Latest / How to Faith a Life Podcast with Faith Womack / This pastor just blew my mind.

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This pastor just blew my mind. · How to Faith a Life Podcast with Faith Womack

0:00
SPEAKER_01: If you're listening to the How to Faith a Life podcast, where we wrestle with questions on how to live a life of faith, from everything from books to Bible studies, even Bible study tips, this is your place to wrestle with the hard questions and dive deep into what scripture really says for the Christian walk.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Make sure you've subscribed to this podcast and your favorite podcast streaming services.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Review this podcast so other people can find it and share with other believers who want to ask the hard questions.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Now, with all that said, let's begin.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Today I'm so excited because we have Pastor Iam Simpkins and he has a new book coming out, every table and altar.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: When I heard about this book and I saw it coming out, I immediately was like, I need to have a conversation with him about this on my podcast because this is just one of those topics that I think is so under taught about in the church.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: There's a better word for that.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: But as a pastor, somebody that sees the ins and outs of ministry and hurting hearts in the church today, you know Christ's bride and you know what she needs.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: And you're able to step into the pages of this book with us and call us to something deeper, something higher, you know, something really heaven-bound.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really excited for this conversation.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: If you guys don't know him, he's the lead pastor at the Bridge Church just outside of Nashville.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: He and his wife, Katie, have three boys who keep their home incredibly loud and their table beautifully filled.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited just to pick your brain about this book.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: One thing that really stuck out to me, I've been studying a lot patterns in scripture and just that pattern of the gathering and how we really go from a wedding to a wedding, a feast, you know.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: And there's that building, there's the call to be fruitful.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Like this is so typological of like what this is what Christ does.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: But really, what led you to write this book?
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh first off, thank you for having me.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm like sincerely honored.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Second, I love that you you frame that in a in a locale because for me, I I never set out to write a book.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Like everything that's in that book is like birthed out of what we sense got doing at the bridge.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: And this has been over the course of almost five years at this point.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: When I first moved to town, actually, my wife and I moved from Chicago, and I had a really wise mentor say, Hey, before you go, when you get there, you're gonna be really eager to change a lot of things, make some progress.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: His encouragement to me was carve out some real time just to listen to people.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And that I just was such wisdom.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: So when we moved here, there were three kind of pain points that kept emerging in my conversations with people in our community, and it it actually became the subtitle of the book.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: I kept hearing division, distraction, and loneliness.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: And that refrain, you talk about noticing patterns.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, I don't think that's unique to our area, but it certainly is something that I'm hearing over and over again.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of where this motif of the table kind of began to emerge.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: And so I love unpacking scripture, I love taking like a ridiculously deep dive, and I began to notice how much time Jesus spends at tables.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I got kind of embarrassed that I hadn't really noticed it before.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I one book that I read, the guy said something like, In the gospels, Jesus is either at a meal, going to a meal, or leaving a meal.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: If you read the gospels and don't get hungry, you're probably not reading it correctly.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: I was like, How have I never I've been going to church since I was six and I've never I've never thought about that.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: So that that kind of coupled with kind of getting a lay of the land of our kind of new context, and our elder team really beautifully, you know, had asked me to articulate what's the kind of the new mission and vision of this direction that we're now headed.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And I presented to them a table.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: And to see them even go from like confused to reluctant to interested to now like bought in over the course of a couple of years has been so sweet.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: So like everything in the book really does come out of like what we feel like the Lord has helped walk us through here at the bridge.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's been really fun.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people probably would feel that at first, like the confusion around what do you mean, Ian?
3:47
SPEAKER_01: A table, Jesus food.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: That sounds like gluttony, but you show us yeah, that beautiful motif of gathering over a meal, or even just how he he satisfies our inner hungers.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Like you just handle it so well.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: So for anybody that's confused, or like, I don't know if I'm 100% with you, Ian, about this whole meal thing, give us a crash course.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Try and convince the doubters about this beautiful pattern.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of the one of the things that we encourage our church to pray often is Lord, at this table as it is in heaven.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And part of why someone like me finds language like that really helpful is almost when we pray on earth as it is in heaven, it's it's almost easy to uh disconnect, because like, oh yeah, do do it in all the earth, Lord, kind of make it happen out there.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: But if I'm praying a prayer like that at the next meal, the next cup of coffee that I'm having, there's there's a sense of partnership that I'm actually I'm articulating, Lord, help me be a part of bringing grace and mercy and hope to this particular conversation.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: So like it's not just about like, oh, we should be more hospitable.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Although I do believe hospitality is like a deeply biblical concept.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: For me, and I I told our church this, I said, I want you to be sick and tired of hearing me talk about tables because part of what I love about tables is everybody has them.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: It might be like a really grand dining room table in a ballroom, and it might be a folding table in a den who but we all have these ordinary spaces, and I think the kingdom of God, Jesus often gives us models and pictures of the kingdom that are very counter to how we tend to talk.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: He uses analogies like like yeast in bread dough and mustard seeds.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: What if we could capture the imagination of people who maybe don't feel like, oh, I'm never gonna stand on a stage or I'm never gonna like no no, but you you have the spirit of God in you and you you are called to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth in your own ordinary, everyday spaces.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: And what what could be more ordinary, more everyday than our table?
