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Demanding an end to human organ harvesting · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:11
  It's the tip of the spear in the epic battle to defend the United States of America.
• 0:19
  The National Security Hour exposes the wolves in sheep's clothing and a nefarious plots to undermine and destroy US national security.
• 0:31
  Welcome to National Security Hour on the America Out Loud Network with Jan Yakellick, who is a great author, written a fantastic book that is an eye-opener to the evil of organ harvesting.
• 0:44
  In fact, the book is called Kill to Order, China's organ harvesting industry and the true nature of America's biggest adversary, Yan who leaders, Yan, let's talk this book.
• 0:59
  You've been, and this has been your passion for 20 years.
• 1:02
  How did you find out about it?
• 1:04
  How did you how did this whole thing become aware to you?
• 1:09
  Well, Blanquita, thank you so much for having me on.
• 1:12
  First of all, um, and thank you for your amazing heart and passion for this issue, which is one that's been unbelievably difficult to get across to um, you know, audiences or frankly anybody, you know, I was in the China human rights space back in the early 2000s, and I had heard rumors that there might be some kind of murder for organs of prisoners being killed for organs, but I didn't really put much uh stock in it because it was isolated, there wasn't really any evidence, and frankly, my mind didn't want to know about it, right?
• 1:46
  This is sort of what happens with these kinds of crimes against humanity.
• 1:49
  And in about 2006, uh, I got hit over the head with the evidence, I think would be the best way to describe it.
• 1:58
  Um what does that mean?
• 1:59
  What does that mean?
• 2:00
  When you say hit over the head, did you see it witness it first?
• 2:03
  And did you meet the survivors?
• 2:05
  What happened?
• 2:07
  No, so what happened?
• 2:08
  I mean, near simultaneously, there were two uh whistleblowers that came forward.
• 2:14
  Okay, one was a woman who we call Annie, that's a pseudonym.
• 2:18
  She's still in hiding.
• 2:20
  Um, she had a husband who was having nightmares, kind of ruining their relationship, and she threatened to leave him when he confessed to her.
• 2:28
  This is of course all happening in China, uh, that he had removed uh uh 2,000 corneas from living people.
• 2:37
  Oh yeah.
• 2:39
  So that was one, and there were a whole bunch of other that a whole bunch of other uh allegations which she described, which researchers deem credible, and so that in combination with a second whistleblower, completely independently.
• 2:54
  This was a uh transplant surgeon who was um former head of the trend Israeli transplant association, and um he had a patient who basically told him, you know, I'll never forget talking to him on the phone about this.
• 3:10
  Um, but he told him that he was tired of waiting and that he would go to China and get a new heart in two weeks scheduled, okay.
• 3:22
  And that's really kind of an impossibility um in uh any ethical transplant situation because well exact well, I mean, I can I can I can lay it out for people in that you know, in an ethical transplant situation, you need to have a catastrophic someone has to have a catastrophic accident, typically a car or motorcycle accident, and then they get um uh they come in, right?
• 3:49
  And they also have to have uh similarity in blood and tissue type.
• 3:55
  And the reason for that is that our bodies reject foreign things that are that not ours.
• 4:00
  So we have to kind of approximate them, and we do that by matching blood and tissue.
• 4:04
  And the combination of all that makes it extremely rare that we actually get to find someone who has that catastrophic accident who actually matches us, which is why we wait months or years to get a transplant.
• 4:15
  Whereas here, number one, this person was you know, scheduling a heart transplant means that catastrophic accident was being arranged by the system, right?
• 4:24
  In other words, there was someone being killed for an organ.
• 4:27
  And two, there was this mystery of how was it that in two weeks you can actually get an organ, right?
• 4:34
  And this is something that researchers started working on.
• 4:36
  But that information alone was enough to say there's something horrible happening, there's some kind of forced organ harvesting system.
• 4:44
  We didn't know much yet.
