Latest / Boots on the Ground / Fleur Hassan-Nahoum: Ofer Winter, Netanyahu & the Future of Israel ep 47

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Fleur Hassan-Nahoum: Ofer Winter, Netanyahu & the Future of Israel ep 47 · Boots on the Ground

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of Boots on the Ground, where we discuss Israel's wars, politics, and identity.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we are going to be focusing in on the politics, as I'm joined with our lovely guest here, Flair Hassan Nachum, the former Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem, and now the special envoy envoy for trade innovation from the Foreign Ministry.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: But more importantly, she's number five on the Amcha Israel list led by Ofra Winter.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Before we get into today's episode, I want to thank our partners here at that Jerusalem Media Group and our sponsors, BeTheirIsrael.com.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: For all your events in Israel, BeTheirIsrael.com provides live streaming services so all your families and friends around the world can join you virtually.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Now let's get into it.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Fleur, we have lots to talk about.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yes.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: So much.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about policy, we're going to talk about politics.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: We're going to get to all of it.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: I want to start.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: We have security, we have the Khari draft issue, economics, education, and most importantly, Aliyah.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: And then we'll get into the politics, yes, BB, no BB.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to start?
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, seeing as your show is called Boots on the Ground, why don't we start with the defense policy?
1:07
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's start with the defense policy.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Of our Winter, a former brigadier general, was the head of the 98th Division, was uh was a defense secretary.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: To four defense ministers.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: To four defense ministers.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: And the Prime Minister.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: And the Prime Minister.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: There we go.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: What's the policy on defense?
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Where do we stand on Asa, Lebanon, further afield with Iran, and how does that all tie together?
1:30
SPEAKER_01: What's his policy point?
1:32
SPEAKER_00: So his policy is basically getting back to basics, getting back to Bengurian defense doctrine.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, the doctrine of old, which meant you finish wars quickly.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: You don't drag them out because the country can't afford it.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Because we are an army that is based on reserve soldiers like you.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: And reserve soldiers also have a life, they have children, they have businesses.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not sustainable for the country to have long protracted wars when the majority of its soldiers are in fact reserve soldiers.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: And the first part of that is let's finish the war in Gaza.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Because at the moment there is a little cancer which is still there and it keeps growing every day, and that is Hamas.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: They're still in charge of the food, they're still in charge of the water, they still have authority in Gaza, they're still on their feet.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Why?
2:23
SPEAKER_00: We can destroy them.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: We are a thousand times stronger than them.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Why?
2:28
SPEAKER_00: And the problem really is that the the civilian population, they hide amongst them.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: So offer winter strategies to separate the civilian population from the Hamas terrorists.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: How do you do that?
2:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm no military expert, but I've heard him.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: We've discussed exactly that here on the show many times already.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I I'm sure that you have, because you guys are all uh soldiers.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm just a soldier of words.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Um it's it shouldn't be as complicated as people are making it out.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: You do a sterile area, you do a weapons-free zone, a little bit like what the GHA was was trying to do a couple of years ago.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And uh you close off that zone, you let people in without weapons, you become the sole provider of food and medicine and water and education, and the good people who actually want to get humanitarian aid can go there.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: And the bad people, the people with weapons who want to use their own civilians as human shields, they don't get in.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Now, once you do that, you take the authority away from Hamas, you take away their ability to steal the food, which they're doing every single day.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: They're selling the food on the open market, they don't care about their own people, and so we take their people away from them so that they don't have their people as a crutch to make money and as a human shield.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing you do.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: The second thing is you help the people who want to leave leave.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Now, the last time they were asked, 80% of them want to leave.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So why are they the only refugees from a war, by the way, a war they started?
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Why aren't they allowed to leave?
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Why?
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Why are we punishing them to stay there under Hamas military terrorist jihadi rule?
4:13
SPEAKER_00: When the Syrians had a civil war, they were allowed to leave, three or four million of them in Europe.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: When the Ukrainians, uh the when war was launched against Ukraine by Russia, there's seven million refugees.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Why are the Gazans the only people who have to be stuck in a war zone where everywhere else on earth uh people who are refugees have walk and run away?
