Latest / ChangeMakers with Katie Goar / Episode 140: Evan Holladay, Founder & CEO, Holladay Ventures

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Episode 140: Evan Holladay, Founder & CEO, Holladay Ventures · ChangeMakers with Katie Goar

0:05
Speaker 1: This is change Makers with Katie Gore, finding the right
0:09
Speaker 1: solutions for the affordable housing community.
0:13
Speaker 2: Today's change maker is Evan Holiday, the founder and CEO
0:17
Speaker 2: of Holiday Ventures. He has led more than six hundred
0:21
Speaker 2: and ninety four million dollars in affordable, workforce and mixed
0:26
Speaker 2: income developments built around intentional.
0:29
Speaker 3: Design and strong community partnerships.
0:33
Speaker 2: He also mentors emerging developers through Affordable Housing Development Mastery
0:37
Speaker 2: and the Real Estate Developer Academy. And we're going to
0:40
Speaker 2: get into more about that in a few minutes. But first, Evan,
0:44
Speaker 2: welcome to the change Makers podcast.
0:46
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you so much for having me on, Katie,
0:48
Speaker 4: excited to be here.
0:50
Speaker 3: It is a pleasure to have you.
0:51
Speaker 2: We've had a few developers in the past and it's
0:55
Speaker 2: always such an enlightening conversation because everybody wants to build
0:59
Speaker 2: our way out of this affordable housing crisis, and you
1:03
Speaker 2: guys bring some realism to why that may not necessarily
1:08
Speaker 2: be the full solution. So I'm excited to get right
1:13
Speaker 2: into this first though, I usually like to ask our guests,
1:18
Speaker 2: how in the world did you come to this magnificent
1:25
Speaker 2: of frustrating yet rewarding You go straight?
1:28
Speaker 3: So why don't you start us off there.
1:30
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, all the above. Yeah. I was lucky, fortunate,
1:35
Speaker 4: blessed to figure out what I wanted to do in college.
1:40
Speaker 4: I uh, I stumbled into it in a way, but
1:43
Speaker 4: I really wanted to. So I was going to school
1:46
Speaker 4: for pre med I thought I wanted to be a
1:48
Speaker 4: doctor and learned very quickly, like within the first semester.
1:53
Speaker 4: I was like, all right, science and chemistry is not
1:55
Speaker 4: my thing. I'm not in this. I want to help people,
1:58
Speaker 4: but it doesn't need to be through medicine. And so
2:03
Speaker 4: I was looking around for what I could do. And
2:06
Speaker 4: at the same time, there's a big student housing development
2:09
Speaker 4: announced on campus and it was going to change the campus.
2:13
Speaker 4: It was more of a commuter school was turning into
2:15
Speaker 4: a residential school. And this was really an impetus for that,
2:18
Speaker 4: and I was like, man, that excites me, Like I
2:21
Speaker 4: just I want to be a part of that. And
2:23
Speaker 4: I was drawn into it, and so I mentioned it
2:26
Speaker 4: to people I knew just off hand, and one of
2:28
Speaker 4: my mentors he said, well, you know, I know the developer.
2:32
Speaker 4: How about I introduce you. And it didn't just click
2:35
Speaker 4: right away, you know, the Developer's like, all right, well,
2:37
Speaker 4: prove yourself, show me your value. And he's like, get
2:40
Speaker 4: people out to my groundbreaking. So I convinced my buddies.
2:44
Speaker 4: I gave them pizza. In return, they passed out flyers
2:47
Speaker 4: for his groundbreaking. And that's really how I got my
2:50
Speaker 4: foot in the door to development. I still had to
2:51
Speaker 4: call the guy like every week, you know, be like, hey,
2:55
Speaker 4: I helped you out with the groundbreaking. Anything else I
2:57
Speaker 4: can help you out with. And I finally was given
2:59
Speaker 4: that opportunity to basically help him lease up the units.
3:02
Speaker 4: We leased up three hundred and fifty five beds in
3:04
Speaker 4: five months. And I was nineteen years old in college,
3:07
Speaker 4: Like I knew nothing, but I was just excited and
3:10
Speaker 4: I wanted to I wanted to be valuable to somebody else.
3:14
Speaker 4: And through that experience, I realized I was like, one,
3:17
Speaker 4: this is so cool, Like I was there as they
3:19
Speaker 4: were framing the building leasing it up allow and two
3:23
Speaker 4: I realized like, through that process, you know, I started
3:26
Speaker 4: to get a good relationship with the developer, and I
3:29
Speaker 4: mentioned I was like, hey, you know the lobbies. I
3:31
Speaker 4: looked at the plans the lobbies. You know, you have
3:34
Speaker 4: a lobby on every floor at the elevator. There's no windows.
3:36
Speaker 4: There's a wall right there. I was like, why don't
3:38
Speaker 4: you know, be nice to have some natural light, and
3:41
Speaker 4: he's like, you know what, that's a good idea. And
3:42
Speaker 4: two weeks later there are windows being put in on
3:45
Speaker 4: each floor in the lobby and it just like like,
3:49
Speaker 4: you know, shattered my glass. And I was like, wow,
3:51
Speaker 4: I can, actually, you know, the small details actually make
3:55
Speaker 4: a big difference, and I can you know, my voice matters,
3:57
Speaker 4: and I can actually, you know, have an impact on
3:59
Speaker 4: this development. So from that point I was hooked. I
4:02
Speaker 4: was like, all right, I want to be a developer.
4:03
Speaker 4: I want to put the deal together like he did.
4:06
Speaker 4: And then at the same time, I volunteered for a
4:10
Speaker 4: nonprofit doing amazing work helping single parents, usually single mothers,
4:15
Speaker 4: go back and get their college degree. They're called Family
4:18
Speaker 4: Scholar House.
4:19
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
4:21
Speaker 4: Yeah. Kathy Diikstra the executive director. She would be an
4:24
Speaker 4: amazing guest side note, but I'm.
4:26
Speaker 3: Writing it down right now. Actually yeah.
