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New 'Assault' Twist in Montauk Yacht Club Death Investigation · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: How does an incredibly wealthy 60-year-old investor go from drinking
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: $ 300 champagne on a luxury yacht to standing completely naked
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: on a dock?
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Just hurling sunscreen at passing boats with a young woman
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: lying totally unresponsive on his deck.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: It's just, yeah, it's a completely surreal scene.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It really is. Today, we are dissecting an unexplained, catastrophic
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: missing hour. were drawing extensively from a newly released broadcast
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: by the Law and Crime Network, which it unpacks this
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: staggering $ 50 million wrongful death summons, and that was filed
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: by the family of that young woman, 33-year-old rising fashion
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: designer Martha Nolan Osladara.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: This isn't some movie script about, like, East Coast glamour
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: going dark. I mean, this is real life. And a
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: sudden legal twist has just thrown a massive wrench into
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a mystery that has been deadlocked for a year now.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and before we get into all those bizarre details,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: because there are a lot of them, like the timeline anomalies,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: the panic on the dock, this really aggressive new legal
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: strategy we have to establish the firm boundaries of reality here,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: because it has been exactly one year since Martha died.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: The date was August 5th, 2025. And you have to
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: keep a crucial legal baseline in mind as we evaluate
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: all of this, which is that No one has been
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: charged with a crime in this case.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Right. Nobody.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: No one. That absolutely includes the owner of the yacht,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Christopher Dernan. So we are not playing judge or jury today.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: The goal of this deep dive is to pull apart
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: the fiercely competing narratives, you know, to look at the
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: glaring forensic anomalies that law enforcement is just really struggling
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: with right now.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, struggling is a good word for it.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And to understand the incredibly complex legal chess game detailed
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: in our source material.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm really glad you set those boundaries. Because for
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you listening right now, whether you're, I don't know, a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: student of legal strategy, wanting to understand how civil suits
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: are weaponized, or a true crime aficionado who just loves
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: dissecting a fractured timeline.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Or if you're just fascinated by the psychology of it all.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Exactly. The dark psychology of high stakes, ultra wealthy environments.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: This deep dive is going to explore... How a single
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: evening on the water leaves behind a tangled web of
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: completely unanswered questions. So let's start by looking at the protagonist, right,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: and the power dynamic at play here.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Because none of this happens in a vacuum. Right.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: You cannot comprehend how these two specific people ended up
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: alone on that boat without understanding the leverage one had
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: over the other. So let's look at Martha Nolan first.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Her trajectory is really compelling. I mean, Martha was 33
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: years old, an immigrant who moved from Ireland to New
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: York back in 2015.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And the sources make a really distinct, repeated point about
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: her fundamental character. Because, you know, it is very easy
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: for outside observers to glance at her social media footprint,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: which undeniably showcased a very high-flying, luxurious lifestyle, and just
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: make immediate assumptions about who she was.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. People see yachts and champagne and they
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: just assume she's a party girl. Exactly.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But she wasn't merely a socialite existing in that
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: world to have fun. She was actively trying to ponder it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: She was an incredibly hungry entrepreneur. In 2022, she founded
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: a swimwear brand called East by East, acting as both
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the founder and the creative director.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: And I want to dig into her business strategy for
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: a second because it tells you so much about her ambition.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: She wasn't just like relying on Instagram ads and trying
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to sell swimsuits out of a Brooklyn apartment.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: She was running physical pop-up shops in the Hamptons during
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the absolute peak of the summer season.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Which is huge.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's massive. If you know anything about retail real estate,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: you know that is not an accidental casual choice. That
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: is a highly calculated, extraordinarily expensive move to physically place
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: her brand and herself directly in front of an ultra-wealthy
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: elite crowd.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she knew exactly who she needed to reach.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: She really did. She wanted to turn East by East
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: into a global brand. She knew she needed heavy-hitting capital
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to make that leap, and she deliberately put herself in
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the exact geographic location where the people writing those checks
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: spend their weekends. Which introduces the other person on the yacht,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Christopher Dernan.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Right, Christopher Dernan. He's described as a 60-year-old fixture of
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: the Hamptons summer scene.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: A local heavyweight.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Definitely. He amassed a significant personal fortune by selling an
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: insurance company, and with that wealth, He acquired multiple boats
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: docked at a specific, exclusive Montauk Yacht Club.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Including the one where this all went down.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, including the one where this tragedy eventually occurred, a
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: yacht named Ripple. The sources also point out a really
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: tragic piece of context regarding his personal background, which is
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: that he is a widower. His wife reportedly took her
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: own life back in 2018.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we have this rising entrepreneur and this established, wealthy,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: local fixture. And their relationship isn't just, you know, passing
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: acquaintances at the marina. Dernan is an investor in her company.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: He's financially involved.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Very much so. He gave her $ 250, 000 for a 13%
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: stake in East by East. Now, I want to view
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: this through a very specific lens, right? Because this instantly
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: reminds me of the classic angel investor dynamic you see
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: out in Silicon Valley, but transplanted onto a luxury yacht
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: in Montauk.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: That's a great comparison.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Right. You have a young founder who needs cash and
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: an older established figure who provides it. But a quarter
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of a million dollars, while a massive sum to most people,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: is really just seed money if her goal is a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: global retail brand.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that money burns fast in fashion.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Exactly. She was inevitably going to need more. So, I mean,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: how does that looming financial dependency reshape the reality of
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: their relationship?
