Latest / Books4Guys / Lessons From the Mat: Martial Arts Principles for Success in Business & Life | Benjamin Chen

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Lessons From the Mat: Martial Arts Principles for Success in Business & Life | Benjamin Chen · Books4Guys

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've spent a lot of time out there.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I I do.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I live, you know, I live out here and I I love training out here.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And but I also travel quite a bit too.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I can imagine.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, it's a great place to train and and work and live.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think I'll be out there at some point within the next few months.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to get to Southern California and and do some more exploring.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've only been out there a couple times.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I'm a I'm a southeastern guy.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always in like Atlanta, which I know you've spent some time there.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Georgia, Tennessee, Florida.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always around these states, but I I enjoy the West Coast too, so I can appreciate that.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: But no, Ben, man, I'm so excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got your book on the on the website, and I've got your book right here.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure everybody can see it.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Lessons from the Mat, the 12 martial arts principles that will help you succeed in business and in life.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Ben, you've done a lot of cool things, man.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: If anyone has followed you, you know, if they're connected with you on LinkedIn, if they're familiar with your story, you've done a lot of things.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've helped raise capital, you've run organizations.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, your martial arts background is incredible too.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love just for you to share just a little bit about your story and your journey and just how you intertwined the principles of martial arts into business and and why you I don't know what motivated you to put that framework together to share with others.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I think Chris, you know, I'm 60 now, and I, you know, I characterize my life as, you know, a lot of just the journey has been lots of ups and downs.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I think I've been really lucky to be surrounded by a lot of great people, a lot of great mentors, and they've really helped influence my journey.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, as you mentioned, I've had the opportunity to be someone that has started companies, someone that has worked in large corporate environments.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've led a number of teams to to really, I think, achieve really incredible results.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And along that way, I've also been an avid martial artist.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I've been training for over 40 years, and most recently in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for the last 13.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really feel like, you know, life is about one thing.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't I don't think about the notion of compartmentalizing a thing and separating it from the others, like, oh, my work is separate from my my life.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really for me, it's it's a little too disjointed.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: I need everything to be cohesive.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So naturally my martial arts training, you know, has has fused with my other daily life activities, whether it's in dealing with my daughter or dealing with a meeting in a boardroom.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's been interesting about my life is that I really have been able to reflect on the things that I think have helped make me successful.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've realized that those core tenants, those first principles that I rely on, you know, can really be looked at from a martial arts perspective.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's I I love that you say that.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you led off with mentors and how impactful others have been on yourself.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I've taken away from interviewing and talking with a lot of people like yourself who are, you know, as from the outside, we we see someone like yourself very successful, have accomplished a lot of things.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: But every person I've talked to, they always credit other people for helping instill and coach them and train them and provide insights and guidance.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you obviously you play a part in that too, as being receptive to learning from others and staying curious.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I seem that that just seems to be the blueprint on how to accomplish great things, is it continuously learning and being open to that, and then you get to that level and you get to help others along the way, which is awesome.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you started with that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think it's cool too.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I you did martial arts, and I'm a former football athlete.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of things that I incorporate into my work comes from playing sports and learning from coaches and teammates.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is interesting that when you find a passion that requires discipline and training, you can you can find little nuggets of information in a similar way that you can say, huh, this this can translate to my family, this can translate to my work.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I agree with you, a lot of that stuff people say like separate, but it's hard to separate.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're you you got so much going on, like work is a part of life, family's a part of work, like you got to figure out a way to to cohesively bring it together.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I I agree with your approach on how to do that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: But Ben, you kind of let into the principles.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, people can see the 12 martial arts principles that would help you succeed.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of those principles that you talk about in the book?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And especially the ones that maybe for people like myself, like I haven't done a lot of martial arts.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I watch fighting and I and I've heard it, and I know friends that do it, not, but I'm not that familiar with the practice.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So for someone like me, what are some of those principles that you would say, hey Chris, these are some that you could identify with and take and incorporate, even if you haven't d practiced, you know, the this art form?