in that sense.
• 20:59
  The only difference here is the magnitude, the magnitude of the
• 21:03
  bat, right? The publicity of the bat, the
• 21:07
  fact that this bet has to do with the traditional markets
• 21:10
  that's really the the only fundamental different difference
• 21:14
  between what Michael Saylor is doing and what the rest of us
• 21:19
  did for many many years before Wall Street got into Bitcoin,
• 21:24
  which is is a relatively new phenomenon right.
• 21:26
  The ETF was approved in January of 2024 and sailors Bitcoin
• 21:32
  strategy really only started in 2021 right He made his the
• 21:37
  famous announcement at the Bitcoin 2021 conference here in
• 21:40
  Miami right but fundamentally he's doing exactly the same
• 21:45
  thing that the rest of us did right, which is we went all in
• 21:50
  obviously sailor has the ability and the experience to leverage
• 21:56
  the traditional financial markets again to raise capital
• 22:00
  to continue to buy more Bitcoin. Some people call it, you know,
• 22:04
  the an attack on the dollar, an attack on the system.
• 22:09
  You can call it whatever you. Speculative attack.
• 22:11
  Speculative attack, you can call it whatever you want, but the
• 22:14
  fact is this is a matter of fact.
• 22:16
  This is not an opinion. This is not just my perspective
• 22:19
  is he's leveraging the capital markets to raise more money to
• 22:24
  buy more Bitcoin and the capital markets are going along with it.
• 22:27
  The capital markets are indicating that, hey, listen, we
• 22:30
  like Sailor's strategy. I think it's working.
• 22:33
  And that's the reason that's the only reason he's able to
• 22:36
  continue to raise money to continue to buy more Bitcoin.
• 22:39
  Now here's the thing, all of this will work as long as
• 22:43
  Bitcoins price continues to appreciate.
• 22:46
  And I think that's the question, right?
• 22:49
  And this is where your own personal conviction, you know,
• 22:54
  comes into the equation, right? Do you believe that Bitcoin
• 22:59
  could be at 500 K by 20-30? Can you believe that Bitcoin can
• 23:05
  get into the 250,300 thousand $400,000 levels?
• 23:11
  Is that possible? Can you conceive of that future?
• 23:15
  And I would say, yes, I can conceive of that future, but
• 23:19
  it's still one thing is conceiving of that future, and
• 23:22
  one thing is actually experiencing that future.
• 23:25
  Because even though we all knew that 100K Bitcoin was coming,
• 23:30
  when Bitcoin hit 100K, it still felt, you know, very special,
• 23:36
  right? It still felt slightly euphoric,
• 23:39
  right? It still felt like, Oh my God,
• 23:41
  like we actually achieved something.
• 23:43
  Because you know, you can have the greatest theory on earth,
• 23:47
  but if the markets don't, you know, if the markets don't show
• 23:52
  that, then it's just the theory at the end of the day, you know,
• 23:56
  one thing is talking about absolute scarcity.
• 23:59
  One thing is talking about bitcoins total addressable
• 24:02
  market cap. You know, what is it like 400
• 24:04
  trillion? One thing's you know, one thing
• 24:07
  is throwing out all these price predictions.
• 24:09
  One thing is reading Hal Finney's famous post on, you
• 24:14
  know, the on the Bitcoin talk forums, you know, talking about
• 24:17
  $10 million Bitcoin. And the other thing is Bitcoin
• 24:20
  actually achieving those prices, Bitcoin actually reaching those
• 24:24
  levels, right. So I think Bitcoin coin right
• 24:27
  now is at a crossroads. It really fundamentally is.
• 24:30
  And what I feel about this market, as I've been telling you
• 24:33
  guys for months now, is that really for the first time I feel
• 24:38
  uncertainty in the markets, right?
• 24:40
  We rode this, this wave of Bitcoin was this sure thing.
• 24:46
  It was 100% guaranteed to win. You know, this thing was gonna
• 24:51
  go to half $1,000,000 per coin. We got the first Bitcoin
• 24:54
  president elected. All of that was happening.
• 24:57
  I, I remember it like, you know, it was all happening.
• 25:01
  It was it was guaranteed. And then, you know, the, the
• 25:05
  this this current Bitcoin cycle didn't perform to a lot of
• 25:11
  people's expectations. And I think that let a lot of
• 25:15
  people down. It definitely wiped out a lot of
• 25:18
  the tourists. But as any other good Bitcoiner
• 25:22
  would do, instead of sailor capitulating, do you guys
• 25:26
  remember the conversations that you had with your parents, your
• 25:29
  family and friends and whatever when you first got into Bitcoin?
• 25:33
  You got absolute, we wrecked. You're down 50% on your
• 25:37
  position, 60% on your position, 70% on your position.
• 25:41
  And then what happened, right? You got those calls and you got
• 25:44
  those texts from your parents, your friends, you know, they're
• 25:47
  like, are you OK? You know, this Bitcoin thing is
• 25:49
  stupid, but what you do, you stuck to your conviction and
• 25:53
  then you got vindicated, right? So this next cycle is really
• 25:59
  going to be a different cycle. It really, really is, because
• 26:03
  Sailor is going to be vindicated on the world stage.
• 26:07
  Sailor is going to be vindicated to Wall Street.
• 26:10
  He is setting himself up to be literally one of the richest man
• 26:16
  on the planet. He's setting strategy to be one
• 26:20
  of the largest companies by market cap on planet Earth.
• 26:24
  If the Bitcoin theory plays out, strategy is not not just a small
• 26:30
  software company anymore. It is competing with the likes
• 26:35
  of Google, with the likes of Meta, with the likes of Tesla.
• 26:39
  That is the leagues that strategy is positioning itself
• 26:43
  to be in right. The only question again, I'm,
• 26:46
  I'm I continue to harp and going back to this.
• 26:49
  The only question is, is Bitcoin going to perform?
• 26:52
  Is Bitcoin really going to get to those new highs?
• 26:56
  Can Bitcoin get to those new highs?
• 26:58
  Is there an of capital going into Bitcoin for it to capital
• 27:03
  catapult into these new price levels?
• 27:06
  That is the question. That is a question that
• 27:08
  everybody's thinking that is it. That's that's the million SAT
• 27:12
  question. If people knew the answer to
• 27:15
  this question, strategy stock price would already be at $1000
• 27:20
  plus, right? That's the reality.
• 27:22
  But this is Sailor's bet. But remember, this is a bet that
• 27:26
  you made yourself as an individual Bitcoiner when you
• 27:30
  got in. The only difference is that
• 27:33
  Sailor is able to raise a lot more capital than you.
• 27:37
  That's the only fundamental difference.
• 27:39
  But first principles, basics, he's doing the exact same thing
• 27:45
  that the rest of us have been doing for years.
• 27:48
  It just gets a lot more coverage, gets a lot more press
• 27:51
  coverage, because these are billions of dollars at stake.
• 27:54
  And man, oh man, is he putting his entire company on the line.
• 27:59
  His legacy, He's either going to go down or this guy's going to
• 28:05
  become a legend in the financial markets, you know, for the next
• 28:09
  100 years, right? Yeah, without a doubt.
• 28:11
  There is no, there's no in between.
• 28:14
  There's no in between. And it kind of reminds me of it
• 28:16
  reminds me of his prediction. It's either going to millions or
• 28:19
  zero. I'm either going down to hero,
• 28:21
  I'm going down to 0 it totally. Is and it and it, it kind of
• 28:24
  reminds me of, you know, and again, it's totally different
• 28:27
  industry, like a totally different entrepreneur, totally
• 28:29
  different business. But it reminds me of, you know,
• 28:33
  Elon's early days in SpaceX, right?
• 28:37
  You know, it's very famous. Yeah, what's it the famous quote
• 28:40
  we always. Say, yeah, I know, but that so
• 28:42
  like Elon's quote is like basically like starting a
• 28:44
  company is like eating glass and like jumping into the abyss.
• 28:47
  But put put that aside, like the early days of SpaceX were crazy.
• 28:51
  So essentially he took all the money that he made from PayPal
• 28:55
  and he invested it into Tesla and he invested into SpaceX,
• 28:59
  right? That's what Elon Musk did in the
• 29:01
  in the early days, but big. But the first two SpaceX rockets
• 29:09
  blew up. And if the third rocket blew up,
• 29:13
  essentially he would have been bankrupt.
• 29:15
  He would have gone completely out of business.
• 29:18
  The third rocket did not blow up.
• 29:21
  And SpaceX right now by market caps, one of, you know, it's
• 29:25
  the, you know, space company. There is no competition.
• 29:31
  So again, you know, fortune favors the the bull, fortune
• 29:35
  favors the bold. And this is a very bold bet by
• 29:38
  Michael Saylor. And it all, it all really
• 29:42
  depends on Bitcoin. Is Bitcoin going to live up to
• 29:48
  what we think it's all going to live up to?
• 29:50
  Dude, is that yeah? Is that really an if though?
• 29:53
  I mean call. You that bearish?
• 29:54
  No, no, no, no. I'm trying.
• 29:56
  To I know you can't believe that I know that's a rhetorical tool
• 29:58
  I'm. Trying to be neutral here, dude.
• 30:00
  We're not neutral. Of course we're.
• 30:02
  Not neutral, but we're bullish. But I'm trying to, like, lay out
• 30:05
  the groundwork and like, just show you guys basically like,
• 30:09
  look, like this is what's at stake.