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Well, it creates a dynamic that is fraught with profoundly
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: blurred boundaries. When you have a young entrepreneur relying on
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the capital of a much older, significantly wealthier individual... The
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: traditional rigid guardrails of a professional relationship, they often just dissolve.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Right, because there's no HR department on a yacht.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Exactly. In a standard corporate setting, you have HR, you
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: have office hours, you have sterile boardrooms. But here, Martha
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: needed capital to fuel her life's ambition. Dernan held the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: keys to that capital. This inherently sets the stage for
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: a scenario where business and personal lives are forced to intersect.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And crucially... They are intersecting entirely on his turf.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a massive point. Like they aren't getting
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: coffee at a Starbucks in midtown Manhattan.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Precisely. They are meeting on his yacht in his world,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: surrounded entirely by the physical manifestations of his wealth and
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: his status. The psychological leverage in that scenario heavily, heavily
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: favors the person writing the checks.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: The power imbalance is just structural.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: It really is. And when an investor suggests a meeting
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: on a boat... The founder feels an immense pressure to
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: accommodate that request just to keep the financial lifeline open.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So let's follow that exact thread to the night in question, right?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: August 5th, 2025. We need to walk through the chronological
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: breakdown of this incident because the timeline anomalies are just glaring.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: They really are.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: The evening starts with what is officially described as an
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: evening cruise. Martha and Christopher lead the ripple out onto
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the water. The stated purpose of this excursion is to
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: watch the sunset and, you know, talk business.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: But there is a hyper-specific detail noted in the sources.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Dernan stocked the boat with bottles of Dom Perignon champagne.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: We are talking about an elite vintage that runs somewhere
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: between $ 200 and $ 300 a bottle.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that detail is scrutinized because it begins to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: frame the implicit expectations for the evening.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Well, if the purpose is strictly to review like quarter
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: three projections or discuss supply chain issues for a swimwear line,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Pupping a $ 300 bottle of champagne suggests a celebratory or
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: perhaps more intimate atmosphere than a standard financial review.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that feels like a date move, not a board
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: meeting move.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And this becomes a major point of contention later
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: when analyzing intent. But as they are out on the water,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: we get a digital footprint that provides really the only
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: truly objective timeline we have for the entire night.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Thank God for text messages.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Right. At 9.20 p.m., Martha receives a text in a
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: group chat from a friend. And it lands as a
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: chillingly prophetic joke in hindsight. The friend writes, It.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Just gives you a knot in your stomach just hearing it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I know. It's one of those completely innocent offhand comments
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: people make every day.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: That instantly turns into this dark, horrifying foreshadowing.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: It is extremely unsettling. But functionally, for the timeline, it
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: prompts a response. At 9.30 p.m., Martha replies to that
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: group chat. She types, Lol, I'm at the yacht club,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: now my phone is on.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Furthermore, the sources indicate she was also actively texting a
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: man her own age, whom she was in a romantic
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: relationship with at that time. So the investigative baseline is set, right?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: At 9.30 p.m., Martha is alive. She is responsive, she
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: is coherent, and she is communicating normally with the outside world.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: So if she is texting normally at 9.30 p.m., what
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: happens at 10.00? Because this is where we hit the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: black hole, the missing hour.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the missing hour.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: According to the timeline provided by Dernan's own lawyer to
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: New York Magazine, sometime between 1040 and 11.0 p.m., Martha
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: suddenly goes limp. The lawyer describes it as looking as
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: though she suffered a massive heart attack. Dernan allegedly springs
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: into action and begins administering CPR. Right. But the official
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: police report notes that the 911 call did not come
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: in until around midnight.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And that gap is just an investigative nightmare. If the
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: acute medical emergency begins between 10.30 and 11.00 PM, and
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the formal call for emergency services doesn't happen until midnight,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: you have up to an hour that is completely unaccounted for.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: A whole hour.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Yes. In any medical emergency, especially one resulting in a fatality,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: a delay of that magnitude demands a rigorous explanation.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Let's put this in the human terms for a second.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Have you ever taken a CPR certification class?