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think our natural inclination when we're confronted with a force, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's a a difficult life decision or someone's actually, you're in the alley and someone's actually trying to confront you, your natural inclination is to essentially immediately do force for force.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: That that's that's the first natural instinct that, oh, I'm just gonna, you know, they they really, you know, made me look bad.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go after them, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not to say that that utilizing force is not the is not incorrect, but it's really about having the opportunity to see what is really in front of you.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I'll give you an example, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter opens the refrigerator and takes out a jar of peanut butter, the glass jar falls on the floor, it shatters, it creates a big gooey mess.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I see it happen.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she's like four years old.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is this the moment that I'm going to use force for force?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there is this kind of thing that I think we all need in order to to really make good decisions, it's a pause, right?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's a stillness.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what I like to tell people, and this is the first chapter of my book, is I call it the stillness muscle.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're looking through, you know, a camera lens and you're holding the camera and you're trying to take the photo, if the camera is moving around a lot, right, the photo is fuzzy.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: You never get the the clear shot.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: You never really see what's in front of you.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so it takes a moment to not react, but to understand what is really in front of me, just a slight pause, and then to say, okay, this is what's really here right now.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: A four-year-old daughter of mine made it had an accident.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't intentional.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: She was operating her best efforts, her little hands couldn't hold the jar correctly, an accident happened.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that this one small detail has changed my life.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because my first instinct as my ego has been attacked is to go forth and force.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: But if I could separate myself from that for a brief moment, because we all need egos, it's just I just need to see what really happened.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is my life being threatened?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, did did somebody, you know, damage me in some incredible way?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I get it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: The dry cleaners messed up my shirt.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it it's something like that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's the simplest thing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that that perhaps is the most important thing is to be able to have the stillness.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: To basically just for a brief moment empty my mind, focus on what is really in front of me, and see what is really there.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a great first point, Ben, because I'm thinking of probably hundreds of examples of of where society today, especially, we don't take a lot of time to pause.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're triggered very easily.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: We think we should fire off a tweet or a response to a post we see, or somebody says something, someone cuts us off.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we see over and over again, too, situations where people come back and they say, Okay, I didn't have all the information, I shouldn't have said this, or I shouldn't have done this action, you know, to cause harm to someone else.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, not everyone, but we see it time and time again where people react before they think, when really, like you said, if you took a second to pause, you may change your approach or your overall thought to the situation in general, general, because it may be a little bit different than what you initial, what initially jolts you up.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I've been practicing a lot over the last few years, too, just personal development.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Looking at things from someone else's view and perspective to see if what triggered me was actually what they were intentionally trying to do, because most of the time it's not.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they say something that I take personal, but really that's on me more than it is them.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't meaning any harm by it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when I kind of switched the way I think about it, I'm like, oh, okay, there's no reason to be uptight about that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: But that is something a lot of us have to practice.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's something we have to really think about because it, like you said, our first initial thing that we want to do is to react.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a tough thing to practice.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: It can be, you know.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of my mentors, one of my instructors, a gentleman that that teaches uh Hapkido, which is a Korean form of Krav Maga, maybe if you the closest comparison I can think to it, is, you know, uh Master Kang, he he talked to me one day after my practice with him, and he said, Ben, you know, do you meditate?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I'm like a busy guy, you know, I'm trying to, you know, work on these startups, and uh you know, I just got in there to train to work out, and and you know, I said, uh yeah, no, not really.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I know what it is, but I you know, I I just don't have the time.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, he looked at me.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a guy that you know fought has fought in wars, has been a monk, has been you know, he's just lived this amazing life.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he just looked at me and he said, Ben, do you have two minutes a day?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and uh what was I gonna say to that?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know where he's going with that question.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I just said, Yes, I have two minutes a day.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he and he and he just kind of really kind of tried to really enforce this notion of, hey, you should give yourself a gift of two minutes a day.