Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 12: Adversity Awakens Greatness: How John Spender Turned Rock Bottom into Global Impact
Transcript
- JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: What if the story you've been hiding is actually the key to your next level of success, impact, and freedom? This episode's guest is an internationally acclaimed filmmaker, thought leader, and founder of the number one international bestselling book series, A Journey of Riches, a global platform amplifying transformational voices and stories of human potential. His work centers on one enduring theme, the power of adversity to awaken greatness. His documentary, The Gift of Adversity, received worldwide recognition, earning Best Inspirational Film at the Titan International Film Festival, Best Feature Documentary Awards across India and Europe, Best First-Time Director at the Portugal Indie Film Festival, Best Documentary at the Madone Film Festival in Sicily, and finalist honors at the AME International Film Festival featuring renowned voices, including Jack Canfield, John DiMartini, Michael Beckwith, Marcia Colossi, ⁓ Kay Doran. The film explores how life's greatest challenges can become the catalyst for purpose, leadership, and lasting impact. Through film, publishing, In global collaboration, John continues to build a body of work dedicated to elevating consciousness, inspiring resilience, and redefining what it means to turn struggle legacy. welcomes John R. Spender. John Spender: Hello, thanks for having me. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: welcome. I'm very excited to have this conversation. Can't wait. John, you've built a global platform around one powerful idea that adversity can awaken greatness. Let me ask you this. Was there a specific moment in your life where adversity stopped being a setback and became a turning point? John Spender: There certainly was, I had an epiphany. was Australia day, 2010, January 26th. I was at the Bondo Hotel and I used to take recreational drugs ⁓ the time. And well, the weekly kind of like catching up and having a few beers, whatnot. And I remember coming out of the bathroom ⁓ and I ⁓ I despise what I was doing. looked myself in the mirror and there was a lot ⁓ and self-hatred and self-loathing. I made a decision to in the mirror and do whatever it takes to ⁓ to get to reach my full potential, to really get the most out of myself. And I signed up for a year long coaching program I cold I never touched cocaine. I was the first person capable of actually doing that all those years ago, 16 years ago. And that was a real turning point for me. No matter what I've been through, emotional, physical, sexual abuse, that I was going to utilize the other side of that, the resilience, the determination, the tenacity to actually do something meaningful with my life. and I sold my landscaping business at the end of that year, while I was transitioning into coaching and the coaching started to take off and that's when I saw the landscaping business and then I an opportunity to run NLP trainings in Southeast Asia, mostly in Singapore for a US company. Neuro-Linguistic Programming was the modality that I was teaching. And so I met a ⁓ mentor And she me move my a face-to-face coaching practice online. And she said, well, it'll just be a standalone coaching program. Whatever the book is part of it, and that's where Journey of Riches started. And we launched the first book in 2015. And so it's been over 10 years of publishing that series. And out of that series, the film that you're alluding to earlier, Richard Canfield, Michael Bernard Beckworth, Dr. John De Martini, Marcia Kaye, May I have a... JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: I want to go back to that because what a moment that was for you to look at yourself in the mirror. Now, ⁓ most people experience adversity and they right? They just shrivel away in that. But not you. You've built a whole career helping people expand ⁓ because of it. What did you understand that moment that people miss? John Spender: Yeah. But there is an equal or greater opposite of anything that you're experiencing. There's not a one-sidedness to your experience. Most of the time, we're just seeing it from one perspective. And that perspective is very disempowering. And it leads to a whole spiral of habits of thinking behavior that don't serve you. And rather than asking yourself more empowering questions, like, how did this serve me? You have to step up to become. What is the hidden hit in this challenge? Who I have to be? And so the more empowering questions that lead to empowering responses. there is, it doesn't always feel so great. But once you get past that, you start to see, wow, okay, it's given me resilience. I didn't give up so easy this time. And if you calibrate a lot of the things that you'd say were really bad or you're a victim of this or that, you're able to see the other side of it, there's an empowering perspective there if you're willing to explore and look for it. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Right, I want get back to a little bit of who was John these awards, the film, the global recognition, who were you before all of this? John Spender: I was a bit of a thrill seeker, a traveler. I love traveling, summer traveling. I've been, overseas every year since 2002. I was a landscaper, so I really enjoyed horticulture, outdoor spaces, making them practical. And I've had a fun sense of adventure. And so I like water sports, surfing, the outdoors, and culture. like just experiencing different cultures. So that's pretty much me in a nutshell. I had a reader, because I was a little trip tour was nine, 10 in Australia. And I was considered learning disabled, dyslexic, so many different labels, too many to that I can recall. And I just didn't let those things define me. And I had a second grade teacher who brought my difficulties to the attention of my mom. She'd gone through an unanswered divorce. So she was like, raising three kids of our own for a while and then I ended up getting tutoring, after school tutoring and that was another real turning point to me and fell in love with reading. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: basically you ⁓ a regular guy with a regular life. You're just not this mystical individual. You happen to identify something that most of us miss. you're like one of us. And I think that's helpful because that gives me little hope that I can change my life. But was there ever a moment where you almost didn't pursue what you're doing today? John Spender: I guess so. was ⁓ mean, I mean like one, ⁓ one different and it's completely different reality. I almost didn't go to Bali. And so ⁓ because Yoko Chini initially the pay like non-existent. So it just like, okay, go along, help build this startup. And then, you know, we'll see what we can scrape together in terms of remuneration. And so that was a big risk. I'd actually never, I done some volunteer work and things like that. But in terms of like, like helping business and being one of the trainers and getting them set up in Southeast Asia, essentially. I found this online. um, astrologer. I used her before when I was at a crossroads. And so all you do is you just send your date of birth, time of birth, place of birth, and that's it. Um, and that's just on an online form. And then she sends you this whole, this is back in 2012, the end of 2012. And you just get this whole like typed out sheet about who you are. And it just, you know, when someone just shares truth with you and you can just feel it. she was saying things about me and she said, well, I know you like adventure ⁓ travel and there's gonna be an opportunity that's gonna come up. It might not be the amount of money that you want, but say yes anyway. I just see that you're gonna be helping a lot of people, good are gonna come out of it. So if an opportunity comes up to go overseas, take it with both hands. I never told her about this, I never said a word. Place a birth, time a birth, you know, that's pretty much it. she came out, I knew I had to say yes then. So yeah, if I had not believed in myself or believed her, then yeah, wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: And that was that turning point there. what inspired you to create the gift and adversity? John Spender: Yeah. The gift of adversity inspired was from the book series, Journey of Riches when we were launched. It was the first one and the second one. And I was just meditating on the beach. Actually, prior to that, in 2011, was at a, J. Harvey, who's in the film, I was at one of his events, one day events. And I was speaking to his wife and she's like, well, what do you want to do with yourself after turning this event? So I want to make a film bigger than The Secret. And this is back in 2011. I completely forgot about it. I was meditating on this is after we've realized a couple of the books, it was the end of 2015 and I was on the beach. And then this idea came to me that why not make a film about that? That there's a benefit to having challenge in your life, that adversity actually can be a good thing. And I didn't have any context or anything like that. So I had this idea that I was reading You Can Grow Rich at the time. That was my carry around book. And so at the end of that book, Napoleon Hill was talking about creating an imaginary council. These were thought leaders and people who have just something amazing that has impacted humanity ⁓ and in such a positive way. And so I went home and made a vision board and just had Canfield, Dr. John D. Martinini, Dr. Victor Hansen, Tony Robbins, Wayne Dyer, Cheryl Richardson, all those different thought leaders. And I having these imaginary council meetings. And then after a while, the personalities would come up. I don't know if it's my imagination. It kind of felt like I was having a telepathic communication. Then after like, well, good four to six weeks of doing this, Michael was really excited one afternoon. He's like, we've got to make this happen. We're talking too much about it. We've got to make it happen. And in my mind, he was very animated. And just for a moment, this is it. imaginary conversation. was just kind of, it felt so real, felt so apathetic. ⁓ said, I the vision, like, let's make it happen. And I was a little bit confused and went, well, how? He said, just come over to Agape ⁓ and come together, you'll see. So I decided that I should go over to Agape. I told a really good friend of mine, ⁓ he's the States. I met him at a training a few years before. And I told him and he said, go for it, go for it. What have you got to lose? Just act as if, maybe don't tell everyone, you know, anyone else that you're having a measure of the conversation. If you want to make sure that everyone believes in the project, you know, just go on, just go along and act as if. And so that's what we did. We acted as if it was happening. I turned up, I out, over with a DP. And my actual US buddy in LA, he had his girlfriend ⁓ up with us, ⁓ his ex-girlfriend, but they were still really close. And ⁓ had a background in film, so she became the assistant. And she was just stoked to be part of it. We walked through, it was like Sunday, February 14th, early the morning, and it was California weather. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Well. John Spender: cool and fresh, there was just clear skies, sun coming through the pear blossoms. And it was just this magical moment. And the DP starts taking photos. And then we hear this, what on do you think you're doing? And I like this spiritual bodyguard, like all in white with a gold sashay comes over. goes, don't have any media passes. He made us delete all the photos, all the stills from the camera. And then he turned to me and said, well, so why are here? And so I just told him the vision for the film that there's you know, it's a bit having challenges in your life, good things can come out of shitty experiences. And he's like, wow, okay, that's interesting. Follow me, I'll introduce you to Jacqueline Brown. we followed him, and she said, that's the power of under we create here. Welcome home. We're going to organize you VIP guest passes. then she introduced me to Jacqueline Brown, who's the assistant, direct assistant to Michael. We met Michael afterwards and then week later we were filming him. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Wow. featured names Jack Canfield and Dr. Martini. I mean, what do they have in common when it came to overcoming adversity that you found during your interviews? John Spender: They had a vision. They had a focus of what they wanted. They knew that it wasn't the end. Michael talks about entertaining the word possible. Is situation, is the solution out of the circumstances you find yourself? ⁓ Is possible that you could find a solution? And holding that vision, holding that word of possible. And he shared so many different experiences of where he had to hang on to that word possible and maintain essentially having a vision of something greater than these circumstances. And I feel that that's a key distinction is holding a vision greater than the current circumstances. That's what they all have in common for sure. They have a vision for themselves. They're on their worth and what stand for, even if things don't go their way. know that maybe it's leading to things, yeah, leading to something better. And so it's not something to be afraid of, it's something to almost celebrate or to welcome with a clear ⁓ mind. I'm seeing both sides of the coin, so to speak. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: And I'm sure the having a vision applies to either your personal life and I would imagine this also applies to your business we work with businesses and we're doing and you're saying well you doing ⁓ are you a business or a personal coach? You say you always start off as a business coach, but always end up as a personal Because the businesses are very often a reflection of what the CEO or the business owners are putting out. And that's their reflection. So sometimes we have to work more on the personal side than we have to do on the business side. So that's very true. So what do you think that some people break under that pressure while others build something extraordinary like you did? John Spender: Yeah. Yeah, so true. Well, it's like a muscle. So to have that level of fortitude, resilience and tenacity, you need to work at it. It just doesn't happen overnight. And I don't believe there's no real overnight successes really that last a long time. You speak to any overnight success and they tell you about the proceeding, the 10 years beforehand It's a step-by-step process and just go to the next step in front of you. That step is going to get you out of your current situation, even just a little bit, and take that step. Then get a foundation from there and then take the next step, and then the next step, and the next step, and the next step. And many small steps, you can travel a long way. You can move through challenges, but it doesn't happen overnight. it's most of the time, it's a step-by-step process. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: That's right, a marathon starts with the first step. ⁓ Is adversity for greatness or can someone just achieve it without going through that hardship? John Spender: I don't know of anyone. I haven't heard of anyone. mean, you think of Tom Brady, he's won like six championship rings I mean, he struggled to get on the side to make the NFL. He really struggled. He was like the third quarterback and there was a number of ⁓ injuries he finally got his opportunity. He was renowned for his work ethic and not non-quick attitude and just his bulldog tenacity, but he wasn't considered a natural quarterback at all. And now looking back in history, he's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. so ⁓ was a lot of adversity that he had to go through to get there though. He wasn't this star quarterback or everyone just thought he was going to be the greatest thing ever. No, he had to work through it. And then just by him sticking to his vision and process, an opportunity opened up. But he basically was showing up every day, going through the trainings and, being one of the hardest trainers there apparently, his work ethic is incredible. I mean, you think of Michael Jordan, another great in sports. you think Louise Hay that did great things in the personal development ⁓ movement. I mean, she didn't really make a name for herself and build one of the largest publishing companies in the world until