4:32
SPEAKER_01: So you're suggesting that we create the reality for immigration that we encourage immigration.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: For those, yes, encourage, facilitate, for those who want to leave for a better life and don't want to stay under a jihadist fundamentalist regime.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Let let us help them leave.
4:48
unknown: Okay.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: And what about on our other fronts?
4:50
SPEAKER_01: The north, further east, the Houthis further south.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, another part of what's the bigger picture in the end of the day?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: So another part of Alpha Winter's doctrine is, and this was again, this was defense doctrine of old that we forgot about, that the concepts, the paradigm of believing or of not believing the enemies when they say they want to kill us.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: That's what took hold of the army, and you can probably speak better than me about this.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: But the point is that the buffer zone against an enemy can never be in your territory.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: It has to be in enemy territory.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: That's where we are right now in Southern Lebanon.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: We're not leaving until Hezbollah disappears.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: That might take a while.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: And we have to remain there until that happens.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now I know you from the Hasbar world.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: I know you from, like you said, you're you're a warrior of words.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: So I think the one thing that I find that was very that brought me to the campaign was that it seems to me there's a recognition that we don't fight in a vacuum.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: That no matter how much success I have on the battlefield, there needs to be someone who's mimicking that success, that success on the international front.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Or shielding a success.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: So where does where do you come in?
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Where does number two on the list, Youssef Khadad, who's one of Israel's greatest war warrior of words, who's also a warrior on the battlefield, but is now a warrior of words.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Where does how does that all fit together?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: So essentially the reason I joined this party was because Offa Winter is, as you said, is Brigadier General.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Offerwinter is the first army leader that I've ever met who truly understands that we're now fighting hybrid warfare.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: What does that mean, hybrid warfare?
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Fighting warfare on the battle on the battlefield, kinetic warfare, what you and your and your friends do hundreds of days already.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: But we're also fighting a battle against our leg our their attempts to delegitimize us.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: They know they can't beat us militarily.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: The entire world knows us.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: We're the second most strong army in the world.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: We have the best defense technology in the world.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: So they can't beat us militarily.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: So what can they do instead?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: They can isolate us diplomatically, they can delegitimize us, they can they can be hateful to our communities around the world, they can threaten the Jewish people.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: All of that they can do through a campaign very similar to Goebbels, that for four years before the final solution, maybe a bit longer than that, he basically put a radio in every single German's home.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: And he told them, the Germans, that all of their problems were due to the Jews.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: We have a similar situation, except that it's not a radio anymore.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: It's on everybody's pocket.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And there is a concerted campaign run by Qatar and the Iranians and other bad faith actors around the world to delegitimize Jews, to make anti-Semitism trendy, fashionable again, to have people who say that they believe in human rights to be constantly um preaching that the only people who don't deserve human rights are Jews.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the war we're facing.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And that war has incredibly wide consequences, economic consequences, diplomatic consequences, and we need to fight that war.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And off a winter brought in Yosef Khaddad to be the minister for public diplomacy, which I pray he will be very soon.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: And I will be there helping them both to fight that war of words.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, the simple question comes down then is how can tiny little Israel, with our already overextended budget, how can we really give a real fight to Qatar, Iran, you know, world powers economically with the oil, how can we really fight that battle where the Jewish people are a tiny minuscule amount of people in the world, and not even all of them support Israel?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: How can we actually fight that war in a way that we can win it?
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, we've always been outnumbered.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: We are of quality, not quantity.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: So in 1948, you could have said the same.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: How is a little country of ragtag Jews, half of them Holocaust survivors, gonna fend off five Arab armies?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And we did.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: 67, 73.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: We've always been outnumbered.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: But we have advantages.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: We're the people who invented Hollywood, for God's sake.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell me.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: We can't do storytelling.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell me, I don't buy it.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: We haven't even tried Ari.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: You know that.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: There's no infrastructure here.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: It's split into three little paltry solutions in four different ministries, not real budgets, no leadership, no strategy, no hierarchy.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: You're a soldier.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Imagine you go to the battlefront, which actually is what happened on October 7th.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: When was the first time you got an order?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: After October 7th?
9:33
SPEAKER_00: A month later.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: A month.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: So that month that you had no orders, that's Azbara forever.
