Latest / ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence / Prem Kumar Gokuladasan on How Technology Can Transform India’s Rural Education (#037)

Transcript

Prem Kumar Gokuladasan on How Technology Can Transform India’s Rural Education (#037) · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Three months back, I get a video from a district called Kalakurchi, which is one of those you know the backward districts uh educationally in Tamil Nadu.
0:09
SPEAKER_03: One kid uh uh sends a video and that is shot uh from by his mom, and actually he is trying to learn French.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: He's telling me that grazias means thank you, and uh what is for good morning, things like that.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: He comes and you know talks through his video and sends that video.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that is something the biggest motivation what we'll get.
0:32
SPEAKER_03: So that is number one because language learning, right?
0:35
SPEAKER_03: The most important thing is about practice, it is not about I know theory.
0:39
SPEAKER_03: So I was we were so happy that we have made him to attempt and experience that.
0:43
SPEAKER_03: So using technology, I do not know who he is, but he's sending us this video.
0:47
SPEAKER_03: This is one.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Hi, Primkumar.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh, thanks a lot for uh joining in and uh lovely to have you as a guest and uh looking forward to a brilliant conversation.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot for spending time and talking to us.
1:07
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you, Swami.
1:09
SPEAKER_03: First of all, thank you so much and uh uh for this opportunity and uh the kind of uh variety of podcasts you do.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: Very, very interesting, and thank you so much for inviting me here.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh privilege to be with uh Contramates Podcast.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: So very happy.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, thanks, Prayam Kumar.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh so first I wanted to talk to you about uh so what's your background, Prayam Kumar?
1:31
SPEAKER_02: So where did you start your life?
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh I know you're doing something transformational, uh, but uh you know what's your background?
1:39
SPEAKER_02: What's your backstory?
1:41
SPEAKER_03: Sure, thank you.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: Uh so I'm uh basically I hailed from Trichi and after all my schooling, I uh uh joined PHG Tech in uh 1994 to 90.
1:52
SPEAKER_03: I did my production engineering.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh after that, again I ventured a couple of companies uh getting experience into uh IT.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: Um then I felt probably there's a you know uh something else is calling me.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: You know, I got on to do my uh MBA from Badas and Institute of Management from 2002 to 2004.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: After that, I uh you know went back to IT and uh been working with TCS and HCL.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh overall 19 years of experience I've got so uh working in IT.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that that is how you know the journey has been.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: And um uh with the kind of um now the kind of variety of experiences you know what I had working in India, um, and uh then I I moved to uh UK for three years.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: Um then again from 2013 to 17, I have been working in Germany.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: Um then I have been uh working with US customers, you have been working with Chinese customers traveling to Singapore.
2:47
SPEAKER_03: So I think all those gave you know brilliant experiences uh you know all these years.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, that is how that is how, in short, about you know my background.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: So, what's your family background?
2:58
SPEAKER_02: So, where did where did this all start?
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes, this is all education, we know all this is there, but uh tell me a little bit about your early life, your parents, where where did you grow up?
3:09
SPEAKER_02: So, what was it like?
3:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
3:13
SPEAKER_03: Um schooling, yes.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: I think uh completely I'm uh you know born and brought up in uh Trichi, uh, you know, uh Tier 2 city in Tamil Nadu.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Um so my my uh you know father uh was a uh public prosecutor, so into law, and my um mother is a government school teacher.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: Uh so very simple life, and uh I think some some of those very important basics I even now I remember as well.
3:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh my dad used to be very, very straight and very honest, and uh you know, very, very simple life.
3:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh and I think uh that is one very important learning what what I got from my dad.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: He's no more now.
3:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, uh always when uh you know you could have earned more or financially be better and all that.
3:58
SPEAKER_03: My father used to be still very humble, simple life, and uh all along.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: So uh you know, when I look back, I think those uh the honesty, uh uh you know what what he had been working in government offices, things like that has been one very important thing I've learned for years and what he has given me, I think.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: And my uh mom, you know, she used to be a completely uh government school teacher.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: So I've I've been I know visiting to a lot of government schools that time also, even though I never uh you know I was completely in private uh English medium school, uh till 12th standard, and uh kind of completely introvert kind of a character.
4:34
SPEAKER_03: I never, you know, uh not many, not many friends, uh just completely bookish.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: I I I I I do not know you know how to interact with people.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: Um I I do not know to ask real questions and I do not have in-depth knowledge, so completely bookish kind of a person, till 12th standard.
4:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I yes, I think probably because of the scores and being studious, I got into you know good institutions after long.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: So uh very quiet, and now that is that is how uh used to be very simple beginning, I would say.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so uh so was some trigger in uh you know because your mom was in government school, uh, you know, uh this whole uh you know the Kalvi 40 that you're doing.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh do you see some connections of what you saw as a child?
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Therefore, probably did it you know stick in your brain sometimes.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: Did you do you ever think about it?
5:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh not really that age, probably.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I had how government school looks like and what are the difficulties they go through, uh, what they don't get, you know, when when I compare to my own private school and all that I've seen.
5:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, but as as I uh went ahead, I think uh more than my uh you know childhood day, some of those basics, right?
5:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, in terms of my uh feeling for the country, um uh to be very, very straight.
5:58
SPEAKER_03: And uh and I because of being very, very straight, also, even many situations I put myself into very tough uh uh tough times because of being that way, even in corporate and all that.
6:09
SPEAKER_03: So uh though with those basics and things like that, I I just kept moving and I think uh trying to understand what I'm really good at.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: I think also one of those things is like um as I go along, uh really trying to understand what is that I'm good at, right?
6:24
SPEAKER_03: You know, what is that something you know which is interesting?
6:27
SPEAKER_03: What is that I'm capable of, right?
6:28
SPEAKER_03: You know, those are some questions, and uh always when you look at uh uh you know look at uh a lot of things when you go around why why this is not happening, why why you know things are still like this in terms of my country?
6:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, that that kind of an uh underlying unhappiness used to be always there, but yeah, I think you know that that's in short about you know how my you know school is all yeah.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: So uh so tell me uh so what did you see in government schools as a child?
6:59
SPEAKER_02: And you were in a private school, and uh, what do you remember of uh you know those schools not having, and uh that left a deep impression in you and even at as a kid?
7:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as as a kid, I think one one main thing is about the infrastructure, right?
7:14
SPEAKER_03: Number one, infrastructure, and number two, in terms of the quality of teachers, right?
7:19
SPEAKER_03: So these are some two two important things.
7:22
SPEAKER_03: Um I I still remember, I think uh the how passionate uh my teacher used to be in a private school.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, more than me, actually, when I got uh you know uh 198 out of 200 in my mathematics.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh the the my me my teacher used to be you know uh so unhappy and so upset about I you know me not getting into you know 200 out of 200.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: Uh that kind of a passion he has been with me for one year and you know trying to you know that that that is kind of you know what what teachers can do, right?
7:53
SPEAKER_03: Even now, you know, after so many years, I've never spoken to him, but I I it is very close to me in terms of how he has you know giving so I think those are the two important things as a kid also have noticed in terms of one infrastructure, number two, uh uh kind of a you know that that quality of teachers, right?
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, overall.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: You are now uh going to government schools, you're doing a whole host of transformation programs in education through Calvi 40.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, do you see the same issues that were there when you saw as a kid to what is there today?
8:27
SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, today I work with uh much more uh tougher areas.
8:31
SPEAKER_03: I would say when I say uh I know it's a tier two city, and uh you know, uh compared to big cities and tier two cities, you you can see that which are closer to the visibility, things are different.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: But today we consciously said uh I want to stay away from corporate or sorry, uh stay away from big cities and uh you know uh go to real rural, right?
8:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but unfortunately, even today, uh when when we go to deep rural, uh there's still situations in 2022 are you know uh uh I I would say uh painful when when we get out of schools, and I have a lot of stories.
9:08
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to tell you some of those stories, which are really painful in terms of you know, you know, it is very difficult for you know anybody to understand, even if I had uh you know five years back, I I will not tell you this story because I I do not first of all understand.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: But today, because I go and sit with them, stand inside that remote school, I understand what the situation is.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: So yes, I think uh uh I I see much more closer and uh and with much more uh you know kind of a uh with a hat of problem solving.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, that that's how I say it's simple.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: So so this normal uh you know uh people in uh say tier one, tier two cities, for them uh rural is trichy is rural, right?
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Or uh you know, maybe uh you know, a bit of uh you know, Karoor might be rural, or uh, you know, maybe Sanghli might be rural.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: So when you really talk rural, tell me how do you define rural for India?
10:10
SPEAKER_03: So when I when I say rural, um let me take uh you know uh district, right?
10:15
SPEAKER_03: In Tamil Nadu, okay.
10:16
SPEAKER_03: Like let me take example because we are operating completely in Tamil Nadu.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: Uh government school, right?
10:23
SPEAKER_03: Government school in total, right?
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Approximately there are like 43,000 schools to 45,000 school, right?
10:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh in Tamil Nadu with education department alone.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: In each district, uh there are like 1200 to 1800 schools in each district itself.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Um when I say uh rural, almost like uh when you get into the head say headquarters, say Trichi, uh say Parambulguru, Karu, from that to you know reach a particular school, you need to travel at least like 20 kilometers, 30 kilometers.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh and sometimes examples are like one single day, uh, we wanted to visit four schools, single teacher school, right?
11:04
SPEAKER_03: There are like single teachers' school even today exist.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: And when when we consciously wanted to go on address, those are the you know most uh you know struggling schools, and we wanted to visit and trichi we visited four schools in a single day, and we had traveled nearly 240 kilometers in one single day, and uh that is what I I talk about, Rupert, right?
11:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh the the reason I I tell you is that is that um because I I I I being in Chennai, you know, I think the far you are and uh you know and very remote you are, the kind of facility and kind of uh the infrastructure what you have, the kind of access to uh you know um a lot of things are very, very difficult.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: And that makes it uh you know um much more complicated, right?
11:50
SPEAKER_03: So I think that is what I talk about rural.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And uh when you say rural, so when you say rural, uh you talk about 240 kilometers from a place like Q Chi or a district headquarters in any state, okay.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: So that's what you talk about, right?
12:05
SPEAKER_02: So therefore, when you say uh there is a school there, 240 kilometers, so what would be the population of that place?
12:12
SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, how many uh families or uh you know households would be there in that place?
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so in each of these should be like uh uh uh 300 to 500 families, and then uh you know, even you know uh that varies some some sometimes it is like you know 50 families, 100 families are also there.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: So the strength of the school would really vary, like uh you know, uh some schools are like only 20 kids study in the school, and uh some some schools there are only like 45, 50, 60, something like that.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh so yeah, and it is a primary school, so the whole first standard to fifth standard put together, there'll be you know only 20 kids uh 30 kids, and there's only one single teacher available for them to serve the whole all the fifth standard.
12:56
SPEAKER_03: So that is how it is, yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so basically, not more than 50-60 families or more than 100 families, and there is a school out there, and uh that's really where you go and uh do this work that you do, right?
13:11
SPEAKER_02: That's really so that's real rural that we are talking about, right?
13:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so where do teachers come from for these schools?
13:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, I would say at least uh you know 60-70 percent will you know stay away from this place, they have to travel uh at least 20 kilometers, and somebody travels like 40 kilometers in a single day one way and all that, and uh only those you know 20 percent, I would say 20 to 25 percent, um, because of their job and it is not going to be changing frequently, they relocate and probably come within the vicinity of like three to five kilometers, something like that.
