Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Maggie Rose

Transcript

Maggie Rose · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: My guest today is Maggie Rose, who's got a new album,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Half Moon. Maggie, listening to the album, you're seen as
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: an Americana Nashville artist, but it seems closer to London
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: than Nashville, closer to Olivia Dean than Ella Langley. Can
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: you tell me about this?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I can agree with that for sure. Um, I moved
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to Nashville in 2008, and I've gone through a bit
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: of an evolution, sonically. But I think, you know, this record,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I wrote it with pretty much the same two writers,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: also the producers of the record, Lawrence Rothman and Daniel Tashian.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: And it's just kind of cool to be in this
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: little brain trust. But it was very brill-building, kind of inspired.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: And I do think.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe if I weren't from Nashville, I probably wouldn't get
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: categorized in the spaces that I do. I think that
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: that's due to the region that I make music in
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So do you believe you're haunted by misperception?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. And I think I've always been maybe
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: making a little hard for myself and the people who
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: advocate for me to, come up with a really clear,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: concise elevator pitch. But I think it's also because I've
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: been doing this for a little while now and I
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: had to kind of get free from the trappings of
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: commercial country radio and where that put me at the
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: outset of my career. There was a template that I
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: had to kind of follow and I moved here as
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: a teenager and I think I was very willing to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: be like a hardworking, obedient artist who kind of went
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: with the guidelines that were set forth. And when it
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: turned out to be just so difficult, like the inequity
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: of just women to men on country radio and that
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: whole thing with Keith Hill when he said women are
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the tomatoes to the salad of country radio and made
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: it very clear that the trends just.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Weren't going in my favor.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I'm actually crediting that moment for having directed me towards
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: the music that I'm making now because I was able
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: to just make music without abandon. So I think that
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: there's a combination of just the history of what I've
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: released and first impressions and also the fact that I
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: am part of Nashville.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: And I think this community has.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Evolved so much and the growth of Nashville has correlated
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: with my evolution of sound and who I've been able
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to collaborate with but there's still associations that people just
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: make inherently when they hear oh she's from Nashville so
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: must be Americana or country adjacent and I play the
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Grand Ole Opry all the time too so there's there's
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: a just a lot of signaling that might make people
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: have a first impression without listening to the album or
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: coming to a show.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Well, listening to the album, you could be the new
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Brandi Carlile if people just heard it.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: That's so nice of you. She's a big inspiration for sure.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm serious. Brandi Carlile had a song.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: She'd been in the marketplace for a while. She had
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: a song called The Joke. People heard it. People heard
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: her voice. If people listen to your record, I mean...
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: It's not that it's easy listening, but it's easy to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: listen to, and no one else is making this record.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: As I say, it's not quite Bonnie Raitt on one extreme.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: It's not quite Rootsy in that manner, and it's not
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: quite English Soul, but if people only heard it, they
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: would love it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get people to come into my world.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: I think we.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Been very proud of the fan base that we have
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: built because it feels meaningful and sustainable. And we get
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: people that come to a show and they are repeat customers.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, they come back and they travel with us.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And I think we've built something that's really sustainable. But
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think that the business model in Nashville has
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: really been able to aid my exposure. Just I think
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I've gotten from a lot of executives over the years
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: that They love what I do and they love my voice,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: but they just don't know what to do with me.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I just, after living in Nashville for 18 years, was
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: for the first time nominated with the Americana Awards as
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Emerging Artist, which was a nice honor, but also kind
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: of there's comedy there because emerging would feel like synonymous
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: with new artists. But I suppose it was just the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: significance of my last record. receiving an Americana Grammy nomination.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: So I think there is a bit of an exposure.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I feel a little undiscovered still, even though we have
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: a nice groundswell and buzz going with what we've been doing.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So how frustrating is this?
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: It's frustrating. I also feel like.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: This is a great time to make an introduction to people.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I think I'm set up for it. And if people
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: even retroactively go back a couple albums, I would say
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: in the last 10 years, I've been on a trajectory
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: that's really authentic to who I am as an artist.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I just did some shows with Chris Stapleton.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: And I feel.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Like he's undeniable. You listen to his voice, it just
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: sends shivers down your spine and it rips through your soul.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: But he had so many years of actually being the
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: writer for all these hits that I feel like eventually
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: record labels wised up and were like, well, we want
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: our records to sound like the demos that we're cutting.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: And he had so many fans. And I think that
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: his mainstream appeal is due to his resilience and the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: fact that he had been relentless. And you hear him
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: and you see him live and it's just something to witness.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to just keep my head down and
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: know that we're getting people to matriculate into what we're
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: doing because they're seeing a bigger picture. They're not just
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: catching a moment of virality or they love this one
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: song of mine. It's usually people who are wanting to
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: find an artist who's making albums. And I still do
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: believe in the album because it's such a bite-sized world
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: that we're in right now. And it's nice to indulge
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: in that longer form of storytelling.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's frustrating.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: A long-winded answer to your question is, you know, I
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: would love that moment to get some meaningful attention from
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: people who want to kind of come into this space
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: with me.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Matriculate. Where did you pull that word from?
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm just rambling.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. I mean, that's a word that
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: for a long time I didn't even know the definition.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: When someone drops out, I say, well, this is not
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the average bear. Are you a big reader? You know,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: someone who says matriculate is not someone living in the gutter.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I love to read. I.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: Love podcasts.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I have my own podcast. I've been on a hiatus
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: since my son was born. But I think in order
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: to be a good musician, you actually need to be
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: a good listener. You need to be voracious in what
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: you're consuming in terms of other people's opinions and perspectives.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: And that is one good thing about the Internet is
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: that we... We have access to a lot of that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: And then we need to be discerning about whether or
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: not we want to absorb and apply those views.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: But, yeah.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And I had a great upbringing and a good education,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: even though I dropped out of college to move to Nashville.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: My parents set me up pretty well.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, got a lot of things going on here. You
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: love to listen. I love to get somebody's story. But
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: do you find... There's not that much reciprocity that you'll
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: sit there and you'll listen to someone, but they're not
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: asking you about you.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Sadly, that is a trend that I think is happening
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: a lot right now. Or their willingness to listen is
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: intense but short-lived. I think that goes back to this
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: whole frustration of, you know, what did you say, haunted
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: by misunderstanding earlier when you asked that question. Yeah, I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: think it's, if they can't figure it out fast, then
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: they move on. And I don't want to be, I
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: don't want to oversimplify myself or my answers. But I
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: think that that is where the questions kind of slow
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: down and people don't know what to do or where
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: to go next.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Well, what kind of person are you in general? Are
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you more internalized? Are you more life of the party?
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: I can do both very well.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: We tour so much, so I think that that is
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: essential to be able to turn it on and be
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the life of the party and energetic and give of yourself.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But then I think there's also some much needed restorative
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: rest that has to follow that. And I don't really
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: get that by taking a nap, but it's more by
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: long walks, listening to albums all the way through and
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: getting into another world that can allow me to escape
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: in a healthy way and recharge.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: So how has your life changed since having a child?