9:40
unknown: Right.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I hear what you're saying.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: I under I understand what you're saying.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: I think that is is there a plan to maybe harness the incredible AI powers that we have here at the technology that we use here, that we invent.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: So we are the we've got the highest concentration of AI talent in the world here in Israel.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Nvidia and Palantir are opening headquarters.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Nvidia is opening the second largest headquarters in Israel.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Why?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Because of talent.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: So you're telling me that the Qataris, okay, 300,000 people, because they've got endless money, they can do a billion bots.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: And us, with our ingenuity and our startup nation, we can't do a trillion bots.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't buy it.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: All right.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: We've never tried.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: So we're looking forward to seeing that part happen.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it will.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: But getting back now to kinetic warfare, one of the biggest things we've been hearing out recently from former generals and current generals is there aren't enough soldiers.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Now, on this show, Sean and I have discussed many times the Kharidi draft issue.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Both of us are more of the opinion that it's more of an economics question than an actual need for warm bodies in the army.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: There is a need, we think for politics reasons it gets overblown.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: But what's what's the Amcha Israel plan to solve the Kharidi draft issue, not just because we need warm bodies in the army, but to create a more equitable relationship between the state and all members of the country.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Where do we stand there?
11:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I completely agree with you.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: And I've always said this because, you know, I I served in Jerusalem eight years as a city council and deputy mayor.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Jerusalem is 30% Kharedi.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the reasons why we're one of the we are the poorest country in the in the country.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Poor city.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: We're the poor sorry, we're the poorest city in the country.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: We're the poor with the capital city and the poorest city in the country.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Why?
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Because 30% of the population is Kharedi, 40% is Arab, and mainly by the Arabs, it's the women that don't work.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: By the Kharedim, it's the men that don't work, the women are working.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: So I do agree with you that it's largely an economic issue.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: But October 7th has accelerated something we haven't seen before.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: That is the trauma of unequal service.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: In other words, there's people who serve, who pay the taxes, who die for this country, and then there's people who don't do anything.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: And the party is over.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what will happen in this election, the karateim have to wake up and understand that the party is over.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, we believe in doing things that are realistic.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: What's not realistic?
12:06
SPEAKER_00: 50,000 karedim in jail.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: So we come from a different perspective.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: We need the carrot and we need the stick.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: The carrot is simply this.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't serve, you don't get.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you don't want to serve?
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Fine.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Now you don't have first buyer's tax exemption on purchase tax.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: You don't have um child care benefits, you don't have uh property tax discounts, you don't get what people who serve are getting, and people who serve will get more.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's essentially the platform.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, we are realistic people, and Offa Winter, in fact, is one of the few people who's done this.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: He raised a battalion of Kherei men uh when he was in Givati, and he did another one when he was he did another one for San Khanim, he did it in a way that they wanted to serve because he did it in a way where they can continue to be who they are.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: You hear Yeo Golan, what does he say?
13:06
SPEAKER_00: He says, we're gonna re-educate the religious public.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: In other words, what is up with that?
13:13
SPEAKER_00: The man is a left-wing fascist when you hear him speak.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: That's what he is.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: He's going to impose his worldview on them.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: We're saying we don't want to impose any worldview on anyone.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: You have to serve, but you can remain and be who you want to be and who you are.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And that is, we've set up a number of ways that we can do that.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: People have to understand that for a Haredi boy to serve these days is going up against your own community, getting spat out when you come home for the weekend.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes people have to change their uniforms to get home so that they won't, their family won't be targeted.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: It's not an easy thing for the people who do serve.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: So we have to help them embrace them.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: And we have to make it easier for others and slowly change that culture.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: But we do believe that studying Torah, as Bengurian believed, is a value for this country.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, we subsidize universities full of incredible professors that are changing the world.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: I think it's also fair to take the serious students, the very serious students, the top students uh of Torah in the country, and let them continue to study, because that is part of what a Jewish state should do.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: But the majority have to serve.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: They don't all have to be soldiers, they can also do national service.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: They can work in search and rescue, they can work as EMTs, they can work in many things that they already do and they volunteer as.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: They work in Zakka, in services, you know, like that.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: So there's many ways to skin this cat.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, the Arabs should also be serving.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: That was my next question.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Everybody should serve.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: Nobody here should be exempt from service unless you're providing something unique to the country.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: All right.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: So I think of one thing that we were that you mentioned slightly was that the the cultural difference between the regular Israeli community and the Kharedi world.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Like my son, who's now in 11th grade, is already preparing, goes to the gym, he's out in your son's.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: My son's in 12th grade, he's going to kosher crave, gym classes.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: It's part of it.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: It's part of their consciousness that that's the next step.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Whereas the kid who grows up in the Kharedi world, it's so foreign to him.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: There's no there's no culture of fitness, there's no culture of nutrition, there's no culture of militarism at all.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely nothing.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: On the contrary, there's a negative.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all of a sudden go to the army in the span of I passed a piece of legislation and now it's that.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: It's a little absurd.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: So we're doing it in a realistic way.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Which is and people are attacking us for it.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Why are you giving exemptions?