she was 58. And there was a lot of adversity that she moved through. So I've met actually, I published like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of stories and I've never met a person hasn't gone through some form of adversity to get where they are now. And I feel that that just, you expand, it grows you. And it doesn't mean your challenge is getting less. You're able to actually, what was maybe like a 10 challenge is now only a level five challenge for you. And now, currently, your level 10 challenges, ⁓ if keep working through them, you show up, you see it for what it is, not more than what it is, you're grateful for ⁓ the things your life. and you just keep that due diligence of that consistency showing up, showing up, then those challenges end up being level seven challenges. ⁓ so you grow, it's not necessarily your challenges get easier, but become better. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Yeah, and sometimes I think that we don't see challenges because they're personal challenges that they go through and I think Everyone has a challenge of some sort ⁓ Sometimes we diminish it or sometimes make it bigger than they are as you mentioned But ⁓ I totally agree. I think everyone has whether they're publicly known or not So one thing is for entrepreneurs who are ⁓ How should they reframe setbacks like losing money, failed deals, or that uncertainty in their business? John Spender: Lessons, lessons to be learned. What's the lesson to take from that? Why are you losing money? Is it lack of resourcefulness? Did you not have a strategy? You need to get to the root cause of it, right? Otherwise you could unconsciously recreate it. So you need to reverse engineer the problem and then look, well, what's the habit behavior that created the circumstances in the first place? And so if you can create a circumstance that led to failure, you can actually also do the opposite. And the two are kind of on the same line really. And so the thing is to fail so often, and the mentor said this to me, fail forward, don't let it hold you back. Don't let it then become timid and not to take a chance on yourself anymore. No, learn the lesson from the experience. Go back to the root cause and then use that, use that as fuel. Be grateful for it. If you can't be grateful for it, then you're resenting it. You can't learn from anything that you resent. So if you can appreciate it, then it can be healed. You can use it to propel you forward. got to get back to that. You've got to get to the root cause. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Absolutely. this question is, ⁓ think is very fitting for you because you've ⁓ traveled and spoken to so many different people. ⁓ How do you say to business owners who use as a advantage? How can they use it? John Spender: Well, what did the adversity teach you? Who did you have to become? Did it build your resilience, tenacity, resourcefulness? lot ⁓ successful entrepreneurs, they're incredibly resourceful. They're used to just finding themselves, ⁓ way shows in a lot of way. They're basically explorers and pioneers of new frontiers. mean, think of the founders of Airbnb. They just started with their mattresses. on their rented apartment, you know, going to some convention and there was like a limited accommodation. so you can leverage your challenges for you. They're not something that's in the way, there's something that's on the way. That means you can take something from those challenges. Life is here to serve us. You know what I mean? If you can't use your adversity, then you've got to really look at your limiting beliefs. Why can't you see this really terrible thing? Why can't you see it as something that was actually for you? And I find that everything in life is for us. It doesn't feel like it when you're going through it. It can be incredibly painful. And you can feel like a victim and that life's against you. But if you're able to see the other side of it, How was this a benefit? How could this possibly serve me? You did it give me, has it given me determination? And it's helpful to have someone else to help you see it from a different perspective. And if you can change your perspective and you can change the meaning that you're to it, and when you can change the meaning, ⁓ then you can change basically the way you see it. And then if you can change the way we see it, then you can choose an empowering meeting. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: great advice. ⁓ back to this, ⁓ is a Journey of Riches and what made you want to build it as a global platform? John Spender: The Journey of Riches really came from that have richness in our life at any given moment and beyond monetary richness. know, richness of connection, richness of culture, richness walking, know, a sunset, the richness of smelling a rose, the richness of holding with someone that you're madly in love with, the richness of swimming in the ocean, there is just so much richness happening right now. Sometimes it just takes us to stop and just notice your surroundings coming to the present moment and you'll see a richness of reality unfold before your eyes. And so a Journey of richness, it actually was a Journey to Riches, but I thought that that presupposed that something was missing. But actually there is nothing missing really. It's a perception that says there's something missing. We have everything we need inside of us. And so the series is a Journey of Riches and richness in a multitude of things. So richness of a rice field, richness of travel, of ⁓ dinner when everyone's still jelling and falling asleep. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: great. John Spender: So Journey of Riches, that's pretty much how it got started. That there were so many different stories around it. And being a coach and listening to people's challenges and what they'd moved through on the strength of the human spirit, I there's an incredible richness in that as well. ⁓ I was doing a lot of coaching ⁓ that time. And so it just seemed like, yeah, it stuck ⁓ it wouldn't go away. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: So is the collection of books interviews with individuals? Are you co-writing with others, co-authoring with others? this process? John Spender: ⁓ a co-author book. So we have 12 to 15 authors per book. Each their own chapter about a particular theme, their life experience, their Journey relating to the power of self-belief or their of the wisdom of authenticity or your inner knowing. any number of of building resilience, power of inspiration. So many different, like personal development things. And so writing about that particular thing from their own personal perspective. So that's essentially it. And we've had authors from more than 50 different countries contribute to this series so far. We've had more than 500 collaborators and we're up to book 48 now, almost 50. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: If someone feels like their story isn't big enough, would you say to them? I think when I was watching your film is that sometimes we make things a little bit than they really are and consumed by it. But then the opposite is also true for some people where they don't it's big enough. It's big enough ⁓ ⁓ write a story John Spender: Get a mouse. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: with John Spender because probably they can't provide that lesson for someone else. What would you say to them? John Spender: My experience, Joe, or people that have actually said, well, why would you want me to go to school? I don't have anything that people would be interested in. And I know then that they've got an incredible power and story. It's just a matter of digging a little bit deeper. one of the things I do is like a timeline and just ask them, okay, ⁓ what does ⁓ becoming creator of your life mean to you? And then this amazing story comes to the forefront. like, I thought you said you didn't have anything to write about. And so it's just a matter of just doing a little bit of excavation, one or two questions, and sure enough, a story just comes to the forefront. I had one particular woman that said that, and it turned out that she was a widow and her Journey with her husband who had this debilitating disease. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: you John Spender: and how she had learned to be there with him, the whole story of how they met, then having two children together, and how when she was going through the tough time of the burial and the funeral and so on and so forth, how the community came together through the hat around and made sure that she didn't go without, the needs were met. And so it just was this whole, I can't even, incredibly... painful but also incredibly empowering experience for her. She was like, well, if I can do that and survive that, I can do anything. But she just wasn't really looking at it that way. Part of it was she was looking at it loss. Part of it, she wished her partner was still there. And part of it was like, well, life happens. And she just never thought that she was. And now she's gone on to write several of her own books. She's a coach, she gives talks and she's in Florida and yeah, it's quite extraordinary. And she started out, I don't have anything interesting to share. So I'll hear it a lot. And it's just another little bit of excavation. Probably that thing that you went through, you feel the knowledge interested in is there's whole, almost like a Pandora's box to explore. that will not only heal and liberate you to another level, but also those reading it as well. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: That's true. our lives are made up of different seasons ⁓ and not spring and beautiful ⁓ all time. Sometimes we have those ⁓ very, harsh winters. If someone right now is going through one of the hardest seasons in their lives, what would you them to hear from you? John Spender: that it is a season, that it's not gonna last forever, that it will pass. to be proactive to, ⁓ what this thing ⁓ this that you're finding so challenging, you know, what could it be leading you towards? And look recalibrate the experience ⁓ and to, I think so often when it appears like things aren't going our way, that We don't have anything to offer or we're not of value. Now find that it's very important when you feel like that to do an inventory of all the different things, highlight reels and things that you've moved through in the past. You know, when you were 15, what was the biggest thing that you had to move through? What were some of the challenges you're going through at that age? What about when you were 20? What was the big thing? What about when you were 25? And just do a timeline. It's almost like you're taking an inventory of all the different times that you became bigger than that challenge that you were facing. And if you've done it before, it just builds confidence, builds belief, it builds trust in yourself. That you've been through all these different challenges before and you're still going. And so why is this