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Just tremendously.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: In this album, I actually started writing with Lawrence and
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Daniel when I was in my third trimester. And we
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: were writing every couple of weeks, so they were very
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: much documenting this experience with me. We probably finished mixing
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: and mastering when my son Graham was about eight months old.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: And I think there was... heightened creativity. It was very
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: inspiring that time. But also through song, I was able
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to untangle and navigate emotions that if I was just
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: writing prose, I would have probably not made any sense.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: But just because there's the assistance of music, it helped me.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And some of these songs, the title track, Half Moon,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I listen to now and it makes more sense to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: me today than it did the day I wrote it.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And I happened to write it two days before my
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: son was born. Um, so I think that there's a
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: scarcity of time that I'm super aware of, and that
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: makes me want to take advantage of the times that
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I do have to be creative and preserve that part
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: of my identity. But I also, uh, do you think
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: it's made me loosen my grip on just like the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: seriousness of.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Career and all of that?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Because I feel like I've been able to strike a
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: balance that's pretty special. And I waited to have my
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: first child. My husband and I were married for nine
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: years before we even decided, okay, this is something we
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: can even dream of pursuing. And that was due to
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: my career. And I didn't want to resent music anymore
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: and forfeit that aspect of my life. So I feel
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: like it's actually made my relationship with my art much.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: More healthy because.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I've realized everything's not going to go away and fall apart.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I do wish that women had more help who want
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: to tour and be at the helm of like a
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: band and all that stuff. But I think every, every
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: working mother would probably feel the same way.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So how did you decide to finally pull the trigger?
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Well, sort of a free fall decision, but also there
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: was a lot of logistics. It's like preparing for a tour.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You need your tour manager to map out every single
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: possibility of how.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: We're going to move him around. And we got a nanny.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Who travels with us and, um, and my band is
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: so patient and, uh, helpful with him. Like they're a
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: bunch of big brothers to him, but I think we had, uh,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: just released my last album, No One Gets Out Alive.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: And it was my favorite thing I had done to date.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And also the album itself is just about not putting
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: off big plans anymore. I had some personal losses that
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I was dealing with. And the title track I wrote
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: with Natalie Hemby and Sonny Sweeney, just about, you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it's sort of now or never. And that was one
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: of the plans that was also lingering there with my
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: husband and I. And, um, We just released the record
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and I had a record label that was seemingly so
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: invested in me and what I was doing.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: And they had the London.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Pop idea with that last album too, but didn't quite
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: have the goods to execute it. They're very Music Row
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Nashville oriented label. I applaud them for their aspirations, but
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: it was fumbled and I was dropped by them three
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: months after the album came out. And then I think
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I found out two weeks later that my son was
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: on the way. And it was terrifying. But I had
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: to just recommit myself to this music. And I got
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: my master's back. And then I just submitted for the
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Grammys because that's what you do when you believe in
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: your music. Or it's one of the things you do.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And I got my first nomination. And I went to
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: the Grammys when I was about eight months pregnant. And...
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: was able to, even with that stumble in the beginning,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: carry through with the project that I really loved. And
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: that was, I think I owe it so much to
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: my son and the fact that this was a responsibility
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: that I now had. He just helped me make the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: most of that season. I think just things could have
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: maybe gone the other way. I could have become bitter
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: or I don't know.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Maybe it made me.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Work harder than I probably ever imagined I would after
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: dealing with something like that.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: So you say that your interpretation of half moon changed
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: after your son was born. Can you tell me about that?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, I hear the song now
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: and he was born under a full pink moon. and
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I knew that he was going to arrive on April 13th, uh,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: which was a full pink moon. I brought that, uh,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: information to my co-writers and we just started thinking about
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: all the analogies of motherhood and what the moon does
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: and how she revolves around something bigger than herself. And
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: she shows up differently every day, but only with the
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: light she's given. And, um, The entirety of her is there,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: but she can't always show that. And she waxes and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: wanes and she returns to herself. And these are all
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: things that I was nervous about and hoping for and
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: was overwhelmed by love and feelings of inadequacy. Like, am
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I going to be able to do all this? And
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: then the first half of the album has a lot
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: of aspirational songs, too, about this fun, revelrous person and
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: there's levity and That was me kind of planting the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: seed that that person will be there on the other
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: side of this. But I don't know if I had
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: to honestly say that I was fully holding all of
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: those thoughts clearly that day that I could say I was.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's almost now in retrospect, I look
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: back and say, oh, I knew exactly what I was feeling.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: That was where I had to put those emotions was
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: into that song of... You know, all these contradicting feelings.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: And even acceptance of this one line in the bridge is, like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I can't give all my love all the time. And
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I have to understand that. Like, there are going to
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: be days where I fall short. And, you know, this
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: is not, like, becoming a mother doesn't all of a
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: sudden just make you capable of constant perfect love for
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: others or even for yourself. And I think there's some
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: mercy in that, and it actually just allows me to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: deal with this all a little bit more gracefully.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: So how'd you meet your husband?
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I met him through music, of course.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: He was managing a songwriter that I was thinking about
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: doing a project with, and we kind of started dating
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: pretty early, and we were trying to keep a secret
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: from everybody, but once we Let the.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Cat out of the bag.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Everyone was already aware that we were in a relationship.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And three months after we got married, we left the
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: company that he was at. And I was looking for
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: a new management with Narvel Blackstock.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: And he was looking for a new position.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And Narvel said, you guys have been doing this pretty
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: much together for the last couple years, just as like
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: an artist-manager couple. So why don't you come over and
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: both of you work with me at Starstruck. And that
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: was 10 years ago or more.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And what does Norval bring to the picture?
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: He's so big picture in terms of what he's been
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: involved with, with Reba and Blake and Kelly Clarkson. And
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I think he makes me dream bigger. And of course he,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I'm in his studio right now. I get to rehearse
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: out of Starstruck. I've recorded a couple albums here. Our
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: bus just got back from New York and we have
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: this place to, you know, put all of our things away.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So there's like the beautiful facility itself, but also Narvel has,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: you know, in these moments where the label I was
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: with shuttered or I got dropped by another deal he's
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: been there to just keep me going and say don't
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: worry about that we're just gonna keep making records and
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: he's function as my record label um on some past
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: projects so i'm trying to do right by him but
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: um He certainly doesn't need me from a financial standpoint.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: He doesn't need to represent me for his monetary benefit,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: but he loves getting to be a part of something
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: like this that we're building and coming by honestly.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, when you were nominated for a Grammy award, What
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: did the label that dropped you have to say?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I think they were happy to see that it happened.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: When I did just sort of tell the story of
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: what happened about being dropped so shortly after, I think
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: some people were mad that I called it like it was,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: but a lot of artists in town were happy to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: hear of it. These things happen. The rug just gets
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: pulled out from under you. The way that I was
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: given the news that I was being dropped was pretty unceremonious.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: It wasn't even delivered to me directly. I had just
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: gotten back from a couple weeks on the road and
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: thought I was enjoying a newly released record rollout.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: And it was over before it even felt like it began.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: But I think....
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think that anyone at that label would deny
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: that they love this project and that I have merit
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and something to offer in terms of the music that
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: we did together. And I brought them that record fully done.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So they absorbed it and helped me release it however
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: best they could. But yeah, it just, it wasn't the right,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was the right marketing team for
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the project.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: This was Big Loud.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So Big Loud, those are the people with Morgan Wallen.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Once they wanted to release the record, your hopes must
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: have been pretty high.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I saw that they had enjoyed some serious success,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: especially in the streaming arena. And just with the way
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: that everything's evolved so much, that was something that I
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: was really hoping that they could help bring to the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: table in terms of weaponry was... getting good playlisting but
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: this is it's all relationships I think there are incredible
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: tastemakers at all these different DSPs but you can kind
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of only talk to who you know and if that's
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the music that you've been giving them and those are
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the relationships you've been working with it might be difficult
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: to hand over something like No One Gets Out Alive
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: and expect them to be able to like meaningfully place
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: it somewhere where it's going to get heard by the
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: right audience.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, the label that released this album I'm not aware of.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me more?
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: My current label?
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: One Riot.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, they are part of Virgin Music Group. And they
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: have a publishing company here in Nashville.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: And they also have a record side.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And they heard about all these happenings with Big Loud
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and No One Gets Out Alive.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And....