4:28
Speaker 4: I mean she was a huge inspiration for me because
4:31
Speaker 4: I saw the work. I was literally a freshman in
4:34
Speaker 4: college and I saw the work that they were doing
4:37
Speaker 4: and the impact that they were having on so many families,
4:39
Speaker 4: like helping give them, a safe space, a community, a
4:42
Speaker 4: support system, you know, after school programs for the kids.
4:45
Speaker 4: So that would give the parents, the mothers enough time
4:48
Speaker 4: to go to class and get a better degree, to
4:51
Speaker 4: get a better paying job. And it's just that really
4:54
Speaker 4: opened me up to be like, Wow, you can help
4:57
Speaker 4: people through real estate. And so I knew. I knew
5:01
Speaker 4: when I learned about that, I was like, all right,
5:02
Speaker 4: affordable housing, I can help people and I can build things.
5:05
Speaker 4: Affordable housing is that combination. And I just from that
5:09
Speaker 4: moment I dove all in and I knew that's what
5:12
Speaker 4: I wanted to do, something within impact real estate, and
5:14
Speaker 4: I found my space to do that. And so from there,
5:18
Speaker 4: you know, I was part of an entrepreneur program in
5:20
Speaker 4: school and they told us to start a business, and
5:23
Speaker 4: it was really just supposed to be, you know, for
5:25
Speaker 4: a class, but I convinced my team to do a
5:28
Speaker 4: modular housing development company centered around sustainable and affordable mixed
5:33
Speaker 4: income housing. And so we had house built manufacturing plants
5:39
Speaker 4: that I had laid off eleven hundred skilled workers with
5:41
Speaker 4: the housing market crash, and we figured out a way
5:44
Speaker 4: to basically build in the same factories, build the same
5:47
Speaker 4: box and just put it on a foundation instead of
5:50
Speaker 4: on water, and we ended up winning some competitions and
5:53
Speaker 4: we're like, Wow, we maybe we have something here, and
5:56
Speaker 4: so we started to really create it as a as
5:58
Speaker 4: a business model, and I was looking for groups to
6:01
Speaker 4: partner with and really just wanted to get my foot
6:03
Speaker 4: in the door. So I started applying for every affordable
6:06
Speaker 4: developer and really just developer in general. I was like,
6:08
Speaker 4: I just want to get my foot in that door,
6:10
Speaker 4: that first opportunity to work at a developer. And as
6:15
Speaker 4: luck would have it, you know, I was just trying
6:17
Speaker 4: to put myself in the right room with the right people,
6:20
Speaker 4: and I ended up hearing that one of the biggest
6:23
Speaker 4: developers in Louisville at the time was playing this golf
6:25
Speaker 4: outing and I'm terrible golf, but I was like, you
6:28
Speaker 4: know what, I'm going to put myself out there and
6:30
Speaker 4: I'm going to try to connect with these guys, you know,
6:33
Speaker 4: in person, while I'm also applying for a job. And
6:37
Speaker 4: you know, basically one of the one of the guys
6:40
Speaker 4: on their foursome in the golf outing got sick and
6:43
Speaker 4: so I was able to get in a all day
6:46
Speaker 4: golf outing with the owner of the development company that
6:49
Speaker 4: I was trying to get hired by, and somehow I
6:52
Speaker 4: played the best golf of my life, and you know,
6:55
Speaker 4: we became, you know, built a great relationship over eighteen
6:59
Speaker 4: holes and again a terrible golf but somehow, you know,
7:03
Speaker 4: when the when the moment rose, was able to build
7:07
Speaker 4: that relationship through that time together, and they saw my passion,
7:11
Speaker 4: they saw my commitment for it, and they saw, you know,
7:13
Speaker 4: what I was doing with the Modular and they gave
7:16
Speaker 4: me an opportunity and you know, forever grateful for that
7:19
Speaker 4: because they Week one threw me in the deep end.
7:23
Speaker 4: They're like, hey, go figure out how to do a
7:25
Speaker 4: nine percent deal in Brownsville, Texas. I had just turned
7:28
Speaker 4: twenty three, and I was like, I don't I don't
7:31
Speaker 4: know where Brownsville, Texas is, but I'm going to figure
7:33
Speaker 4: it out. I'm going to go down there and I'm
7:34
Speaker 4: going to you know, get the lay of the land
7:36
Speaker 4: and see what the city needs. And so I was
7:38
Speaker 4: on a plane six days later, and you know, I
7:40
Speaker 4: was meeting with the city manager and meeting with brokers
7:43
Speaker 4: and driving McCallen and Brownsville, Texas trying to find opportunities.
7:49
Speaker 4: And that's you know, eventually was able to cut my
7:52
Speaker 4: teeth there at that company and work there for six years,
7:55
Speaker 4: and then eventually decided there was you know, I wanted
7:58
Speaker 4: to do things differently and do it a way and
8:00
Speaker 4: with our own way of impact, and that's when we
8:02
Speaker 4: started Holiday Ventures.
8:04
Speaker 2: Two things you said that I find interesting, and it's
8:09
Speaker 2: something that you hear a lot, but I like how
8:12
Speaker 2: you framed it is one you said I just needed
8:16
Speaker 2: to get my foot in the door, and then two
8:19
Speaker 2: you said I just needed to figure it out. And
8:24
Speaker 2: those are sort of like the epic ways for people
8:28
Speaker 2: to learn, for people to demonstrate and get into industries
8:33
Speaker 2: and get promoted and you know, all of these other things.
8:37
Speaker 2: But those phrases really capture the combination of hustle, grit, talent,
8:45
Speaker 2: and timing. And I view those asn't like just such
8:51
Speaker 2: a secret sauce for how people can navigate challenges or
8:56
Speaker 2: how people can start businesses.
8:58
Speaker 3: And this naturely leads me into what you're doing.
9:03
Speaker 2: And I want to talk about the affordable housing development
9:06
Speaker 2: Mastery program and the academy. Why didn't you tell us
9:09
Speaker 2: a little bit about that?
