Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / All About Agents & Casting Directors

Transcript

All About Agents & Casting Directors · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: If you or your child is an aspiring professional dancer, this is the episode for you.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Today on Making the Impact, we're joined by Jason Stiers, founder and creative director of the Casting Collaborative, and Jim Keith, the owner of the Movement Tower Agency in LA, to chat about how agents and casting directors interact with and influence professional dancers.
0:45
SPEAKER_04: Hey y'all, welcome to this discussion of Making My One Pact of Dance Competition Podcast.
0:51
SPEAKER_04: I am your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my wonderful co-host, Leslie Mueller.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Hey Courtney, how are you?
0:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: It feels so good to be sitting next to you again.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: It's been a minute.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: It's been a minute.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: We sometimes do these from our own homes, which are only like two miles away from each other, but it feels like many, many more miles.
1:09
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
1:09
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: And I'm so happy to have you back sitting next to me recording.
1:14
SPEAKER_04: We're excited to be on our 98th episode on Making the Impact.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: Wow, we're so close to 100.
1:21
SPEAKER_04: That's wild.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: Can't believe it.
1:23
SPEAKER_04: Y'all get ready for episode 100.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: It's gonna be a good one coming to you soon in the next two weeks.
1:28
SPEAKER_04: But this week we are talking about agents and casting directors, which I think is a really exciting topic for all of the aspiring professionals out there.
1:38
SPEAKER_04: I think that the information that's gonna be provided on this episode is something that I wish I had when I was breaking into the industry at 18 years old.
1:45
SPEAKER_04: 100%.
1:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's there's so many questions about how does it work and what is an agent and what is a casting director.
1:51
SPEAKER_04: So we have two special guests here who are going to answer all of those questions for all of you.
1:57
SPEAKER_04: And I can't wait to jump into this episode.
2:00
SPEAKER_04: But before we do, we have a brand new sponsor on our podcast for this season.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Courtney, I'm super excited that we've got these folks on board.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: This is a new hair care line called Fave 4.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: You know how at competitions sometimes you got your costume pinned, your eyelashes are on, your lipstick is set.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Except now you have to transform your child's hairstyle for their next routine.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I know that is the most stressful moment of parents' weekend is oh my gosh, what am I gonna do with all these wispies and all this tiny children's hair?
2:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, kids' hair is so like wispy.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: With Fave4, you're gonna avoid the tears trying to brush through sticky gel or glue-like hairspray.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a family-friendly, high-performing hair care line made by professional moms who were once dancers and now have dancers themselves.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: They know the importance of easy-to-use, brushable, and clean products that can last through every turn, tap, and tortete.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Visit fave4.com to learn more about their products.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: That's Fave F-A-V-E, the number four.com.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: We also have an exclusive promo code to offer our podcast listeners to try out Fave4 yourself.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Use the code IMPACT15 in all caps at checkout to receive 15% off of your very first order.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you to Fave4 for sponsoring us in season three.
3:11
SPEAKER_04: All right, everybody, and another fun thing I like to share that's happening over here at IDA is this season at every IDA affiliated competition event, we are sponsoring a physical award called the Making the Impact Award.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: So it it will actually be a judge's choice award that will be given out by your IDA judges and is selected for the entire event.
3:32
SPEAKER_04: It can go to a solo to all the way to a production.
3:35
SPEAKER_04: And it's being selected by our judges on maybe that dance that just had exceptional choreography or an amazing performance, or the execution was so on point, and the judges just still can't stop thinking about it by the end of the weekend.
3:50
SPEAKER_04: So we are excited to be sponsoring this award.
3:53
SPEAKER_04: And one of the perks is that all of the winners will receive a shout-out live on our podcast.
3:59
SPEAKER_04: So I'm excited to announce a few of the recent winners of our Making the Impact Award.
4:03
SPEAKER_04: And our first winner was from Star Talent Productions at their Supply North Carolina event.
4:08
SPEAKER_04: It went to a small group called Human Nature from a Leap Above Dance Studio in Wilmington, North Carolina.
4:14
SPEAKER_04: Congratulations, guys.
4:15
SPEAKER_04: That's exciting.
4:16
SPEAKER_04: Our next winner is coming from Spirit of Dance Award event in Portland, Maine.
4:21
SPEAKER_04: This went to Alexa Lynn for her solo, Afraid of Changing.
4:24
SPEAKER_04: And she's an independent dancer based in Worcester, Massachusetts.
4:28
SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
4:28
SPEAKER_04: Go, Alexa.
4:29
SPEAKER_04: And our final award winner, our recent winner, is coming from True Dance Challenge in their Bethlehem Pennsylvania event.
4:37
SPEAKER_04: This went to a small group called the Hourglass from Nardy Dance Studios from Easton, Pennsylvania.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: Congrats to all of our winners for winning.
4:45
SPEAKER_04: And if you actually, if you win in making the impact award at an IDE-affiliated event this season, be sure to register so we can give you an upcoming shout-out.
4:55
SPEAKER_04: All right, listeners, it's time to jump into this episode to talk all about agents and casting directors.
4:59
SPEAKER_04: And first up, I'm going to welcome the casting director who is joining us today, straight from New York City.
5:06
SPEAKER_04: And I've had the pleasure of knowing him for a many years, auditioning for him, Leslie and I both, for many years.
5:13
SPEAKER_04: And I'm very excited to welcome Jason Styres to our podcast.
5:17
SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Jason.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, uh, thank you for having me.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: This is really exciting.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you all are doing this.
5:22
SPEAKER_03: It's also good to hear Leslie's slight southern touch.
5:26
SPEAKER_04: I know, it's still there a little bit.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: It makes me feel good.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: It makes me feel good.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: It makes me feel like calm.
5:30
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love it.
5:31
SPEAKER_04: And Jason, don't you live in Astoria?
5:34
SPEAKER_03: I do.
5:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm an Astoria.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: Um moved there back in like 2016.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: I started there like way back when I moved to New York and then returned in 2016.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: The return of Jason.
5:46
SPEAKER_03: The return.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if many people were too excited or happy about it, but nonetheless, they got it.
5:51
SPEAKER_04: I'm happy about your return to Astoria because I live here too.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, where are you again?
5:57
SPEAKER_04: I'm on 30th Ave in Steinway.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: We're super close to each other because I'm 31st Ave.
6:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
6:03
SPEAKER_04: See you on the streets.
6:07
SPEAKER_04: Um, well, thank you for squeezing us into your schedule, Jason.
6:10
SPEAKER_04: I know you are busy and hard at work casting so many shows and projects in New York City.
6:15
SPEAKER_04: But if you wouldn't mind sharing with our listeners a little bit more about you, where you're originally from, how you got involved with casting, and any credits you'd like to share.
6:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm originally from Montgomery, Alabama.
6:27
SPEAKER_03: That's the why I enjoy hearing a little bit of Southern accent.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: I grew up there.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: I actually didn't I danced.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: I didn't really even get into the art world as I like to call it, the arts world, until I got to high school.
6:39
SPEAKER_03: I went to nerd school, as I affectionately call it, um, where it was more about science fairs and social studies fairs and math competitions and debate.
6:50
SPEAKER_03: And then eventually crossed over into the world of the arts and it was fast and furious and started dancing when I was in 10th grade.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: And it was kind of all downhill after that, pretty much.
7:00
SPEAKER_03: Um so it was great.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: I went to college at the University of Montebalo, which is in the middle of nowhere, Alabama.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Fun fact, my grandmother went to that college too.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, we've had this conversation with that.
7:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: My grandmother is 92, so like this is a well-established place.
7:19
SPEAKER_03: It's it is, you know, we we have this weird homecoming tradition that we do called uh college night, which is we don't do like, you know, obviously football is so huge in Alabama.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: You have Auburn, Alabama universities that are huge on college.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: This was our homecoming tradition, which has been going on for over a hundred years now.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: It's competitive musical.
7:38
SPEAKER_03: So it was so perfect for my like college life.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: So I went there, got a BFA in directing and acting, but I knew I wanted to go into casting, uh, cast New York right after I graduated.
7:51
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and like it was just kind of took an internship, worked for free, which I don't encourage or recommend.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: Learned a lot, and then eventually started moving my way through the space.
8:01
SPEAKER_03: And uh I opened up or I left my former office and started my own thing in 2016 officially.
