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Alex Murdaugh: Behavior of an Addict · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Hi, guys, Nancy Gray's here
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: at the courthouse here in College in County in South Carolina.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: It's actually Waterboro. Guys with me a longtime friend and colleague,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: doctor William Moroney. Now this guy not only wrote the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: book American Narken, he is a renowned medical examiner and
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: he is a toxicology expert. That's why you know, I've
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: got so many questions about the case, doctor Moroney. But
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: first let me tell you what happened. So we were
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: in court and they brought the defense brought on two
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: experts to counter the States experts. One was the pathologist.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: He was saying, no, no, no, that's the wrong trajectory.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Path He mostly agreed with everything the States said, except
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: for a little bit, like maybe one point about Maggie
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and one point about Paul Murdoch's death. Then they brought
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  Speaker 1: on a crime scene expert. But that's actually not what
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I'm want to talk about, doctor Moroney. When we broke
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: for the lunch break, I ran out in front of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the courthouse and did our normal Box Nation live program,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and we were waiting and waiting and waiting for court
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  Speaker 1: to resume. Dr Maroney. The weather here is like being
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: in Savannah, Georgia. It's beautiful. So I just took off
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and walked for about an hour around Waterboro, Doctor Moroney.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's a lovely little town. And the houses
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: are like I wouldn't call them ante bellum homes, but
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: they're beautiful, their period homes. The weather was almost hot,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it wasn't really hot, it wasn't really cold. It was
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  Speaker 1: like a warm bath, and it just everybody is friendly,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: like super friendly here, and it made me think about
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  Speaker 1: what all Murdog will be saying goodbye too if he's convicted. Well,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you lose a lot when you don't have insight and
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: you drift towards criminologically active behaviors. But that's because society
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: wants to isolate those people. And there's just so many
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: questions about his behavior, his past experience, his manipulations, his psyche.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Have you ever known a single drug addict that didn't lie,
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  Speaker 1: really be honest, a single drug addict that didn't lie, Well,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I would say, I don't use the word lie. I
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: would say that many of my patients lack insight and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: they are not valid historians. That's what I would say,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: but okay, they're not valid historians. Okay, that's screwed up.
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  Speaker 1: They lie. I don't know why they lie. Well, they
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: don't want people to find out about their habit, and
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: they lie to get the money or the habit. They
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: take money away from the family or whoever they love,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: or whoever's attached to them. They commit crimes to get
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the money because it's expensive. But I've got so many
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: questions for you. Number one, this guy, Alex Murdog was
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: completely lucid when police came to the home the knight
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: of the two murders. If he was up to fifty
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars a week in opioids, I mean, could he
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: have a tolerance love? Lie about the degree of addiction?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: It is not uncomfortable. I mean it is not uncommon.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: In many of the severe addiction cases that I have
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: been brought, people are taking sixty seventy eighty pills a day,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: almost one hundred pills a day. And I know, right,
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  Speaker 1: what did you just say? Eighty pills a day? How
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: can that be? Well, they have to take ten or
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  Speaker 1: fifteen to get out of bed, and they take another
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: ten or fifteen because these pills only last three four
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: or five hours. They don't last all day, so they're
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: dosing themselves six times a day. At wait a minute, okay,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: you said that a pill. Watch any saying oot oxycodon. Well,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: they come in and they'll call it oxyconton, but it
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: could be the generic oxycodone. It's it's a rapid um
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: it has a very short half life. Sometimes they chew
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: it too. They don't just swallow these. Okay. He said
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: that they can take sixty eight, sixty to eighty pills
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  Speaker 1: a day because they each pillow and lasts like three hours.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: They correct me if I'm wrong, there's twenty four hours
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  Speaker 1: in a day. Why do I need sixty pills to
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: get through one day? Moroni? Because you start getting withdrawal,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and when withdrawal hits, your body just gives off fluid,
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  Speaker 1: Your eyes water, your mouth salivates, you feel like you're
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  Speaker 1: gonna vomit, You can't hold your bowels, you have shortness
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  Speaker 1: of breath, and these are terrible feelings that with that
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: comes anxiety and really low blood pressure and you can't
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  Speaker 1: stand it. So you take more olpiates and then it
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  Speaker 1: calms you down. That's not how it starts. That's how
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it is two or three years later. Okay, how does
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  Speaker 1: this start? I want you to explain what I'm getting
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: in And how can he be on fifty grand of
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  Speaker 1: opioids a week, number one? And how can he be
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: so loosive when the scots show up? I mean he's
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: loosened on the nine one one call, He's loosened. When
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: the cops get there, he continues to be loosi We know,
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  Speaker 1: according to him, he had pills in his pocket, illegal
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  Speaker 1: peels when the cops were there, so he was probably
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: so high as a kind when he went in for
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the interview as well. Would that explain why he just
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: sat there with his legs crossed when they said, you're
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: a juble murder suspect. What we know, and it's different
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: than the stereotype, is that he may not be some
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: dude and have slow speech and slow thinking because his
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: body has become tolerant. But when the drug work on
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the long term process in his brains. There are two
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  Speaker 1: things that commit to this murder that come from the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: criminology of long term opiate use. The number one thing
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  Speaker 1: is a lack of insight. He knows nothing other than
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  Speaker 1: the current event the minute, what he's actually doing. And
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  Speaker 1: the second thing is in pulsivity. So those two professionally
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  Speaker 1: screened events in long term opiate use lead into criminal behavior.