9:12
Speaker 4: Yes, so when we first started Holiday Ventures, really before
9:17
Speaker 4: we did, I had I really had a desire to
9:22
Speaker 4: learn from others. I wanted to continue my education and
9:27
Speaker 4: not just within real estate, just with all aspects of life,
9:30
Speaker 4: with entrepreneurship, with impact, with helping others and learning from
9:34
Speaker 4: successful people. And I used basically a tool that I
9:39
Speaker 4: knew could get me into the door speaking of what
9:42
Speaker 4: we were just talking about, like and that was a podcast,
9:45
Speaker 4: you know, just like we're talking today. I realized I
9:49
Speaker 4: saw others doing it where you could have conversations with
9:53
Speaker 4: amazing people and people that may not otherwise give you
9:57
Speaker 4: an hour of their time. And so I I had
10:01
Speaker 4: met this venture capitalist and basically, long story short, I
10:05
Speaker 4: really wanted an excuse to keep talking to him. But
10:08
Speaker 4: it was just a short conversation, and the idea of
10:10
Speaker 4: a podcast had been playing in my head. And so
10:13
Speaker 4: I'm in the car with my wife and I'm like,
10:16
Speaker 4: I really want to talk to him, Like maybe I
10:18
Speaker 4: mentioned that I have a podcast, and I had no podcast,
10:22
Speaker 4: and I was like, you know what, I'm just going
10:24
Speaker 4: to say it and see what he says. But I
10:26
Speaker 4: was so nervous, I was like sweating. I'm like, you know,
10:29
Speaker 4: I'm getting like a little shaky just thinking about that.
10:31
Speaker 4: Moment because it was like such a nerve wracking moment,
10:34
Speaker 4: but I shot my shot and he said, yeah, I'd
10:37
Speaker 4: love to you know, love to be on here's my
10:39
Speaker 4: card with my cell phone number. I was like, oh, man, okay,
10:42
Speaker 4: I need to make a podcast now. And so that
10:46
Speaker 4: kind of snowballed into creating a very successful real estate
10:51
Speaker 4: and entrepreneur impact podcast called Monumental. We did almost two
10:55
Speaker 4: hundred episodes and it was it was an amazing opportunity
10:59
Speaker 4: for me to not only my network, it was my
11:02
Speaker 4: like I call it my personal NBA because I learned
11:04
Speaker 4: so much from it and it built my brand as
11:08
Speaker 4: you know, an authority in the space and being able
11:10
Speaker 4: to help and share information and give, you know, share
11:14
Speaker 4: that knowledge with others in our audience. And so from
11:17
Speaker 4: that podcast, I had people reaching out to me all
11:20
Speaker 4: the time saying, Hey, Evan, I love what you're doing,
11:22
Speaker 4: Like I want to do what you're doing with Holiday
11:25
Speaker 4: Ventures and helping other people through housing and through real
11:28
Speaker 4: estate investment and doing it through affordable housing. But I
11:31
Speaker 4: don't feel like there's a great place to learn that,
11:33
Speaker 4: Like where can I go to learn? And I and
11:36
Speaker 4: I didn't. I was like, I don't know. You know,
11:38
Speaker 4: you could go to certain conferences, but they're a little
11:40
Speaker 4: high level for somebody that's just getting started that doesn't know,
11:44
Speaker 4: you know, the terminology, or doesn't know where to get started.
11:47
Speaker 4: And so, you know, at the encouragement of my wife,
11:49
Speaker 4: who is a life coach, she said, why don't you
11:52
Speaker 4: Why don't you coach people? Why don't you share your knowledge?
11:55
Speaker 4: You know, you know so much about how to put
11:57
Speaker 4: together deals, and these people want to know and you
12:01
Speaker 4: could help encourage and coach them through that process. And
12:03
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, let's do it. And it kind
12:06
Speaker 4: of same thing. We pitched it before we even had
12:10
Speaker 4: the program, and we had people join and they were
12:12
Speaker 4: so excited about joining. It was like, okay, well now
12:15
Speaker 4: they've joined, we need to we need to create the program.
12:18
Speaker 4: So that was end of twenty twenty when we first
12:21
Speaker 4: launched Affordable Development Mastery and we had our first cohort
12:25
Speaker 4: go through in twenty twenty one. It was a twelve
12:28
Speaker 4: month program that basically takes people from you know, they're
12:32
Speaker 4: successful in real estate, have had success in other capacities
12:36
Speaker 4: within real estate, but want to make the leap into
12:38
Speaker 4: impact driven real estate investing in real estate development through
12:42
Speaker 4: affordable housing, and we really look for people like who
12:47
Speaker 4: are who have that impact driven mindset And it's amazing
12:52
Speaker 4: how many people are out there that want to learn
12:55
Speaker 4: this craft and want to be a part of the
12:56
Speaker 4: solution to solving the housing crisis, but just don't don't
13:00
Speaker 4: know where to get started or don't know where to
13:02
Speaker 4: break through the barrier of the high barrier to entry
13:06
Speaker 4: to get in our business. So we had a twelve
13:09
Speaker 4: month program. We had you know, basically sixteen different video
13:12
Speaker 4: modules with all the steps of everything that we did.
13:16
Speaker 4: We were basically an open kimono of just sharing everything
13:18
Speaker 4: that we did to create thousands of units of affordable
13:22
Speaker 4: housing and that were impact driven and sustainable in design
13:26
Speaker 4: and development. And we had guest experts come in. We
13:29
Speaker 4: had attorneys, we had property management, we had debt and equity,
13:32
Speaker 4: We had council members like every aspect of the development process.
13:36
Speaker 4: We had those speakers come in. And then we also
13:39
Speaker 4: had you know, group coaching calls on an ongoing like
13:42
Speaker 4: bi weekly and monthly basis where we check in, you know,
13:45
Speaker 4: people bring up deal issues and we group coach and
13:49
Speaker 4: then I also help give feedback from my perspective as well,
13:53
Speaker 4: and then we also did a in person three day event,
13:57
Speaker 4: so we had them tour properties, everybody get to meet
13:59
Speaker 4: each other at the again meet a great person, and
14:05
Speaker 4: it was you know, we didn't know what to expect.