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It was right before we actually got the nomination. And
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Holly Lohman, who's my label head and she's such a
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: wonderful teammate, was like, we believe in this record and
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: we know that there's life left in this record. And
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: they were there with me at my first Grammy attendance
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: for the first nomination I got and just really helped
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: me get it. extract as much juice as I could
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: out of what was left of this project. And then
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: we started working on a new EP called Cocoon. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I was actually finishing up Cocoon while Half Moon began
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: to emerge. So there was like two different projects happening
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: at once. But I knew that the album and the
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: sound that I was doing with Lawrence and Daniel was
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: going to be probably the beginnings of the next LP.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned DSPs, you mentioned playlists. Are you a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: student of the game? There are some artists who say,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I just make the music, I have people who handle that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: But now more than ever, there's so much data at
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: one's fingertips if one wants to look at it. You know,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: with Spotify for artists, etc. Where are you on this spectrum?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I'm probably more of the mind that I need to
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: keep my head in the game constantly.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: With the creative side. I mean, I know that there's.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: So much analytical data that I could probably pour over
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and that that is important information, but I think I'm
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: still dealing with the PTSD of early country radio days
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: where every Monday the ads would come in and I'd
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: have to figure out if I still had a record
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: deal next week because of what media base was saying.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So there's, I might have a little data fear. in
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: terms of that kind of feedback. I'm open to feedback.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I want to hear constructive criticism on more the creative side,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I might be a little dataphobe.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: How many labels have you been on?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I moved to Nashville and was signed by Universal
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: for a singles deal. When I was 19, that was
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: assisted by Tommy Mottola, and he was sort of the
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: liaison for me and my early move to Nashville. Then
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I was on Stradivarius and R & J and RPM,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: and all of these were some of the same labels
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: that had been changed while I was attached to it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: So kind of unclear, but I've been around.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Well, did you ever think of giving up?
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Yes. I think sometimes it's felt really frustrating.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: And we both know this is not a meritocracy. So
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: it's not like, here's your ROI.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: You worked this hard.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I will thankfully say that stubbornness and pride may have
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: kept me in the game at times.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Really do love what I'm doing right now. I do
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: love it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is a pretty sweet spot and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I would love a break. I think I deserve one
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: and it would be really cool to have this music
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: at this moment actually be the music that breaks through
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: because I think it's probably the most accurate portrayal of
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: my capabilities and all the collaborations that I've gotten to
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: do over the years have informed choices I made on
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: this record. But yeah, it hasn't been all just fun
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: and light. There's been some moments of just feeling like
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I've attached myself to a sinking ship with the state
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: of this industry.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Okay. How's it worked out financially for you?
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: It's been.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I can say that I have full ownership of
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: what I'm doing and... I can move a band around
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: the country, and we're on a bus, and we're getting
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: some great opening dates. I'm able to do my own
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: headlining tour in the fall. So it's been like a
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: good living. It's hard, and I think having full ownership
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: and being pretty much independent, because even though I have...
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: a label and a team that helps me with this.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: A lot of the bread and butter of what I
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: do goes back to live touring, and that's just all
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: on me and my touring company. But yeah, I think
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: it's been... I'm proud of it. It feels like hard-earned,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and like it's been built in a way that lasts.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: When was the last time you had a day job?
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: It's been... I mean, since I was 19, I guess.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: So since 19, you've been making a living in music.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And when you go on the road, do you make,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's income, but when it's all said
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: and done, is there a profit?
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: But I also think this is maybe a time to
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: invest in what we're doing. And if we break even
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: with some of these bigger looks that we're doing, I
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: have to weigh if it's worth it or not.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, and normally how many dates a year do you do?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Probably 80, about 80 dates on the lower side.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: That's been on average the last couple of years.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: And who's your agent?
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: It's Matt Runner with formerly Wasserman.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: And the team, as they call it. I don't know
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: how they came up with that name. I know those people, but.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: They're a great team.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how long have you been with them?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I think it's been eight years. And they're in Nashville,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I would say. I think it's a fair description to
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: say that they're definitely kind of the left of center team.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: but very effective agency. Like they have Margo price and
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Casey Musgraves. And I think they understand the lane that
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I'm in and how impactful live the live show is
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: to promoting my music.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: How'd you get hooked up with him?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Narvel and Austin. I think they saw that, you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: given just where I was landing and, I have been
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: with all the other big agencies, and I think they
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: did their best, but there was a bit of an
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: interchangeability between me and whatever the other five artists who
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: were on country radio that were women were.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, well, you don't want that.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: You can have this person. And it was just not
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: as thought through at that time. And I do think
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: that's also due to the music that I was making
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: up till that point.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: So it was a fresh start.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: With the team and, uh, much more intentional and strategic. And, uh,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I feel like we, it just was the right time
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: in the right place to make that change. And I
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: think we had the right people take it over.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: So when you go on the road, you talked about
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: opening for Chris Stapleton to what degree do you headline
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: or in a multi act bill? I, um, Probably doing
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: my own headlining shows about a third of.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: The shows that we do a year.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: And usually we try to package that in a season
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: around the release of a project, an EP or an album.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: So what's it like opening for somebody else?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Well, for Chris Stapleton, incredible. His fans, I think, really
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: resonated with our music. He invited me to sing with
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: him at the end of the night two nights ago,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and he He let me just kind of go full
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: sail on Tennessee whiskey, which I would say if I
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: was a fan there to see him sing and someone
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: else came up and took a verse. I don't know
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: if I'd want to hear this person I'm just discovering
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: sing it.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Or they were so wonderfully welcoming. And, you know, he
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: was like, take that.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: One line where he rips it on warm and does
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: the word warm and does the crazy riff.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And they liked what I had to offer.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And like, that's a really cool feeling when you're like, okay,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I'm in this, this is why we do opening gigs
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: to get exposed to an audience who, if they like
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Chris Stapleton.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: They love a vocalist. They love real musicians on stage playing.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: We were just with Lake Street Dive the other week.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I felt that same connection with their fans. The chemistry
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: between those bandmates is.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: So fun to watch.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: So I think you want to be deferential to your
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: headlining act, but I've also learned so much from people
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: that I've opened up for. Melissa Etheridge and Winona Judd
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: just took me out for a couple weeks earlier this summer,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and they are people who have... stuck with it and
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: believe in what they've been doing. And also the new
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: music they're making is great. And they still have this
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: profound love for.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Live touring.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: And even after everything they've both been through. So I
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: like to just be proximate to this resilience. And like
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm a good listener. I like to be
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: a sponge for these people that i'm opening up for
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and watch what they're doing and how they connect with
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: their fans and how they stay keep their head in
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: the game.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: So what are a few things you've learned.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Well melissa told me don't have too many hits and
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: i said no problem we're i'm taking that advice very
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: well but uh you know she i think all of
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: all musicians no matter what generation we come from, we're
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: talking about these things on the periphery that are coming
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and going, like these trends of what we need to
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: do with social media and the fact that labels aren't
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: developing artists anymore and that this song will just catch
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: fire and that artist hasn't ever played like a 30
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: minute set. We lament a lot of these things together.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: But at the end of these conversations, it always comes
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: back to, you know, why do you make it. And
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of these people that I get
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: to tour with are lifers. This is what they're going
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: to do. There's no plan B. They're capable live performers too.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: We always have that to go back to for.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Getting all.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Frustrated about artificial intelligence or, oh my gosh, what's that
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: going to do to music? We know that we have
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: this commodity that is undeniable, which is connecting with people live.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: So I think we try to just, you know, cheer
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: each other up. And maybe it's a little Pollyanna to
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: say that, but I do think that that's not going away.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: And we share in that. And that's why we kind
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: of put ourselves through some of the more fatiguing aspects
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: of being on the road and making music and trying
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: to do it in a climate that is looking for
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: other things.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Okay. It's tough being the opening act. You talk about
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Stapleton and being on stage. You get that imprimatur of
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: success and people are paying attention. Last time I saw
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Stapleton was in an arena, the opening act. God, it
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: might've been Casey Musgraves was like, the place was like
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: a third full. Okay. So how do you psych yourself
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: up knowing that people are not literally there to see you?
