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Bonus Patreon Release: Stevie Hunter! With Num1 and Carrie Harris! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, welcome back to The Gray Mulk and Lane Patreon channel where I get to talk about overlooked supporting and obscure characters.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Today we are going to be talking about a fan favorite supporting character, Stevie Hunter.
• 0:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Former professional ballet dancer, slash ballet teacher, turned Congresswoman in the more recent years in the Marvel Universe.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a question.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm fond of this character, but I've been positing as I prepared for this episode why it is that people like her.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to ask you both, both of my guests, that as we're beginning, why do you like Stevie Hunter?
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's my initial question.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm on to it, but I want to make sure I get the right pulse on this.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to welcome two wonderful guests that I love hanging out with on this show who are meeting for the first time and you're both lovely.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I can't wait for you to be friends.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's begin with the incredible number one cause play.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm welcome back to Grey Malken Lane.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Tell everybody your name and pronouns.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And why do you love Stevie Hunter?
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I remember my name is someone I go by they them.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that I love Stevie because she is unafraid of entering this space where she's dealing with these very powerful and very, you know, interesting characters and she holds her ground very well in the midst of, you know, a lot of chaos and a lot of things that she's very out of her depth on for the most part.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: especially when she gets to know the X-Men for the first part, I guess.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so I think it's very intelligent of her to handle things that way she does.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: But also, I think it's really important to have a person who can empathize with them as a person of color and facing discrimination and things like that.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that is such a really important character.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it humanizes the X-Men a lot and really shifts them into a very normal kind of view.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I put that in front of the seas because
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: you know, what is normal.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think it's really important to have someone who isn't like a super person that can relate to them.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's the first thing I latch onto with Stevie is she gives no fucks.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie, there's about if you're a good person or not.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't care if you're a mutant or not.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's not afraid of you.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: But also don't fucking attack her place.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like don't come after her because that's what why would people do that in this world?
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: We also jumped to my dear friend Kerry Harris returning to the show.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kerry has been too long.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: way too long, let's not do this again.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm coming back tomorrow.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Carrie Harris, she, her, you know, I was going to see a kind of the same thing about none, and I don't want to jump the fun and talking about, there's the magneto moment, which is one of the best moments in comics ever, I dare you to say that it's not.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think the other thing for me, in addition to what Nam said, is that D.V.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: is a reminder of the normal world.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kitty Pride is my character.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's the person who got me an X-Men because she was like me.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: she was just a normal, unremarkable girl and she could be a superhero so I could too.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stevie being a part of Kitty's world helped her feel like a normal girl and Stevie being unremarkable herself but still being able to hang and bring something valuable that even people like Magneto recognize, that's huge.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: especially given, you know, his opinion towards humans, just another reminder that we can be that too.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: NAMM in the way that your favorite characters are Sformama, right?
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma, right?
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma's your other, your other great love.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Carmen Jean, and then Emma.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katie is carries.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katie, carry loves, Katie, more than I can carry grew up dreaming of, Katie pride being her girlfriend.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yes, I did.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: number you a kitty pride fan.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love kitty.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I agree to love kitty through the dynamic of her and Aurora's relationship.
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: This court sort of like, you know, motherly, but also friends.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of like protective.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I get that a lot as a as a teacher.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I feel very protective of my kids too.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I get that.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: And of course, like, when she first joins the Xman, like, Aurora is one of the Xman that, like, is there for her and goes through a lot.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I love Katie.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I grew to love her more through, like, animated series and then getting back into the comments.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love to see her kind of constant transitions.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's been a thing for Katie.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like Kitty too.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm actually a pretty big kitty pride fan.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's not in my top favorite favorite.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Carrie and I got to do an episode all about Kitty's parents, which is interesting.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Kitty's dad ties to Professor X's past, which is one of those areas that I get obsessed with.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is a character that we get to watch grow up.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things I love most about her is the complex intersectionality of I'm a mutant.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a child of divorced parents.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am a Jewish person.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, again, Kitty doesn't care what you look like.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: She just loves you.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love that we get to see her be awkward and uncomfortable and weird.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's the mascot in a way that Jubilee later becomes the mascot in some ways.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she's also become a very competent woman.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: She has a deep, weak spot for any boy named Peter, no matter how toxic they are.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love her very much.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you have to keep this to less than three paragraphs.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you love about Kitty Pride?
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no symposiums allowed.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me get my note.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you've both touched on a lot of it.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's that Kitty is in a lot of ways unremarkable which makes her remarkable.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a world and I came to comics back in the eighties, you know, there was one woman in most superhero teams and she was spectacular somehow.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was a goddess.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: the strongest mutant ever.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was a princess.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was an Empress and she was ultra capable except when the men showed up and then she went, oh no, what do we do?
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like I didn't want to be that.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of my friends used to get angry at me because I would be Princess Leia and I would save myself.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: For me, Kitty broke all of those molds.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a big part of what makes her special is because ultimately she's not
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like that idea that she's a normal girl and there's a thing I interviewed Bob McCloud once about the creation of the new mutants and he drew all of the new mutants characters at the beginning to be kind of gangly and awkward with bad hairstyles and and you know awkward features and then it's just like two years later where they just draw start drawing them all super hot you know what I mean Katie has I think that vibe where she's the awkward teen turned into the beautiful girl
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really like her a lot.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: When we consider the character of Kitty Pride, I mentioned this is one of the pieces of intersectionality for her.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: The idea that she's a child of divorced parents.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't get as much from her mom as we do from her dad, but her dad is a veteran who has a very complex backstory and isn't often used.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He ends up in some of the later work, making bad deals with criminals and Kitty lives with the shame of that for a long time.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then he dies on genosha, even into the most recent neurotic series, is trying to lay her dad to rest.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: in a lot of ways.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Katy first gets into the X-Men, I think we have to see her as a character who has a lot of attachment issues.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she really imprints on storm and Xavier and Peter in different ways.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Logan later, of course, although that one's a little bit more hard fought.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then eventually she becomes a kick-ass ninja, right?
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: But character who's kind of that mother vibe for her outside of storm is Stevie Hunter.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Steve is really interesting.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do not believe there is a real world comparison for Steve.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Steve is back story is she's a black female ballerina.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she has relatively dark skin.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: She has textured hair.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: We often see her with cornrows or braids.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a character who is just in love with life in a lot of ways.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she got badly injured and is unable to dance.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And everyone's now while her leg will flare up and she kind of cries out in pain.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then she's got to be helped off to the side a little bit.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't like being helpless.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she also has a history of as a dancer and just seeing her darker skin and her textured hair.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think is one of the reasons we imprint.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: There were a lot of black female ballerina dancers back in the nineteen seventies, but not very many when you compare it to white lady dancers because that's just how it works back then and even still now.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if you look up dancers like Raven Wilkinson, Janet Collins, Deborah Austin, Virginia Johnson, Lorraine Graves in particular seems to have kind of a Stevie Hunter vibe.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Karen Brown is another, we're not going to spend a lot of time there, but it is interesting to go back and consider what it means to have a character represented in this way.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's really, really important.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: both then and now to have characters of color with varying styles.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: We talk about her hair and the texture and the color of her skin and those kinds of things.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's important because I think a lot of times and this is a conversation that I see in my own community as a person of color as a black.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: person where it's like we see the same hair styles and we see like very light skin, people of color, light skin, black people.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so I think like we talk about specifically like Stevie and then to see the Reyes and like these characters who rock the braids, rock the cornrows, have dark skin.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's so important to put on a bonnet when they go to sleep, right?
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like all of these things, right?
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: We talk about like storms more updated here styles and like that is a side because you know, I'm rock and straight here today.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: But that is
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: that is a choice I've made.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's because so often we don't see people of color represented in real ways so like having her look the way she does immediately for people is like oh that is something I kind of associate with that's something that's familiar to me that's important.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Steven doesn't have a ton of appearances but some of her appearances are really iconic.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to kind of go through her history a little bit quickly.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll pause on some of the more fun interchanges.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So listeners, when you hear us reading, I will be playing Stevie Hunter today, which is a crime, but no one has to play storm.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So whatever you hear, no one at a storm, and whatever you hear, carry it is Kitty, because this is the character that Stevie interacts with the most on the page.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, Steady Hunter shows up in Xman, one, thirty, nine, one, forty for the first time.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty Pride's been here for around a year.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's in ninth grade at states.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's November, nineteen, eighty, and Chris Claremont and John Bern are her creators.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is being taken by storm into a dance studio into Salem, Center, New York.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now later, Steady's going to become like a full-time dance teacher at the Xavier Academy, which that job will like, she needs better job security as I love saying.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: But here she has a studio.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And on her way up the stairs, Kitty states out loud.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a certified genius, you know, I'm taking college level courses academically, dancing is how I balance the skills.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't make my body grow any faster and my intellect isn't much good.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It helping me perform the moves, right?
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here I'm just like everybody else.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can relate to kids my own age as equals.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, it's nice to be able to do that.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think most dancers out there can relate to this in some way, right?
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: We feel a certain way around people who share our interests, that place where you can kind of shut off a little bit, although Kitty wanting to grow cracks me up, because I'm just picturing her in front of her mirror at home doing that.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I must, I must, I must increase my bus exercise, right?
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like dancing in the place where she admits it.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Storm says it by the kitchen.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Leave a ride.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe this.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so nervous.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she meets Stevie Hunter, who has her hair in tight braids.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's golden beads in woven in.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: She has a blackly-attard thigh-high gold boots.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's stretching out on the balance beam.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And says afternoon folks, you're right on time.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Stevie Hunter.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to my studio.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you must be Ms.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Monroe and Ms.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Pride from Professor Xavier School, right?
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're all right.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Kitty, Kitty Pride.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your new student.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm real pleased to meet you, Ms.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hunter.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I saw you dance in Chicago before you're accident.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You were wonder.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the name Stevie, some iced tea, anyone?
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we jump to the next issue.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is leaving dance class.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's in yellow, fringe, a star of David is around her neck.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie has on a black dress.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Blue jacket and blue heel boots.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And storm notes that they are getting along famously.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's getting a little jealous.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And storm things to herself.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It shouldn't bother me, but it does.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've been on edge since the moment we met.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I keep telling myself such feelings are absurd.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: CD's one of the nicest women I've ever met, yet the feelings remain.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katie sees storm and says, Hi, Aurora.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, you should have stuck around to watch the class.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was great.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, this is not Hi, Aurora.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's Hi, Aurora.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a Aurora.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it looks Katie, a little kid pet name.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's cute.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie says, our kitten has a real talent auroro, once we smooth down her considerable rough edges and storm thanks.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Our kitten.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie says, can I interest you both in a bite to eat after a day teaching budding, barish necobbs and maricobas, which are real dancers?