14:07
Speaker 4: I mean, we didn't know what to expect going into it,
14:09
Speaker 4: and we ended up having crazy demand. We had twenty
14:12
Speaker 4: five people joined the program from all over the country,
14:15
Speaker 4: and we have people today that are doing multiple deals
14:19
Speaker 4: or have completed multiple deals to this point because of
14:22
Speaker 4: that program. We had one lady who had never done
14:25
Speaker 4: affordable development won a grant from Enterprise for a female
14:32
Speaker 4: developer of color. I think it was a four hundred
14:34
Speaker 4: thousand dollars startup grant that she won while she was
14:38
Speaker 4: in the program. Oh great and basically utilized. You know,
14:41
Speaker 4: we wrote her letter of support and she had the
14:43
Speaker 4: program as kind of her foundation, and she shared a
14:47
Speaker 4: lot about that in her application and that really helped
14:49
Speaker 4: her be able to win that application of that grant,
14:52
Speaker 4: and that was the seed capital. Now she's working on
14:54
Speaker 4: her her third development right now.
14:57
Speaker 2: I mean it's a master's course in how to do things,
15:03
Speaker 2: but it's also a nudge and an affirmation for people,
15:06
Speaker 2: and I think that is you're creating that space by
15:10
Speaker 2: which they can be nudged to take the next step.
15:14
Speaker 3: And you know, when you.
15:16
Speaker 2: Go from you know not to not to you know
15:19
Speaker 2: sort of like play this down. But you know, when
15:21
Speaker 2: you go from high school to what your next step is,
15:25
Speaker 2: you know, everybody's asking what are you gonna do?
15:27
Speaker 3: Where are you going, you know, going into trade school, vocational?
15:30
Speaker 3: Do you have a job where you gonna call it?
15:31
Speaker 2: You know, like everybody's asking the question, but then it
15:34
Speaker 2: sort of drops off and so but you know, like
15:37
Speaker 2: if you're a professional in the industry, you know, where's
15:40
Speaker 2: the where's the nudge question? Like, Okay, are you starting
15:43
Speaker 2: your business? You know, are you gonna go out and
15:45
Speaker 2: do development? And that's a huge leap.
15:49
Speaker 3: And but if.
15:51
Speaker 2: You're you know, if you're dreaming it or if you
15:53
Speaker 2: have the skill set for it, like where is the nudge?
15:57
Speaker 2: And so, you guys are creating a platform that's doing
16:00
Speaker 2: more than just the edge.
16:02
Speaker 3: You guys are really really being able to.
16:04
Speaker 2: Support people and create the environment to do that. And
16:08
Speaker 2: that is amazingly impressive. It also echoes to how you
16:12
Speaker 2: first got started to doesn't it.
16:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know, I'm sure you see this
16:18
Speaker 4: a lot too. It's just there's kind of the old
16:21
Speaker 4: guard of development has been so tight knit, closed lips,
16:26
Speaker 4: you know, doesn't want to share because of fear of
16:29
Speaker 4: competition or fear more people getting into affordable housing. And
16:32
Speaker 4: I don't think everybody has that mindset, but I think
16:34
Speaker 4: there's a lot of old guard that does have that mindset.
16:38
Speaker 4: And I feel like there is to have an abundance
16:43
Speaker 4: mindset in terms of like if really our big, hairy,
16:48
Speaker 4: audacious goal as a company. In my own personal goal
16:51
Speaker 4: is to solve or help in solving the housing crisis.
16:55
Speaker 4: And I know that Holiday Ventures and Evan Holiday are
16:58
Speaker 4: not going to do that alone, and so I want
17:02
Speaker 4: to And I know that I have really valuable information
17:05
Speaker 4: from my experience and my exposure from my mentors and
17:08
Speaker 4: the deals I worked on, and so I want to
17:10
Speaker 4: be able to pass that on to the next generation
17:13
Speaker 4: of developers. And I feel like, you know, my parents
17:16
Speaker 4: instilled me from early age, like, you know, help others,
17:20
Speaker 4: love others, take care of others, and so that shows
17:23
Speaker 4: in what our work is. But also realizing like we
17:27
Speaker 4: can help other people do this too, and we can
17:29
Speaker 4: expand our impact tenfold instead of trying to do it
17:33
Speaker 4: all ourselves.
17:35
Speaker 2: And there's not a lot of people doing that, and
17:37
Speaker 2: we're losing a lot of that institutional knowledge as that
17:40
Speaker 2: old guard is sort of transitioning over too. So I mean,
17:45
Speaker 2: I think of Ron Turlwigger with the Bipartisan Housing Center.
17:49
Speaker 2: You know, he's one of the few that has created
17:52
Speaker 2: a forum by what they are passing on that knowledge
17:55
Speaker 2: and they are identifying goals and objectives and they're button
18:00
Speaker 2: is passing.
18:01
Speaker 4: Over right right.
18:02
Speaker 2: He's one of the few ones that's out there other
18:05
Speaker 2: than you guys. So a great job on that. Let's
18:09
Speaker 2: talk about some of the development deals because you have
18:13
Speaker 2: Stonebridge Lofts and the Samaritan Recovery Project.
18:17
Speaker 3: I believe we're two that really caught my eye.
18:20
Speaker 2: But tell us about those and then, you know, feel
18:23
Speaker 2: free to add some more. Now we talk about the
18:26
Speaker 2: nets and bolts of holiday ventures here.
18:30
Speaker 4: Yes, so Stonebridge Lofts, this was is a three hundred
18:35
Speaker 4: and eleven unit affordable community based in Goodletsville. It's the
18:39
Speaker 4: suburb of Nashville. And really this one's pretty unique in
18:43
Speaker 4: a couple different ways. One is we have a pretty
18:46
Speaker 4: strong amount of retail. We have eleven five hundred square
18:50
Speaker 4: feet of retail on the first war and so we're
18:54
Speaker 4: currently filling those spaces, but we have a nail salon there,
18:57
Speaker 4: we're talking to a coffee shop, we're talking to early
18:59
Speaker 4: learning center. Trying to figure out ways that we can
19:02
Speaker 4: provide truly that live, work, play all in the same community.
