Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Eight's Tender Strength | Power, Vulnerability & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom

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The Eight's Tender Strength | Power, Vulnerability & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Deanna, you and I got to explore the Enneagram 9 last month, and we highlighted their desire and longing for peace and encouraged the 9 to go on a journey to find and utilize their voice.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: And this month, I'm excited that you're kicking off the Enneagram 8 month.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be so rich.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say if you are not an Enneagram 8, this does not mean you check the box and not listen.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Don't skip this because we all have moments where we need to access our inner eight.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: We need to set a boundary, speak the truth.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's a strong possibility that you have a line of growth or disintegration to the eight or a wing.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I want you to listen going, oh, this is what to love about an eight.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is what to know about the eight and celebrate and to ultimately help you hear their heart, whether you're eight or not, not just the intensity and the what the memes, how the means paint them.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So Deanna, thank you for coming back on and sharing a little bit more about how the spiritual formation for the Enneagram 8's journey looks like.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me again.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited about this.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll dive in right away because there's so much we're going to cover in the four episodes in this month.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: But what do you think surprises people most about the Enneagram 8?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think others experience that they don't expect or maybe they don't know about?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing that came to mind for me was I think that some of it, if they learn that the assertiveness that they come with is actually part of how they connect with you, I think that really shocks people.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It did for me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned it a little bit too late in some places of my life.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that is such a point of connection for them.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't necessarily see it as assertive when they're doing it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, but they are tough, they're intense, they're powerful, but I think underneath they're just protecting something that's really tender.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: They have probably one of the most tender hearts, I believe, which seems like kind of an irony when we think about how assertive they can be, right?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: They also are deeply loyal.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very loyal.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: They um are very justice-minded, protect the vulnerable.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of people are just champions of that, I would say.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Injustice, the ones that I know that is forefront in their mind all of the time.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what about anger?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe that part of it surprises people.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it's not being angry for the sake of anger.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's what you just alluded to.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: The they're specifically their anger is directed towards the injustice, the unfairness.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what I see a lot play out in my eights is they're really angry about those who are being exploited, the weaker, the vulnerable, the downtrodden, the underdog, when they're not being cared for fairly, an eight gets riled up and watch out.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: You do not want to get in the way.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: True story.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think um in that the intensity, though, as they come, is just a cover up for possibly the fear of being being controlled or betrayed.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: But in that, when they're coming at the injustice, it's just that piece of them has affected their hearts so much that that's where the that's where the intensity comes from for sure.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like this is important to state here because our friend listening may not know that both of us are raising or have raised an Enneagram 8 daughter.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I feel like you and I have a unique lens of which to approach this because we see the most tender side, the most true side of a female Enneagram 8.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I do know from the exterior, you can very much experience something very different than what is true about the inner workings of the eight.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to kind of put that, hey, just so you know, Deanna and I really know what we're talking about when we're talking about an Enneagram 8.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So the the reality is they're not just bulldozers.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like the memes are often making fun of or mocking, I guess.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's actually a lot of tenderness underneath the intensity or even the anger that maybe people experience from the eight.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Deanna, not only based on your experience, but uh as a mom, but as a coach and you using the Enneagram, what is at the core of the eight?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: What are they typically or what are they typically most afraid of?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would say what they're running from in coming towards people in is being controlled.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to be manipulated, they don't want to be betrayed or appear weak.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Weakness is is a big igniter for them, is a specific trigger that they try and stay away from, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so they fear vulnerability because they equate it with the weakness.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we'll talk about this more as we go along, too, that their weakness would get exploited.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that they just have weakness, but that it would be known and it would be exploited to their disadvantage, I think is probably what the fear is.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And at the deepest level, I think they fear being uh hurt or taken advantage of if they let their guard down.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that their hearts really need to hear that they won't be betrayed.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that they're safe.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think about it almost as a defense mechanism, even when it comes to the tenderness required or the vulnerability required for an apology, even.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: In my experience, both with clients and in my home, even saying sorry or showing remorse requires a level of vulnerability that is scary.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just think that's an important thing to know.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that they aren't sorry or that they aren't remorseful, but to let you in on that remorse or that they can own that they're wrong, that even in itself, I think that's an important thing.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like as we frame this, I mean we're being serious when they're afraid of being vulnerable.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about like these aspects that some of us, for me, saying sorry is so easy.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Being I do have an eight wing, but being vulnerable at that level is not a hiccup.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not even about wrong or right for the eight.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's more about if I let them know, will they exploit that reality?