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh why are you talking about 25%?
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately, you can say all you want.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Gary Isaac could say all you want.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: 97%.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Good luck.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And one thing I'll say as a Ramat Khal, he never drafted a single party person to the army.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: He was the chief of staff.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: He never he never drafted anybody because they didn't want them.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Don't lie and now say you wanted them.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: I asked the Bennett people a very simple question.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: He was prime minister for a year in a government with no haredium.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Zero.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Why didn't he do anything?
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Why didn't he do it then?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Why didn't he change the education system of the heredim?
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Did they have an answer for you?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Why didn't they?
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, they gave me an answer.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: You know what they said?
16:21
SPEAKER_00: That before October 7th, it wasn't a priority.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Ah, so it really wasn't a value until now when people are angry and now you're trying to ride when you were in a position to make those changes, you never did.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So what?
16:36
SPEAKER_00: They're going from night to day and expect there to be a hundred percent recruitment?
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Good luck.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: We're doing it in a realistic way.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: We're doing it in a way that also respects the people who are actually learning, which is a value for our country, the way that professors and inventors are value for our country, and that's what we have to do.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Well that ties into the great next question is education.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: We just talked about education, about changing the education system.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: What, as we know, the the country's investment in education is at the highest it's ever been.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: And at least judging by the scores on our PISA tests internationally, we're at an all-time low.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Low.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: I think here in Jerusalem, we live in a little bit of a bubble.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: We have the high schools here in the Datilumi world are better than most.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: I think that my children are my children, I know specifically, anecdotally, are getting a great education, but that's not the case for the rest of the country.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: What are the plans in education?
17:27
SPEAKER_01: We have an extra extremely strong teachers' union.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: That's part of the problem.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: That is almost as big as a threat out of our actual enemies for strikes.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: And what's what can you tell us about the platform of your party for education for the whole country?
17:41
SPEAKER_00: So part of the problem in this country in general is that because we were built on socialist roots, which by the way, at the time there was a value in that, because the kibbutz movement were the people who ensured that we could eat with no inputs when we didn't have uh neighbors to import with and we didn't have the facility for that.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Um and so we needed to create kibbutzes in order to plow the land, in order to feed ourselves, and we were pretty self-sufficient for a long time.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Now, the problem is that in this system that was created in this country, and even though the Likud, who call themselves an economically liberal party, it's still very much um controlled by unions and special interests.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: And the Likud is not really a liberal economic party.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: You've got the Liberalim in the Likud friends of mine who are working hard to keep the Likud liberal economically, but for the most part, it's very disappointing to see what's happened there on that front.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And um and and that is part of the problem that the unions uh have become mafias.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: We definitely need to pass legislation in order to take, you know, to to quell the power, to make sure there's not um domino effective strikes and all sorts of things.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: These people, these people have the power to shut down the country and it makes absolutely no sense, like we saw in the airport recently.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: But in terms of education, the problem is that things are centralized around the ministry of education.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: They are the biggest employers, they employ hundreds of thousands of people, they employ the teachers directly, by the way.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen anywhere.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: We believe, and I can say this as a politician who was in local government, we believe in devolving power from the central command of the education ministry to cities, and cities giving more power to school principals so that they can manage their school the way they see fit, and you don't have incompetent people telling them what they need to do from above.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: The city knows its people better than the uh centralized educational ministry, and that is part of our plan, and and I think that that's a good start.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Is there is there any plan to change the way the education system works in the Haredi communities and the Arab communities to bring to focus again on the on the drafting side and the military service and national service side already in education and employment and attacking the the problems of the economics there?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Well, part of the problem that we have is that we have four different school systems.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: We have the religious, we have the secular, we have the Arab, and we have the ultra-Orthodox.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, the Arab and the ultra-orthodox, not the Arab Israeli, the Arab Jerusalem, um they they run in a model called independent, uh recognized but independent.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: What does it mean?