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Everybody is open to something good. I've seen a lot
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: of opening acts. They're just going through the motions. Who cares? Okay.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: How do you win these people over?
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I think set list is crucial. You need to understand
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: that That first song might be a burner just while
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: people are finding their seats.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: And keep that in mind.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: You don't perform it with any less gusto, but you
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: might want it to be high energy. And I was
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: opening our Winona Melissa sets with Red Shoes, which is
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: like this very vibrant shuffle from the record. I would
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: love people to listen to it intently, but it at
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: least had that energy to usher people in. And there's
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: always the eye of the storm in the set where
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: you kind of get everyone to, it's like when you
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: whisper and people lean in closer, we have those moments too.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: If we haven't gotten them by that point. And then
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: there's also a cover of I Can't Make You Love Me.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I got to record a version of it with Vince Gill.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty great asset if, People really aren't paying
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: attention because all of a sudden just the familiarity of
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: it grabs them. So usually by that point in the set,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I've got the audience's attention. But if all those things fail,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: then you just have to play for yourself and try
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: and enjoy it and take it as a wonderfully attended rehearsal.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: And to what degree are you accessible at gigs? You know,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: going to the merch tables, signings, you know, vinyl CDs, whatever.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I go to every merch table after every show, opening
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: or headlining.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. You've been at the merch table. Do you start
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to recognize people? Yes.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: There's definitely, we have people that travel and come see
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: us out there live. So I've been starting to recognize people,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: but then also because of the internet. I'm like, yeah,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I recognize you, even though this is the first time
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: we're meeting in person. There's that in-real-life moment meeting.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, and to what degree do you use the internet
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: for your career? Posting on social media, interacting with your fans?
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: You were asking me about studying DSPs and all of
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: those trends and that analytical data.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: I do... try to be consistent with social media because
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I think it is a bit of a rapport.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: There's other people that are expecting like a certain frequency
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: of communication and my music is my bond with in
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: terms of social media and what I'm putting out there.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: That's what I try to showcase the most is live
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: moments or me practicing with the band or just working
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: up harmonies at a rehearsal. I think those are how
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: the song was written and we work with a streaming platform, volume.com,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: where we show live streams of a lot of our shows.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: And that seems to be a way to get really
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: meaningful engagement from people.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: That follow us.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: It's just making sure that we're getting a good production
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: value of a good stream every month so people can
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: see what we're doing out.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: With the band.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: So that we're very active there, but I also have
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: people help me so I can insulate myself a little
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: bit from living on that platform all day and kind
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: of just maybe inadvertently consuming more than I need to
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: be consuming.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: But let's say someone is asking you a question or
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: saying something especially nice What are the odds of getting
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: a personal response from you?
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Very likely.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'd probably take a few days to get back,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: but every direct message is pretty much replied to.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about your band. How long has this
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: band been together?
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: This band, all of its members, probably since Graham was born.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: So 16 months. We had our first gig with Tedeschi
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Trucks when Graham was four weeks old. Wow.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: So I had to get them all rehearsed for that. Yeah,
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: If I do this again, I don't think I'm going
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: to get back out there quite as quickly because that
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: was pretty gnarly and lots of hormones and things going on.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: But Susan was.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Buckling Graham in the backseat after the show. And they're
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: such a great family, like how they treat their band
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: and how they actually treat their literal family is pretty spectacular.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: So that was a nice soft landing, but yeah, that
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: was the outfit that I had, but I've had members
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: of the current band I'm traveling with who played with
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: me for seven years.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Okay. You're not, successful enough financially and you don't tour
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: frequently enough to have people on salary. So how hard
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: is it and how challenging is to get a band
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: or to say, I have the band, but the guy's
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: doing something else for a month?
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I take care of my, I do have them on salary.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Just to be clear, even when they're off the road?
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I haven't really given them a chance to
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: enjoy that aspect of being on salary. We haven't been
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: off the road enough. But yeah, people that are spending
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: their time to be away from their families and help
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: me promote my music. There's so much asked of them,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: especially probably in the last 10 months as we've led
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: up to this new release. So it feels like the
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: right thing to do right now if we can. But
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: then there's also the issue of precedent. So you want
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: to be conservative in helping the people who are working
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: with me plan for their lives as well. So it's
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: a lot to juggle and think about.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Well, you talk about the longest tenure of a band
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: member being seven years. What was it like the 15
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: years before that trying to keep a band together?
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: It was hard. And I mean, I think there's a
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: lot of people who... get so invested.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: They want to be there for that big break in
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: that moment. And it begins as gratitude and excitement and hope.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And then the reality can kind of set in. This
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: is taking longer than I thought. And just COVID was awful.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Like that was really disruptive to so many relationships and, uh,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: personal and professional life because we just didn't know what
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the hell was going on and we'd been touring so
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: much and all of a sudden we weren't and I
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: think people who felt like they had put a lot
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: of time and energy into what I was doing felt
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: like that part had been amputated because of touring and
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I can understand that frustration I think There was nothing
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: that could have been done to really avoid that, especially
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: for me at that time. But it doesn't mean that
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: it wasn't isolating. It was breeding ground for feeling hurt
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: or shortchanged for everybody.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So you're from the Detroit area?
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: I'm from the D.C. area, Potomac, Maryland.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. I thought I'm obviously confused.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Detroit's cool, though. Good music scene.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: But tell me, Marilyn, what did your parents do for
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: a living?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: My dad was in sales. My mom was in, she
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: was a headhunter for a while. And she just retired
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: from Payroll Network, which was overseeing a.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Ton of companies' payrolls.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: And she's developed this software that is pretty clever in
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: terms of employment retention, something that we were just talking
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: about that a lot of people have been having a
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: hard time with since COVID. But they are, they've been
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: traveling to see me at so many shows this summer
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: now that they're retired and they have seven grandkids and
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: they're very much involved in my life, but not musical
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: in terms of your initial question of what they did
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: for a living.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Very supportive of.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Me singing, but It wasn't like I had a family
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: band to jam with, which would have been cool because
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: it seems like all my musical friends in Nashville had
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: a dad who was a banjo player or siblings who
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: would harmonize with them.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: My sisters are lawyers.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: How many kids in the family?
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Three girls in the middle.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And the other two are lawyers?
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. So growing up, was there music in the house?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: There was great music played in the house. But yeah,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was the singer. I was just walking
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: around the house singing all the time, singing while doing homework.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I was in choirs. I went to Catholic school from
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: kindergarten to senior year. So there was always like a
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: church I could sing at. But Catholic music is not
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: necessarily like gospel music. It's a little bit more demure.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: So I got actually connected with a Bruce Springsteen tribute
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: band through a family friend who also was an investor
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: in my music career early on. So his role in
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: my life was very instrumental in me actually being able
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: to make the leap to move to Nashville in the beginning.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: But the Bruce Springsteen tribute band, they were called the
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: B Street Band, not the E Street Band. And we
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: would perform at all these bars on the Jersey Shore.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: And they were 25 years older than me. And I was.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: 16 in a sundress trying to perform with these guys
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: who were just like real professionals, had been doing this
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: and slogging it out for a long time. And they
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: made room for me to open up for their set.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: And I'd sing Linda Ronstadt and Mary Chapin Carpenter and
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Melissa Etheridge. And then I'd sneak in some of my
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: original songs and see how the audience would react. And
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like they were so generous. I think about
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: now at my age, if I was just having this
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: green teenager traveling around with us singing, how I would
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: treat them. And they were so kind and a little
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: tough on me sometimes. They're like, it doesn't matter that
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: you're a great singer. You need to also have songs
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: that connect with people and These people are leaving their
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: work week to come to headliners in Neptune, New Jersey
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: and forget about whatever bullshit they were dealing with so
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: they can escape into music. So I think that kind
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: of made me realize that being a technically great singer
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: is just one very, very small piece of this whole equation.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: And I started writing my own music.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, you were opening for them, but you were also
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: singing with them?