• 4:46
  We're just beginning to get the dimensions of it.
• 4:48
  Um, and that's when researchers jumped in and you know, figured out how it actually worked.
• 4:54
  Do you think, Jan, that a lot of the people that were willing to go to China like that individual, or under the idea that, oh well, that guy who's gonna whose heart I'm going to take, is someone who's going to be on death row anyway.
• 5:13
  So they kind of in their mind uh absolve themselves from the guilt because they say, well, he was going to be executed because he was a killer anyway, without really understanding that some innocent person was being targeted and matched for profit.
• 5:32
  Well, in fact, I opened my book with an example.
• 5:35
  She's a composite character, May, who uh basically needs a heart badly, or pardon me, she needs a kidney badly, okay.
• 5:45
  And she she, you know, loves her family, she wants to be there for her family, very altruistic good woman.
• 5:51
  Um, but she doesn't have a lot of time because she's on dialysis, she's been done dialysis for a while, and the survivorship goes down really fast when you're on dialysis for a while.
• 6:01
  So she hears about this China option and doesn't think about it too much and gets it done.
• 6:06
  So I think it's actually um a whole range of types of people.
• 6:09
  I think the Chinese Communist Party preys on people's desperation and their, you know, and they're just kind of our then a second piece is our innate lack of wanting to know what's really happening in these types of situations.
• 6:23
  There's a lot of that.
• 6:24
  Um a third is that you know, some people will would be fine with a death row prisoner being killed for their organ.
• 6:33
  You know, I'm not a fan of that because that obviously there's no consent being given in that situation if someone is uh is a prisoner.
• 6:40
  Um, you know, never even a death row prisoner.
• 6:44
  But yeah, well, I'll explain what what actually happened, like how the system actually works.
• 6:49
  Um they in uh 1999, uh, the Chinese communist party basically turned against a group called Falun Gong practitioners, and this was uh it was quite a large group, 70 to 100 million people practicing truthfulness, compassion, tolerance, these kinds of things, very bottom-up, very grassroots, unlike the Chinese Communist Party, which is very um I call it obscenely hierarchical.
• 7:18
  Um, but uh they were it was this a grassroots system.
• 7:22
  So, in the in this sense, right?
• 7:24
  No hierarchy, uh, no collection of money, uh, no worship, these kinds of things, but still a very strong connection to God or the divine.
• 7:32
  And so and for people that don't understand, they can even consider it very similar to Buddhism.
• 7:39
  Yeah, I think I think you could say it comes from the similar tradition as I understand it, yeah.
• 7:44
  But just like something that had become extremely popular and bigger than the communist party itself, and the original dictator decided to crush it, to eradicate it to use his words.
• 7:55
  And so this unique sort of what what I call a kill to order uh uh industry, which is why, you know, my I'll explain in a moment why my book is titled Kill to Order.
• 8:06
  But um, it could only happen in this sort of circumstance where you have a state actor, someone who controls both the information systems or propaganda organs or you know, media of a country of an entire system, and also the ability, state security, the ability to incarcerate a huge group of people.
• 8:25
  So communist China has had this long history of demonizing or dehumanizing certain groups.
• 8:30
  They called them black classes.
• 8:32
  So very early on, they wanted to, you know, basically take the land of the landowners, nationalize it, and you know, put it under the auspices of the communist party.
• 8:40
  So they black classed the landowners, and that that made it acceptable to harm these people, to take their land, and also even to kill them in some cases if they resisted the good what was for the greater good of the party, so to speak.
• 8:53
  And there were there have been various groups like this, right?
• 8:56
  But and it kind of activates a quirk in our psychology where we when we start believing that people are either worse than us or dangerous or somehow pariahs beyond the pale, we can do things to them or accept but really bad things being done to them.
• 9:11
  And you kind of need to have that element to get killed to order.
• 9:15
  And similarly, so this is actually what happened.