8:08
SPEAKER_04: Congrats.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, so it's been you know, it's been a crazy worldwide experience.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: As far as like things that I work on, obviously I have a huge relationship with the dance world specifically.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: I, you know, even for myself as a former dancer, it was easy to have shorthand with teams and agents and dancers.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: I can have a conversation and be real with them about what was needed for a project.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: I didn't have to have anybody explain to me what dance was or you know the specificity of like style, or you know, it was just easy for choreographers to talk to me.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: So I've gotten a lot of dance projects because of that.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, we're working on we have a company called Dance Lab New York that we work with.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: I work with Camellia Brown dancers, I work with you know, tons of different dance companies, but also in the theater world, I do straight plays, and we have two shows off Broadway right now, uh Little Girl Blue, and we also have Our Brother's Son that's gonna be happening.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: But that's a play, Little Girl Blue being completely no dance is not involved in either of these.
9:07
SPEAKER_03: And then also just bigger musicals like Anastasia that's out on tour right now, Fiddler that's out on tour, and then yeah, and there's other ones that I, you know, we're excited to announce very soon that I can't quite yet.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: I was about to, I was like, oh wait, nope, hold on.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: That was gonna be that was gonna be an edit that we're gonna need to make.
9:26
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, so like that that's the kind of stuff that I really do respond to, like dance world stuff.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: That's it really does make my heart sing to to be in a room full of dancers.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: So love it.
9:35
SPEAKER_04: Cool.
9:36
SPEAKER_04: And also, I want to just clarify, but I'm pretty sure, aren't you casting Ashley Marinelli's new immersive show?
9:44
SPEAKER_03: I am.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: So we're working actually, we're getting those callbacks out right now.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
9:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's been a lot and very exciting.
9:51
SPEAKER_03: That's very cool.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: It's a very immersive physical movement mixed with dance, mixed with, you know, spoken text as well.
10:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's gonna be very, very cool and I'm very proud and excited, especially like Ashley, somebody that you know has auditioned for me for so many years.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: Greg I see, there's a lot of people that are involved that are I'm so used to they're so used to being on the other side of the table, and now they're I get to do this with them.
10:15
SPEAKER_03: And it's been very, very, very I'm very blessed to be able to do that sort of stuff and also help them understand the side of the process.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, it's so different.
10:24
SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
10:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm super excited to go see Ashley's show.
10:27
SPEAKER_04: And Ashley's on our roster as one of the judges on IDA.
10:31
SPEAKER_04: So I wanted to just like connect that dot right there for all of us.
10:35
SPEAKER_03: We love it.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Ashley Marinella.
10:38
SPEAKER_04: Always.
10:38
SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you so much, Jason, for joining us.
10:40
SPEAKER_04: Can't wait to chat with you.
10:41
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
10:42
SPEAKER_04: All right, and our very next special guest is actually my agent, everybody.
10:48
SPEAKER_04: How cool! So I hit up my agent and I said, Hey, we're doing an episode on the podcast about agents.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: Do you want to come chat with me?
10:56
SPEAKER_04: And he said, Of course I do.
10:59
SPEAKER_04: So I'm really excited to welcome Jim Keith from the Movement Talent Agency.
11:04
SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Jim.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Hi, thanks for having me.
11:06
SPEAKER_04: Of course.
11:07
SPEAKER_04: I'm super excited to chat with you here.
11:10
SPEAKER_04: And I know that you are very much connected in the dance world and also in the competitive dance world.
11:16
SPEAKER_04: That's actually how we originally met, judging alongside each other like 10 years ago.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 10 years ago.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:22
SPEAKER_04: Crazy.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:24
SPEAKER_04: So crazy.
11:24
SPEAKER_04: And now, like full circle, now you're my agent.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: I know that's crazy.
11:28
SPEAKER_04: Dana, a long time since we've known each other.
11:30
SPEAKER_04: I'm super happy to have you as my agent now, representing me all the way from Los Angeles, even though I'm based in New York, but I know you represent dancers all over the country.
11:39
SPEAKER_04: So if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about you, where you're originally from, your previous dance career, and tell the world a little bit how you got involved with your agency.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so okay, I'm born and raised in Los Angeles.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Was, you know, just a normal kid, whatever.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Went to a performing and visual arts junior high school.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: And then that inspired me to continue on with that.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: I was concentrating on being an actor and a singer.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: And then I I auditioned for the Hollywood High School for the Performing Arts.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: That's like the local guardia equivalent on the LA side.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: And I did that in ninth grade through eleventh grade, still training in acting, still training in singing, was you know a lead in a couple of musicals.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I played curly in Oklahoma and all that kind of stuff.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: And then for some reason, I just didn't want to do it anymore.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: It just didn't inspire me.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: And all my friends at the high school that I was going to were all dancers.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: None of my close friends were actors.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: You would think that I would have friends with my circle that I was actually training with and doing plays with, but that just wasn't the case.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't interested in them.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: I really liked the dancers.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: They were just so nice and friendly and approachable.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: And I had started taking a beginning tap class in high school, and that really kind of sparked a fire in me and was like, you know what?
13:03
SPEAKER_01: I kind of, I really like this.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: And then I went down to see our counselor and I was like, you know what?
13:09
SPEAKER_01: I want to give up my singing and acting track because we're we were all like on performing arts tracks and I want to be a dancer.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: She was like, What?
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, I want to be a dancer.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: So when I was thrown into that environment, it was a very like kick in the pants, you know, kind of moment.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: But I started taking uh outside classes after school uh during the summer when we were off.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh I bought myself a a studio like unlimited class card, and I took as many classes as I could.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: One of my friends who had graduated a year before came to the school and came to talk to the dance department.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I just wanted to invite you guys.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm in this scholarship show because I was on scholarship at Joe Tremain Studio.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, you know, check the show out.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: And I turned the program over and it said scholarship auditions next week.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm gonna go try.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: And I went and Joe is sitting there and he was like, Buddy, you what uh you are not good.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Like you Joe Tremain said that?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, he goes, but you you know what?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh a good friend of mine, your dance teacher at your high school called and he told me that you're a very hard worker and that you're very committed.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: He goes, So, because of that, I'm going to give you a scholarship.
14:28
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
14:29
SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Nancy.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh my god.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, it was just, you know, a moment.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: So I did that program, got off, needed to continue my training, and then auditioned for an agent.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And it took me about, I think, three or four times in order to get one.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: It was called the Bobby Ball Agency, like back in the day.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: I just did a few things here and there, didn't book anything major.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: And so Joe actually hired me for his convention to work it as uh to work as an assistant and to work his merchandise booth.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So whenever I wasn't doing the merchandise booth, he would let me like assist teachers in class and so on and so forth.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: So in one city, I'm assisting somebody and I end up trying to six o'clock a layout, but my supporting leg was too turned out.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: So when I came back over, it snapped.
15:17
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
15:18
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: I was my my leg was like, I could see the bottom of my foot facing.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Like it was it was that.
15:25
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, rested up, lived off of unemployment.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Nine months later, my unemployment ran out.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: A choreographer offered me uh a job, I took class and I busted it again.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, and I was like, okay.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: And the doctor was like, if you do this one more time, you're gonna have to use a king.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was 27 years old.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, I'm done.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: So then one day I was just perusing on Goodold Craigslist and found an opening uh for an assistant at a talent agency.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Applied, and when I walked into the agency, it ended up being DDO Artist Agency.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, cool.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Which was one of the top dance agencies at the time.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: There were only three at that time.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: It was Bobby Ball, KSA.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, this was back in 2003, maybe 2002.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: There were only three dance agencies at that time.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh Bobby Ball, KSA, and then DDO.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Block actually formed out of DDO.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: MSA and Clear actually formed out of KSA.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: There's a whole dynasty of dance agency family tree thing.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Cool.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: So I was there, and because I knew dance, like Jason said, it was a very easy thing for me to be folded in on.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I picked it up right away.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: And then I was just, you know, had that head down, straightforward, first one there, last one to leave, kind of, you know, like mentality or whatever.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: And it really worked.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: And everybody who was above me just kept leaving.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm staying.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: I love this.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: This is amazing.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: And Bill Bowl was my boss.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know who he is.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: He was Paul Abdul's choreographer for many years.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, he's like an Emmy nominee and a VMA.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Like he's huge.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: He's huge.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, no, I'm staying.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: And then within two years, I was director of the department.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Which that never happens.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: But they all left.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they all left, and I was like sitting in the big chair.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I guess it's mine.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's mine.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: And so then uh, you know, they let me do what I wanted to do.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to open up additional branch offices.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: We we had opened one in New York, I went to Miami, opened one there, I went to Vegas, opened one there, and I went to Nashville and opened one there.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: So collectively, at one point, I repped over 3,500 dancers nationwide.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: And it was amazing, but I did off more than I could chew.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I just got completely burned out.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Like I was there from seven in the morning till sometimes midnight.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I fell asleep at my desk.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Like it was, it was insane.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And it was taking a toll on my health.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: So after five years, I approached them and I was like, listen, I can't do this anymore.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: I just, I just can't.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh my God, you're leaving.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: I was like, yeah, I can't.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: So I left, and all my clients were like, What are you doing?