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, they would back me up.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: And Glenn Stewart, who was the front man, he just
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: passed a couple years ago. He looked so much like Bruce.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: He dressed like him. He had the same sunglasses. He
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: had the stance. He would let me take his spot
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: early in the evening and they would back me up
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: on my set of covers and then, you know, the
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: sneaky originals that I get in there. And then he
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: would go up and assume his role as.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Bruce.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: And I watched these like grown men just jumping up
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: and down and crying and dancing to these Springsteen songs.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, this is powerful stuff.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Did you ever take piano lessons or learn to play
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: an instrument?
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, I took piano lessons. I don't, I think my,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I clicked with guitar more because I think the Nashville
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: number system You know what that is. It's like all
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: about relativity. And just the flexibility of that resonated with
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: me more. And my teacher was, my piano teacher growing
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: up was just not a very joyful person. And I
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: think that that kind of maybe dissuaded me from my
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: love of practicing piano. But I do play keys now,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: but it's also more kind of like chordal and for writing. Yeah.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: On stage, I'll play acoustic and electric guitar.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Okay. You're living in Potomac, Maryland. When do you learn
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: about the Nashville number system?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: When I was in the studio for the first time
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: in Nashville, which was kind of a fever dream because
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: I was writing these songs, playing them with a B-Street band.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Then Tommy Mottola was contacted by this family friend who
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: was my investor. They knew each other. It was a
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: six degrees of separation thing. He was like, might as
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: well just try and reach out and see what he says.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: And he heard some of my demos and at least
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: saw something in there that was worth looking into further.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: And I auditioned for him in his office. In fact,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: I was just in New York City this morning. I
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: was like, I auditioned for Tommy Mottola on the top
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: of this building. And he, the whole Taylor Swift of
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: it all was exploding. And I guess something about Nashville
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: felt more wholesome. And that's just where I ended up
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: going with his guidance. And he introduced me to a
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: lot of the producers that I worked for, worked with, um,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: early on and connected with me, a lot of writers.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: And he was sort of, yeah, my liaison to Nashville
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: when I was.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Very, very early on in my move here. And I.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Was in the studio with James Stroud and Brent Mason
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: and watching them jot down these numbers and being explained
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: the art of the Nashville number system.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. Prior to the B Street Band, other than school assemblies,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: were you working at all as a singer?
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: No, not really.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I kind of was writing songs in secrecy. And even
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: on my college campus, I went to Clemson. I was
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: studying music at Clemson. I'd go into my car and
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: I'd take a little mini recorder and I'd drive around
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: and sing into the recorder all these different ideas that
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I had. I was in an acapella group, but like
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: nothing professional. It was.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: All just kind of.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: More just like singing covers and not sharing a lot
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: of my own originality in music in terms of writing
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: and that kind of thing.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Tell me about this investor.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: He is still a very good friend of mine. He's
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: a real estate developer based out of, Washington, D.C., but
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: he's expanded to lots of different states and even here
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: in Nashville now. And I went to school with his son,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: and because I was the singer in our community, I
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: think he also is a musician and wanted to connect
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: me with the B Street Band for an event that
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: he holds, a charity event that he holds every year.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: And he started hearing the songs I was writing and
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: started seeing how I was evolving as a performer pretty
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: quickly with the B Street Band. And I was like,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: if you could do this, if you could move to Nashville,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: would you want to do this? And then when Tommy
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Mottola was facilitating it all and I was making these
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: great relationships in Nashville and putting together some good music,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: I'm proud of the first releases that I made but
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think that now that I've been doing this
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: as long as I have that that's the way that
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: great art is made you know in this pressure cooker
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: with a timeline and you write with these people and
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: you make the studio or you make the album in
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: this studio with this band um it just feels too
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: formulaic but uh you know without his help I probably
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have moved to Nashville as early as I had
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: I do think I would have found my way here
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: or in the industry somehow.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: How much money did he put.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: In? I would say that he put in a lot
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: of money. And some of it was advised by the
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: very well-meaning people, but it was also into a system
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: of country radio, which is fickle and a lot of
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: politics there that maybe.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Weren't the best.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: And did he want his money back?
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he does, but I didn't have any suffering
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: because of it.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: It sounds like he was wealthy enough that no one
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: liked to lose their money, but he could afford it.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he wanted to do Right By Me.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: And then there were other things that got pulled into this,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: you know, this tornado of what we were doing that
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: were other artists and partnerships with other people outside of
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: my music. And he's smart enough that he knew that
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: this was not something that he wanted to do in
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: terms of the lack of predictability in our industry. And
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: our relationship has sustained because I think he believes in
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: what we're doing and why I'm making music. But it
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: didn't have to go that route with country radio and
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: with people who are dead set on only taking this
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: one approach in terms of breaking an artist. It's like
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: there are other ways. And I don't think that he
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: knew that I wasn't thriving and like super happy. in
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: that stream and how we were operating.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: So when did you part ways with him?
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: It's probably been like 12 years now.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. When did you start writing songs?
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I was writing, not songs that I'd ever let you hear,
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: but probably 15 years old.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea what the inspiration was?
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: I think, uh, I've always been an extremely sensitive person,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: and there is some melodrama in some of the first songs.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: I did love.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Linda Ronstadt, and her ability to cover a song and
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: make it her own was always something that I admired
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: a lot. But there was this longing in her voice
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: that I tried to emulate a lot. But the inspiration was,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: I think, just wanting to have something original to say
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: and a place to put these teenage emotions that I
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: was feeling.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: And what kind of kid were you? Were you good
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: in school? Did you play sports? Were you a loner?
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I was popular. I was a social butterfly. I did
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: play sports. I was....
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Always a great student.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: I got good grades, but I feel like around my sophomore,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: junior year, I probably could have focused more on being
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: more studious and not being quite as social and immersed
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: in the trivial things that teenagers get obsessed with.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: Wish I could do it over again a little bit.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: So how long did you go to Clemson?
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: A year and a half.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: You come from a very successful family of two sisters
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: who are lawyers. You say you want to drop out.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: What do your parents say?