5:51
SPEAKER_00: But to see those places with kingdom imagination, to me, I think is is one, how the kingdom advances, and two, it's like the kind of life that we are all called to participate in.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: So what does that look like though?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, I imagine somebody listening is gonna be like, okay, but what does this practically look like for my day-to-day life, the way that I see God, that I the way I respond to Him in worship?
6:12
SPEAKER_01: What does this actually look like?
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I think it could look like a lot of different things, which has been part of the fun of seeing this take root in our church.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: So, like I have, like you mentioned, three little boys.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: So our houses chaos chaos all the time.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: So if I, you know, if I tried to sit down and have like a 30-minute devotional with my three boys for all three meals, that would likely not end well.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: Like it's someone's always punching someone else or drawing, you know, so it's not just out of like, hey, you need to hold a seminary-level course at your table at all times, but to have meal time be an intentional time.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Like one of the practices that we talk about at the bridge a lot is if you're out to eat and your waiter or waitress comes up to the table and say, Hey, we're about to pray for our meal.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: What could we pray for you about?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: And and just leave it up to the it's amazing how receptive people are to.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying like we're you know, praying Romans Road right then and there, but it's but it's like you're gonna have 21 meals next week anyway.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: What if we just did a couple of them on purpose?
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Like with some kingdom imagination.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's not just like I had a lady come up to me in the lobby, she works a graveyard shift at a local gas station.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: So she's there like late at night, and she ran up to me in the lobby and she was sharing a story about how she had shared the gospel with someone at that gas station counter at one in the morning, led him to Christ, and he's now getting baptized a couple weeks from now uh at the church that that's in near his house in Florida.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And she's in the lobby and she's like shaking, and she goes, I think that counter is my table.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Is that is that what you've been talking about?
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'll be honest, I don't think I imagined a gas station counter when I began thinking about this, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Like she is now seeing with kingdom imagination the spaces that she already occupies and is now bringing a different level of intentionality to those places.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I that that makes my heart so happy because I never in a million years would have drawn up that story.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: But God in his creativity is utilizing like ordinary people in ordinary spaces to bring good news, to bring to bring the gospel.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's been that's been such a joy to see.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I love that picture of a gas station table because usually when I go inside of a gas station, I feel dirty.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get in, get out.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to make small talk.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Don't make eye contact, yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Let's just wrap right.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: And the light of Jesus, praise the Lord, that even in the dirtiest, darkest places.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, how beautiful.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: And I also I will say, I get it.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: We have only two boys, but still, I can't imagine with three.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: So I get it.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: See, I'm the oldest to seven, so I'm used to it.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: This is this has been most of my life.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: So wow, that's so cool though.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: Praise the Lord.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: All right.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: You writed about something really interesting.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: You talk about how um inviting people to tables and Jesus even flipped tables, but there's like that presence, hospitality, and confrontation.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: And you said that there aren't different ministries, but they're like the same thing, symphony.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Will you explain that a little bit more?
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Like what exactly is going on when we have a meal and we're not just making small talk?
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, we're not scrolling on our phones, like what's really happening.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Man, I I don't want to make predictions, but I think the more the internet becomes artificial, like everyone's talking AI right now, I think the more artificial online becomes, the more people are gonna crave what's authentic.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: And the the more that we're gonna struggle to believe anything we see on a screen, I just think the more imperative it is that the church becomes recommitted to incarnational ministry, to the ministry of presence and embodiment.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think it is, you know, Brene Brown says, people are hard to hate up close.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: I just think that's such a profound, that's a profound observation because it's it's really easy to vilify people from the safety of a screen.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, you are the sum of how you voted, or what denomination you're a part of, or what part of the country you're from.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: It's so easy to kind of stiff arm and categorize.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think in a lot of ways, that's where tribalism comes from.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Is like uh you're in, you're out, and anyone who doesn't look, talk, act, think, vote, or believe like I do, is the enemy.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the other person.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think we've probably all shared a meal or a cup of coffee with somebody that maybe we had one opinion of, and over the course of 30 minutes, you're like, Oh, I think we still disagree on this topic, but I have a lot more understanding how you came to that conclusion or how you formed that belief.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: I think we are living at a moment right now where I think it it is imperative for the church to lead the way in meaningful incarnational presence.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And like my buddy Hugh, he has this phrase that I love.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: He says, Kingdom kingdom work is like archaeology.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: It's we're never bringing Jesus anywhere.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Jesus is already there, he's he's already working, he's already active.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Our our job as followers of Jesus is to unearth where it is that he's already at work.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: That looks a lot like leading with curiosity, like meaningful curiosity, not like not gotcha curiosity, where I'm gonna ask you this question so that I can dunk on you.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's so much of what online interactions are right now is how can I back you into a corner so I can slam dunk over you and then rally the people that already agree with what I believe.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't I don't think that's moving the needle at all in any kind of meaningful way.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: So again, and I appreciate you saying that because I think Kingdom Hospitality is more than just a good hang.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: It's gotta be more than just kumbaya, but it doesn't mean that we need to always be trying to back whoever we think is our opponent into some sort of theological corner so we can like strong arm them into belief.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like providing meaningful space where curiosity actually has room to breathe.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And I I just don't think we're seeing a lot of that online right now.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I don't think we see Jesus do that, like you talk about.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: So I got a question because I know a lot of my audience, we love theology.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you used a funny term with some R's.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: I think there was some alliteration, but you said like going really deep.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: And then so we love doing that.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: We love going really deep.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: A lot of us have interacted with discernment ministry, what essentially really quickly becomes cancel culture.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Um of course Jesus warns a ton about false teachers.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Of course, Jesus warns a ton about, you know, the narrow way versus wide way, of course, all of those things.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: But what's the line then, Pastor Ian, about can I get a meal with this person if I'm not sure if they're a false teacher or I'm not sure if I can agree with them on everything?
