Latest / Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky / Breaking Barriers On and Off The Court: Faith, Competition, and Community

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Breaking Barriers On and Off The Court: Faith, Competition, and Community · Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky

0:00
Okay.
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You both run elite programs, but in different environments.
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We wanted to bring you two together to find common ground between the secular and Jewish basketball worlds.
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Let's see how we can learn from each other's playbook and level up.
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I have Coach Carpenter here and Coach Rado.
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Can we call you A.B.
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and Kevin here?
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Yep.
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Okay.
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Thank you for having me.
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That's fine.
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Okay.
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You both play, did you both play basketball as kids?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So I also played basketball.
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It was really my passion.
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School was not really my thing necessarily.
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But they always felt to me, my school really appreciated sports.
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and I find that in a lot of places that is not necessarily the case within our Jewish world
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because we sort of have like a cap on what we're capable of doing.
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Do you guys feel like that's real in our world or I know you played college ball.
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Was that hard considering the restrictions?
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I think it was harder then than it is now
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because I think now with Yeshiva University being what it is
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and there's so much more talent in the Jewish community
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that I think you see other players that have done it
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and played at that level
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that you think you could play at that level too
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I think that playing for an all-Jewish school
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maybe didn't seem like a cool thing to do before
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but now that Yeshiva University wins conference championships
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and is in a tournament just like anybody else
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that if you're good enough to play college basketball,
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why wouldn't you go there?
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So I think that now it's a lot.
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I don't think people see it as a cap as much as they used to.
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Do you feel like it's a challenge to coach people who have restrictions?
1:57
No, not at all.
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I think it all goes down to hoops is a great spot that breaks so many barriers,
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socioeconomic barriers, racial barriers, religious barriers,
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and it's a spot where kids can come and get on the court
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and share a common goal and common interest
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for something that they love, for the game they love.
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And when you go back to the start from the beginning
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in terms of why did we get into youth sports,
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and I think when you think about why you put your kid into youth sports,
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it's really not centered around getting to the end product
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of playing college or pro.
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It's for all the intangibles in between.
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So what are some of the intangibles that you feel are most important?
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Well, I think to start out, it's about building resistance within your child.
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It's about giving them the ability for goal setting, both short-term and long-term.
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I think when you think about the concept of team, right?
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You get outside the world of sports and you go into the business world.
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It's all about team building and relationships.
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And basketball, we were talking about it prior to hopping on here, that basketball is a very small world.
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and the relationships you build
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and the people that I've met along the game of basketball
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are still lifelong friends of mine
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and we do business together
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or just have really close relationships.
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You have close relationships with the people
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that you've played basketball with over the years?
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Yeah, for sure.
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I've had players that have played with me
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that have coached under me in my program.
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Also, now all the AU connections that I had when I was a player,
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they've helped me now with my all Jewish teams
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to play in tournaments only on Sundays
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and things like that where if I just called a random program
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maybe they wouldn't be so quick to help me
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so I remember going to these camps and going to these
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programs and now they remember me coming back
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now as a coach so all these relationships
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that I had as a player
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now help me now as a coach
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So you run an AAU program
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developmental program
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my son happens to play in both of your
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programs
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and while I
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I love AAU basketball because I feel like it opens the door for a lot of our kids to experience real challenge, real competition, whereas sometimes a rec center league might not be as tough and we want to go to the next level.
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Do you think that AAU is what it used to be because you played as a kid and you run a program?
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Or do you think that now the focus is something completely different?
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I think the AAU term is used very widely.
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And I think that when we were growing up, there were less options.
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And now today, the menu of options is much larger than ever before.
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more programs, more teams, different levels of play, ABC levels.
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I know personally amongst many
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roundtable internal discussions with AAU, I know they're doing a lot to try to provide more options
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for people with religious restrictions on different events that are being run.
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That's
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actually something that's taking place and it should be coming out relatively soon.
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With regards to just overall though, thinking about AAU, AAU is a vehicle and how different
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programs use that vehicle can vary and they can either use it properly or abuse it, right?
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So when
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you're seeking programs for who you want your child to play for, you want to pick a program
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that's focused in on development of your child, especially depending upon the age.
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And then also
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it gives options for exposure, right, across the way.
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So those two things are great variables,
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but how you use the vehicle of AAU is important.
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And, you know, you want to, you know, start with
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great coaches and great programs.
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You think that all coaches are created equal?
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No, I don't think all programs are equal.
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I don't think all programs are equal.
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And I think that
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it's parents need, you know, do your due diligence with who you're putting your
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kid with and in terms of what your values are and what your goals are for your son or daughter.
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And you want to put them with something that aligns with your vision.
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what's the ideal vision?
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I mean, we teach about like midos,
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which is like good qualities and being respectful
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and doing all of these things.
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But you see things on the court.
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Like you see kids, you know, fighting with refs
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or figuring out how to deal with each other as like a team.
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How do you handle that when like there's this intense competition?
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Well, hopefully it doesn't get to that point
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because hopefully you deal with that in practice.
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There we go.
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Important.
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And look, obviously you can't control.
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You could be the best coach in the world
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and you could have the best kids in the world,
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but something could always happen.
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You try in practice to emulate what games are going to be like
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or even make it even tougher so that the game,
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they don't come through scenarios that they haven't seen before.
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But it's not always possible.
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Sometimes stuff happens and then you have to be able to deal with it.
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So every scenario is different.
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but it's how you
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every kid's different too
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sometimes you want to talk to a kid out loud
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but if you do that you may embarrass them in front of everybody
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sometimes you want to call the kid over and you want to talk to him
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separately
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sometimes it depends on what he does
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sometimes immediately you got to take him out of the game
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and it doesn't matter what point of the game it is
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because it's bigger if you teach
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the kid it's just about winning a 6th grade game
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then
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what are you actually teaching them
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but if you teach them
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I care about winning, but I care more about you doing the right thing and acting the right way,
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then you show them that winning is not the most important thing.