18:06
SPEAKER_01: Where are you going?
18:07
SPEAKER_01: I'll follow you.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Are you going to another agency?
18:08
SPEAKER_01: I bet you're going to this one.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm a I'm gonna follow you.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No, I'm not doing that because I know all of them and I can't work with them.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: So one of my clients suggested that I start a management company.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: I was like, manager.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Manager for dancers?
18:21
SPEAKER_01: What?
18:21
SPEAKER_01: They don't they don't need a manager.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: But I ended up doing it, and I ended up managing choreographers and dancers, and I named it the movement.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: And after one month, I had like 35 choreographers under my belt that I was managing.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: And I did that for two and a half years, and then the people at DDO were about to close the departments that I used to run run because the revenue that they lost and the clientele just dwindled, you know, when when I left.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I've been my own boss for two years, I'm not really into it.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, thanks but no thanks.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: I was like, but if you make me partner and president and change the name, I'll consider it.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, okay.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh I took my yeah, so I took my management company and I acquired their dance choreography and equity divisions and then baked it at 350 for 45 minutes.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: And when I and when I pulled and when I pulled it out, we had the movement talent agency.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Nice, cool on I started that, and I started that back in 2012.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: We then acquired a sports agency two years later.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: So then we had ballerinas and basketball players, football players, and stump people.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: We did all that.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Then we started a kids division, then we started fitness division, and then I was like, I want to do musical theater.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: I went and I auditioned people in New York and I signed about 37 clients, and then something happened called COVID.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you know her, but she's not very nice.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: And then fast forward, and here we are.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I actually have a very strong footprint now there, and I have a I have a lot of clients, and I come out there frequently, and you know, that's pretty much it.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's my story.
19:57
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
19:58
SPEAKER_04: I love your story.
19:59
SPEAKER_04: It's so interesting.
20:00
SPEAKER_04: I was curious.
20:01
SPEAKER_04: I knew that you were connected with DDO agency, but it is really interesting to hear how you teamed up with them and merged that over there in Los Angeles, and how you have made a footprint over here in New York.
20:13
SPEAKER_04: And yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's like we always say, it's a very small world.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Very small.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Agencies all used to be the same agency.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Like the people are we're all it's all just everybody in and all the different places at once.
20:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_04: Well, let's jump in.
20:26
SPEAKER_04: This is great.
20:27
SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to tell everybody.
20:29
SPEAKER_04: I think, Leslie, you have a first question.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we're gonna dive backwards just a little bit for people who really, really don't know.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: So if you were, you know, Jason, you were in nerd school back in the day.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: And you know, for for any of our listeners out there who may be like not at all versed in any of this jargon, what is a casting director?
20:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, this is a question.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: You can make it brief.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to give us like a documentary about that.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: But I, you know, I also want to don't want to like perpetuate the oversimplification of what we do either, you know.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: So because I do feel like something that gets thrown around a lot is like casting agent, which really is isn't really a thing.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: It it does exist, but like in very specific avenues of the world that none of us are dealing with.
21:14
SPEAKER_03: So um a casting director, I like to think of them as basically a matchmaker.
21:19
SPEAKER_03: Our job is to find for our teams, our producers, or our if we're working on a film theater, if we're working on a music video, if we're working with a dance company, my job is to figure out how to find the people that will best inhabit the world of the team, the the world that the team is trying to create.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: Whether that be in a theatrical sense, whether that be in a company sense, whether that be just a very kind of like one off commercial, whatever the the medium may be.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: But I think that's the best way to describe it.
21:51
SPEAKER_03: So we definitely serve as go betweens between like the team, as and what I mean by team is like directors, choreographers, if there's a musical director, producer.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: Anybody that's creating on that.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: And then we also liaise with agents and managers in order to get the talent, the dancers, the performer of any stripe really into the room to figure out who's going to be the one to do this gig or job or career.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: And we also help orchestrate like what the audition process will look like.
22:22
SPEAKER_03: And we also hope that at least personally, like one of the biggest things for me is like making sure that we're really impressing upon our teams how to evolve the way we look at the people that we're hiring, how we evolve the way we're looking at it on our side of it to make sure it's inclusive and you know expansive.
22:38
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: So how you mentioned that you, you know, you part of your job is trying to get the right people in the room for the job that's on the table.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: How do you find these people?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I was thinking, I was telling Courtney earlier that, you know, you hear these success stories of people and they're like, the casting director found me on the street.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, are you Jason is is Jason walking around the streets in New York looking for people, or is he like, what is Jason doing?
23:04
SPEAKER_03: That's a lot of that is very fictionalized.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: And it's and it's a good PR spin.
23:08
SPEAKER_03: Now, there have been times I have, in rare instances, you know, been on a subway platform and there was like a singer musician that was playing, and I was like, oh, that's a cool non-musical theater sound.
23:19
SPEAKER_03: It's like just a singer that is doing their own thing.
23:21
SPEAKER_03: Hey, give me a car.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
23:23
SPEAKER_03: But that's that's not the norm.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's not the bulk of what we're doing.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the way we find folks, obviously we post like breakdowns via like kind of like these institutional resources like Breakdown Express, Actors Access, all that kind of stuff on playbill.com, backstage, answers for dancers, anything that has a place that has like a posting, we will put it there.
23:46
SPEAKER_03: Social media obviously has become a way for us to do that where we can do direct outreach, where I can put a uh an air table form for you to fill out, put your picture resume in there, I can look through it and call in who's appropriate.
23:57
SPEAKER_03: But that's the kind of like that's the kind of walking the streets in this day and age, you know, is that digital way of so I, you know, I think a big thing that, and I'm sure Jim has to deal with this a lot too, is just like I think any sort of person who wants to do performance beyond it being recreational should have a certain level of digital awareness.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: And that includes, you know, like pictures, resumes, even if they're not hyper expensive, they don't need to be expensive, they don't need to be like perfect.
24:23
SPEAKER_03: I just think you need to have some sort of digital version of pictures, resumes.
24:28
SPEAKER_03: And if you have like some sort of video online somewhere, whether that be Instagram or a YouTube channel, where you put up good stuff that you like a lot, good is more is not good, good is good.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: So that's an important thing to keep in mind too.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: And that's how I think that's how we discuss quote unquote discover new people nowadays, especially in this day and of age of of of the COVID.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, that has changed all the things.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: So that's I think that's an important aspect of if a lot of people want to be seen, right?
25:00
SPEAKER_03: I think you have to be prepared and you have to be you have to do a little bit of like work on the front end in order to be found, you know.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
25:08
SPEAKER_03: And put your email address everywhere.
25:10
SPEAKER_03: I can't say it's enough.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: That is if you have if you don't have an agent, put your email address somewhere, please.
25:16
SPEAKER_03: Everywhere.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
25:16
SPEAKER_04: You know where I wish more people would utilize the email features on their Instagram where you can like add your email there, or there's a button that says like email me or something, message me.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I think that that that's an important aspect because you have to change it over to a business profile to do that.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: But that's an important thing to hear.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, create create a separate Instagram account that is a business style profile.
25:39
SPEAKER_03: So that way you can add that button that says email.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, so now that we know what a casting director does, Jim, can you please give us the rundown of what an agent does for dancers specifically?
25:49
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: You have to think of an agent as a person who's kind of like a facilitator and a connector between you and various buyers that want to purchase dance in a variety of mediums, whether that be for musical theater, film, television, music videos, prints, tours, whatever that might be.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: People come to talent agencies because the talent that we hold has gone through some sort of vetting process, right?