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe even, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of other thoughts on that.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious, Deanna, when when we're kind of talking about this element and running away from something in order to protect or out of fear, what would you say they're longing for underneath the strength or even the assertiveness that a lot of people experience from them?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So then that would take us to their core desire, really, of being autonomous, of being like, I'm I'm doing this, I'm gonna figure it out.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And with justice, too, that's their desire, the protection.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not only for themselves, it's for others.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'd probably see that greater for others than even themselves lots of times, and to be strong enough not to be hurt.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is they're like armor up, let's go.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is right, this is our core desire, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they want a world where they where the vulnerable are protected and the powerful don't exploit.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is their ideal after.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they long to trust that they won't be betrayed if they let someone in.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because there has been times probably when they did and that didn't happen.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a piece in there to be strong enough to not be hurt, and that's in all kinds of relationships.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's hard for an eight because this this sort of notes the tenderness is I think they're actually hurt pretty easily.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is the arm's length that maybe some people experience from an eight.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Their inner circle is really small.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: They do not let many people in, not even from a vulnerable standpoint, but at all.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: The beautiful thing is if you're in that inner circle, count yourself really blessed because they're going to protect you.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: They'll be incredibly loyal.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it is difficult for the eight to even allow the just the openness and the vulnerability that that requires, that they might be betrayed.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: The reality is any human relationship is imperfect.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: There are going to be moments where they do something that is hurtful.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, in the growth pattern for the eight is realizing betrayal will happen.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's different levels of it, and there's different, therefore, levels of engagement that might just require you to take that what feels like betrayal or where your vulnerability was maybe not honored the same way you would have honored someone else's.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't intentional, it was unintentional.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And to be able to process through some of that in a in a way where it's not so dichotomous of being in or out, or the wrong or right, or betraying or loyal, that there's somewhere in between of being human.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's part of the experience.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just had this thought of just recently in the last few months, had an experience with an eight that I guess probably they had an expectation of didn't you know that was a weakness in me?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And why are you making fun of that?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was just kind of a an off-color kind of joke around what was happening.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like this arrow that just took this person right out.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's so, like I said, armoring up, and you don't see that come down very often if those kinds of things continue to happen in their lives.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited about the e-book release of Wholehearted Enneagram.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I've been sharing little bits and pieces, but a couple of the elements here is that in each chapter specific to an Enneagram type, I have done a fictional narrative.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's weaving in different elements of the eight, kind of giving an opportunity to walk in someone else's shoes.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not that Enneagram type, what would that look like?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or for you as that type to explore it in someone else's language or written out in front of you.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the pieces that I weave in the story, but then also explicitly, is compare the false script versus the voice of love.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of those.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I for brevity's sake in the book, I didn't list all of them.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know you and I do a lot of that through our coaching work, through identity and understanding the lies that we've believed.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's, I mean, we could do a year of podcast episodes on this alone, but I wanted to talk about it for the eight here.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's the lie that they might be believing?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And to combat that is a voice of truth, the truth that the Lord wants them to hear.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Can you give us some of those illustrations of what that might look like for an eight?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: What might be going on in their mind?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: False script, and what is the truth to that?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start with one false script: is I have to stay strong or I'll be hurt, like we've been talking about.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the voice of love that the Lord can say is strength and vulnerability can coexist.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: The false script of vulnerability is weakness.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can be um uh the voice of love can be you don't have to control everything to be safe, even yourself, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Controlling your vulnerability, protecting armoring up, as you've said.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's almost had this picture of an armored car in my head, um, which is a big deal if I can see a picture.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So false script is I can't trust anyone.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then the voice of love is you are protected by love, not by power.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big one.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: It is that will change things if we can really get that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think one last one we could talk about is I have to control everything to stay safe.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the voice of love, the Lord can say, your tenderness is not a weakness, it's a gift.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that would be such a gift to those that you love to show the even going back to that apology illustration.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know when the sincere apology is given, it is so beautiful and rich.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that something profound has happened.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't take it for granted.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you love an eight, if you know an eight, understand that when you get that gift of vulnerability, whether it's an apology or not.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many different examples.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Consider what a treasure that is from them, for sure.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: When the Enneagram eight is sorting through how they experience God, because there is an element where we all experience God uniquely based on our desires, but also there's overlays of culture and family of origin and and all of those elements.