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And if you want it to be the most important thing, then you have to do the right thing all the time,
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and then you can focus on winning.
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Yeah, I agree with Coach 100%.
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I think it's about the standard that you set inside the culture of your program and your teams.
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And with that, you either coach it or you allow it, right, in terms of behavior.
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and you got you want I always talk to our players about being an energy giver energy taker right and
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having kids that are on your team that are really rooting for others and and trying to help the
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overall you know team morale is super important and there's going to be situations that come up
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in terms of frustration and emotions and I think that when you talk to your players there's allowing
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that conversation to just evolve over time especially depending if you have an eight-year-old
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a 10-year-old or 12-year-old.
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And it's different in terms of how you communicate to them.
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So if your standard is, hey, look, we're not going to tolerate you
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talking back to a coach, disrespecting a teammate, yelling at a referee,
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I think that's stuff that happens inside the foxhole,
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inside practices, inside of timeouts.
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And then you've got to hold the players accountable,
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and I think that's really important.
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And having that dialogue with parents and players is super valuable
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over the course of a season.
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Do you find that your coaching sort of shifts for different ages?
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Because obviously you're not going to talk to an 8-year-old the same way you're going to talk to a 16-year-old.
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Do you find that you need to adjust your coaching for them?
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Sure.
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I think the message is the same no matter what age.
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Even if you're an adult, nobody should be talking back to referees.
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This is not the way to be.
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but yes of course the way you communicate with kids
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is going to change depending on the age
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how many
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depends
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what type of mistakes they're making
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depends
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if they miss a layup
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like the kid didn't try to miss a layup
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but if he's not talking on defense
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that's something that
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intangibles or things that
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no matter how good you are you should be doing
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are a little bit different
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But also the level of player, like a 16-year-old knows a lot more,
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so he's responsible for a lot more than an 8-year-old is
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because you didn't teach them as much yet.
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So for sure it's different.
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It also kind of goes to the idea where we're navigating this whole concept
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of a kid at 16 pretends they don't care,
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where as an 8-year-old they care so much.
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They're in tears on the court when something happens.
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They can't regulate their emotions appropriately.
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How do you handle those moments where a kid's like,
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I don't care if I win or lose, or they care too much
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and they're hysterical after a game when they lose?
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I think an eight-year-old crying on the court often gets misinterpreted.
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And I think it's because they care.
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And then it's about having conversations with how to handle frustration.
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As coaches, we want to put our players in environments that are tough
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and test the boundary sometimes.
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And it's our job as coaches to also lead them
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and be leaders on and off the floor as role models
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in terms of, okay, something tough,
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something didn't go your way, how are you going to handle that?
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And creating environments in practice,
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having conversations with them, how to handle your emotions.
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You're going down the floor, you steal the ball, you go down,
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you go for a layup, you get knocked to the ground,
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you don't get the foul, a player gets up
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and now has maybe a level of frustration.
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You want to teach them, hey, look, turn, run back,
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and make a play, right?
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And there's so many different things that go on.
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With the 16-year-old, it's also different
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because at that stage, you're talking about
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how are you going to work inside a team?
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And are you going to pick the teammate up
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that's around you that's down?
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Sometimes as an eight-year-old,
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you're focused on the individual.
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But then as a 16-year-old,
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you're not only focused on the individual,
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you're talking about,
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hey, you see a teammate struggling.
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What are you going to do to impact that?
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So when you're talking about an eight-year-old, an eight-year-old,
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you're really focused in on the individual in terms of how they're going to handle
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and adapt to things that are frustrating them.
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And then when you're 16, you're not only talking
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about it from that angle you're also talking about how can they impact the teammate and pick
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a teammate up and whether that's you know um motivating them in different ways verbally and
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non-verbally i like that i just want to add something i also think younger younger kids
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like let's talk about eight and sixteen eight year olds the only thing they care about is basketball
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sixteen year olds they care about basketball but they care about trying to figure out where
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they're going to school school's a lot more important to them or sometimes not but that or
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they're dealing with more things.
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Let's be honest, they're thinking about girls,
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they're thinking about boys, let's be real.
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On the court, they want
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that image of, I'm cool.
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But besides for that,
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it's also like the
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eight-year-old, the only thing they care about
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is basketball, so if they lose,
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now they're trying to work on it and become better for the next one,
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but now the 16-year-old's like, alright, but now I also
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have to deal with these other things that are going on.
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I feel like it's not
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just, you also have to understand
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the kid and what they're going through,
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to try to get, if you want them to play
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the way you want them to play,
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it's also understanding the kid
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and what they're going through and what's going on.
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That's why I think it's also so important
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to develop leadership.
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Like a lot of, like, yeah, when I coach,
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the kids look at me and they listen, that's great.
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But what I think really defines a great coach
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is like when you look at the team playing,
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are they leading each other?
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Because if they're just relying on the coach
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and they're not, because no matter what I tell them,
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they can look at me and say, yeah,
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but you're not doing it, you're telling me to do it.
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but a 12 year old talking to another 12 year old and holding him accountable they're both in class
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together they both know what's what struggles they're going through the both talk about girls
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whatever they know what's going on they know they have a test tomorrow they know they stayed up late
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last night studying what i'm going through and what the 12 year old is going through is not the
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same thing so if they could find like between each other how to pick each other up it's really
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important i think sometimes maybe coaches think that you know they're the only person that should
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be talking sometimes i ask the kid like what play do you want to run because then they'll feel
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ownership on stuff.
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So I think that's really important too.
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I think coach is 100% accurate.
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Player-led teams are the most successful teams,
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both short-term and long-term.