20:38
SPEAKER_00: That the government still pays for most things, and you get to decide what curriculum you teach.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: We have a educational law in this country, but somehow the ultra-orthodox school system and the Arab school system in Jerusalem is being exempt from that.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: We have to get that back.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: We need to have uh Haredi boys learning math until they're 18 years old or whenever it is that they finish their schooling.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: At the moment, they stop learning math when they're 11.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's so offensive about math within the uh ultra-orthodox culture.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't you know last time I checked, you can't see a naked woman in a math problem, but apparently that really scares them.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: No, but also to learn the more more complicated parts of the Gamara itself, you need math when you start calculating the percentages of interest of of sacrificial.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't understand it.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand it.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: But it but it's a it's a very deliberate thing so that they can't integrate and get good jobs and study in university.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: It's you know it's a bit like the Amish who want to keep people poor and ignorant, because if you do, then this will be holden to you.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: That's the Kharedi leadership.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: They keep their population poor and ignorant so that they keep their political power.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've never thought of it from that perspective, but it's not about religion.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: It's about power.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Nothing is ever about religion, it's always about power.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: The same with the women.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: We don't have women in our political.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Political parties because religion says so.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: First of all, nobody can point to a place in the Torah that it says that women can't be leaders and politicians.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, go and string up Miriam and Dvorah and all the queens of Israel because that's what they were.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: It's not about religion, it's about power.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Nobody, you know, I learned something very valuable many years ago when I joined politics, and this is what's happening to us right now with the Likud.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Nobody gives up power willingly.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: You've got to take power.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's the problem.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Right now, the Likud are extremely threatened that the normal right-wing voters who don't want to vote for them but still remain right wing are voting for Ophel Winter.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: That's what they're scared about, and that's why they're attacking us.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Because nobody gives power willingly.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: All right.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, we're going to get to the politic questions at the end, because that's going to be the fun part.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: But I want to ask you now, as an Ola, as I think the highest placed Ola on any list running for the Knesset.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Or the highest placed Anglo Ola any list.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, Anglo.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: And the only realistic Anglo-Ola on any list.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Aliyah is a huge big deal.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Huge.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Everyone that comes on this show, both my co-host and I, Sean, we're both immigrants.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Everyone that's come on this show is an immigrant at some point.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: We're, you know, we we feel that we have an we have an oversized view of our value to the nation.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: We all think that we are the greatest saviors of issues.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're a government oversized.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I think we have a fantastic impact in this country.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: First of all, let's not forget everybody was an Olay at some point before 1948.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: So this country was built by immigrants.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh some of them came very traumatized, and this was their therapy.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: They built a country in the ashes of a genocide.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Now the the question is, we do have we do have a great impact in this country, but unfortunately, we don't have recognition of that impact by the veterans in this country.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: I made Aliyah before Nefesh.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: I made Aliyah at the age of a very young age of 18.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: For me, it was easy.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: There's no bureaucracy because I had nothing.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: I came with nothing.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: You didn't have to I didn't have to transfer degrees yet or taxes, anything.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: I got off a plane and I was here.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: That was the the beginning and the end of it.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: All my education, all my professional career, everything was built here.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I hear horror stories from friends.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: I get calls every day.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: From friends' parents, and you get calls every day.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: And I get horror stories from soldiers in the army dealing with bureaucracy that that kind of makes sense to me as someone who's been in the army and dealing with it for so long, but it's kind of absurd.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: The reality is that Aliyah has the potential to not just be a place of refuge, but a place for growth.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: To really bring in all name.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: What how do you see Aliyah integration into Israel?
24:33
SPEAKER_01: What changes do you see happening and what what are the benefits of it?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: So, first of all, I see it uh you have to make a mind a mindset uh switch.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: I see it as a talent acquisition strategy.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: What's going on in the country right now?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: We need teachers.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: There's not enough teachers, there's not enough nurses, there's not enough doctors.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, you have a wave of anti-Semitism around the world and people wanting to come and make their future here, make their lives here, make a living here.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Why are we not being more strategic about that?
