Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #27: Interview with Dr. Alan Chase, Director, EyeRetreat.org | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA | June 9, 2025

Transcript

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #27: Interview with Dr. Alan Chase, Director, EyeRetreat.org | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA | June 9, 2025 · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

0:12
Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA,
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invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast,
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Remarkable World Commentary.
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Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
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insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access technology and information.
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As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan: All right, so you and I met through our mutual friend Janet Perez last year,
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and you gave me a wonderful opportunity to be part of your camp.
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Thank you very much, sir.
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I was tutoring in advocacy, basics of advocacy,
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basics of entrepreneurship.
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And you kindly invited me back this year to participate in entrepreneurship.
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Thank you very much. So let's get started with the first question.
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I want to talk about your spark of inspiration.
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Okay. After you lobbied for North Carolina's act.
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But, you know, the disability and the Awareness Month Act.
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And this was done in 2008.
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You launched the I retreat camp.
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What personal or legislative insight can Vince you that such a camp was necessary?
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Dr. Alan Chase: Yes. Great. Donna. Well, again, I want to express my appreciation to
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you for being part of our camp last year and coming back this year.
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And we hope that you continue to come back in future years.
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Donna J. Jodhan: I will.
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Dr. Alan Chase: Our our my inspiration or I'll I'll say our inspiration really is rooted in the passage
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of that piece of legislation.
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And so the the backstory to it is that at the time myself and,
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A group of of young disability rights advocates.
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We we know we knew that there was a lack of knowledge.
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There was a lack of education.
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And so we we advocated for the law.
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The law was passed. And that was great.
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Step number one was we had to get it on the books.
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Step number two, though, was, well, what do we teach and how do we
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teach it? And this is where things got a little complicated at the time.
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At the time I, I had I had finished college and I was trying to figure out what I wanted
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to do next. And my goal, my aspiration at the time was really to
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become an attorney. And so my goal was to go to law school.
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And so I really wasn't quite interested in the education arena.
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But for the fact that my undergraduate degree was in education.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Dr. Alan Chase: And so what happened was, is this group got together and they and and
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they wanted to create this curriculum and create this,
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this program as part of implementing the North Carolina Disability Awareness Month
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Act. And the, the the individuals who were funding and leading that effort,
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they said, well, you know, since you're developing curriculum that's
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going to be used in a school, you need somebody who has a teaching license.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Oh, dear. Okay.
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Dr. Alan Chase: And so tag I was it because out of that group of young disability rights advocates,
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I was the only person who had a teaching license because I had like I said,
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I had just graduated college, and I had my teaching license so that that
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got me really invested in developing the program,
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developing the curriculum and such.
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And the other big aspect was that we wanted it to be peer led.
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That was that was one of our core beliefs and core values,
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was we didn't want this to just be something that a teacher in a classroom somewhere read
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to students, shared with students.
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We wanted it to be really meaningful.
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And so we wanted it to come from people with disabilities themselves.
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And so that and that's one reason why we then decided,
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well, the only way to really do that truly is to have a summer program,
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a summer camp where you bring all of those people together.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Dr. Alan Chase: So our goal at the time was self-advocacy.
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We wanted to teach people how to how to use their voice,
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how to be a self-advocate.
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And we did that for a couple of years.
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And then, you know, through through natural attrition,
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most of of our students at the time, they were in high school,
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most of them then went to college.
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And we started hearing from them, you know, what you taught me was great.
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Thank you so much. But I'm I'm still struggling with college.
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I'm struggling with the social aspect I'm struggling with.
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How do I navigate talking to a professor?
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How do I how do I access disability services and things like that?
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And so then our our program slowly transitioned into more of a of a college
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preparation program where we we then merged the two concepts of being a self-advocate and
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college Transition. And that went on for a couple of years.
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And then finally what happened is that again as as the years went on,
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we had more and more individuals come through the program and,
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and go off to college and go off to do other things.
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And then some of them started to come back again.
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And they they would say, hey, they would say,
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hey, doctor Chase, thank you so much for teaching me about being an advocate and and
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how to be successful in college.
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But now I can't find a job.
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And so then where that's, that's where our career and entrepreneurship
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track sort of was born was out of necessity.
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And if we trace that back, you know one of the things that I always like
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to do is I like to look back at history and, and say,
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you know, are we still doing the same thing over and over again.
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Is it working? Is it not working?
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And he at least, you know, here in North Carolina and I would suspect in
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most other states and maybe even most other countries.
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Our school for the blind was established 180 years ago this this year it was it turned 180
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years old.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Is this the Morehead School?
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Dr. Alan Chase: It is the Governor Morehead School.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right. Okay.
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Dr. Alan Chase: And so I had of course, you know, fast forward I ultimately did go to
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law school and as part of my thesis I had to write,
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I dug into the history of the school, and and wouldn't you know it,
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about 180 years ago, one of the the principles of the founding of the school was
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to teach individuals who are visually impaired how to be successfully employed.
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And so I thought to myself how how can this how can we be in the same position
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now? What are we not doing right?
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What can we do differently?
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And and I think that's where the, the entrepreneurship aspect really began to
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take, take hold because we wanted to empower individuals to to know if you are not able
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to obtain gainful employment because somebody out there is not willing to give you a chance
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because there is a an uneducated employer who doesn't understand the skills that a,
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a blind person can bring to their company and start your own business.