• 30:12
  This is the big bet. This is the big bet that Michael
• 30:15
  Saylor is making. This is what's at stake.
• 30:19
  We've believed, right? But it's a lot easier for us to
• 30:22
  say that. Bro.
• 30:23
  We got in in 20/16/2017, yeah. But you don't think it's You
• 30:27
  don't think Bitcoin's. Over the price is at a couple
• 30:29
  $1000 per coin. Like now it's at $70,000 per
• 30:32
  coin. Guys, hold on, Nico's just being
• 30:34
  a politician here 'cause I know he doesn't think Bitcoin is not
• 30:38
  going up. What do you mean?
• 30:40
  The your, your if is the question that Bitcoin isn't
• 30:43
  going to continue to go up like we.
• 30:45
  I know, I know that you believe it's going up.
• 30:48
  Of course, I believe. OK, OK, alright.
• 30:50
  That's the, that's the debate. I couldn't run simply Bitcoin,
• 30:54
  right? We we couldn't bait.
• 30:56
  I get that like on the short term, but long term that's our
• 30:59
  thesis that Bitcoin's going up. It has to that's what I'm
• 31:02
  saying, OK, Bitcoin is binary, OK.
• 31:04
  So it's not that big of an if. I guess it is an if.
• 31:07
  Of course it's an if. Of course it's a big if.
• 31:10
  Like, of course it's a big if, guys, if this was a sure thing.
• 31:14
  Like if this was a sure thing, the price of Bitcoin would
• 31:17
  already be at $1,000,000 per coin.
• 31:20
  Yeah. And Saylor actually even said
• 31:21
  this like in a he was like on a podcast or he was on stage or
• 31:25
  something like that, and he was talking about this specifically.
• 31:28
  He said he's like, look, by the time the bankers tell you to buy
• 31:32
  Bitcoin, it's going to be at $10 million per coin.
• 31:36
  That's what he said. You are taking a risk right now
• 31:40
  when you're buying Bitcoin. But that, that risk exactly for
• 31:45
  us, for us, it's not a risk because we're completely bought
• 31:48
  in. We, we, we, we understand the
• 31:49
  fundamentals. We understand the theory.
• 31:52
  But, and again, it's a, it's a fantastic from, from a risk
• 32:00
  adjusted return perspective right now, you know, it's a lot
• 32:05
  less risky than when Bitcoin was $1000 per coin, right?
• 32:09
  Back then, it was complete Wild West territory.
• 32:11
  Still, it's still, it's still Wild West territory in my
• 32:15
  opinion. Like you still have crazy
• 32:17
  volatility, but the volatility represents opportunity, right?
• 32:22
  So listen, Michael Saylor is betting the house, his Strat,
• 32:28
  his company, his legacy, his reputation, all on the future
• 32:33
  price appreciation of Bitcoin. And what should that tell you?
• 32:37
  That tells you that this man is 100% convinced that Bitcoin is
• 32:42
  going to be half, $1,000,000 per coin.
• 32:44
  This man is 100% convinced that Bitcoin is going to be millions
• 32:48
  of dollars per coin. He's 100% convinced of that and
• 32:52
  he's willing to stake his entire company on that fact, right?
• 32:56
  So of course, Opti and I completely believe that as well.
• 32:59
  Why You were saying, yeah, I was going to say like, we literally
• 33:01
  did the same thing. We just don't take other
• 33:03
  people's money. But these are, but these are,
• 33:05
  these are, these are orders of magnitude.
• 33:08
  That's true. Bigger.
• 33:09
  Yeah. We're peanuts.
• 33:10
  Than than you know what you know the individuals did in the early
• 33:15
  days of Bitcoin and that's. Really what I got to say about
• 33:18
  that, You're true. I agree.
• 33:20
  I agree. I just, it's just maybe I'm
• 33:23
  doing the chats bidding. I'm like Nico, dude, guys, Nico
• 33:26
  believes it's going up. You know, he, he's just being a
• 33:29
  conservative CEO here. You know he's being a politician
• 33:32
  on air. I'm not being a conservative
• 33:34
  CEO, bro. I'm just laying out the facts.
• 33:36
  You know, like these are the facts, bro.
• 33:38
  Like these are the facts. My facts.
• 33:39
  Are your facts? No, I'm just telling.
• 33:42
  I'm just telling these. Are the facts like the the facts
• 33:45
  are? Is that like look like guys?
• 33:47
  Whether however, which way you want to interpret this, however
• 33:51
  which way you want to see this? This is the reality ladies and
• 33:55
  gentlemen, this is the reality. The reality is, does Bitcoin
• 34:00
  have it in it for it to go to these new highs?
• 34:03
  If it does, Michael Saylor is going to be one of the richest
• 34:06
  man on earth. If it does, you have the
• 34:09
  opportunity to be a millionaire today.
• 34:13
  For 69,150 dollars, $69,150 will make you a millionaire today,
• 34:19
  right? That's the thesis.
• 34:21
  That's the thesis, that's the basic thesis.
• 34:23
  So how long is that gonna take? Who knows?
• 34:27
  Is it gonna happen in the next 5 years?
• 34:29
  Who knows is it gonna happen in the next 10 years?
• 34:33
  Probably. So Big balls.
• 34:37
  Huge balls. Giga, Chad.
• 34:40
  Conviction cojones, bro cojones. I'll be honest with you guys,
• 34:46
  I'm not a stock guy. I'm not a stock guy, but, you
• 34:50
  know, strategy. Or MSTR is going to like $500.
• 34:55
  Strategy does look very, again, strategy does look very
• 34:58
  appealing. I, I, I'll be honest with you,
• 35:00
  like with the amount of Bitcoin that they're accumulating, bro,
• 35:02
  Like we're not a treasury company channel whatsoever, but
• 35:06
  like with what they're doing, bro, Like, holy shit, that's
• 35:10
  what I got to say. I'd agree.
• 35:13
  Anyways, guys, we're going to start the show.
• 35:15
  We have tons to cover. We have Svetsky joining us in a
• 35:18
  little bit, so it's going to be a hell of a show, guys, Stay
• 35:20
  tuned in. We still have tons to cover.
• 35:22
  We're going to be right back in just a bit.
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  se-ed.com website. At the time of recording, the
• 38:10
  Bitcoin price is 69 thousand $69,180 sats per dollar 1446
• 38:20
  block height 942,023 realized monetary inflation .83% market
• 38:27
  capitalization 1.38 trillion Bitcoin versus gold market cap
• 38:32
  4.62% percentage issued 95.26% decline from all time high.
• 38:39
  We're currently sitting at a 45% dip, 45% dip.
• 38:43
  So if you're buying Bitcoin right now, you're getting it at
• 38:46
  a 45% discount. All right, let's move on to the
• 38:51
  numbers. What are we talking about today
• 38:53
  anyways? Interest Interesting clip.
• 38:54
  I'm so proud to be a Floridian, DeSantis says.
• 38:59
  The quiet part out loud. What's the deal with property
• 39:04
  taxes? They make no sense.
• 39:05
  Let's check it out level of. Ongoing taxpayer.
• 39:10
  No, you should own your property free and clear.
• 39:12
  I I think to say that someone that's been in their house for
• 39:15
  35 years just has to keep ponying up money that you know
• 39:20
  that is not. You don't own your home if
• 39:22
  that's the, if that's the case. So yes, of course I'd like to
• 39:25
  see people be able to owe, owe free and clear.
• 39:28
  And it's interesting because it's like you, you know, if I go
• 39:33
  to Best Buy and buy a flat screen TV and put it on the
• 39:35
  wall, I got to pay a sales tax on it, right?
• 39:37
  But I don't keep paying tax on it every year.
• 39:40
  I mean, it's just not, that's not how we we do things.
• 39:43
  It's like, OK, if you're going to tax something, you tax it at
• 39:45
  the transaction and then let people actually enjoy their free
• 39:51
  their their private property free and clear of the
• 39:53
  government. That I think is the vision.
• 39:55
  That's the philosophical insight.
• 39:57
  And if you think about our founding fathers when they were
• 40:01
  proposing the Constitution and one of The Federalist Papers, I
• 40:04
  think it was Hamilton he's writing about because, you know,
• 40:07
  there was opposition of the Constitution.
• 40:09
  They were making a more powerful.
• 40:11
  Federal government than under the Articles of Confederation
• 40:14
  and people worried about taxation and they didn't have
• 40:17
  obviously a 16th Amendment, which eventually came on income
• 40:19
  tax. But so he keeps going.
• 40:21
  But and right now that bill specifically in the Florida
• 40:25
  legislature, it it got stuck in the House.
• 40:27
  So it passed the House. Right now it's having trouble
• 40:30
  passing the Senate. But most importantly, what it's
• 40:34
  doing is it's moving the Overton window and I and I always talk
• 40:37
  to you about I haven't, I don't think I've said the word Overton
• 40:40
  window in a while. Dude, Overton Window has not
• 40:42
  been on the bingo card lately. So, and, and this is so
• 40:45
  important because it's being discussed.
• 40:47
  Like think about that for a second, right?
• 40:49
  And This is why Bitcoin is so, so powerful.
• 40:52
  The idea of Bitcoin is so powerful.
• 40:55
  I don't have the, the tweet posted on with me right now, but
• 40:59
  there's this, there's this tweet going on X.