13:47
SPEAKER_03: But otherwise, you know, uh teachers have to know really travel a lot and then come to these schools, yeah.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, uh if you have to travel 30-40 kilometers, what's the infrastructure like there in terms of travel first?
14:02
SPEAKER_02: So imagine if I'm a teacher and I have to reach uh school 30-40 kilometers.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh, what's the infrastructure like?
14:10
SPEAKER_02: And can you just describe uh how it how it is for a teacher to travel to a school like this?
14:16
SPEAKER_03: I think um predominantly I think uh the mix it'd be a mix.
14:22
SPEAKER_03: I think uh some of them uh no men generally have their own motorbikes and they would travel.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh females again today teachers like at least like 30-40 percent will drive uh their own vehicle, like you know, even though this like 20-30 kilometers, not much of traffic, so still they will cover the 20-30 kilometers.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: But those who are taking, you know, still I think 50-60 percentage are taking public transport, right?
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh, so it is like they need to take multiple buses, right?
14:53
SPEAKER_03: Today, you know, when you get into rural, it's like and uh uh still there are villages where we have visited, like um a teacher has to get down on a bus stop, and she has to walk like three, four kilometers even today, and uh you know that there's no other uh facility, and uh and yes, I think that is the only option available, and they still continue to do that.
15:13
SPEAKER_03: And those are really inspiring people, and uh you know, um, and uh they they they they they don't complain, but still every day, you know, walking three, four kilometers in in today's situation is you know not used to you know when when we basically look at uh cities and uh you know tire tool, but you know, still people are doing it, and that's what we see.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: And uh because of the population being less, um, the number of uh transport, right?
15:39
SPEAKER_03: Number of shuttles what buses to also is very limited.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: So you have to be on time, or you know, when you miss, it is like probably you have to wait for another two, three hours to get the next one.
15:49
SPEAKER_03: Or only two buses come in in this village, and some people come and tell me that sir, in uh in this village, there's only one bus in the morning and one bus in the evening.
15:58
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there are uh situations like that also.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: My god.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: So when you're really talking rural, you are really talking hinterland rural, right?
16:09
SPEAKER_02: That's where your schools are situated, right?
16:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I think I've not told you, you know, much more another one, you know, really complicated segment of the really the most toughest, which we have not served yet, uh, but we have been working, like uh that is one area, just to tell an example, it's a place called Jabadhi Hills, right?
16:29
SPEAKER_03: So this area is a forest area, and uh like this, there are multiple forest areas in Tamil Nadu, also many many uh states.
16:36
SPEAKER_03: So within this forest area, there are 200 schools, and 200 schools are like distributed all across the forest, and it's a hilly area.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: Only 20 to 30 percentage of the uh this particular area, Jawad Hills, you will have even the mobile network, and remaining, you don't even have mobile network.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, situation is like some schools when we walked, we had to get down, park our vehicle, and then we have to walk at least two, three kilometers on a you know, really like a you know, only a mud road, right?
17:10
SPEAKER_03: There's no proper road, but I have to walk like two, three kilometers to get into the school.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, and also I saw some parents like, you know, sir, uh, this parrot is coming.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, do you know he has just walked eight kilometers from his home to this school?
17:25
SPEAKER_03: So uh you know that is how uh you know situation that is extreme, and that that is one like this forest area and then a known network area, and there are also certain tribal areas where you know zero network and uh you know one of the stuff things where we are not serving, we we we don't have this kind of a uh no network solution, we don't have, but we go and understand these tough terrains.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: I think uh people are really nice and they you know live in their own world, and uh the basically you are completely uh uh disconnected from the whole uh uh system where we are in the reason when I tell you that whether the teacher gets into the school, whether the teacher uh that the school is operational today, uh even the government will not know about it because there is no network.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: So uh so how do we how do you serve them, right?
18:18
SPEAKER_03: So uh that that is how uh you know, and when we see them, and certain times I felt like um even though they are like only 200 kilometers, uh, you know, 250 kilometers from Chennai, I I find that you know they are really like 10-15 years behind them uh behind than what I see teachers in other uh you know districts.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: So what do we do for them?
18:43
SPEAKER_03: So now basically, all this traveler basically to understand the problem deeper.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: I think one of those very, very important things what I learned is like uh it is not about technology, it is not about solutioning, it is not about what you want to offer.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: It is only that you know where they stand, and you know what is the problem, and uh is that something once we try to solve that, and can we give it to you know other states and everybody, right?
19:06
SPEAKER_03: So uh you know that that is understanding the problem is the most important thing, and that is where you know still we feel yeah, we are still touching the surface, we are we are still not you know uh deeper into really solving the problem.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: So it's lovely, it's lovely, Pray.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: I think uh I'm trying to paint a picture to the audience of you know, when you talk rural, people don't get it.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: So that's the reason I'm trying to spend a little bit of time on this.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: And uh tell me the parents of these children.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: So, for example, imagine I there's a 20, 30, we'll come to the single teacher school discussion.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, you know, so what are these parents like?
19:43
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, talk to me about the parents and therefore these kids.
19:47
SPEAKER_03: I think uh one of those very, very important uh stakeholders for uh any kid to get educated uh is uh you know, teacher is very, very important, no doubt about it.
19:57
SPEAKER_03: I think everybody will say, I think the next very important is parent, right?
20:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, so they are the biggest influencers and uh they they are the change makers for those kids.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: But unfortunately, today, I think uh after all this travel, things like that, and our understanding, we definitely feel uh more than anybody.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: I think today we need to educate these parents because see, uh I think you know, all of us today uh are empowered only because of the education what we have got from our schooling and the best institutes we have doing all that.
20:32
SPEAKER_03: But if you and me do not understand, getting educated itself, there is a value, right?
20:38
SPEAKER_03: First of all, I need to be convinced that education can provide me uh you know life for itself.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: I think it's a game changer.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: That is something what is missing within number one.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: I I do not see that value, and uh even when they talk like that, sir, uh my kid has to study and all that, but two, three years if they do not study and they just brand them that okay, this this kid is not capable of studying and all that, and uh you know, parent is like, okay, let him get into some job, things like that.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: So, therefore, what would be the occupation of these parents?
21:12
SPEAKER_03: Uh, occupation would be like uh you know, prominently uh you know, they'll be working on construction, uh they'll be working as drivers, uh, they'll be working in uh factories, they'll be working in you know, farming, they'll be doing farming.
21:26
SPEAKER_03: And when farming is not that great, probably they will migrate and get into some job and things like that.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: So uh that that is how it is.
21:33
SPEAKER_03: So uh all the all these parents are predominantly like that uh value to education has not, you know, uh give them the real job.
21:41
SPEAKER_03: It is like, you know, I'm I'm not even though I they will say, you know, I've done eight standard, ten standard, but actually the job you're doing is is a driver job.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: You're gonna work in a construction, uh, you know, uh working and factory, you know, manual job, things like that.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: So uh really uh an understanding of uh You know, that education can empower, change your generations.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: I think that is something you're not able to find in those parents.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: And I know that is what we slowly want to educate them, saying that it takes probably 10-15 years, but I think one generation and only one generation, if you if you get educated, I think you know, like us, it it it it takes a uh, you know, the curve changes, the graph changes upwards, and generations become better.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, that that that is how we see.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: And uh unfortunately, you know, parents are you know these these are some profiles predominantly and what would be their monthly uh income?
22:41
SPEAKER_03: Monthly, monthly is like really you know varying you know, you know, from 5,000 to uh somebody is getting like you know 15,000, 20,000, 25,000, something like that.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: So they get five to fifteen thousand, but uh uh literally they are in the back of the back kind of villages, and that's really where uh you know these people work.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh today you as a non-profit, uh you know, you uh you focus on these government schools, 43,000 schools in Tamil Nadu.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: That's the first phase that you have taken.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Um so tell me uh how many children would study in this 43,000 schools?
23:23
SPEAKER_03: So uh you know, in terms of numbers, nearly uh 6.8 million kids study in government school in Tamil Nadu, right?
23:32
SPEAKER_03: So uh there are um multiple departments and multiple schools, but in total it is like 6.8 million kids study in uh Tamil Nadu alone.
23:42
SPEAKER_03: So uh this is still 12th standard, yeah.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: So these schools have uh classes from primary to 12th standard, or some schools are only till sixth standard, seventh standard, and then they have to go to a district headquarters for eight standard.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: How is it?
23:58
SPEAKER_02: And therefore these schools will what classes uh you know at least they teach.
24:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the category is like uh we call it primary school, middle school, high school, and higher secondary school.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: So uh the primary schools are the one which is like first standard to fifth standard, and middle school are like first under to eighth standard, and uh high schools are first standard to tenth standard, higher secondary is like first standard to twelfth or sixth to twelfth, either way.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, so uh again, you know, very good question actually.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh, because uh you know this is something where where the population is really high, you know, tier two and big schools.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: You have some something like a higher secondary school where the moment you get admitted, and then you are going to travel till 12th century.
24:41
SPEAKER_03: But getting to a rural school, it is primary school, predominantly it is primary school or middle school.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: So uh they would say till fifth center he was studying here.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: Now he has to go to the middle school, which is like you know, three kilometers away, five kilometers away, uh, and something like that.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: And after middle school, he has to switch over to a next school to high school and higher secondary and things like that.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so therefore, uh the schools that you uh really bring this technology solution uh is really in the primary schools.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh we work in the category from primary to middle.
25:15
SPEAKER_03: So that third standard to eighth standard is the only focus what we have done.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it's a primary school, and uh out of the 6.8 million kids who study, how many of them will be in the primary middle school category?
25:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh primary and middle would be nearly like uh 2.7 million kids would be studying in this category.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Do these schools uh you know you you call them single teacher schools, which means that are you telling me that a single teacher has to teach all subjects, maths, history, uh, you know, uh language.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: So one teacher has to teach all language, all subjects, sorry.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh so I think when 2018, when I was you know understanding this problem and trying to you know go deeper and understand, I think one of those important things is like uh as per MHRT and uh you know state government rule, the ratio is like 30 is to one is the ratio.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: So uh having said that, if a primary school can get only 30 kids or less than that, only one teacher is deputed, right?
26:17
SPEAKER_03: So uh that particular one teacher that's a single teacher school will have to uh teach all the five subjects into all the five uh classes.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: So uh there is no way that a particular teacher can be an expert in almost like 25 uh you know subjects, right?
26:36
SPEAKER_03: If you look at the cross.
26:37
SPEAKER_03: So um it is so so tough, and uh, that is where we we said you know how is this really possible?
26:44
SPEAKER_03: And when we visited these schools, and also you can see because uh the because the size is small, the fourth standard and fifth standard put together will be like 10 kids, and uh you know third standard will be another 10 kids, and uh second standard uh you know first standard would be 10 kids, and then some schools they would uh uh make fourth and fifth sit sit together and teach the sessions.
27:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh for a teacher, like a teacher also would be like uh you know, she might be uh you know science teacher, but you if you ask her to teach social studies, if you ask her to teach mathematics, you know what kind of quality you know we would be able to give them, right?
27:23
SPEAKER_03: So, all these were the questions what what we had, and even today to tell you, you know, I'm not talking about 45,000 schools, I I work with another another department and government, so they have 930 schools that officially will be work with them.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: Last month, when we look at the report, 930 schools in that 146 schools are single teacher schools, right?