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Donna J. Jodhan: I think this is very much in line with my own transitioning to a new world initiative.
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And this is what drew me to your camp, because I firmly believe that that,
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you know, any body leaving high school or young adults or teens or whoever,
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they need to be independent, confident, and most of all to believe in
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themselves. Right. And and that's so important.
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But tell me more about how Governor Morehead School has helped to shape things as you go
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along.
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Dr. Alan Chase: So the school itself has been a great supporter of of our program,
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but of mostly children with visual impairments around the entire state.
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So one of the things that I want to mention is that like any good,
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any good leader, whether you're a business leader,
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a school leader, you know you have to you have to look at at transformation and you
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have to look at how can we adapt to the times.
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And so one of the things that is interesting about the Governor Morehead School is that
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back let's go. Let's go back maybe 15 years ago.
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Right. The school had a very comprehensive program where it served children from birth
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all the way to age 22.
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Right now, during the height of the global recession,
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the the state government, in an effort to cut some costs,
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made some legislative decisions.
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One of those was to essentially dismantle certain aspects of the school and farm them
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out to other state government agencies.
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And so what this resulted in is, is then different services for different
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populations, for individuals with visual impairments were then operating in silos.
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And so, for example, back in 15 years ago, the Governor Morehead preschool,
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which served children from birth to age five,
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they served almost 500 students.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Oh.
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Dr. Alan Chase: But today that number is probably around 200.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Oh. So it has dropped off a lot.
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Dr. Alan Chase: It has.
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Donna J. Jodhan: And why is this?
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Dr. Alan Chase: Well, I would I would suggest that the main reason is because of the publicity and
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because of where, where the program is now housed.
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So it was moved to a different state agency.
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The name of the program was changed.
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And there were some other requirements and stipulations that were placed on the program
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in terms of the, the age, age groups that it could serve.
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And so and again, what happened, one thing that the the media is really good
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at is they're good at covering certain news stories that are that are newsworthy.
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One thing they're not so good at is is the follow up.
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And because again so during that period of time you know there was a lot of news
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coverage around the Governor Morehead School and and budget cuts.
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And there was even talk at one point of the school closing altogether.
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And I still talk even today, 15 plus years later I still talk to people
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who say, is the school open?
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Does it even exist? Because people just don't know.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Has this hurt in any way?
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I mean, if Governor Morehead School is heavily involved with with the retreat camp
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and people don't really know if the school is still open,
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how has this hurt you in any way?
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Is this why the numbers are down?
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Dr. Alan Chase: Well, the I think the numbers for the school are down.
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Because of the publicity and because of some of the legislative changes and such.
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The on the other side, the, the retreat itself,
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because we are a we are a nonprofit we are a separate entity from the school.
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We we do complement the school, and we support the school and its students
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and even students beyond the school.
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It has not necessarily affected us, per se.
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We are experiencing some significant growth at the retreat.
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We are you know, we the number of students that we can accept really is dependent upon.
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Well, how many beds do we have and and how much money do we have?
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You know, as a, as a nonprofit, we we have no staff,
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we have no employees. And all 100% of our operating costs comes from donations and
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small grants that we receive.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Where do you get these grants from?
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And how do you apply for these grants?
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Dr. Alan Chase: Well, that's a really good question. And this is one of those things where,
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you know I think my skill set has has emerged and developed over the years.
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I will I will not pretend to suggest that I'm an expert grant writer,
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but I've I've gotten I know just enough about it to get myself in trouble.
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And so the the Delta Gamma Foundation has been a long time supporter of the I retreat.
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The Lion's Club has been a long time supporter,
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of course. Again, the Governor Morehead School is has been a huge supporter.
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We've been using their campus for 18 years.
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This this will be our 18th summer.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Dr. Alan Chase: We, you know, we do pay a very nominal fee for dormitory space.
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We we pay a very nominal fee for meals.
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But those things do when you while they're nominal,
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when you multiply that by the number of people who come that costs can,
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can rise. So those have been our some of our,
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our biggest donors. We've in the past, we've applied for grants for some community
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foundations and and other places, and we've gotten some here and there.
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But you know, we're always looking for individuals who who have that skill set and
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are and are willing to contribute and help.
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Donna J. Jodhan: And is this just open to students of North Carolina or participants of North Carolina,
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or is it, you know, countrywide?
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Nationwide?
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Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, that's that's a fantastic question.
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We we actually, I, I think we can claim that we are international.
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Oh, we my most I would say by far, by far most of the people live either in
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North Carolina or, you know, close by a neighboring state or,
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or so. We have some individuals this, this particular summer we have some
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individuals who are coming from new Jersey, California,
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the state of Washington.
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So all over. So really we do we do have applicants and people come from,
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from all over the United States.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Dr. Alan Chase: A couple of years, several years ago, right before the Covid 19 pandemic,
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we did have two individuals that we actually still have some contact with who came to
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us from Mexico.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Isn't that great? And, you know, I think what what makes me even
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more honored and privileged is that I am in Canada,
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and and here I am being one of your mentors or whatever you want to call me.
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So it's it's great to hear you say that.