26:15
SPEAKER_01: We've auditioned them, we've seen them dance, we know what what caliber of dancer they are, what type of dancer they are.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: And then from there, we can assess whether or not we think their skill sets, you know, their branding, their marketing, their look, whatever it might be, will be good enough for then for us to present to these various what we call buyers that would want to purchase dance from us.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's what we do.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: We're more of we're more of a pre-screener kind of like a connector.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And then when these people reach out to us and they say, Hey, I need something specific.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: And that could be, you know, all the way from a tap dancing grandma to a you know, uh a Broadway choreographer, you know, right?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: And so we dig into our roster, and then hopefully we have that pool of talent that this person needs, and then we present that talent to the casting director, the choreographer, whoever reached out at any given time.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, then through those efforts, the talent that we submitted gets an audition, and then that talent goes, does the audition, they either book the job or they don't.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: If they do, it then turns over back to us.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And then we dive in and then we ask all the questions, you know, we negotiate, you know, whether that be a rate or amenities or you know, whatever credit or you know, whatever it might be.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like, you know, like the term show business.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Our clients do the show, we do the business aspect aspect of that.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: If that's a good sound bite to kind of boil it down a little bit.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: So and then that's important, so you can do what you do best is just perform.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, because all that other stuff is you're not gonna be able to worry about going to rehearsal next day and rehearsing for eight hours and at the same time reading a 32-page contract.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: And understanding, you know, and you wouldn't want to, and you wouldn't understand it.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the whole agency thing started because back in the day, the the big studios like the MGMs and the paramounts and all that kind of stuff, they would have these actors under contract, and they would be able to do anything they wanted with them.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're gonna you have to do this movie, you don't get a choice whether you want to or not, and we're gonna pay you this amount of money, and you don't have a choice whether you want to or not.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: And you can take it or you can leave it because someone else wants your spot.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: So what do you want to do?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Like that was that was the that was the you know how things were dealt with back then.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And when the agent arrived, the agent was the one that was like, hey, you know, she's done this many kinds of shows, she's got this kind of talent, she's got this pull.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, once you're up with her contract here, you know, Paramount's already calling me and they want to bring her in, so you're gonna have to pay her more, you're gonna have to do this, you're gonna have to let her do you know, X amount of you know, projects or whatever.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And so that's where it really started.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: It started with allowing actors to have more freedom of choice with the projects that they wanted to work on.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, because before that they really had no, like if you were signed to something, you had to do this movie and there was there was no way out of it, or they would sue you.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, so that's so that's how that that whole thing kind of started.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also good for the casting director because then they could rely on us as a trusted resource for their needs at any given time.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Right because we have pre-screen people, because we have vetted them.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Because if that didn't exist, you know, and the floodgates were completely open, you know.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure when you have post your stuff on Answers for Dancers or Backstage or stuff like that, I'm sure you find some amazing gems, you know, when you do that.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure the majority of the submissions that are received are just not appropriate, you know, for for what you're looking for at any given time because people don't realize that it's all broken down into things like, you know, gender, ethnicity, height, skill set, credit level, sometimes look, sometimes uh the amount of of you know, uh followers you might have on various social media platforms.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: So all of that is, you know, taken into consideration, and we have it organized to a point where when they reach out to us for something very specific, we're able to provide that.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: So they're not slammed with just people that are like, what you're looking for somebody?
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Pick me.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, so we're kind of like a filter, you know, between all of that as well to casting directors and choreographers.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's what we basically are.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And and we're also here to help you, we're here to guide you, support you, give you advice, give you resources that might help you out, whether that's you know, headshot photographers or acting classes or workshops or dance classes or you know, whatever that might be.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: We're where like I had a client call me yesterday and he just want to talk something out because he has three offers on the table for three different musicals.
30:52
SPEAKER_04: That's nice.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's nice, right?
30:54
SPEAKER_01: And so he does yeah, and so you know, he was torn between one that he had workshop, you know, he was really close with them, but there's a risk that you know it might not move forward, right?
31:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, because it's new and we don't know what's gonna happen.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: And then he was presented with a musical that's the musical that everybody wants to be on that asks me about every week.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: I wonder which one.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, Yeah, I'm not gonna say it starts with an H.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: We know it.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Um but I'll let you figure that out.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: But you know, and I was like, buddy, like, you know, that that kind of offer changes people's lives.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
31:33
SPEAKER_01: So he's like, Yeah, but I really like this team.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, bless your heart.
31:37
SPEAKER_04: But and sometimes we need to hear that from somebody else.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes and then, but then I yeah, it's and it's frustrating too because but then I also have to come at it like I obviously want him to do the major one, but I also have to align my tone with him so I am also supporting his goals.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: It's not about me.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's about him.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: And I'm here to support him.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And I always end every conversation.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: That's just my two cents.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: But of course, I will support you 100% with with whatever decision you make in the end.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, so we pay count, we no, we play counselor and psychologist a lot too.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: And with our clients.
32:16
SPEAKER_04: What you mentioned earlier about how a lot of agents help guide their clients.
32:22
SPEAKER_04: I can definitely vouch for because when I moved to New York at 18, I did a cruise ship with Leslie.
32:28
SPEAKER_04: That's how we met.
32:29
SPEAKER_04: And then I saved all my money, and then I moved to New York, and then I got signed with Block Talent Agency in New York because I had a connection with someone that worked in the LA office and they recommended me for the New York office.
32:37
SPEAKER_04: So I didn't even audition, I just sent them my video and boom, I have an agent.
32:40
SPEAKER_04: And I'm 19 and I don't know what I'm doing.
32:42
SPEAKER_04: And my agent helped guide me.
32:44
SPEAKER_04: Here's what your resume is supposed to look like.
32:46
SPEAKER_04: Use this template.
32:47
SPEAKER_04: Here's a list of New York City headshot photographers.
32:50
SPEAKER_04: You need to go get new headshots.
32:51
SPEAKER_04: I want you to look like this, wear this color, you know, do this, do that, send them to us.
32:56
SPEAKER_04: We'll pick our favorite.
32:57
SPEAKER_04: That's perfect for casting.
32:58
SPEAKER_04: Like they told me what to do.
33:00
SPEAKER_04: And I truly was clueless because there weren't resources like this podcast, and there weren't any blogs back then or anything to help navigate how do you be a professional dancer.
33:12
SPEAKER_04: So I'm very grateful for my agent.
33:15
SPEAKER_04: You know, it's breaking into the industry.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: They've taught me so much.
33:18
SPEAKER_04: I've had multiple agents through the years, I've learned from all of them.
33:21
SPEAKER_04: And I think that they're just a huge part of your career if you are able to have one.
33:27
SPEAKER_04: They're there for your negotiations, they're there to help help push for you to get you in the room, they're there to cheer you on.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: I even have an agent.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
33:35
SPEAKER_03: Like, as you know, like almost all casting directors do, because there comes a point where you just don't want to be the person also having that face-to-face conversation about money or a problem, or, you know, whatever the case may be, you're like, hey, this seems hey, can you help me?
33:49
SPEAKER_03: It just gives that little moment of separation too in those moments.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: So and also advice, you know, we all need it.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: We all need it.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I'm gonna circle back.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna ask this these questions kind of backwards.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: But Jason, what do you do?
34:05
SPEAKER_00: So we've got a lot of obviously up-and-coming dancers who may be pursuing, you know, dance as a career pretty shortly.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: But you know, Courtney sent in a video and got an agent.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: It took me like four years of auditioning to get an agent, like in physical getting, you know, getting in the room.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: So I operated for about four or five years without an agent as a non-union dancer in the city.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: How as a casting director would you suggest that non-union people with no agent get in touch with you?
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Or like, how do they, how do they have relationships with you?
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, you were one of the first people I auditioned for.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: I've known you for almost, you know, probably 10 years now.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: And I know I'm like, Jason knows what I do, who I am.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: And I I did that myself before I had an agent.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, it was truly just getting in the room, going to the, you know, not the pay-to-plays necessarily, but the classes you would teach and things like that, and truly just showing up.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: But do you have any more advice for people who don't have that person in their life yet to serve as that go-between?
34:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think that ultimately it I say this with a lot of hesitation because I'm always concerned about it being taken to extremes.
35:08
SPEAKER_03: I think that getting out there in opportunities that are available to you for like in in an open call kind of way.
35:15
SPEAKER_03: Any opportunities you should do with the little asterisk next to that for things that you are actually appropriating for.
35:23
SPEAKER_03: Because I think it's really important for multiple reasons to say that.
35:26
SPEAKER_03: A, your time and your energy is valuable.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: So if you're going in for stuff that is nowhere near the thing that you think you should be, you're you're gonna get hired for, or with teams that's not really in line with what you're going for, what's the outcome here?
35:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, I know that a lot of I I remember, and maybe I've even said it myself, like, oh, teach an audition like a class.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I don't know if I sign up for that anymore, if I've ever said that in my life, because I'm sure there's some sort of recording of me saying But you know what I mean?
35:58
SPEAKER_03: Like, I think it's really while you can learn a lot, yes, in an audition.
36:02
SPEAKER_03: I think understanding that an audition is an interview.
36:05
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, and that's an important thing for people to remember.