• 41:01
  There's this post going on X. It was going around yesterday
• 41:04
  and it was essentially talking about the fact that basically
• 41:09
  this person left some money on the Robin Hood account.
• 41:13
  And because he wasn't active for three years, basically the state
• 41:17
  of Pennsylvania was just going to just, you know, claim the
• 41:21
  funds or, or something like that, right?
• 41:23
  So it goes back to this idea of look what is what is property
• 41:30
  right like? It is is.
• 41:32
  Your home if you're if you're paying yearly tax to live in
• 41:37
  your home, is that really your home or as DeSantis said, not
• 41:43
  Nico Moran or Optimus Fields on simply Bitcoin?
• 41:46
  Or are you really just paying rent to the government?
• 41:49
  Right. And then this goes all the way
• 41:52
  back to Bitcoin goes full circle because everything kind of goes
• 41:55
  back to Bitcoin. If if you go, if you, if you go
• 41:57
  deep enough, if you have Bitcoin in self custody, which is why we
• 42:02
  advocate for self custody so strongly on this channel.
• 42:07
  Think about that for a second. There is, there isn't going to
• 42:11
  be a, a, a letter from the state of Pennsylvania saying, hey,
• 42:15
  this Bitcoin wallet has been acted inactive for 10 years and
• 42:18
  now the state of Pennsylvania is getting, you know, it's is going
• 42:21
  to, you know, take it because it's been inactive or hey,
• 42:25
  because you didn't pay your property taxes on your home, you
• 42:30
  know, now we're, we're, we're going to essentially take it
• 42:33
  away from you, even though you, you paid for it outright.
• 42:37
  No, doesn't apply. I think they're going to try, I
• 42:41
  think property taxes on Bitcoin. I think it's an inevitability in
• 42:45
  some countries for sure, because as homes become more of a
• 42:49
  utility rather than an investment, because that's how
• 42:53
  homes are today because of Fiat currencies, right?
• 42:57
  Where essentially, if you have Fiat, if you have an excess
• 43:01
  amount of liquidity or capital, you're forced to invest that
• 43:06
  just to maintain its purchasing power.
• 43:09
  And on a Bitcoin standard, that's not the case.
• 43:12
  Your money, not only does it maintain its purchasing power,
• 43:17
  your purchasing power actually increases over time and you have
• 43:21
  full custody of that said asset, right?
• 43:25
  So it kind of changes the conversation a little bit.
• 43:27
  And again, it move it and moves the balance of power from the
• 43:32
  state back to the individual, right?
• 43:36
  It's a lot easier right, to, you know, move your property across
• 43:41
  borders to more favorable jurisdictions with A12 word seed
• 43:45
  phrase that you can memorize. If you're in a mind then putting
• 43:49
  a house on your back, that doesn't seem very viable, does
• 43:52
  it? Right?
• 43:53
  Anyways, these are very interesting times.
• 43:55
  These are monumental times. This is a pivotal shift in human
• 43:59
  history. It's extremely exciting.
• 44:03
  I think there's going to, I'm calling it right now, there's
• 44:06
  going to be more change in the next 10 years then I think we've
• 44:13
  seen in the last 3030 years in human history.
• 44:16
  You have AI, you have robotics, you have Bitcoin as money, you
• 44:22
  have stable coins propagating around planet Earth, right?
• 44:26
  Allowing basically the global economy to interact with the US
• 44:30
  economy. You have people being able to
• 44:33
  send money freely anywhere around the world, pennies on the
• 44:37
  dollar. Like this is a brave new world.
• 44:41
  This is a world I think we're heading into a moment in human
• 44:45
  history of which we've never seen before.
• 44:49
  And I think the amount of freedom that's going to come
• 44:52
  with it is something that again, we've never seen before.
• 44:55
  There's no moment in history that you can point to and say,
• 44:59
  oh, that was very similar. No, you have self driving cars,
• 45:03
  you have autonomous robots, right?
• 45:05
  You literally have undebaseable money.
• 45:09
  You have censorship resistance money, right?
• 45:13
  This is this is a paradigm shift.
• 45:17
  And the question for you guys is, are you guys ready?
• 45:20
  Are you prepared for what's to come?
• 45:22
  The days of you getting a college degree, getting a job,
• 45:27
  you know, getting a pension, those days are long gone.
• 45:32
  The robots are coming for your jobs, AI is coming for your
• 45:36
  jobs, right? That's the reality.
• 45:39
  This is the reality, ladies and gentlemen, and we have two
• 45:42
  futures ahead of us. We have Bitcoin or slavery.
• 45:46
  We have Bitcoin or central bank digital currencies.
• 45:49
  There's going to be no in between because the powers that
• 45:52
  be are not going to want today's system to change.
• 45:56
  And the only way they can continue today's system of
• 46:00
  coercion and theft and endless wars is a world with central
• 46:05
  bank digital currencies. And the only way they can get
• 46:09
  people to go along with central bank digital currencies is with
• 46:12
  the digital ID, because this is how it's going to work.
• 46:16
  Ready. If you don't have a digital ID,
• 46:18
  you're not going to be able to do anything.
• 46:21
  You can vote without ID, but you're not going to be.
• 46:23
  Able to do anything. Else right, that's the reality
• 46:26
  that's the future ahead of us ladies and gentlemen and this is
• 46:30
  where Bitcoin comes in this is where Bitcoin comes in Bitcoin
• 46:33
  is going to be the only tool that you're going to be able to
• 46:37
  use to maintain your sovereignty as an individual that's the
• 46:43
  reality that's the truth that's the part that people are not
• 46:47
  talking about We're talking about number go up we're talking
• 46:50
  about treasury companies yeah strategy, that sounds exciting
• 46:54
  that sounds fascinating. That sounds like a great
• 46:56
  investment, but is it spot Bitcoin?
• 46:59
  Absolutely not. Is it Bitcoin in self custody?
• 47:02
  Nope, not, not at all. Not even not even in the
• 47:04
  slightest, right. So anyways, I'm glad the Overton
• 47:08
  windows is moving. I'm super, I'm super proud to be
• 47:12
  a Floridian. I'm kind of bummed out that is
• 47:16
  Desantis's last term in office, last year in office.
• 47:19
  But yeah, it's very, very exciting stuff.
• 47:22
  Opti, I want to get your take. Then we'll move on to the next
• 47:24
  segment. We got a guest joining us today.
• 47:26
  We got Alex Svetsky, which we're we're really excited that.
• 47:31
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the only thing
• 47:34
  to add is that because what we're seeing in Florida and also
• 47:39
  Texas to some extent you're starting to already see, you
• 47:42
  know, capital fleet. I think I saw a metric earlier
• 47:45
  that from California, I think just itself in the last year or
• 47:50
  so, it's like 250, I think it was billion that has left the
• 47:54
  state, you know, looking for better jurisdictions and if
• 47:58
  Florida's able to do this, you know, no property tax law to go
• 48:03
  through and they eliminate property tax like Florida is
• 48:06
  like the only state to be living in unless other P or other
• 48:09
  states follow this and and you're.
• 48:11
  They're they're going. To it's, yeah, I know, I know,
• 48:13
  but that's what I'm saying. It's like it's going to happen
• 48:16
  or else every other state is just going to have not only like
• 48:20
  a brain drain, but a capital drain.
• 48:22
  And, and this is what you love to see.
• 48:24
  It's the one thing we've been saying for a long time, that
• 48:26
  capital goes where it's treated best.
• 48:28
  And we're seeing this happen not just in the Bitcoin space, but
• 48:31
  also within state jurisdictions. It's like, this is beautiful to
• 48:35
  see. It really is the sovereign
• 48:36
  individual, you know, balkanization of the US.
• 48:39
  It's that it's actually kind of insane to watch.
• 48:42
  Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, we have
• 48:43
  one of the most maxi Bitcoiners on earth joining us on the show
• 48:49
  today. We have Alex Fetsky.
• 48:52
  He's gonna be joining us right after the break.
• 48:54
  We're gonna be right back in just a bit.
• 48:57
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  code simply. Welcome.
• 51:37
  Welcome, Fetsky. How you doing, bro?
• 51:39
  It's good to see you. Yeah, man, I think we're going
• 51:44
  to just start with that, bro. What have you been up to lately?
• 51:47
  What? I actually saw a post, and I
• 51:48
  think this might be a good way to transition into set Atlantis
• 51:52
  as well. But maybe we just recap what?
• 51:56
  You know what? Where have you been, man?
• 51:57
  You're not on the Internet right now.
• 51:59
  You know, you're in real life. How's life outside of Twitter?
• 52:04
  Amazing. Oh, man.
• 52:10
  All right. I've been messing around.
• 52:12
  I've been like watching the little guy grow.
• 52:15
  Little boy. He's he's just turned.
• 52:17
  He'll be seven months next week. Congrats.
• 52:19
  Bro, thank you. It's it's.
• 52:22
  Damn, has it been seven months since you've been on the show?
• 52:25
  Has it been that long? I don't know.
• 52:27
  I don't know. I feel like you weren't on the
• 52:30
  show last time and you were about to have a kid.
• 52:35
  It might have been, I thought maybe fuck, who knows man.
• 52:38
  Yeah, who does? At this point, yeah, so been
• 52:41
  traveling around. We went to Dubai and and Bali
• 52:45
  for a little bit, which was fucking great.