19:08
Speaker 4: And above and beyond that, we wanted to figure out
19:11
Speaker 4: a way. This is a suburban style community with a
19:14
Speaker 4: standalone clubhouse, and we wanted to find a way to
19:18
Speaker 4: push the envelope of sustainability. And so we have this
19:21
Speaker 4: beautiful five thousand square foot clubhouse with really tall ceilings,
19:25
Speaker 4: beautiful building, but we covered the roof in solar and
19:30
Speaker 4: so that that solar array goes one hundred percent into
19:34
Speaker 4: three Tesla powerwall batteries that we have inside the building,
19:38
Speaker 4: and that building is one hundred percent powered by that
19:41
Speaker 4: solar So it powers up the batteries during the day
19:44
Speaker 4: and then the batteries power it at night. And that
19:47
Speaker 4: was important for us because we wanted to show that
19:50
Speaker 4: almost like as a pilot of saying like, look, you know,
19:53
Speaker 4: as far as I know, this is the first one
19:56
Speaker 4: hundred percent solar powered clubhouse in Tennessee. And we just
20:00
Speaker 4: we wanted to push the envelope. You know, there's sustainabilities
20:03
Speaker 4: a lot more at the forefront on the coasts, but
20:06
Speaker 4: here in the Midwest, it's you know, trying to figure
20:08
Speaker 4: out in the Southeast, trying to figure out, like, how
20:11
Speaker 4: do we help push the envelope towards sustainability. That's a
20:14
Speaker 4: big also another part of our mission, and so using
20:18
Speaker 4: that as an example was important for us. And we
20:21
Speaker 4: even have a solar education center inside the clubhouse because
20:25
Speaker 4: we wanted to show like, look, real time data. You
20:28
Speaker 4: see the solar coming onto the solar panel, or the
20:30
Speaker 4: sun coming onto the solar panel going into the battery,
20:33
Speaker 4: and it gives you that real time data. So a
20:35
Speaker 4: kid that lives in our community can go up to
20:37
Speaker 4: the screen and see with you know, an educational plaque
20:41
Speaker 4: right next to it explaining exactly what's going on in
20:44
Speaker 4: Layman's terms. So hopefully that it can expire inspire you know,
20:48
Speaker 4: some of our community to you know, consider or think
20:52
Speaker 4: about sustainability. And that was also Amazon's first investment with
20:59
Speaker 4: a private investor in the Nashville market with their housing fund,
21:05
Speaker 4: So they invested a little over thirty one million dollars
21:08
Speaker 4: into Stonebridge Lofts. So it was really a major investment
21:13
Speaker 4: for Nashville and a major commitment for Amazon in affordable
21:17
Speaker 4: housing in the market. And so it was a real
21:19
Speaker 4: domino for the market. And then you'd asked about Shelby
21:24
Speaker 4: House and Samaritan Recovery Community. This one's a really unique
21:28
Speaker 4: one because it came about by a nonprofit who owned
21:34
Speaker 4: a full city block right almost close to downtown Nashville
21:39
Speaker 4: views of the skyline. You know, you could walk to
21:41
Speaker 4: downtown or so close. But they they were turning people away.
21:48
Speaker 4: They were a substance Boose recovery nonprofit. They'd been operating
21:51
Speaker 4: for almost sixty years. But their buildings were dilapidated. They
21:55
Speaker 4: were all outdated. They were pretty much functionally obsolete, and
21:59
Speaker 4: they needed to either tear them down or you know,
22:02
Speaker 4: start new. But they constantly had a problem of they
22:05
Speaker 4: didn't have enough beds. You know, they had tremendous need.
22:08
Speaker 4: They were really good at what they did, but they
22:10
Speaker 4: had to turn people away because they didn't have enough capacity.
22:13
Speaker 4: But they didn't know how to fundraise. They hadn't fundraised
22:16
Speaker 4: in decades. They had relied on federal and state grants
22:20
Speaker 4: and so they didn't understand that part of it. And
22:24
Speaker 4: it basically got calls every day from markeer Y developers
22:27
Speaker 4: wanting to buy their land and pay them top dollar,
22:30
Speaker 4: but they wanted them to move off campus, and you know,
22:33
Speaker 4: they wanted them to move off and they just said,
22:36
Speaker 4: that's non that's a non starter. Like we have to
22:39
Speaker 4: be near the core of Downtowent's where our clients are,
22:42
Speaker 4: That's where the people we serve are, and so they
22:47
Speaker 4: It basically came about through a conversation where like, hey,
22:49
Speaker 4: like this could be potentially be affordable housing with a
22:52
Speaker 4: new recovery center, and so we were able to basically,
22:56
Speaker 4: you know, play tetris with their site of a little
22:59
Speaker 4: bit of their land that was unused and be able
23:01
Speaker 4: to leverage the value of their land, plus the ability
23:05
Speaker 4: to leverage state, local, and federal grants either for recovery
23:09
Speaker 4: or also for affordable housing, and were able to build
23:12
Speaker 4: them a new facility that was more than double their capacity.
23:16
Speaker 4: We took them from fifty beds to one hundred and
23:18
Speaker 4: thirty two beds and their new building as state of
23:21
Speaker 4: the art building. As soon as they moved in it's
23:23
Speaker 4: almost two years ago now. As soon as they moved in,
23:26
Speaker 4: they won two new grants for new services, totaling two
23:30
Speaker 4: point three million dollars of grant funds. And a big
23:34
Speaker 4: reason behind winning those grants was because one they had
23:37
Speaker 4: the capacity with their new facility, and two they had
23:40
Speaker 4: momentum and a lot of energy behind what they were
23:44
Speaker 4: doing and everybody saw it now. Because of the brand
23:47
Speaker 4: new building and next door, we were able to create
23:51
Speaker 4: one hundred ninety five affordable units from thirty to eighty
23:54
Speaker 4: percent AMI and creating a bridge between those going through recovery.
23:59
Speaker 4: Those that graved wait through the recovery program and are
24:01
Speaker 4: ready for some independence can then move into our most
24:04
Speaker 4: deeply affordable units at the thirty percent AMI level with vouchers.
24:09
Speaker 4: And so that was phase one, and then once we
24:13
Speaker 4: moved them into the new building, we were able to
24:15
Speaker 4: tear down their old building and we're currently building out
24:18
Speaker 4: Phase two, which is another two hundred and eighty nine
24:21
Speaker 4: mixed income units.