27:43
SPEAKER_03: It is 2022, and even today we have like just because I don't have money, just because I I cannot afford to get my kid to you know get in the right school, what is the justification that you know these kind of schools and how do we justify to these kids giving quality education?
28:02
SPEAKER_03: Uh so yes, I think we I understand the constraint what government has and practical and all that.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: But having said that, I think this is the reality from a parent point of view.
28:11
SPEAKER_03: I don't have money, and I know how how long are am I going to uh get this you know quality of education?
28:17
SPEAKER_02: So uh I also read a very interesting thing about you, uh Prame, is that you actually went and did some agriculture to understand the lives of people who live in this area, and you really talk about uh you know the need to understand it before you started building tech platform that you started building.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: So, so what did you do?
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Um 2017, when I came back from Germany, uh one only one thing was clear.
28:43
SPEAKER_03: It was not like I when I came in, I just said I want to do Kalbi Navada, no, nothing like that.
28:48
SPEAKER_03: Actually, when I came in, um because I've I've been working with corporates, I think one important thing generally, you know, I'm I'm not to blame anybody for that matter.
28:57
SPEAKER_03: Generally, for the you know, you know, ease of our own convenience.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: I have fund, I have like X Pro and I have in my CSR bucket and I want to spend.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: And generally, I've seen that you know, we because of our own convenience, we put a rule that I will serve in a radius of 20 kilometers, 30 kilometers, and I spend that.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: So I I I don't see you know these kind of uh uh things and feel very upset that when is rural going to be get served, right?
29:28
SPEAKER_03: Those are the most you know uh the struggling category and nobody serving.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: So when I came back from Germany, I was very clear that I'm going to work only on rural.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: So when I when I said rural, it is very easy to talk about rural and you know interesting quotes and all that.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: But I think um if you want to really understand rural, you have to get down, go understand farming and uh you know how beautiful villages are.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: So I went to Karu, took a three days workshop where you know you have to you know completely stay away from everything, you know, no soap, no plastic, nothing like that in an infrastructure for three days.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: And they teach you uh in and out of you know basics of organic farming, and uh and you tend to look at nature much more closer.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: You tend to love those, you know, uh, how cows are being used in agriculture and all that.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: So after that, I started traveling to many villages looking at uh you know uh this organic farming, uh the difficulties what farmers had, um, and uh you know what is a uh chain supply chain happening and who is selling, who's making market, and went ahead uh you know, knowing about uh why organic farming uh you know retailers are making losses, why they are struggling, what is what is people's mindset?
30:44
SPEAKER_03: But I think those experiences have been phenomenal.
30:46
SPEAKER_03: I know one experience I want to tell you.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: Um uh one day it's like because I used to be working in corporate and uh you know Monday to Friday, uh I used to be you know IT delivery manager, so and then on a Saturday morning, you know, I tend to go on.
31:00
SPEAKER_03: So Saturday morning, I uh took a bus and uh uh very deep, I went to a tribal village, and there is only one bus you know that goes very beautiful, travel all the way almost like uh till you know seven hours, and then get to understand how those tribal are, and you get to see, like you know, you hear about uh bamboo ries and all that.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: No, you get to see all those bamboo ries physically, and you know, those nature and what they do, how they sell, uh, and then come back next day morning around uh you know, um spending two, three hours again, travel back seven hours, come back uh morning at you know six o'clock, seven o'clock home.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: So people used to be thinking, no, you know, this guy is really crazy to do all this, and you know, very unusual.
31:45
SPEAKER_03: But I think those are the brilliant experiences to understand how tough it is, and um still farmers are you know not taught some important skills, and why you know uh I I feel very unhappy about even you know, without a uh ROI, you know, kind of a thinking, farmers are still doing farming, those kind of questions used to come.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I think those are and that is that that is my experience with uh rural and still connected with a lot of you know friends uh across Tamil Nadu who are doing organic farming and all that.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: So that's my little experience in farming.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, it's always good to have a hobby, right?
32:20
SPEAKER_02: Go over the weekend.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, when you come back, you are an IT delivery manager, and then life changes because you have a German customer and things like that.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so how did you really go back and then say, now let me make this hobby my life goal or my life uh you know objective?
32:41
SPEAKER_03: Um very important question, definitely.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: So I think it it is not an overall you know overnight switch, but I think it it is a process, and I think uh thankful to a lot of people.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: I think even today, when I'm sitting and speaking to you, I think a lot of kind people like you come together and just like a small baby, uh, you know, with their experience, they uh take my hand and make me you know walk along with them.
33:03
SPEAKER_03: Um when I when I started this and uh you know 2018 when I when I when I was traveling rural, a couple of examples and then said education, uh I went and went ahead and looked at uh what is available, what is government doing, what is digital uh government is doing, and uh what uh you know uh infrastructure in rural when we have and things like that.
33:24
SPEAKER_03: And when I understood all that, I said uh okay, let me try out a pilot.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: So that is how I started.
33:30
SPEAKER_03: And uh as you know, because when we come from technology, naturally we come with all the latest technology.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: Come on, let's let I know artificial intelligence, I know this.
33:37
SPEAKER_03: Come on, let me go and try.
33:39
SPEAKER_03: Actually, nothing worked back.
33:40
SPEAKER_03: I I tried and voice recognition uh you know mechanism and went ahead and tried.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: I was trying to demo to a rural uh uh expert teacher and completely that demo failed.
33:51
SPEAKER_03: Then I realized that basically, you know, you don't even have uh you know internet facility there, you know, it is like so thin three MVPs, four MVPs, and we are talking about uh artificial intelligence, and every time when I do that, and it is going to go to you know Google server and hit the server, come back.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: This is not going to work.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: And then I then more you know further said uh no look at the book and do some basics, and that is where I decided let's do lightweight.
34:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh even today, two to three MVPs network is good enough for Kalvinapata to stream videos.
34:22
SPEAKER_03: I did my pilot, but I think when we started, uh I had all this idea and paper, and uh because the domain is completely new, I'm kind of an introvert, I don't have big connections, I don't meet people, I don't socialize much.
34:36
SPEAKER_03: So uh when I had all these papers, and then I was you know talking to a lot of people, I wanted support from government school teachers.
34:42
SPEAKER_03: Basically, they are the domain experts, but I think it took me months to you know understand who's the right people and all.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: So over some time I understood and went to Kan Kanji Bram and Kanji Digital Team.
34:55
SPEAKER_03: On you know, a group of government school teachers started supporting me, and then we started doing the pilot.
35:00
SPEAKER_03: And then uh after three months of pilot, I realized that this idea has been working.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: Naturally, when I you know come from you know B school, whatever idea it may be, doing a pilot is sensible.
35:10
SPEAKER_03: So I I did my pilot, 15 villages we tried out.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh then we launched the app.
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I was working the corporate doing uh you know weekend app is live in in Play Store.
35:23
SPEAKER_03: But I think always sitting in corporate is like one.
35:25
SPEAKER_03: I I had my one question, is like uh I'm I'm not able to really uh go out and uh you know uh explore what I'm really good at, and time is running, right?
35:36
SPEAKER_03: Time is running.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm not able to go in the pace what I wanted to see, and you know, I'm I'm really trying to solve a problem.
35:42
SPEAKER_03: I'm not doing a hobby.
35:43
SPEAKER_03: So that unhappiness was after launch, almost like six months.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: I was working in corporate during the weekend.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: This question was there, and then after three months, I said, you know, serious work, and I need to give justice to that.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: And I said, let me take a one-year break and then get out and do this.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: It is not a you know big plan for I had next one year, two year, three year, no, nothing like that.
36:04
SPEAKER_03: It's a serious problem.
36:05
SPEAKER_03: I want to go and try out, and I said it is worth trying, and then I resigned my job and then said, When yeah, nobody accepted this, like it is a sensible idea.
36:16
SPEAKER_03: And uh, still I said, uh, you know, give me one year.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: I want to you know come out of this and be there full time and seriously try.
36:23
SPEAKER_03: And I think I know that is one very important decision.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: When you are serious about it, I think the whole world will look at it that way.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Suddenly, when you move to what you are doing, which is really interland rural, uh, what from technology had you to really unlearn and it shocked the wits out of you, right?
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Because you had to do many things which probably you took for granted, saying, Oh, you are there's client in Germany, there's a client in UK.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: What was the biggest unlearning that you had to do?
36:53
SPEAKER_03: Um, uh being from the technology company and uh uh you always had a team and uh you know, and uh the kind of you know what I would say is like knowledge is like compartment-like, like you know, you tend to work on one area and then uh and uh like that you know things are compartmentalized, and you become expert over time, and then anyway, I think project management and delivery tend to do all that.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: But I think when when you come to solve a problem, I think one of those very, very important things which uh or I think two important things I would say.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: I think number one, um, we generally uh tend to look at you know uh immediately in terms of the uh result next, you know, one year, two years, three years, you know, what is that long term?
37:34
SPEAKER_03: And when we always look at we have to climb a mountain, right?
37:37
SPEAKER_03: And then you look at how complex is the mountain, you know, to get there, and you don't even take the first step.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: So I think the most important thing is like look at that first step and do it well, right?
37:47
SPEAKER_03: Number one.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: Number two, in terms of uh unlearning actually, I think uh incorporate everything you had people to do, you can always delegate and get it done, right?
37:56
SPEAKER_03: As a as a as a delegate manager, I had project managers, and every everything you get it done and you you strategize and do you do only important things.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: Here it is not like that.
38:05
SPEAKER_03: Here, everything is like you have to get down, you know, uh uh and uh do from the scratch, and top to bottom.
38:13
SPEAKER_03: I know from video editing, writing down questions, I have typed questions for my iPhone, I have done app development on my own.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: Uh, even today, if there is some poster to be done and somebody is on now doing I will do a poster for my own and launch it.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: I so anything and everything, you have to you know uh stop looking at I will do only uh X skill and I will not do you know these.
38:36
SPEAKER_03: No, it is not like that.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: When when we when we have to solve problems, you have to you know learn all this.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think you know these are something in terms of uh you know two important things I would say.
38:46
SPEAKER_03: You know, there are many other things where these two important things I would say uh take those first steps, and number two, in terms of uh don't restrict yourself to you know those specializations.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Most often what I find in IT is that you delegate, but you really have to follow up to even get basic work done, right?
39:06
SPEAKER_02: So uh you know that's a big, big problem that at least I have seen.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: So therefore, uh you may think you have delegated, but actually uh, you know, you just have to micromanage to even get an output, right?
39:18
SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, uh here you don't have a team.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Here you have to build everything yourself.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Here you have to think about the problem, you have to think about uh you know doing it yourself, and you may not have the best technology people wanting to do this because it is not uh you know it's not remunerative enough, right?
39:37
SPEAKER_02: So uh so how did you get a team to do this and uh uh tell me about the technology team, what is their motivation and why do they do what they do today?
39:46
SPEAKER_03: Thankfully, very very important question.
39:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I think that that is what makes it very, very complex and very challenging.
39:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh, because you know uh sometimes I used to think that you know, even though in terms of vertical, uh within my own organization in in you know, quarterly meetings, I say there are eight different vertical sitting, and there is only one boss, and everything boils down to me.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: And there is only limited time to you know do this in terms of you know what I can do on a quad-on-quarter basis.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: Um so I think uh that is the biggest challenge.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: So, in terms of technology, I think technology when when I started, uh mainly I naturally I want to do hands-on and understand data trial out and all that, but naturally, uh as a as a founder and when I when you want to focus on very important things, you have to outsource, right?