• 52:47
  I've just been building, me and a couple boys got together and
• 52:51
  we're building this. Really cool sauna, cold plunge
• 52:55
  longevity recovery center here where we, where we live.
• 52:59
  So lots of stuff, man. It's, it's really good.
• 53:02
  You'd be you'd be amazed at how much shit you can do basically
• 53:07
  by just not being online. Yeah, I mean, dude, you always
• 53:11
  have a bunch of projects, so it's hard to keep track of how
• 53:14
  many projects you're doing at one time.
• 53:16
  But as I mentioned it, and it did pop up for a moment for us
• 53:21
  here and for our chat, I know we are all chronically online and I
• 53:27
  think in the last couple of weeks, hence why I started like,
• 53:30
  where have you been? I think we're all, I don't know,
• 53:33
  maybe getting demoralized with the Internet or we're all
• 53:35
  starting to see the problems with the Internet and now
• 53:37
  everything is maxing. And I saw one of your posts of
• 53:40
  real life maxing. So what?
• 53:42
  What is this and what should the people be doing?
• 53:46
  Yeah, I, I came and I posted this one really quickly, but you
• 53:49
  know, like I'm posting more on sub stack here and there.
• 53:54
  And I do like these kind of like more longer form because I
• 53:58
  still, I enjoy writing long form, bro, you know me, I'm,
• 54:00
  I've been writing for years. You know, I'm still a writer.
• 54:02
  That's that's like, I enjoy experimenting with ideas.
• 54:06
  And then someone told me they're like, oh, you know, you can post
• 54:09
  long form on Twitter now. I was like, OK, so I just jumped
• 54:12
  on there really quickly and posted that.
• 54:14
  It got 0 traction, obviously. And.
• 54:17
  Well, that's why you're here, bro.
• 54:18
  That's why you're here. We'll we'll help you spread the
• 54:20
  message. No, fuck it, if people want to
• 54:22
  say anything, they can go to sub stack, you know, there like I, I
• 54:25
  do one essay a month there still.
• 54:27
  But yeah, man, the the the premise of the thing was I
• 54:33
  again, you know me, I've always been a contrarian.
• 54:36
  That'll always be in my blood. If whenever I see the masses go
• 54:41
  anywhere, I just want to run somewhere else.
• 54:43
  And it's the same for me with Bitcoin, it's the same for me
• 54:47
  with the Internet. It's the same for me with
• 54:49
  Twitter. It's the same for me with
• 54:52
  fucking general political opinions.
• 54:54
  The same for me with all of it. Right.
• 54:56
  Whenever I see the the the mass adoption start to occur, I just
• 55:00
  have 0 interest in being involved anymore.
• 55:03
  And that's not to say that it shouldn't happen.
• 55:07
  It's like, you know, that's always part of the process.
• 55:09
  And I'm glad to see, you know, more Bitcoin adoption, more
• 55:13
  movement to right wing political opinions, you know, all of this
• 55:19
  stuff. I'm happy to see that.
• 55:20
  But it, you know, when that happens, I'm then personally
• 55:26
  looking for what is the next frontier?
• 55:28
  Where is the few people? And to me, the the new frontier
• 55:33
  is experiential. The new frontier is social
• 55:36
  networking moving back offline, right?
• 55:39
  The new frontier is catching up with people in the real world.
• 55:42
  The new frontier is, you know, not going Amish.
• 55:45
  I think this is a mistake that, you know, most people make when
• 55:48
  they sort of hear this. They're like, oh, yeah, OK, so
• 55:50
  you're going to go live off the fucking land and fuck the cows
• 55:53
  and the sheep and all that good stuff.
• 55:55
  Know what I'm saying? What I'm saying is that you
• 55:57
  intelligently use technology. So like the, the place that
• 56:01
  we're building here locally, you know, we're, we're getting some
• 56:04
  really fucking high tech equipment where, you know, the
• 56:08
  technologies used to enhance your health.
• 56:11
  But it's like again, in the real world, right?
• 56:14
  What we're doing with Atlantis, also very similar.
• 56:17
  It's now it's, you know, it's purely an events app and a place
• 56:21
  to build offline communities or hybrid communities, right?
• 56:25
  So if people want to catch up in real life, this is the best
• 56:27
  place to to figure that out. So yeah, man, I'm just kind of
• 56:31
  like aligning all of my life, everything I do in such a way
• 56:35
  that I want to explore this new frontier.
• 56:38
  And I'm sure in the next 5-10 years or whatever, every
• 56:42
  motherfucker is going to start like, you know, the, the trendy
• 56:45
  thing will be to be offline and every motherfucker will be back
• 56:47
  here. So then I'm sure something else
• 56:50
  will occur and then I'll be exploring that so that I can get
• 56:53
  away from the masses again. Yeah, I totally hear that.
• 56:57
  I've I've noticed that myself. I'm I, I was joking and, and
• 57:01
  again, Setsky, we're on YouTube so we can't go too hard, you
• 57:04
  know, but I was joking with my friends the other day.
• 57:07
  I'm like, man, you know, all the conspiracy theories are right
• 57:10
  now like what's the next wave here?
• 57:12
  You know, during the 2020 era, we were still like ahead of the
• 57:16
  curve. And now it seems like every
• 57:19
  average normie person is like a crazy conspiracy theorist.
• 57:23
  And now it's like we're coming back to wait.
• 57:25
  Maybe everything's not a conspiracy, but like, what is
• 57:28
  the next wave? And I think a lot of us that
• 57:31
  have been in Bitcoin for a while are, are feeling something
• 57:33
  similar. And I know personally, yes, I
• 57:35
  work online, yes, I'm chronically on Twitter, but I
• 57:38
  need to unplug or else I feel like I'm going to lose my mind.
• 57:41
  So I'm, I'm totally on board. And I think the last time you
• 57:44
  were on, we were talking about this.
• 57:45
  But before I, I do have another question I want to ask you.
• 57:48
  But before we do that, you brought up S Atlantis.
• 57:50
  So I think it's a perfect segue. Let's talk about South Atlantis
• 57:53
  real quick for the people that are unfamiliar with what you're
• 57:56
  building, you know where they can find it and all that good
• 57:59
  stuff. And then and then we'll flush
• 58:00
  out a little more of the conversation.
• 58:01
  Just me wanting to pick your brain at this point.
• 58:04
  Yeah, I mean, when I mean, I, you guys have seen the journey,
• 58:07
  right. So Atlantis started as this big
• 58:09
  brain idea to like connect Bitcoiners with sovereign
• 58:12
  individuals, this, that and, you know, all through like a social
• 58:14
  network. In the end, I realized that that
• 58:17
  was too complicated and it was trying to bootstrap the network
• 58:23
  from scratch is, you know, very, very hard to do.
• 58:25
  So we simplify the product, simple as that.
• 58:28
  It's basically a Luma with with Bitcoin infrastructure built
• 58:35
  into it. So, you know, events every time
• 58:39
  you spin up an event comes with a Bitcoin wallet.
• 58:40
  Also has Stripe integration so you can accept Bitcoin and
• 58:43
  Stripe payments. You can run paid events, fruit
• 58:45
  events, meetups, you can build the community out in the next
• 58:49
  month or two, we'll introduce community layer where you can
• 58:53
  have memberships, right? So you could host the run club,
• 58:56
  you could do a women's club and entrepreneurs club, you know,
• 58:59
  local Bitcoin club, whatever. And you can have memberships
• 59:01
  associated to it as well. So it's really like designed for
• 59:06
  connecting people in real life, right?
• 59:08
  Because that's, that's where I think the, the, the social
• 59:12
  networking is moving. You know, like there was a time
• 59:16
  when social networking was done offline, then it became online,
• 59:20
  then social networking became social media, which I think
• 59:23
  we've discussed before. And now social networking is
• 59:25
  kind of coming full circle to become an offline phenomenon
• 59:27
  again. And I, I really think what
• 59:30
  people are going to do is they're going to form these
• 59:33
  offline clubs, right? And some of them will be very
• 59:36
  informal. You know, they're not going to
• 59:38
  need a platform to run it, but some of them are going to be
• 59:40
  more formalized and they're going to be probably run like
• 59:42
  businesses. There's entrepreneurs club or
• 59:46
  founders club that I'm a part of in Bali actually, because you
• 59:50
  know, I'm, I'm going to be going to Bali more often now.
• 59:52
  And you know, it's a, it's basically, it's very, it's very
• 59:56
  gated. And what I mean by that is like
• 1:00:00
  they, they limit it. It's very small.
• 1:00:04
  You have to have either, you know, run a business for a
• 1:00:06
  certain amount of time, had an exit, generate a certain amount
• 1:00:09
  of revenue, etcetera. And you know, there's kind of
• 1:00:11
  like 40-50 members in that club now and it's really high quality
• 1:00:15
  contacts. And for me, that's really
• 1:00:17
  interesting. Now, you know, I get to meet
• 1:00:19
  these people in real life, you know, dinners, compounds, you
• 1:00:22
  know, they run retreats that they run sort of like 20-30
• 1:00:24
  events a month. So we're building this platform
• 1:00:27
  for someone like that to manage the communities, the events, the
• 1:00:30
  calendars and all of that sort of stuff in one place.