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm famished auroro says, thank you Stevie, but now we must be getting back to the school.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Stevie, do you call Cia?
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some other time, perhaps.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Steve just wants to be friends and a row is not feeling it.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like this is the day and everything that I was talking about, like as like being like territorial almost, it's not a real thing.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like my brain recognizes, okay, like they can be friendly with my kids, like they can be friendly with like my people, like it's the jealousy in the sense of like territorialism and like protectiveness, but not it's not a real thing.
• 12:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love seeing a rural Monroe be petty.
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: It makes me happy every time it happens.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so petty.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like at the same time, it's not because she doesn't want TV to have her friends.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's because she's like, I feel like my space is being.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: You are not wonder and no one I'd like to hear your opinion on this.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: You almost wonder if Storm has particular feelings because Stevie's another woman of color.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel like there's some complex reactions there?
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there might be a little bit, I mean, any time you get people that are very well aligned or very similar together, there is that kind of clashing because of similarity.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: D.V.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: is a mentor for Kitty.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: D.V.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: is another black woman.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: D.V.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: is very confident in herself knows who she is.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Stevie is not afraid of, you know, being pushy is.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so Aurora feels like, this person is also very similar to me because Aurora knows herself very well.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I definitely think that
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: That does come into play for our gay listeners think this through you make that like one for my gay male listeners you make that like one straight girl friend that you love and imprint on and you you just are her everything and then one day she brings another gay boy around
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bit more flamboyant than you, and you have feelings about it.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is what a colonialism does to our brains in a lot of ways where we have these kind of layered identities.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think a little bit where we automatically apply preference to a certain thing, and we don't want to represent our entire sex or race or gender or anything, but you kind of end up doing it, and then you play those games out in your brain without meaning to.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: You almost wonder if like America's getting to storm just a little bit here, which is a rough thing to consider.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think what you just said also went for being the one bisexual female in the nineties.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was the exact same thing.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had flashbacks.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing is that like I come to this as I was the dancer like Kitty and then later on in my career, I injured my knee like Stevie and can't do it anymore.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so there is this, you know, she's so accepting Stevie is of what's going on and this is Kitty's happy place.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: and for Stevie, like the fact that she's able to put aside the fact that this is something that she wants and can no longer have and try to instill that in her students.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, I respect her.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that piece of these characters is really interesting to me as well.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think if we have the right writer exploring that, there'd be like a really fun, you know how they do those like pride, anthologies,
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: or like when they do like for black history month having someone write a story that explores storm and steve's early relationship and how they kind of came to terms with each other written by like Stephanie Williams of course right like something something like that I think would be a fascinating story throw a misty night in there like jingray and misty night where like there's some really interesting dynamics
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we jump to X men, one, forty, five and one, forty, six at the invitation of Kitty Pride, Stevie puts on a pink and white dress and with storm in golden black, they go to see the royal ballet at the Lincoln Center.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And storm says that dancing is beautiful.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: The beauty is the result of the years of hard work and pain.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a hard life, Aurora, a cruel one, and I'd give my soul to be part of it again.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: and store finds herself wanting to be like Stevie.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then mislock enters and sedates Stevie and store him with poison and apprehends them for arcade and then Stevie finds herself a captive next to, Candy Southern, Amanda Scepton.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jean Grey's parents, the Moira McTaggart, and Stevie is defiant even with mislock like pointing at a gun at her head and the X-Men have to rescue them.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Stevie ends up being one of those, like, long, oh, here's all the supporting cast.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna put them all in traps, but Claire about does it so well.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: The dedication Stevie feels toward being a dancer and the grief she has, even with the PTSD of it all, I think this is something anyone I've ever known who is a dancer professionally, particularly, can relate to.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because you know you have a short self life, you know your career is not going to be long unless you reinvent yourself.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the wrong injury changes everything.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Years of work,
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: just grueling grueling grading were and advancing up the ranks only to have one twisted me away from having it all and I think it's handled really well in it's not the sort of thing that only pops up when it's convenient.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm distancing every day and it's been thirty years since I washed out and that was it.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's also the, you know, which will kind of get to affect that it physically affects her and not just when it's convenient.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's the sort of thing that is present all the time.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they handle that really well.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mentioned earlier, I love when storm gets petty.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also love when storm gets horny.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also love when storm has to take a day off.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: If we think of Storm as like Beyonce, this is the person who's like, yeah, I know you've been like traveling around the universe, like shooting lightning at people, but like come sit down and spend an evening at the ballet, please.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like we're gonna calm down for a minute.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I always love those music for Storm in particular for some reason.
• 17:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is like what Storm and Wolverine understand about each other, which is why I get when they fuck and then they end it, right?
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: No one did you see that recent issue by Mariah Daley, where Storm Fox Wolverine and then like leaves him behind, so good.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't believe that's a question.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, I'm like religiously reading this series.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the best storm series ever.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, good.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's so good.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would go on like a full like sermon on Sunday about these these issues so far.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: The last one that just came out actually is honestly one of the greatest comics I've ever read.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is writing storm as though she's like a mythological god like it's legend.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so good.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: And when we talk about like connecting her to like all of like back history and like all of these issues, things he's doing amazing work.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: I cannot cannot be highly enough of it.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've got a certain storm episode number one where my guests are Mariah and Jed McCay who's writing storm and Avengers.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like the two current storm writers together.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really excited about it.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm gonna just faint and then get up like you're great.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: But no, um, it's so good.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think the humanization of her, I think a lot of people miss because she is so powerful and because she's always like, I'm goddess.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a goddess.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so people are like, yeah, she's a goddess, but they forget like the human part of her that can be petty, that can be like shallow and.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Marie, what recently did that issue, we're starting dinner with Dr. Doom, and there's like full page of like storm and launch array and then storm and address.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: The juxtaposition of storm has like a little girl learning lessons from her dad and then like adult storm reuniting with her dad's soul.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's done.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's so good.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Marie, if you're listening, so good.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: We love you.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So really a job.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep it up my friend.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna jump to uncanny X-Men number one, forty-eight.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: She is gorgeous in a frilled, like, sleeveless purple.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: She attends a party with Jessica Drew and Storm and Kitty, and they're all dolled up, and then Dazzler invites them out to a nightclub and Storm and Steve, you have to remind Kitty to tone down her exuberance, which means go take your hat or all girl.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Bessler performs Callabin attacks because he tries to kidnap Kitty because he wants to marry her.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a whole story.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: The crowd goes crazy.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: We jumped to one fifty two where there's a giant X-Men adventure and storm ends up having her mind and body and powers swapped with Emma Frost of the Hellfire Club.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's problematic.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's some rough parts of this story.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is before we love Emma, like in a lot of ways.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Storm is in Emma Frost's body and reaches out to Stevie Hunter telepathically asking for help for her in Kitty and Stevie comes to give them a ride.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she says, one of the most pops into your head and says, come, Iran, it's kind of hard to ignore it.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Storm gives Stevie in some instructions on how to handle the crisis.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: They don't come back.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty gives her a hug and says,
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: by Stevie thanks for standing by us.
• 20:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Frankly, kiddo, your life scares the beans out of me, but your friends and I stand by those I love no matter what.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And storm things.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Katie's feelings are strong for Stevie as for me.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Stevie is an extraordinary person and practical part of my friend.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yet I'm still jealous of that bond between them, possessing Emma Frost's telepathic talent and being able to sense their thoughts and emotions only makes things worse.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's unfair to Stevie on worthy of me yet I can't help myself.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've come to think of Katie as my own child.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: I resent having to share her.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then as Nick Depart, Sebastian Shaw and Emma in Storm's body throw Stevie's car aside and like worse her to tell them everything.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So okay, so Stevie is like in love with the X man, like she loves this little world that she's part of.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it gives her like a little sense of adventure, but also she's been kidnapped by the evil miss lock put in a cage by arcade and now like had Emma Frost and Sebastian Shaw like threatened to beat her up.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's going through some things here.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I carry what are the Stevie thoughts on the mutant world at this point?
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: She never really seems to question whether or not she should be there, whether or not she has a right to hang or to occupy this space.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: For me, I think the interesting thing is that Kitty seems to be oblivious to all of this.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: She just, she's oblivious to the tension between storm and Stevie.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's just thrilled.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's got two people that she loves more than just about anybody else in her life, and they're in the same place, and this is great.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Stevie wants to preserve that, and I'm pretty sure storm does too, like they don't want to ruin this for.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Steve is also a really fucking tough teacher.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: In one fifty four, we see Kitty, like practicing hardcore for a performance.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: In one sixty five, we see Stevie get a pool day with Moira McTaggart and Iliana Rasputina, which is a bizarre combination.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: These three, I would read a story about these three interacting at the pool, which is delightful.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Throughout the Xavier mansion, the X-Men have been missing for weeks.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Charles has depression.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie says, I can relate, and she quote, she says, I feel something of the same sense of loss whenever I go to the ballet, and that same desperate willingness to pay any price to return to what I was.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not an easy thing to cope with.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then she stands up and a spasm hits her knee.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: She falls back in pain, a tear runs down her cheek.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: She says, I was in an accident years ago, shattered my knee.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ducks fixed it virtually good as new.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can walk.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can even dance a little in class.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: The only thing I can't do is perform.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: No great loss, I suppose.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: No worse than losing your soul.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, fellow creatives, you have this thing that you understand.
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear writers say things like this all the time.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I am miserable when I'm writing.
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: The only thing that makes me more miserable is not writing.
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: When my oldest son was born, I stopped performing.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: which is one of the reasons making the show is such a joy for me because I gave up acting, I was doing improv comedy, I was in plays and musicals.
• 22:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I still, all these years later, I haven't been in any sort of production.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when I attend a show where I can see people loving what they're doing on stage, I will weak every time.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: My husband distilled as I understood it.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, why are you crying at this?
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, because they love what they're doing.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And writing gives me that same energy.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to speak to that about what it's like to suffer loss when you just want to do the thing that you do and do it well and have people notice?