24:22
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's beautiful. I mean, both of those
24:25
Speaker 2: projects are amazing. And this second one really fascinates me
24:30
Speaker 2: because there are exactly what you describe nonprofits that are
24:36
Speaker 2: trying to focus and deliver their mission, but they don't
24:39
Speaker 2: know how to make the next level jump right, right,
24:42
Speaker 2: And I guess we could say it's another nudge factor, right,
24:46
Speaker 2: like you guys, we're really able to step into that gap,
24:51
Speaker 2: but not just like provide for them. But you're you're
24:54
Speaker 2: doing more affordable housing, you're doing mixed income, and I'm
24:58
Speaker 2: sure this surrounding neighbor and I'm sure that those surrounding
25:02
Speaker 2: businesses are thrilled with the before and after picture as well.
25:07
Speaker 2: Was there anything that was a obstacle that you know,
25:13
Speaker 2: you were confronted with in that particular project that you
25:17
Speaker 2: I mean with every development project, I know there's one
25:20
Speaker 2: that you just said, how are we going to jump
25:23
Speaker 2: this hurdle?
25:24
Speaker 3: So what was that maybe? And then how did you
25:25
Speaker 3: guys jump the hurdle?
25:27
Speaker 4: Oh man? So I think Shelby House associated. I think
25:30
Speaker 4: we must have had like thirty of those hurdles. We
25:34
Speaker 4: it was the project was started in late twenty nineteen
25:38
Speaker 4: in terms of predevelopment, so we went through the ringer
25:41
Speaker 4: with COVID. Also, a week before COVID there was a
25:45
Speaker 4: major tornado that hit Nashville, and this was like three
25:49
Speaker 4: or four blocks away from our site, So you know,
25:53
Speaker 4: between the tornado and between COVID, a lot of the
25:57
Speaker 4: you know, and a lot of the public funding that
25:59
Speaker 4: we were already talks with, like a tiff for example.
26:02
Speaker 4: Ye you know, we had political momentum for a tiff
26:04
Speaker 4: and then COVID and Tornado happened, and then that just
26:07
Speaker 4: went out the window. Everybody's like, that's not priority right now.
26:09
Speaker 4: We got a bigger things to solve, which I totally understood,
26:13
Speaker 4: but it just was a major headwind for us. And
26:17
Speaker 4: so trying to figure out, you know, between that and
26:20
Speaker 4: you know, all the all the impact on construction pricing,
26:25
Speaker 4: construction materials. I mean, there were so many twists and
26:29
Speaker 4: turns in our capital stack. We went from tiff to
26:33
Speaker 4: no tiff, to no project based vouchers, to project based
26:36
Speaker 4: vouchers too. By the end of it, we had sixteen
26:40
Speaker 4: different funding tools or grants or credits that were combined
26:47
Speaker 4: to make that development possible. We we literally turned over
26:50
Speaker 4: every couch, cushion and seat share that we could find
26:53
Speaker 4: to make that development work. To overcome a lot of that.
26:56
Speaker 4: I mean, we to give you one example. So we
26:59
Speaker 4: closed in December of twenty one, and we finally got
27:02
Speaker 4: our capital stack right, and uh and January, the r
27:09
Speaker 4: GC calls and they're like, hey, you know, we had
27:11
Speaker 4: an allocation and allowance for lumber and we're now we're
27:15
Speaker 4: now a million over and we're like, okay, well let's
27:18
Speaker 4: maybe it'll come down.
27:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, and technically nothing changed, but price, like, you know,
27:23
Speaker 2: yeah change you guys weren't changing specs yeah.
27:26
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was yeah yeah, And so we we
27:29
Speaker 4: decided to wait. It was at a million, we decided
27:32
Speaker 4: to wait. It went up to two point one. We're like,
27:35
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, we just lost another million one within
27:38
Speaker 4: a matter of weeks, and our contingency was five percent
27:43
Speaker 4: was two point three million. So within two months of
27:46
Speaker 4: the project starting, we had wiped out ninety percent of
27:49
Speaker 4: our contingency with a lumber buyout, which added no value
27:53
Speaker 4: to the building. So it was a lot of twists
27:57
Speaker 4: and turns like that. We had major supply chain is
28:00
Speaker 4: choose throughout construction. You know, project was delayed significantly. But
28:04
Speaker 4: I think one thing that I will say was was
28:07
Speaker 4: helpful throughout this process was one we were you know,
28:12
Speaker 4: we did not give up in terms of figuring out
28:14
Speaker 4: new funding sources. Like even during construction, we found an
28:18
Speaker 4: additional we applied for or were granted another six million
28:21
Speaker 4: of grant funding that we didn't have in our cap
28:24
Speaker 4: stack before. And then we were also had great partners.
28:29
Speaker 4: I think that's super important with all the twists and turns.
28:31
Speaker 4: We had a really great co development partner in Evergreen
28:34
Speaker 4: real Estate, and then also our nonprofit partner was you know,
28:38
Speaker 4: willing and able to you know, stomach all the ebbs
28:41
Speaker 4: and flows of development. And then also we had great
28:44
Speaker 4: public partners. A state agency helped pitch in part. You know,
28:47
Speaker 4: part of that six million was from the state agency.
28:50
Speaker 4: We had additional funding come from Metro, additional fund income
28:53
Speaker 4: from the housing Authority. Like everybody stepped up because they
28:56
Speaker 4: knew this was not something that we brought upon ourselves.
28:59
Speaker 4: It was exterior. So it took all of that to
29:03
Speaker 4: come together. But but now it's a it's a finished
29:07
Speaker 4: product and is really helping a lot of lives. Now.
29:11
Speaker 2: I had a high ranking person ask me a couple
29:15
Speaker 2: of months ago. They said, you know, and they were
29:18
Speaker 2: talking about the affordable housing crisis, and they said, you know,
29:21
Speaker 2: I'm hearing that you know, developers. You know, this is
29:26
Speaker 2: a huge generalization question, but I'm hearing developers or having
29:31
Speaker 2: a hard time building fast enough because of regulations, And
29:36
Speaker 2: I said, that's a little bit true. Yes, we need
29:40
Speaker 2: to make it easier, still compliant, but yet easier.
29:45
Speaker 3: But then I went on to talk about more than
29:48
Speaker 3: just that. But how would you you know?