• 1:00:32
  So, you know, for the context of Bitcoiners, you know, we have
• 1:00:36
  finally, you know, everyone sort of in Bitcoin.
• 1:00:38
  It's funny, they complain about meetup.com is shit.
• 1:00:42
  You know, I hate paying the membership fee for the meet up
• 1:00:44
  for meetup.com. It sucks and this and that, but
• 1:00:47
  there's no alternative. You know, Luma came around as a
• 1:00:50
  good alternative, but for those who don't know, it's like a
• 1:00:55
  Solana bro thing. You know, Solana funded it or
• 1:00:59
  Ethereum funded it. One of those guys, I think it's
• 1:01:00
  Solana that funded it. So we just built basically a
• 1:01:03
  Bitcoin equivalent. It's it's got all the features
• 1:01:06
  set that you find in Luma, but you have Bitcoin payments, you
• 1:01:09
  can do Bitcoin donations, you can send Bitcoin from the event
• 1:01:13
  to the attendees. So we've seen people basically
• 1:01:16
  run underground poker games basically where the buy in is a
• 1:01:20
  ticket and the winner of the game, it gets paid out by the
• 1:01:26
  event. So, so you can do all sorts of
• 1:01:27
  interesting stuff on it. So yeah, we, that's what we are.
• 1:01:32
  It's a it's an events app with a calendar feature and a community
• 1:01:35
  feature coming soon with Bitcoin built into its DNA.
• 1:01:39
  Got it, love it. I'm I'm familiar with it.
• 1:01:42
  But for the audience you haven't been on in a while, you're
• 1:01:46
  mentioning the Internet, how it's personally kind of, I don't
• 1:01:50
  know, I guess rubbing you wrong. But one of the things that I've
• 1:01:53
  noticed recently, at least, I don't know.
• 1:01:54
  How was this post like the first time you've been on Twitter in
• 1:01:57
  in a little while? Yeah, I mean literally logged in
• 1:02:01
  post logged out. OK, All right.
• 1:02:03
  Well, I, I wanted to ask because I remember you were working on
• 1:02:07
  what's it the Satoshi AI, forget what you named it.
• 1:02:12
  Yeah, Spiro Satoshi exactly. But one of the things that I've
• 1:02:15
  kind of noticed recently on Twitter is not so much the bots,
• 1:02:20
  but now it just seems like everything is AI And it's like
• 1:02:25
  it's everything's AI slop. And so it really leads into the
• 1:02:29
  idea. And I, I don't remember if we
• 1:02:30
  talked about this in the past, but like, are we currently
• 1:02:33
  living through the dead Internet theory?
• 1:02:36
  But it just isn't happening how we thought it was.
• 1:02:38
  It's just like AI, everything's AI now.
• 1:02:40
  And the only way to really, as you said, life Max is doing
• 1:02:46
  exactly that, going back into real life, having real
• 1:02:49
  conversations with people, kind of using Twitter as a tool and
• 1:02:53
  not necessarily as this, you know, the only way that you're
• 1:02:57
  able to communicate with people like most of us did for a long
• 1:03:01
  time. It, it feels like it truly is a
• 1:03:02
  new era in social media. It's I don't know, it really
• 1:03:06
  feels like we're living the dead Internet theory.
• 1:03:08
  What what's your thoughts on this?
• 1:03:10
  I know you're not on the the Internet as much or on Twitter
• 1:03:12
  as much anymore. So maybe you don't have a full
• 1:03:14
  breakdown of that or a personal experience of it, but.
• 1:03:19
  No. I'm I'm it.
• 1:03:20
  Feels like it's over. Yeah, I'm, I'm seeing it from
• 1:03:24
  sort of like from afar, which is, I get this comment from a
• 1:03:27
  lot of people. They're like, man, I'm fucking
• 1:03:29
  done. Oh, really?
• 1:03:30
  You're off the Internet? Holy shit.
• 1:03:31
  Yeah, it's fucking shit over here.
• 1:03:33
  And, you know, there's people everywhere.
• 1:03:34
  I live certain spots everywhere. And it's like, I'm told
• 1:03:36
  everything is AIAI, right? I think it's kind of ironic.
• 1:03:41
  So I don't think anyone really anticipated the sort of the
• 1:03:48
  ramifications of the rise of language models, right?
• 1:03:52
  Because like, the Internet is a communication medium where
• 1:03:54
  you're basically typing stuff, right?
• 1:03:56
  And if you can create these, you know, these technologies
• 1:04:01
  effectively that can write for you or that can, you know,
• 1:04:06
  emulate human speech, you, you kind of turn the Internet into a
• 1:04:13
  domain for them to operate. Now, when you also layer in the
• 1:04:17
  idea that they can understand context and they can communicate
• 1:04:20
  back and forth, you end up getting a kind of like a speed
• 1:04:24
  and digestion problem, right? The Internet is becoming too
• 1:04:27
  fast for human beings. You and I can't process the
• 1:04:34
  amount of stuff that is on the Internet, right?
• 1:04:37
  And this, this is I think we spoke about this last time.
• 1:04:39
  It's one of the reasons why I got off was the pace of hysteria
• 1:04:45
  had increased to such a degree that you know, everything
• 1:04:50
  mattered. So nothing mattered, right?
• 1:04:52
  And, and that was like the last straw for me, you know, around
• 1:04:54
  the whole arena getting stabbed and all this kind of thing,
• 1:04:57
  right. So, you know, I kind of came to
• 1:05:01
  this conclusion, which is that the only way to play this game
• 1:05:03
  is to either go even more extreme to get attention or to
• 1:05:08
  not play, right? And I chose the, the, the not
• 1:05:10
  play option for me in particular, you know, for other
• 1:05:13
  people, you know, the answer might be different.
• 1:05:15
  So when you've got that situation, what ends up
• 1:05:18
  happening is that, you know, the, the trend kind of becomes
• 1:05:24
  more and more towards in order for you opting to digest the
• 1:05:30
  Internet, you're probably going to need some sort of AI
• 1:05:32
  assistant to kind of digest and summarize and figure it out.
• 1:05:36
  And you know, kind of give you an end result that you can more
• 1:05:41
  easily understand because it's impossible for you to take in
• 1:05:45
  everything right? And you kind of see where that
• 1:05:48
  leads. If you do that, then other
• 1:05:50
  people do that and everything basically the Internet becomes
• 1:05:53
  the place for AIS to communicate and lots to communicate, right?
• 1:05:57
  And social media kind of becomes a a broadcast medium.
• 1:06:03
  It doesn't become a connection medium anymore, right?
• 1:06:05
  And that was already happening, right?
• 1:06:06
  So social media, like again, you think about it, social
• 1:06:09
  networking was a place to connect.
• 1:06:11
  Social media was a place to consume, right?
• 1:06:14
  So now The funny thing is social media is now like being
• 1:06:17
  accelerated to the, you know, by AI to the point that, you know,
• 1:06:22
  people are just sort of checking out because they're like, OK, I,
• 1:06:24
  I, I can't consume from a fire hose.
• 1:06:28
  So I need something to consume for me and then kind of drip
• 1:06:31
  feed me on the other end. So you, you get this weird
• 1:06:34
  situation where if you know, everything on the Internet
• 1:06:37
  basically becomes the, the domain of AI.
• 1:06:41
  So where does that leave humans? You know, what do we do?
• 1:06:45
  Or at least the humans that don't want to spend their life
• 1:06:48
  scrolling and just consuming. And to me, you know, the only
• 1:06:52
  real answer is, you know, offline or some sort of hybrid
• 1:06:57
  version where, you know, they have their assistant condensed
• 1:07:03
  things or summarize things and give you something, etcetera.
• 1:07:05
  Or maybe there's like, you know, really tighter groups online
• 1:07:10
  where people still do communicate, where, you know,
• 1:07:15
  there's like some sort of web of trust or verification that, you
• 1:07:17
  know, I know you, you know me, you know, Nico, etcetera.
• 1:07:20
  And you know, there's like a more like gated online
• 1:07:24
  experiences as opposed to these open public squares where anyone
• 1:07:28
  or anything can join. So it's a it's, it's a very
• 1:07:30
  interesting thing. So, so I don't know if it's, as
• 1:07:33
  you said, it's not the dead Internet theory as we imagined.
• 1:07:37
  It's in fact, it's a very live Internet, but it's what I would
• 1:07:41
  call it is like the soulless Internet because you know, you,
• 1:07:44
  you need souls for the soul for the Internet to have a soul,
• 1:07:47
  right? And when the souls leave and you
• 1:07:50
  have a bunch of AIS there, the Internet may be alive, but it
• 1:07:55
  doesn't feel that way. It feels fake.
• 1:07:57
  Basically, it's, it's basically we're in the I'm going to tag
• 1:08:01
  this. We're in the Beyond Meat era of
• 1:08:03
  the Internet. Yeah, that feels, that feels
• 1:08:07
  right. All right, wait, before I hit
• 1:08:12
  the I'm going to hit the an ad break and we'll continue the
• 1:08:14
  combo. So that's key.
• 1:08:15
  But since we're talking about AI and you were in my opinion,
• 1:08:20
  pretty early on the AI wave trying to build Spiro Satoshi,
• 1:08:24
  we are seeing like an AII don't know if we could say necessarily
• 1:08:28
  it's a bubble, a hype bubble right now, But it's hard to
• 1:08:32
  really grasp where I where AI is right now because of the stock
• 1:08:36
  valuations. You know, some people are like,
• 1:08:38
  we're already at AGII kind of look at AI usually like a
• 1:08:42
  glorified search function. Like that's kind of how I view
• 1:08:45
  it. I'm like, it's not that crazy.