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, where do we kind of say maybe that's not the right person to gather a meal or gather with them over a meal with?
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's a really wise question.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: And people have asked that same question in our church, which I think is really, really prudent because you know, we talk a lot about forgiveness and reconciliation not being the same thing.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: There's certainly people that I believe we're called to forgive, but we we do not need to be in relationship with anymore.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: I think of survivors of abuse and and real trauma, and you know, so I I'm not in any way saying, like, well, too bad, gotta share a meal with them.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: I think there also is, at least in my own life, you ever have this moment where you realize that the Holy Spirit isn't moving nearly as fast as you'd like him to be?
13:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, like come on, can we uh can we transform this heart?
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, myself in others all the all the time.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: I I really do think if we take seriously the yeast and bread dough analogy, that does seem to imply the kingdom's often gonna move a lot slower than we are comfortable with.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: I I'd say that spiritual formation is way more crockpot than microwave.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Like I always want to like microwave results or my own transformation or my own maturity.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: The way of Jesus does not seem nearly as hurried as I am.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, absolutely, this calls for discernment, withom, your own conscience, what you know, a trusted gospel community is speaking into your life.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: I think all of that, what scripture says, all of that matters significantly.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: I also find it fascinating that Jesus seems to get into some of his worst trouble with the religious elite because of who he ate with.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't just what he said, although that's part of it.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even just what he did, although that was part of it.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the religious leaders accuse him of being a drunk and a glutton.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: You you don't get called a drunk and a glutton by just occasionally hanging out with quote unquote that crowd.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Like he was apparently doing it so regularly that the pious elite were like, no, this can be the guy.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: This look at how many parties he's going to.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: So I read stories like that and I think, man, when was the last time I made religious people uncomfortable by who I was breaking bread with?
14:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm and I'm saying that as a pastor.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: It is, it is really candidly, it is really easy for me to spend 100% of my social time with other Christians.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: That's not hard to do.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: So much of my world exists in in church world.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: It it is a a challenge for me to actively swim upstream in that regard.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: So obviously, I think there's wisdom that's needed, discernment that's needed.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: I do wonder though, if at times perhaps part of how we ended up where we did in the West is Christians just got really content with their own holy huddles.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, we'll let the professional Christians handle anything that looks like evangelism.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: I just don't see that picture of the New Testament at all.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would agree.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: I also think, not that I could possibly add to that.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: That was so good.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, thanks.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of people in the online spaces really struggle with, like, okay, if they have a different view of baptism than me, can I still trust them?
15:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, like some of like the super minor issues that are that are made to be a big deal when you like get into the theological nuances or denominationally, like that starts to feel like a big deal.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: But it's really not.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Like we will be worshiping with them hand in hand in heaven, and therefore we should practice having meals with them.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, like we're gonna be doing that in heaven.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I've even had people push back with me on like podcasts I've been on or people I've had on my podcasts, or you know, all those kinds of things.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, do you agree with it?
15:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, there's no I can't even agree with myself 100%.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: But man, can we gather over a meal and talk about this kingdom that isn't ours, that's not our denominations, you know?
16:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I think this is so important to have pastors like you encourage us, go have those meals.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: It reminds me, I had a professor who used to be homeless on the streets doing drugs.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Corbett, he was wonderful, and he really encouraged us, you know, don't give money, maybe necessarily to the homeless people on the streets, because I was one of them and I know what we did with it.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: But take him out to a meal.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: And I remember being like, I'm an 18-year-old girl.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Who am I to invite Joe Bob to, you know, in and out burger with me?