40:34
SPEAKER_03: So, thankfully, uh I uh thankfully through the connect, we we got an company to outsource.
40:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean very small company, which is uh young people, like you know, they're like 24-25 years uh old, uh small organization, you know, five to ten member old organization.
40:50
SPEAKER_03: And uh that is how uh we started, and were very skeptical that uh you know how how will they do and uh you know, will they understand things like that?
40:59
SPEAKER_03: So, thankfully, even today, free tech uh, you know, they have been traveling with us for the last nearly four years from the scratch, they have been with us.
41:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh, more than anything, they are like even though it's an outsourced you know company, uh, and initially I I was very uh you know thoughtful that I didn't have that much of money to outsource and pay and all that.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: But thankfully, when they started, they said, okay, give me a you know a small check and that's good enough for me.
41:24
SPEAKER_03: So that is how we started the relationship.
41:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but they even though they are an outsourced company, they work like an in-house company, they uh come and you know travel with us, understand, question every single bit.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: Even I tell some wrong requirements, they understand, question me, and that is how uh we we started developing uh the technology.
41:44
SPEAKER_03: And uh and I had uh you know very uh um uh very specific requirements like number one, uh it has to be lightweight.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh so uh that that was number one, and the whole design, even today, is like uh um very lightweight, and in terms of design, also UI design is one of the simplest uh you know design.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: So that used to be thanks to uh my ex-HCL colleague who sits in Germany, uh works in another company today.
42:11
SPEAKER_03: So he is the designer for this.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: The whole thing he has done is like kind of uh uh undisturbed, very plain, uh no distraction kind of a design.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: So uh so that way, uh so all these were you know, uh, because I had the experience of getting things done.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: How do I get things done?
42:28
SPEAKER_03: So that way technology also, because I have my own technology uh background, uh, it was very easy to work with them.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that is how we slowly developed uh, you know, even today we have developed an uh ionic kind of a framework where uh once you deploy the uh develop the app, you can uh put that in both uh uh uh Android uh Play Store and also in Apple.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh so we call it as an hybrid framework, but because our target market is only in Android, uh we have not deployed in uh Apple Play Store, it is only in Android.
43:02
SPEAKER_03: It's a you know very light app you know we have developed, and I I've I've as a uh you know IT guy I've done testing, development, uh uh delivery, everything.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: So I do a lot of testing and uh user testing also.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: So that way, you know, uh because the hands helped me a lot.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: When you outsource IT, the way you would have behaved when you actually were in an outsource IT company.
43:26
unknown: Yeah.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: So actually, what you are doing today when you outsource it, uh, what is the difference between corporate outsourcing and social outsourcing?
43:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think uh corporate outsourcing generally, you know, you tend to believe you know a lot in process, a lot in paper, right?
43:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh and uh even you know that is how you know sitting on the other side, as you rightly asked, you know, being a service provider, you know, uh more than I know the people relationship, it is all about paper, it is all about the evidence, what you show.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: And you know what we have done historically, only that those things speak, and I know you know people are not believed.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: And even for me to develop that relationship with a German customer or a UK customer, it takes years for them to develop the trust, and then and then after that, it is like whatever you say is completely believed, and you just go with it.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: But here it is about um a relationship, right?
44:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh, so uh it is not about because you know you are always on on operating on a constraint because constraint is like I don't have you know big money to go and trial out uh uh finance and get the best of this.
44:34
SPEAKER_03: I even certain features, what I wanted, you know, uh uh what we are doing it today, three years back, even though I have it in the list, because I don't have enough finance, I cannot go and develop that.
44:46
SPEAKER_03: So I have it in the pending list and say, you know, uh CR will come after three years.
44:51
SPEAKER_03: Even today, one of the biggest demands like people actually get very upset that, sir, you are serving only those people with the you know uh online medium where internet is available.
45:02
SPEAKER_03: But see these people who do not have network.
45:06
SPEAKER_03: I talk about Jabad Hills, those are the people they tell me examples like so.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: Those are the people who are you know standing and with hunger, you need to serve them first.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: So these are the examples teachers come and tell me that.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: But yes, these are technology, and then you know, these are fourth steps.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: I will not come to that day one.
45:23
SPEAKER_03: I think uh relationship and the way you work with them, right?
45:27
SPEAKER_03: And uh, so that that is uh you know more than process.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: So, in that process, what happens like because you come from corporate, you know uh you know the process, and uh because I'm I I come from this uh you know project management background, I know where they will fail.
45:41
SPEAKER_03: I know what are the risks I see, and I go and tell them that you know, uh three, four, five, these are something what you are missing, and then you need to do this, and I have an extra check and extra testing for them as a weakness.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: So uh so on this I I go and teach them and also coach them in terms of how do they uh you know uh do not only to me to the you know other customers, how do they you know get better, things like that.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: So it is about uh working to the uh together as a as a uh you know partner and uh uh trying to deliver what best.
46:13
SPEAKER_03: And uh there are experiences where we have you know launched, and uh immediately after that we have renewed all those experiences also there because the market is like that.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: It is very, very tough.
46:24
SPEAKER_03: You think you have understood, and uh, but basically, market will come and tell you that boss, you're completely wrong, right?
46:30
SPEAKER_03: Those are no the day one when we launched, we had that experience.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: Imagine you were to go back to corporate, okay, yeah, yeah, and uh uh you want to do this outsourcing and you become a delivery manager again.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: What are the things that you will not do uh there?
46:47
SPEAKER_02: And what are the things that you learned in the social enterprise that you will go and get done in that corporate job?
46:54
SPEAKER_03: Very different question, actually.
46:56
SPEAKER_03: Okay, um, nobody has asking, you're making me think.
47:02
SPEAKER_03: So um I think uh one important thing, right?
47:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, I will say habits, right?
47:08
SPEAKER_03: So all of us habits are the most important thing, whether you like it or not, over some time you have developed some kind of an um comfort zone, right?
47:17
SPEAKER_03: As a uh uh you know, corporate service provider as a project management delivery manager, you are set to uh rely too much on the process, or you are set to uh rely too much on what your boss is.
47:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh, your risk-taking ability to serve the customer is actually less, right?
47:37
SPEAKER_03: So uh, but when you when you uh work with the customer straight away, uh I think these are something where customer will see value, right?
47:46
SPEAKER_03: These uh you know risk taking where uh apply your mind and then take risk and we which might be you know solving problem, not from the standard pattern what has been already set out for, right?
47:59
SPEAKER_03: So those are the things I will I will go and do adding value both to my uh corporate and also for the you know customer.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Why calvi 40?
48:07
SPEAKER_02: What's the uh you know what's the mission behind Kalvi 40?
48:11
SPEAKER_03: When I started our discussion, I think you asked a very important question in terms of education, reach, and what are what how parents are you know set up and all that.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: So I always believe that education is the power, right?
48:23
SPEAKER_03: You know what we've all got.
48:25
SPEAKER_03: In Tirukural, which is the you know uh uh you know iconic uh you know Tamil literature, Sangam literature written by Thir Thiruvalver, and there is a chapter called 40th chapter, and 40th chapter talks about the most important wealth anybody can possess is education, right?
48:42
SPEAKER_03: Kalvi, and that is what talks about in the 40th chapter.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: So that way we were inspired that uh you know 2000 years old uh you know literature which talks about education, which is you know the most important, the only wealth which you know people cannot take from you, and the most important wealth we want to give that power to the rural, right?
49:01
SPEAKER_03: Enable them through rural, and uh that's the inspiration like Kalvi 40, uh you know, chapter number 40 of Kirikural we kept it.
49:08
SPEAKER_03: And uh, I think a lot of people uh you know, when they hear the brand name, you know, across the globe, they they feel you know feel very emotional and very just connect because of the name itself.
49:18
SPEAKER_03: So I think thankfully it is it is not many of these things are you know not you know, Prayma has not done all this.
49:24
SPEAKER_03: So I think um one Mr.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, Dr.
49:27
SPEAKER_03: Rukram Srinimasan, you know, who has been fighting with me that you know I'm not keeping a brand name for my project, and he gave this name a very beautiful, thankful to him.
49:36
SPEAKER_03: That is our kid.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Contraminds is a podcast dedicated to decoding people, minds, strategy, and culture.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: We interview and learn from high performers so that you can apply these lessons on your journey to becoming the knowledge worker athlete you were meant to be.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: The Contraminds Podcast is available on all leading podcast players.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: And if you are interested in revisiting past episodes or taking a look at our show notes from this episode, please visit us at www.contraminds.com forward slash blog.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: And now back to the show.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: So what does the platform do?
50:17
SPEAKER_02: So talk to me about the platform and uh uh how does it drive three, four things that uh you know you talk about in education, which is curiosity, uh you know, habits, learning.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: So talk to me about the platform a bit.
50:33
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: I think when we started uh you know, when we had this uh uh paper in terms of idea and things like that, uh reaching the digital tech using technology, we need to enable the teachers and students.
50:45
SPEAKER_03: That was the the basic idea, right?
50:47
SPEAKER_03: And uh inside the classroom, we wanted this quality education.
50:50
SPEAKER_03: When when we say like you know, farmers, minimum support pricing, something like that, minimum uh you know support learning kind of a thing.
50:57
SPEAKER_03: Every classroom, every village should have Kalvinakur inside their classroom at the minimum quality.
51:02
SPEAKER_03: So that is the you know the vision which we with we started, and uh when we started, we understood that you know only uh you know uh 30 30 percent 35 percentage of uh people had access to Android mobile phone.
51:17
SPEAKER_03: It was 2018.
51:18
SPEAKER_03: We did a small survey and understood.
51:20
SPEAKER_03: So we said whatever we developed, we developed in Android.
51:23
SPEAKER_03: When I developed also, we were very clear that we wanted to give some kind of a personal learning, and that is where in the personal learning space we said we've developed an app instead of a you know portal or a website, something like that.
51:36
SPEAKER_03: So uh app and we developed an Android app which will come in Play Store, and we decided that there should not be any uh you know advertisement, no commercial, it's a lifetime, it is a free thing.
51:48
SPEAKER_03: What we wanted to do.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh and then uh when we develop, there are six uh important things we wanted to do.
51:54
SPEAKER_03: Number one, uh lightweight videos, right?
51:57
SPEAKER_03: Lightweight videos, even if the network is like two to three MVPS, it should stream without any issue.
52:04
SPEAKER_03: But I think one of the you know problem statements which I didn't tell you is like uh we we were focusing to uh develop the base third standard, eighth standard, and uh develop a last venture, right?
52:17
SPEAKER_03: So when we do that, we understood that that particular customer, the attention span is going to be very less.
52:23
SPEAKER_03: So I cannot put a video which is like 20 minutes, 30 minutes, giving a big lecture, he will not listen.
52:28
SPEAKER_03: So we said anything we do, it is going to be three minute, it is going to be a three-minute video.
52:33
SPEAKER_03: So uh three minute video, two purpose.
52:36
SPEAKER_03: One attention span he can listen.
52:38
SPEAKER_03: Number two, it is three minutes is like lightweight video.
52:41
SPEAKER_03: Even today, 90% of my videos are like the size of the video itself is like seven MV size.
52:47
SPEAKER_03: So these two things help.
52:48
SPEAKER_03: So number one, lightweight video, number two, uh, and uh number two is like online test.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: So without the help of a teacher and uh parent, we want them to students to go and you know play.
53:01
SPEAKER_03: It is like a you know, go and you know, make mistake, allow him to make mistake.