29:51
Speaker 2: Is there a particular bottleneck in the process that you think,
29:58
Speaker 2: you know, if you were going to waive the developer
30:00
Speaker 2: wand here, that you think should be happening or should
30:05
Speaker 2: not be happening, Like what is it going to make
30:07
Speaker 2: what is easier for you guys to build more, build better,
30:12
Speaker 2: build faster? Is there a particular thing that you could
30:15
Speaker 2: point to or a series of things?
30:17
Speaker 4: How much time do we have? Right? Yeah, so many things,
30:22
Speaker 4: I think you know, like you alluded to, there's no
30:25
Speaker 4: silver bullet. It's going to take a many, many different approaches.
30:30
Speaker 4: But I've made content about this on YouTube, and I
30:33
Speaker 4: love talking about this because I think there's so many
30:37
Speaker 4: different angles. But I think it comes down to a
30:39
Speaker 4: couple different categories. I think it comes down to the
30:45
Speaker 4: front end, the pre development process and throughout that process,
30:49
Speaker 4: like that is the riskiest portion of development, and that's
30:53
Speaker 4: what discourages new development is the amount of risk and
30:57
Speaker 4: time usually equals risk. It's time and cast is you know,
31:00
Speaker 4: your two biggest risks, and so how do we minimize
31:05
Speaker 4: cost and how do we minimize time on the pre
31:08
Speaker 4: development side, because that is that is the impetus or
31:12
Speaker 4: that is the hurdle to getting to the actual construction
31:15
Speaker 4: of new units, which that's a whole nother bucket, but
31:18
Speaker 4: just focusing on pre development, I think it's its zoning
31:22
Speaker 4: we have to think. You know, I know cities and
31:25
Speaker 4: states are now actually taking some are taking pretty massive
31:28
Speaker 4: action on this. You know, you see Florida doing their
31:31
Speaker 4: Live Local Act. You see Texas having recently passed something
31:35
Speaker 4: last summer similar to that. You see Montana doing it.
31:39
Speaker 4: You see cities doing it all over where they do
31:42
Speaker 4: by right zoning for more density on single family lots.
31:46
Speaker 4: We see like in Nashville they just passed you know,
31:49
Speaker 4: you can have a single stairwell. You know, we previously
31:51
Speaker 4: had two stairwell requirements for small multifamily and it's just
31:56
Speaker 4: cost prohibitive, right, So if you only have twelve units,
31:58
Speaker 4: why would you build two staircase And it's it's proven
32:02
Speaker 4: that it's no more or less safe than as long
32:07
Speaker 4: as it's sprinklered. The sprinklers usually are the most safe
32:11
Speaker 4: part of it. So it's looking at like stairwells, it's
32:13
Speaker 4: looking at setbacks, it's looking at zoning. I know California
32:19
Speaker 4: just passed and this was in one of my videos.
32:21
Speaker 4: It's like, we why don't we incentivize development right next
32:24
Speaker 4: to transit and why doesn't the federal government say, hey,
32:28
Speaker 4: if you want our federal transit dollars, then in order
32:32
Speaker 4: to get that, a preemptive thing that you which need
32:35
Speaker 4: to check the box is have by right higher density
32:39
Speaker 4: mixed use and allowing multi family near transit stops. And
32:44
Speaker 4: it's just things like that. It's just common sense, right,
32:46
Speaker 4: at least to most people, that seems like common sense, like, hey,
32:49
Speaker 4: if we're going to have transit, then we should probably
32:51
Speaker 4: have a little bit more people living neither. And usually
32:54
Speaker 4: we're only putting transit on what is already a major
32:57
Speaker 4: corridor already, And so thinking about how do we do
33:01
Speaker 4: common sense things that align with where a community is headed.
33:07
Speaker 4: If we have strong leadership from the council members to
33:10
Speaker 4: the mayor, to the governor to even at the federal
33:13
Speaker 4: level to look at how do we do and also
33:17
Speaker 4: in a lot of cases we don't have to reinvent
33:19
Speaker 4: the wheel, like there are states out there that are
33:21
Speaker 4: already doing this. It's just getting some of the states
33:25
Speaker 4: that are a little slower to adopt, getting them you know,
33:27
Speaker 4: up to the plate where the other states are already
33:30
Speaker 4: already working. So I think that's you know, zoning for example,
33:35
Speaker 4: that can cost us eight to twelve months of development
33:38
Speaker 4: time and so those are an additional eight to twelve
33:41
Speaker 4: months that we don't that we can't create more units,
33:44
Speaker 4: and that's an eight to twelve month window of high
33:47
Speaker 4: risk and we're spending one hundred to two hundred thousand
33:51
Speaker 4: dollars on arctects, on engineers, on surveys, on the zoning
33:55
Speaker 4: and so that is a massive high barrier for any
33:58
Speaker 4: developer to go after. And it's an opportunity cost where
34:02
Speaker 4: you spend time rezoning, you don't spend time building more units.
34:06
Speaker 4: And so I think that is number one is figuring
34:09
Speaker 4: out the pre development cycle of how do we lower
34:12
Speaker 4: the barrier for zoning, lower the barrier for use of
34:15
Speaker 4: more sites. And that includes infrastructure, like making sure cities
34:18
Speaker 4: infrastructure is lined up. You know, we had to on
34:22
Speaker 4: one of our most recent projects, like inherit an infrastructure
34:26
Speaker 4: project for the entire neighborhood, and they said, well, it's
34:29
Speaker 4: just whoever develops the next area has to pay for this.
34:31
Speaker 4: I'm like, but we're using four percent of the new capacity,
34:35
Speaker 4: why are we paying for such a high percentage of it?
34:38
Speaker 4: And it's just things like that that just don't quite
34:40
Speaker 4: make sense. That end up, you know, cost the project
34:44
Speaker 4: in an extra million and a half dollars, so we
34:46
Speaker 4: didn't have any budget and so and then you're asking
34:49
Speaker 4: for more grant funds from the city when in essence
34:52
Speaker 4: you're kind of like you're paying the city in one
34:54
Speaker 4: hand and you're asking for more funds than the other hand.