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Hopefully you will expand your, your your group of international
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participants. Maybe next year.
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What do you think?
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Dr. Alan Chase: I would, I would love to I would love to be able to expand our not only our applicants
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and where people come from, but I would also love to expand the retreat
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altogether. I would love to see retreats popping up all over the world in different
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places. Because, again, I think our model, what this tells me is that
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what we're doing is, is unique and special and different.
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Because if it if this was happening in other places,
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people wouldn't come all the way here to North Carolina just for one week if it was
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available in their backyard.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Are you doing anything, any.
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Do you have plans to advertise, to expand, and if so,
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how so?
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Dr. Alan Chase: You know, I think by far our biggest advertising and publicity is word of mouth.
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That's the, you know, we try to have great customer service.
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We try to put on a great program where people not only learn,
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but they have some fun.
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And and that's why we, we we brand it as a camp,
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but it's, it's sort of a hybrid of a of a conference,
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a camp, summer school all kind of rolled into one because we want we want people to come.
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We want them to learn.
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We want them to leave with some, some meaningful information about how to go
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to college, how to get a job, how to start a business.
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But then we also want them to build social skills and build their networks.
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And that's sort of more of the, the camp side,
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the fun side. So we're always trying to spread by word of mouth connecting more with
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other organizations, other nonprofits that serve the blind and visually impaired
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population. We we love being, you know, presenting at conferences and being
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on podcasts like we are here.
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Just to just to get the word out there.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Have you been to any conferences thus far?
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I guess you have been to several, right?
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Dr. Alan Chase: We have. We we presented several years ago.
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I want to say maybe 2018 or 2019.
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We went to the the air, which is the Association for the Education
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and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired.
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We went to we went to their international conference in I think it was in when it was
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in Reno, Nevada. And we, we presented about the,
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our retreat there. I did travel at one time to Canada.
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I went to Ottawa for.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Oh, nice.
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Dr. Alan Chase: Yes, for the the deafblind International Conference.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Dr. Alan Chase: So, you know, because we one thing I that's important to us is we,
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we want people to be included.
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So you might have a visual impairment, but you may have other disabilities,
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and that's fine. We want, you know, we we want you to come.
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You may have a you may be deaf, blind.
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You may have other disabilities that that go along with your visual impairment.
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We we accept anyone exactly how they are.
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Donna J. Jodhan: That was going to be my next question.
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Like, is your camp open just to persons who are blind or vision impaired or with low
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vision, or is it with all different types of disabilities?
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Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, it's a good question. So they they do have to have a visual impairment.
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That is the the, the foundation of it, but they might have other disabilities that
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go along with it. And and again, you know, that's one thing that I think that
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makes us a little different.
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We we again, we we know that programs like ours do exist.
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Most of them are run by state, state or local government agencies.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Dr. Alan Chase: And what we've found is that those programs are a little bit more restrictive on who they
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who they accept. And the one thing that that we do that they don't do that I'm,
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I'm the most proud of is, is our peer mentoring and our peer
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leadership. That's, that's that core value that,
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that I mentioned earlier that we, you know, we,
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we will never get away from because that's that's who we are.
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And we have we have individuals who have come to us as a student,
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returned as a mentor and then moved up.
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Now we have we have some people that are coordinators that have been with us for many,
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many years, and we're helping them to to build their skills,
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build their resume, and they're giving back.
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Donna J. Jodhan: I think that's important.
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You know, like to to foster peer development so that I train somebody that somebody goes
23:49
on and train somebody else.
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And and this is how sustainability is accomplished.
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Right? Your motto in action.
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Tell me more about it.
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I retreat from no challenge.
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How is that working for you?
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Dr. Alan Chase: You know, it's I think it's a great motto and it's something that we we live by and we try
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to to model that.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah.
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Dr. Alan Chase: And so the the whole premise behind it is that no matter,
24:19
no matter what challenge you might face, don't don't retreat from it.
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Don't run away from it.
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Face, face the challenge head on.
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And then our goal would be to give you the tools to help you face that challenge.
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And so we build those into one of the, one of the great things about our,
24:40
our week is at the beginning of the week.
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A lot of it is, is kind of classroom classroom based lecture based sessions,
24:53
workshops where you know, you're sitting at a desk and we're,
24:57
we're talking about how to do XYZ and so on.
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And by the end of the week, we're actually doing so we're taking what you
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did at the beginning of the week in that classroom where we were, we were just talking
25:13
about it. And at the end of the week we are we're actually going and visiting a local
25:18
university. We're going and we're visiting a local business that is run by a person who is
25:26
visually impaired. We're riding public transportation.
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So we're actually doing those things so that you have to apply the skills that you are
25:36
learning.
25:39
Donna J. Jodhan: Tell me about give me a brief description of a typical day at the camp.
25:47
I know there's so many things that you teach and you,
25:51
you reach out, you engage, you communicate with your students.
25:54
But it's all a mixture of classroom learning and daily life skills and social skills.
26:02
Can you tell our listeners or give us a little description of what a typical day at
26:09
the camp would be?
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Dr. Alan Chase: So our typical day is first and foremost.
26:17
There is a there's breakfast and there's nobody there to wake you up.
26:23
You have to get up on your own.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Oh.