experience any different? sure it feels terrible and bad, but even just what are three things you can be grateful for? So going through doing the take of you doing a reflection all different times that you ever overcome the challenges that you were faced with. And so you've done that before. then ⁓ Also, what are some of the, about your value and your worth? How much have you already invested in yourself? Maybe this one thing's not going as you expected, ⁓ ⁓ loved passed, or just something happened that in your eyes in the present moment, it really feels like a catastrophe. And rather let it beat you down, you could even then at your value and worth. How many hours have you spent doing, how much money have you invested in personal development training? How much time have you invested in yourself so far? And ⁓ looking at in terms of like hours and monetary value, that can also help as well. So anything that's gonna raise your self-worth, help you change your perspective that you know what, you've overcome challenging things before, ⁓ is this anything different? and looking for the lesson, you know, and a vision, where would you like to be, you know. I find that people that move beyond where they are, don't, basically, don't see this as their reality, it's just where they are now, it's not their end reality. And a reminder that it isn't just the season, and this is the season to get really focused, to get really clear, on what is it that you do want. What do you want to track more off and to get, you when we're in challenging times or, you know, things aren't going our way, quote unquote, then that's the time to get laser focused. You know, what is it, get super clear on what is it that you do want in your life? What do you want to stand for? What's your mission? Who do you want to become? You just get super clear on that. You know, don't stare at the closed door. Don't... We look at the rain and expect it's going to be like that day after day. what we focus on expands. Imagine seeing the sun come through the clouds again, so to speak. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Absolutely, and good or bad, this too shall pass, right? So it's good, enjoy it, and when it's bad, just know that the good is coming soon. So if you had to give someone a simple ⁓ framework, few steps on how to adversity ⁓ into what would look like? John Spender: Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Adversity into opportunity. it an opportunity because it does get you super, for in my experiences when I've gone through an adversity, I've gotten really clear on, ⁓ what is that I want? What is the How do I overcome it? How do I move through it? What is it teaching What are the lessons? has gone through a reformer and made it through the other side. Maybe you might read their autobiography, know, ⁓ success leads clues. Tony Robbins says that a lot and it's so true. ⁓ that we can learn from other people. You one of the things ⁓ I before was creating imaginary counsel. And I imagine these people telling me, we're wasting and seeking belief into me. ⁓ And... You can do that too. You know, if you don't have a lot of resources, you know, there's YouTube videos, there's podcasts, you can access them for free. And so it's never been easier to transform adversity into your greatest blessing. there's a lot of solutions out there. There's a lot of people that have moved through challenges and the history is full of them. why not do revolutionary? Go to local library. and look at some inspiring biographies. I guarantee one common thread through them is that they've moved through adversity that they never thought that they would move through. the people, all the greats, anyone that's done anything meaningful in their life, anyone has moved through some form of adversity and then taking that and reflecting, what, that worst day that I experienced is now one, ⁓ is blessing. If I didn't go through that, I wouldn't have what I have today because it forced me to focus, it forced me to get clear on who I am, what I stand for, what are my values, why am I here, and to create deeper levels of meaning in their life purpose get super passionate and driven and determined and focused. yeah, there's just so much good. And watch the film, ⁓ gift in adversity. It's just full of stories that people have overcome, you know, in life and never thought, you know, they would amount or contribute meaning to life. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Absolutely and watch the film more than once. That's one recommendation I have. I've already watched it once. I loved it. I think it's great, but I'm thinking I have to go back and watch it again and take more notes. Sometimes it just needs a few more times to sink who you are so it becomes part of you. Really does. ⁓ So John, who should be reaching out to you and how can they connect with you? John Spender: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, anyone that's got a story to share or thinks they don't have a story to share reach out to me. at AJourneyofRiches.com on my website JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: John, thank you so much for the great conversation. It was really inspiring. ⁓ John Spender: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I know that, you've had your fair share of challenges and I really appreciate that, yeah, you're living your mission and purpose of raising awareness around entrepreneurship and offering people solutions. JOE ABREU - GLOVISOR: Absolutely. Well, thank you again. Till the next one.