• 1:08:47
  I have friends like, dude, it's going to take over everything.
• 1:08:50
  You know, nothing's ever going to be the same.
• 1:08:52
  So what is your view currently? Have you been following along on
• 1:08:55
  the AI as you've been in the real world?
• 1:08:57
  Like what what's your view of where we currently are with AI?
• 1:09:01
  You know, how fast is this coming?
• 1:09:03
  You know, what should people be watching in, in terms of just AI
• 1:09:06
  and and what it means for their lives?
• 1:09:10
  Yeah, I, I, I've missed a lot. Honestly, I didn't even know
• 1:09:13
  about the open claw stuff until about like a month or so in and
• 1:09:17
  then, you know, I got a summary of it.
• 1:09:22
  To be quite honest, I personally use chat TPT for research and
• 1:09:27
  for just basically answering stupid shit like, hey, I, you
• 1:09:33
  know, we're moving house at the moment and we need to get a
• 1:09:36
  fridge. So instead of me sitting there
• 1:09:38
  scouring the Internet, I just told Chad GBT to find me some
• 1:09:41
  options, give it the parameters and it does that, right?
• 1:09:44
  Or if I need to travel somewhere that I haven't been, hey, with
• 1:09:47
  the best spots, etcetera. Right?
• 1:09:48
  So like I use it kind of as a, as a dumb slave and it's good
• 1:09:52
  for that. So if I, you know, an example
• 1:09:54
  with the open claw thing, I was like, OK, I missed those this
• 1:09:57
  whole open claw thing. Please explain it to me.
• 1:09:59
  And then I got it to explain it to me from different angles and
• 1:10:01
  I kind of got my head around what this stuff is.
• 1:10:04
  Does this mean a GII doubt it. Does it mean, you know, the, the
• 1:10:08
  world's going to be taking over, yada, yada, yada.
• 1:10:12
  I I don't think so. I, I just think what happens is
• 1:10:16
  what we just said earlier is the cyberspace with the Internet
• 1:10:19
  where we traditionally, oh, sorry, where we've been
• 1:10:22
  communicating for the last 20 years, I think become saturated
• 1:10:25
  to such a degree that it's very, very hard to communicate outside
• 1:10:28
  of gated spaces. So what'll happen is social
• 1:10:33
  media, which is really what the internet's become now.
• 1:10:35
  Like, you know, how many sites do people visit on the Internet
• 1:10:38
  now? Chat APT Facebook, Instagram,
• 1:10:41
  TikTok, YouTube. Twitter.
• 1:10:44
  Twitter, that's it. So the Internet basically 6
• 1:10:47
  websites now and Amazon 7. Yeah, and Amazon, exactly.
• 1:10:51
  Yeah, so, so that's it, right. So what does that mean?
• 1:10:58
  I, I guess you know, it just means it's like, you know, all
• 1:11:01
  of that stuff just becomes hyper efficient and, you know, AI does
• 1:11:06
  it's thing. I don't know, I, I don't have a
• 1:11:12
  good answer. So, so I don't know what it
• 1:11:13
  means. And quite honestly, I I don't
• 1:11:16
  fucking care. The classic Spetsky line I just
• 1:11:20
  don't care that's that's always a good good sound bite from
• 1:11:25
  spetsky all right let me play one quick commercial break and
• 1:11:27
  and I I you know you've been around a long time as an
• 1:11:30
  objective observer of where we are now because I think you're
• 1:11:33
  offline I want to just personally ask you some
• 1:11:35
  questions of where you think Bitcoin is and maybe society is
• 1:11:39
  at large so let me play this last short commercial break and
• 1:11:42
  then we'll continue the conversation let's.
• 1:11:44
  Go. I want to give a shout out to
• 1:11:46
  our partner Hive Digital Technologies.
• 1:11:48
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• 1:11:53
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• 1:11:57
  performance compute, where their AI cloud is now ranked number
• 1:12:01
  one in the world for network performance.
• 1:12:04
  At Hive, you've got dual engines, Bitcoin and AI humming,
• 1:12:09
  roaring, accelerating and unison.
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  Hive Digital Tech or at Hive digitaltech.com.
• 1:12:27
  All right bro. Oh, dude, my, the software is
• 1:12:31
  acting all crazy today. Anyways, I think I want to
• 1:12:37
  start, let's start with Bitcoin 'cause I know our audience is
• 1:12:40
  always like when we get into the different conversations outside
• 1:12:42
  of Bitcoin, they're like, I thought this is a Bitcoin show.
• 1:12:44
  Why are you guys talking about AI and every other thing?
• 1:12:47
  It's 'cause there, you know, there's more things to talk
• 1:12:49
  about than Bitcoin, but let's start with Bitcoin.
• 1:12:51
  I know you've been offline. I'm sure you're watching some of
• 1:12:55
  the things happening in Bitcoin. You know, Wall Street's coming
• 1:12:58
  into Bitcoin. They're sailors scooping up all
• 1:13:00
  the Bitcoin we have Washington, DC, the Trump's embracing
• 1:13:04
  Bitcoin as a hardcore bitcoiner. That's probably one of the most
• 1:13:08
  hardcore Bitcoiners I know. What is your general take right
• 1:13:12
  now of where Bitcoin currently is in, in the, you know, overall
• 1:13:17
  zeitgeist of the world and, and maybe what your personal
• 1:13:19
  feelings are about where where Bitcoin is headed and what
• 1:13:22
  direction it's headed towards? Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  Man, you know the adoption curve.
• 1:13:29
  Yeah. The what's the first one called?
• 1:13:33
  They're not early adopters. They're like.
• 1:13:34
  Like early innovators? Yeah, innovators or whatever.
• 1:13:37
  Innovators. I think it's early innovators.
• 1:13:39
  Yeah. So I, I think we finally sort of
• 1:13:45
  nearing the end of the early adopter phase, perhaps somewhere
• 1:13:48
  around there. And, and not to blow smoke up
• 1:13:53
  mass, but I kind of consider myself a little bit more on the
• 1:13:56
  innovator side, right. So what ends up happening if you
• 1:13:59
  look at this kind of bell curve, is that as each new era comes
• 1:14:05
  into any technology, any movement, any political idea,
• 1:14:09
  whatever, right? The, the, the group beforehand
• 1:14:14
  starts to get interested in something else, right?
• 1:14:17
  Where there's, there's very few people or there's less people,
• 1:14:20
  there's more people like them, right?
• 1:14:22
  So, and, and each group that there's a, there's a bit of
• 1:14:27
  overlap, right? So when you have the, the
• 1:14:30
  visionary stage or the innovator stage, you know, it bleeds into
• 1:14:34
  the early adopter stage for, for quite a while until the, you
• 1:14:38
  know, visionary innovators want to go and do something else.
• 1:14:42
  And then you sort of have just early adopters and then you
• 1:14:46
  know, from early adopters, you start to kind of bleed into
• 1:14:49
  early majority. But I think that's where the
• 1:14:51
  chasm is, right? So it's got a kind of leap to
• 1:14:53
  the early majority. And I don't think the Queen's
• 1:14:55
  made that leap yet. But I think we're certainly
• 1:14:59
  entering the phase of Bitcoin's life cycle where it's in the,
• 1:15:04
  you know, squarely in the early adopter phase where the, where
• 1:15:07
  the visionaries are either finding other stuff to be
• 1:15:11
  interested in or they're at each other's throats arguing about
• 1:15:15
  whatever the fuck. You know, the, you know, the
• 1:15:17
  philosophy of Bitcoin is supposed to be right for me.
• 1:15:21
  I guess I, you know, I will always have a special place for
• 1:15:29
  Bitcoin. You know, it's, it's the best
• 1:15:33
  money or that sort of thing, you know, like a kind of already
• 1:15:37
  hashed all of this thing out. But something I guess has
• 1:15:41
  changed to me in the in the last 6 to 12 months in the sense
• 1:15:45
  that, you know, I thought early on, and if you look at my early
• 1:15:50
  writing, I thought I'd never get bored of Bitcoin or that I'd
• 1:15:54
  never reached the bottom of the rabbit hole, right?
• 1:15:56
  Like the there was that whole meme, right?
• 1:15:58
  Like the Bitcoin rabbit hole is never ending.
• 1:16:01
  But I genuinely think I did, like I don't, I don't find
• 1:16:06
  myself interested. Like I don't think I could ever
• 1:16:10
  listen to another Bitcoin podcast again or or read another
• 1:16:13
  Bitcoin honestly. Like tell me what the fuck am I
• 1:16:17
  going to learn at this point? Bro, I mean, first of all, how
• 1:16:22
  you doing sexy? Wait, wait, did you say sexy?
• 1:16:25
  Dude, pause. I haven't seen this man in a
• 1:16:28
  while. Bro, this is this is how we
• 1:16:30
  communicate. Pause.
• 1:16:34
  But I think you, I think after, you know, Stetsky, you've been
• 1:16:39
  at this for a while. For me, it's been a decade, bro.
• 1:16:42
  I think you get to a point where you've heard every single
• 1:16:45
  argument. You've heard every single case.