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  Speaker 1: And it is the lack of insight that is moral
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  Speaker 1: and ethical consequences and long term planning and impulsivity. These
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  Speaker 1: are the two things that come when you rewire the
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  Speaker 1: brain that nobody can wait. They have to have what
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  Speaker 1: they have and they have to have it right now.
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  Speaker 1: That's the impulsivity and the lack of insight is there
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  Speaker 1: is normal moral compass, There is no anchor that is ethical,
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  Speaker 1: There is no he does not have the frontal lobe
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  Speaker 1: activity the higher power. That lack of insight comes from opiates,
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  Speaker 1: re wearing the brain in that pleasure circuit that he's
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: constantly seeking pleasure and to stay out of withdrawal prime
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, you said something that really shut me.
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  Speaker 1: It's almost like a child. They live in that moment,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that moment, and they don't think I had and they
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: don't think back. So at that moment and he allegedly
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: shot them dead, he wasn't thinking about the future. His
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  Speaker 1: law practice is beautiful little town where he lives, the
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  Speaker 1: courthouse where his dad and his grandfather's portraits are hanging
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  Speaker 1: in the hall, his law partners, nothing He's thinking about
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  Speaker 1: that moment, nothing else matters. But has that tie into
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  Speaker 1: the opioids with the addiction. When the brain is rewired
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  Speaker 1: for pleasure, you no longer have a long term plan
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  Speaker 1: for the future. And here's where I don't know this
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  Speaker 1: part of the law, so you can correct me and
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  Speaker 1: guide me. He may have picked up guns and seeing
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: an opportunity and decided to shoot his family members instead
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  Speaker 1: of planning a week ahead or a month ahead, because
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  Speaker 1: his brain was rewired in that immediate pleasure circuit for
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  Speaker 1: impulsivity that no normal person would ever demonstrate. And when
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: we bring people through the disease of addiction, then we
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: bring them back into society, we have to remind them
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  Speaker 1: that they have to rewire their brains to not be impulsive.
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  Speaker 1: That's part of the treatment, because part of you know,
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  Speaker 1: like any chronic disease, you have a list of symptoms
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  Speaker 1: in substance use disorder. When the brain is rewired, that
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  Speaker 1: impulsivity is something nobody can understand unless they've been through it. Now,
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  Speaker 1: I see it a thousand times a month in my patience,
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  Speaker 1: and I've seen it for twenty years. Well what about that,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not Maggie and Paul that each and together found
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  Speaker 1: is pillstash and had confronted him about it. Has the
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: prosecution said who was shot first? Yeah, Paul was shot first. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: in the end, he may have been angry and he
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  Speaker 1: shot Paul. And then he said, oh, yet what did
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  Speaker 1: I do? This is terrible and his impulsivity led to
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  Speaker 1: shooting his wife that he would have never done before,
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  Speaker 1: but he did it because of this lack of insight
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  Speaker 1: and impulsivity. Well, here's the fly in the opintment with
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: that theory. He lord Maggie too the hunting watch, which
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  Speaker 1: shows malice of forethought mens roah intent. He told her
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  Speaker 1: that he was worried about his father and mister Randolph
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  Speaker 1: passing away, and she say to others that's why she
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  Speaker 1: was going there, And she didn't really want to go,
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  Speaker 1: but she was going. And that says to me he
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  Speaker 1: planned this. So that complete theory. Well, it's it's not
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  Speaker 1: that it destroys it, but it also shows that his
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  Speaker 1: lack of insight reaches deep down into the moral aspect
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  Speaker 1: of killing another person. This is not his first rodeo,
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  Speaker 1: you know, he's probably been involved in traumatic deaths, so
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  Speaker 1: this was very easy, and that the impulsivity of killing
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  Speaker 1: her is something that straightforward. We see people who they
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  Speaker 1: look at somebody, they figure they have a wallet, They
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  Speaker 1: push them down, they go through their pockets, they take
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  Speaker 1: their money, They carjack people, they take keys, they're trying
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  Speaker 1: to rip people off, and all that comes impulsively because
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  Speaker 1: when their brain is rewired, they don't think there's any consequences.