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I have, yeah, but the physical exertion required is tremendous.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly. You do chest compressions for like two solid minutes
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: on a plastic dummy in a classroom and you are exhausted.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: You're sweating.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Your arms feel like jelly.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Right. So the defense is suggesting a 60-year-old man performs
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: CPR in a state of sheer adrenaline-fueled panic, potentially for
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: an hour.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Without stopping to grab a cell phone to dial 911
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: because he supposedly lost track of time.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: That's the claim.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And the scene when he finally does seek help is bizarre.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is perhaps the most shocking visual from
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: all the source material. According to witnesses at the marina
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: who spoke to the New York Post, when Dernan is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: finally seen at the docks looking for help, he is
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: completely naked.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Completely naked.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: He is throwing bottles of sunscreen at neighboring boats to
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: wake people up, screaming, do something. Keep in mind, this
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: is a Monday night at a typically quiet yacht club.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: It paints a picture of absolute chaos.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: It really does. But I am really struggling with the
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: nakedness and the sunscreen detail. Durning claims, via his lawyer,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: that he removed his clothing because it was soaked in
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: her vomit during the resuscitation efforts. Does that explanation logically
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: hold water in a life or death panic situation? I mean,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: if you are desperately trying to save someone's life, Do
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you stop compressions to get undressed just because your shirt
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: is soiled?
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: It's hard to fathom.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: That feels like behavior indicative of someone trying to manage
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: a scene, not someone in a blind panic.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Well, if we analyze this through a behavioral and forensic
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: psychology lens, it is highly anomalous. However, defense attorneys are
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: incredibly adept at utilizing the psychological concept of acute trauma
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: to explain away totally irrational behavior.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So they blame the panic itself. Exactly. Exactly.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: The human brain, in a state of sheer overwhelming panic,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you know, the fight, flight, or freeze response, it often
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: completely abandons logic. The lawyer is essentially weaponizing the trauma
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: of the situation.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, so?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: They are pointing to the frantic administration of CPR, the
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: bodily fluids, the sheer terror of a young woman dying
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: unexpectedly on a boat, to explain both the nakedness and
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: that missing timeline. The defense's argument is that Dernan was
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: in such a dissociative state of panic that his perception
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: of time warped entirely.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Which accounts for the missing hour.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Right. And that removing soiled clothing was a primal, irrational
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: reaction born of extreme sensory stress. Now, whether an experienced
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: homicide investigator or grand jury believes that behavioral profile is
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: another matter entirely, but that is the architectural foundation of
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the defense being constructed.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: And that defense is being built right alongside a massive
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: public battle over the fundamental nature of their relationship. We
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: have the exact same set of facts. A sunset cruise,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: $ 300 champagne, a tragic death being interpreted in completely opposite
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: ways by the two camps.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It really depends on who you ask.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Let's look at the family stands first. For Martha's family,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: this was strictly, unequivocally, a business meeting. Period.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: No romance whatsoever.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: None. They point directly to the fact that she was
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: actively texting her actual boyfriend that very night. From their perspective...