26:26
Dr. Alan Chase: And get to breakfast. And that's the first lesson.
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The first lesson of the day is responsibility.
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So
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Donna J. Jodhan: Do they make their own breakfast or they're given breakfast?
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Dr. Alan Chase: So the school, the school provides breakfast.
26:40
The students eat in the school cafeteria.
26:43
Donna J. Jodhan: Oh, okay.
26:44
Dr. Alan Chase: But the lesson that we try to teach is that you know,
26:49
a lot of, a lot of our students are used to somebody doing things for them.
26:54
Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
26:55
Dr. Alan Chase: And so I set the expectation, and then they have to manage that
27:00
expectation. So for some for some individuals,
27:04
they might be able to get up five minutes before breakfast time and and get there on
27:08
time. For for others, they might need to get up an hour early and
27:13
that's that's fine. It's it's whatever works for you,
27:16
right? So so there's breakfast that that's the very first learning opportunity.
27:21
Then after breakfast typically there's a set of classes.
27:27
The classes are are college and entrepreneurship tracks have mostly separate
27:35
classes geared toward those, the specific content for those areas.
27:40
Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
27:41
Dr. Alan Chase: And and again, what I want to highlight here is that most of our classes are actually
27:45
taught by the mentors.
27:48
We we have a couple of classes where we might bring in special guests.
27:53
But by far our again our goal is we want successful blind adults.
28:00
You know, like you for example, to be highlighted.
28:04
We we want our students to see, hey, this person,
28:07
look what they've done. Look what they've accomplished. This look,
28:10
I know I have, I have someone I can network with,
28:13
I can I can get feedback on my what my goals and aspirations are.
28:21
Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
28:22
Dr. Alan Chase: So then we have lunch and then we typically have some more classes.
28:27
Again, same general format.
28:30
And then and then at the end of the day, one thing that I think is,
28:33
is really important is we have a daily checkout and that's it's an important piece
28:39
for students to reflect on.
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Well, what did I learn today and maybe what what do I want to learn more about?
28:47
What questions do I have?
28:51
Sometimes there are things that students didn't understand and they need clarifying
28:56
questions. Other times there are things that they experienced during the day and they
29:04
share a positive moment.
29:07
You know, we they might say, you know, I was very unfamiliar with this
29:13
environment. And now I'm very familiar with it.
29:16
And I'm more confident with traveling from point A to point B or something like that.
29:22
So it's a it's a good time to kind of wrap up the day,
29:25
be a little positive. And then I think the, the,
29:30
the best part of the day that that most people enjoy is the evening time.
29:34
The evening time is very unstructured.
29:37
So it's it's sort of the exact opposite of during the day and during the evening time.
29:42
Students generally have they can they can hang out in,
29:45
in the dormitories. So there's there's some social time there.
29:49
Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
29:50
Dr. Alan Chase: There's an on campus game room.
29:51
So they could they could go play games.
29:54
Donna J. Jodhan: Oh, nice.
29:55
Dr. Alan Chase: Yes. There's also a gym on campus, so they could go to the gym,
29:59
and they could they could play goalball, maybe basketball,
30:04
Ball things like that.
30:07
And we do also with, with some guidelines, we do allow groups to also go off campus to,
30:15
you know, might be to the mall or sometimes, I mean,
30:20
I'm sure you can, can understand that eating food from the school cafeteria,
30:27
for some, it may not be the most desirable food.
30:33
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, I agree.
30:35
Dr. Alan Chase: It also may not be the, the largest portions that that they want.
30:40
Donna J. Jodhan: Yes.
30:41
Dr. Alan Chase: And so we do have some who, you know, they, they want to go to a,
30:44
you know, a local restaurant and get more food and,
30:47
and that's, that's totally fine.
30:50
Like I said, we, we have guidelines and parameters so that they do that safely.
30:56
But that's part of the learning experience. Part of the learning experience is managing
31:01
money. How am I going to get from point A to point B?
31:06
How am I going to interact with people at the restaurant?
31:08
How do I advocate for myself at the restaurant or,
31:11
you know, wherever I'm going, the mall or wherever?
31:15
So on.
31:16
Donna J. Jodhan: And do they have to write a report at the end of the camp saying,
31:20
you know what they've learned how they've learned it.
31:25
What? You know, what are they happy with?
31:28
What are they not happy with?
31:29
Do you have, like, mini surveys or how do you get your feedback from them?
31:35
Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, that's a great question. So we we encourage the students to keep a journal.
31:41
Donna J. Jodhan: And.
31:41
Dr. Alan Chase: And the journal is, you know, they they're welcome to share that with us.
31:44
They, they they're not required to but we we're we're very big on reflection
31:49
self-reflection and kind of that the growth mindset.
31:54
So we want we want them to see how, how just in a short period of time,
31:57
how in one week, how how much you can grow if you just push yourself a little bit,
32:03
get outside your your comfort zone.
32:07
But at the end of the week, in addition to that, we do have some formal
32:10
surveys that we send out.
32:12
So those surveys, those surveys include questions with like with a Likert scale where
32:21
they have to rate their experience on a scale of,
32:25
of 1 to 5. But then we also have comment boxes where they can they can give feedback
32:32
specifically around things that they might change for the next year,
32:37
things they might keep the same.