• 9:17
  Um, the Chinese Communist Party basically pushed their massive propaganda apparatus out against the Falun Gong, um, basically convinced or it went in an effort to convince society that they were somehow bad people or deserved it.
• 9:31
  And then, but it turned out that the Falan Gong were unusually resilient to this re-education or brainwashing that they that was being done to them.
• 9:39
  And so they ended up incarcerating a massive number of people, maybe a million, maybe two.
• 9:45
  We don't know exactly.
• 9:46
  But what year?
• 9:48
  Sorry to interrupt you.
• 9:49
  We're talking about 1999 here.
• 9:51
  We're talking about 1999 here.
• 9:52
  Close to the TNM in the square, period.
• 9:55
  That's about 10 years after.
• 9:57
  Yeah.
• 9:57
  Exactly.
• 9:58
  So yeah, the students were the black.
• 10:00
  Black class before the Falon Gong, right?
• 10:01
  Right.
• 10:02
  Back in 89.
• 10:04
  Um, and so when this is this is what sets the stage for kill to order, because now you ask, well, how do you get this two-week wait time?
• 10:12
  Well, so what they did was they blood typed and tissue type a massive group of people within this prison and labor camp system, right?
• 10:21
  And so they actually created a database of all their vitals.
• 10:26
  And that's when someone would come and say, pay 100 or 200,000.
• 10:30
  Um, that their so-called donor was an incarcerated prisoner of conscience who already had been pre-matched because they're in a database, and then that person could be shipped and killed to order.
• 10:41
  And that's why my book is called Killed to Order.
• 10:44
  You know, I I first saw the fallen dafflaw or fallen gong.
• 10:49
  They're called both when I uh was governor overseeing radio free Asia and Voice of America in Hong Kong.
• 10:58
  And they were in a park, and they were doing the exercises that they do, very peaceful.
• 11:05
  And I was fascinated.
• 11:06
  I thought it was so intriguing and kind of moving because you could feel that spiritual kind of goodness that they generated.
• 11:17
  But people would say to me, Oh no, you can't get close to those people.
• 11:22
  They're not good people, they're dangerous people, they're a political movement.
• 11:27
  And I wonder if in what you're saying, a lot of this trying to make them into a black class was also coupled with a sense of fear that they would be too closely aligned, and that they could be put in a class with those individuals, even if they didn't necessarily believe the same way.
• 11:50
  Your thoughts.
• 11:52
  Well, so in fact, you know, that's an interesting point, Blanquita, because this is actually the purpose of creating these black classes and communism.
• 12:00
  And so only about a third of my book is about the actual forced organ harvesting industry.
• 12:05
  The the two the second two-thirds are the true nature of America's biggest adversary.
• 12:10
  And sort of it's a bit how about insight into the mind of the communist party and how this forced organ harvesting is a feature.
• 12:17
  It's like what you would expect to get in how we're not some unusual aberration or something like that.
• 12:23
  And so this this use of black classes, it has multiple purposes.
• 12:27
  It's one purpose is to basically, you know, get rid of a group of people for some purpose.
• 12:33
  Like, for example, these landowners, it was because they wanted to nationalize the land and have everyone feel good about it happening.
• 12:40
  So they black class them.
• 12:41
  Um, when it came to the students, that was something where you know, democracy, they viewed it as a you know one of the massive threats to them because in communist societies, and I explain why this is the survival and supremacy of the communist party is the top top priority, right?
• 12:57
  So the democratic movements are a threat to that.
• 13:00
  So um, so they went, you know, black class the students in '89.
• 13:04
  But the other purpose of this black classing is also to show the rest of society what happens if you don't play along with the CCP.
• 13:14
  Oh, absolutely.
• 13:15
  Right.
• 13:15
  So that kind of it we have it actually activates and kind of internal um defense mechanism, if you will, and in in us, right?
• 13:23
  And you look at the people that have been black classed, and you don't want to be a part of them.