16:35
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, it can be as simple as handing him a burger and sitting down and eating that.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: But he to he talked about how sitting down and eating a meal with that person, that might be the one time that week that they're looked in the eyes and treated as an equal.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: You're both eating together.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: And that made me so view every other time I've seen a homeless person eating on the side of the road or given food, you know, they're they're still alone.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: But there's that, and you talk about this, like being together and how I guess heaven-bound that is.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Will you share a little bit more about that?
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Like for somebody that's like, well, I do already eat meals with people and I don't really see the fruit of that, you know?
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I really appreciate the honesty in what you just shared too, because even the last phrase you use, I don't see the fruit in it.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: To me, again, that often has to do with my own impatience, the pace of how God works.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, I it's so easy for me to decide something's not worth my time that I'm not seeing the ROI immediately.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, like you see the book of Acts, like 3,000 were added to their number.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a that's a big deal.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Like we should celebrate that.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: The vast majority, like the early church took shape not buying pulpits, not on stages, or on tables.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: It was like this radical hospitality.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: In fact, we even have people in antiquity who wrote about these first Christians who were not Christians, were not a fan of Christians, and would write things like, they take care of not only their poor, but our poor as well.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you stop a movement like that where they're saying, Yeah, there's a seat with your name on it?
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, even people that are like quote unquote outside their camp or quote unquote outside their tribe or don't look exactly like they do.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: That was fairly scandalous in the first century.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: And I do think there is a it's a big difference between entertaining and hospitality.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: I do feel like we've kind of conflated those two, where like entertaining is about I have you into my home, and of course the home is spotless, and I'm gonna impress you with my decor and my cooking.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's beautiful.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: I in fact, I think some people have a gift for that.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Hospitality is way more about man, can I let me just make space for some kind of meaningful?
18:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's interesting that the word hospitality and hospital have the same derivative, they come from the same root word because when done correctly, they both lead to healing.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the aim.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: It's not just let me wow you with my like big dramatic expression of hospitality, but to like point you to healing, point you to so it's not just oh I yeah, I do a lot of social things around the table.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Jesus was invited to a lot of parties, but he was way more than just a good hang.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Like he's calling people to restoration and to healing and to sin no more, and to like he's he's willing to confront and call out what is busted up in other people, which I think has to challenge us.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: If if all we're doing, if people read the book and all they conclude is like, oh, I guess I should be more social.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I think that drastically misses like the vision that Jesus invites us into.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: But I do think it's worth remembering.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: I think it's Romans 6.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: It says something like, It's his loving kindness that leads us to repentance.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh it feels like we've we've become unconvinced that loving kindness actually moves the needle at all when it's like right there, repeatedly in the ministry of Jesus, who is touching lepers when he doesn't need to.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: He's looking them in the eye.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you know that like over half of the miracles of Jesus were interruptions?
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Like he over half of this of the stories that we, you know, we write Vegetails episodes about, like he was going somewhere else.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: He had a different agenda, a different plan, and someone interrupted him.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't even know how interruptible we are as a people.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's really, really hard for me to reconcile that as someone who loves to get stuff done.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I love I like a packed calendar.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: It's like I feel like the Lord's been convicted me in this season.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, I you you wouldn't even have space in your calendar for me to interrupt you if I wanted.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's even living with that kind of awareness, that kind of posture to me is much more the heartbeat of what like biblical hospitality actually looks like.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: What would you say to the person that's like, I don't know how to have meals with somebody and call them to Jesus without ruining the vibe, ruining the fellowship, ruining the joy, you know?
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Because there's a part of me that feels that.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: I just had my sister live with us for a couple years and she just moved out.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And there was a lot of areas where we definitely disagree, definitely theologically, socio, politically, like just all these different ways.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: But yet we could agree on so much that in some ways it was hard to bring up the ways that we disagreed because it was like, I don't want to spoil this, you know?
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Yep, I totally get that.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: I think that's actually really important to call out too, because when we first started talking about tables as an elder team, there was one elder I was so proud of him for saying this.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Because he said in a meeting, he said, Listen, I'll have Christians at my table seven days a week, no problem.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: He said, I'm I'm actually kind of terrified to talk to my non-Christian friends about Jesus.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And he kind of paused and I looked across the room and I said, Does anyone else feel that way?
21:35
SPEAKER_00: And like a bunch of hands went up.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, if all if the elders of our church feel that way, is it possible that a lot of people in our church feel the same way too?
21:43
SPEAKER_00: So, like, that gave me just so much empathy because like being a pastor, I was I was just joking about this with somebody yesterday.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Like on a plane, if a stranger sits next to you and they ask, What do you do?