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I absolutely relate to what you're saying.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cry at everything.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cry at dance shows.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cry when books are great.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cry at movies.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cry at cosplay.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like for me, not being able to dance is a big part of the reason why I'm now a professional writer.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: because it's that same act of sharing yourself with the world and that same act of creation.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they capture it really.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to let you delve into that for just a second.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Draw a comparison for me.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is it?
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are the parts of you that come alive dancing that also come alive writing?
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the stuff that you don't say to people.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't want to overshare.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to take up too much space.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to burden.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to trauma dumb.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is a safe way to do those things and to show truth that maybe you would hide otherwise in casual conversation.
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I do a lot of this exploration in therapy with people.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think these answers when we ask them of ourselves are these questions I think are really important.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: We can make it really deeply spiritual and complex, but we can also just rely on the fact that I feel better when I do it and I don't feel better when I don't.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Numb, can you relate to this as a creative person?
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of this, yeah, I feel like I kind of oscillate between like being like needing to create something and then needing to take a break.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like when I'm taking a break, I'm like, I feel like I'm not doing anything.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel it's like almost like an itch and it's been really hard because I'm trying to like navigate the creative spaces like what I want to pour my creative energy into.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: But sometimes like I feel very overwhelmed.
• 24:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like when I stop creating, I'm like, the world is not right.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I should be doing something right now like I'm supposed to be doing something and then when I am creating like I feel almost like nothing else exists so it's weird for me I don't ever feel like there's a time where like I'm when I'm not creating so I can't under like I don't associate so much with the loss of it as much as like I know I need to be doing something and so for me it's more of like taking the time to actually create something and then also giving myself the space to like step away from it and let it exist as what it is.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of people that I've befriended through the show who I think can intimately understand this.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: We watch a lot of sports movies about like a person getting an injury and then like having to kind of build their way back up the other day.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll have to check with this person to make sure they're okay with me sharing this story.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of my favorite people and dearest friends here in Utah are X-Men artists, a Philip CV and writer, Christy Porter.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're partners, they're wonderful.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: We watched Burlesque the other day and Philip got like really emotional during the film and turned to our group and said, you guys, this movie is my Rudy.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rudy is not really that story where you just like make it happen, right?
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Burleski is not a great film, but Christina is character is like she just has this one dream and she will stay there as long as she can and advocate for herself as much as she can to fit and we get it, right?
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Another person only have to check with to make sure it's okay to say this.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: My dear friend, Taylor Vessel, who's often on this show with me.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Taylor is someone who is like, I've got a podcast, I've got a right, I've got to do something this energy won't leave me alone and then he'll get like very overwhelmed and like over stacked by it all and then put the pressure on to do it again.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a thing we go through and I think Stevie is a character that we understand intimately for that reason.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a little fair pewds.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we're going to cover a bunch at once really quickly.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Marvel graphic novel number five, which is the first appearance of the new mutants.
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: TV's dance studio is stated to be at seventy three, Willington Road next to the book.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: During one of her classes, Eliana Rasputina, who is now attending classes, sees Kitty get into a fight with a kid named Danny.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just as Colossus is arriving.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Steve says, what the hell is going on here?
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Turns out Danny is a huge anti-mutant bigot, but Stevie is upset with Kitty.
• 26:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk about this scene.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: With your training, you could have crippled Danny or worse.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You'd have done the same to me, I bet.
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, let's get you inside and cleaned up.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: How can you all be so calm?
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't you hear what he said?
• 27:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're only words child.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty screams in Stevie's face before running away.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie's smile changes from a smile to shock.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I will not say this word because this is the word we see.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: He used in comics in the eighties a little bit.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty says the phrase, suppose he called me an N word lover.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Very uncomfortable.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's supposed to call me an N word lover, Stevie.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you be so damn tolerant then?
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kerry, I said that so you didn't have to.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe then says, you and your sister had better go after her Peters.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: See she gets home safe.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll speak to Danny and make certain this sort of thing never happens again.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Colossus then says, and I'm doing a read classes.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is upset Stevie.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: She did not think about what she was saying.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: She did not mean.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: and Stevie starts to cry.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course she did, by friend.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: She meant every word, and she was right.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she is no idea that there's some bigots around the corner with guns, literally ready to kill Stevie because she is a muti lover.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, these comparisons, we love the real world comparisons, but when we see it put on the page written by Claremont and we equate it with racism and put the end word on the page, the little too far from me and Claremont does this in God loves man, kills, and in a couple of other places.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now we will defer to you
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: as a person of color, and let's be able to pass it completely.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's did you go through in this moment?
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I think, and for me as a reader, it's also really hard because obviously, like, love kitty, and like, this is one of those moments where, like, I choose to set this aside from who the character is and what the character's, you know, represents.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I do think that it's really hard because anytime we have conversation about race and racism, racial slurs, any of these kinds of conversations,
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very jargon, right?
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's very unexpected, especially coming from people that you love.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: In this scenario, Stevie loves Kitty.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: This kid means a lot to her.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: And she is looking out for her in a time and in a space where she knows if this is like as a person of color.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, Danny was being awful to her, but Kitty, you know that you cannot stoop to his level.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, you could have really hurt this boy because you are way more skilled than he is.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Belaced to buy this up into three things for just a moment.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Number one, Kitty as a Jewish person, the descendant of Holocaust survivors, and as a mutant who is frequently attacked for being who she is, is defending herself against a bigot who's threatening violence.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Number two, Kitty is a trained operative
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: who, if her powers or her training go out of control, she can literally kill someone.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And number three, Stevie is a woman of color trying to teach a class where she welcomes anyone but has rules for how we treat each other in there.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, Kitty is Stevie's student and, Stevie knows what Kitty's capable of.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, there's some different layers to this.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Before we even talk about the racism comparison.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Before we can get to that and like so much of it does like it's all rooted back to that being her being Jewish, her being also a mutant, her being a woman, you know, all of these layers, all of these, you know, different things compound into what makes kiddo who she is.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, you are facing discrimination in this moment, but you know, and okay, you know, Michelle Obama, whatever you want to call it, like now, you have to make sure that you are better.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: And coming from a woman of color as well, it's important because we know as black people like we have to be better.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't have an option.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's very hard for Katie to hear.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very hard for Stevie to explain, but also it doesn't negate the fact that yes, things were said, I'll address it like I'll handle it.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like that's a teacher in me.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: If someone does something in my class, I'll handle it.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know that you're hurt, but I'll handle because I'm able to navigate the space in a healthy way.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is very vulnerable here, and she had a teacher come down on her, and Kitty's like, inner child is reacting.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: There, we talk about sexual intersectionality here quite a bit.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's something that happens, and I see it happen all the time, is it therapist, where, or is a gay man in society, where people feel like they can be tougher on me, like their expectations of me are more.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: That bigot who screamed in my face, that was fine, but if you screamed back, there's a problem.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that type of thing feels very heavy.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when someone comes around and says, I can't believe you didn't have compassion for me, Chad.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going through a divorce and I thought you would understand what it's like to go through a hard time because you're a gay person.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, what?
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't equate.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so Kitty immediately turning it on like, Steady, how dare you not have compassion.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: You are a person of color.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: You should understand what it's like to be hated.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm going to storm off.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like if you had just said you hurt my feelings, I got it.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But don't turn it there.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't take it there.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do that as a white person in this country.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Even if she wasn't a white person, I think that she's missing what Stevie was trying to do.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Stevie wasn't trying to protect any Stevie was trying to protect.
• 31:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Katie and I think a lot of times to like we say these things without actually understanding this person knows exactly what's going on.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: They're very aware they get it.
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think Katie misunderstood her intention like you don't get it, you know, but you should because of this and Steve is like, I do get it, but I get it and this is like I'm trying to save you and protect you and not give him another reason right to like prove him right like I'm doing
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is a smart part of Claremont's writing in that it gives us this is what his intention I don't think but it gives us the piece to chew on I'm sorry is Stevie repeating to Kitty things that she has been told in her own life You are a black ballerita and you have to hold yourself to an extremely high standard because anything you do wrong they will cut you for like yes You're better than them, but you have to be better than them like you have to be at the top of your game all the time and the pressure that we put on ourselves in minority groups right yeah Stevie sees that in Kitty in a way
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's some pressure there as well.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I carry you, do you want to talk about that at all?
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're recording this in fuckin' Trump America and both of us are parents of queer children.
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, ugh.
• 32:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 32:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, when I read this section, it's a weird thing because I'm one hand, you know, approaching it from a writer's point of view, I want to show Kitty being a teenager.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's young, she's idealistic, she makes mistakes, she's very emotional right now and this is in teaching moments.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But how far do you take that moment?
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a real impeccable balance here where taking it further kind of undoes the work that you're trying to do.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're on the same channel this month.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have Molly Laser and Darrell Lawrence on.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: We just recorded it.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll be out right before this.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: We do an episode on the character's cycle man who's a weird FF villain.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a Johnburn story in the eighties where cycle man is tapping into hatred in America and like causing race violence to happen with his little like computer.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's rough.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's an alien character.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can see what the writers are trying to do because in one page it uses this phrase again and word lover, which is weird that Steve is coming out right after.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was not the true light.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It just happened, schedule wise.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then they like beat a white preacher to death on like the next page.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then like you can see what they're trying to do.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: But this was a time in comics in the eighties where they're pushing that a little too much and it's white writers doing it every time.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we can look for the depth that it, but it's really uncomfortable.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right kitty is a teenager, but don't put the end word on the page for any reason at any time.
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's never gonna be all right.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Unless you are a person of color and you have license to do that type of story.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would also like to note like in these spaces where we're having these writers and putting them within context of the time that they're written I think also we understand now that we should be like collaborating with people of color like in these scenarios and writing these stories and not being afraid to address them but also being like let me you know work with my peers people who are experiencing this not the case when these are written but I understand the intent.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and that's been a through line on this show right from the beginning.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to call someone racist unless it's very clear that there's a problem.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we can say that this person was well meaning it was of a particular time and it's still problematic for these reasons.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's some meat here in these conversations.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really pleased to have this space to talk to you.
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you.