32:39
And the one thing that I'm very I'm also very proud about,
32:43
this is and it's really for me, it's about building trust because I want I
32:48
want them to know that their voice is heard.
32:51
And there's some things that I that I do have control over.
32:55
Some things I don't. But if if they gave feedback and it's something that we can do,
33:01
something that's feasible, something that is in the best interest of the
33:05
program, then we do implement those changes.
33:09
Donna J. Jodhan: And do you have repeat students like coming back year after year,
33:14
or is there a limit on how many how many years they can return?
33:20
Dr. Alan Chase: There's not a a firm limit.
33:24
However, we do have some who return year after year.
33:28
Some return because they maybe one year they go through the college track and then the
33:33
next year they go through our entrepreneurship track.
33:36
Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
33:37
Dr. Alan Chase: Or it might be for social reasons.
33:39
You know, they they're coming to reconnect with certain individuals or maybe wherever
33:46
they are located. Maybe they're a little isolated.
33:49
And so this is an opportunity for them to just be around peers.
33:54
But then as I mentioned earlier, and I think this is a great a great thing to
33:58
highlight is we do have a lot of people who come back,
34:01
but they come back in a different capacity.
34:04
They they might not come back as a student, but maybe they come back as a volunteer or a
34:10
mentor or later on, a coordinator.
34:15
Donna J. Jodhan: No. When they go out or they go off campus, are they supervised?
34:21
I guess they are.
34:24
Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yes. Absolutely. That's those are those guidelines that I,
34:27
I mentioned earlier.
34:28
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. Now tell me about your peer led power.
34:34
I like that term. Tell me a bit more about it.
34:39
Dr. Alan Chase: Well that's that's one of our core.
34:41
Our core values. Everything.
34:44
Everything is peer led and peer led, meaning you know,
34:50
by individuals with visual impairments.
34:53
So we 100%. And when I say 100%, I literally mean 100% of our mentors,
35:03
of our leadership everybody in that, including myself,
35:07
has a visual impairment.
35:10
We have individuals who have we have varying types of visual impairments.
35:16
We have some individuals who have residual vision where it's it's very functional.
35:22
We have others where their vision is such that they use a cane.
35:27
They have a guide dog.
35:29
Some are Braille users, some rely more on assistive technology,
35:33
some rely more on magnification.
35:36
And that diversity really makes, again, makes us unique.
35:40
Because then when our students come, we can relate to a variety of students who
35:47
have a variety of different eye conditions and different levels of visual functioning.
35:53
Positioning. So. Everything that we do from the ground up the the planning of classes,
36:02
the designing of the classes, what the materials are going to be like.
36:07
Everything is done in house by those individuals.
36:12
And that, I think, is the the most powerful piece.
36:16
Donna J. Jodhan: So what I'm hearing here is that you are fully capable of accommodating all levels of
36:25
vision loss from those with the highest of functions to those with no,
36:29
no no vision. Right?
36:33
Dr. Alan Chase: Yes, definitely.
36:34
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. Tell me. About. How you go about designing your syllabus.
36:39
Is that is this based on the type of students that you're going to have?
36:44
Like, does the level of vision play play a part in how you design your syllabus.
36:53
I'm interested to know how you go about designing your syllabus.
36:58
Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, that's that's a really good question.
37:01
So and I have to put my I have to put my teacher hat on here just for a second.
37:06
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. Yeah.
37:07
Dr. Alan Chase: And I'll say, you know, so one of the things that makes again,
37:11
that makes us unique is that our, our mentors,
37:15
our leaders, they all come from different backgrounds.
37:19
So we we have some obviously my background is in education.
37:25
I also have some other, you know, areas of, of expertise.
37:28
We have some of our, some of our leadership.
37:34
They've gone to graduate school. They have master's degrees.
37:37
We we have some who who just have bachelor's degrees.
37:43
We have some who have went to college and, you know,
37:47
they they didn't really complete it, but they,
37:49
you know, because of various reasons and maybe they're focusing more on,
37:54
on work. So I say that to say to say this one thing that's so the the vision part.
38:02
Someone's vision for us is not necessarily the,
38:07
the deciding factor in how to design the syllabus,
38:11
but it's maybe what other disabilities might they have because we know that the,
38:20
the type of the way a person with a visual impairment without any other disabilities,
38:27
that the way that they access materials.
38:30
Donna J. Jodhan: Is different.
38:31
Dr. Alan Chase: Is different. Some use some use braille, some use assistive technology,
38:36
some use large print. But the content is going to be the same.
38:42
It's it's how they access the content that is going to be different.
38:47
On the other hand, if they have other disabilities,
38:51
maybe they have. Maybe they're on the autism spectrum,
38:53
maybe they have an intellectual disability, maybe a learning disability.
38:57
When those things come into play, then that's where we actually have to look at
39:02
the content. And we have to say, well, how can we make sure that this is
39:06
accessible to a person who has a reading disability or a person who has an
39:11
intellectual disability?
39:13
We have to we may have to break the content down into smaller chunks.
39:19
We may have to reword it so that it's not technical jargon,
39:24
but it's in plain, plain language that anyone can understand.
39:32
So things like that. And so we, we look at every year.
39:37
Well, first I should say we do look at the needs of everybody every year.