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, okay, you know, challenge accepted, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so that two minutes a day has become five, ten, eight, fifteen, thirty minutes every morning now that I spend for myself.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a time that's a little bit more quiet, more calm.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can do my breathing exercises, I can meditate, and it has changed my life.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen a direct correlation of what you are able to accomplish and do with what you're setting out to do, whether that be business, family, whatever, because you've instilled that practice of pause and meditation?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: It has.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I would tell you, it's it's kind of ironic.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's I think for me in my busy life, right, or it could be very busy, it's kind of like what Steve Jobs talks about a lot, is it's you gotta have so many different opportunities of things that you can spend your time on in a day.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: But once you kind of get more centered and you let all of this clear, it becomes kind of like you kind of net down to oh, I want to spend more time with my daughter today.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's really important where I want to spend more time doing these things.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you end up getting the ability to be able to focus more appreciatively.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in our in my life, the ability to take away the noise and only see what's left of what's what's really important.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's really my goal, and what do I need to do to achieve my goal?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what's important, and that compounds over time.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I that's interesting, and I and I that's kind of a direct question just for myself, because I I have a mentor as well, and they've been very supportive of Books for Guys and what I'm trying to build here.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh just a couple weeks ago, he was like, Chris, man, what you've done is incredible.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, You've been sprinting 100 miles an hour, you know, doing all this.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I think in in order for you to take the next step up, you really need to tone things down.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he was breaking it down for me.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, you need to, he's like, you can't keep going at this pace.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, actually, I think you'll make things better and you'll see bigger growth if you hone in on a few details, make things better.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: But instead of just saying yes to everything and everyone and doing everything that you think you should do, he was kind of breaking it down.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was more words than that, but it was also it was more just like, hey, if you pause a little bit, you're actually going to see greater growth than if you continue on the same path you're on.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it clicked with me.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I have seen that, but I was curious, you know, just with you taking that time to kind of reevaluate what's priority and what's important.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And mine's, you know, walking my dog every morning.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: It takes 30 minutes, leave my phone at home.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm breathing, I'm looking, I'm not looking, you know, talking to other people, just my wife who's walking with me, and it's it's changes the whole dynamics of the day instead of getting up and immediately rushing.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I've done both things, and I can see the difference personally, and I hear others talk about it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's one of those things that I think a lot of people they know they should do and and practice, but to actually do it is another thing.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I just don't think we can talk about it enough because maybe at some point it'll help click for someone else and they'll start practicing that and see the the results in a positive way, too.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think I think you know, life is actually very simple, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we I think I I mean many other people, I think we try to make it complicated sometimes, but for sure.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are things that that only there are very simple things that matter, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you at the end of the day, my own personal health is priority one.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: If I become sick, everything else doesn't matter.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of works that way, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I need to make sure I take care of myself.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have my circle of my family and my friends, my relationships, that that's important to me.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other things come.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I, you know, and I think that's what's really important.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember talking to an entrepreneur once uh who you know had a fairly successful business, been running it for years as a family, and he called me and he was in panic and he said, Look, I've been strung along by this other investor, I'm about to go bankrupt.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have all these other things, you know, and I can't make all my commitments.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I I tried to help him, you know, just pause.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you built this thing, and you know, now it's financial to vehicle, it's a little bit lopsided.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said to him, Look, I need you to be able to be grounded to be in based.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I need you to draw a circle, put your family in there, you and your family are in that circle.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: You need to first make sure this little circle is good.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now we can worry about the 20 employees that you have and your concern about their futures.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is it's a business.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: You need to make sure you can still breathe.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you might have to downsize and you might have to make some hard decisions.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what that's where you are in the path.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think being able to have that chance to pause and then see what is in front of you for what it really is.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's super important because then that allows you to then logically move to the next step.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting as, you know, again, as I balance things, I see my wife do the thing the same thing.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: We both are entrepreneurs at heart.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're always trying to do a million different things.