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: If Dernan stocked the boat with Dom Perignon, it was
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: because he perceived it as a romantic encounter, not her.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Which brings a deeply unsettling layer to the power dynamic
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: we discussed earlier. If an investor is conflating a business
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: update with a romantic date, the pressure on the founder
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: becomes immense. And this friction leads to the evolving narrative
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: from the defense team, which honestly serves as a fascinating
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: case study in crisis PR and legal maneuvering.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, the PR spin was wild.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: It was. Initially, Dernan's lawyer gave an on-the-record statement to
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: New York Magazine explicitly claiming that the two of them
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: actually dated. The lawyer went so far as to state
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that Dernan loved her and had even traveled to meet
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: her family in Ireland.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: But the family immediately slammed the brakes on that.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Very quickly.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: They forcefully denied it to the press, saying it was
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a complete fabrication. As soon as they pushed back, the
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: lawyer entirely retreated.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: He did. The lawyer publicly walked back those initial definitive comments, clarifying...
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: We weren't boyfriend and girlfriend. And when journalists pressed him
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: on whether there was any history of physical intimacy, the
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: lawyer refused to comment, utilizing the phrase that he wanted to, quote,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: protect her memory.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Wow. That is such a loaded phrase.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: It really is. And if we look at the mechanics
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: of why a sophisticated legal team might initially float a
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: romance narrative, it fundamentally comes down to controlling the optics
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: of the crime scene.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. Right.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Think about it. If they were romantically involved, an evening
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: cruise alone on a yacht with expensive champagne looks entirely normal.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: It is just a date that ended in a tragic
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: medical anomaly.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: But if you strip the romance away.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly. If you remove the romance, and it is purely
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: a 60-year-old investor and a 33-year-old founder he holds financial
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: leverage over, the optics of that isolated situation become significantly darker.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Especially ending in her unexplained death, an hour-long gap in
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the timeline... And a naked man on a dock.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Right. Controlling the narrative of the relationship is a direct
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: attempt to control how law enforcement and the public contextualize
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the events of the entire evening.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: So how does law enforcement sort through this? I mean,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: we have to move from the PR spin to the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: hard science, right? The autopsies, the physical evidence, the forensics.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And this is where the diagnostic waters get incredibly muddy.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Very muddy.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Because the official autopsy conducted by the Suffolk County Medical
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Examiner came back inconclusive. There were no obvious glaring signs
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: of foul play, no manual strangulation marks, no blunt force
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: trauma to the skull.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Which is incredibly frustrating for investigators. An inconclusive finding means
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the state, at that specific moment, cannot definitively point to
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a primary mechanism of death. It just stalls everything. It
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: leaves the criminal investigation stranded in a holding pattern, because
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: without a defined cause of death, it is nearly impossible
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: for a prosecutor to draft a coherent charge.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: But then we get this incredibly strange detail about a
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: white powder.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Ah, yes, the powder.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Speculation arose in the media about a white powdery substance
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: found on the boat. But notably, the sources point out
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: this powder was found after the police had thoroughly processed
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and cleared the scene.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Right, the timing is key there.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And Dernan's lawyer has stated adamantly that this was not
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: an illegal narcotic, but rather fingerprint dust left behind by
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the police investigators themselves. OK, I have to stop you
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: here because this sounds completely absurd on its face.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: It does sound strange.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen fingerprint dust in a million procedurals.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: It's usually black or gray or like magnetic powder. Is
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: a seasoned detective walking onto a luxury yacht, seeing a
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: pile of white powder on a table and saying, ah, yes,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the fingerprint dust we just left here. Can it really
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: be confused that easily?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Well, visually to an untrained civilian eye returning to a
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: chaotic scene. A fine grayish-white powder on a dark surface
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: could certainly prompt wild speculation, but you raise a valid
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: point about investigative procedure. It is unlikely a detective would
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: confuse the two.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: What makes this detail strategically significant isn't just the powder itself.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: It's how the defense team uses the mere rumor of
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: drugs to intersect with the specific statement Dernan gave to detectives.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: He allegedly told investigators that Martha had excused herself twice
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: during the course of the evening.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Which introduces two entirely different realities.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Either she simply had to use the restroom, which is
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a normal human function, or as the defense seems to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: be subtly telegraphing, it could be indicative of someone stepping
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: away to use drugs in private.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Right, they are planting that seed.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: But her family and her close friends have pushed back
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: incredibly hard on that insinuation, stating unequivocally, that she was
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: not known to be a regular drug user.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And this profound disagreement over her lifestyle and habits leads
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: directly to the family's aggressive next step, which is ordering
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: an independent autopsy.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Right. The family decides they cannot rely on the county,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: so they hire their own medical examiner. The findings from
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the family's autopsy show that Martha was young, she was
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: physically healthy, and crucially, she had only trace amounts of
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: cocaine in her system.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Trace amounts.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Source material emphasizes that this was absolutely not a
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: volume that would trigger a fetal overdose. It was a
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: trace amount that could have been in her system for
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: days prior to her death. So toxicology does not explain
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: why a healthy 33-year-old woman suddenly went limp and died.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: This brings us to a really fascinating behind-the-scenes insight from
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Will Corman, the veteran criminal defense attorney featured in the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Law and Crime broadcast. He pulls back the curtain on
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the strategy and the psychology behind an independent autopsy.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: What did he say?