39:41
And we, we try to accommodate those needs.
39:43
But we also again we try to model.
39:46
And so we try to use the principles of universal design.
39:49
So we try to make sure that everything is accessible to everyone from the beginning.
39:55
We also try to make sure that everything is accessible from the beginning,
39:59
whether it be accessibility for screen readers,
40:03
accessibility for color, color, contrast, readability.
40:08
So we try really hard to do to approach the syllabus,
40:14
the content from all those perspectives.
40:17
Donna J. Jodhan: So you have a wide spectrum, wide spectrum in your syllabus like teaching
40:23
from orientation to social things and all that stuff.
40:29
The question for you is, do you find that students are requesting
40:34
Braille documents? More or less.
40:41
Dr. Alan Chase: I think I think it varies widely.
40:45
But what I would say, generally speaking we're getting less
40:50
requests for Braille and more requests for electronic format.
40:54
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. And.
40:57
Dr. Alan Chase: You know, that does that does have that does concern me just slightly,
41:04
because we know that there's a difference between,
41:08
you know, reading comprehension, reading and listening and listening
41:11
comprehension. And so, you know, we encourage folks to to not just
41:17
rely solely on the assistive technology, but pair it together.
41:22
You know, it's okay to use your assistive technology and listen to it while at the same
41:28
time having Braille under your fingertips.
41:32
Donna J. Jodhan: Someone who had a lot of functional vision myself and lost it,
41:37
you know, quite a few years ago, I think a unique combination of braille and
41:42
electronic documentation really needs to be there.
41:46
You know, some people argue that Braille is outdated.
41:50
I don't agree, but, you know, I'm glad to hear you telling us this.
41:54
You know just back to the orientation bit of it,
42:01
I guess. Am I correct in saying that when it comes to the orientation,
42:07
you would need to tailor it to the needs of the specific level of vision?
42:14
Yeah.
42:14
Dr. Alan Chase: So orientation and mobility is going to be one of those one of those niche areas that I
42:20
mentioned earlier where we, we would bring somebody in to work
42:25
specifically with individuals on their their orientation and mobility skills.
42:32
That's, that's one of those areas, you know, we we do rely very heavily on
42:36
volunteers. We, we, you know, we need volunteers.
42:40
You know, we don't have any no employees, no staff whatsoever.
42:44
Everyone does it does it on a volunteer basis,
42:47
including myself.
42:49
Donna J. Jodhan: Right, right.
42:50
Dr. Alan Chase: And the so we, you know, we're always looking for orientation and
42:54
mobility specialists who because that's a very specialized area where there is
43:00
licensure certification.
43:02
And, and we want folks to receive the, the proper training.
43:08
Braille would be another similar area.
43:13
You know, when we do get requests for Braille we don't necessarily have the capability
43:18
in-house to produce large amounts of braille.
43:21
So, you know, we we try to reach out to individuals who might be willing to support
43:26
us in that with transcribing and then embossing Braille.
43:35
Donna J. Jodhan: Have you heard of Braille doodle?
43:38
Dr. Alan Chase: I have not.
43:40
Donna J. Jodhan: Oh, okay. I think I had mentioned it to Ashley before,
43:45
and she promised that she would try and slip it in as a topic for you and her to discuss.
43:51
And a Braille doodle really is very briefly, it was developed by Daniel Leubner.
43:59
I think his name is. And what it is it it teaches have the ability to use the Braille
44:05
doodle to teach Braille, also to teach math also as a tactile a way of
44:14
doing tactile graphics or tactile creations, which is what I am using it for.
44:21
And it's a way to sort of make sure that Braille doesn't die.
44:26
I think it's a great invention.
44:28
And we could certainly discuss this, you know,
44:31
off record, if you're interested to learn more.
44:35
You know, we could certainly do that.
44:38
Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yes. Absolutely. You know, I tell this to individuals all the time.
44:43
People. People call me up all the time and they say, well, can you tell me about this or
44:47
help me with this? And, and and I know a lot about a lot,
44:53
but I'm constantly learning myself every day.
44:59
And so I never pass up an opportunity to learn something new.
45:02
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. So we can talk about that after the camp is over.
45:05
Yeah. Thank you. Sure.
45:07
Now, tell me about your guest faculty.
45:11
How do you go about attracting guests to your you know,
45:15
to your camp. And where are they from?
45:20
Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, well, kind of like we mentioned at the very beginning the by far our our guests are
45:28
by word of mouth, by by personal by personal connection.
45:32
So you know, we we were lucky enough to meet you through Janet and a lot of our other
45:41
special guests that don't have a disability or a visual impairment that that may have a
45:47
specialized skill. A lot of a lot of them.
45:51
We know them because of our personal interactions.
45:54
Maybe we went to school with them, or they worked at a school we went to or you
46:00
know, whatever the case might be. So we we use a lot of those personal connections to
46:05
try to you know, bring people in, engage them.
46:09
And what I find overall is that, you know, when you have those personal
46:13
connections, you tend to have people who are,
46:16
you know, just a little more invested.
46:18
And, and they tend to stick around just a little bit longer.
46:21
Donna J. Jodhan: Right? That's that's a good way of putting it.