36:08
SPEAKER_03: So I think being very diligent about the things that you're whenever there are open open opportunities, like open calls, or or if there is like a, you know, in the theater world, there's like equity principle auditions and equity chorus calls, which exist for that reason, for meeting new people.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: That's ways to do it, I think.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: And also, again, in this day and age, like having the if you have a well-curated, it doesn't have to be fancy, but like a clear curated version of you in digital space, it's easy for me to check that out.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: It's so easy, and I can tell from I don't even need you to dance, honestly.
36:43
SPEAKER_03: I can make you walk across, like I I'm not saying all casting directors can dance.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: Let me just clarify that too.
36:48
SPEAKER_03: Because they can't, because they come to exam and they're like, I need sweet and fun choreography, and that doesn't mean anything.
36:53
SPEAKER_03: And like what to a choreographer, you know, like but we know how to translate whenever they say silly things like that.
36:59
SPEAKER_03: But I would say, like, you know, I can tell from like the second somebody walks in a room, I'm like, I know you're gonna be able to like at least get a callback in this moment.
37:07
SPEAKER_03: Like, I I know, I can just tell.
37:09
SPEAKER_03: But I think that that's being prepared in that sort of digital space in this day and age.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: I think that's that's that's that's a big change, it's a game changer, in my opinion.
37:17
SPEAKER_04: So something that you just said as far as like the walking and the callback goes hand in hand with dance competition.
37:23
SPEAKER_04: It surely does.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: Where I know how you walk on stage is if you're a higher or if you're an ultimate diamond sapphire, like sugar and bubblegum dancer.
37:35
SPEAKER_04: Like it's it's clear, it's true.
37:37
SPEAKER_04: I mean, honestly, and I think that's a perfect example of how that translates as you progress in your career into the real world.
37:44
SPEAKER_04: You're always being watched dancers, like even just like Jason said, he's the casting director behind the table and he watches how you walk in the room and he already knows if he he already has an idea of who you are as a person, just based on your body language and your posture and you know, things like that.
38:00
SPEAKER_04: Same at competition, yeah.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: It's exact same.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, and a lot of things about competition don't translate.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: And like we've talked about that before, but like that is totally one of the things.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think, Jason, you bring up such a good point for dancers and dance parents to also be realistic about who you are and what you do.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, I am four foot eleven and three quarters.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: I will not go to the Rocket audition.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I will be wasting their time, I'll be wasting my time, I will be very sad, and it's just a waste of everybody's time.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, would it be a fun opportunity and a fun class and a fun Sure, but like I'm also wasting five hours of my life and five hours, you know, people's time.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: No, know what you do and be honest about it because there's there's plenty of things for everyone.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that could also be debated, really.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I don't go to a rocket audition, period.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: There's no reason I should, there's no reason they should even see me.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: And I always I always say, you know, to my clients when they're frustrated, because everybody gets frustrated when they think they should be in a show.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: They think they should be in a show, but they don't get an audition for it.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and I always try and tell them, like, listen, you whether you realize it or not, you you carry this tiny little voice and sentence in your head, which is I'm a dancer, there was an audition.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: I should go.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, right.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's that three sentence that you carry in your head with probably not even knowing it that is uh causing you to be frustrated.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Because you need to realize there are so many other components involved above and beyond just being good enough for for for the opportunity.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, height, like I said, gender, ethnicity, skill set, credits, whatever, whatever it might be, you have to take all of that stuff into consideration.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: And you have to know that the catch 22 about dancers' career goals is to a very large certain extent, your career goals are literally in the hands of others when you think about it.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: And so, because of that, you can't be so hung up on having to be in a particular show, having to dance for a particular choreographer, because it's not really always up to you.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of never up to you.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I always tell my clients just your job is to just show up if you get an opportunity to show up and leave evidence of your greatness.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: That's all you can do.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Love that.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, put your hands up and walk away and move on to the next thing.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Because there's you you are literally, it is out of your hands at that moment.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Because I have clients who have the perfect headshots and have taken all the major workshops and will know the choreographer and will know the casting director and still not get called in because they're not right for what they're looking for.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, so so if you just hold on to that and take that into consideration, I assert that you would probably have less, you know, frustration in your life and just just concentrate on just doing your best in any situation, you know, you can, and not cherry pick, you know, especially in the beginning, don't cherry pick the opportunities that are given to you.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: I have clients who have very minimal credits, you know, aren't even union, and they'll get an audition opportunity for a show and they'll turn it down because it's not you know aligned with their career goals, you know, or whatever it is.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you you you don't even know what that relationship could lead to.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: You being in a room with that casting director that could lead to something else.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: You being in front of that choreographer who's obviously going to choreograph other shows, right, you know, so it's definitely something to, you know, consider is just doing your best in every moment and then walking away and letting it go and going on to the next one.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's another, you know, thing that I think does compare really well, Courtney, with competitions.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: And we say it all the time.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: You can only control what you can control.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And you've you are responsible for controlling that.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: You are responsible for putting your hair up in a bun.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: You are responsible for, you know, having everything on point.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: And then what the judges see is what the judges see.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: But like you can at least have that confidence that I did everything I could.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: And then it's up to fate and the world and the casting director and you know, everything else.
42:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
42:08
SPEAKER_04: And I I can definitely say that I, from it per personal experience, when I first broke into the industry, I had that mentality where I would go to everything and anything because I just wanted it, was hoping that it would lead to something.
42:22
SPEAKER_04: Even if it wasn't that show, I was hoping that I'd, oh, casting would get to know me more.
42:27
SPEAKER_04: And I remember I went to a wicked ECC right at the very beginning.
42:30
SPEAKER_04: And Wicked's been around for a while.
42:32
SPEAKER_04: Now, look, you'd still be good for Wicked.
42:33
SPEAKER_04: I know I could do Wicked, I know I can do it, but you know, and I made it through a callback cue.
42:39
SPEAKER_04: And then next thing you know, I obviously didn't book Wicked, but I had a call for In the Heights because Broadway it was on Broadway at the time.
42:47
SPEAKER_04: This was back in like 2009.
42:49
SPEAKER_04: So I got a callback because casting saw me at Wicked and they were like, Wait, was it was it but I was there at that time.
42:56
SPEAKER_04: Oh, you were?
42:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's why I'm like, wait, do I remember that?
42:58
SPEAKER_03: That would have been the run then to be able to do that.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it probably would have been it.
43:00
SPEAKER_04: I think it was for the 2009 to either was it could have been for the national tour, but um, equity national tour.
43:07
SPEAKER_04: But like I was excited because I just saw that show with Leslie literally on Broadway, and I was like with with Gabi in it, who we're gonna be on her podcast in a minute.
43:15
SPEAKER_04: Yes, and like full circle.
43:17
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is like I get a call from Telsey, one of the major casting companies in New York.
43:23
SPEAKER_04: I'm like 20 years old, they think I'm right for a different show.
43:26
SPEAKER_04: Obviously, it didn't book in the heights either, sad.
43:28
SPEAKER_04: But you know, like I got to get in the room with the right people, and I think like so it's all about networking and getting in front of you know, establishing yourself and making a name for yourself.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: That happened to you again a couple weeks ago.
43:40
SPEAKER_04: It did.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: And that was like And we had a conversation about it.
43:43
SPEAKER_04: You did.
43:44
SPEAKER_04: I needed your advice and you gave it to me.
43:46
SPEAKER_04: And then and you know what?
43:47
SPEAKER_04: And I think that also that example, Jim, that you just mentioned, goes hand in hand with what you were also talking about, or what we just briefly talked about as far as also like knowing what you're right for and getting to know.
44:00
SPEAKER_04: You as a dancer, because like I said at first, I'd go in for everything, even if I wasn't right for it.
44:04
SPEAKER_04: And I wouldn't do my homework.
44:06
SPEAKER_04: And I, you know, you it's important to do your homework as to who is this choreographer, what is her movement style.
44:11
SPEAKER_04: Do you does that match your level of training and your ability?
44:14
SPEAKER_04: If you say you're a tap dancer, are you a good enough tap dancer for this?
44:18
SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
44:18
SPEAKER_04: Or for that.
44:19
SPEAKER_04: You know, probably not.
44:20
SPEAKER_04: Usually it's probably not.
44:22
SPEAKER_04: And there have been scenarios where you get into the room and you're like, Woof, this is so above my head.
44:25
SPEAKER_04: I thought that I could handle this, but I cannot handle this.
44:28
SPEAKER_04: And that is okay.
44:29
SPEAKER_04: That's a learning lesson.
44:31
SPEAKER_04: But that, you know, at the same time, like perfect example, Jim, I was offered a potential opportunity for something I never even auditioned for, and just kind of fell into my lap because casting knew who I was and they thought I was capable.