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you're both feeling safe.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie attends a surprise party for Kitty in one issue.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: In New Mutants number one, she kind of becomes a member of the supporting cast.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: She meets Swan and Roberto and Danielle and Sam and Rain.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a scene where she's washing Karma's hair and the scene drawn by Bob the Cloud.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's so adorable.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Danny is like projecting shans, origins, Astralian, shan, like leaps on Danny to choke her in a moment of anger because this is a girl who like has been through some shit.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: You guys, shan has one of the deepest trauma backgrounds of any X-Men character.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Iliana's right there.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie tries to stop her, so she puts as one possesses Stevie Roberto slaps her.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, that's page four.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the next issue, we see Stevie take the new mutants to the mall for ice cream, but when she checks to see if Danielle is okay on the way back to school, she ends up getting grabbed by Michael Rossi, the old boyfriend of Carol Danvers who appeared.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie has met before and he's there to warn them about sentinals attacking being activated by project.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Why to wake?
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Stevie like helps the mutants because they literally are attacking the mall, right?
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those old sentinals in the mall kinds of scenes, but she's in like way over her fucking head here, of course.
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: These are death robots.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in the end, Rossi has karma possesses the bureaucrat John Ogulvi and forces him to confess to his crimes, which is a mind-control, right, of course.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: So back at the mansion, Danny gets attacked by something that seems to be the brood, the same aliens that kidnapped the X-Men, anyways.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Steve is going through some stuff like the world of mutants is getting complicated.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we're going to cover one more and then we'll pause in uncanny xman one sixty eight.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie is teaching a grumpy kitty pride in dance class.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Eliana Rasputina is there sitting on the side and a Stevie says do you want to read Stevie in the section number one two three four five six seven eight kitty it would help if you stayed on beat that's what it's therefore done this piece before kitty.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: It isn't that difficult but you've botched it every time today.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: What's alien you girl?
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're getting to hear Nums teach your voice, because there's that thing where the student is capable of better and you know it and you've got to support, but God damn it, do your work.
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Every time.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying Stevie, okay?
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, trying too bloody hard.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Dance is hard work, but it's also supposed to be fun.
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Relax, kitten, let with the music and the movement.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't fight.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Num, you went just a little Southern there, it's cute.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in a fighting mood.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Want to head over to the high school, put some gloves on and spark your arms?
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't darn, why am I yelling at you?
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It isn't you a mad at.
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is being an excellent, that important to you?
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I am, Stevie, you're very belong on.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're a family.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you see?
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: The X-Men are as close to me as my own parents.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: In some ways, closer.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But by shifting me to no mutants, the professor saying that isn't so.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's tearing me up inside Stevie.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know any more what to do.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: resolve a kid out one way or another at the moment you're no good to yourself or anyone else.
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's great how Charles isn't an unreasonable man.
• 37:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you present a strong enough case, he sure changes mine.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't bet on it.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: You want to feel sorry for yourself pride than do it somewhere else.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I got no time for this.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Life is lousy, no argument there.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: What matters is how you cope with it.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Take your anger and do something constructive with.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: fight for what you believe in.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Katie does and it works.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she gets to stay with the X-Men as a result.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love Stevie is the coach here.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I love you.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm here for you.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now get up and do your best.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: That is everything I can relate to.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Can you do have thoughts on Steve's connection to the new mutants?
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's interesting that they picked her out of all of the characters to kind of be the adult in the room because, you know, for the simple fact that she's not a mutant.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at all of the, like, a lot of the human allies, they're love interests.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you kind of look at the list of people, there are exceptions.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the humans in these comics are love interests.
• 38:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not people with responsibility.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're the ones who get saved, not the ones who are saving.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so putting her in with the new mutants says something about the direction that they're trying to take that team and I really love it.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Also, the Xavier mentioned is a school.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty has been the only student for a long time.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So now there's a little team of people who are there.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And new mutants number four, we get a story called what scary or who's scaring Stevie.
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is a really interesting Stevie Hunter story that shows her dedication to people.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a message high Stevie.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know who this is.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I want soon.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll come and get it.
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Stevie starts getting like a really creepy phone calls and the police won't do anything about it.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm gonna cut through some of this quickly.
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a kid named Peter Bristo, who's a kid in a local school.
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a red head.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a white kid.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's being abused by his dad.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: He is a child, but he has a crush on Stevie.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the new mutants help track him down, and Stevie drives a car into a building.
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Endangers civilian starts a fire and defends herself with a stick through the course of this story.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: The kid ends up getting caught.
• 39:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a huge bully.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: He beg Stevie.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't tell my parents, but then he tries to attack Danny because she manifests his fears of his abusive dad.
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: At his core, he feels like he's a terrible person.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a bad boy.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I need to be punished.
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: When I started dancing this hunter, I thought you were the most beautiful woman in the world.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't help loving you.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You said you liked me, but when you wouldn't punish me no matter what I did, I figured you were lying that you really care because if you loved me, you'd hit me.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd want to get even.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, Miss Hunter.
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she hugs him and they both cry, but honestly, just fuck this kid really, really, really, really awful.
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's having like sexual fantasies about his dance teacher and like turns into a full stalker and tries to murder her in this story.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, nope.
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: During all of this Stevie's knee acts up again and Xavier, like says he'll get the kid help.
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Does he get him in therapy?
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Does he put him in foster care?
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've never seen him again.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he joined Orcas later.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Very easy story.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to jump to one more that we'll talk about it.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie in number five accompanies the kids to see Team America perform.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a group of motorcycle performers who when they all join their minds together form the dark rider.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very power Rangers, but eighties on motorcycles.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: We talk about them another time.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would love to do a Team America episode.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Terrorists end up attacking the motorcycle rally and the new mutants rush to action and silver Samurize here and Viper's here and they are scary and Carmen gets hurt and Stevie at one moment gets this little speech.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a missome.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like we're in a war.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a dancer, a teacher, not a superhero.
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: This isn't my style at all.
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And later when Xavier's using cerebral to track the foes, Stevie thinks.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know Xavier's a good man, but it times like this.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like I'm staring at a demon from Fantasia's night on bald mountain.
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: How can anyone wield such power and not be corrupted?
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now what are your thoughts on the Stevie Peter Bristol relationship?
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: My worst nightmare is an educator.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the obsessed student, Wolf.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, like, worse nightmare.
• 41:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, I don't like it.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a bad boy, Stevie, and I thought you loved me, but you won't hit me and spank me.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's wrong?
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have to kill you now.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really truly terrible.
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I did.
• 41:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I did.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Harry, Marvel calls.
• 41:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you get a sixty four page annual, but you have to only write about the character, Peter Bristo.
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you take the job?
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my god, you've met Connie and my able to do.
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: This kid is a hydra agent now.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's no other words for you.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess if you can just flat out make him a villain because that's what he is.
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then again, you are welcome to pass this question.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know all women go through this to a particular extent, but white teenagers or white men fetishizing black women is also a huge problem in our culture.
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if I don't know if you have any comments or not,
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's really just it's something that we have to like navigate these faces up because so much history and things are involved in this Yeah, these are rough stories when we see them TV is the hero here, but also she has to be rescued and she forgives them at the end Which is I don't I don't know I like that for her I suppose because he's a kid he's an abused kid and she sees that if this kid were like two years older if he was like seventeen or nineteen you're like no fuck you know, but like he's present get it
• 42:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think finding forgiveness the Michelle Obama road.
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm bringing it back.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like sure.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: I get it, but also like kid needs some serious help and also maybe like a mind-wipe Xavier.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's how we've read new mutants number five in the last twenty years books.
• 43:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Go pick it up.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll have some feelings.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we're gonna jump to uncanny xman, one, seventy, seven.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: In Stevie's study, Kitty confides that she's struggling because storm has gotten a mohawk and she has gone punk and Kitty is so upset.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's less about the mohawk and more about the changes storm is going through internally and now Kitty has to kind of grow up and she's having her like divorce parents part of her like show up again here.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie says it's only a haircut for goodness sakes and a change of wardrobe.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's so terrible about that?
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: More Stevie, you don't understand.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's changed on the inside as well.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're not gonna spend a lot of time there, but this is a big thing Kitty goes through for a minute.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the kid get over it.
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Stevie's approach sometimes.
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stop making it about you.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not about you at all.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: In New Mutants number thirteen, Stevie attends a barbecue with the Xavier and the new mutants.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she meets Magma for the first time who has worn a formal gown to dinner.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's mildly racist and like wondering why the help isn't waiting on her.
• 44:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, Magma's a rough character.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: She grew up in like a Roman society with fucking Selena's her grandmother, right?
• 44:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, Stevie has a class.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a group of students.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cannonball is so adorable in this issue.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rain changes into wolf form for a moment, and they all scold her because she's in public and Stevie thinks.
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kitty and Rain are the flip sides of the same coin.
• 44:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Each jealous because they see their place threatened by new arrivals.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Each of them so insecure.
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the terrible irony is they've no reason to be easy for me to say the hard parts making them believe it.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if Kitty would enjoy being compared to Rain.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: In a new mutants, for teen before they had to vacation, Stevie helps the new mutants go shopping at the mall.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: The lasco and sim attack from limbo, and there's a demon invasion, and Stevie helps pull Eliana to safety at a key moment.
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Lease with her and an elevator, but she gets a fall and hurts her knee again.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: The pain is bad as ever.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: The wrenching in my leg when I landed didn't help any of my knee won't lock into place.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm completely useless.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: She also sees Eliana's dark side.
• 45:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: In fifting, she's on vacation.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: We can see we get to see her camping with the X-Men when they're telling stories in X-Men annual eight.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: In New Mutants annual one, she's guiding Danielle Moonstar in a stretching routine and Danny gets a Charlie horse in her thigh.
• 45:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she gives her some tough love here.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I like this scene a lot, actually.
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no log in, it's crying.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to prove to me how brave and tough you are.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why is it taking so long to get better?
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hate this.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're lucky to be a lab girl.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, Steady, but
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: times it's so hard.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was for me, too, when I was recovering from my broken knee.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was just standing.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: I screamed a lot.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I cursed.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I broke things.
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: I cried mostly.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: I admit when I was alone.
• 45:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I became a real beast.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I tested my friendships to the limit and discovered who I could truly count on.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: But with their help, I fought.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I got well.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: You mustn't bottle up your emotions, Danny.
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to give them release somehow or you'll tear yourself apart inside.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Take things one day, one step, one mirror.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love this scene a lot.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it tells us a lot about Stevie.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a conversation I have with folks in therapy a lot.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have particular moments in our life.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: The the car gets hit or you miss a step or my mom had like a recent fall down the stairs in a in a moment and like your whole fucking life is changed afterward, right?