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: He points out that getting a second private autopsy almost
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: always stems from an absolute foundational mistrust of local law enforcement.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: That makes total sense.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: When a grieving family feels they are being stonewalled or
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: they fear the local authorities might be mishandling the investigation,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: whether they suspect sheer incompetence or worse, a bias toward
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: a wealthy, connected local yacht owner, they take matters into
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: their own hands.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Because they just want answers. Exactly.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And what it inevitably creates is a battle of
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the experts. You have different, highly credentialed medical professionals looking
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: at the exact same tissue samples, the exact same toxicology reports,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: and potentially coming to vastly different conclusions about the physiological
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: mechanism of death.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Which catapults us into the massive legal twist in this case.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: The reason we are talking about this exact event a
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: year later, the family drops a $ 50 million summons on
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Christopher Dernan, right? This is the document that essentially took
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: a crowbar to this stalled silent case. The family filed
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a summons formally notifying Dernan of an impending wrongful death lawsuit.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: And the language utilized in this document is incredibly interesting.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: aggressive and specific.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: He did not hold back.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Not at all. It explicitly accuses him of assault, quote,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: intentionally and wrongfully assaulted the descendant. And it also accuses
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: him of gross negligence and reckless wanting conduct. So here
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: is my massive hurdle with this. Okay. If both the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: official county medical examiner and the family's own independent autopsy
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: show absolutely no signs of strangulation, no broken bones, and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: no blunt force trauma, what on earth does the word
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: assault mean in this legal context?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It is the fulcrum of the entire civil case. In
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: a broad legal context, the term assault doesn't strictly require
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a bruised face or a fractured skull. However, the New
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: York Post cited sources claiming that the family's independent autopsy
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: did in fact uncover some kind of physical evidence suggesting
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: an assault contributed to her death.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Wait, really? What kind of evidence?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Well, the specific nature of that evidence remains shrouded in secrecy.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: It could be something microscopic in the soft tissue of
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: the neck indicating a unique form of asphyxiation that doesn't
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: leave traditional exterior bruising.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Or it could be a broader, novel legal interpretation of
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: his physical actions on the boat that night. But by
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: cementing the word assault into a formal legal summons, the
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: family is planting a massive flag. They are stating on
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: the public record that they possess evidence leading them to
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: believe a deliberate, harmful physical act occurred.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And then you have the sheer gravity of the number
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: attached to it. Fifty million dollars.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: It's a huge number.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: When you hear a number that astronomical, it almost sounds fictional.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a made up figure from a television
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: script designed just to grab headlines.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: It absolutely does, and Will Korman provided excellent structural context
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to temper how we react to that specific figure. He
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: explained that in many jurisdictions, when you file this initial
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: type of civil summons to initiate a lawsuit, you are
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: procedurally required by the court system to put a concrete
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: monetary figure on the intake form.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: So I want to make sure I understand this mechanics-wise.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: It's not like the family's lawyers sat down with an actuary,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: calculated exactly what her future lifetime earnings from the swimwear
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: brand would have been, factored in inflation and arrived at
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: 50 million. No, right. Or like they didn't somehow hack
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: into Durname's offshore bank accounts and decide he had exactly
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: 50 million in liquid assets to seize.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Not at all. Corman stresses that a number like 50
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: million shouldn't be read as a literal mathematical calculation of
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: her human worth, nor is it a precise reflection of
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: his personal net worth.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: It is a structural jurisdictional requirement of civil litigation. Courts
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: are tiered based on the amount of damages being sought.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: A $ 50 million figure is a mechanism meant to signify
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: the extreme severity of the loss, ensuring the case is
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: automatically heard in the highest appropriate tier of the civil
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: court system. It acts as a jurisdictional placeholder for immense damages.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: The public gets distracted by the zeros, but the focus
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: should remain on the core legal allegations of assault and negligence.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Let's unpack the strategy behind those allegations, because this leads
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: to the final most complex piece of this puzzle, right?