44:45
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, that's it happens, y'all.
44:47
SPEAKER_04: It happens all the time.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, it happens, and I I think people too, sometimes it's it's all good to play full out.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: And of course, you should try to participate as much as possible.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: But to a certain extent, you also must realize that if you're putting yourself out there and sticking your neck out there also for things that are in your lane and aren't in your wheelhouse, you're actually making a bad first intention rather than a good one.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: People are just like, I do everything and I show up, I'm full out, you know, and my intention is set.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, yeah, of course, that's good, but you need to, you know, be careful with that.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: And I get a lot of people who ask to be submitted for certain things, and I'm like, that's not really what you can do.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: I know you want to be, you know, George Washington.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: I know you want to be Glinda, I know you want to be, you know, whoever it might be, but you can't sing like that.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: Do you know that?
45:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think I think that's a good thing.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, and honestly, you have to ask that question because I don't think some people know.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: No, and I think I think it's like sometimes I'm just kind of like, I'm very frightened and I'm very nervous for these people because that means that and that and that's the issue too, to go back with my how I used to teach.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of that, that back in that generation, that approach with that direct reproach was great because as a performer, you were clear with what you could do or what you couldn't do.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think all of the the newer coddling and told that you're a special snowflake every five minutes has has, and everyone gets a trophy, right?
46:21
SPEAKER_01: Has led to this kind of thing where people aren't able to connect, like I can't do that.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: And if I want to do that, I need more training, I need more time, I need more, you know, whatever it is.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: Because in our generation, because how we were schooled, that was very clear to us.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: Like I knew I had to take that amount of classes to get better.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: I knew I wasn't gonna be able to work with where I was at.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: So it was clear, and I didn't have a problem with it, and I wasn't upset about it.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: But now you have to be very, and I don't know if Jason experiences this, but now you have to be very kind of careful with your approach with people when you're talking to them because you can easily offend them by being just authentic.
47:01
SPEAKER_01: And you're not trying to hurt their feelings.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: Your your level of authenticity in your approach is actually coming from a place of respect and you me actually wanting you to work more and me actually wanting you to be better.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes people don't hear that.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: They hear he thinks I I'm terrible, or he thinks I'm not good enough, or he thinks I'm I'm like, that's not what I'm saying.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm saying in order to do this, you need to do that.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: And are you willing to do that?
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: And some people are, which is great, and it works.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: And some people just they don't hear it, and they just keep moving forward, and then they just keep complaining and they're you know, bewildered.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: But well, why am I not getting calls?
47:42
SPEAKER_01: Why am I not you know, and I'm just like, I'm trying to tell you, you know, what you need to do, right?
47:49
SPEAKER_01: But you're just not, you know, your professors in college probably told you you were beautiful, wonderful, and amazing every five minutes.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: And now and that's now now the the talent is now in a place of confusion and almost to a certain extent suffering because they got because they got that kind of communication.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: And now they're being thrown in the new world and no one's gonna you know hold their hand and treat them that way.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's very interesting.
48:19
SPEAKER_04: I'm sure we've all been there when your studio asks for a different hairstyle for every single dance at competition.
48:27
SPEAKER_04: Trying to brush through your dancer's slick-down gelled hair to transform it into its next style is a tough job for any dance parent.
48:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, I have a solution for you.
48:36
SPEAKER_04: Introducing fade four hair care.
48:38
SPEAKER_04: Designed by professional moms who were once dancers and now have dancers themselves, they knew exactly what type of product to create to make the dressing room hairstyling easier and safer.
48:48
SPEAKER_04: Fade 4 offers easy-to-use, brushables, and clean products that can last through every turn, tapped, and tortoise on a long competition day.
48:57
SPEAKER_04: Visit fave4.com to learn more about their products now.
49:01
SPEAKER_04: And be sure to use our exclusive podcast promo to try out their hair care line for your dancer or even yourself.
49:07
SPEAKER_04: Use the code Impact15 in off caps to receive 15% off your very first order on their website at fave4.com.
49:16
SPEAKER_04: That's f-a-v-e4.com.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think a big part of it too, like is also the what's tricky about it is that folks often confuse and conflate their artistry with their participation in a hyper commercial aspect of an industry.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: Right.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: And those those both exist side by side and they sometimes interplay and they sometimes overlap, but they don't always equal each other, right?
49:50
SPEAKER_03: So if your artistry is not quite up to what the commercial needs are, right, of a show or whatever it may be, then yeah, you you either your options are you can try to develop your artistry to match that, or you can say, I don't want to do that, I don't care, but I've got other things that I can do in my life.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think that's where it gets really tricky.
50:11
SPEAKER_03: And I would imagine like navigating those conversations as Jim probably has to do far more than I do.
50:16
SPEAKER_03: You know, I I think those are that's probably where it gets really tricky and very personal because it's hard to separate being somebody who does art for a living.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:26
SPEAKER_03: That's really that's a lot, that's a very tricky fine wire to be constantly living on, especially when so often producers don't want to appropriately pay you for that anyway.
50:40
SPEAKER_03: So it only reinforces a lot of the craziness of this person.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and the and it's for you know, parents and and kids listening, you know, this is why we harp so much on this podcast about when levels came out, because this directly correlates to exactly what Jim just said.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: If if nobody is ever allowed to say, that was a gold, you got it.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: I gave you an 81.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: You need to take more ballet, you need to do better, you need to take more class if you want to work or you know, progress or even, you know, within a studio setting.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: But now that levels are added, everybody gets an award and there's there's curves and there's ways of scoring that everybody feels very proud of themselves, which sure, be proud of yourself for getting on the stage and doing the thing.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: But that is turning into, I think, like Jim said, a professional class of young people now who are incredulous when they're not booking and they're incredulous when they're not the best dancer in the room and they're not getting an agent.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: And and it is hard to sit back and say to yourself, as you know, a performer, somebody who wants to work for a living, am I working as hard as I could be?
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Because everybody has told you since you were seven that you are.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: Or that what you can do right now is good enough when sometimes it's really not.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: And but nobody wants to say that.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard.
52:00
unknown: It's hard.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it, I think it started.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: I I was I'm old enough and I was judging long enough to see the transition from when they had remember honorable mention.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: Mem member member bronze.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, headliners.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: Forgot about that.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: And that and that, and that was if you were given an honorable mention or a bronze, it was clear that you needed to keep working.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: But even in the vocabulary switch, because even in your mind subconsciously, you think of who doesn't think of gold as like high, right, right, except for as as high.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: And so, and then that but now gold is like the lowest.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: And like the highest is like super platinum titanium, right?
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Or whatever it might be.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: And so the the the even the vocabulary change of of the of the meddling and award system, I think, has psychologically, you know, duped them in into into thinking that because if you still you're like you got a gold, subconsciously you like a gold is great.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: But if you were clear that you got a little ribbon that said honorable mention on it, or a bronze, yeah, you know, and if you watched the Olympics at any time in your life, okay, you know what place you you know what place you came to.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:12
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
53:13
SPEAKER_01: So I think that it it even started there, and I started to see the shift.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: Because I used to love uh judging for this competition called headliners, and I loved Irma Ziegler, I just loved her because they were back in the day, they were only one of the competitions left who actually let the judges give away bronzes.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: And and if sometimes we were in a city and we gave away 50 bronzes, is what it is because that's just that's just the way it was.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: But then people complain and then they don't come back and you know, whatever it is.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: So, but I remember seeing that shift, and then I remember seeing the shift in the mentality of the dancer too.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's it's very interesting how you're exactly right, how that has completely translated and folded into, you know, their their career paths and and how they approach things.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: And even, you know, Courtney's still in the biz and I have left for the past few years, and it's just interesting to to be outside of it now and to really be able to look at it objectively and be like, you know, my worth doesn't depend on whether Jason Styers thought I was, you know, a fit for Anastasia.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: Like it just doesn't, it's that's not part of me anymore.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: But I think for the up-and-coming kiddos is, you know, when we are when you are thinking about getting an agent going in front of the casting director, even we know with some of the competitions offer, you know, agent uh opportunities within the competitions, you know, that's just one part of your life.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's not the end all be all.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: And having an agent, even, which we're gonna get to in a second, Jim.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to have an agent.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: Does it help?
54:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: But did I work for five years without an agent?
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Lee, you do a lot of work.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: You do a whole lot more work than you do if you have an agent.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, it is possible.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: So, but Jim, tell us, how do you get an agent?
54:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
54:59
SPEAKER_01: There's a couple of different ways.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could submit yourself via the website.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, we ask you a a jillion questions.