• 13:27
  And like, no, you're afraid to be afraid to be a part of them.
• 13:30
  In fact, uh, I had uh a luncheon with a young religious leader in in Beijing, a guy who was being targeted by the CCP.
• 13:39
  And he had a young wife, and I and we met in a restaurant, but right across from the table, there were seven guys that had followed them there.
• 13:48
  And I thought at that point to what you're saying, where do they get the courage?
• 13:53
  And I asked them, I said, why do you stay here?
• 13:57
  Why don't you and your wife leave?
• 13:59
  He said, Because I can't abandon our people.
• 14:03
  And there has to be enormous pressure to behave, to follow the law, to follow the rules.
• 14:11
  Yeah, and and I mean, and this, you know, there's a famous uh uh piece that Black Club Havill once wrote called The Power of the Powerless.
• 14:21
  And in the power of the powerless, which I'm sure you're familiar with, the power of the powerless, he talks about this green grocer example.
• 14:28
  And the green grocer puts this sign in his window, right?
• 14:31
  Like his little shop with fruits and vegetables.
• 14:34
  And uh he he it says workers of the world unite.
• 14:38
  Okay.
• 14:39
  Right.
• 14:41
  Um, why does he do that?
• 14:43
  Well, he doesn't really care about workers, probably, and he doesn't think of very much about uniting anything.
• 14:48
  He just wants to be able to sell his vegetables.
• 14:50
  But in a communist society, you know, he signals, he virtue signals to the regime that he's on their side, i.e., leave me alone, right?
• 14:59
  Let me do my I'm kind of with you.
• 15:02
  I'm not an enemy.
• 15:03
  Because the communist regimes are always looking for these sort of class enemies and you know, people to make examples of, because that's what make helps keep everybody else in line through fear.
• 15:15
  So I think what you said is a pretty astute observation.
• 15:18
  But they and they absolutely use that, and they've been using you know the Felon Gong as a black class for a very long time, especially since, and this is the terrible irony of all this, right?
• 15:27
  The Felon Gong were completely apolitical, like i.e., like it's even part of how they how this their system works, in my understanding.
• 15:35
  And uh they they just were when what I mean by that is they were uninterested in power.
• 15:40
  They didn't want to like, for example, take the place of the communist party or anything like that.
• 15:44
  They just wanted to be able to practice, and that, but that was extremely important to them.
• 15:48
  So when the CCP said, no, you're actually evil for doing you know, truthfulness, compassion, forbearance, or by the way, another way to translate it, which I came up on recently when I was doing a lecture at Hillsdale College is it's actually uh to be true, good and endure.
• 16:02
  That's another translation.
• 16:03
  So what they're being is being good, true and true, good and enduring, right?
• 16:08
  And they're told, no, sorry, that's evil, and you're supposed to hate that, and it's you know, all this for a number of years, they they believed that this was some this colossal mistake, like the government had made this big mistake, and they were going to appeal repeatedly to these places uh and saying, hey, listen, stop this.
• 16:25
  You're this is bad.
• 16:26
  Like well, we're gonna take a tiny break on that stop.
• 16:29
  You're hurting good people, right?
• 16:31
  We're gonna take a little break.
• 16:32
  We're gonna hear more about this.
• 16:34
  And I'm fascinated to find out how Jan with his own journey, and he's Polish, his family's uh his family had to leave Poland uh against uh fighting against communism, married to a beautiful wife whose father was uh a survivor of the Holocaust, his great wife, Cindy Druckear, my dear friend.
• 16:55
  We have a lot to share with you, and you must order the book, Kill to Order.
• 17:00
  We'll tell you more when we come back.
• 17:02
  So don't you even think about going away, because the most important information is just around the corner.
• 17:09
  We'll be back.
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• 20:53
  Welcome back to the National Security Hour.
• 20:56
  What a powerful book, pill to order is.