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Another thing, anything to do with mental health, you know this better than me, especially with our soldiers and the people that have gone through the the worst three years of uh of our history here, as far as I can see.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Is psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health workers.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Do you know the hurdles people have to go through?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you got here, you started your career here, you didn't have to.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: But if you didn't, if you'd done a degree, if you'd done a professional certification, you have to get here.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: And then you have to deal with this whole thing of getting recertified and you know, finding your transcripts when you were 18 years old.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, doctors waiting.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: The country needs doctors and doctors waiting eight months to get their recertification.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, and Efish Menefish has done a good job with bringing doctors from America, but they only bring from America and Canada.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: What about the rest of the world?
25:51
SPEAKER_00: What about the rest of the world?
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we have to do.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: We have to eliminate bureaucracy.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, so much is stuck as bottlenecked in one little department in the Ministry of Interior.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Why?
26:04
SPEAKER_00: One woman.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, she's in charge of who's Jewish and who isn't.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: We kidding?
26:08
SPEAKER_00: With the startup nation, this woman's like working with papers and you have to send a fax.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Are we crazy?
26:14
SPEAKER_00: We have to digitalize, we have to modernize, we have to cut regulation, cut bureaucracy, and we have to recognize degrees.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: We have to ensure that when people come here, they get the right advice for where to put their children in school.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: People are confused.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: They come here with little kids.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: They don't know what you and I know because we've I my kids were born here.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: I learned from my neighbors, my friends, in the park.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: They don't have that.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: They land here and they they pick schools because somebody in the Mistrana Klita in the absorption ministry that maybe doesn't know Jerusalem or doesn't know Renana or doesn't know Modin, they're telling them, oh, this is on the list.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Computer says this.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: We have to start giving these Olim better advice, cutting down regulation, recognizing their degrees.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: We're living in a globalized economy.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Is there a reason why a degree from a good university somewhere around the world is not our certification?
27:08
SPEAKER_00: You're a nurse from New York, you worked in one of the top hospitals.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Now you have to worry about recertification?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Are we crazy?
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's you you've got me.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: You convinced me I'm voting for you, Florida.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: I should hope so, Ari.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: So one second.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Now let's get into the political stuff.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: That's for the fun, that's for everyone.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: That's the meat and potatoes of an election.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: The reality is here we have a parliamentary system.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't think even in the best polls, Amkhe Israel's not polling at 61 seats and can't form a government all on its own.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately not.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, maybe next time.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Maybe next time.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: Maybe next time.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: But until that happens, there needs to be a coalition formed.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Join this party, that party.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Ofer has announced that he will sit and join a B a BB Netanyahu-led coalition that's angered a lot of people, myself included, who's kind of had enough of BB, and I'm very much on the right.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, it's also given a lot of people confidence to vote for the party.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: So as we all know in politics, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Always.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Everything you do is wrong and everything you do is right.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: How do you see the future coalition opposition forming out?
28:15
SPEAKER_01: What's realistically possible?
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Where do you see the party sitting?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: In what constellation?
28:20
SPEAKER_01: If you could have it your way.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, don't say that, because politics is the art of the possible.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: It's not the art of the ideal.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: And so ideally, we should get uh 65 seats and off a winter should be the next prime minister.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Let's be realistic and come down to it.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, on October 8th, everybody said we need new blood, we need new politicians, good energy, people that weren't We've said that many times on this.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Many times we we need people who weren't part of the fracas of the disaster of the massacre of October 7th.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Because everybody, everybody has a part in this, leading up for a couple of decades of how we got to that place.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: People in the coalition, people in the opposition, and the the leaders of the coalition today were the army generals and the army leadership that allowed this to get this bad, let's be honest.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: So we talk about the art of the possible.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: We're a right-wing party.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: We make no bones about that.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: We believe in right-wing policies, we believe in an aggressive stance towards our enemies.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: We're not going to achieve that with a government that is depending on Arab parties.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: So we can't be in a government that is going to take the Arab parties.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Yair Golan, who goes around the world saying that our holy soldiers are murderers.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: We can't sit with these people.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: So what's what what can we do?