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: The discovery expedition and the high stakes legal chess being
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: played by both sides right now. It's fascinating. We have
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: an open, uncharged criminal investigation. The local police have not
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: closed the file. So why is the family jumping into
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: a civil court right now? If the police are still working,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: what is the offensive strategy of filing a lawsuit before
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: an arrest is even made?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: It is a classic aggressive legal maneuver often referred to
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: in the industry as a fishing expedition. Though in this
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: tragic context, information gathering is a much more respectful and
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: accurate term. Right.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Corman breaks the mechanics of this down brilliantly. Filing a
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: civil suit unlocks a uniquely powerful legal tool called discovery.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Discovery is the phase where you can legally force the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: opposing side to hand over their evidence.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: It goes much deeper than just asking for evidence. It
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: is court-mandated transparency. In a civil suit, the family or
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: lawyers gain subpoena power.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Which means they can compel things.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They can legally demand Dernan's comprehensive phone records. Think
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: back to that missing hour. Who did he call before
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: he started screaming for help on the docks at midnight?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Did he call a lawyer? A fixer? A friend? Right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: A civil subpoena can pull those exact cellular logs. They
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: can demand computer records. They might be able to access
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the underlying police field reports and the full unredacted county autopsy,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: allowing their private medical experts to compare it line by line.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: It's huge.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Most importantly, discovery allows them to force depositions. They can
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: put Dernan, the responding officers, and the marina witnesses under
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: oath on camera. and compel them to answer targeted questions.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And the risk for the defendant is different because the
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: burden of proof is fundamentally different in a civil court.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Significantly different. In a criminal homicide case, the state prosecutor
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Which is really hard.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: It's the highest possible burden in our legal system. You
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: have to convince 12 jurors unanimously. But in a civil
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: wrongful death suit, the burden of proof is merely a
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: preponderance of the evidence.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Meaning what exactly?
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: That essentially means proving that it is 51% likely, or
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: more likely than not, that the defendant is civilly liable
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: for the death. It is a drastically lower bar to clear,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: which makes a civil suit incredibly dangerous for a defendant,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: even if they beat criminal charges.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And that lower bar brings us to the negligence allegation
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: in the summons. The assault claim is the explosive headline
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that gets the media's attention. But the gross negligence charge
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: might actually be the more insidious strategic legal hook I
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: agree completely. Corman raised a truly fascinating hypothetical scenario in
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the broadcast that recontextualizes the whole night. He suggested that
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: even if there was absolutely no direct physical assault, even
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: if we remove the theory of violence from the equation,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: entirely way, Dernan still faces a massive legal vulnerability.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, massive.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Hypothetically, if recreational drugs were being used on that boat,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and Martha suffered a sudden medical emergency, and Dernan delayed
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: calling 911 because he wanted to hide the illegal drug use,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: or I don't know, clean up the scene to protect
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: his own reputation.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: That selfish delay itself could constitute fatal negligence.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: It is a very sharp, very pragmatic legal theory. The
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: law recognizes a concept called a duty of care. If
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: you are the owner of a vessel and someone experiences
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: a medical crisis on your boat and you breach your
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: duty of care by delaying life-saving medical intervention to protect yourself.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Just to clean up the boat.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And a medical expert testifies that this specific delay
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: contributed to the person's death that is actionable negligence in
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: a civil court. The family's lawyers don't have to prove
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: he strangled her. They just have to prove his selfish,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: panicked delay in calling 911 prevented paramedics from saving her life.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Wow. OK, so that is a formidable, multi-pronged offensive strategy
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: by the family. They are using the civil courts to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: force answers. But Dunnan has highly paid lawyers, too.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Very highly paid.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: How does his legal team respond to this incoming missile?