34:58
Speaker 4: It just seems like they're smarter ways to attack where
35:00
Speaker 4: we can be holistic in our infrastructure and holistic in
35:03
Speaker 4: our zoning so that we're not create we're creating less
35:06
Speaker 4: barriers at the local level in the state level to
35:09
Speaker 4: allow for more development on the front end.
35:12
Speaker 2: And then every time you layer another piece of that funding.
35:15
Speaker 2: I've heard people call it the funding lasagna. Every time
35:18
Speaker 2: you layer that, you're also delaying it and adding more
35:22
Speaker 2: costs and complexity too. So there's another piece of that.
35:26
Speaker 2: In the example you listed. You know, when you go
35:29
Speaker 2: back and you're like, okay, now now I need more
35:32
Speaker 2: you know whatever it is, CDBG, infrastructure money, you know,
35:34
Speaker 2: whenever you're like, okay, now here we go. Now I've
35:37
Speaker 2: just added more time, I've added more regulations exactly, et.
35:41
Speaker 3: Cetera, et cetera.
35:42
Speaker 2: So that's some that's some good insight because to the
35:48
Speaker 2: novice mind, you you want to just say, well, hey,
35:53
Speaker 2: you know there's land, Hey, there's underutilized land, you know, go.
35:57
Speaker 3: Out and build it.
35:59
Speaker 2: And they're looking to developers to solve it. And developers
36:04
Speaker 2: are exact echoing exactly what you just said.
36:08
Speaker 3: So and I like the zoning piece of this too,
36:10
Speaker 3: because you.
36:11
Speaker 2: Know, the local control can be your uh biggest impetus
36:21
Speaker 2: for doing the deal, or it could be the thing.
36:24
Speaker 3: That kills it, doesn't it.
36:26
Speaker 2: And we don't usually like to, you know, highlight how
36:30
Speaker 2: much influence those local zoning boards are quite frankly, so
36:36
Speaker 2: I appreciate you bringing that into the conversation as well.
36:41
Speaker 3: And it you know, it does place.
36:42
Speaker 2: Some burden on somebody outside of DC to solve this,
36:46
Speaker 2: doesn't it.
36:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's that's probably the hardest reason why.
36:52
Speaker 4: You know, it's not a it's not a fix all.
36:54
Speaker 4: Every community is different, every neighborhood's different. But at the
36:59
Speaker 4: same time, we need we need leadership at every level.
37:03
Speaker 4: So how do we do that at scale? And how
37:05
Speaker 4: do we do that quickly? Because we're already behind you know,
37:08
Speaker 4: seven million plus units, So how do we get all
37:12
Speaker 4: these different communities and all these different localities. Yeah, act
37:16
Speaker 4: in a big enough manner that actually helps address the
37:20
Speaker 4: root issue of just not creating enough housing.
37:25
Speaker 2: So one final question, because I think we could go
37:27
Speaker 2: on here for two hours, because this is fascinating to me,
37:32
Speaker 2: but I'm curious, do you see your model being able
37:38
Speaker 2: to be expanded or replicated nationally. I know you've got
37:44
Speaker 2: your target markets here, but what you know if you're
37:49
Speaker 2: going to vision cast for the future or nudge as
37:54
Speaker 2: we've been saying right other regions.
37:58
Speaker 3: Would you like to talk about.
37:59
Speaker 4: That for a minute. Yes, Yeah, we we've really honed
38:05
Speaker 4: in on exactly the type of development and the type
38:08
Speaker 4: of impact we want to have through OA developments. Here
38:10
Speaker 4: in Nashville. We've done over twelve hundred units today and
38:14
Speaker 4: really gotten a great track record here. But looking at
38:18
Speaker 4: like our big, hairy, audacious goal is to create or
38:22
Speaker 4: preserve one hundred thousand affordable units, and which is a
38:27
Speaker 4: massive you know, it's kind of a crazy goal, but
38:30
Speaker 4: I think that's what helps push us, myself and our
38:33
Speaker 4: team to be able to see like, hey, if we
38:36
Speaker 4: really want to help solve this housing crisis, we have
38:39
Speaker 4: to be thinking at scale. And also for us, you know,
38:42
Speaker 4: our model is not built on cookie cutter. We don't
38:46
Speaker 4: want to make the same building in the same place
38:49
Speaker 4: or put it all over the country. We want to
38:51
Speaker 4: make it so that each development has some aspect that
38:55
Speaker 4: is unique to that community and listens to the community
38:59
Speaker 4: and addresses whatever their specific needs are. And so that
39:03
Speaker 4: is where I think we'll find It will be the
39:06
Speaker 4: hardest part of us being able to replicate this, but
39:09
Speaker 4: I think that's the problem that I think is most
39:11
Speaker 4: exciting for us is figuring out how do we replicate
39:15
Speaker 4: at scale but make each community unique and address the
39:19
Speaker 4: needs of that community and work with local partners like
39:21
Speaker 4: nonprofits to help provide the services. And I think that's
39:26
Speaker 4: that's what's been fun throughout this is figuring out a
39:29
Speaker 4: scalable uniqueness. And so we're actively working on our next
39:34
Speaker 4: development in Columbus Ohio.
39:36
Speaker 3: Oh, great, great community there.
39:39
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, we're super excited about that. And I'm originally
39:43
Speaker 4: from Cincinnati, so we'll probably be looking across Ohio and
39:48
Speaker 4: really throughout the southeast in North Carolina, South Carolina and
39:51
Speaker 4: Georgia as well. But really I think long term figuring
39:54
Speaker 4: out how do we take this to this model to
39:57
Speaker 4: every community across the country and work with local partners
40:00
Speaker 4: to help make that happen excellent.
40:04
Speaker 2: Well, we wish you godspeed on getting to those one
40:06
Speaker 2: hundred thousand units, So thank you for your time.
40:10
Speaker 3: Again, I've been talking with.
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Speaker 2: Evan Holiday, the founder and CEO of Holiday Ventures. Evan,
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Speaker 2: we appreciate what you're doing and look forward to hearing
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Speaker 2: you guys accomplish those next phases of future growth.
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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me on, Katie.
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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Change Makers with Katie Gore. To
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Speaker 1: find out more about Katie, go to quadel dot com.
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Speaker 1: That's qu A d E l dot com. This has
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Speaker 1: been a production of Forbes Books Radio