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Well, they have a great poker face because I called
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: them and they were not.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Surprised.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: I think they braced themselves because, like you said, that
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: was definitely me deviating from what everyone from my area did,
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: which is go to college and graduate and My sister's
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: case has.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: Become lawyers and they always trusted me.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: And I think that has been a gift that they've
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: imparted on me early on that makes me capable of
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: being at the helm of my organization and what it
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: is that I do. There's a confidence that I've had.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: So they moved me in, and they were very involved
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: in my decision. They were supervising everything that was going
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: on early on, too. They were visiting me in Nashville often.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: And it's not like they were just swept away by,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, he's going to move to Nashville and
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: become a country star like that. They're grounded people. But
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: I do think that the way that everything just came
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: together and allowed me to make this move, there was
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: an expectation that things would just happen a certain way
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: because I had a lot of really powerful, influential people
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: involved in what I was doing that were kind of
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: on board and telling us that that's what was going
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: to happen.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: So this gentleman was keeping you afloat. He was paying
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: the bills.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, he was.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: And universal, uh, for my first release, they were our
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: partners as well. Um, But yeah, there was a label
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: that was basically formed around me and my initial releases
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: that was subsidized by this investor in the beginning.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: So did you ever think twice about dropping out of college? Yes.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I was terrified. And
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: I've just always been a very kind of like obedient
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Catholic school girl. It was like, yes, this is totally.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Going like against like the, the status quo and what
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: we do here and where I grew up. But I,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: I had even professors of mine saying, are you sure
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: you want to do this? And my music teachers who
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: believed in my abilities, but probably were afraid for my, uh,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: There was so much innocence there, too. I think about
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: the 19-year-old that moved here and what I had to
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: learn and how quickly I had to learn it, which
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: is probably why I should have waited and had proper
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: artist development and really gotten to cut my teeth and
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: go play shows in the beginning. That's why I feel
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: like my live music career and that being really such
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: an important part of what I do musically, it didn't
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: really begin until I got out of country. Cause also
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: when you're releasing country music to country radio at that time,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: everything is radio visits and get this program director to
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: add your song. And like, we're going to go to
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: this station and perform for their staff and your success
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: depended on, uh, the performance of this one single. So
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: it just wasn't about making like a fully comprehensive show
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: and putting a set together and having a band that's tight.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: And it just felt like I was so isolated by
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: that process.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: So you're 19, you moved to Nashville. Where do you live?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: What's your life like?
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: I'm the youngest person everywhere I go, seemingly. Nashville was
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: not the town that it is now. But I'm writing
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: with all these incredible writers.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: I was a sponge.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: It's like you play tennis with someone who's much better
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: than you, you're going to get much better at tennis.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: And it just was this immersion into the Nashville school
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: of songwriting. And that's something that I still feel is
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: a building block of my music now no matter how
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: I adorn it sonically there's this regimented approach to keeping
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: that muscle working so I don't ever go long stretches
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: without writing and I have so many people to write
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: for it for my projects I.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: Will probably.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Write everything within a certain timeframe. And I think that
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: lends to the cohesion of the album ultimately, but it's
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: also a great exercise to write for another artist and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: get out of my head and try and facilitate what
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: it is that they're doing for their project. But yeah,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: that was life and kind of lonely, honestly, in the beginning.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: And I felt at times like I had made a
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: mistake and And then I'd look on Facebook at the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: time and see my friends graduating college and getting big people,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: grown-up jobs. And I was trying to figure out what
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: I was going to do next. And I even went
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: through a name change to reclaim my music and my
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: career after those first couple of years. So I'd been
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: going by, I joke, my government name. And I'd released
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: a bunch of songs as Margaret Duranty. And just was like,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: what the hell happened? Like, I was a child, not
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: knowing that at that time I was also going to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: learn so much more.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: And I went by Maggie.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Rose and released my first full-length album and, you know,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: started bit by bit just having autonomy. and getting a
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: little more vocal on my own behalf until just everything
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: came crashing down. This is sort of, I'm not going
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: to make this a long story, but I.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Had- Make it as long a story as it takes.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Well, there was a song that it felt kind of
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: like the last ditch effort to keep that album that
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: had been organized around me together. And it was called
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Girl in Your Truck Song. And this is when Bro
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Country was the only thing happening. And this song was
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: basically like, what about the girl that you're writing about?
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Like the inspiration for this blonde girl that rides in
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: the back of the truck and we're all singing about,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: but you don't hear on the radio. That was my
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: thought process when I cut this song. And I've basically
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: scrubbed it from the internet because I don't, I just,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: it doesn't represent where I am at all. But it
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, this song is testing top five at
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: country radio. We got to release it. And this is
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: going to save everything that we've been working on. And
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: there was probably like 18 people on staff of this label.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: So there was pressure. And I was 25 or 24
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: years old, very aware of the fact that the single
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: had to work or everything was possibly going away. So
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: we released a song and then Maddie and Tay, another duo,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: one of the only other few female acts out at
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: Country Radio at the time, had another song that was
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: a girl in a country song. And they heard that
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: my song was coming out, and they pushed that release up,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: or the powers that be pushed that release up to
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: basically just knock my song out of the water.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: And that was it. The label went away. All the.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Staff that I had arranged around me for so long
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: went away and I was just on my own. And
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: I still had people supporting me and in my corner,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: but just life as I knew it was changing drastically.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: And that's when I just started writing all over the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: place in terms of genre and sound. And I started
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: releasing a song every Tuesday and Maybe I shouldn't have
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: been releasing all of those songs every Tuesday, but it
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: was a great exercise in just liberating myself from this
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: one-track mind of, you have one song for 60 weeks
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: that you're just hammering to death at country radio. And
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: I finally got to show more facets of my capabilities
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: and my musicianship. And it was just a reclamation of
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: what I was doing. And then I finally settled down
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: and I cut an album called Change the Whole Thing
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: here at Starstruck that was completely live it was 16
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: of us all in the studio no isolation booths no
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: more comping everything to death and I actually think that's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: where I learned what kind of live singer I was
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: and just the the importance of the urgency of live
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: music and having all of these people come together and
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: rehearse and how thrilling that was. I've pretty much cut
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: all of my records vocally as live as I can
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: since then. That was the pivotal moment, I think, for me.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Who paid for that? project?
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: I think I did.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Narvel was a huge investor in that in
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: terms of the studio. Yeah, Starstruck Records is what it
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: was released on. Starstruck Records didn't exist before that album.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: But he.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Allowed for us to have a distributor and to release it.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: And it took a long time, but I've finally paid
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: him back for that record not too long ago. So yeah,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: he was my investor too in so many ways. But
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: he loved what I was doing and loves what we
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: are doing and just believed in it.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: So this was before he was the manager.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: He was managing me already at that time.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: Give me the timeline. You hadn't met your husband yet?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: We had. The timeline's all over the place.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Austin and I got married 2016. Started working with Narvel,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: me as an artist, him as a manager, and Austin
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: as manager day-to-day for me and.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: On Starstruck staff.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: In 2016, we started cutting the record early 2017 for
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: Change the Whole Thing.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: So this country period, when does that end? When is
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: your record killed by Maddie and Day and the labels dissolve?
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: That was 2015.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: And you moved to Nashville.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: In what year?
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: 2008.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: That's a long time. January 2008. That's a long time.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Let me go back. You're from a sophisticated area. You're
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: playing in a Bruce Springsteen cover band. Do you like
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: country music?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: I grew up when it.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: Was like the era of the diva. It was Faith
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Hill and the Chicks and Shania Twain. Mary Chapin Carpenter
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: was someone that my mom played a lot. I loved
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: her writing. She was very real to me. But also,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: I think there was something kind of scary about going
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: to New York. I can't go to L.A. Like, I
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: do think that those were factors that played into it.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Just thinking that country and Nashville and the industry would
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: somehow be more wholesome than the alternatives. But it's just
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: like a different kind of messed up, I guess, which
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: I discovered later. Although I love my creative community here
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: in Nashville. I think I have quite a, I'm lucky
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: to be around a lot of the people that I'm around.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: But I think that did inform my decision to move
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: to Nashville was things outside of music too.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: There's a difference living in Maryland and living in Tennessee. Yes.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: There were some days where I really felt out of place.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: And I felt like, what the hell have I done?