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I think at the end of the day, a lot of it comes back to just the inner workings, not only how we mirror God's character traits, but who we want God to be.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So give us some insights, some spiritual direction elements of how you would coach an eight in their experience of God or taking time to experience God in the fullness that he wants to offer.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think probably when they connect most with God is when they see him as who they perceive themselves to be or who they would like to be.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that is strong and powerful and just and protective.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think that's when they would most resonate with who they see God to be.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think they also see him as a warrior, as the defender of the oppressed and the championship of justice.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots lots of spaces there that we've talked about already.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But they may struggle to see God as tender or gentle or safe, and possibly, I think, even see that as that would be weak for him to maybe be that, you know.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that might be a lie that they would have to overcome about him.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: They may resist, surrender because it feels like weakness or loss of control.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes even just the idea of surrendering seems like it's so far away because that would mean that they're not controlling what's happening in front of them.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and even prayer.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think prayer can feel like a power struggle for them.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: That they possibly even see that as weakness as well, because then it's I'll do it my way, I'll figure it out, I will do it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to pray, I don't need to come to the Lord with this because it might feel too too tender for them, too, too vulnerable.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's such an important understanding of the resisting surrender because it's letting go, it's releasing control.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I love, I know I've talked about it before on the podcast, but John Eldred's, I give everyone and everything to you, Lord.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a critical whisper prayer for an eight of releasing and relinquishing the control and from those that you love, or just even the things that you want to control in your life.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really an important element and what you allude to, even if that's what the Lord is inviting them into, is surrender, relinquishing control, understanding that in that surrender, it's not weakness or even, but to be fair, in our weakness, we are made strong in Christ because we are loved.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: So do you have an example of an ape you've walked through who has experienced some breakthrough and what the fruit of that look like?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, actually, I think even in the way they have experienced the Lord, I think sometimes they may learn to take charge because they're afraid to come under some unjust authority.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: But when they learn, the most beautiful thing is being able to come under God's authority, that he is the one.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think even changing the language or the script to he's sovereign, like really getting that truth in them that this is the way and the truth and the life, and he is sovereign and he is over all and he sees all and he knows all, and and he is all about injustice, he is all about all of the things that they're really powerful thinking about.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just thinking generally, but there are lots of places where I've seen when AIDS are on maybe the unhealthy side, they don't necessarily perceive how others see them, how they experience them.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when they start to do that, I've seen the maturing.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of my favorite types actually is mature type eight, when they have when they're just come into their own and they make things happen and they recognize how they affect other people.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even saying this with my daughter, I've noticed recently, she said, Mom, I'll say that and I'll think, Ooh, that was that was a little rough.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, 10 years ago, that wouldn't have been a thing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I awareness, yeah, the awareness as it grows and as they mature.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even in voice, she's talked about that before, about how her voice is louder and she recognizes that.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So tries to be a little bit softer when she's talking through things, unless it's injustice.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then she's riled up and can't help.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's really beautiful watching the tenderness come and recognize that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, I think that's probably a great example.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know a couple of eights who are even older than I am, and they it's so beautiful.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it's marvelous.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's marvelous.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm thinking of a an Enneagram eight coach in our circle who has so much energy and tenacity and grit and just is changing her community right and left in a way that only an Enneagram eight could.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a marvel to watch it all unfold.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's really incredible.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking about a conversation that I had on the podcast probably circa 2018, 2019, with an Enneagram 8 mom that I had coached, and she'd been part of my mom's group.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: But she said something to me that was so insightful that stuck with me.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And this kind of ties back to how we relate to God or how we are not relating well to God.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, that being his father and, you know, any part of the Trinity.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: But for her, she said she realized there was such a dramatic shift in her walk with the Lord when she realized that she could be vulnerable with God.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she said she had heard it a lot and she knew it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: She'd done prayer room internships, served on church forever, was raised.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: A believer.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: But the moment she understood about herself that vulnerability was a scary thing, the vulnerability was going to cost her something.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And she had language around that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And she realized how she was holding back from the Lord.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she knew God knew everything.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: But giving her that insight and that awareness shifted how she engaged in her spiritual walk, in her prayer life, in bringing everything before the Lord in a new way and believing that it was safe and she was safe.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he wasn't going to use it against her.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that he loved her anyway.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that there was tenderness in the reception of the vulnerability.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would, I would use that going, AIDS, I hope that you experience that and believe that to be true.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And those who leavenate to understand that is what they're looking for in their vulnerability, is that we receive it with equal tenderness and care.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And while other elements in them, they want intensity and they want the pushback in those moments of vulnerability, that is not the time to do it at all.