21:54
SPEAKER_00: answering pastor will get you one of two responses.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Either they'll never they'll never speak to you again.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Or they're gonna share with you their entire life story.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Like those those tends to be so I have an odd I'm in an odd place because my my very vocation comes with a lot of subtext and a lot of preconceived notions.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But I also think, and I I didn't put this in the book, but I I created a cheesy little acronym uh to help people kind of process through what that looks like.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: And the acronym is tables, and so the T is like begin with thanks, just beginning first with a posture of gratitude for this person for this opportunity.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the A is ask to actually ask the Lord.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: James one says, anyone who lacks wisdom should ask for it.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, help me to help me to be a presence for this person without making it weird or without like ruining the friendship.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh the B is bless.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, what if we began first with a posture of how do I bless this person rather than trying to like convince them of anything?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: The L is listen.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: This is this should go without saying, but like we are not a listening culture right now.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And uh David Augsburger once said that for the average person, being listened to is so close to being loved that it is almost indistinguishable.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I just think that's so wise.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: The E is engage, it's like actively engaged in what it is they're sharing and not just like having your you know your bulleted list of like apologetic points.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: And the last letter S, that's that one is is stands for share.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: It's after we've done all of those things that we then now have perhaps earned the right or the uh created the space to, hey, can I share a bit of what God is doing in my life?
23:28
SPEAKER_00: It's less like, hey, can I talk about the Shroud of Turin with you real quick and why Dead Sea Scrolls as the dessert is coming, real quick?
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Can we yeah, can we let's talk Dead Sea Scrolls?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: It's like, man, can I just share with you some of what I feel like God is teaching me or showing me?
23:42
SPEAKER_00: That to me is a a much more effective way of like bringing the kingdom of heaven to earth than it is, man, how do I I'm gonna sneak attack a whole apologetic avalance to try and convince you by the end of this meal that I'm right and you're wrong, which I think is is hard for us, you know, overachieving types that like always want to like keep the ball moving down the field.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Do you still feel like you have just real talk conversations with people and you're like, oh, I guess I I honestly you need to write a second book about God's ROI and how he doesn't move as fast as we do, but where you're like, I don't feel like this conversation went how I wanted it to, or I really wish they asked me this question, or they were more interested in my faith, or like do you have those or oh all the time all the time.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, okay.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: All the time.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: I I honestly I clearly I was just chatting about this on Monday with our staff.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: The uh, and I know it's cliche, but Paul says, Man, some plant, some water, but only God brings the growth.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't like let us off the hook.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: We are st we are still the plant, we are still the water, but at the end of the day, like even in preaching, if I could get really honest, I spent a lot of my early years of preaching carrying a ton of the weight of feeling like it was my responsibility to like flip the light on in other people's souls.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: And I I stumbled across this idea somewhere in my notes.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: I'd be curious to know if this makes sense.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: I I just wrote, I can illustrate, but only God can illuminate.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Like it is my responsibility to like, oh, I'm gonna I want to be diligent in my study and I want to like bring uh relevant illustrations to help kind of frame what this biblical text is showing us.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: I can illustrate all day long.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, I I actually can't turn the light on in your soul.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: That's God's work.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: So that actually, in many ways, lowers the collective blood pressure.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that I have to be any less faithful with whatever I feel like God's entrusted me with.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, like the people listening, you you I believe that you are where you're at on purpose for a purpose.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: You live in a particular neighborhood, you have a particular social circle, you maybe have a particular job or a particular background.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: You have access to people that you and I will never have access to.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And even if we did, they might not listen to either of us in a million years, but they might listen to you.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: You you're there on purpose.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: So, like, I'm just so convinced that that is at an ontological level true of every follower of Jesus.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: Even if we feel like, man, after 30 years, I feel like I just did a lot of planting and watering, and I never actually got to see the growth.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, I've been doing this too long now to not believe that God is still at work, even if it's completely invisible to my eyesight.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: And to trust him with that, not holding my value in the fruit I see or my.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay, somebody slam that into my head.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Do it across my forehead.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Man, I mean, that's your next book, man.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Like God's ROI, God's kingdom, whatever that, however you want to word it.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, I'm gonna hijack my own podcast really quickly to give a shout out to this sponsor, which is honestly many of you guys.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: This entire ministry is sourced by you guys, funded by y'all.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: I have a Patreon page, which is just a crowdfunding website where everyday people like you guys join me in super in-depth studies.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So while you might know me from podcasts or YouTube or maybe even my silly Instagram or TikToks, the majority of my time I actually spend on Patreon studies.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: That's where we get to go super in-depth.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Instead of being controlled by algorithms, it's just content for the people and with the people.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I love it.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: It's honestly the best.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: We just started small groups, which has been really cool.