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: You know, like, I felt pace was pretty slow in
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: the beginning. It did feel foreign to me in the
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: sense that Tennessee is not a state that I had
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: visited a lot growing up. I had been to South
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Carolina a lot growing up, and that's where I went
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: to college. I visited some of the coastal southern towns,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: but Nashville was new. A lot about old Nashville is
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: really cool, but it is hard to infiltrate.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: There were some.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: good old boy systems that had been longstanding. And there
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: was a club down here. And I felt like sometimes
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: maybe even being the girl who's introduced to that club
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: by an outsider like Tommy Mottola could be stigmatizing for
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: me even sometimes. But everyone was welcoming and I had
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: to earn my spot, I think. I had to show
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: up and write the songs and sing and perform in
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: the studio the way I did to get to stick
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: around here.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: And be accepted. Okay. And I was a Yankee to everybody.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard that coming. You said Nashville has changed
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: since you've come here. It's different. How is it different?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: It's just so much bigger.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the music scene has changed
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: a lot. We're definitely not just known for country music.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: I think some great rock bands hail from here and
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: like the Black Keys and the Americana scene and how
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: it's become more mainstream in some ways, although it's still
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: very much evolving.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: That's gotten exciting. I think the.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: The influx of creatives from LA and New York has
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: made it more exciting personally for me to be here
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: now because I love variety and it reminds me a
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: little bit more of even where I grew up. But
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: I also think that some of the older practices are
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: fading and just getting into a writing room with a
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: couple of people in an acoustic guitar and walking away
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: with a voice memo and not being good enough to
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: know like, okay, I could send this to my publisher
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: and they're going to be able to know that this
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: is a great song just based on this guitar vocal.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: I don't, I don't think.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: That is, that's a little more elusive these days. I
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: think people are creating differently and downtown music, Nashville is
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: basically like the Vegas Strip now. Broadway has become a
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: place for getting drunk and bachelorette parties. And there's all
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: the ways that just the commerce of the town has
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: changed that I could go on and on and on about.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: But I'm speaking more to just the creative side of things.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: And I used to go out every week a couple
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: nights and go to a songwriter's round and just watch people.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: Great writers like at the Bluebird.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I wrote this song today and then you'd hear it
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: like a couple months later having just been cut by
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: someone and like I just I got to see the
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: process really.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: Happening in real time.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Back then and I'm having a harder time finding the
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: pulse of what that is in Nashville today.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: And to what degree Are you networked with other players, singers, musicians?
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Heavily. I think that is one thing I can say
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: I credit Nashville for. And that's also why I think
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: I am so genre transcendent, is the collaborations that have
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: come out of just being in this town. But also
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: touring live, I do... I'm known to sit in with
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: anybody if you ask me. So that's another thing I
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: think that comes with live music. But I'm very connected,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: especially with East Nashville is where I live. And it's,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe a little bit of a quirkier
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: neighborhood than others in our metropolis here. But I go
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: out and support a lot of live music. And I
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: think I live in a neighborhood where we're kind of
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: on top of each other, so we see each other.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: You say you fit in if they ask you. How
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: often do they ask you?
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: Oh, I sit in. So I'll do, at.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: The end of the night if we're out touring and
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: someone asks me, like Chris Stapleton asked me right before
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: I went on for my set to join him for
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Tennessee Whiskey. And those are things you just say yes
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: to and you figure out how to make it happen
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: once you get on stage. Warren Haynes and the Allman
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Brothers stuff that I do, that's all kind of like
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: spontaneous live music moments of, hey, I'm playing a show,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: come down and sing a song. And I say yes
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: to those things if I can and try and make
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: the most of those moments.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the present time. You make
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: a deal with this new label under the aegis of Virgin.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: You start cutting one record. Give me the timeline on this.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: On this record?
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Well, how we get to this record. You said you
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: were working on another record which blended into this record.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: Yes. I was finishing up an EP called Cocoon. And
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: that was a.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Record that I made that has a song called Poison
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: My Well that I had Grace Potter join me on.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: It was just a collection of songs that I was like,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: you know, it would be really fun to write and
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: record everything while I am expecting my son.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: And call it Cocoon.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: And it had thematically that whole idea of just preparing
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: for this time. But I had written with Lawrence Rothman
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: probably a year prior.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: Before we get there, was Grace Potter a friend of yours?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. You put out an EP. How does that fare
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: in your mind in terms of, commercially would imply raw money,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: but in terms of reach effect, did it make a splash?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: The EP, yeah, it did. We got a Grammy nomination
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: for Poison in My Well, which I wasn't expecting.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: And that was.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: A bridge to what I was like, what will eventually
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: be my next album?
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: I was a.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: New in my partnership with one riot and we wanted
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: to get some new music out and, and move on
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: to the next project after no one gets out alive.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: And that was the first release that we were going
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: to do together. And I think it made a splash,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: but I also think, um, I was like, Expecting to
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: sort of go on a little hiatus in new motherhood.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: And then just the universe had different plans in terms
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: of what struck creatively.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so how long did it take to cut those
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: four songs?
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: So it was five songs, and I recorded them all
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: probably in three months while I was right after birth.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: The Grammys for No One Gets Out Alive. So it
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: was the winter of.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: Last year.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: So then switch back to Lawrence Rothman.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: So Lawrence Rothman, I had already written with them probably
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: a year prior to this time. And the first song
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: we ever wrote together was a song called Gentleman, which
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: is on Half Moon. And I didn't know I was
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: going to be a mother to a son. I loved
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: this song. I loved the experience of writing with them.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: There were pretty big, heavy themes in the song about
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: gender identity and what masculinity is, the expectations put on young,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: old men, how they should be and conform. And the
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: experience was so great that I was like, I have
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: to work with them again. Daniel Tashian, I've always been
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: a fan of his work, especially with what he's done
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: with Leon Bridges and Casey Musgraves. And he's just got
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: like a different perspective in terms of court arrangements. And, um,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: I'd been wanting to work with him. Lawrence had a session.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: Lawrence lives in Los Angeles with Daniel and pulled me
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: into this session. And this was February of 25. And, uh,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: I was still finishing up the EP, but then we
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: wrote two days back-to-back. And I was expecting Graham in April.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: The first song we wrote was Everything's Changed, which begins
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: the B-side of this record. The next day we wrote
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: Used to It, which opens Half Moon.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: And between those two songs, I was certain that a new.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: project was coming together and that this is who I
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to make it with. And I had the luxury
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: of leaving these sessions with full-blown demos because Daniel has
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: this studio and he's just kind of a mad scientist
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: who would jump from the drum kit over to the
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: Mellotron and then he'd grab his mom's upright bass, she
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: lived across the street, and he'd play that and we'd
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: go home with these pretty realized versions of songs we'd
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: just written that day. So the sound was even galvanizing
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: pretty quickly. And we were just writing so regularly with
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: that energy and focus that that's how Half Moon came together.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit deeper how you literally wrote
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: the songs.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: I would... we would sit in Daniel's studio almost all
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: of the songs were written in the same place I've
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: never made a record like that where the ideas are
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: originating physically in the same place and with the same
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: people but I mean it did kind of make me
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: certain that at least there's going to be focus and
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: cohesion to what we're writing and how it's sounding and
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: sometimes we'd just start around the piano we'd talk Like
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: Daniel was always a great host and he would have
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: all sorts of snacks for me and he would have
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: a musical idea. And a lot of times Lawrence and
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: I would be really like working away on the lyric
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: and the structure and he'd be creating a musical bed
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: and the melodies would emerge. But sometimes we were just like,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: how the hell did this song happen?
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: Like this.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: Just.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: fell into our laps, and it was pretty magical, and
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to take that term for granted because
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: I just feel like it was a... It raised its hand,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: the album, for us it did. And we were also strategic.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: You know, we're not just trying to not think about
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: the album as a big picture. Like, what else do
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: we need to complete this work? And not just what
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: do we feel like writing today, we were trying to
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: be aware of all the other things we had created
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: in context and put together something that was going to
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: be a great listening experience from start to finish. And
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: we would have these really cool, long discussions about what
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: are great albums comprised of. And how much are we
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: thinking about the live show when we make an album?