• 20:59
  And of course, I emphasize, because the book's title talks about China's organ harvesting industry and the true nature of America's biggest adversary, which is China.
• 21:10
  I was so blown away by how compelling his writing is.
• 21:16
  Yan Yikellix on describing the horror of this organ harvesting.
• 21:20
  But you're right, Jan.
• 21:21
  You have two-thirds of the book that it really explains the mindset, the how the Chinese communists operate.
• 21:31
  And it really uh I think most people can't comprehend the control they have over the country.
• 21:39
  I witnessed it when I first started working with uh Radio Free uh Asia and uh Voice of America in Hong Kong, and that would have been through 2002 to 2000, almost 2010, but the freedom of Hong Kong diminished, and you know, that was one of the most beautiful cities in the world, and it declined.
• 22:05
  You have discovered this working with uh, you know, the epic times and your work with you know, American thought leaders, etc.
• 22:15
  Uh, but personally, this had to be something that triggered memories of probably what your own parents talked about, freeing Poland.
• 22:26
  You know, um something just struck me as you were speaking, and that's I think you know, initially, when as I was saying when the Felon Gong were trying to petition the government saying, hey guys, you've made this terrible mistake.
• 22:39
  I think they themselves couldn't didn't realize even living in this society entirely, because this is a very kind of good hearted uh, you know, practice.
• 22:48
  People are very kind of optimistic in my experience and positive and just see the best in people, right?
• 22:54
  Um, they didn't grasp that this is actually that it was the communist party that's the problem.
• 22:59
  It took them a number of years to just be like, look, these people just aren't listening.
• 23:04
  They they simply are so dead set on eliminating us, it's crazy.
• 23:07
  So they realized that actually if the problem is it's the communism that's the problem.
• 23:12
  It's it's a feature.
• 23:13
  This all this persecution, all this stuff is a feature of the system, not a colossal mistake.
• 23:18
  And then they started uh, you know, this whole this whole movement started to quit the communist party, which I could describe later.
• 23:24
  But but that's what's that's what's so fascinating about this whole thing.
• 23:27
  It's like they the CCP through persecuting Falun Gong practitioners created now what's arguably the largest or one of the largest civil disobedience movements in the world.
• 23:38
  That's you know, actively as we speak, have millions of people walk going around China talking to their fellow man, basically saying, Hey, um, you know, we're not evil, actually, the problem is the communist party, and let's think about let's think about that together because you know you've lost people in your own family, which is you know, communist China is like the biggest killer of its own people and of any institution in the history of the world, right?
• 24:01
  So there's anyway, there's a lot of evidence, and every family knows that every family has been touched by it.
• 24:06
  So there's and you think about it, Jan, and and you triggered something in my brain, and that is when we think about Nazi Germany, and and people would say, Well, if we'd only know, if we'd only heard, if we only had a way of getting this information, how could all those millions of people have been killed and we didn't know?
• 24:26
  Well, okay, maybe we did know a little bit, but now clearly we do know that this killing is going on.
• 24:34
  And yet even here in the United States, you got a bill that you're gonna pass through the the Congress, it's gonna stop forced organ harvesting.
• 24:44
  We don't deal with communist China, but it's stuck in the Senate.
• 24:48
  And I think how can that be right?
• 24:51
  This is not right versus left.
• 24:54
  This is right versus wrong.
• 24:56
  It's evil, and we can't say, well, we just didn't know.
• 25:01
  Well, you know, some exciting new developments in this vein.
• 25:05
  Um, there is one bill.
• 25:07
  There's actually two bills that have passed the house and and are in the Senate that are um, you know, being looked at, we're kind of early in a Senate session right now.
• 25:16
  One of them called it's been renamed actually.
• 25:20
  Um, it's called the Felon Gong and Victims of Forced Organ Harvesting Protection Act.
• 25:25
  That's S4009 off the top of my head.
• 25:28
  And it's a bill that just got bipartisan support.