46:25
You know, as long as the guest faculty is really engaged and,
46:31
and a lot of it is by word of mouth, as you said,
46:33
right? And I guess a lot of these, these faculty folks that you attract again,
46:41
they are across the from across the country.
46:46
Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yes. Definitely across the country.
46:49
You know, primarily from North Carolina and this region.
46:54
But we definitely have we've had folks from Massachusetts,
46:59
Florida Colorado all over who have have supported us over the last 18 years.
47:09
Donna J. Jodhan: Now, tell me about your real world plans.
47:12
What are the what is this all about?
47:17
Dr. Alan Chase: Well, I think I think the real plan is that at some point I would,
47:23
I would envision a, a global outreach, a global opportunity for us to to
47:33
take what we do and and really what I would, I would love for us to do because I think
47:40
we've come a long, long way when it comes to accessibility,
47:46
inclusion and meaningful participation in higher education and
47:57
a little bit in the employment side.
47:59
And so I say that to say this, we we know that individuals with visual
48:08
impairments, they're going to college pretty much at the same rate as people without
48:13
disabilities. They're graduating from college at the same rate,
48:17
if not better than people without disabilities.
48:21
So I think the the higher education side of what we are doing,
48:30
We? We have as a society, we've accomplished primarily that goal.
48:36
The the focus now is on employment is we got to get people into the workforce,
48:41
whether it be working for a company, working for themselves,
48:45
whatever the case might be.
48:47
And so what I would love to see is, is the concept of the retreat.
48:54
The things that we teach and the things that we do replicated in,
48:59
in other places in the private sector and also in the higher education sector.
49:06
And what I mean by that is we need to get in front of the people who can make these hiring
49:14
decisions. So, for example, I think it would be great if schools of
49:22
business at various colleges and universities incorporated some of the the curriculum and
49:29
some of the content that we've created to educate their,
49:33
their future business students of here are individuals with visual impairments.
49:39
Here are the skills they have.
49:41
Here's how they can contribute to your business.
49:46
On. On the same the same thing for for private businesses.
49:53
I would I would love for us to be included as part of the onboarding process or part of
50:00
training and development for businesses, you know,
50:03
large corporations, small businesses where we can,
50:07
again, educate the employer of these are individuals with visual impairments.
50:15
These are accommodations that you can provide that are,
50:19
you know, have minimal to no cost to you, but yet you get the benefit of the skills
50:25
that this person brings to the table.
50:28
And I think that's where we're going to make more of an impact,
50:32
is going to those individuals going to those places and getting in front of those
50:38
individuals.
50:40
Donna J. Jodhan: Do you think or what? What are your thoughts on convincing or encouraging your your
50:48
participants to be strong entrepreneurs, confident,
50:53
independent? So I mean that that's part of my transitioning to a new World program.
50:58
I honestly think that entrepreneurship is more than just a viable alternative for
51:04
employment. What are your thoughts on that?
51:07
Do you think it's more difficult to convince participants?
51:14
Dr. Alan Chase: I would say that from my viewpoint, becoming an entrepreneur is probably the most
51:22
the most viable pathway for an individual with a visual impairment to obtain,
51:28
you know, a sustainable career of their own.
51:33
Now, I think where the where the challenge comes in is again,
51:40
breaking that cycle that we talked about earlier of confidence,
51:45
the cycle of I need to be a strong self-advocate,
51:50
but I'm, I'm used to person A or person B doing everything for me.
51:58
And so that's why, you know, I think my one of my personal career goals in
52:06
the future is and this experience has really shaped this for me is I would I would love to
52:15
be on the faculty at one of these colleges or universities maybe in a school of business
52:23
and and you be that voice to to say, you know,
52:27
to in an intro to business class or in a human resources class or an intro to business
52:34
law class. This is, this is a segment of the population that you're missing,
52:41
you're missing out on.
52:43
And this is how they can they can add value to your business.
52:48
So I think that that's I think entrepreneurship is the,
52:53
the best solution. It's the path of least resistance is the path that that our students
52:58
have the most control over because it's it's their own,
53:02
their own destiny.
53:04
Donna J. Jodhan: I think it's very important for us to convince our,
53:07
our participants, our students that, you know,
53:10
look at entrepreneurship as a very important alternative.
53:13
But in order to get there, they have to be independent,
53:17
confident, and to believe in themselves.
53:20
Again, this is what my TNA program teaches, and I really like the idea of,
53:26
you know, what you're seeing and what you're telling us.
53:30
So I'm all for entrepreneurship.
53:32
I've been one for many, many years, you know?
53:35
So don't look a gift horse in the mouth, as they would say.
53:43
What are your thoughts going forward?
53:45
What? What do you see?
53:47
The I retreat camp, you know, going further on,
53:52
what are what are steps that you want to see?
53:56
Besides just, you know, going beyond the borders.
54:00
You mentioned going international, which I really like that idea.
54:03
Hey, I'm from Canada, so.
54:06
Well, tell me, what are your plans for the next maybe 3 to 5 years?
54:13
Dr. Alan Chase: Well, I think one thing that we've talked about maybe over the last couple of years is
54:20
we've we've been trying to figure out where the gaps are and where we fit in to those
54:28
gaps. One of those gaps, I think, and this kind of goes back to that
54:33
confidence piece, is we can teach you how to how to run a business,
54:38
how to start your business.