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: We're finishing up this four-year-long series, going through the Psalms super in-depth every single week, and that will just live there on Patreon.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: And they get to like re-watch them and go back through them if they want to.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: And if you join today, we'll be there and we're starting a new one through the paraboles.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And then every year we have a whole other series that we're going through that I share vlogs and things going on in my life.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: And so it's really just the means by which this super public online ministry with a lot of people can be made a lot more intimate, one-on-one, and we can just go so much deeper.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: So if you like the stuff I come out with and you want to do more in-depth Bible studies with me, and honestly just find a community of fellow like-minded believers that truly want to geek out on that Greek or Hebrew word, then Patreon's the place for you.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: It's patreon.com forward slash how to faith a life, literally the name of this podcast.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, there's a million and one different studies, and they'll all just live there for years to come.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, they get the best bang for your buck, join the top tier, and you get free stickers every single month, as well as access to all the things.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: I would love to see you there.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: Make sure to mention in the chat that you came from the podcast.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: And speaking of, let's get back to the podcast.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: You also talk about how Jesus is like a fighter and not in like a I'm gonna punch you upside the head, which is what I initially thought you meant.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Will you share a little bit about that?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that adds a whole other dimension to this.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: I think it is funny because this shouldn't surprise me, but Jesus is often kind of like hyper categorized and a kind of very binary.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: He's either all kumbaya, like a real good hang, cool with everybody and everything, or or the inverse is someone like, yeah, but he also flipped tables.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Like he don't forget Jesus flipped tables.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: I like to just play the ratio game.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Like Jesus does flip tables, but he sat at way more tables than he flipped.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: So like before we, before we like, you know, hang our entire theological hat on like he flipped tables, I'm gonna flip tables.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, yeah, Steve, you're flipping tables every week, though.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: That feels like a bit like it's a little, you know, he did, you're right.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: But like what I think is so interesting is like he like he delivers these woes to the religious leaders that are like really intense, but even in their intensity, like you don't tend to warn people you don't care about.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
29:17
SPEAKER_00: If it was just, oh, these people are dead to me and who cares.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that's another thing that bumps me out that Jesus is often categorized as like despising the religious elite.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Now he does say some intense things, he calls them a brood of vipers.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: He says, like, yeah, it'd be better to have a millstone tied around your neck, like that'll get you canceled in 2026.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But he also takes the time to issue these warnings, these woes, I believe, because deep down he's like, he longs for them to get it too.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: It's not just you're too far gone, you're you're too stuck in your own piety.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: But that I think is a pretty unpopular position to hold that Jesus obviously like welcomes the children, gives sight to the blind, I mean, gives rest to the weary, and also is seemingly willing to go ten toes down to say this is not alright.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: This is this is not okay.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: And if we are to follow in the way of Jesus, it cannot simply be a kumbaya stroll in the park, everything is sunshine and rainbows.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: I do believe we're called to be a people of hope.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's an important kind of caveat.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think there's a lot of Christians that seem to kind of make their identity around just being a bummer all the time.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know if that's compelling where you live.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: That to me is hard, hard to make a theological case.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: But Jesus seems to, and these are the parts that don't make the flannel graphs.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: I've I don't think I've seen a watercolor painting of Jesus flipping tables and giving warnings, but he does.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's I mean, red letter stuff.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: So you have to reconcile.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Being a follower of Jesus means a wide long table, and yet also the willingness to say hard things.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's that it's that truth and grace tension that I think we're we're always gonna feel to some degree this side of eternity.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: And not being the Steve, but also still standing for what you know to be true is a hard line, but it requires that spiritual maturity that I think, yeah, we all get to grow in, but it's hard.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: But it's easier to hold those things when you've when you have relational equity with the people that you hold them with.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Like I have friends in my life that we could not be more different just in every in every category, but there's like a there's a shared, at the very least, understanding.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, I'll be honest, like I I have friends that'll rag me, like, oh, we gotta who invited the pastor, what a what a wet blanket.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I I understand that.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: But they they also know there's a certain level, and it's been beautiful to see the fruit of some of that over the years, where for 17 years they made fun of me for holding this conviction, and then for whatever reason, year 18, they're like, Hey, can I can I bend your ear about something you said in 2006?
31:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Really?
31:56
SPEAKER_00: You remember that?
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I I remember you being the only person in my friend group that actually raised a concern about X, Y, or Z.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm having second thoughts.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: I just think that's the slow work of the kingdom.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: It's not me turning my nose up at them, making them feel like they're less than, but it's like, no, no, I have a legitimate problem with that.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And you're an adult person with agency, but at the end of the day, if you ever want to know more, here's where I land on that.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I I've seen the fruit of that in ways that I I never could have guessed.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's been that's been a grace to me, I think.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Are you like the first person?