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  Speaker 1: And he is in a situation where he has got
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  Speaker 1: himself out of consequences before. He had many times. And
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  Speaker 1: when you when you look at the amount of him
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  Speaker 1: not being held accountable and him not having consequences, and
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  Speaker 1: then you add some criminology on top of that, and
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  Speaker 1: then drug use and the lack of insightssivity. I thought
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  Speaker 1: for sure that there would be girlfriends and mistresses paraded
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: in front of the jury, always heard about and the
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  Speaker 1: jury has not heard about. It is an affair he
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  Speaker 1: had about ten or fifteen years ago, and Maggie was
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: still upset about it. I don't Blimer because you feel
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  Speaker 1: like you could never trust the person again. Let me
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: ask you this, does they is incredible? Ye said, Hope,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: he always what thank you that have on your sex drive,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I mean your sex drive or do you even just
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: become like a sex addict. The long term consequences of
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: opioids on the pituitary and testosterone is an imbalance that
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: leads towards lower sex drive and lower testosterone in men.
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  Speaker 1: Does that make yeah, explain why we haven't heard about
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  Speaker 1: a recent affair? Okay? Next question? Is it physically possible
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  Speaker 1: to take that many pills and not kill over dead?
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  Speaker 1: Oh and Jackie wants to know if Marlo was using
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  Speaker 1: that many drives? I know, weight loss. The weight loss
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  Speaker 1: is difficult. Um, there are some people that feel tremendous constipation,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and that constipation leads you to less of an appetite
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: because you have to have a system that allows you
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: to eat at one end and defecate it the other.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: That is patient specific. But what would be more important
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: is was he the wrong color? Was he pale? Did
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: he look ashen? Now? Didn't lose weight? But those are
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: signs of toxicity in the liver, which comes from all
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: of the things in those tablets. One of the things,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and I'm not purporting to say that any drug use IVU,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: snort use, smoking, or oral is better. But one of
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  Speaker 1: the reasons why long term drug users stop taking pills
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  Speaker 1: and go to injecting is they bypass the stomach and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: they get what they need because they bypass the stomach
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  Speaker 1: and they go straight IV. There's no reports of him
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  Speaker 1: injecting at any time, and he stayed with oral meads,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: which means he's taking a lot of calcium filler. He's
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: taking sucros, he's taking lactose, he's taking other binders, he's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: taking dies and all that stuff. It's toxic to the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: liver in the long term. It makes the liver work
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  Speaker 1: too hard, and then you don't make as much red
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  Speaker 1: blood cells, you don't make as much hemoglobin. Your chemistry's off,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and you look sick. You're the wrong color. He says
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  Speaker 1: his addiction is to quote opioid painkillers, specifically oxycodone and OxyContin.
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  Speaker 1: I can't take that many peals and live a sixty
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: day appeal oxy habit sixty pails a day. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't that calls emotional numbness severe depression, which you're all.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, because those pills are giving him his energy.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: He's getting they across the board. Oxycotton users have said
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: for fifteen years. Those pills gave me energy. There's something
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: about the OxyContin the oxycodone molecule that is different than
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of the other opioids. Sometimes we think that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: they're all the same. And you know, high doses of
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: morphine and heroin and opium they make you sleepy. Anybody
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that knows people who've been oxycotton users know that they're buzzed,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: they're wired. It's a total seven oxycodon pills a day. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and I would say, you know, if you're taking uh
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty of those of three or four times
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a day, that would that would keep you wired like
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that Physically, I am still function as a lawyer because
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it starts slow and it goes up to that dose
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: over a year or two. Yes, you can function at
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that level. Your body still functions. But when I tell
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you that you lose the insight, you no longer make
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the same moral decisions, and an impulsivity drives you to
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: criminal behavior that when you're sober, you would never go
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: in that direction. Time stories with Nancy Grace. That's awesome outburst,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: one that may have resulted in Maggie and Paul's martyrs.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, I know that pot makes you typically
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: sleepy and lethargic. Not everybody, but most people. Meth makes
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: you crazy, and you imagine monsters and you attack people
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: and chew their faces. Often just you imagine that bugs
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: are crawling all over your body and you lose your teeth.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean opioids. Could they cause an
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: emotional outburst that would end in the murders of two people?