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And when you have players leading
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and your point guard is an extension
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of your coaching staff,
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it just goes around the entire culture
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of what you want in a program
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and how you can measure success.
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I don't think success is always measured
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by wins and losses.
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Success is also measured by, you know,
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how you teach players to act not on the court,
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but also take those skills off the court.
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Is the definition of success more focused on like how many points we win
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or you think it's more of like the internal kid
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and understanding their self-esteem
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and understanding what sports gives to the kid?
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I mean the whole reason why you're the reason why the kids are playing or doing this is yeah so is
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you can't you can't enter something and only think that you're entering something because
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because of the end goal because that means if you don't hit the end goal what's the end goal for
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every kid to make the NBA so that means every single kid failed at their goal that doesn't
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no that doesn't make any sense so you set the goal where you want to set it and then because
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you set the goal so high you go as far as you can and you try to get as far as you can and wherever
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you get to, it's because you set the goal so high.
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So the goal is not about winning.
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It is when you're
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playing, but it's not about, you know, how many points and all those things.
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It's about what you
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learn from this experience.
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I would not be in the place I am now.
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And I still have a lot of room to
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grow, but I would not be where I am now.
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If I didn't say when I was a little kid, I want to be
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in the NBA and then I want to play division one.
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Cause if I wouldn't have said that there's no way
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I would have even played division three.
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The only reason I played division three is because my goal
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was to play division one.
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I trained so hard for that.
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If I would have trained to play division
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three, maybe I wouldn't have even got there.
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So I set the goal so high.
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And because I set it so
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high, I was able to get to where I got to.
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And it's not, I'm not a failure because I'm a basketball
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coach now and not in the NBA right now.
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But if you would say that whatever my goal is, and if I
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don't hit it, that's failure.
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No, it doesn't make sense.
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It's you set goals and you try to reach
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them.
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You do whatever you can, wherever you get to, it's because of your work ethic.
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And so you
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can't just, it's not about winning points and everything.
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It's about what you learn from it.
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So what I learned from it now I could take and use that work ethic into what I'm really good at.
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And now I can be in the NBA of coaching because of my work ethic and using it when I'm naturally or whatever good at.
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Because I don't think I was so naturally gifted at basketball, but I took so much work ethic to become better at it.
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So now if you're whatever the kid is, so if a kid's not so good at basketball, but they take the work ethic, they learn.
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and the kid's really good at science,
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he takes the basketball work ethic
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to something he's really good at.
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He's going to be the best science person ever.
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But if he didn't learn the work ethic from something else,
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he wouldn't be able to apply it.
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So it's really learning from basketball
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and using it to everything else that you do.
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Yeah, to kind of build on that,
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I think if you fall in love with the process,
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the product will just fall into place later on.
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And if you set the standard high,
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like Coach is talking about,
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you may feel a little short,
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but since you set it so high,
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you can probably live with that result.
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Do you think you could teach that drive, that want and desire?
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Or is that something that you have to be born with?
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I think there's two responsibilities there.
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I think the first responsibility falls on the coach to create an environment
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and a standard that really kind of supports the habits that you want to have in your players.
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And then second is it's the player.
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The player is given the tools and the environment from the coach.
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but they're the ones that got to strike the match to have that fire within.
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They can have all the tools possible.
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We've heard the statement, you can lead a horse to water,
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but they got to drink it.
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Same type of thing.
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So I always talk about that fire and desire inside,
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but the player is the one that's got to strike the match to get it going.
18:05
What if you don't have it?
18:06
What if you have all the things?
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Let's say you're 6'4".
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Yeah, and that happens.
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It's a coach's dream, and coaches deal with this
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and wrestle with this all the time.
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right you have this great player they have all these they have the height the skill
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all this stuff that you want in anything but you know they're not hungry enough and it's it's the
18:26
work that you have to do with that player and the mindset you have to try to get them in
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and you know we talk about like him and I were talking about outside about skills and drills
18:35
but also a part a big part of coaching today is you know the mindset of your athlete and I think
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the mindset of your athlete really matters and that's how you can help try to you know wrangle
18:46
in that thought process of how can we help build that desire.
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But they're going to have to want it in the end.
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It can't be mom and dad want them to be great.
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They got to want it.
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That's a huge part of all of this is like the parent aspect I find to be really challenging
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as a parent, okay?
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And as like a sports obsessed parent, I'm calling myself out here.
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I'm a yeller on the sidelines.
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I am very guilty of it.
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I do respect coaches and refs like more than anything in the world.
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You will always find me like thanking a coach, thanking a ref, making sure my kids are doing the right thing.
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But as a parent, sometimes we want our kids to have that drive.
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We want our kids to have that work ethic that you're talking about.
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But sometimes they just don't have it.
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Sometimes they just don't have the skill.
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Like I see it in – especially I see it like on the Sunday youth leagues that are not necessarily AAU, right?
19:46
Like they're these community organized divisions and you play within the community and you see these parents are dying for their children to be good at basketball.
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They're just – they're living vicariously through them.
20:01
And I always wonder like the self-esteem impact because the kid's not good.
20:09
The kid just doesn't have the skills yet, let's just say, and the parent is dying inside.
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And I find that it's so difficult for a coach to coach when a parent is so obsessed with the kid winning and being the best and doing instead of letting them learn and play as they go.
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and fall in love with the game.
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I think that's most important
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because I think that if you have passion about something,
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you know, put in the sport or put in the activity,
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that player, that student, that child
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is gonna really wanna pursue that more.
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So it starts with like, you know,
20:50
falling in love with the sport,
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falling in love with the game,
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and then also combining that
20:55
with teaching them those great habits
20:56
in terms of checking in, attending practice,
20:58
being on time and all those things.
21:01
If you have goals of wanting to increase performance, right?
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But the parents for sure are a part of the equation.