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's these little things that happen to us and it doesn't feel fair.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it changes.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: We grow through it though.
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a point where you know, I don't think Stevie would ever say I'm so grateful I got injured.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you can say like I'm a resilient person because of this injury.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: like this thing I went through with something I carry, and I like Stevie's toughness here.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: In Newmune's thirty-eight, Stevie's guiding rain, Eliana, magma, and Doug in some choreography.
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's being so tough on them, especially rain.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: This choreography is nothing new.
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: The moves should be second nature to you, and this time, give it a decent try.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: But now Magneto comes in yelling, and Stevie just does not need this at this moment.
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Ms Hunter or I or any teacher in this school gives you an assignment, you will execute it to the very best of your ability.
• 46:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it was like, I'm fucking out of here and teleports away and Steven says, well, are you trying next punching them out?
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is my class, Magneto.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: And if you have no objections, I'd like to finish it without any more idiot reference.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's when you interfere.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: She called Magneto an idiot.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, is this the Magneto moment you love?
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, to his face.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's delicious.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, they need stones.
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna give it a shot.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can fucking handle it myself, Magneto, like I love it.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: In Newton's, thirty nine, Danny quits the New Mutants, Stevie hugs her goodbye.
• 47:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, she like helps Magneto with Tom Corsi and Sharon Friedlander and Magneto rants about how like empath has been manipulating him.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: In New Mutants, forty three, the New Mutants return from vacation and Stevie who has just finished a workout in the pool and she's in her black bathing suit.
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: She immediately judges them.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: She makes Roberto in a suit, practice first position, and then second position, your muscle tone is non-existent.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the rest of you lay about, it's not much better.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to take some hard work to get you back into condition.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the all the mutants are thinking, Stevie, slave driver, ooh, don't
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Nope, again, that's not a word that we needed to see.
• 48:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give us a break.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is this a prison?
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: She never puts the X-Men through this kind of torture.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, with them, she's tougher.
• 48:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: But again, we'd have to use that S-word in this context, just truly not necessary white students like we want you to go there.
• 48:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It means for eight.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: The new mutants are missing.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie comes to work.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Magneto has activated a little widget robot since she's so annoyed.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was here before US faculty, and he's like, I am so sorry.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't want me to mess up your day.
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we jumped on Kenny X men to seventy.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie is back after years and she has a new red hairdo in like a red leather jacket and she's helping an expanded team of X men evaluate their powers, including storm, who is trapped in a child body.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks to nanny for I love nanny.
• 48:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, to see Stevie and a floral bikini, she is looking good.
• 48:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's enjoying leisure time with the X-Men, but then the genotion magistrates attack, and she is literally running for her life as machine gunfire hits the ground after her, while carrying storm, and then her knee gives out, and storm drops Stevie into a safety hatch onto cable, and the storm in the kids end up getting captured.
• 49:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is the beginning of the extinction agenda.
• 49:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So some key moments there for Steady, who's back after a long time after years.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Personally love and this goes back to my initial commentary.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love how she is like, okay, I'm in this.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna like, save as many people as I can.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna find as hard as I can, even though I'm not a super human.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm still gonna do what I believe is right and like obviously like initially when she starts here she's like I'm hearing this little girl who like I used to know as an adult but like I'm gonna get her as far as safety as I can and like even though like I know this may not end well for me like I'm still gonna protect these kids.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Stevie is full supporting character at this point.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: She is there when Colossus gets possessed by the shadow king.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: She gets taken hostage by Mr. Sinister alongside Valerie Cooper and this is not a woman.
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think Stevie would have much time for
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then she's like an X-force where she's there when it's a double-sheet sensor in the head, so Steady and Bouthing get away.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's in the X-Men and Firmary in X-For Seventeen and they fucking color her white on the page, which is such a bad problem.
• 50:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hate it, but we'll go past it.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: X-For Seventeen, she's like helping Sunspot learn about his powers.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's there when Eliana gets the legacy virus.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's there.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Funeral, she's there at the wedding of Scott and Jean.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then we finally get her in uncanny X-Men annual, a teen where she's like very dark here and has like a very full head of hair and she's teaching Kitty, who she leaves the studio for a bit in Calvin, kidnapped, skinny and she calls the X-Men.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm covering a whole bunch of her shit really quickly.
• 50:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's not a huge character on the page for a long time.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get X-Men gold number nine.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: She is now a Congresswoman.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a fucking coder's woman in New York.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's gets to wear like pant suits and she's called us on Stephanie Hunter.
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: They don't wanna go by Steve.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's just to go by Stephanie at work now.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very exciting.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I, sorry, I love it.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is shock.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I guess you can't exactly check the news when you're trapped in a giant flying space bullet, but I ran in the Connecticut third round around this time.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can't believe I didn't know.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am the worst friend ever.
• 51:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: It takes two to fall out of touch.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she invites Kitty and Peter to testify before Congress to address mutant rights.
• 51:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Kitty gives this amazing testimony against a mutant segregation bill.
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: They whiplash attacks.
• 51:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Steady has to call later and says the bills passing the Senate subcommittee.
• 51:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's great to see this relationship between like two adult women who have like moved on and moved forward with their lives.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: the bachelor at party for Kate in the X men the wedding special and they're at stripper Oki, which is a stripper karaoke place.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's back in X men gold number thirty and she's there helping Kitty view her makeup before the wedding.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's read one more interchange.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hate mascara almost as much as I hate makeup.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to look beautiful, Kitty.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, Stevie, having a United States congressman do my makeup feels a bit like overkill.
• 51:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you planning on complaining this entire time?
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: We also have a moment where Kitty has, she hugs her mother and storm and Stevie all at the same time and says, I'm here with the three women who raised me.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Three strong, wonderful women.
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Stevie's hair here is so gorgeous, like wavy, frizzy curls.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: The later kitty does not go through with the wedding.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: She leaves Peter at the altar and we're just not going to talk about it today.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Mark and Hi, I'm Mark, we can hand wrote this section of Kitty's history.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've interviewed Mark and I've asked him, he just is really fond of Stevie and he wanted to give her a big upgrade.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are our thoughts as Stevie as a congresswoman?
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's actually really smart storytelling.
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's so aware of that world and so aware of the good that the X-Men were trying to do the good of, you know, the possibility of good of mutants, right?
• 52:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Even having seen Magneto transition from leading the brotherhood to leading the X-Men, you know, with the New Mutants were there.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think she has a very strong conviction as well to protect these people in a way that is important, not just for the X-Men before like mutants in general.
• 52:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think joining Congress and being a part of the United States government in that sense
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: is the ability to do a lot of good.
• 53:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think she does it, and she takes it seriously.
• 53:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it almost to me feels like a bit of a course correction.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you get this, there's this period where Stevie gets progressively more responsibility.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's gaining respect.
• 53:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's calling Magneto out multiple times and not getting squished like a bug.
• 53:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like they're building to something.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she's she's
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: becoming more important.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's becoming a full fledged character and then she just kind of goes away.
• 53:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what it feels like.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is some kind of internal change in direction because it feels like they're building up to something and then it just kind of goes.
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this feels like almost a natural continuation of that.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're coming back to that original intent.
• 53:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Stevie is seen as a congresswoman in Immortal Hulk-Thirty-Five during the Zemnure, the Titan stuff by All-Uing.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see her in Ghost Rider, Wolverine, Weapons of Vengeance, Alpha where she sends a warning to the X-Men about Project Hellfire, which is the new Hellvoreen story.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: We also see her in Dazzler number four by Jason Low, my dear friend.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie's dressed in like a gorgeous white pant suit and she and Luke Cage are like giving Dazzler a day into York City and also fighting for mutant rights.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that there has ever been a bad Steady Hunter story.
• 54:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a few key moments with the character that, like, I'm like, oh, why did they write it that way?
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a character who's pretty resonant.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mostly as the dance teacher, as Katie's kind of mother figure, I would love to see more stories from her perspective.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, the biggest thing was when you asked me to do this, you know, to have this conversation, I thought, oh, yeah, that's great.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I could only really remember a couple of moments.
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's much more present than I ever really realized.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a testament to how much the moments that we do get really, really work.
• 54:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they give us a part of the X-Men universe that we don't get to see very often on the page.
• 54:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd love to see
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: see more stories where she and some of the other human allies get to actually stand up and take action.
• 54:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I mentioned in the past, like there are a long list of humans who have been in the X-Men comics.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: But almost like a large majority of the time, they're the love interest.
• 55:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what they do.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the purpose they serve in the story.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there are exceptions.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's the FBI agent Fred.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say Fred Durst.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's definitely not Fred Duncan.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the only person in the world that has written full stories about Fred Duncan that I hoped for today.
• 55:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even to see her ally with people like that who are interested in progressing mutant rights and standing up for what's right, but giving them a chance to take action, I'd love to see that helps inspire those of us who want to be ally, you know, showing that word.
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think would be great to give it space on the page.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's funny because I didn't really feel like I related to her as much, but after going through all of this and seeing her transition through everything, I feel like I do honestly like other realistic level related to her a lot.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's nice to see someone who is about doing what's right, but also like protecting these kids in the sense of like normalcy, like outside of them, just being mutants or outside of them being superheroes, like recognizing these are kids, like they need normalcy, they need structure, they need support.
• 56:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: I honestly would love to see her.
• 56:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think havoc is doing expact right now and they're working with the government in a sense.
• 56:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'd love to see her like in that sphere, like navigating all of that and sort of like being a mentor in the sense of like protecting mutants in this team and like making sure like any mutants that they bring in, it are, you know, taking care of.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that would be a really great spot for her because it's dealing with a mutant team with the government oversight with
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: within government, you know, work in spaces.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it'll be really smart to have her come up there and actually interact with a lot of characters who also maybe she has a really interacted with.
• 56:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think everything I want to see about this character we could find in one story, but I think she needs to be the focus.
• 56:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think she deserves an issue of X-Men sometime.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the easy premise is that she and Kitty have a moment where they are
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know how Claremont would take that character like Charlotte Jones and put them in like a really dangerous situation, Lindsay McCabe, like make them fight for their life.
• 57:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like they are, again, I get killed, but they somehow survive.
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think Stevie needs that kind of story where she gets the moment to save the day.
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So she and Katie are trapped in some sort of situation.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we get a lot of flashbacks to her past.
• 57:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have never seen her childhood her parents.