53:05
SPEAKER_03: I think that is the most important thing.
53:07
SPEAKER_03: I I will tell teachers that you know when I uh student come and you know makes mistake, you will get emotional, but mission does not get emotional.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: Any number of times he can go and make mistakes.
53:17
SPEAKER_03: So, number two, we call it as PyChi theory, which is like doing online test.
53:21
SPEAKER_03: Number three, timer-based test.
53:23
SPEAKER_03: So, every after every chapter you take 10 questions and take test, make mistake, learn.
53:27
SPEAKER_03: So, the all these three are completely aligned with the basics, what they learn in inside their classroom, Tamanaru syllabus, term one, term two, term three.
53:36
SPEAKER_03: We you know did the same thing in a digital platform in a very interesting way.
53:41
SPEAKER_03: This is first part.
53:42
SPEAKER_03: Second part is like um uh the most important thing is like uh the education should be uh directed towards developing full personality.
53:51
SPEAKER_03: So, this is what you know UN report 1948 states, right?
53:55
SPEAKER_03: So, we wanted to develop you know the full personality.
53:58
SPEAKER_03: How do I do that?
53:59
SPEAKER_03: Three things we have done.
54:00
SPEAKER_03: Number one, uh, I I wanted to develop my own European experience when I came back.
54:06
SPEAKER_03: How do I make a you know habit of making these kids think on everyday basis?
54:11
SPEAKER_03: So uh there is in Tirukural uh in Tamil, there is something called Vidugade.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: So this is puzzle.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh, every day we give you a puzzle in in an audio format, and the answer will come only tomorrow.
54:23
SPEAKER_03: So this is one of those very popular categories what we have.
54:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh so this way, you know, every day he thinks.
54:29
SPEAKER_03: And number five, uh the parenting is very weak in rural, right?
54:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, you you can imagine compared to urban or educated parent, the parenting is very weak.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: So we said, every day I will tell you some stories and four to five minute audio stories, and then uh give you some moral at the end of the day.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: So this is uh end of the story.
54:49
SPEAKER_03: This is the fourth category, and the sixth is the most important thing.
54:52
SPEAKER_03: We call it as general topics, Pudu Talipal.
54:56
SPEAKER_03: This one is like uh assume you walk into the buffet and you tend to decide what you want to eat, and that is exactly uh you know we want to keep it.
55:07
SPEAKER_03: So today we have 20 different categories.
55:09
SPEAKER_03: Uh, example, you want to learn French and Spanish basics, it is available, English basics in a very professional European standard is available, Tamil basics available.
55:20
SPEAKER_03: You want to listen to science expert Arvind Gutta from Pune's Toys from Trash, uh you know, using a small uh uh you know plastic bottle and uh straw, you can do science experiment that is available.
55:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh uh using stamps, you can learn history.
55:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh uh in uh using music's basic, all these are available uh in in Gettle Topics as a free uh different series.
55:44
SPEAKER_03: This is just to uh we are not making people to become expert, but just to uh teach them something new uh to make their thinking big, come and explore.
55:54
SPEAKER_03: I think these are six different categories what we have as of today.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: So uh to do this, uh how many videos today uh do you have in the platform?
56:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh so I think uh so so thankful and grateful, I think, to the whole of Tamil community where we stand today.
56:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh, when I started, even to do the you know 10 video, 50 video used to be so tough because naturally, you know, coming from my own uh process and you know management things like that, I have my own review process, I have my own guidelines, I have my own checklist to cross through.
56:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh so it used to be very tough to cross that stage and get into the app.
56:40
SPEAKER_03: So when we started like that, but uh from zero today we have nearly 7,800 videos exclusively built for uh these children.
56:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh we have nearly 28,000 questions available.
56:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh we have nearly like 20 different categories of general topics.
56:57
SPEAKER_03: All this is possible uh only from the global volunteering.
57:00
SPEAKER_03: Tamil people across the globe have come together.
57:03
SPEAKER_03: The audio voice is given from somebody sitting across the globe, somebody from Fiji has given somebody from Qatar, somebody from New Zealand, somebody from US, Australia, Japan.
57:13
SPEAKER_03: And uh, so that is you know that's the beauty, and you know, you are wherever you are, and uh you come and you know join together and serving the rule, and that is the beauty of this journey, and you know that is what in short, you know, what we have in the app three of us.
57:33
SPEAKER_04: So, how many volunteers do you have?
57:36
SPEAKER_03: Volunteers almost like uh you know 600-700 volunteers we have across the globe.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh so when you have 600 volunteers, uh the challenge when you have people sitting in one office to get a project out is so difficult.
57:51
SPEAKER_02: So, how do you manage 600 volunteers globally?
57:54
SPEAKER_02: How do you do project management?
57:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I think uh uh COVID and also you know all this uh I know a lot of people have come together and help us.
58:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh, today uh, you know, um I don't know looking at these volumes, people might imagine I have a huge team, no, nothing like that.
58:12
SPEAKER_03: I have only you know 10 member full-time team, including the content development field implementation guys, everybody full-time 10 members, and then in contracting and IT, another 10 people, and then everything is volunteers.
58:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, so so we work on a you know completely remote model uh uh in this whole thing.
58:31
SPEAKER_03: When I say 10 member full-time team, this 10-member full-time team itself is like distributed across Tamil Nadu.
58:37
SPEAKER_03: Somebody is sitting in the down south, uh, two uh girls from uh Teni, you know, which is like down south, and they are like first time getting into job, and two people are doing phenomenal job from contracting, and somebody sitting in Bangalore, somebody in Chennai, somebody in Kadalur, somebody in Tirchi.
58:53
SPEAKER_03: So the whole team is distributed.
58:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, uh, so over some time it is uh you know we build this, but yeah, managing this even today, we are not effective.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, naturally coming from uh you know the systems background.
59:06
SPEAKER_03: I know for uh everything when we have right kind of technology uh and when we have you know so much of tools available today, uh we can be much more efficient.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: But today, because I don't have uh you know uh you know enough backing from finance point of view, I I don't invest in big tools.
59:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh even today we operate in the the the best of the best of the cheapest what is available in terms of the Excel drive, uh you know, so many of the free tools what we have and operate.
59:37
SPEAKER_03: So thankful I have like uh you know uh two coordinators to work with these volunteers.
59:42
SPEAKER_03: So predominantly the whole process is like uh uh volunteers, even though when we say you know 600, 700 volunteers, it is very difficult to retain volunteers and continuously make them productive.
59:53
SPEAKER_03: So uh you know it is like very, very cyclical, and sometimes somebody comes to some things like that.
59:58
SPEAKER_03: But uh uh the coordinators are the ones who will you know uh start from scratch.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh, we have the process from guideline, uh giving them sample uh and then reviewing the sample, testing them whether you you are really doing the standard what we are doing, and then when you cross over that, then we uh get you the actual job of doing this, and then after you deliver, we have a mechanism to review before it gets approved.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_03: The whole process.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_03: So we have a very thin team, uh, but I think over some time when right volunteers come in, uh they they completely understand and uh you know cut down our review process.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_02: That's always when a volunteer comes with a purpose to serve a community, process is not so important, but when purpose becomes important, process actually can take a back seat, right?
1:00:48
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_03: I think uh absolutely I think uh two very important things also when we also talked about delegation, right?
1:00:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh delegation, I think that the most difficult skill is delegation, right?
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: If you ask me to do something, I can do easily, but if you have to get it done from somebody is the most difficult thing, but uh as managers, that is the you know biggest art all all of us you know trying to you know uh improve you know every day and every week.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: But thankfully, I think one of the biggest differences when we come to non-profit like this, only passionate people will come to you work with you, right?
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: So uh when uh you know when when I work with Swami, I will say uh you know, so nice and all this, but when it comes to work, I will say when Swami is not delivering something right, I will say very, very straight that Swami, you have to correct your video or audio five times.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_03: And only if you are patient enough and if you are passionate about to do this, you will stay with me.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_03: And I I'm I'm I'm very very strict, uh, you know, that way saying that uh it is not that we are going for uh you know Kalvinapati, you are not doing for somebody.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_03: There is only one thing I tell everybody, whole team is like serving that last mile.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_03: Am I doing justice to that?
1:02:01
SPEAKER_03: Everything else is noise.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_03: So if if we are not convinced, only those passionate people will stick on and walk this job.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_03: It is not easy.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_03: Many people can come and tell that I wish to do even today.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_03: I have people I will also you know test when Swami tells I you know keeps telling that Swami is very interesting.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_03: I said, Swami, yes, next to your house in 10 kilometers there is a school.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_03: Can you go and visit today?
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: Tomorrow, I will give you checks like that and find out that you know how uh you know really passionate you are, and uh you know, people have proved that passion.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_03: When why I explained it so much is like when passionate people come and deliver, I think uh, and uh that is the best thing for uh you know uh somebody like me.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, you don't need to you know stay there and own anything, right?
1:02:46
SPEAKER_03: You uh today we have passionate stories, like two classical examples I want to tell as uh you know, uh, one as a volunteer, one as a you know employee.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: One um uh somebody with uh 54 years of age, he has worked in Indian Air Force for you know like 16 years, he has served in Abu Dhabi Airport for authority uh and as a project manager for nearly eight years.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_03: He he's in Trichy, he works as a volunteer.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_03: But uh believe me, as I told you, I was testing him saying that can you go to you know Karalu?
1:03:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, can you travel 60 kilometers uh you know tomorrow?
1:03:23
SPEAKER_03: We are doing something.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_03: He immediately picks up the bag and travels.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_03: And today he's one of those biggest inspiration.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_03: When I tell him that you know we are one of those very important corporate customers, and we are serving in that uh you know uh Virunagar and Arya Guru, and the whole week from Monday to Friday, you have to be stationed in Arya Guru.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_03: No question asked.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_03: He will you know go and stay there and deliver it.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_03: And the point is, he is much more better than you, and you know, his expertise level is much more better than you.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_03: So it is like you believe in people and you just enable them, you know, give them all that the basic finance and ask him to stay.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: Forget about all that, enable them and you stay out of the scene, and they will prove, and that is what passionate people about.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_03: So, number this is number one, number two, employees, right?
1:04:10
SPEAKER_03: Very, very difficult to retain employee today.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_03: In this world of where you know, competition to pay so much, and IT people are you know switching jobs, things like that.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_03: Imagine I'm you know paying one of the you know lowest.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, I would say I'm still I need smart people, and it job is so tough.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_03: It is not that you sit in your house and do online, no, nothing like that.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_03: I will when you come and join me for implementation.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_03: I tell them that in a week, uh, you know, two weeks back, we uh implemented in a district called Arielu.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_03: You not imagine in 20 schools to implement in the same district, uh, that person has traveled 900 kilometers within one district, 20 kilometers.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_03: So imagine you you know how many people will come and you know stay with you and do that job.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_03: And I'm not paying you know, one of the you know very small things salary and paying.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_03: And this guy is only 22 years old, and he says he came to some of our programs and he understood what we are doing, and he said, you know, it is not like a job itself you are doing, it is nothing, nothing like work.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_03: You people are like so passionate, so happy, and that that is what makes me come here and join.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, she's doing like he's he's a full-time employee and 22 years.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_03: So, I think two classical examples I have given you.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_03: So, I think a lot of volunteering stories, uh, you know, um audio preparation, somebody sitting in Melbourne, always looking at what is that I can do if I call her saying that I have a problem and I'm not able to solve this.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_03: Can you talk to you know uh an important resource here and solve this?