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I always talked about that.
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It's like coach, the athlete, the parent, and having that dialogue.
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But I think it's important that parents see that.
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It's their journey.
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It's your child's journey.
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And let them go through that process.
21:21
Do you find it's different within our world?
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With what?
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Meaning we have these like Sunday leagues, okay?
21:29
And you see, listen, I've seen people play at the center.
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I've seen people play in the five towns, and it is wild how the parents sort of get involved.
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And sometimes it's for the positive, and sometimes you see a child's face.
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You just see the defeat, and you're like, oh, I just want to scoop you up and show you how fun it could be.
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Because the kids feel it from the parents.
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They feel it from their—
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Car ride home.
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The car ride home is the most important thing.
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parent on the car ride home.
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I think the best thing to do is get in the car because I also
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coach my own son.
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And sometimes there's a whole bunch of different things that can go on in that
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world, right?
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So it's really about thinking it through.
22:15
And I think that the car ride home can
22:17
be probably for some kids, the most painful part of the day, right?
22:20
Especially if I didn't play
22:22
well, because now I got to hear about it on the way home.
22:24
So I think just allowing them,
22:25
you know, you get in the car, just if they want to talk about the game, they'll talk about the game
22:29
and kind of go in a different direction sometimes and let it simmer,
22:32
and then you can always talk about it later.
22:36
I agree.
22:37
But what happens when a kid is just so over-the-top upset?
22:41
I've had kids – listen, my own kids are young to some extent,
22:48
and it's different with boys than it is with girls.
22:50
I just came back from a travel-like tournament,
22:55
and the girls were so emotionally drained by the whole thing.
23:00
Whereas when my son goes on these travel tournaments,
23:04
he is so fired up and like it's not an emotional thing.
23:08
It is a pragmatic understanding.
23:12
And how do you balance the two?
23:14
Where you're like dealing with kids' emotions
23:18
and the parents' emotions and everything else.
23:20
You have to be a therapist.
23:21
You literally have to be a therapist
23:23
in order to make sure that their self-esteem is not totally tanked.
23:28
Because losing is part of the game.
23:31
Learning how to lose.
23:32
Do you feel like you know how to handle kids when they lose?
23:37
For sure.
23:38
But I think that it's really important that the parents,
23:45
because they're going to show it more to the parents
23:47
than they are going to show it to you.
23:49
It depends on the level.
23:50
If you're working with high school kids, you see them a lot more often.
23:52
depends if it's an AAU game and you have three games in the day, you only have a chance to really
23:57
talk about the loss.
23:59
If it's a school game, then that hurts a little bit more because you don't
24:04
have so many of them and there's such a long break in between games.
24:08
And you get to, you know,
24:09
they really show their emotions and they're upset with their parents probably when they get home.
24:14
Because in the locker room, in the locker room, if you see the kids are upset, that's your, we don't
24:18
leave the locker room until everyone feels good, but you don't really know.
24:22
So then when they go
24:23
home, it's really the parent.
24:24
And then when they come to the practice the next day, usually the
24:26
kids are like, okay, we're moving on to the next thing.
24:30
But when a kid is really, really, really
24:31
upset, yeah, you have to deal with them differently.
24:37
And if it's your best player that's upset,
24:39
then if it's a kid who's upset because he didn't get as much playing time, like there's so many
24:43
different things and how to handle them.
24:46
But the most important thing is for them to realize
24:48
is that the team is a family,
24:51
just like your parents are your family,
24:52
and that you could, it's okay to talk.
24:56
I do think the, I tell parents all the time,
24:59
like I love when parents call me and say,
25:00
how's my son doing?
25:02
You know, with the skill development and how's it going?
25:04
Because I tell them, it's like,
25:05
they say, oh, I'm sorry to bother you.
25:06
It's like, really, really, you know,
25:08
thank God we train a lot of kids.
25:09
It's really not so many parents that call me
25:11
to ask me that question.
25:12
And so it's great that you're trying to be involved
25:14
and understand what the kid needs to work on
25:15
and stuff like that.
25:16
But I think it's important that
25:18
the parent kind of directs the kid, oh, you're upset about something.
25:22
Why don't you talk over
25:23
with coach?
25:23
Because sometimes the parent's message isn't going to be the same message
25:27
the coach is saying.
25:28
And then there's only so much you can do in the time you have to practice
25:32
to, you know, I tell the kids all the time, I'm like, listen, I care about your parents.
25:36
I like
25:36
your parents.
25:37
I know you love your parents, but right now these 15 guys are the only people that
25:40
matter right now.
25:41
You can't be looking over at your parent during the game because like, yeah,
25:45
They want what's best for you.
25:45
I want what's best for you too.
25:46
But like, you have to, like, you want to look at them.
25:49
Then like, why am I here?
25:50
Like you have to, you know, it's important.
25:53
And we try to tell parents before the season begins,
25:55
like, hey, like this is, you know,
25:58
like we're there in practice.
25:59
So like no disrespect or whatever,
26:01
just you have to stay in your lane.
26:04
And I find, and you're probably good at it.
26:07
I find that coaches, when they come
26:10
to watch their kid play for someone else,
26:13
they're the most respect
26:13
because they know what it's like to be a coach
26:15
and they don't want,
26:16
they don't like when parents are like that.
26:17
So I'm sure if you ever had your kid play
26:18
and you're watching,
26:20
it's like, you probably don't say a word
26:21
because you know it's not the right thing to do.
26:22
And you probably know just as much as the coach
26:24
because you're a coach yourself too, but you can't.
26:27
I'll go watch kids that I've coached before.
26:29
Like parents are like excited
26:30
because they think I'm going to coach them.
26:31
I'm like, listen, like I'm just going to sit there and watch
26:34
and like, I'll talk about it maybe after with you.