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: All the opioids are different, They're not exactly the same.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: But we have known for twenty years that people who
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: use OxyContin excessively outside of the FDA approved range have
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: all said they got energy, they got a buzz. It
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: got them through the day. I had a very nice
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: lady that you would have never guessed that was in
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the stronghold of addiction. Look at me and say, if
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I take my OxyContin, I can work on the farm.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I get up at five o'clock and I go to work,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and I work till ten or eleven. Then at noon,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I go to work in the factory and I work
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: second shift. She held down two jobs as a farmer
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and as a factory worker, and at one point she
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: gave up the factory worker to become a roofer. These
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: are physically very hard jobs, and she said, I didn't
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: have any problem to do that when I got my oxyconton.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: When I got my oxycont I do everything. I didn't
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: do anything. I had energy all day and for twenty years.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That's one of the detrimental things in the opioid crisis.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Now a lot of people think, well, you know, they're
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: all the same. Oxyconton got people through the work at factories.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: It got older people pushing fifty and sixty to keep
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: up with the thirty year olds. That's why it was
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a crisis because sooner or later the government and the
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: states and the insurance cut all those people off, and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: now they feel those pains. I don't know that it
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: gives you the energy, but if it takes away your pain,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: then what you're doing you're able to function without pain.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: You start building up a tolerance, so where you used
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: to be able to take one pill three times a day,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: suddenly you need to. Then you need four, then you
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: need eight, and if you don't take that many, you
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: start going into withdrawal. Because let me understand this, opioids
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: bind to opioid receptors, and your brain and your spinal
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: cord and other parts of your bodies. Now, to me,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: a receptor is an object or an entity that receives,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: So always bind to your brain is final four and
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: other areas of your body. When there's opioid receptors are
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: full and they start emptying out and you have withdrawals,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: so you have to take more and more and more
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: to get that feeling of euphoria or pleasure. Right? Is
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that how it works? It is, And here's what ends
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: up happening. Let's say the number of receptors you have
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: in your brain that just get pain management, you know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: ten or twenty percent of your opioid receptors. Well, as
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the brain accommodates, it may lower those number of receptors
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't want too many. It's it's it's a reflex.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: It's called receptor down regulation. So then later on you
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: need more drug to fill more receptors, and the brain
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: lowers the number of receptors. You have to take more
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: to fill the same receptors. So they've been doing this
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: over a decade. Yes, absolutely. Now, let me understand when
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: you opioid addictions can trigger it's traite. It sounds like
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: a dementor have any of your children at Harry Potter.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: We went to Harry Potter parties. We have Harry Potter
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: ornaments on our Christians have Harry Potter. You'll have to
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: read the books. While the movies are wonderful, they're not
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the same as the books. I've read every single one
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: to the Twins, and you need to know what a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: dementor is. A dementor is something that comes to light,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: it flies up. It's dark, it really doesn't have a face,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: and it's like a dark ghost and it flies up,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: is in a group, and they suck all the joy
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: out of you and you're just left as a shell
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: of what you were before. You'd rather die. So my
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: point is, I think like a dementor, they trigger feelings
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: of intense sadness and hopelessness when you can't get your fits,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: so you know, to even keep your spirits that you
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: just have to keep taking it in order to get
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: any kind of happiness. That's a very good description and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: it's very visual, and people that have seen that in
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Harry Potter read about that, they can understand that, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: it almost matches word for word what people looking to
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: get out of the trap of opioids and to get
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: sober what they say because their normal emotions are gone
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and the more violence is it Like PCP or other
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: drugs that make you more project violence. They don't drive
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: you to violence like psychosis, but they would drive you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to violence with the fact that I'll return. Did you
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: have the lack of insight? There are other answers that
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: are non violent. So ye have no campulse control, you
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: have no insight. You're only living in that exact moment
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: like a child. And if someone threatens to take away
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: you're opius. It's like the devans are sucking the joy
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: out of you, and you'll do anything to avoid it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: That is almost exactly word for word what some people
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: have said to me when they come to me and
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: they say, I got to get off this stuff. If
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I don't, I'm gonna die or I'm gonna go to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: jail because I just don't feel right and I'm doing
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: things that I know are wrong, but I'm still doing them.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Dr Maroni's of course not a defense. But when I
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: look at him, it looks so pale, and especially around
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the times of the martyrs, his eyes just look out,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: there's nothing behind them. I tell people who start opioid
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: treatments with us to to opioid disorder treatments. I say,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: this doesn't change overnight, but you're going to have this
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: lack of insight, and you're going to have this impulsivity
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: that you want it now. And part of you going
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to therapy with the therapists is to learn to be
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: patient and slowly. Nobody's ever put a finger on the number,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: but in my clinic, I tell people when you're drug
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: free from the opiates and you're on our treatment and counseling,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: it takes about two years for you to get back
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the joy and the understanding and the impulse control counseling
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: every month. I just feel so bad for people that
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: are tangled up in drugs and they can't get out
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and they have no right real joy in their lives.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Doctor Moronie, I didn't mean to take all your time.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: It's just so good to talk to you, and you
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: make it so easy to understand. Guys with me, Doctor
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: William Maroney, my longtime friend, colleague, his most important title, however,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: his husband and dad to awesome children. Please send me
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: some more pictures, doctor Moroni. I will and you send
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: me or I will bye, buddy. Thanks man, bye friend,