55:06
SPEAKER_01: Are you in school?
55:07
SPEAKER_01: What's your union status?
55:08
SPEAKER_01: Have you had an agent before?
55:09
SPEAKER_01: Who's referred you?
55:11
SPEAKER_01: We have a place for you to upload your headshot and resume, and then we ask that you also send us links of your of your self-performing.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: And then if you have a casting profile on casting networks or actors access, we ask for that link as well.
55:21
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the the most frustrating thing about that is we get that's why I was talking about the the open submissions for the casting directors, how I'm sure it's different from the submissions from the agents, is that we just get a lot of people that they have no idea what they're doing, and they'll just send us stuff that's just completely random, like a like a photo of them lying in the grass in their backyard, or you know, just weird kind of like a resume, like that's kind of like a resume that you would use if you were applying for a a job at like Gap or Target or something like that.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, it has no dance anything on it, you know.
55:57
SPEAKER_01: So it's just interesting, even then, how people approach like the lack of research, the lack of homework preparation.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to pre-cause I would be very careful with that.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: Like you're presenting yourself and again trying to make a good first impression.
56:11
SPEAKER_01: Why would you not do your research and you know, do that and just you know, push yourself forward?
56:16
SPEAKER_01: So it's very interesting the kinds of submissions that we get.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they're just absolutely crazy.
56:21
SPEAKER_03: I was the casting director for Magic Mike, and nothing's anymore.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I'm I'm sure.
56:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that must have been crazy.
56:31
SPEAKER_01: Um that's nuts.
56:32
SPEAKER_01: So then there's that way.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I mean we haven't done we haven't done it since COVID, um, because you know it's not it's not too COVID-friendly, just take hundreds of people in a room together anymore.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: But uh I wish we could, but we can't.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: But back in the day, uh we used to obviously do the live.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: I want to return to that.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: I think I will return to that someday.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: But we would obviously do the lives.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: I love the lives, they're always very exciting because you need because you get to see people dance in real time.
56:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:56
SPEAKER_01: And you get to see choreography thrown on them in the same time frame as it would be at an audition.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, you could send me a video of that solo of you at Showstoppers, but I don't know how long you practiced.
57:06
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
57:07
SPEAKER_01: And you and you know, Courtney, you'll have kids if you go to a convention competitions, you'll have kids who are amazing on stage, but you get them in class and they can't even do a shed.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: Like you, you're you're you're you're like, okay, there's a huge so you've been practicing that solo all year long, and that's all you can do.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, so we we we started getting that too, like just the competition videos, and they would be great.
57:28
SPEAKER_04: And then we'd sign them and send them two auditions and look at them and be like, oh, right, that's not or if they get on the job and they just don't they just can't keep up.
57:36
SPEAKER_04: They just they don't know what they're doing.
57:38
SPEAKER_04: It's not, you know, the rehearsal periods are too short for them, or they expect a certain amount of time.
57:43
SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm not gonna be able to get it in this short amount of time.
57:45
SPEAKER_04: That's the job, honey.
57:46
SPEAKER_04: You gotta get it.
57:47
SPEAKER_01: That's the job.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, that that's why we start with across the floor.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: So, and we cut from across the floor, we will line you up like a train and have you do two counts of eight across the floor.
57:57
SPEAKER_01: And if you can't even do that, you know, and we stand there and we go, Thank you very much, please stay.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: And people are always shocked, and they're like, You didn't see me dance.
58:04
SPEAKER_01: I said, Yes, I did, sweetheart.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: Two counts of eight from there to there.
58:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
58:07
SPEAKER_01: Here you go.
58:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, because if you can't even do that, you're not gonna be able to handle the choreography we're about to throw at you.
58:16
SPEAKER_01: Or a job.
58:16
SPEAKER_01: The this this eight this eight to ten count of eight combo in 15 minutes.
58:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're not gonna be able to handle that.
58:23
SPEAKER_01: So I love the lives.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I will bring them back.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: But the best way is through a red site.
58:28
SPEAKER_01: But the best, best way is through a recommendation.
58:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, referral.
58:31
SPEAKER_01: From a casting director.
58:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:32
SPEAKER_01: From a referral, from a casting director, from a choreographer, from a fellow client.
58:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, from a I always love my clients.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: I feel so great when they're like recommend someone to me, because then that makes me feel good that my client trusts me enough to also look after their friends.
58:48
SPEAKER_04: I send people all the time.
58:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the referral the referrals from clients and casting directors and choreographers are always, you know, great.
58:55
SPEAKER_01: Because then I know what I'm probably going to get is going to be at a at a level where, you know, they're going to be easily folded into this whole you know entertainment industry thing.
59:06
SPEAKER_04: So that kind of goes hand in hand with referrals because if someone's referring you, then they're vouching for you, and they, you know, if you sign them or if you bring them onto a show and then they're not up to par, then that's a reflection on the referral, essentially, because, you know, they weren't up to par.
59:22
SPEAKER_04: But how does your I feel like it goes hand in hand with reputation.
59:25
SPEAKER_04: And I think that reputation in the industry is a big thing.
59:29
SPEAKER_04: And do you feel like, Jason, in particular, have there been times where you've gotten to know dancers that have good reputations and you want to continue to rehire them for future jobs?
59:40
SPEAKER_04: Or maybe you've heard that they've had bad reputations on particular jobs, and it's like a red flag moment where I want to hire them, but now I heard they have a bad rep and I'm not sure about it.
59:49
SPEAKER_04: Have you ever encountered something like that?
59:51
SPEAKER_03: I would say so, just to make one distinction too, just so for the folks that don't know what we do.
59:57
SPEAKER_03: So, like we technically will not be the one, the hiring entity, just so everyone's clear.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_03: I know you're not going to be able to do that.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: No, we know we're not an employer, we're not a hire.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_03: I just want like Courtney, I know you know that, but I just want to make sure that everyone listening understands that we are not the people hiring them, but we are hoping to get you hired, right?
1:00:14
SPEAKER_03: And Jim's hopefully there to help you like negotiate what what the hiring terms will be.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_03: So I would say like that obviously factors in, you know, and but I also, at least how I approach it, every casting director is going to be different.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_03: I also like to take into consideration, like, okay, this person, I have to take into consideration the source of that information, right?
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: So if a monster of a choreographer is like, oh, they're a problem, I'm like, well, is it is it them or is it like crazy?
1:00:44
SPEAKER_03: Is it totally possible?
1:00:46
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_03: So I have to consider the source of that information and also the context of that information.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_03: But again, like that's that's a lot of processing, right?
1:00:55
SPEAKER_03: So ultimately the best option is don't be a problem, right?
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: The the next best option is like if you're going to be a problem in a situation for a team or a project or a a contract, make sure it's the correct thing to be doing, right?
1:01:12
SPEAKER_03: It's it has to be bigger issues.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: It can't just be like, oh, they didn't put my pencil in the right place.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, fuck it out of it.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, it needs to be like, oh, this is a like this, I'm in danger here.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, like if you're gonna be a quote unquote problem, like make sure that the that you're causing, you're being, you know, you know, again, again, I'm from Alabama, so like ultimately, like John Lewis is it's be be good trouble, sure, but make sure it's for a good reason.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_03: So I think that, you know, yes, it does come into factor.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_03: And like we definitely, I know that teams that will rehire people, you know, because they are great to work with, even if they're not quite right.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_03: They're like, they're in the world, they're the vicinity, right?
1:01:54
SPEAKER_03: They're somewhere around what they're looking for.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_03: But I just love working with that person and I know that they understand me.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_03: I don't have to, you know, they will get rehired because of that.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_03: Not for every single project, but for this one, it's everything's a case-by-case basis.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_03: But you know, being uh somebody who doesn't show up prepared, doesn't show up to on to work on time, who you know doesn't want to participate, doesn't like then you it's telling, I would imagine it would tell teams that you don't want to be there anyway.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_03: Okay, then don't.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_03: There's other people that would love to be in this position.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's a hyper complicated way of answering that question.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_04: But all right.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_04: And Jason, thank you so much for joining us on the episode.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_04: I know you have to jet and go send out some callbacks for some uh recent auditions right now.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: I do.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_03: Literally.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_04: We're gonna totally let you head out and go do that, and we'll finish up the episode with Jim.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_04: But we're so grateful that you joined us and shared all of your knowledge on being a casting director with our listeners.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_03: Thank you all for having me.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Jason.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_03: All right, bye.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_03: See you all soon.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_04: Bye.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_04: Do you have anything to add, Jim, on as far as the reputation thing?