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: Do we need things to be up-tempo just because we
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: need this energy for the live show? And having released
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of music before this, I knew that I
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: had things already there for that function. So it was
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: just really creating this world. And it was a little
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: bit of a sonic turn for me. Like, it's very elegant,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: kind of uptown feel, uh, on a lot of production.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: Like you said, at the very beginning of our conversation, it's,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: I'm coming from a world where I'm known more as
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: Americana rootsy, but a lot of the choices we made
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: from a production standpoint, I didn't feel like I had
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: to adhere to that. I just, it was fun to
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: just fully commit to this sound.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: Let's be very specific. You would wake up at what time?
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: You would go to the studio what time with a
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: totally blank mind or some ideas?
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: With ideas always. And I mean seedlings of ideas. I
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: was very collaborative with both of them on this. But yeah,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: wake up early. We would start writing at 10 or 11.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: which I know to some of my LA friends that
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: is unthinkable in terms of a starting time. But that's
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: also very Nashville of us, which I kind of love.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: There is a work-life balance here in terms of the
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: work flow in writing. We treat it like, hey, we
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: have a family we need to have dinner with tonight
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: and let's make something beautiful today and treat it with
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: respect and try to do this on a schedule that
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: makes sense with other people that we need to factor
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: in to our lives. But we would have lots of coffee,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: sit around his piano in his house. He has three daughters,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Daniel and his wife. So the house is pink and
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: very adorably feminine. He's a great girl dad. And then
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: we'd move from the piano after we knew what we
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: were okay, we've figured out our thesis and this is
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: the general structure of chords that we're working with for
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: the chorus. And then we'd migrate to his studio, which
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: was just adjacent to his house and had all of
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: his tools. And then he'd invite over an engineer and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: the engineer would sit with us while we assembled the demo,
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: even while we were still writing it though, too. Which
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: is a very cool luxury to have afforded to you
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: when you're writing a song.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: You wrote one song at a time?
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think there were some days where we were
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: doing some revisions on songs that we had pretty much
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: already written. Red Shoes is one that I think was
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: written in pieces over several sessions together. Then Even the Bridge,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: I was playing some shows up in New England and
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: I was sending them voice memos and then we'd come
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: back together and.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: Revise it.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: Did you go there at 10 in the morning, 11
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: in the morning, saying we're going to finish the song today?
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: I've never put quite a point on any creative process
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: like that. There are deadlines and things that I need
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: to be mindful of, and that wasn't the case with
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: this project, though. The fact that we wrote the title
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: track two days before I was going in to get
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: an induction is kind of crazy to me. But it
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: just was something that I enjoyed, this process of working
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: with him so much that I was like, what am
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: I going to do today? Just sit around and wait
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: for this big moment? Or should I go try to
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: make something of just like the intense emotions that I'm feeling?
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, so the writing period was how long?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: We started writing in February, and we finished writing a
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: couple months after Graham was born. So it was over
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: several months of crafting the songs, and then we started
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: to record the songs.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: In November. at RCA.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. You go in there with an idea. How do
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: you craft the lyrics in collaboration?
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: Well, I think.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: It does feel kind of second nature to me now,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: having been a co-writer for so long. But I also
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: think when you're writing for your project, I do think
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: that the Buck has to stop with me in terms
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: of this is exactly how we're going to phrase this line.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: And they were very deferential in that way.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: So it.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: Felt pretty organic in terms of the finality of the
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: arranging of words. But every time it's different, I think
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: sometimes you have a full poem of lyrics that you
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: want to put to music and then other times you
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: have a melody that you're singing at 3 a.m. The
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: most storage on my phone is used by my Voice
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: Memos app. It takes up all of my free storage
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: on my phone. Most of them are gibberish and things
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't use, but sometimes that one idea does come
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: through at an ungodly hour, and you think you'll remember
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: it in the morning, and you don't. So I record it,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: and a lot of times.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: That has.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: Been the origin of a melodic idea that ends up
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: on a record.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, you walk into the room. Is it very much
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: they're saying, your album, you read with the lyrics, let
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: us help you get your idea down, or the three
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: of us are writing songs, you come in with a piece,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: I'll add a piece?
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: Well, so One Morning, it's a bonus track.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: On our album that's going to come out later but
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: Daniel sat down at the piano and was like I
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: had a dream of this melody and he played it
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: on piano there were no words it was just like
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: gorgeous chords and like it just Lawrence and I were
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: both teary-eyed it just was one of those things that
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: struck us both so deeply and I think that song
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: was written in two hours, just in terms of what
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: we all just agreed that it sounds like these lyrics.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: And there was a story that it was based on.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm being vague because this is a song that's
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: coming out later. But it was based on a story
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: of a family that Daniel knew who had lost their
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: son to depression.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: And it was.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: You know, it was a combination of the chords he played,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: the story that he told us and what we wanted
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: to do with that and turn it into this idea
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: of like darkness will break.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: Hope, you know, is, is there for us.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: And, um, that was one of those, I guess, easier
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: I say in quotations, cause there were a lot of
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: things that had to happen for that to be what
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: we ended up getting that day. But then sometimes like
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: a song like Red Shoes took so long for us
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: because it is about frivolity and lightheartedness and like the
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: title Red Shoes, it's not something that we're all like
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: dying on a hill about. But to make a fun
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: song that has a lot of levity not feel like
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: so saccharine and stupid, like we had to figure out
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: how do we put some teeth on that? And that there,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: that was like a little bit more of a, a
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: grind in terms of how, how do we arrange this
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: in a way that's musically satisfying, but also can counter the, like.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 3: Add some weight to the levity of what we're saying.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: So. Okay. The album is done. The album is released.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: To what degree are you planned out going forward?
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: We're very planned out. Um, We're doing our first Austin
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: City Limits taping next week. I'm doing my own headlining
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: tour for the fall. We've just announced a bunch of
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: dates for that. But I mean, that takes us to
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: the end of the year.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 3: And I think that there's... I.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: Have ambitions to do a European tour because I think
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: this music would really resonate with that audience. And I've
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: never done that. I've never pursued... touring like that. This
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: feels like the right time to arrange that, set some up.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: But you're not thinking about another record or anything at
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: this point?
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: There are some songs that I've already set aside for
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: the beginnings of a new record.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: We've talked about... Yeah, I'm always thinking about the next record.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, and the album's just been out briefly. When you
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: release an album, you've been doing it for the better
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: part of 20 years. Same as it ever was, or
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: is it different this time?
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 3: It's different this time. I think.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: I feel fully in control of the choices that were made.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have a calm about me and
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: the fact that I've been doing this for a long time.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: No one's going to just take it from us. I
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: think this is something we've built strategically and there's a
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: meaningful connection with an audience out there.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: But in terms of this album, I.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: Do think it's like a culmination of a lot of
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: the lessons I've learned from artists that I've gotten to
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: collaborate with or perform with and write with.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: And that feels....
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: It feels nice to pour that back into my music.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: And I think sonically, that's why it's pretty wide ranging.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: In terms of marketing promotion reception, does it feel the
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: same or different?
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: It feels a little different. I think that people are
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: taking ownership. And when I say people, I mean my
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: label at Virgin.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 3: They're proud of this music.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: I think we've gotten some great playlisting from Spotify, in
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: places where it feels like it's accurately positioned. And there's
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: more broad thinking in terms of where this music can
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: go that doesn't just go back to the go-to assumptions
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: of where you think a Nashville artist belongs.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, Maggie, I think we've come to the end of
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: the feeling we've known. Your album is really special. You know,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: the hardest challenge today is just getting people to hear it.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: So hopefully this helps. I wish you luck. Thanks for
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: talking to my audience.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you for sharing it with your audience. It
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 3: was great to talk to you.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: You bet. Till next time, this is Bob Leftsense.