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we quickly learned, you know, each of us has a capacity that we can't exceed.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it almost we've had to practice not getting to that point because, like you said, we health is first, you know, you have different priorities and you've got to practice that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: But too many times people they they run until they're just they're they're out of gas.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then then there's more problems than there is uh, you know, solutions to those problems.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I I again I love the aspect of that.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ben, I I one question I love to ask people because, you know, again, I think as as people look towards what they want to accomplish and they look at people who have accomplished what they're trying to, there's always kind of this thought of, hey, if I can just do that, I'll have made it or I'll be happier.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems that the most successful people, the goalpost moves a little bit.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying not being content.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's you've pushed yourself, you've challenged yourself, you've accomplished something, that's great.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Your capacity has increased, and life doesn't end there.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you scored a touchdown, the game's not over, you know, you've got to keep playing.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so you find different things to go work on and achieve because you want to maximize the one life you have.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So my question for you is you know, you've done all these different things.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: You've raised capital, you have a book out, you're teaching, you've started programs.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: What are some things that you're working on now that that has you excited and passionate about, you know, what's your your next, you know, the next few years look like of your future, whether that be personal things or business things you're trying to accomplish?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I it's no secret.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have a great passion for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and martial arts as a whole.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, most recently I've I've started on a new path of uh, I call it a martial arts lab.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm building a lab.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what's part of it, that's what's unique about it, is, you know, I'm mounting basically, you know, four cameras around a very specific mat.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea is that, you know, you can come in and roll with another partner, and then these cameras will record that.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the technology that I'm building around that allows those off-the-shelf cameras to do an auto-sync.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I can do a scrubber and I can move that, and then I can give comments as a coach where other people can to help that athlete be better.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's this is not new.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: They've had this in golf and a number of other things for a long time.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, in martial arts, you don't really get a lot of footage of yourself rolling.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're always on the mat, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're always doing it, and it's very rare actually.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, you know, how valuable it is to be able to have a coach look at how you're interacting with someone else and say, you know what?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Your superpowers seem to be your long legs, your your broad shoulders, etc.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you just moved your shoulder a little bit this way and moved your leg that way, that particular thing you were trying to do would be a lot easier to get.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really focused on that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And this martial arts lab, as I mentioned, has a very specific set of technology around it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're building this, you know, specialized app that's gonna basically not only synchronize, you know, multiple footage from different camera views, then allow for input of data, and ultimately have some other friends of mine that are building AI systems to basically, you know, act as an AI coach.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I've realized that what they really need is the ability to feed in high-quality footage of video, right, into the AI system ultimately.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I ultimately look at it as this long, yeah, longer cycle in these next couple of years as building a system that starts here, but ultimately then moves into you know feeding into an AI system.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds awesome.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see your passion behind it, you know, just just where that lies.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think about that, I mean, it's kind of a given in a lot of other sports, or when you talk about breakdown, you want to review what you've done so that you can do better next time.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in football, you watch film all the time.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Basketball, you watch film all the time.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: In business, you're constantly going back.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: How did that call go?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: How did that how Did I word this?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: How can I, you know, it inspire somebody, you know, as a leader better next time?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're always breaking down what you've done so that you can do better in the future.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it just makes sense.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting to know that in in fighting and martial arts that that hasn't become a bigger thing uh just yet, as far as looking over film and studying your movement so that you can do better in the next time.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: But but it also makes sense too.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a you're you're always on the mat.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, but to but to have someone get different angles, I think that'd be really beneficial to someone who wants to improve their craft.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, you know, like like you know, the the issue you've got a lot of times is as a student, you know, you you have what you remembered.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the con the the the engagement.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think I did these things.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very interesting to then get an outside perspective of what of what you thought you did.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you had, you know, cameras recording it in in a 360 view and then you could see, oh, my foot placement on the back side was over here.