1:05:39
SPEAKER_03: She will be ready to pick up the phone.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm not paying anything.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_03: It is a volunteering job, but passion to come and serve, right?
1:05:46
SPEAKER_03: Action from people are always inspiring.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_03: And all I always feel so thankful.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_03: I think uh thank thankful to God, thankful to you know uh Tamil community and all these people when you know when uh there is nothing like.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_03: I can say that all this I have done.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_03: It is like people come and do, and uh like what you have done here.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, you come and you know give this opportunity and enable and take this to the right people and all that like that.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_03: So many people have come come forward to come and support.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_03: And the most important thing is like all these people have you know never wanted any kind of mileage, never even I I would have sent uh them any appreciation certificate.
1:06:25
SPEAKER_03: I've never even you know uh conducted a big meeting to show them uh something like that.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: Never, never even those are truly passionate people, don't need they need to come to the front and all that.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_03: And even after only three years, now we are sending it some kind of a digital certificate.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_03: But I think you know those are truly passionate people, and if you have a team like that, and uh you know when people see you and uh you know, team, I think I know that's that's how the miracle happens.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_02: I believe brilliant.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh I saw this thing about how almost 90% of the schools have still this cathode rate tube, CRT TVs, no, there are no LEDs, right?
1:07:02
SPEAKER_02: Are you saying that the old world TVs are actually there and they still these schools have these old world TVs?
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely, they are still there, and uh even now we are doing that.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_03: So I think before that, I think one of those important questions generally, you know, on this journey.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh we are all always you know when you know we tend to question ourselves and uh you know also have you know good intelligent leaders and advisors to question us.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh that way, you know, okay, digital content is ready, but uh you know we are serving those people who do not have access to handset, right?
1:07:35
SPEAKER_03: So, how do we serve them?
1:07:36
SPEAKER_03: So that was the question in 2020, and uh thankful to you know uh you know the NGO friend from Tirona, he said, Sir, even today a lot of schools have the old generation TV.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_03: We call it a CRT TV, and uh it will be lying like unused 10 years back.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_03: Somebody gave to that school, and that is left unused, and there is no other digital infrastructure.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_03: So we said uh when we wanted to uh you know make this digital content available inside the classroom, uh we don't want to spend uh donors' money uh unnecessary, also to be very optimal that way, right?
1:08:15
SPEAKER_03: So we also visited schools where LED TV were there, and uh you know somebody has spent 30, 35,000, but actually it was completely unused for two years and uh sponsored by rotary.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_03: And even somebody would have given given me remote saying that can you please help me you know put the battery inside the remote.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_03: So we used to be getting so upset that you know that particular 35,000 given by a sponsor is living, you know, uh unused.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_03: So that way we said first step is to give you something to you know bring the horse to the pawn and first of all make them taste for themselves.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_03: So that way we said low cost tension.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: So we said that is where we did some trials and RD and things like that, and we said this old generation uh uh CRT TV, we attached CRT uh Chromecasting device and then HTML adapters and then certain uh charges and all that.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_03: With that, what we did was like the digital content what is coming in teachers' mobile, the video, audio, the whole thing will get streamed into the TV.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_03: So this was something with a very minimal cost.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_03: So uh no, still last year it used to be like 5,000 rupees per school, including this product installation, visiting the school, everything a donor needs to just give us 5,000 rupees per school and we'll go and implement it.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, so uh if we used to go to every district, so almost like go to Kanyakamari, Thrivana, Thrivur, uh, north, south, central, every district, but you just pay 5000 rupees per school.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_03: We will go uh install that, give training to the teacher.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_03: That is the most important thing, even today, we are doing training the teachers to use technology in saying the classroom.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_03: So uh that is how you know we slowly started from zero today.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_03: We are nearly like 750 schools across 26 districts.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: We have given this experience.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, uh you have the CRT TV, you have this Chromecast, uh, and you are actually saying this these children don't have access to handsets.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, absolutely.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_03: Even today, uh uh two months back in two districts, we did a survey, and then um only like you know, 40 to 50 percent of the kids say when my mom and dad will come back home, they will give me for half an hour, or even some kids say in a week I will get only two hours time, right?
1:10:42
SPEAKER_03: Even today, and like uh you know, 40-50 percent say I don't have mobile phone.
1:10:47
SPEAKER_03: My dad uses button phone, right?
1:10:49
SPEAKER_03: So those are experiences even today.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_03: In two districts, we did a survey recently, like two months back.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_03: So then that is how it is.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_02: So uh they don't have access, and uh so so therefore, literally the teacher's phone is used to actually open the app, and then that's really how the children learn in these schools.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_02: So you change the model from downloading the app to actually downloading the teacher's app and uh broadcasting it in the CRT TV, and that's how the classes run, right?
1:11:17
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: So, what we want to do is it with that low cost, because if it is coming that TV, the 20 kids, 30 kids in a classroom can watch the digital content.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: So we teach you know uh Macs and science in a very simple visual format, the images, so they can you know visually understand things, and that is how it enables uh and uh you know the classroom becomes digital.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, uh if I uh I want to support this cause, and if some audience wants to support this cost, what you're saying is uh you can support a school and you can pay 5,000 rupees, and then uh you know you will then pick up the schools and then go implement it.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_02: And uh, do you also give some report back to the donor saying that so many schools have been converted, so many schools have been uh are regularly children are using it.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_02: So, do you do that?
1:12:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh so what's the method?
1:12:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think uh yes, absolutely.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_03: They can, you know, people can definitely you know sponsor.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_03: Uh so um we don't do for one single school at least as a cluster, because you know, we travel a lot and we very difficult to maintain things like so.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_03: At least five schools, if they can sponsor, we will go if they have preference in terms of I want a specific district, we go and do that, or we will go and understand in terms of uh you know what are the schools who will uh who are motivated enough to learn new things and use it.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_03: So we have you know the kind of intelligence we have.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_03: So those schools we will implement that and then we will give them pictures in terms of uh and every school when we visit uh sponsored by SWAMI, uh, you know, we have a sticker and also we explain train and we give them the video of uh uh the teacher after the experience, how what was the feedback?
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: So, all this we will share back to the donor.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: Um, so one another important thing is like we also have kind of an um URL where uh you know the schools uh you know what are the usage from the school point of view they can also see.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_03: So I know this is what we do for an individual user.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: We also have corporate user, but individual user definitely you know uh they can come and support, and this is what we do.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_02: How has been the support from corporate and what do you expect uh corporates and what kind of help do you think will uh help corporates uh you know adopt this, and therefore you'll be able to scale it faster.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_03: One of those very important things from an individual uh donors and uh this one-time installation visit what we are doing.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_03: I think one of the challenges what we see is like uh we are not able to frequently go back, right?
1:13:54
SPEAKER_03: After you know we install, we get to the village.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh with that cost, uh, you know, it is very difficult to go back, and you know, only through calls we do, and which are you know not getting very effective.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_03: So, what we design for corporate is like um we wanted them to uh you know stay there for a one-year program, not like a one-time.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_03: So, uh, you know, what we have done and now we work with uh you know one of those important projects.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_03: What we are currently working on is with uh Ramko Siemens.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_03: They have factories in two districts, so we are doing in uh Aryalur and Girudinag.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_03: So we have identified 35 schools, and in each of these 35 schools, we give them a premium solution.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_03: We give them an uh 40-inch LED TV, and in that 40-inch LED TV, uh we pre-install Kalvi Nampadev, Kalvi 40, uh, like a Netflix or Amazon, something like that.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_03: So app comes pre-installed and the whole classroom becomes digital.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_03: So that's a one-time setup, and after that, we have dedicated resources to travel there every month.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh, understand, you know, what are the gaps.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_03: We do a baseline assessment for these schools, understand what is that uh gap at a at a student level in the school, and we run this one-year program.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_03: And after one-year program, we conduct uh another post-assessment to see what are the improvements we have done.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_03: So, this is what we do for corporate as a premium.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_03: So, this way uh you know uh over some time we travel and see that the change is happening, even when corporate comes in.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_03: I I you know always tell them that it is not that uh you know, six months, one year we can do magic.
1:15:32
SPEAKER_03: We want corporates to come and travel with us, believe in us, you know, travel with these.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, it can be 10 schools, 20 schools, but it can be a multi-year project, and we can do phenomenal changes with that focused attempt.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_03: And that is that is how we are doing.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_03: Now we are trying to approach more corporates to come and support us.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_03: Thankfully, you know, classical example like uh Rampo Simons, like uh not just corporate funding, uh, they work like an you know uh you know, extended team, you know, they work like almost like Kalvi 40 team, uh they travel with us, they come and visit us, they understand the problem, uh, and they enable us with the difficulty.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_03: They go and you know, uh, if we have a meeting, uh we have the meeting with the collector office, with uh you know, assembling all those teachers.
1:16:18
SPEAKER_03: So all the practical difficulties within the district also, you know, they will come and support us, which is like I mean not expecting from every corporate, but when we do that, uh you know, you have a sense of you know real uh change happening, you are part of the change, right?
1:16:33
SPEAKER_03: We want every corporate to come together and travel with us, understand what we are doing, and see the change, take the credit.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_03: You know, you have enabled us and you have served those 35 schools, and which is like you know, otherwise impossible if you have not come and sponsored.
1:16:48
SPEAKER_03: There is no way those kids are at the last mile happy to look at this video.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_03: So I think that is how we want more and more corporates to come in, and we want to see this kind of one-year, two-year program coming up.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_03: And you know, we have been trying, and we want all those kind, uh, you know, genuine people to come and support and work with us.
1:17:06
SPEAKER_02: I want to focus on uh you know, uh this whole you said the kid as a customer, right?
1:17:12
SPEAKER_02: Therefore, uh now that you have uh you know implemented this in many schools, tell me some small success stories of how these kids have transformed and uh talk to me.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_02: That's the final outcome because uh that's really what I think uh is the most happiest thing, right?
1:17:31
SPEAKER_02: So, therefore, tell us some examples and stories.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, good.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_03: So I think one of those uh you know, the beauty of technology and especially applying in nonprofit space.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I think that is the biggest taste, you know, uh thankfully I've got, I would say.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_03: Because generally, in a non-profit organization, you tend to serve where you see the recipient, right?
1:17:51
SPEAKER_03: It can be like giving food or you know, having a running an orphanage, things like that.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_03: The beauty of technology is like uh, and that is the biggest taste.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_03: You know, uh three months back, I get a video from a district called Kalakurchi, which is one of those, you know, the backward districts uh educationally in Tamil Nadu.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_03: One kid uh uh sends a video and that is shot uh from by his mom, and actually he is trying to learn French.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_03: He's telling me that grazias means thank you, and uh, what is for good morning, things like that.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_03: He comes and you know talks through his video and censors that video.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that is something the biggest motivation what we'll get.
1:18:33
SPEAKER_03: So that is number one because language learning, right?
1:18:36
SPEAKER_03: The most important thing is about practice, it is not about I know theory, no.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_03: So I was we were so happy that we have made him to attempt and experience that.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_03: So using technology, I do not know who he is, but he is sending us this video.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_03: This is one.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_03: During COVID time, we have been just promoting and uh you know trying to share and all that.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_03: And after that, uh you know, uh one media channel was you know shooting in Koyamba Thur.