• 57:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've never seen a love interest.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've never seen her actual accident.
• 57:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've only seen it referenced.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see her dancing.
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see her interactions with some of the early team as she becomes more aware of the world of mutants.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see her reference that time that little white kid stalker.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, run for Congress, we see her in a story where she is in a difficult situation on a political level, and she has to make the right decision, and she stands to lose everything as a result.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a ton of stuff to explore with her.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think she could be a main character in a book, but it has to be written by the right person.
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think a person who is fond of Stevie can write that, but I really think this woman deserves to be written by a women of color.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stephanie Williams, give us an epic Stevie Hunter story someday, please.
• 58:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just in Ireland would write an amazing Stevie Hunter.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a lot about her.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: The piece of her that I relate to most is the artist, right?
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like that part I, this character has done no wrong.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm realizing as we are kind of wrapping up our thoughts here.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Any final thoughts or questions about Stevie Hunter?
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was thinking too, because Katie right now is working with Emma and Extraordinary Xman with a bunch of young mutants too.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that would be a great spot for her to kind of like support.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: But of course, like if we want her to be like a main focus, I feel like she would take a back seat to both Emma and Katie in that sense, but that's just my own opinion.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but she's so grown too.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think this woman has any patience for Emma for us.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Not at all.
• 58:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think it would be good for her to be because they're dealing with a young mutant who need normalcy and who need, especially after what everything can be spent through with Orcas and Krakowen.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it would be good to bring someone back that can help her find her roots and find kind of solidity and being a mentor to these kids because we're such a great mentor for her.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like her in that role and I think we could put her in that kind of mutant affairs role in the Congress and make that really interesting.
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would love to see her interact with Stormmore.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd love to meet her mom.
• 59:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know what, Don's on me, Stevie could be a queer.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's no love interest ever.
• 59:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: She could have a beautiful partner on the side that we've just never met.
• 59:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe she's been in a happy relationship for years.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a lot to explore.
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't really feel it.
• 59:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, actually, as Numb was talking, I thought about how, you know, building on that idea, you know, if Stevie and Kitty are teaching together, that does really kind of bring everything full circle given how Stevie was first introduced, you know, from the point of view of a kitty super fan, I think out of all the people who could talk some sense into her she and
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stevie and Storm are the two biggest ones.
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd love to see a little more space on the page to show how that relationship grows and changes now that she is Kate and not Kitty.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, everything has changed so much.
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stevie Hunter, I love.
• 1:00:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could write this character all day.
• 1:00:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: When I started, I was like really picturing out like, what is it I love about her?
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: This conversation has solidified that.
• 1:00:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we hit her from most every angle.
• 1:00:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we got to cover the problematic stuff without like making it too heavy.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you everybody for sharing your voices, your stories, your thoughts.
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have any final thoughts, I'd love to hear them.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to put this out on March twenty six.
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: As we're up and up, do you guys have any final thoughts?
• 1:00:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where can people find you online and is there anything you'd like to plug?
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go numb and then carry.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, everyone.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: My name is No.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: One.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can find my Instagram under No.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: One, Examine cosplay.
• 1:00:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: By the time this is coming out, I will be gearing up for awesome con.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really excited to go back always.
• 1:00:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Super excited to see all the cosplayers out there.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I'll see you guys there.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Carrie Harris.
• 1:00:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can find me at Carrie Harris book.com.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: March or April, I've got a new miraculous ladybug book coming out.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: No more Marvel.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're currently, but I do have a couple of X-Men books out if you'd like to go back and check them out.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: featuring some of the lesser known characters in the X-Men universe, which are my, and where can people follow you, okay?
• 1:01:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, follow me at Carhartt, C-A-R-R-H-A-R at most, and just about everywhere.
• 1:01:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wonderful, wonderful to see you.
• 1:01:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you for hanging out with me, and bringing so much joy to my Sunday.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, uh, love to be both.
• 1:01:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Over on the main show, we will be doing a script reading from Avengers-Mong-Thirty-Seven, which is the issue where Beast joins the Avengers.
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is a crazy time.
• 1:01:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then in a couple of weeks, we get to read the script to Champions number one, which I'm one as a part of.
• 1:01:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Playing the original Venus.
• 1:01:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: So good to see you soon.
• 1:01:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Follow the show, Gramelk, and underscore land on Instagram.
• 1:01:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And thank you, everybody, for the ongoing support.
• 1:01:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope we are bringing light and joy to your nerd lives in this crazy political time.
• 1:01:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you all back here next time on the Gramelk and Lane Patreon show.
• 1:01:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest and I talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
• 1:01:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Though publicly Hitler and his top aides saw Christianity as foolish and as a distraction from their more fascist ideals, and they even saw national socialism their name for Nazism and Christianity as irreconcilable.
• 1:02:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hitler also recognized that much of the German public identified his Christian, so at times he made some bizarre statements to try to win over the support of those he saw as Christian as his power-based built so that he could eventually transform things the way he saw.
• 1:02:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Always Jews needed to be exterminated, but Christians, even though by the way, Nazis saw Christianity as a derivation from Jewish faith ultimately, Christians had to be tolerated.
• 1:02:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So at times Nazi propaganda would discuss the idea that Jesus was an Aryan, a white savior who was heroic and an anti-Semitic figure who backed
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Aryan and Nazi causes.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a literal place called the institute for the study and eradication of Jewish influence on German church life.
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: They fostered the printing of new bibles that simply removed the Old Testament from all publications.
• 1:02:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: They called it De Judenburg or the Jews book.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they rewrote sections of the New Testament to paint Jesus as a Nazi anti-Jewish kind of warrior figure.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: In private, however, some of Hitler's topics, like Heinrich Himmler, were actually promoting pagan Germanic ceremonies related to Nazism, but believed in the ancient rights of the white Aryan race and its ties to the soil and blood.
• 1:03:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's this thing called the German faith movement or the
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Deutschland Glaubens be wowed.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Deutschland Glaubens be Wagoong and they promoted a new non-Christian spiritual system centered on this blood soil and ancestral heritage.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So in private Hitler saying things to his aides like quote, the heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity.
• 1:03:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: and Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature.
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: There were secret private plans to declare a national religion for Germany after the war that promoted our unism and Nazism.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now there's a number of stories about Christians rising up against the Nazi cause and I'm just going to share one
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: and you'll understand the relevance today's story in just a moment.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: In nineteen forty three, there's a small town called Noadrodec in Poland, which is now in Belarus, I think, in modern maps.
• 1:04:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: This town saw the Nazis wiping out all of their resistance and just literally executing people in the streets for first standing against them, including the town's priest.
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: There was a group of eleven Roman Catholic nuns stationed there in a place called the Congregation of the Sisters of the Holy Family of Nazareth.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they could have fled the scene when they were asked to.
• 1:04:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: They had the opportunity to escape as religious kind of innocence, but they chose to stay and offer comfort and food and healing to the people who had been wounded, knowing that their lives weren't danger.
• 1:04:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And as a result, a few days later, all eleven nuns were arrested on August first, nineteen forty three, taken out by the Gestapo into the woods, shot in the head, and dumped in a mass grave.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Eleven among the hundreds that died in this village, but these were remembered.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: They were killing innocent people innocent nuns specifically.
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in the year two thousand many years later, Pope John Paul II, be out of five the eleven sisters, naming them the blessed martyrs of no-order drug act.
• 1:05:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And no-no-order deck.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's jump to Captain America, two ninety-two, three, ninety-five.
• 1:05:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is nineteen eighty-four by Jam Damateeus and Ron Friends, and it's
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: The culmination of a very long story.
• 1:05:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, our next several episodes on our Red School discussions are going to be all about this story specifically, but it's a huge preamble.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It goes on for like, thirty issues.
• 1:05:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a big build.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's great.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Helmet Zemo, you may recognize that guy from the Thunderbolts, his face horribly scarred after trying to live up to the legacy of his father, Nazi Warcriminal Heinrich Zemo.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: is wearing a purple suit, a latex mask, and a blonde wig while scoping out Captain America and Nomad, Jack Monroe, the nineteen fifties, Kami, Smasher, Bucky.
• 1:05:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Zemo suddenly approached by a woman floating down from the sky in a black robe, cinched with gold braids around the waist, her legs bare, her affloing black cape behind her inlaid with blue.
• 1:05:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: The shoulders come out into spikes, she has on a black skull cap and ornate golden necklace and black heels.
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's like a sexy nun.
• 1:06:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her hair and arms are covered, and frankly, it's a very comfy look, especially when she introduces herself.
• 1:06:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Although I have taken many names over the years, you may call me Mother Superior.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: She pulls up Zemos's mask to see his melted face, and promises to be his greatest friend.
• 1:06:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, we see Arnie Roth, who you may recognize from modern Anthony Olivera stories, Captain America's friend from youth, a heroic veteran who is gay and Jewish, and he's having nightmares.
• 1:06:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: The narrator says, you stand alone in the graveyard.
• 1:06:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: The mist's caressing you like a smoky seriment.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Your heart is torn by the sharp nailed fingers of loneliness and grief.
• 1:06:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: With all your heart, you wish your beloved was beside you again.
• 1:06:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Your wish is granted.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Why then do you run?
• 1:06:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And already stands over the grave of his life partner, Michael, who just recently died.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: and his boyfriend rises out like a zombie with a shock of red hair.
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: As the thing rises from the moisture that's eyes reflect and obscene distortion of a love you once knew, it wants you Arnold Roth, it wants you.
• 1:07:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the zombie bites Arnie as he wakes up with a scream, only to find Baron Zemo, now in pink and purple in gold, and Mother Superior in his home.
• 1:07:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: The nightmares have not ended yet, Jew says Zemo.
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: They warn him that his death is near, and Mother Superior puts Roth back to sleep with a touch to his forehead.
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: He later,
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: realizes that it wasn't a dream that we're really in a apartment.
• 1:07:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're watching him from afar and Mother Superior says she needs to go talk to her father.
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they step inside a haunted house.
• 1:07:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the first appearance of Skullhouse and Mother Superior asks Baron Zemo to speak to his father.
• 1:07:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Papa, he was a great man, a brilliant and noble man.
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: He served the fatherland with pride.
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: He served his family with equal pride.
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: and they walk in on an emaciated old man who's listening to Chopin's funeral march, listeners will recognize that, and Zemo recognizes him as the red skull.