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: My knee was over there.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I thought I was doing the choke here, but I actually my weight was not in the right place.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Those things are missing right now.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've traveled a lot to many different gyms, and and also personally, you know, I realized how valuable it is to have that kind of really detailed, focused footage, and then to have in addition to that, you know, smart, capable coaches to then give you input on that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm laughing, Ben, because I'm thinking about, you know, one of my coaches, one of the his most favorite things he would tell us was the film doesn't lie.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so he would ask, he would ask us, what were we thinking?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we'd be confident, well, I did this because they did that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, da-da-da.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he'd he'd play the the replay of it and he'd go, Yeah, I'm not seeing what you were saying.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: It seems a little bit different.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is funny what you think you remember can be quite different than what the film's like.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I I think I think that's you know, I I just think it's it's something, and especially with what with AI that's coming, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny to me, like, you know, I have someone, you know, that doesn't know a lot about martial arts, but he's building this AI system to analyze martial arts, and I'm like, dude, you know, if you really understood, like for specific like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, it's not just about a couple moves.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's much more nuanced than that.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every body shape, you know, has very specific custom elements of where their strength are, their weight, their skeletal structure.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the things that are quietly happening behind the scenes as you're grappling with that person on the ground.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's interesting.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my my really the extent of of what I watched from the fighting is probably probably the UFC, but the different styles that people come with.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're always talking about reach and muscle and where they were at two years ago compared to today, and what an injury has caused them to now put more weight on this side of the body versus that side of the body, and how it affects this move and that move.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many integral parts and pieces to the machine that the body is and how you practice, and just again, the forms that you learn.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that's that I'm constantly getting more and more intrigued by as I study.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just again, as a former athlete, learning why this person's better at this sport and what's all a part of it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I've done some grappling, and my gosh, it is like one of the hardest workouts anyone can do if you've never done it before.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: You think you think it's easy, get on the ground for five minutes and you'll be huffing for air.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely has its challenges.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Ben, one last question for you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I ask most everyone who comes on the Books for Guys podcast this question, just from a book standpoint.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally, and what's a book or two that you love to recommend to other people?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think, you know, I would tell you that one of the books that changed my life a long time ago, it's an old book, you know, Unlimited Power by Anthony Robbins.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it there's nothing, you know, I I think finding somebody that you can really look at up to as a mentor, I think is super important.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And as a young person or even a person looking for, you know, motivation, I think, you know, you're looking for somebody that has some qualifications, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I I looked at that book and and I and I went through some of the of his early courses, those affected me.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and it's it's a it's a movement forward.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a movement to better yourself, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think, you know, that was something that that I really liked.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think another, you know, Neil Stevenson, you know, on a on the flip side, um, you know, I I like sci-fi and some stuff, and you know, uh there's a book called Cryptonomicon by Neil Stevenson.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I think getting kind of that really in-depth view of what an alternative concept or world involved with technology in the future can look like, and and being able to track that from historical precedents is is really interesting to me.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, great recommendations.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: No one has recommended those two books before.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So those are great, great to share.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to to reading those and adding those both to my list.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but Ben, thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very, very proud and honored to share your story and share your book.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to to many people reading it and letting me know what they think and then sharing that with you.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: But man, wishing you nothing but continued success.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to continue following everything that you're doing and working on.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh man, we're just we're always here to support you and just can't say thank you enough.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Look, Chris, it's uh my pleasure to be on the show.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I really, you know, I I think, you know, the the things that you're looking to do, which is to increase the awareness, right?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: For folks, I I think that's that's really helpful.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and I think today, especially today, uh things are moving so fast for everybody.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I just really encourage people to to take the time.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, reading a book is one thing, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: You could listen to the book, you know, whatever's easier for you.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think people should take that time for themselves to give themselves that gift.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well we appreciate it, Ben.