26:35
But like, I'm not going to tell a kid
26:36
what to do on the court
26:37
because that's not what the coach wants to do.
26:39
Like you can't.
26:40
So it's hard.
26:41
My parents don't understand it.
26:42
I don't think it's coming from a bad place.
26:44
Definitely not coming from a bad place.
26:45
They just, like, even when I was playing,
26:47
I remember my dad used to tell me, be more aggressive.
26:49
Like, that's not just a bad thing to say,
26:50
but like, I don't know.
26:51
Like, it's annoying to hear as a coach.
26:53
So it's hard for the parents to understand, so.
26:56
It's amazing because this kind of circles back
26:57
to the mindset of the athlete
27:00
and giving them also tools
27:01
that they need to be successful, right?
27:04
So we just got involved with this great app
27:07
that's AI-driven called the Mastery App.
27:09
and we're supplying it to all of our lightning players coming up.
27:13
We're about to unfold it and release it.
27:16
But basically what it is is an app that goes on a device for a player
27:20
and then they can input a feeling that they're having.
27:23
Maybe it's about playing time.
27:24
Maybe it's anxiety before a big game.
27:28
Insert whatever the situation is.
27:30
And then the app generates audio, breathing techniques,
27:35
and helps get that athlete in the right mindset
27:37
for whatever the circumstances.
27:39
So, you know, we spend so much time talking about skills, drills, and X and O's.
27:44
But, you know, the mindset of modern day athlete today is really important.
27:48
And it's important as coaches, you know, we think about the steps and tools that are necessary
27:53
to try to supply them, you know, with the best chance to succeed.
27:57
I agree with the mindset aspect.
27:59
But do you think that in a world now where like everyone has anxiety, literally every
28:04
single child is coming in?
28:06
I have anxiety and it's so stressful.
28:07
And I like, is it hard to coach through that part of it?
28:11
Because it is like when a kid has a bad day in school and then they come to the game and they're
28:16
like totally out of sorts, how do you get them back in that mode?
28:19
Well, you know what?
28:20
Basketball
28:21
was my therapy as a player, you know, regardless of what was going on in my world, whether I was
28:26
a teenager or, you know, college player, whatever it was.
28:31
Even as a coach, sometimes it's just your
28:33
therapy, you get on the court and you know, like everything else outside of that doesn't really
28:37
matter for those 60 minutes or 90 minutes that you're there.
28:40
You're with your teammates, you're
28:41
with, and that's why it's important that you pick an environment that's really nurturing to your son
28:47
or daughter.
28:47
Because if you have, if they're going to practice in a game and they're really being
28:52
constructively taught how to play and an environment is there that it's nurturing
28:57
and supportive, right?
28:59
They can take and take that time and that 60 minutes, 90 minutes as an outlet.
29:03
That is a stressor.
29:04
That's a huge thing because every child needs something different.
29:08
And I, listen, I have four kids and every child of mine needs a different type of coach.
29:14
They're not the same.
29:14
You know my kids.
29:15
For sure.
29:17
And every single one is a completely different player and a completely different like personality type.
29:26
And with that, I had to make a choice as a mom, like which program do I put my kids into?
29:32
Yeah.
29:33
because not every coaching style is the same.
29:35
Not every kid needs the same thing.
29:36
Listen, I have one kid who is a phenomenal sports player,
29:41
and I have another kid who's great at sports and great at basketball,
29:46
but the drive is very different.
29:50
So he's the one that plays for Lightning and he plays for Rep,
29:52
and you can see the different skill set.
29:57
And I made a choice for my second son that maybe a certain program
30:03
wasn't right for them.
30:04
And I switched them to a different one where the coaching system was
30:07
a lot calmer and they focused more on the whole child rather than winning and moving forward.
30:17
And it really changed his entire personality.
30:21
Like they started to develop better.
30:23
And actually,
30:23
he's better at sports now because he's been going to programs like yours where
30:30
building his confidence and he's learning the skills and playing better rather than being
30:35
sat on a bench the entire time not learning any skills whatsoever.
30:40
And I think that that's a huge
30:41
thing.
30:41
Like, how do you balance, like, I want my kid to do well, and I want them to be part of a
30:48
team, but they're probably not going to get the same amount of minutes.
30:52
I also think that basketball,
30:54
especially in our community but in general is a social thing yes so as important it is for a kid
31:01
to be on a team and play it's also important for them on a Saturday or a Sunday or any day to go in
31:07
the backyard and be able to play with their friends and you don't want to you don't want to
31:11
be in a position where your son doesn't feel confident just to step on the court and play
31:16
so just to have the ability to like know the game or play a little bit is is is good because it
31:21
allows them to be around friends because that's what boys do.
31:24
And even that's what girls do now.
31:26
So, you know, it's important for them just to be around kids and play sports.
31:31
I say that my kids can, we were in Israel for Passover and I dropped my kids off at the park,
31:41
in the middle of Jerusalem.
31:43
And because they had that skill, they had a huge pickup game with kids
31:48
from California and Israel.
31:50
And like, it was crazy.
31:53
And you really do see that because in
31:56
our community, obviously we don't have electronics on the Sabbath and you're really spending a lot
32:03
of time on unwinding.
32:06
And part of that is hanging out with friends, having these meals together.
32:10
And sometimes you have meals with people you don't even know.
32:12
And they could be a little weird
32:15
for kids.
32:16
Well, the parents know each other, but the kids don't.
32:19
And if you're able to play sports,
32:21
I promise you, you're so right that it like changes in a second all of a sudden they're
32:26
friends.
32:27
And you're like, oh, okay, great.
32:28
It wasn't so awkward.
32:29
It's so easy to feel confident
32:32
and good because I could pick up a ball.
32:34
What happens if your kid is not so good at that?
32:38
Can you try to encourage them?