29:39
SPEAKER_00: What are the options then?
29:40
SPEAKER_00: The options are to sit in a what the options, ironically, are what Netanyahu said himself two months ago, that he wants to create a wide right-wing coalition.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: He said that two months ago, and now he's kind of acting in a completely different way.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't really want a wide coalition.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: He wants a very narrow coalition like what he's had so far that lets him keep the ultra-Orthodox not serving, etc., etc.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: We want a wide right-wing coalition led by him that is actually going to push him to do the right thing when it comes to decisive victories in Gaza and when it comes to recruiting ultra-orthodox to the army.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: All right.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I can I can push you from where I know I'm not going to get it from you at this point.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, you can you can try and push me more, but that's that's essentially what we want.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, my question is this those parties that call themselves right wing, like like Lieberman or like Bennett, they call themselves.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they are not.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that's what they call themselves.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Why on earth are they even entertaining, sitting sitting with Arab parties who basically are here waiting it out for the next 100 years until they get rid of us about the biggest and who say it in Arabic?
30:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's the beginning, it's all about power.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: It's about power.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, there are also principles, and there's also not committing suicide.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to commit suicide, and we don't want our country to commit suicide by sitting with people that want the two-state solution, which is the beginning of the end here, and by people who say in Arabic that Hamas is not a terrorist group.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: And they say they can't condemn Hamas.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: They can't condemn Hamas, they whitewash terrorism.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: We cannot sit with those people because those people are dangerous.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: So it is a is it an ideal situation that people are tired of BB?
31:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, of course it's not.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: But politics is the art of the possible, and we are principled, and we are all um believe in the values, the Jabutinsky values of the right wing, and that's what we're going to do.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think the line that sums it up the best that you've heard you I've heard you say many times on this current campaign trail is do you love your country more than you hate Bibi?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: That's what I say to the Lieberman people, and that's what I say to the Bennett people.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Do you love your country more than you hate Bibi?
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Because if you do, and you can put the ego aside and put everything he's done to you, because I know he's done things to them, as he has with all of us, by the way.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: But it's not about me.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: Lieberman is not about you.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: It's not about you, Bennett.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Get over yourselves.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: It's about what's best for the country and how we can move forward, win decisive wars, and make sure enemies don't dare, don't dare.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: We restore deterrence, they don't dare to even think about doing what they did on October 7th.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: You can't do that with your Yogolan.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: All right, and I have one last question for you.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: And before you answer, I want you to think about the answer for a minute so that I can close the show.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: I want you to think what is a thought or what is something that you see happening around you that gives you optimism for Israel's future?
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Elections aside, whatever the results are going to be, the results are gonna be.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully that's with you and the Knesset.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: And what is it that makes you optimistic for Israel's future?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: While you think about the answer, I want to turn to everyone again and say thank you for watching till now.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you to our partners here at Jerusalem Media and Group and our sponsors at BeTheirIsrael.com for all your live streaming services and your families and friends from around the world that can join you virtually for any events you have here in Israel.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: BeTheEIsrael.com is your step.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: And remember, like, share, subscribe, share this with your friends.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: But most importantly, when election day comes on October 27th here in Israel, go out and vote.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Of course, if you ask me, vote for Amchha Israel and O for winter.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: But if not, still vote, because again, voting is the most important thing that you can do in a democracy.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Fleur, what is it that gives you optimism for Israel's future?
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So um last week my daughter got engaged.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: And uh her and her fiance, who's a soldier, a officer, and uh outstanding officer who was injured in Lebanon a few months ago and he's back on his feet and he's back in the army.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: He refused to uh to leave his soldiers behind, even though he was uh moderately injured, which in this country moderate is pretty bad.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: They had an engagement party for their friends last week.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: All of their friends are serving in elite units girls and boys.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: And and what gives me hope is that we have the most amazing generation of young people in this country.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: People who don't live for themselves but live for their people, for the collective.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen around the world.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: We're living in an iPhone era, I, I, I, I.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: And these kids are all about the weak.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: They're in it together, they fight together, they've seen their friends die, they've buried their friends, they've seen their friends injured, and they were there dancing with so much joy of life and so much happiness.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: That gives me hope for the future.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: From here, I put it on the ground, the Jerusalem Media Group.