32:27
SPEAKER_01: I my husband experiences this.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Like he might not get invited to the wedding or to the rager, but he is the first person, usually, that they text or call when someone's going through a divorce or cancer or something like that.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Is it yeah, yeah.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: It is one of the the very unique blessings and weights of being a pastor, is you get invited behind the curtain very quickly in some cases.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: And you also get a front row seat to the highest highs and the lowest lows.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I I was just sharing with somebody the other day, so sometime last year, I got uh I got called by a family to meet them at the hospital because they needed to take a young mother off of life support.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And it was, I mean, I won't lie, it was so heavy.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And she she had three little boys, I have three little boys.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Like it just was so and they and they asked me to be there to provide some some kind of presence, some kind of hope.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: So I was with them for a couple of hours, and then I drove straight from the hospital to the church where we were having a celebration for all of our small group leaders for like a great group semester, and those two events were 60 minutes from each other.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is often how ministry is is like you're you're invited behind the veil of their darkest moment, their heaviest season.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: And yet also, I mean, I get a front row seat to like life change and marriages being restored and like kids coming home.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
33:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's like they b they both belong.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: It's both they both belong in the kingdom of God.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think I I have been so grateful for those texts in the middle of the night.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I know I've been giving you a hard time, but like right now the bottom dropped out, and you're the only person I could think of who might have any any semblance of hope to offer me.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: And I I feel very grateful for that.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: But that's again, that's you know, what Eugene Peterson calls a long obedience in the same direction.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: That's playing, that's playing the long game in a lot of these relationships.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: Again, that's not to say there's not a place for you know, we're seeing a lot of these sort of like mass baptisms and mass revival.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm not anti-any of that.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: I just think kingdom work often looks much slower and much more ordinary than any of us have patience for.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Now, for another ordinary, I know our time's wrapping up, but we have to talk about communion because you do a beautiful job of tying it all in.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Even if I try and like set you up for it, I feel like I'm just gonna volley poorly.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: But Jesus says he's the bread of life and then he calls us to communion.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Talk about what this looks like for those of us who, I don't know, the average church does it like every like eight weeks or something like that, right?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, what does that actually look like on the day-to-day for Christians, our a biblical understanding of the Lord's Supper, even for the early church?
35:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I do want to be careful to not make it sound like I've like narrowed the theological discussion on I know that there's probably plenty of people, even in your audience, that disagree on like what is communion, what is happening at communion, like like theologically, or like what it is that we're I I think there's a lot of space for disagreement there.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: I have, you know, Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters that would not land in the same place that I do.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: I do find it really interesting though, and this is not a hot take, but hours before his crucifixion, Jesus what Jesus is not doing is giving one more sermon or performing one more miracle.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: What he chooses to do is to share a meal, is to break bread.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think that alone is pretty scandalous.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, out of all that, that's not what I would be doing.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: If I if my time was short, I had a few hours left.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that like a meal is the first thing that I would go to.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And I just think I think that alone is compelling.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I also think when we talk about, because at the bridge, uh, we receive communion every week.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: And part of what I love about that is it's something that the entire community like embodies together.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: We actually eat something, we actually drink something.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: It's not just I'm hearing the proclamation of something, as important as that is, but there is an embodiment of it, and it's you know, and I tell them there's nothing really special about this particular kind of juice or this bread or whatever.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: But the table of Jesus is not for the worthy, it's for the hungry.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: And so this idea that we come not with arms full of like all the great things that I can do for Jesus, we come with arms empty every week as a recognition that man, while I while I was still a sinner, Christ died for me.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: This bread and this cup, he says, I'm body and blood given for you.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Like he, it's not being taken from me.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm laying it down.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: And I love what the apostle Paul says.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if this made the book, to be honest.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: He said, When we eat this bread and drink this cup, is it not a participation?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Like that idea of it's not just like, okay, thanks, Jesus, I'll see you next Sunday.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: It is this reminder that oh, I'm invited to participate in his work in the world.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: When I eat this bread, drink this cup, it's not just appreciation for something that Jesus did, but it's stepping into what he's doing.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think that for me, as like a kind of weekly liturgy that we as the body of Jesus celebrate together.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: There's not a Sunday that goes by that I don't need that reminder in some way, shape, or form.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not just that I've been reconciled to God, it's that I've also been reconciled to my brothers and sisters.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: We tend to really only focus on the vertical when there's most certainly a horizontal aspect as well.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: And that to me has become, yeah, one of my one of my favorite things that we consistently do as a church.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean though for like the average Sally Joe Jean?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Well, my church never does communion.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Here in Dallas, I feel like we're one of the only churches that does regular communion.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes it's like once a year.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: And and like what does that mean if I'm wanting to like get a meal with my pastor or my small group leader or that missionary or that person that works at my work that is a non-believer?
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, what does it actually look like for the average believer knowing that we're called to this, but not even knowing like how to begin?
38:10
SPEAKER_01: You know?
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm a big believer in uh beginning smaller than you think you need to.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like you notice how every January everybody's like, okay, 2026, I'm gonna work out 47 times a week and I'm gonna only and you're like, no, you're not.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: What do you like?
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you start off going for a walk?