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: What is the defensive strategy when you are facing discovery
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: like this?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Well, the likely counter move is that the defense will
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: immediately file for a stay of execution because the criminal
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: investigation is still officially.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Whoa, hold on a second. Stay of execution. That sounds
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: like we're suddenly on death row here. You sure that's
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: the right term?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Ah, I appreciate the catch. In heightened legal drama parlance,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: it gets thrown around, but you are completely correct. Mechanically,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: in a civil court system, the proper turn is a
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: stay of proceedings.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: What that actually means is that Dernan's lawyer can march
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: into the civil court and say to the judge, He's
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: invoking the Fifth Amendment. Precisely. He is protecting his right
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: against self-incrimination. Therefore, the defense will formally ask the civil
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: judge to pause or stay the entire civil lawsuit until
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the criminal matter is definitively resolved.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Either by an arrest and trial or by the police
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: officially closing the file. And because criminal investigations involving complex
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: forensics can remain open indefinitely, that stay of proceedings could
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: freeze the family's civil suit for years.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I would think defense attorneys must hate fighting a two-front
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: war like this, right? They've got a massive civil suit
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: threatening bankruptcy on one side and a looming criminal investigation
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: threatening prison on the other. It sounds like a total nightmare.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: You would logically think so. But Corman shared a brilliant,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: counterintuitive insight into the mindset of a veteran defense attorney.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: He noted that defense attorneys actually love it when a
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: civil suit runs parallel to a potential criminal case.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: How is that possible? Where is the tactical advantage in
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: being sued for $ 50 million?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: It provides the defense with two major tactical weapons. First,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: it gives them an incredibly potent narrative argument for a
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: future criminal jury. If criminal charges are ever filed, the
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: defense attorney can point directly to the $ 50 million civil
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: suit and say to the jury, look at this. This
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: isn't a quest for justice. This is a quest for
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: a payday. The accusers are entirely motivated by money.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's clever.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Right. It allows the defense to impugn the underlying motives
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: of the family and the witnesses. Second, just as the
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: family uses civil discovery to hunt for information, the defense
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: can weaponize it in reverse.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: The defense team might gain early access to evidence, witness statements,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: or expert forensic reports through the civil discovery process that
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: the criminal prosecutors wouldn't normally be required to hand over
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: to them at that early stage. It serves as a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: backdoor mechanism to prevent the exact case being built against
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: their client.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: This is just an incredibly dizzying labyrinth of strategy to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: synthesize all of this for you listening. I mean, we
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: have a situation defined entirely by extremes.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Extreme wealth, extreme tragedy.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Exactly. We have two people navigating a massive systemic power imbalance.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a young, ambitious founder desperate for capital, and an older,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: wealthy investor holding the purse strings. We have a tragic
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: sudden death on an isolated luxury yacht surrounded by $ 300 champagne.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: The missing hour.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: We have a grueling, unaccounted-for hour in the timeline. We
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: have the chaotic, deeply bizarre scene of a naked man
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: pleading for help on the docks while claiming he lost
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: track of time. And now, exactly a year later, we
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: have a $ 50 million lawsuit acting as a legal crowbar
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: attempting to pry the truth loose from a stalled, silent
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: police investigation.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And the stark, uncomfortable reality is that the truth currently
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: exists entirely in a void. An entire year has passed.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: 365 days of agonizing waiting for the family, and this
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: remains an open investigation with no charges filed.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: It is a profound, real-world demonstration of how slowly the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: wheels of justice turn, or how completely they can grind
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: to an absolute halt, when you are presented with a
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: scenario featuring zero independent witnesses and physical evidence that is contested, compromised,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: or totally inconclusive. It has devolved into a battle of
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: competing narratives precisely because the objective facts themselves remain frustratingly
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: out of reach.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Which leaves us with this final thought. Something for you
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to ponder that we haven't directly discussed, but that hangs
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: like a shadow over this entire case. Consider the sheer
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: geographical isolation of a yacht out on the water.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: In our culture, a yacht represents the ultimate pinnacle of
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: luxury and status. But legally and practically, the moment it
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: leaves the dock, it becomes an island. It is utterly
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: disconnected from the rest of the world.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: No one can see what's happening.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: There are no security cameras. There are no neighbors looking
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: out their kitchen window. There are no random passersby walking
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: their dogs. When a tragedy strikes in spaces that are
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: specifically engineered to be exclusive, isolated, and intensely private, How
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: much harder does it become for society to pierce that
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: veil of wealth and find out what really happened in
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the dark? Thank you for joining us on this deep dive.