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's really I want to talk about some of the spiritual practices, including getting in the word of God, or what we love to do is sometimes highlight a passage or a scripture in particular that we have found speaks uniquely to different types.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: So for you, what's a passage or scripture that you believe has really resonated with Enneagram AIDS in the past that when you've worked with them?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm gonna read it straight from the word here.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's 2 Corinthians 12, 9 and 10.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: But he said to me, so God is saying to Paul, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults and hardships and persecutions and difficulties.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: For when I am weak, then I am strong.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're in the place, in the theme here, where weakness overrides their ability to feel vulnerable or want to go there.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you were talking about their rarely apologizing the difficulty of admitting mistakes because it feels like weakness.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this verse can really bring freedom for that when they can reframe the weakness, that it is this place where God's power shows up, that they can just invite him to trust in their vulnerability, like you were saying, that it doesn't disqualify them and it just positions them, really.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're all looking for with the Lord, too, is just being positioned so that we can receive from him.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this will help move them there.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: When we're practicing getting in the word of God, utilizing scripture, letting it move through us, what does that practice look like in accompanying to getting in the word of God and and believing it to be true for our unique situations?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's really good.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think specifically for the eight is um being able to name the vulnerability out loud.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have to feel it to heal it, you name it so that you can get free from it and put it out there and bring light to it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would encourage um the type eights to move towards getting into a practice even once a day or once a week, naming what they feel vulnerable about, not even in the situation per se, but just be having that awareness of where they're afraid or they might need help or they don't know what to do, and that it's okay.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to not know what to do, that they don't have to always fix it or figure it out.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I think that's probably the naming vulnerability doesn't make them weak.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: It makes that's beautiful.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I love that because I'm thinking about last month's conversation for the nine, and your encouragement was to name what they want.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is an important understanding for a friend to hear is that we can think a lot of things, but until we say them out and practice speaking them aloud, it's not even to a certain person, it's just allowed.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: There is a shift from just happening in your body to outside of your body.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so what you name here, calling out the vulnerability, the being honest, even if it's prayer that's not just happening in your head.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: There is something that can shift in that.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's ease in the practice, where if as we can become more comfortable with ourselves and saying out loud, I think what follows is we become more comfortable in our relationships.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Not willy-nilly.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're not talking about you're sharing everybody, all your stuff and being vulnerable.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: But as we get more comfortable in that practice and doing that out loud, whether it's for a nine and sharing their opinions and what they really want and for the eight for offering their vulnerability, I think it seems simple, but it's actually really transformative.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a tricky place for them.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think even those words might be tricky.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um just practicing, I think we all need to practice.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: We all have parts of humanity in us that we are kind of a little bit of a shadow side that are difficult to do, or but the transformation that comes when we are that vulnerable really is we can't explain that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Holy Spirit will use that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with speaking it out loud.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: I encourage people to do that all the time, to pray out loud, to speak out loud, to read the word out loud.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's then it's not just in our heads and spinning around in there.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's power in it for sure.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I really hope that the friend who's listening, again, whether they love an eight or they are an eight, is that they hear the invitation for them or for the eight, is that you don't have to carry everything alone.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to hold it all together.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to control it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Vulnerability isn't weakness.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's truly just as Deanna read the scripture, Second Corinthians, in that weakness, God meets you and his strength empowers you.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's so there, there's so many great elements about the eight to consider and to think through.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: I would love my friend who's listening, who's an eight maybe specifically, is to consider, or if you have an eight part of you, where are you trying to control outcomes instead of trusting God?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And sitting with that question, understand just paying attention to what rises up.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're not doing anything about it necessarily, or just paying attention, that awareness piece.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Deanna, is there any last thing that you feel like you'd really like to make sure that anyone hears for this episode about the eight?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just want to bless them in their vulnerability.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to bless you in your strength.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to bless you in those places that you carry the torch for us and you pave the way.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: You are tenacious, and the strength and the assertiveness are when you use them in a way that's in alignment with the Holy Spirit, it is really powerful, really beautiful.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: It moves mountains, it it builds daycares and it fosters children and it does all of the things that are that we see as someone justices in the world.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I just bless you, type eights, for this strength in you, and but also that you can bring it to the Lord and and be weak when you need to be vulnerable and allow him to transform your weakness into something really even more beautiful.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, something breathtaking.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and amen.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Deanna, thank you for that blessing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to chat again next month as we're gonna talk about the Enneagram 7.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in the meantime, next week, I'm gonna get to share a conversation with a type 8 who's been walking this wholehearted journey.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna love the story.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Deanna, thank you again for coming on and being my go-to this year.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have so much fun together.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.