• 1:07:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: So jump forward, Mother Superior telepathically shows Zemo the history of human violence, while also trying to unlock a particular hatred within him.
• 1:07:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: The red skull says, vengeance is a dance that must be carefully choreographed.
• 1:08:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: You begin with slow graceful steps and then build to a climax of power and passion of beating drums and animal frenzy.
• 1:08:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: They end up capturing Captain America's ally at the pacifist Dave Cox, who is a veteran and a father in an amputee.
• 1:08:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: and they mentally turn him into the slayer, sending him after cap and no mad, and Cox ends up resisting sins or mother superiors control as she tries to drive him to violence.
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: He collapses under the strain, lands into a coma to be resolved in a few issues.
• 1:08:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then Mother Superior takes Emo back to her church, where her sisters in sin are waiting, sister dream, sister pleasure, sister agony, sister death.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Arnie Roth has kidnapped the heroes fight the sisters of sin, they end up getting caught in a trap, and it's literally Nazism designed in the nuns of robes in this issue.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a build.
• 1:08:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm summing up a lot at once and it continues into the next episode.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, okay.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a lot.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me welcome my very dear friend, Amanda Martinez to talk about this crazy fucking story.
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Amanda, are you a red skull fan?
• 1:09:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely not.
• 1:09:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely not.
• 1:09:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: So just off the bat one of the things that I loved about reading these reading these issues is that it just again not to like back in my day but like it just reminds me of the old things because like this story even though like it takes place over five issues if this is like the B story that's a building that you know is going to go somewhere because like you skipped over all of the A stories and in one of the comics that I read has nothing to do with
• 1:09:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: any of these things.
• 1:09:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I kept the summary very focused on seeing.
• 1:09:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Which again, obviously makes sense.
• 1:09:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: But like when I was reading, I was like, okay, I'm going to start skimming because this has nothing to do with the red skulls.
• 1:09:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have a feeling we're not going to be talking about the tumbler or the tumbler too.
• 1:09:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: And black crowed.
• 1:09:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I'm just going to like move on ahead.
• 1:10:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: That crow ends up being a big part of this story, but to jump to the end of this and listen, we'll follow along.
• 1:10:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me, the red skull is old.
• 1:10:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's trying to leave a legacy behind and he's got a daughter and he doesn't like her.
• 1:10:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he wants the daughter of war criminal barren Zemo as his son of war criminal barren Zemo as his heir instead.
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he's building he wants Captain America to suffer.
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's talking about choreographing this big dance and it's all leading to a huge culmination at a little bit.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and at one point in the story when Mother Superior and Zemo are watching so Jeff and also like Jack also has like the weird nightmares which I'm assuming is going to play out in this as well at one point.
• 1:10:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: So no mad Sam Wilson Falcon or any Roth
• 1:10:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: and Captain America are all playing cards together at like three a.m.
• 1:10:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: And Zemos, like all of his friends are with him now, let's kill him now.
• 1:10:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: And she's like, no, no, no.
• 1:10:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: We have more things to do.
• 1:10:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, oh, yeah, like the truce, low build, like the bad guys are plotting kind of stuff, which which is in my opinion is always as always more fun.
• 1:11:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I truly wish this was the last red skull story ever written.
• 1:11:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: He does die at the end of this, and it's a great ending for the character, but then of course he's back a few years later.
• 1:11:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we got about eight points to talk about, so I'm going to toss a few things at you.
• 1:11:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Number one, I'm going to talk about the fashion of Mother Superior and the sisters sitting because they're me!
• 1:11:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it is, it is like none-cunt personified or like hornun personified.
• 1:11:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like it is, and also like, you know, each one has like their like little specialty or like little thing.
• 1:11:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: I am a sucker for like a specialized team uniform.
• 1:11:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: So like they all have like the black skull cap and like sort of like a black body suit in one way or another and then like accessories to go with.
• 1:11:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: also they give very female theories of the DC universe where it's like there's like the big one who's strong there's the one who has claws there's the one who has like the mental powers which is just again a whole lot of fun but yeah the the fashion
• 1:12:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, mother, mother superior.
• 1:12:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: She, I mean, she looks in a credible, again, I have come to realize there is a strict, no-fascist costume cosplay policy, but mother superior and unfortunately Andrea Fenris, like, they just have good looks, but they're horrible people.
• 1:12:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: I just don't think it could ever.
• 1:12:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the interesting thing about these characters, we'll cover their origin in another episode to come shortly, but these are children.
• 1:12:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: The red school has a young daughter and he like adopts some friends for her from an orphanage and then ages them all up to adulthood after brainwashing them.
• 1:12:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: When she arrived on in the script, I was like, chat sent me a picture of her at least six months ago telling me it's like, look into this hot, hot ass mess.
• 1:12:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get it right down.
• 1:12:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get it right down.
• 1:12:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so really fun superhero antics.
• 1:12:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a really fun supporting cast here.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love a fucking love burn it at Rosenball.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
• 1:13:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, so this is my first introduction to her.
• 1:13:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love her.
• 1:13:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: So like, I, I, I, because I'm, again, I'm an, I'm an X man girlie.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: So like, like, I know of other heroes, but like a lot of their supporting cast.
• 1:13:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why I did Google her afterwards.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh, she sounds fun.
• 1:13:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: And also like in the, so like, she gets a couple of really good moments in this.
• 1:13:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: But like caps like whole support thing and the thing is it's in an era where a supporting cast of a book was like really important.
• 1:13:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like there needed to like be these non superhero people that a character needed to have to sort of flesh them out like like Arnie Roth and Bernie Roosevelt.
• 1:13:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: But I also love that, you know, he takes her back to the Avengers mansion and
• 1:13:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And like they're kind of like flirty, whatever, and she's like, oh, there's a mosquito.
• 1:13:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Go away, mosquito, but no, it was the wasp.
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: She was at the beginning.
• 1:13:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was making noise at like three a.m.
• 1:13:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Which is great.
• 1:13:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love, I love that.
• 1:13:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: But no, she just seems like super, like super fun.
• 1:14:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's, she's definitely like Captain America has lowest flame in this arc.
• 1:14:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's how, how she's kind of like portrayed where she's like the, I would say like the Margo Kidder, like lowest thing where she's like kind of like peppy and
• 1:14:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's an issue, there's an issue a few years before this storyline where Bernie is just kind of started dating Steve Rogers.
• 1:14:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he does the Spider-Man thing where he has to rush off and then he comes back as Captain America fight the bad guys.
• 1:14:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she immediately, and this is such a, I caught a glimpse in my range, she's like, wait a minute, that's fucking Steve Rogers.
• 1:14:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I know that's him.
• 1:14:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, then she confronts him to very next issue.
• 1:14:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, yeah, it's like a smart woman.
• 1:14:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, where she's like glasses.
• 1:14:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's also some great shit with Arnie Roth here.
• 1:14:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Arnie Roth here, here at that Anthony Leverra has really brought back in just such a prominent, incredible way.
• 1:14:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's kind of just this do-y older, lonely story.
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dematase created this character.
• 1:14:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: He is very canonically gay, although it never quite says it.
• 1:15:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's also very closely portrayed as like he was in love with Steve when they were kids.
• 1:15:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was also Steve's hero.
• 1:15:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was like the guy that would beat up the bullies who would pick on little skinny street Steve Rogers, you know.
• 1:15:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: or hero.
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a moment in an earlier issue where Steve like realizes he's gay.
• 1:15:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was like, buddy, I love you and aren't he's like, oh my god, I love you too.
• 1:15:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so like the dies, it's really sad.
• 1:15:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: No man has kind of a shitty line where it's like where Steve was like, oh, yeah, you know, aren't he his my friend or whatever, you know, we grew up together blah, blah, blah.
• 1:15:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: And no man's like, well, what else is he?
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: The way he was talking about and then they get cut off, you know, the man's also really shitty.
• 1:15:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Demand later so I mean the guy who turns out to be homeless and weird But also queer, so I was talking about no that I was talking about demon.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well demon also ends up homeless
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Mother Superior and Baron Zemo, this little team up, they want to hit Cap from the part perspective of his allies, who the Red Skull deems as not worthy of Cap, his true enemy, right?
• 1:16:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cap's hanging out with Jewish people and black people and pacifists and homosexuals, and they like really quite horribly attack Arnie with these like nightmares.
• 1:16:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're really torturing him, and it gets worse over him before it gets better at the end.
• 1:16:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love the fact that they're flushing out these side characters and like making them important because again, and order for you to care about them being captured by the villain, you need to care about them first.
• 1:16:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is my introduction to Dave Cox and him.
• 1:16:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: being an MPT like we're introduced him giving his son a literal bath in the bathtub, which is adorable.
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then like you meet his wife and it's like this cute little family.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very adorable and like, uh, and when because when cap shows up, Dave's like, oh, so, uh, you have a fight and a villain down here in these parts as though like, like, they're in Virginia like they're super that south, but you know, whatever.
• 1:16:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: He was super fun.
• 1:16:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: And also I think it's weird that they brainwash him and give him like the demon slayer costume with like the teleporting cape, which is super weird because what isn't that guy still existing over here?
• 1:17:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, double slayer.
• 1:17:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I'm in pain.
• 1:17:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: The double slayer.
• 1:17:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think you guys need to find this character.
• 1:17:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dave Cox has twelve appearances after this storyline ends in cap three hundred.
• 1:17:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't see him again for twenty five years.
• 1:17:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's only shown up in one comic book since that that was nine.
• 1:17:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then Helmet Zemo, of course, as the heir to Baron Zemo.
• 1:17:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now in November, we're going to be doing the trial of Baron Zemo on my show.
• 1:17:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot to say about this guy.
• 1:17:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have Sin Mother Superior and Baron Zemo as the next generation.
• 1:17:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Their fathers are Nazi war criminals and the expectation that they will carry on the legacy is a big piece of these characters.
• 1:17:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's like the Evelyn carnit.
• 1:17:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's also like it's the team up that like Fenris wishes that they were.
• 1:17:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, you know, Andrea Strucker's dress is a nun before.
• 1:17:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: For Andreas, of course.
• 1:18:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: But also, like, both of them sort of feeling the pressure of like, oh, like, I have to be perfect.
• 1:18:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then when he sees red skull, he's like, oh, it's red skull, like, oh, my gosh, this, like puts even more pressure on it.
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's kind of interesting.