54:39
We can teach you, you know, you might have a great idea and we can teach
54:43
you how to develop a business plan, the execution of that business plan,
54:48
the kind of some of the back office aspects, operations of the business,
54:57
the, the accounting, the legal the, the marketing,
55:02
that kind of stuff. That's where I think a lot of individuals are going to,
55:07
to struggle the most. Again, because there for a lot of people with visual
55:12
impairments, their networks are relatively small,
55:16
probably mostly connected to other people who have disabilities.
55:21
And so that's, you know, one thing I say this all the time is,
55:25
you know, we cannot as a, as a as a group, as a population,
55:32
we cannot operate on an island.
55:34
We have to connect ourselves with the the rest of the world and,
55:39
and other people in, in our communities and our society.
55:43
So one thing that, that I would envision that I would like to try to do at some point is to
55:50
have a, a, a structure in place where we can support some of those efforts.
55:56
So for example we may have a student who takes your entrepreneurship class.
56:05
They develop an idea. It's a great idea.
56:07
They develop a business plan.
56:08
It's a great, fantastic business plan.
56:11
And then we have partnerships or we have individuals who then can support them with
56:20
those other pieces, those back office pieces that they might struggle with to actually
56:25
make their idea go from just paper to a reality.
56:31
And so, of course, to do that, that would require a big expansion on,
56:35
on our part. You know, we would we would definitely need more
56:38
funding. We would probably need some full time staff.
56:42
You know, we would probably have to have some some sort of a maybe a revenue sharing
56:48
agreement to, to fund some of those, those pieces.
56:52
But I think it's doable.
56:54
And I think that it's a win win for everybody.
56:58
Donna J. Jodhan: I think those plans sound really, really great,
57:01
but it's a matter of getting like the the support you would need other people to help
57:07
you out and stuff like that.
57:09
Right? Because it doesn't happen overnight.
57:11
It, it it happens when people are convinced that this is a worthwhile effort.
57:17
Right.
57:18
Dr. Alan Chase: Absolutely.
57:20
Donna J. Jodhan: I mean, like, I hope and pray that your camp does go international.
57:25
I think there is a need for such types of camps in other countries,
57:30
especially, you know, in countries that are developing countries.
57:35
And and I hope and pray that that you can do that,
57:38
you know.
57:39
Dr. Alan Chase: Thank you.
57:42
Donna J. Jodhan: So we don't have much time left.
57:45
What are your final thoughts?
57:47
Doctor Helen, any final thoughts for us?
57:52
Dr. Alan Chase: Yeah, I think just my final thoughts for for you and for anyone who's listening.
57:58
And and just as I reflect, even on myself, I think that we can't.
58:04
We can't do this alone.
58:05
It takes. It takes a village.
58:07
And so, you know, I'm.
58:09
I just want to say I'm I'm very appreciative,
58:11
you know, for your support. I'm appreciative for everyone who has supported us in the
58:16
past. And I would encourage anyone who wants to be involved,
58:19
you know, please, you know, reach out to us,
58:21
be involved. You know, there there's always a skill set that that
58:29
we're looking for, whether it be helping with social media or web design.
58:35
You know, those things can be done remotely or if you actually want to come and attend in
58:40
person to our camp, there's there's always things to do with registration and supporting
58:48
the classroom setups and, and so on.
58:51
So and we're one we're really one big happy family.
58:55
That's I think one thing that one takeaway I want everyone to,
59:00
to, to know is that the reason people come back,
59:03
I think is because of that, that family, that family atmosphere,
59:07
you know, where you feel supported.
59:10
You feel like you're in good company and you feel like you're you're in a safe place.
59:16
Donna J. Jodhan: So to end our very lovely podcast, how do people contact you?
59:23
Can you give us. Email address or website address?
59:28
Dr. Alan Chase: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So if you want to learn more about us,
59:32
you can go to our website.
59:34
It is e e retreat r e t e t.org.
59:42
So that's I retreat.org is our website and we have applications on there.
59:48
We have pictures and videos from the last 17 years of our,
59:54
of our camps. And my contact information is there and our schedule for this summer.
1:00:01
So you know, again we, we look forward to to anything that anyone
1:00:07
can contribute to support us.
1:00:10
Donna J. Jodhan: Doctor Alan, it was a pleasure.
1:00:12
Pure pleasure interviewing you.
1:00:14
And I am looking. I am looking forward to attending your camp at the end of July and to
1:00:22
be with your students.
1:00:24
We've developed a special word game for them as well.
1:00:26
I hope they like it. But I want to thank you for coming on to our interview.
1:00:31
I'd like to thank you for including me in your account.
1:00:35
And anytime you'd like to return to tell us, you know,
1:00:38
how did this camp go? Just just reach out to me and let me know.
1:00:43
Dr. Alan Chase: All right. Will do. Thank you so much.
1:00:45
Donna J. Jodhan: Thank you, Doctor Alan, and we'll talk to you later.
1:00:48
Dr. Alan Chase: All right.
1:00:48
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. Take care now.
1:00:50
Dr. Alan Chase: Bye bye.
1:00:51
Donna J. Jodhan: Bye bye.
1:00:54
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna at gmail.com.
1:01:00
Until next time.