1:03:05
SPEAKER_04: The last question.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sure.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that happens a lot.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_01: I always the thing for me, I always question the most is when a dancer comes from another dance agency.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: And they're like why I'm like question.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm like, it was either you or it was me.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: And I have and I have to make that distinction very clear.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_01: And I have to be kind of an investigator.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_01: And and very careful with, you know, our interview.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I will reach out to the other agencies.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: Really?
1:03:41
SPEAKER_01: A lot of a lot of people don't think that the dance agencies talk a lot with the city.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask are you friendly?
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: Last week, we last week we were on all on two Zoom calls together and a massive email for three different things.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: All of all of the major dance agencies talking about certain things.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: So we do communicate with each other for for you know various reasons, whether that means means making sure that we're all asking for the same rates, you know, no one's trying to lowball someone.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: Danger, danger, don't work with this person, they're a fraud.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, we we do have to talk with each other.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I'll reach out to the other agents and say, Hey, I know this client is not with you any longer.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_01: We had an interview with them.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_01: Why did you part ways?
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, and sometimes they're very like, it just didn't work out, you know, whatever.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_01: But then sometimes they will, you know, tell me the truth and just their opinion about you know how things occurred.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:30
SPEAKER_01: So it does happen.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: And especially but especially and also too, you have to be careful if you're going from another agency not to bat bad mouth the other agency too much and say certain things.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're like, you know, they just never got me out, the first thing that I'm gonna think in my head is, well, what was your participation level?
1:04:47
SPEAKER_01: What was your, you know, how how did you approach things?
1:04:50
SPEAKER_01: Because if you know the way it works, we don't make money unless you make money.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_01: Then why on earth would we do anything to hinder your the amount of audition we would literally be shooting ourselves financially in the foot.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_01: So the thought that we're not trying our best to get you out as much as possible doesn't really make sense if you think about it and you know how it works.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_01: We literally don't make money unless you make money, and we only make 10% of what you make, so we really don't make any money.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_01: That's why we have to book in volume so much because of the 10% model.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_01: So because of that, I'm always, you know, asking those questions.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes when I'm peeling back the information during the interview and they're bad mouthing their other agency or, you know, whatever, whatever, it does end up leading to the fact that, you know, it was their fault.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: And and and they're they're the quote unquote problem child with regards to that.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: And you do have to be careful when you're referring people because I have been referred people in the beginning.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: I thought they were great, and then you know, their communication ends up being very poor.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, they said they were gonna show up at 200 audition and they just didn't.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I had one client once who like I've had a huge amount of stuff happen.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: Like I was the agent who really The Laker girl that with the whole Kobe thing that happened.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_01: So I got the phone call about that.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_01: I repped a guy who ended up uh revealing the ending of Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, I got a call from George Lucas about that.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_01: I've been doing this for almost 20 years, so I've I've a lot has like, you know, become my way.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: I had a client who was on the set of Glee and just disappeared.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_01: And they had to do a search for him on the Parano Paramount Mount block for four hours and they ended finding ended up finding him sleeping behind a costume rack.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: People are crazy.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, so but and these are all instances where these people were rec were recommended to me.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, so you do have to be careful and your reputation, you know, does precede you.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_01: And you just have to have this, you know, you get to be, you get to dance.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_01: You get to be in musical, you get to believe like your your life, you know, as a dancer is so wonderful and bright and you know, so good.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_01: Sure, there's the audition side, sure there's the whatever.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_01: But if you get a chance to work and do what you love, I mean it's it's one of the best things that can ever happen to you.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_01: So you have to be just really, really careful with regards to that.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_01: Because people people will remember you and people will know.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: And and then it also, like you said, it makes the person who recommended you look bad too.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: And then they might recommend someone else who's great, who has a great attitude, but now I'm thinking like, oh, but that last person they sent me was not very, you know, good.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, in the end, just be careful with who you're, you know, you're recommending to the agent as well, because you know, yeah, it will follow you.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_01: I've seen amazing dancers' careers just go down, you know, yeah, the tube because of their their reputation.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: And you also, I want to throw this in, you I know you don't want to do this, but you also have to be careful what you post on social media.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_00: So true.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, because people, because people, especially on the tours, yeah, whether it's a what's a touring musical theater show or it's a touring concert like a Katy Perry or a Jan Jackson or something like that, you have to be really careful with what you post because when you're with these people for a certain amount of time, and especially now that you're being associated with the artist, they have to be careful of who they bring with them.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, they have to be careful of who they're associated with.
1:08:09
SPEAKER_01: And if you are posting, you know, certain things that, you know, would be deemed as inappropriate or hyper aggressive or what it might be, sometimes that is a deciding factor of whether or not they will actually hire you or keep you employed.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_01: I've had dancers who are on tours who were let go because of arguments they had on Facebook or you know, things they retweet we retweeted on Twitter or you know, so you have to take all of that stuff into consideration.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_01: Your your your personality, how you approach things, how you treat people, the digital footprint you leave out there, all of that is taken into consideration when when people are considering working with you or signing you on as a client.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_01: I just want to add one more thing about this whole, you know, agent and casting director and auditioning thing.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_01: That just because you didn't get selected for something, whether that be a job or or agency representation, doesn't mean that you're not good.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean you're not good enough.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: There are so many other deciding factors.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, for us, sometimes we're looking for very specific things at a specific time.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes, you know, during certain uh casting seasons, a certain dance style, you know, might be popular.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_01: Like recently, you know, there was an explosion, explosion with ballet with uh various projects, and then there's an explosion with tap with various projects, you know, and sometimes it's about a certain ethnicity or a certain type of dance or a certain, you know, whatever it is.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes we're taking that into consideration.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: It's not always just about you're an amazing dancer, because there are a lot of amazing dancers that don't work.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of amazing dancers that don't have agents, you know.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_01: So don't concentrate fully on that.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes, don't get it twisted.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_01: Should you still train?
1:09:52
SPEAKER_01: Should you still try and be absolutely always, always hone on your craft, always work on it.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: But just know that there are extra layers on top of just being good when you're auditioning for a job or you're auditioning for representation, and don't get bewildered or frustrated just because an agent didn't pick you at that time.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: Like it took me three times, you know, to get in.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: And I asked, you know, why didn't you pick me?
1:10:16
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Oh, we already had six guys that look like you, that could dance like you, you know, so we just didn't need your type at that time.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't even in my space of thinking that I was like, oh, my space went to I must not be good enough.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: Because that's what you immediately gravitate towards.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_01: Because as a dancer, you still have that training mentality when you leave the studio and then go into the city and so on and so forth.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_01: So just know that and don't be too frustrated.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: And if one agency doesn't pick you, try another one.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_01: And if that one doesn't pick you, try another one.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just like going after a job.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_01: If you don't get that one show, that's great.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_01: Go on to the next one.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_01: You have to be persistent, don't give up and don't be upset if you know someone doesn't pick you.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_01: Just know that there's always a hundred other things going on in addition to your ability level.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_01: So I just want to make sure people were aware of that.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think that's in people's space when they're thinking about this.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: They just they're like, well, I do I'm terrible.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_01: I guess I'm never gonna, you know, it's not, it's not, no, you're not.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, so just be positive and know that there's a lot of other stuff going on.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode all about agents and casting directors.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_04: Be sure to follow our special guests on social media.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_04: You can find Jason at casting by JasonScars and Jim at Wimton76.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Mickey Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, ImCon Podcast, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you look for the podcast.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_04: Be sure to check out IBA affiliated topics Star Talent.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_04: StarTalent will be celebrating their 16th season in 2022.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_04: They are thrilled to continue working with Impact Dance Adjudicators by having IBA judges on their doping panels.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_04: StarTalent holds events in Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_04: And their national finals take place in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina from June 15th through 19th.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_04: Their program was created to offer a positive dance environment for both recreational and competitive dancers.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_04: Their goal is to provide you with an atmosphere that is fun, organized, and fair for dancers, teachers, and parents.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_04: Awards are presented by category and division, and high score awards are separated by three levels.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_04: StarTalent also offers cash awards, scholarships, and title opportunities.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_04: To learn more about Star Talent and register now for their upcoming 2022 season, head to StarTalent Productions.com.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_00: Season three is nearing its end with a few more great episodes coming your way.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for the April edition of QA with Courtney Live, our 100th episode featuring the top 10 studio habits that judges see at competition and dancing with disabilities and special needs, creating inclusivity and dance.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_04: We hope you are continuing to enjoy season three of Making the Impact.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for tuning in.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_04: See you next time.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_04: Until then, keep dancing.