• 1:16:48
  Obviously, if you're still in it in the early years, that's
• 1:16:51
  really where you you hyper obsessed with Bitcoin content
• 1:16:55
  and you try to watch as much as you can.
• 1:16:58
  I remember in the early days for me, I was watching every single
• 1:17:01
  Andreas Antonopoulos lecture like over and over and over and
• 1:17:05
  over again. And I was like, this is the
• 1:17:06
  craziest stuff ever. But then you get to a point
• 1:17:09
  where again, you've heard every single argument there is to to
• 1:17:13
  be made. And what we were talking about
• 1:17:15
  in the beginning part of the show, Svetsky, I was like, look
• 1:17:18
  like in terms of where Bitcoin is in its life cycle, it's
• 1:17:24
  interesting because sailor is he's essentially doing what the
• 1:17:32
  the rest of us have done, which is you just go all in, you end
• 1:17:37
  up going all in. You know, you, you, you make
• 1:17:40
  that bet in your life, right? You, you know, you, you go
• 1:17:44
  through some pain in, in the, in the early years and then you
• 1:17:47
  become vindicated. And I think Sailor's doing that
• 1:17:50
  and he's taking traditional finance with him.
• 1:17:54
  And then by doing so, by being vindicated kind of in the
• 1:17:57
  traditional financial world, I think that's just going to
• 1:18:00
  create a, a giant stamp of approval.
• 1:18:03
  And it's just going to, you know, force other companies just
• 1:18:05
  to kind of follow in this footsteps to, to remain
• 1:18:08
  competitive. That's where I I see Bitcoin as
• 1:18:11
  of late, but obviously, you know, the kind of cypherpunk
• 1:18:16
  type of culture that we had in the very early days.
• 1:18:20
  I do agree with you in the sense that a lot of that has gone.
• 1:18:25
  It's it's dissipated in a way, right?
• 1:18:27
  Bitcoin isn't this, you know, this crazy.
• 1:18:32
  It still is fundamentally at its core, but it's not perceived as
• 1:18:36
  such by the market, right. You know, I think we've reached
• 1:18:41
  a point where the early adopter, the, the early majority
• 1:18:45
  specifically don't really care about, you know, the things that
• 1:18:50
  we've talked about your, your writings, for example, like the,
• 1:18:53
  the philosophical component of Bitcoin, They're more so like,
• 1:18:58
  OK, you know, how do I integrate this into my life with the least
• 1:19:03
  amount of friction so I can benefit from it?
• 1:19:07
  Right. And I remember I was talking to
• 1:19:09
  someone about Bitcoin, I think it was a couple years ago.
• 1:19:12
  And I, I start hitting him with like, you know, Bitcoin does
• 1:19:15
  this, Bitcoin does that. And I never forget how the way
• 1:19:18
  he phrased it to me. He was like, Nico, I understand
• 1:19:21
  the revolutionary aspect, but let's talk about it from an
• 1:19:24
  investing perspective. I think that's where we are
• 1:19:27
  right now in, in, in bitcoins life cycle.
• 1:19:30
  We're at a point where the the early majority are just like,
• 1:19:34
  OK, listen, I, I understand this is this is good money.
• 1:19:38
  How do I adopt it with the least amount of friction, with the
• 1:19:41
  least amount of headache? You know, I might not be as
• 1:19:44
  hardcore as you. I do want to benefit from it.
• 1:19:47
  And I think Wall Street falls into that camp as well.
• 1:19:51
  Yeah, I think, I mean, you're 100% correct.
• 1:19:53
  So I guess you have a situation here which is the stuff that
• 1:19:59
  people like. You or me etcetera, sort of our
• 1:20:02
  our vision, the visionaries we're interested in we kind of
• 1:20:05
  have heard it all before and then the new stuff that's coming
• 1:20:09
  out is not so interesting to us, right.
• 1:20:11
  So we kind of like mentally checked out and you know, we're
• 1:20:14
  probably in different situations because, you know, you have a
• 1:20:17
  business and a show to run, whereas me, you know, I don't
• 1:20:19
  have that burden. So I can kind of let go of that,
• 1:20:22
  right? And then for the new people
• 1:20:24
  coming in, if, you know, they're likely just not fucking
• 1:20:29
  interested in rise of the individual and full of the state
• 1:20:32
  and all the other shit that I used to write, right?
• 1:20:35
  For them. They're interested in Sailor
• 1:20:38
  buying some stuff, saying whatever he says on CNN or the
• 1:20:41
  Trump brothers or whatever the fucking case is.
• 1:20:44
  And, you know, getting an opportunity to come into this
• 1:20:49
  thing which is being validated to some degree because it's been
• 1:20:53
  spoken of by people they trust in the public.
• 1:20:59
  You know, one of the things I do like about, you know, that will
• 1:21:02
  always remain special about Bitcoin to me though, and I'll
• 1:21:06
  just say this here is that Bitcoin can still be whatever it
• 1:21:14
  is that you want it to be, whether you're in the visionary
• 1:21:17
  camp, in the early adopter camp, in the early majority camp,
• 1:21:20
  etcetera, right? So for me, I will probably never
• 1:21:23
  use Bitcoin like someone from the early majority or the early,
• 1:21:28
  sorry, from the early adopter early majority phase, right?
• 1:21:31
  I will use it like the visionaries use that, you know,
• 1:21:34
  like I will do multi sig and PSBTS and all of the more
• 1:21:39
  complicated stuff because I still find that very, very cool.
• 1:21:42
  I still find that very interesting.
• 1:21:45
  You know, my mom, she's not going to do that.
• 1:21:47
  She's going to buy on the exchange.
• 1:21:49
  And then when the time comes, you know, at a particular price,
• 1:21:51
  when she wants to buy a house, she's going to sell it on the
• 1:21:53
  exchange and she's going to buy a house, right?
• 1:21:57
  She doesn't care. But for me, the idea of like
• 1:22:01
  creating this whole schema that, you know, my son and my children
• 1:22:04
  in the future will be able to unlock because they did certain
• 1:22:07
  things like, you know, that to me I still find very, very cool.
• 1:22:12
  And that's, I think what's fundamentally special about
• 1:22:14
  Bitcoin, which is why it'll always be super, super
• 1:22:17
  interesting to me. But beyond that to, to the
• 1:22:23
  earlier point, it's like I'm, I'm no longer interested in
• 1:22:27
  listening to what the current conversation is because the
• 1:22:30
  current conversation is no longer relevant to me.
• 1:22:32
  It is relevant to a new market because this thing is evolving.
• 1:22:35
  And I don't resent Bitcoin for that.
• 1:22:38
  I, you know, a lot of people say, Oh yeah, Bitcoin's dead
• 1:22:39
  because of this. I think those people are morons.
• 1:22:42
  Bitcoin is not dead. Bitcoin is more alive than it's
• 1:22:45
  ever been. It's just going through puberty
• 1:22:48
  basically. It's becoming something else and
• 1:22:52
  but, but it still holds the same essence.
• 1:22:54
  Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. It, it, it really it, it really
• 1:22:58
  is. It's, it's, it, it, it that's
• 1:23:01
  the, the, the way that you describe it.
• 1:23:03
  It's growing up it the core is still the same, but and the core
• 1:23:10
  like the early, the early adopters are still going to be
• 1:23:14
  using it the way they they're going to be running nodes
• 1:23:17
  because again, it's just native to us in that way.
• 1:23:20
  But the vast majority of people, and this is perhaps I think
• 1:23:24
  where a lot of people miss it or or perhaps a lot of early
• 1:23:29
  Bitcoiners, they didn't perceive it as such.
• 1:23:31
  I think a lot of early Bitcoiners Fetsky, like we
• 1:23:34
  projected onto everybody what, what we were, what we were
• 1:23:39
  ourselves without realizing the fact that the majority of
• 1:23:43
  people, they're just not they're they're just not built that way,
• 1:23:49
  right? Like, you know, they're watching
• 1:23:50
  sports ball, they're interested in this, they're interested on
• 1:23:54
  what's on TV. They're not really interested in
• 1:23:56
  the freedom aspect of it. They're not interested in the
• 1:23:59
  sovereignty aspect of it. And I think a lot of the early
• 1:24:02
  Bitcoiners, we underestimated the fact that most people didn't
• 1:24:07
  think or were never going to think the way we thought.
• 1:24:11
  Correct, correct. Yeah, This is this is sort of
• 1:24:13
  the the fallacy of the of the, what do you call it?
• 1:24:17
  The idealist, right. We're all idealists and we
• 1:24:20
  thought we could make it everyone else idealist.
• 1:24:21
  So you can't train someone to be an idealist.
• 1:24:23
  You either are or you aren't, right.
• 1:24:24
  This comes back to conversation we've had how many times about
• 1:24:27
  nature and nurture, right? We thought we could nurture
• 1:24:29
  everyone into understanding Bitcoin, but you can't like the
• 1:24:32
  like Bitcoin attracts a certain type of person.
• 1:24:34
  And this actually comes back to the fucking to the book that I
• 1:24:37
  wrote, right? Bashido Bitcoin.
• 1:24:38
  What was my realization in Bashido?
• 1:24:41
  It was that Bitcoin doesn't change you.
• 1:24:44
  It it it gives the people who already have the ability to
• 1:24:48
  understand it, it gives them a mechanism to reinforce the
• 1:24:52
  better parts of themselves, right?