• 25:32
  Um, it does a few things, it sanctioned people that are involved.
• 25:35
  It asks for reporting on this issue by the government, and it asks whether this is whether this whole forced organ harvesting qualifies as an atrocity under the Eli Wazell Act.
• 25:47
  And that is that would actually be very valuable to have a legal position taken, right?
• 25:53
  In law that says, which absolutely, of course, it's an atrocity.
• 25:56
  It would be an atrocity under the Ali Wizal Act.
• 25:58
  And so it would be good to have that established because one of the ways that the CCP has avoided responsibility for this was just by you know aggressively attacking the messenger.
• 26:08
  It's an it's an interesting strategy that kind of works because you know, we've got an example, give example of that.
• 26:15
  That's that's that's very compelling.
• 26:18
  Well, it just, I mean, and again, it's not it's it's pretty simple, right?
• 26:21
  Like you, someone comes in at the UN and does a speech of allegations about forced organ harvesting, and the response isn't here's the credible information that shows that we actually have an ethical transplant system.
• 26:34
  By the way, they've never provided that, not a single time over the last 20 years.
• 26:38
  Do they provide credible information as to an ethical transplant system of any sort at all?
• 26:43
  Okay.
• 26:44
  Um, no, they just say, Oh, you're evil, you're this is uh anti-China propaganda, you're hurting the feelings of the Chinese people.
• 26:52
  And a lot of people buy into it.
• 26:54
  Well, they buy into it, but also because it's aggressive, because they're like, you're evil.
• 26:58
  They're like you're what an how how dare you, you evil person, suggest that this horrible thing is happening and sort of puts everyone back on the defensive.
• 27:06
  So instead of saying, okay, can you please, you know, provide some actual evidence that you have an ethical transplantation system, you know, and that once they actually, once they on their own terms, you know, I think it was 2015, they they said, Oh, we've created an organ registry, right?
• 27:23
  And then they provide you these numbers, but then some researchers found really quickly that these numbers were actually a perfect quadratic equation.
• 27:31
  So they they like they fake the data and not even particularly intelligently.
• 27:35
  And I don't know if that was to laugh at people or whether I just don't, I don't understand the logic at all.
• 27:40
  But the point is when you have a kill to order system, when you have, you know, the numbers, by the way, are 60 to 90,000 or 60 to 100,000 transplants per year.
• 27:49
  So this is very large scale, right?
• 27:51
  When you have this thing operating across, you know, 200 odd hospitals now.
• 27:57
  Um, you don't really need to develop, there's no incentive at all in a society that doesn't like to give their body parts up when they you know pass away uh to have to try to develop even an ethical system because you have these, you know, unlimited organs available from these black classes that you've marked.
• 28:15
  Um I was looking at the doctors or societies around the world that are now trying to get a standard going on fighting uh the utilization of these organs that are being harvested from groups like the fallen gong.
• 28:33
  And I'm wondering, and and when you say this, you know, uh are some of these organizations, not the groups that are fighting it, but others are they receiving funding, or are they benefiting?
• 28:46
  Are they just averting their eyes or branches of the military, um not military, but of the media, uh, you know, taking sponsorship or under the cover of uh darkness, accepting money, members of Congress.
• 29:00
  How can this go on without there being more ethical and legal repercussions?
• 29:07
  I think there's been a there's a few reasons, right?
• 29:10
  Like I was, you know, very pleasantly surprised where the when the International Society for Heart and Lung Transplantation, you know, basically said we will not accept any entries from China in our journal because they do forced organ harvesting.
• 29:26
  Right.
• 29:26
  That was that I mean, the I wish every organization did that, right?
• 29:30
  But that that was like the first, I think that did anything of this nature, and that was a few years ago now.
• 29:35
  So that that was great.
• 29:36
  But you're right.
• 29:37
  In most cases, um, they kind of lay quiet or and part of it is is a the CCP.