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, just start start there.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: So like it's a little, it's a little cliche, but part of what I'll say to our church is you're gonna have 21 meals next week, most of us on average.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: What if you did just one of them on purpose?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: So like it's not just which again for me, my I tend to veer towards the big and the dramatic.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to do something really profound for the kingdom.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: My buddy's got this sign over his kitchen sink that says, Everyone wants a revolution, no one wants to do the dishes.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: And I I I feel that so deeply because I'm the guy that's like big, dramatic.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: When more often than not, what's being overlooked is like, I'm not being faithful in these little ordinary ups.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: So, like, we'll often say, Who's your one of 21?
39:08
SPEAKER_00: When you look at next week, what's the one meal you're gonna have with some kind of like missional intention?
39:14
SPEAKER_00: And and again, cards on the table, this will not always go well.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: People will decline, people will not want to come, people might bogart the entire interaction.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: But I I have seen too much fruit from people who have courageously said, okay, because I believe this was important to the way of Jesus and I want to follow in his ways, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it even though I'm uncomfortable, I'm gonna lean in.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Even like, this is a silly principle, but it's been helpful for me.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: Focus more on being interested than being interesting.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of like pressure when we do anything one-on-one with somebody, like, oh, I want to really impress them.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: I want to wow them.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: I hope I'm compelling or interesting.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think if we focus on being interested, like genuinely curious about this person that I believe that God has put across the table for me, if I focus on that rather than trying to be impressive to them, I just think it leads to much more fruitful places.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: So there's a little bit of just like a Nike just do it, just start somewhere and go with eyes wide open.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it might not always go well.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: It might not look like a revival in your whole neighborhood, but I do believe it will be planting a seed in someone's heart that God cares about.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you've grown and changed just by having that curiosity, gathering with other people?
40:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's I'll tell you what, it's really humbling to like feel like in some sense you've become the table guy.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Cause I there's accountability that comes with that.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I you can't write a book about it and then be like, ah, I just want to be alone right now.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: That's not to say I like I'm technically an introvert.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: There are certainly times where I'm like, I need to not be around people, but the curiosity thing, I actually think curiosity like begets more curiosity.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's kind of like a muscle that can feel real clunky if you've not actually worked out that part yet.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: But the more that you like lead with that, the more you realize, oh man, I I I think I might have had you totally wrong.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Or I think I might have brought more presuppositions to this interaction than I realized.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: You you start to stack those on each other, it becomes, I don't know, I can't imagine not leading with that now.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: It's like there's so many leadership books right now about confidence and competence.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think those things matter.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: I would love to see a title wave of books about curiosity and humility.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I think I think those are in short supply right now.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And when I think about the leaders who have been most formative for me over the years, curiosity in many ways is the through line.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody who, oh, you actually care about my life.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: You're not just trying to impart like some Yoda haiku that I can like tweet, tweet, you know what I mean?
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Like you're actually asking about my marriage and my role as a father.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, what a what a novel idea.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: So, like, I've been the recipient of some really, really wise and gracious men and women so many times that now it's like, oh, if if I could in any way be that for somebody else, that's the path I want to take.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you mirror Jesus well by doing that and making people feel seen and also equally called.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a I have a role in this, I have some agency, I have a calling and sending us out.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: So I highly recommend.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: I think this is exactly what our church today needs, guys.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: Again, it's every table and altar, reclaiming connection in a world of division, destruction, and loneliness.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: And it hits bookshelves September 29th.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: So definitely go check it out.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Ian Simpkins, I'm saying that right, right?
42:30
SPEAKER_01: You 100% nailed it.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Every so often I like mispronounce people's last names, and I'm like, great, that's in a recording, you know.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Man, this was so good just to pick your brain.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I feel like I need to reread it just to like now that I have your narrative, you know, like again, slow down, faith.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: It's not about what you want out of, you know, it's just, oh, I need to every, you know, year probably a review of what am I doing, you know, when I gather over a meal with somebody.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: So so good.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: So incredibly convicting.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on and sharing about this book and your heart for the table.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: But if anybody is in Nashville and you do not have a church home, I'm going to personally challenge you.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: You've listened to this entire podcast, and I know you want to be with a body of believers.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Go ahead and go check out the bridge church.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: I think it just might be exactly what you have been looking for.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for coming on.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Where can people find you?
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy, I am so bad at this part.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Ian's Ianstimpkins.com, every tableandal.com, and I guess Instagram.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Is that still a thing?
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Just Ian Simpkins at Instagram.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: All right, rock on.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: So much fun.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: You've been listening to the How to Faith a Life podcast with your girl, Faith Womack.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: During seasons, episodes go up every Wednesday, and they're found everywhere podcasts are posted.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: I personally love Spotify.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: Make sure to hit subscribe and leave a review that really helps other people to find it.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: But if you want to hang out with me and do in-depth Bible studies, like I talked about earlier, you're gonna want to find me on Patreon.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: That's where I spend most of my time teaching with weekly Bible studies, longer form teaching, behind the scenes content, and honestly, just a great community of awesome believers who love God's word and want to go deeper.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: It's patreon.com forward slash how to faith the life and Faith Womack everywhere else online.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Bye guys.