1:18:59
SPEAKER_03: One girl, she was like an eighth-standard girl, comes and tells a story that uh last one year I used to be you know not coming to school, I felt very aloof and all that, but I had a companion and uh that is Kalvi 40.
1:19:11
SPEAKER_03: I used to be learning English every day from Kalvi 40, so that is something you know what is something, and we do not know she has been using for one year and having this kind of an experience, right?
1:19:21
SPEAKER_03: Apart from the numbers, I want uh you know people to every day spend 15 minutes, half an hour over sometime developing habit.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_03: So we also monitor this, and when when we have a program, and if you give me evidence every day, I will send you a certificate, digital certificate, and uh sometime uh full full month if you do, I give you a physical certificate.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_03: So that is something where when we uh give this physical certificate, it's like we send to different districts.
1:19:50
SPEAKER_03: So somebody from Chankalpath, somebody from uh Tirnal Vedi, which is like 500-600 kilometers and all, we send it through post.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_03: But moment you see that happiness where in that rural village, generally rural culture, is like you don't get to appreciate uh kids that easily.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_03: So when you give the certificate in post, and that HM will call the kid in the assembly and give you that certificate, and she will send you a picture of that, and those are the you know, uh beautiful experiences what we have.
1:20:22
SPEAKER_03: And teachers always come and tell that in single teacher school, like uh Sarah, I think it is like almost like an additional teacher you have given me, right?
1:20:30
SPEAKER_03: The technology is like one one where uh they tend to play the video in one classroom while they are attending the other class, and that is how you know some uh teachers have been managing, and uh, you can see a variety of that positive words uh you know, continuously in play store.
1:20:46
SPEAKER_03: We have got like 4.8 out of five, and teachers give us you know very, very uh different all these experiences sharing in this.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_03: I think that is the only motivation, uh, only uh momentum, you know, what we get uh when we travel to these villages.
1:21:01
SPEAKER_03: And after all these challenges and pain, uh, when you get into these villages and go and get to see those innocent kids and uh get to work with them, the kind of happiness you know you get that last milestone when we reach and when they you know watch your videos uh and learn uh hearing to those stories, and uh, sometimes it's like simple things like origami videos we would output.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: But the teacher will tell you, sir, uh, you know, all those 20 kids uh did origami you know experiment uh with those papers, and then they'll be showing you, sir, this is duck and this is you know, using technology when we are going to touch those kids and make them experience not just theory, but make them experience all this or something phenomenal.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_03: And someday I'm sure you know, 10 20 years, and I'm sure I know we do we'll do much more, but I think definitely those are someday when when there's a some kind of a spark we want to give them that's confidence that you know you you will become educated and you will never miss that.
1:21:59
SPEAKER_03: And uh though those are the you know beautiful stories we tend to hear, and uh randomly, and somebody gives you voice, and which is like one day we were running a summer camp online.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_03: We we make kids to tell stories, we will not tell story.
1:22:14
SPEAKER_03: We will tell, for example, we'll say uh Swami, uh, we'll give you one uh carrot, we'll give you onion.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_03: You have to tell story only with these two characters, so they will tell you some creative stories, and uh you know, during this experience, after 30 days, one parent will give you some emotional audio, and she comes and tells me that, sir, in this COVID last one and a half years, my son never even sits in a single place, but I don't know what you did last four weeks.
1:22:45
SPEAKER_03: Every day he's sitting from 10 to 12 o'clock listening to you and telling such kind of a story.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_03: I do not know whether my son has this kind of you know storytelling abilities, and I think those are the you know beautiful stories to enable them and see them, those creative things, and I think these are some uh sample uh very very positive stories, you know, which which keeps us going.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
1:23:10
SPEAKER_02: So uh so today you are in about uh uh 650 schools, is what you said, right?
1:23:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 750 uh schools and 20.
1:23:21
SPEAKER_02: And how many children do you think uh lives you would have uh you know attached?
1:23:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, in this uh you know, two ways, one is like using mobile app as a student.
1:23:32
SPEAKER_03: There are like you know, students at least uh 30,000 30,000 kids using that.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_03: Apart from this, somebody who can walk into the common school and watch Kalvin up today, another 40-50,000 kids can you know get this experience.
1:23:47
SPEAKER_02: So close to about uh so when we started, you said you got about 2.7 million kids who you wanted to influence and uh transform their lives, and you have touched about uh one lakh kids today.
1:23:59
SPEAKER_02: In one of the interviews that I was watching, you said this whole culture of effort and outcome.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we are so used to it.
1:24:08
SPEAKER_02: So uh we have to you know get away from that, okay, especially when you're doing a social enterprise.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and maybe uh you know, uh even in your corporate life, you have to change this uh thing.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_02: So talk to me about it because you I think it's a very, very important point.
1:24:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh I think you talked about uh you know unlearning, right?
1:24:28
SPEAKER_03: I think one of those very important things.
1:24:30
SPEAKER_03: I also said I think over some time it is not that uh you know anything the way Swami will think, the way brain will think, it is only that over uh experience of 10-20 years, you have been you know carved out over years.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_03: So, like that, coming from corporate, anything and everything, whether to give Swami time, whether to uh you know uh talk to him, everything we uh look at what is that I'm going to get in return, right?
1:24:55
SPEAKER_03: That's an ROI, whether I should do or not.
1:24:57
SPEAKER_03: So that kind of an habit I've developed over some time, right?
1:25:01
SPEAKER_03: So when you come here to do social work also, you tend to apply initially, you know, do the same thing of will I get outcome, and you know then I realize that actually you know it is a social cause, and you know you need to really unlearn that and uh not look at any any single thing like you know, immediately will I uh get outcome?
1:25:23
SPEAKER_03: Will I uh you know, uh, will he going to be of use?
1:25:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, will this four of us know nothing like that?
1:25:29
SPEAKER_03: So I think that is something what I've unlearned, I would say.
1:25:32
SPEAKER_03: Today, when you know people uh are really passionate when when we come to you know talk to us, we I I I we tend to explain and connect with them in the same way.
1:25:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh invariably, of you know, somebody might be a minister, somebody might be you know uh you know and next house not having any power or not in you know big questions, but still uh when you are having that passion and when when you have that uh you know the ability to serve, it is that only then you need people to walk with you and try to serve.
1:26:03
SPEAKER_03: So you don't need to always apply that parameter of uh you know return and uh things like that.
1:26:09
SPEAKER_03: So it is only that effort you and me can do.
1:26:12
SPEAKER_03: Outcome is not in your hand, so you don't need to worry about it.
1:26:15
SPEAKER_03: Talking to somebody also, even from a you know a funding point of view, even from an implementation point of view, we tend to explain.
1:26:22
SPEAKER_03: But even after spending one hour, we have done justice, but after one hour, uh you know she would have never come back to us, it would have been a complete waste of effort.
1:26:31
SPEAKER_03: But that doesn't matter.
1:26:33
SPEAKER_03: I think it is not.
1:26:34
SPEAKER_03: I religiously did my job of you know uh doing that with passion and explaining that someday it will come, and even if he comes and one single kid is going to get benefited, I think then we have achieved.
1:26:48
SPEAKER_03: So uh we are now uh slowly moving away from the outcome base.
1:26:53
SPEAKER_03: It is social work, and just do with passion and uh you know be kind and uh you know do this.
1:26:59
SPEAKER_03: That's all.
1:26:59
SPEAKER_03: I think uh don't worry too much about outcome, and that is what these three years have really taught me.
1:27:05
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, always when you do this, the kind people uh come and uh you know uh come to you automatically, and that is all you know, it's lovely, lovely.
1:27:13
SPEAKER_02: So, Pray, the last question that I have is India is a very diverse country, right?
1:27:17
SPEAKER_02: You're transforming just one state, uh, one language, one community in terms of Tamil community.
1:27:25
SPEAKER_02: There are so many languages in India, so many children.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh how are you seeing Kalvi 40 uh you know going to other states?
1:27:34
SPEAKER_02: If you have built a platform, I think you can take that platform to multiple languages.
1:27:38
SPEAKER_02: So, do you have that dream?
1:27:40
SPEAKER_03: I think uh many of my friends, you know, last two, three years have been questioning.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh, somebody will tell me, you know, you know, working in bankruptcy that you know, you are looking at Tamil Nadu as a scenario and telling me the scenario you come to many other states in the north and how tough it is, and how uh kids' situations are involved.
1:27:57
SPEAKER_03: And even my one of my advisors used to.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_03: Me that you know, come to Africa and come and tell me that you know how the situation are and when when are we taking there?
1:28:06
SPEAKER_03: We should not be in a hurry to just scale up.
1:28:08
SPEAKER_03: There is nothing like I'm I'm not in any pressure from uh investor or valuation or nothing like that.
1:28:14
SPEAKER_03: So, as an organization, as a team, we are convinced that this is really making that uh kids' life enabled to learn.
1:28:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh, we are continuously doing trials every quarter.
1:28:26
SPEAKER_03: We have new experiences.
1:28:27
SPEAKER_03: So, when we as an organization have the process, confidence, and clarity, we want to go and apply this template and give it to anybody for that matter.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_03: Come on, you go and apply.
1:28:36
SPEAKER_03: One of those very important things I think we tend to not give importance is the culture, right?
1:28:42
SPEAKER_03: Just because technology, I put it in English, is it like can somebody in Africa, somebody in Bihar, somebody in Tamil Nadu can learn?
1:28:49
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:28:50
SPEAKER_03: I think my own mother tongue when I learn, right?
1:28:53
SPEAKER_03: We want people to learn um with that in a in a deeper way so that that the original thinking comes up.
1:28:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh, when you learn in that, not just knowledge, not just kalikram, there is a culture involving that, right?
1:29:06
SPEAKER_03: How a teacher teaches in uh Andhra, how a teacher teaches in Bihar, how a teacher teaches in Tamil Nadu and Africa is going to be very, very different.
1:29:14
SPEAKER_03: And that is what today my whole set of volunteers are passionately doing that in Tamil, in a very simple way, what he understands.
1:29:23
SPEAKER_03: We know the culture, how we want to tell him with that cultural understanding.
1:29:27
SPEAKER_03: I tell him and teach him, and that is how so.
1:29:30
SPEAKER_03: I think that is something that is important.
1:29:32
SPEAKER_03: So when we have all this, we will come to that, but we have to be uh you know convinced, and we have all this process, and we will make it open source, and anybody can apply, anybody can upload, take it to your district.
1:29:44
SPEAKER_03: And um uh Kanye and Pungandrana says, Yadumore Yavru Keli.
1:29:50
SPEAKER_03: The whole it's a global village, and everybody is my kinan kint, and every kid I see is like my one kit, so we want to serve everybody that way.
1:29:59
SPEAKER_03: We will come to that uh religiously when we have you know that kind of a process and uh when we are convincing.
1:30:06
SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
1:30:07
SPEAKER_02: So, uh, on that note, uh, I want to ask you a couple of personal questions.
1:30:12
SPEAKER_02: Having earned as a delivery manager and now doing it as a social enterprise, uh, how do you manage the lifestyle and what how have you transformed yourself and how does your family support you?
1:30:25
SPEAKER_03: I think uh this is a very important question.
1:30:27
SPEAKER_03: I think most of my interviews, this is some being asked, uh, because a lot of I I tell people that um I'm I'm a very average guy, and uh you know, a lot of smart, smart people, talented people, uh, you know, uh need to come forward to support such kind of social cause.
1:30:44
SPEAKER_03: I think one of the toughest problems, right?
1:30:46
SPEAKER_03: We work on the toughest problem.