• 1:18:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like the play on like a legacy hero character where it's like, oh, a legacy villain where it's like, oh, I don't want to
• 1:18:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Fuck up in front of like my greatest hero.
• 1:18:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, kind of thing.
• 1:18:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: And also like red skull and the issues that he's in is portrayed mostly like in the shadows like he really don't ever get a really good look at him and in most of these issues.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: So like at first I was wondering I was like, is
• 1:18:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Is this really red skull or is like sin playing a game?
• 1:18:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
• 1:18:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is sin.
• 1:18:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember when you first sent me her stuff like, oh, yeah, I was like, no, yeah.
• 1:18:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll get into the origins of sin and stuff.
• 1:18:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I, so that I remember like sort of like what her whole deal is.
• 1:18:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, no, no, this is the red skull.
• 1:18:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's interesting that again, they're not like showing him.
• 1:18:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: They're just telling you that it's him.
• 1:19:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I, like, is it to put a shadow of it out that this may not be the red skull?
• 1:19:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
• 1:19:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's very fun.
• 1:19:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, it's very old school villainy nonsense.
• 1:19:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, there's a number of reasons I wanted you on for this episode in particular, mostly for the sisters of sin.
• 1:19:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: But also, Dmanda and I, although we are recent friends in the last three years were close friends and Dmanda and I both grew up Mormon.
• 1:19:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is Nazism in the veil of Catholicism, which is mod comparison.
• 1:19:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you heard me with my opening talk about how fascism will often draw hard lines against certain people, transgender people, Jewish people, you know, whoever that is immigrants.
• 1:19:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then they have to win the loyalty of others by kind of framing it a certain way, even though the agenda ultimately does not match what the values of that religion are.
• 1:19:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, religions already have a lot of hateful messages in people that are different anyway, but when we compare this to twenty twenty five America, and this kind of Naziism or fascism, veiled as like Christianity, and like white intersting wrenched awful arionism of it all, there's some really bizarre Nazi parallels to what Hitler was trying to do.
• 1:20:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'd love to hear your thoughts on the story or even just the topic of Christian fascism because fuck all of this I hate it so much terrible right now.
• 1:20:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's exhausting is what it is because it's so interesting that these white people and it's also funny talking about this as like white people.
• 1:20:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: But like these white people who will take her religion that has been around for thousands of years started in the Middle East and still make it all about white people.
• 1:20:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, maybe this had nothing to do with you.
• 1:20:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: This still kind of has nothing to do with you.
• 1:20:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's so interesting that like they they took this and made it to be such a thing.
• 1:20:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: And and
• 1:20:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: like what a powerful tool it is in the sense of if you if you blink it your bad deeds under this veil of religion and this veil of but we're doing it for the right reasons and because you know because God said so how many people kind of fall for that right you know we're shooting nuns out in the woods right
• 1:21:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, it's it's crazy or like we're kidnapping people off the street and selling them off to foreign countries like in alligator alcatraz no phrase makes me more angry than that one right and it's and it's so crazy to me that these.
• 1:21:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: these white Christians will somehow make up excuses that these are somehow good things.
• 1:21:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, like, so not only did you not pay attention in church in all of the lessons that we all have been taught and learned since children going to church, but you also didn't pay attention in school in a history class, like you are willfully being ignorant to what is actually happening in the world in order for for what for you to
• 1:22:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: feel better for you to feel superior for you to feel like you have that you are the one who's going to be in control as though if you were as seen as any kind of threat you wouldn't be next and like
• 1:22:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: And like that's that's like the crazy thing that I think a lot of people don't get that it's like yeah, you're in the end crowd until you're not in the end crowd anymore.
• 1:22:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's easy for people to draw this comparison.
• 1:22:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: The hanging of a maga flag at this point with messages like drain the swamp and try that in a small town.
• 1:22:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is kind of akin to the hanging of a swastika, which is a rough thing to realize, but it's kind of a bit of a hate crime at this point.
• 1:22:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: But for certain people, the hanging of a cross is the same thing, which is funny for you and I, because we grew up in a very entrenched, colty, awful religion, but we lose crosses, Mormons don't use crosses, but it becomes very much the sign of, I'm allowed to do this to you, because I'm morally superior because of my values, which is the antithetical response to any Christian stable ever, but the Nazis were literally rewriting the Bible!
• 1:23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, yes!
• 1:23:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're just selling the Bible!
• 1:23:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: the winners of history are the ones who get to write it.
• 1:23:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's it's crazy to you know people are mad about quote unquote rewriting history and I'm like no they're not rewriting history they're just only what actually happened instead of what America wanted us to believe had happened because even so again also growing up
• 1:23:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: in a Mormon household, and my parents being from Utah, most of my cousins still living in Utah, and us going out there to visit a lot.
• 1:23:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Westerns are a big part of our culture, obviously, and watching Western movies, and that sort of amazing cowboy stories, and watching them now
• 1:23:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's there's some that I can still kind of watch and be like, okay, well, this is kind of fun, but there are some that I just I just can't anymore thinking about like how folks all of these narratives are like anything that's like relatively quote unquote historical and like no, that is obviously like that would happen.
• 1:24:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've got Christian in my belief at any point.
• 1:24:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I'd consider myself an atheist if I have to use the label, but I am Christian and adjective, right?
• 1:24:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I'm a very Christian person.
• 1:24:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind to people.
• 1:24:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I make room for people.
• 1:24:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: The story of those nuns staying behind to like help the town and knowing they were going to be executed.
• 1:24:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that would be me, even though that's heartbreaking to have to make a decision like that.
• 1:24:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:24:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a social worker.
• 1:24:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when you, when you veil all of this, uh, so for listeners of my show, we keep this fun, but part of the reason we're having these conversations is to keep it real at the same time.
• 1:24:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when we're framing it with these stories, it just, it allows me the room to give voice to some of what I think a lot of us are feeling these days.
• 1:24:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even though I know these conversations are triggering, I hope you're like, fuck yeah, but I'll see you want to punch a wall at the same time.
• 1:24:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: And also, I think you're very smart in doing like these small little bursts instead of like trying to tackle all of this and like, let's do a twelve hours on the wrist.
• 1:25:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
• 1:25:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: This sort of particular, it also, like, it's a little bit of the idea of like, it being a little camp, because obviously like, Mother Superior, so can't be.
• 1:25:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, right, like that, that's like the villainous camp of it.
• 1:25:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 1:25:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's almost like, do I, do I wonder whether or not we, that, that has, that wasn't helpful.
• 1:25:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:25:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And do we must grow up queer in this, right?
• 1:25:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have a large portion of an issue where a lady and a non-cost human a man and a Nazi costume are torturing a gay Jewish man with thoughts of his gay lover coming back from the dead to eat him.
• 1:25:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yes.
• 1:25:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well.
• 1:25:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Staying to him and taste my friend.
• 1:25:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love you.
• 1:25:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
• 1:25:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
• 1:25:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, I know that memes are a little bit harmful as well in the stage, but like I saw a meme recently was like, what something that you feel like changed like change and it's like, oh, like realizing that Nazis are always the bad guy.
• 1:26:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like, when the story was written, Nazis are of course about guys.
• 1:26:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: So there was never any question that these guys were the bad guys.
• 1:26:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: They are villains.
• 1:26:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: They are horrible people.
• 1:26:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: They are going to have to be defeated by the good guy.
• 1:26:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like, so fast for the end.
• 1:26:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Captain America, three hundred.
• 1:26:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Captain America is an old man because red skulls aged him up and red skulls an even older man and it's a fist fight to the death.
• 1:26:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Redskull wants them to die together.
• 1:26:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's poison them both.
• 1:26:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna have a fist fight so we can battle for eternity.
• 1:26:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're my only worthy foe.
• 1:26:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: You beautiful blonde Aryan.
• 1:26:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is basically the Redskull's story.
• 1:26:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a big fight.
• 1:26:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at the end, caps like, dude, I'm not gonna kill you.
• 1:26:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the Redskull's like, you must.
• 1:26:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he just has a heart attack and dies.
• 1:26:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's the perfect ending.
• 1:26:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cause this pain man just falls over it.
• 1:26:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're like, yeah.
• 1:26:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes, it's so, but anyway, so like the camp of it all because like even that like what what a great ending to like this horrible terrible like villain but also he still has like this this like Kentucky daughter who he like aged up and he named your Cynthia S.I.N.T.A.
• 1:27:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: in India.
• 1:27:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So
• 1:27:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: And again, I'm forgetting how or why or whatever.
• 1:27:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: And again, we don't have to get into it.
• 1:27:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, he gave her like these magic powers that she then loses, which makes zero sense.
• 1:27:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk.
• 1:27:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk in two more red skull conversations.
• 1:27:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to go into the origins of said.
• 1:27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So stay tuned.
• 1:27:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Demand, I love you.
• 1:27:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're one of my people on the whole planet.
• 1:27:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: We just got to hang out at uncanny experience.
• 1:27:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just riding high and I can't wait to see you in New York in a couple of weeks.
• 1:27:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: I know.
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Any final thoughts?
• 1:27:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, so these stories also the A stories and these are super fun.
• 1:27:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's all cool comics nonsense, which is again, would recommend.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: If you like, if you like slow burn.
• 1:28:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: If you like where you get like sort of that reprieve of kind of nuts and also like the whole tumbler tumbler to issue is also like really fun because like cap does like the sailor moon thing where he turns his villain into a friend, which is just kind of awesome.
• 1:28:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was, it was a fun little story to read this afternoon before recording.
• 1:28:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of banger Captain America comics, but Jamdemate is leading into Mark Greenwald right afterward.
• 1:28:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: You could read a whole like hundred and fifty issues in a row and they stay pretty great.
• 1:28:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because this is a reminder of what America's supposed to be according to the value system in the nineteen ages and standing up for the underdog and fighting against the oppressive autism, right?
• 1:28:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I was going to say like,
• 1:28:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Cap in this book is like what everyone wants Captain to be.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like when people talk about Captain America, like this is that ideal.
• 1:28:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's a nice guy.
• 1:28:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: He wants everyone to be good.
• 1:28:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's playing card with a black man, a gay Jew, his Jewish girlfriend, and his pacifist soldier friend, or all hangin' out around.
• 1:29:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hangin' out?
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:29:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Amanda, I love you.
• 1:29:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody stay tuned.
• 1:29:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you back here next time for our next Red Skull Composition.