32:41
Like maybe they like building Lego more or whatever the case may
32:45
Do you think that there is a way to really like help them, especially like you do – there's also Little Lightning, right?
32:54
Yeah.
32:54
Where teach them from like a young age just like basic skills so that they're able to feel confident to get on the court like you spoke about.
33:02
Is there like a way you can help your kid as a parent push them to even not be scared to get on the court with the little skill they have?
33:12
I think it's about exposure.
33:13
You brought it up.
33:14
Sports break barriers, right?
33:15
All those barriers that you talked about,
33:17
we're talking about religious barriers right now.
33:19
So sports break the barrier
33:21
and giving your kid exposure to being a multi-sport athlete
33:24
is also really important in a young age
33:26
because it's their journey
33:28
to find like what they're passionate about.
33:30
It goes right back to that whole topic.
33:32
And if you give them the exposure to basketball
33:34
and you give them an environment
33:36
that's gonna really teach fundamentals and development
33:38
and give them those basic tools
33:40
so that when they go with their friends,
33:41
hey, mom, dad, I really like this.
33:43
I want to do this at a little bit more competitive of a stage.
33:47
And then you have options through there.
33:50
So when we talk about like a more competitive stage, okay,
33:56
and we are in the era of social media.
34:00
I know you have used social media to really capitalize
34:03
and show the world what basketball could be.
34:08
You've really used that tool, and I see it a lot.
34:11
You're starting to do that also.
34:13
And do you find that social media is a distraction or a help when it comes to basketball?
34:20
Because we see this like culture of like highlight culture and where kids are doing crazy allupes and trying to get these like slam dunks so that the clips that they can post are wild.
34:32
Do you think that it's helping or hindering us?
34:35
At least with the kids that I coach, I think, I don't know, I think like before a game if they see the guy, like it's cool.
34:43
but I don't know if kids during the game are like,
34:46
there's a video guy here.
34:47
I'm going to go between the legs, behind the back.
34:50
I don't really see it so much.
34:53
Maybe because most of the kids that we coach are younger.
34:56
But even like the high school kids,
34:57
when we go to Maccabee and different things like that,
34:59
like the kids want to win.
35:02
So I think it also depends on the culture that you're breeding.
35:05
Like, you know, I had a kid in fourth grade game the other day,
35:09
made pass behind his back.
35:11
and so the kid's really talented and really good pastor so I called him over I was like
35:17
like why'd you make that pass and like he said like that was really the only way I could get
35:20
it there so okay you know at least like like we're you have to manage it it doesn't mean that
35:24
you should never do that if you're capable of doing something and you want but it just has to
35:27
be for the right reasons and so um I think the the I think I think it's easy to see if you think a
35:33
kid's doing it for the wrong reasons and then you could just have to work with them and doing that
35:36
you have to think about it like if if whatever you you do if if someone was videoing you would
35:42
want to do it to the best of your ability but but i think when the game's going on it's so much
35:46
happening and yeah i mean you're holding them accountable for their mistakes i don't think
35:49
they're just gonna start doing it so much but i think after the game they all run to see oh like
35:54
what was posted what was going on um i don't think it's i don't think i don't right now i don't see
35:58
it so bad um i'm curious i was gonna say i think it's a different culture i think it's what you
36:05
prioritize.
36:06
So you're always going to have people that are going to trophy chase and highlight
36:10
chase.
36:11
And if a coach is thinking about social media and having those discussions with their
36:16
team, if you're posting stuff that is focused in on the player running back on defense and getting
36:21
a tip ball, knock it out of bounds or diving on a loose ball or ball movement, you know, I think
36:27
some of the best clips that coaches can post or teammates can post is, you know, spacing and ball
36:31
movement and then find the open look.
36:33
And I talked to our teammates about we shots over me shots.
36:38
And a team, when they go down the floor, five guys seeking the best shot that they can get.
36:43
And having those discussions with, let's say, 10-year-olds is really important.
36:47
Just like a
36:48
varsity coach having those discussions with a 16-year-old is really important, whether they're
36:52
having that in a film session or at a practice.
36:55
So if you're highlighting that and prioritizing
36:58
that and you're having those conversations, that's what, that's what you want your team to kind of
37:03
get into the mindset of thinking.
37:05
So each team is different and each kid's going to be different.
37:07
And then you're always going to have people out there, you know, posting some highlights that
37:10
are self-centered.
37:11
Just like you're going to have players that are going down there, you know,
37:13
seeking a shot that they can get because they're focused on how many points they get, right?
37:17
And
37:17
they're point counters, you know?
37:19
So, and you're always going to have people that are going to
37:21
trophy chase.
37:22
They're going to switch jerseys and just try to get on the team that's going to win.
37:25
and I think the most important thing is that
37:27
you put yourself in an environment where you're going to really develop
37:30
as a player
37:32
I think that's a little different in our community
37:34
than it is in other communities
37:35
because
37:36
we only have so many
37:41
opportunities
37:41
I would say
37:43
when it comes to trophy chasing
37:45
or stat chasing
37:48
I don't really find that
37:49
do you find that so much?
37:50
not so much
37:51
I mean look if you play for your school teams
37:53
you're not going to switch schools.
37:54
You know what I'm saying?
37:55
So, you know, it's not.
37:57
I think it's more club I was talking about.
37:58
Yeah, well, even that stuff.
37:59
Even club, we don't have that much, right?
38:01
I mean, look, I mean, you don't have your son
38:05
in an all-Jewish program,
38:07
but if people want to be in an all-Jewish program,
38:09
how many options do they have?
38:10
Right.
38:10
So that's probably to your point
38:12
that there's not really many options for that stuff.
38:16
So no, I don't see it as much,
38:17
but I also don't know if the Jewish community in general
38:20
is looking so much to be out and playing
38:23
and all these different things.