1:30:47
SPEAKER_03: So you need to be truly you know uh convinced that you know this is going to be the change.
1:30:52
SPEAKER_03: You need to accept that change, and there are going to be a lot of things you need to sacrifice, things like that.
1:30:57
SPEAKER_03: So my wife used to be always asking me that you know, when you used to be in Germany, you would be, you know, we uh you know we used to have a lot of vacations traveling to you know Switzerland, Italy, Lake Como, going to Austria, Paris.
1:31:09
SPEAKER_03: And today I'm traveling to Arielur, I'm going to uh you know Virginia, I'm going to Trivunam Lari.
1:31:14
SPEAKER_03: But I think uh it is about uh happiness is within, and then when you feel uh I'm I'm okay to travel in a bus and still be very happy about it.
1:31:22
SPEAKER_03: I will still travel in a very you know peak time, six o'clock, and travel with people, see how tough uh you know uh time they are traveling.
1:31:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm still very happy about it.
1:31:32
SPEAKER_03: No complaints.
1:31:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh that that is how you know once you are convinced, I think things will fall in place.
1:31:36
SPEAKER_03: But definitely uh the biggest sacrifice is my family, uh they you know, my you know, wife, kids, my parents, you know, they need to uh you know leave a lot of uh comforts and uh you know uh adjust to that.
1:31:52
SPEAKER_03: And uh I keep my needs to very limited as on date because naturally uh my earnings are you know uh extremely low with this kind of a deal.
1:32:02
SPEAKER_03: But I think happiness is within if you are clear about what you want to do, and uh then I think you will find a way, and when when we are doing it right for a right cause, I'm I'm sure we will sail through.
1:32:14
SPEAKER_03: Great.
1:32:15
SPEAKER_03: Uh so what does success mean to you, Pray?
1:32:18
SPEAKER_03: When you have uh understood what is what you are here to do, right?
1:32:23
SPEAKER_03: Each one of us has a calling.
1:32:24
SPEAKER_03: If you have something like as a true goal, you know, not for anybody else, uh, you know, end of your life, if you will be happy about you know, uh, you know, Swami has done this all this life, and are you happy about it?
1:32:36
SPEAKER_03: If you feel you have a goal like that, and uh invariably of the outcome, whether you have failed or succeeded, if you have the courage to attempt, I think that itself I feel is the success story.
1:32:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, life is all about experience all along when you take this direction.
1:32:53
SPEAKER_03: The beauty is only about the experience, life is an experience, and you tend to uh you know meet those experiences and enjoy this life.
1:33:01
SPEAKER_03: I think that is how I see uh that is how I see a success.
1:33:04
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
1:33:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh my next question is what's the best uh piece of advice you have ever got?
1:33:10
SPEAKER_03: Uh patience and perseverance, right?
1:33:12
SPEAKER_03: I think that is the most important thing.
1:33:14
SPEAKER_03: In this journey, I think every day you will be tested, and uh sometimes you feel very, very miserable after you know three years, like you have given all this, and somebody will ask you certain questions and certain scenarios will put you down saying that very, very fundamental things.
1:33:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh, just keep sailing with these two very, very important things.
1:33:34
SPEAKER_02: So, uh, what would be the one piece of advice you would give to somebody who is working in a corporate today?
1:33:42
SPEAKER_03: You have to have the courage to take risk and explore for yourself.
1:33:47
SPEAKER_03: Each one of us has answers within us.
1:33:51
SPEAKER_03: You need to find out what is that and try out, take risk and try out.
1:33:55
SPEAKER_03: I think you know that is the only thing what I generally feel that uh people tend to be in that comfort zone and not to get into uncomfortable zone.
1:34:05
SPEAKER_03: So uh just explore and you know have courage to get out and put yourself uncomfortable.
1:34:13
SPEAKER_03: I think you you will that that that is the only thing I have experienced.
1:34:16
SPEAKER_03: So one thing I'm telling, and then there's nothing like advice I can tell.
1:34:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm not an expert.
1:34:21
SPEAKER_02: So if you were to advise an 18-year-old in a college today, one thing that you would want them to do, what would it be?
1:34:29
SPEAKER_03: The world is changing.
1:34:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh we are all becoming um addicted to gadgets.
1:34:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think one important thing is like that uh personal relationship with people around.
1:34:45
SPEAKER_03: That is something uh invariably of money, technology, anything like that, lifelong, it is the happiness is going to come from those very important skills of how do I deal with a stranger, how do I deal with my wife, how do I deal with my family, uh, even at tough situations.
1:35:06
SPEAKER_03: So I think 18-year-old, uh, you know, yes, technology, all this is okay, but they need to give importance that that personal skills with people around, they need to give importance and learn that.
1:35:20
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful, beautiful.
1:35:21
SPEAKER_02: I have never heard somebody say the importance of personal relationships for a meeting.
1:35:27
SPEAKER_02: I think that's very interesting.
1:35:28
SPEAKER_02: If you were to uh you know have a dream dinner, who are the people who you want to be around in the table so that you will completely remember this as a lifelong dream of yours?
1:35:43
SPEAKER_03: Probably I'll pass this question.
1:35:44
SPEAKER_03: I think only thing I kind of straight away comes is like my dad is no more.
1:35:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, who has been the inspiration for me, who has built a strength for me, and uh you know where I stand today.
1:35:55
SPEAKER_03: I think you know he is the one, uh, you know, my mom and dad, you know, being there is the only thing.
1:36:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh what is one what is one thing that you believe in that uh others don't agree with you?
1:36:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think um empathy is what I deeply believe, right?
1:36:10
SPEAKER_03: I think uh that is the only thing when what what has uh you know uh given me this experience, everything I believe.
1:36:18
SPEAKER_03: Because when uh as an uh IT guy, uh you know, generally dealing with always missions or interaction with humans are very less.
1:36:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm not a doctor, I'm not a so generally uh the human uh touch is always less, but uh naturally I'm a person where I can just walk into the road, talk to any stranger like my brother.
1:36:38
SPEAKER_03: I can just openly talk.
1:36:40
SPEAKER_03: So one day like five years back when I uh went out, uh, you know, I used to see a person where he has like 20 cows, a milkman, and he had problems.
1:36:52
SPEAKER_03: And uh so one day I just walked in, had a very casual dialogue with him, understood what is the problem.
1:37:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, his cow died, and uh you know, because of a snake and things like that.
1:37:04
SPEAKER_03: Try to help him, give him some very basic things, and he said he's into debt.
1:37:09
SPEAKER_03: I gave him certain basic things, told him basic things.
1:37:12
SPEAKER_03: I didn't do anything, I just gave him some consulting as usual, giving some you know, verbal.
1:37:18
SPEAKER_03: But after three months, he told me that, sir, I had a debt of like 60,000 for the last two years.
1:37:25
SPEAKER_03: Now I'm done with the debt.
1:37:27
SPEAKER_03: So, what I experienced is like love all these people, uh, I know, uh empathize with them, uh, you know, uh the people around you, love them, and then uh they do not have that kind of a knowledge and they don't have that experience things like that.
1:37:42
SPEAKER_03: But when you get to them, they need help and come and uh you know the the life the world is beautiful.
1:37:48
SPEAKER_03: I think when you come and interact with them and they have uh uh you know difficulty, and all your education is given something is basically to give them, you know, empathy is very, very powerful.
1:37:57
SPEAKER_03: What I think probably we missed to you know, realize that importance I feel.
1:38:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I think when I tell people think, yeah, probably you know, giving a giant, but I don't tell people probably you know kind of disagree.
1:38:08
SPEAKER_03: But I think it's something.
1:38:10
SPEAKER_02: If I were to ask you, uh who would you uh recommend as guests for this podcast?
1:38:18
SPEAKER_02: Think of three, four names and suggest whom we should have a conversation.
1:38:23
SPEAKER_03: A couple of people comes comes to my mind.
1:38:25
SPEAKER_03: One of my um UN political leader, Mr.
1:38:29
SPEAKER_03: R.
1:38:29
SPEAKER_03: Kanan, you know, who's an um who has authored a couple of books uh and then uh he has been with uh uh U United Nations for almost like 30 years.
1:38:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh somebody phenomenal experience he has got a variety of experience.
1:38:44
SPEAKER_03: He's one of my mentors and number two um uh environmentalist, full-time environmentalist.
1:38:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh he's based in Kuambatu.
1:38:52
SPEAKER_03: He has sacrificed his life like 15-20 years, he has worked for environmental.
1:38:57
SPEAKER_03: And uh you know, somebody like him, Kovai Sadasiwam, he's a writer, he's like 16 books he has written.
1:39:02
SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh another person uh like um um Aribarasan, he did his engineering from uh Ana University, very famous institute in Tamil Nadu, uh top ranking university.
1:39:15
SPEAKER_03: He passed over in 2009.
1:39:17
SPEAKER_03: After that, completely 12 years, he has deep dwelled into visiting government schools and teaching them science, making them curious about science.
1:39:26
SPEAKER_03: He has touched nearly like a couple of lakhs of students, you know, he physically visits schools and but the problem is all these Kovesada, Sivam, uh, Arivaras and all these people are like when you work for the community for the society, society doesn't take care, society doesn't think of you, society doesn't think about what happens to you.
1:39:45
SPEAKER_03: So there are a lot of people like that, and uh you being very unique in terms of uh bringing these kind of uh you know thought process to public, putting spotlight on these people.
1:39:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm so thankful because not many would do that, and we remain in this uh you know hidden world of what we try to do, and we don't have time to go and look for spotlight, and we definitely do that.
1:40:09
SPEAKER_03: So when when you do something like that, these are some genuine people who are you know given their life for things.
1:40:15
SPEAKER_03: So I think these are some people you know immediately comes to my mind.
1:40:18
SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
1:40:19
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Brim.
1:40:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it was a conversation uh that touched my heart, made me visualize what goes through in these remote areas.
1:40:29
SPEAKER_02: The children's faces came to me.
1:40:31
SPEAKER_02: Work that you do without expecting anything in return.
1:40:34
SPEAKER_02: You are saying that this change will take a generation.
1:40:38
SPEAKER_02: Not many people have this, you know, it's very easy to have a long-term vision, but living a long-term vision every day in the short term is not easy.
1:40:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it transformed a lot of my own thoughts, and uh it was fantastic.
1:40:52
SPEAKER_03: Thanks a lot.
1:40:53
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
1:40:54
SPEAKER_03: I think uh uh, thank you so much for this opportunity.
1:40:58
SPEAKER_03: First of all, uh Swami and uh you know uh Contra Minds.
1:41:02
SPEAKER_03: A lot of very important questions, and where you know, a lot of interviews I've attended.
1:41:07
SPEAKER_03: Never people have asked me all these questions, and uh you made me think very interesting and not this level of depth people have gone and asked.
1:41:15
SPEAKER_03: So very happy and you know, I think uh very humbled to be here.
1:41:19
SPEAKER_03: I think uh so thankful for you know where we stand and all this beautiful opportunity and kind people watching here.
1:41:25
SPEAKER_03: I know always request for them to support wherever they are, some non-profit, give a hand and support.
1:41:31
SPEAKER_03: So, thank you so much.
1:41:32
SPEAKER_03: Thanks a lot, thanks a lot.
1:41:34
unknown: Thank you.
1:41:42
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to this episode.
1:41:44
SPEAKER_01: For selected links and detailed show notes, visit www.contramines.com slash blog.
1:41:52
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