• 1:24:54
  So if you were already a degen, you most likely got into
• 1:24:58
  Bitcoin, then you got into Ethereum, then you got into
• 1:25:00
  shitcoins, then you got into gambling and then you became
• 1:25:02
  more of a degen, right? So Bitcoin accelerated your
• 1:25:06
  degeneratism, right? But if you had a particular, a
• 1:25:10
  particular nature around, you know, virtues and values and
• 1:25:13
  honesty and integrity and all this sort of stuff, then Bitcoin
• 1:25:16
  amplified that and that's all it did.
• 1:25:18
  That was my big finding. And that was the big fallacy, I
• 1:25:20
  think amongst all Bitcoiners back in the day, which was
• 1:25:23
  Bitcoin fixes you or Bitcoin fixes this, Bitcoin changes you
• 1:25:26
  turned out. No, it doesn't.
• 1:25:28
  Bitcoin just amplifies who you are.
• 1:25:31
  And that was sort of a dirty little secret that that was kind
• 1:25:33
  of the the last big probably input that I had in the Bitcoin
• 1:25:38
  sphere before I became a pariah and everyone started hating me.
• 1:25:41
  It was, you know, because I sort of got out and said that I was
• 1:25:44
  like, you know, Bitcoin doesn't fix anything.
• 1:25:46
  You know, Bitcoin just amplifies who you actually are.
• 1:25:49
  And a bunch of people got Buttho over that.
• 1:25:52
  And it's 100%, it's 100% true. But it's, it's interesting, man.
• 1:25:57
  It's interesting because in a way, it's kind of like, you
• 1:26:01
  know, Svetsky, I don't think we realized how good the good old
• 1:26:04
  days were, right? You know, I don't think we
• 1:26:07
  realized how fun those times. You know, it's like we, we
• 1:26:11
  thought those days were were going to go on forever.
• 1:26:14
  We thought they were going to expand forever.
• 1:26:16
  We thought they were going to go on forever, but in, in reality,
• 1:26:19
  you know, it, it, it, it was just, it was a moment in time
• 1:26:24
  that was never going to it was a moment in time that was never
• 1:26:28
  going to happen again. That's not to say, you know, for
• 1:26:31
  anyone who's listening, that's not to say, you know, Bitcoin
• 1:26:34
  still has an incredible future ahead of it.
• 1:26:37
  And you know, it's going to fundamentally change the world
• 1:26:40
  100%, especially the people that are listening to the show.
• 1:26:44
  You guys are listening to the show and you guys do appreciate
• 1:26:46
  self custody. You guys do appreciate
• 1:26:48
  sovereignty 100%. But you know, what Stetsky and I
• 1:26:52
  are are talking about is like the reality is that most people,
• 1:26:56
  I would say the reality is that they just don't, they just don't
• 1:27:00
  care about that. They they care about convenience
• 1:27:04
  over everything. I think that's the lesson that I
• 1:27:07
  think we've learned over the last five years or so.
• 1:27:10
  So anyways. Man, dude, we're all such
• 1:27:13
  boomers. Yeah, I guess.
• 1:27:14
  We're. The good old days we're.
• 1:27:18
  Seriously. We're Bitcoin boomers.
• 1:27:19
  We're Bitcoin boomers. Anyways, Stetsky's great to see
• 1:27:24
  you guys. Wait, wait.
• 1:27:25
  This. Stetsky, you want to plug
• 1:27:26
  anything else before we wrap up today's show?
• 1:27:28
  You know any of your other projects?
• 1:27:30
  I know you're always working on stuff.
• 1:27:31
  If you want the audience to check it out, let's do it right
• 1:27:33
  now. Not.
• 1:27:34
  Necessarily, I mean, if, if, if anyone here is a part of a
• 1:27:37
  Bitcoin meet up or a part of a Bitcoin community or running
• 1:27:39
  one, like get off Luma, get off meet up.
• 1:27:42
  That's all I'm going to say. Just go, go and try the damn app
• 1:27:45
  and see how you like it. I promise you'll, you'll be
• 1:27:47
  blown away. It's really good and it's proper
• 1:27:50
  events app. It's it's we're different for
• 1:27:52
  those thinking in their mind now it's like, oh, what about Orange
• 1:27:54
  or club orange? We had different club Orange is
• 1:27:56
  a club with a light events feature.
• 1:27:59
  We're a events platform. It's it's kind of the other way
• 1:28:03
  around. So we're actually going to do
• 1:28:05
  some stuff with club orange where they can import our events
• 1:28:09
  into their into their application.
• 1:28:11
  So anyway, go have a try of that.
• 1:28:14
  The last thing I will say is I've, I've been toying with the
• 1:28:18
  idea of writing another Bitcoin essay, maybe my first one in a
• 1:28:23
  couple of years, which is a evolution on one that I wrote in
• 1:28:31
  2023, I think called three generation theory.
• 1:28:35
  And it's just sort of a an idea I've been toying with, which is
• 1:28:40
  related to our conversation here is as Bitcoin evolves, it goes
• 1:28:44
  through different generation based evolutions.
• 1:28:49
  And I'm not talking 4th turning crap here.
• 1:28:52
  I'm talking more like generation one of Bitcoin was kind of the
• 1:28:58
  infection stage where, you know, people like us who were around
• 1:29:03
  before Bitcoin and after Bitcoin.
• 1:29:07
  We kind of have one foot in Bitcoin, 1 foot out.
• 1:29:11
  And by definition, we perceive Bitcoin in relation to what
• 1:29:14
  existed before. And at the same time what that
• 1:29:17
  does is it creates the conditions for the kind of
• 1:29:20
  businesses and operations that are about the Nexus between
• 1:29:24
  Bitcoin and what came before. So therefore you see miners,
• 1:29:27
  wallets, exchanges, treasury companies, etcetera.
• 1:29:30
  But Generation 2 will be led by the people who were born after
• 1:29:38
  Bitcoin was launched. So call it 2010 to 2030, right?
• 1:29:41
  So we're kind of getting close now to Generation 2 where, you
• 1:29:45
  know, a couple years away and you know, those are going to be
• 1:29:48
  the kids who they're going to come of age, they'll be 2021
• 1:29:51
  years old, etcetera. And they're going to perceive
• 1:29:53
  Bitcoin very differently to us because they grew up with it and
• 1:29:56
  they're going to look at it as a part of the stack.
• 1:30:00
  You know, it's gone beyond infection.
• 1:30:01
  It's symbiotic with the environment, with the energy
• 1:30:04
  infrastructure, with the technology infrastructure, with
• 1:30:06
  the monetary infrastructure, with the financial
• 1:30:08
  infrastructure, all that sort of stuff.
• 1:30:10
  And it is used and perceived very differently than what our
• 1:30:12
  generation use it for, you know, And they'll carry it for the
• 1:30:16
  next 20 years. And you'll see the rise of
• 1:30:17
  different products and services that just have money, not
• 1:30:20
  payments, but money baked into the product, you know, And then
• 1:30:24
  that'll sort of run 20 years. And then their children will
• 1:30:26
  grow up and that'll be the third generation.
• 1:30:28
  And you'll sort of see the, the rise of the, sort of the, the,
• 1:30:33
  the mass adoptional late adopter stage, right.
• 1:30:37
  And, and I think the sort of this first generation was
• 1:30:41
  visionaries and early adopters. So we'd probably have another
• 1:30:44
  couple years of early adopters and then we're going to cross
• 1:30:47
  the chasm. And I think 2030 onwards is the
• 1:30:50
  early majority stage to run for 20 years.
• 1:30:53
  And then the final, the, the next 20 years will be the late
• 1:30:56
  majority. That's when we reach, quote UN
• 1:30:58
  quote, mass adoption where, you know, Bitcoin becomes part of
• 1:31:02
  the societal infrastructure. So anyway, I think I might
• 1:31:04
  elaborate on this. So if anyone wants to read any
• 1:31:07
  of that, that'll be on my sub stack.
• 1:31:11
  Yeah, next couple months. I always loved your writing,
• 1:31:14
  Swetzky and. You know I'm I'm.
• 1:31:16
  Looking forward to. You know to to reading that when
• 1:31:20
  that comes out love to have you back on the show to talk about
• 1:31:22
  it anyways, guys go check out SAT Lanis dot IO.
• 1:31:28
  It's it's really, really cool again.
• 1:31:29
  It's it's built bit for bitcoiners, people that think
• 1:31:32
  like bitcoiners. Also Schetzky's a dear friend.
• 1:31:34
  We've known each other for years now at this point.
• 1:31:38
  So yeah, Swetzky's still around guys.
• 1:31:41
  He's just you just checked out a little bit.
• 1:31:43
  Just checked out a little bit. I think it's the natural course.
• 1:31:46
  It's the natural evolution, dude.
• 1:31:48
  We'd be checked out if we didn't have this show.
• 1:31:50
  Yeah, probably we'd be, you see. That sunset behind us.
• 1:31:55
  Yeah, it's, you know, we're kind of, you know.
• 1:31:57
  Anyways, anyways, guys, if you guys enjoyed the show, oh wait
• 1:32:01
  no, I have to give a shout out to I have to give a shout out to
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  our sponsor. I forgot about that.
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• 1:32:30
  tuning in. Smash the like button, consider
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• 1:32:35
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• 1:32:38
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