38:25
Now, when I was a kid,
38:27
I had to go outside to look to these different things.
38:30
But now there's more between my program and other programs.
38:33
There's more things going on within the community.
38:35
So why do you have to go outside so much more to do that?
38:40
Before he was training with me,
38:42
I'm sure he was doing, like he wasn't sitting home,
38:44
but you wouldn't have that.
38:46
So now you have an option with the Jewish program,
38:49
Maybe that doesn't, you don't have to drive him somewhere else.
38:53
He's in the Lightning program,
38:54
but he doesn't have to be in three other programs like that outside.
38:58
So there's more options within the community to help the kids.
39:01
I think it's helping them.
39:04
The kids in Brooklyn, now we started to put together travel teams
39:07
and they're going to play in Basketball City.
39:08
That's the next step for them.
39:10
They always wanted to stay local and just play in the community league.
39:12
Now they want more competitions.
39:13
Now they're playing for us and going there.
39:15
But again, parents and really parents in our community,
39:19
the first question is where is it
39:20
if it's outside of a certain drive they're out
39:22
you know so
39:23
as parents in every community
39:26
I don't blame them
39:28
I'm like it's really far Massapequa like when are we gonna have
39:30
like our own gym so that
39:32
we don't have to go so far so it's like so true
39:34
that's what it is
39:35
we don't want to have to go all over
39:38
the world especially when we feel
39:40
that like at least I feel
39:43
for my own kids
39:44
like he's not gonna
39:46
be 6'4".
39:47
Unfortunately, he has really Jewish genes.
39:50
And he's going to be probably, if he's
39:54
lucky and he gets on growth hormones, which is like an epidemic in our community, everyone is
40:00
on a growth hormone.
40:04
He might not, he'll play high school or she'll do high school, but maybe
40:09
She'll do college if she plays for Stern,
40:11
whatever it is.
40:14
But I don't know.
40:16
And I think you're right that like a lot of,
40:19
we play a lot just together.
40:22
And I think that there is fun
40:25
in seeing the other competition
40:27
and being able to play against kids
40:30
who are looking to go play division one, NBA.
40:34
And listen, Shai has kids on his team
40:37
that could truly make it to the NBA.
40:41
They have these natural abilities
40:42
that I've never seen ever.
40:45
And I'm like, my mouth is like wide open.
40:47
I'm like, you're 10?
40:48
How are you 10 years old?
40:50
Like, it's crazy.
40:52
But also like within the Jewish community now,
40:55
there's so much talent across the entire country
40:59
that like a junior Maccabee or a Maccabee
41:02
gets them that exposure.
41:03
Like maybe they don't need to so much
41:06
go into the non-Jewish world, if they can, well, first, let me get out of Brooklyn.
41:10
Let me go play
41:10
a team from California that's Jewish also before I go out there.
41:14
So like when they have these one
41:15
week stints or weekend stints, sometimes that's enough for the parent to say, hey, they branched
41:20
out of the community.
41:21
But then you have other people that really, really want to do it.
41:24
And
41:24
that's why you have Shai doing different things like that.
41:28
Then, you know, but as far as like the
41:31
whole, I don't think so many parents are pushing for that right away.
41:36
Maybe if they see their kid
41:37
is really, really, really into it and they're really the best, best, then they'll put them in
41:41
those situations.
41:42
Do you think that religiously we are doing that to also keep a little bit of
41:50
that protection?
41:51
I don't know.
41:54
I mean, I'm not a parent yet, so I can't tell you.
41:58
but I think it's only good to be with people that aren't Jewish because you're going to be with them
42:05
the rest of your life when I went to college even if you want to go to YU okay great after you're
42:09
22 years old you have to deal with people that you don't necessarily grow up dealing with and
42:14
you have to understand how the real world real world works so why not experience it when you're
42:19
younger I don't know that's necessarily do that I think it also has to do with well if I'm the
42:24
only person that's going to go to this non-Jewish program or this program that's going to be further
42:28
away from me.
42:28
Now I got to do the drop off and the pickup.
42:30
When I carpool, you know how many
42:32
parents, they drive once or twice a semester because they carpool with 10 kids or they have
42:36
a driver for the 10 kids.
42:37
So it's, you know, it's, it's sometimes it's a little bit more difficult.
42:40
But I think there's plenty of like, I know kids besides for your son that also, you know,
42:45
want to do and play in different programs.
42:46
And I did it as a kid also.
42:48
I think because of that,
42:49
it allowed me, like, if I only had Jewish connections, how far would it take me in the
42:52
basketball world and the coaching world.
42:54
It wouldn't.
42:55
So it for sure helped me.
42:56
And I think
42:57
it would help most kids.
42:59
And that's why I try to give them that experience within my program.
43:01
That's why we play in these other things.
43:03
But I like the opportunity to be able to have my
43:06
all Jewish team go to play against these non-Jewish teams.
43:10
And because they get to
43:13
build relationships, but also it's some sort of comfort level.
43:17
Like when I was playing,
43:18
it's like, I had to miss a practice on a Friday night or a Saturday.
43:21
It's like, well, now what's
43:22
going to be.
43:23
And obviously, you know, Kevin made it clear.
43:25
It doesn't, they don't hold you
43:25
accountable, but like, I don't know.
43:27
It's just, it's, there's enough Jewish talent where they
43:30
could play and compete against non-Jewish teams or more competitive teams.
43:34
I think it goes to
43:35
value and investment, right?
43:37
It boils down to those two things.
43:39
If the value is there
43:40
with the program and the coach that you're with, and there may be also instilling also values within
43:45
your child, right?
43:47
It's worth that investment, not just only financially, but also the investment of
43:51
our time and the things that we maybe have to sacrifice, whether, you know, time with family
43:57
and friends or, you know, time away from other things that we would be doing.
44:01
So I think that's
44:03
just something we have to look at.
44:04
I think it's also for us, at least in my perspective, is that
44:11
my value system is solely in the Jewish world.
44:15
Like I want my kids to keep Shabbos and to keep
44:17
kosher and because there's so much beauty in that part of it.
44:22
But I also want them to be exposed.
44:24
I also want them to know that there's an outside world out there, but you can straddle both sides.
44:30
You can live in both worlds and be able to really appreciate what the other side has to offer.
44:42
And you guys are both doing that within your programs.
44:45
Listen, Shy Plays for Lightning,
44:47
where he can't go to Friday night practices.
44:50
You're 100% right.
44:51
He doesn't go to Friday night practices.
44:52
Sometimes he misses games.
44:54
And sometimes I go, he's like worried,
44:55
like, shoot, am I not going to be able to play the next time
44:58
because I missed that practice or whatever it is.
45:01
But it happens to be that we pick,
45:05
well, we decided to stay with a team
45:08
that felt accommodating
45:12
and understood the value and the drive.
45:14
And he practices four nights a week.
45:16
I find that it's harder within our community to find four nights a week to even practice because we put a lot of value in education and we put a lot of value in multi-sports or multi-extracurricular things.
45:32
They're also in school longer.
45:32
They have the double curriculum.
45:33
Exactly.
45:34
We're in school.
45:35
I just said, I'm like, we don't end school until 5 o'clock.
45:37
And then I jump in the car to drive them to Timbuktu in order to get them to their games.
45:42
Right.
45:43
So it's really, it's, it's, I feel like it's a little bit harder.
45:50
And do you find that there's like, it's difficult to coach a kid who has these restrictions
45:57
and, or do you want them on your team because they have this like value system of, of honoring
46:03
like responsibility and standards and things like that?
46:08
Um, yeah, I think it's important to like in the world we live in to celebrate our differences.
46:13
and to give our kids an education on that.
46:17
And with regards to the amount of practice,
46:20
I mean, being in the gym three days a week,
46:22
obviously you want to focus in on some things.
46:26
And I think the important value is it's not about quantity,
46:30
it's about quality.
46:32
So when you are going to the gym,
46:34
the quality sessions that you're getting from your coach
46:37
or from your trainer are really valuable
46:40
to help you take it to the next stage of development.
46:43
Okay.
46:43
I'm going to ask you guys like really quick rapid fire questions.
46:46
First things that come to mind.
46:49
Okay.
46:49
MJ, Kobe, or LeBron?
46:51
MJ.
46:52
Kobe.
46:53
Always Kobe.
46:54
I'm sorry.
46:54
I'm sorry.
46:55
You are in.
46:55
That's another discussion for next podcast.
46:57
I'm sorry.
46:58
But like I'm a diehard Laker fan.
47:00
I made my bridesmaids wear Laker purple.
47:02
I'm not exaggerating.
47:03
Kobe was life.
47:04
Okay.
47:05
Like Mamba forever.
47:06
And so we're going to disagree.
47:09
Okay.
47:10
What's one drill you won't stop running?
47:13
a competitive drill that focuses on finishing that i run we can lay up drill okay i hear that
47:20
one too okay mental toughness or natural ability mental toughness mental toughness but i feel like
47:27
it's easy like i call it grit grit grit is is the number one reason why people are successful
47:36
if you've ever read the book on grit there's like it's it's huge so i agree totally um what's more
47:42
impressive, a 30-point run or zero turnovers in 30 minutes?
47:47
Zero turnovers.
47:48
I feel like the right
47:49
answer to say zero turnovers, but 30-point run sounds pretty cool.
47:51
I was going to say, I'm like,
47:52
that's really cool, but yes.
47:55
But I do think I watched girls' basketball is very different than
47:58
boys' basketball and girls' basketball.
48:01
It is just one turnover after another and a jump ball
48:03
after another, after another.
48:04
I'm like, what is happening here?
48:07
And I know that I was guilty of
48:08
but also just grab the ball in front of you.
48:10
But I hear that.
48:12
Okay, most important part of the game, defense or offense?
48:16
Defense because it leads to offense.
48:17
There you go.
48:17
Yeah, I agree.
48:18
Defense leads to offense.
48:19
Okay.
48:20
What's one thing you look for when you're drafting your team?
48:25
People you want to be around.
48:28
Sorry, go.
48:30
Just having people you want to be around,
48:33
not just, oh, they're good at basketball.
48:35
You want to be around.
48:36
You're going to be in practice.
48:37
You're going to be in games.
48:37
You're going to be in the locker room.
48:38
people you surround yourself with, people you want to spend time with.
48:41
Yeah, I think great teammates is super important.
48:45
And, you know, that team first mentality.
48:47
People that are going to come in and focus on the one mission
48:50
in terms of what we would.
48:51
And that sometimes makes a player sacrifice certain things too.
48:57
What's the best advice you ever got from a coach?
49:02
Be who you are.
49:05
The most important play is the next one.
49:08
I like that.
49:08
Okay.
49:09
And to end off, in one sentence, why should kids play sports?
49:19
I think kids should play sports because of all it's going to give to you after life after sports.
49:26
And it's going to help you with the workforce.
49:29
It's going to help you in real life with
49:30
relationships across so many different avenues.
49:33
And I think it's important that kids play multi-sport.
49:36
it's a microcosm of the world so whatever you learn in basketball or sports in general
49:42
take for the rest of your life i love it thank you guys so much thank you for having us thank you
49:47
thank you it was really great and so informative seriously really i really really appreciate it
49:52
okay guys thank you thank you okay i hope it wasn't so painful no it was great it was great
49:56
that was good
49:59
hopefully we don't look too nervous on camera no i don't think you look
50:02
Thank you.