• 29:43
  I have a whole chapter in the book in kill to order.
• 29:46
  By the way, if you want to get the book, it's at kill too.
• 29:49
  We got it.
• 29:50
  Let's make sure they understand kill the order.com, right?
• 29:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 29:53
  You can you if you're interested, but there's a whole chapter in kill to order where I talk about how the Chinese regime.
• 30:00
  Gets both its own population and you know, other people that it's partnering with or working with complicit in its own behavior.
• 30:09
  Um, they do it in all sorts of ways, but one way is as for example, working with the US.
• 30:14
  This was pretty, this has been a standard for decades, right?
• 30:17
  It kind of works like this.
• 30:18
  They'll say, Well, look, you know, I'm a reformer, right?
• 30:21
  I'm one of the people that wants to change China.
• 30:24
  This is the person who's talking who's bamboozling, they call it internally bamboozling the barbarians or fooling the barbarians, right?
• 30:32
  And so uh uh so they say, Well, I'm a I'm uh I'm a reformer, but then but then there's these you know bad guys that are sort of they want to they want to see like full on communist rule, the hard liners.
• 30:45
  So I want to work with you.
• 30:47
  Let's work together, and you know, we're gonna we're gonna help change China in the right direction.
• 30:52
  But don't raise a fuss because if you raise a fuss, then those hardliners are gonna come and they're gonna take away all of our great progress.
• 31:00
  Look at all the agreements we've signed and whatever, right?
• 31:03
  Except nothing's really changed, but but there's a lot of kind of performative talk about great things that are happening, and sometimes once in a while, some kind of you know, performative report or something like that.
• 31:14
  And then they just keep stringing you along like this, right?
• 31:17
  And so how do you get complicit?
• 31:19
  Well, one, even if you realize you're being strung along, you're gonna look like an idiot, right?
• 31:24
  So you keep going with it, like this is how bureau bureaucracy bureaucracies often think, actually.
• 31:30
  Sometimes you're just very gullible.
• 31:32
  And the other thing is there's uh Upton Sinclair quote about this, right?
• 31:37
  Really kind of brilliant quote.
• 31:38
  And I I can't cite it offhand, but it's like if you're in if if if your paycheck depends on you not noticing something, you you generally don't notice it.
• 31:49
  Something like that, okay.
• 31:50
  So there's this, I mean, they take advantage of it.
• 31:52
  But again, it takes me back to the whole thing of World War II.
• 31:55
  Yeah.
• 31:55
  World War II when people said, Oh, we didn't know it happened.
• 31:58
  They live with it, they may have lived near a camp.
• 32:01
  We weren't aware it was going on.
• 32:03
  We didn't know the gun was loaded.
• 32:04
  We didn't know that the camps were, you know, killing people.
• 32:07
  We didn't have we we just didn't know.
• 32:09
  Don't blame us for good people.
• 32:12
  And and unfortunately, uh this happens whether it's human trafficking, organ harvesting.
• 32:18
  We have rid our eyes to it, but but the point of having you with this great book that you've written on the air is to say you may choose not to accept the brutality, and you may choose not to pretend that you know anything about it, but you do know about it now.
• 32:37
  And and I and we have a couple of minutes left on this segment, but I want to make sure that you absolutely give them the way for the audience to get the book.
• 32:48
  It is a must read.
• 32:50
  Tell them again.
• 32:51
  Oh, yeah.
• 32:52
  And I mean, the other part, right, of this issue.
• 32:55
  If I if it by the okay, it's killed.
• 32:57
  Let me answer the question since you asked me.
• 32:58
  Killed to order.com.
• 33:00
  That's the direct Amazon link.
• 33:01
  You can also go to like Barnes and Noble or your local bookstore or order it from a library.
• 33:07
  All of that helps.
• 33:08
  But so the unbelievable thing is there's such an interest in this right now that it actually has reached the New York Times bestseller list and publishers weekly as well, which is really a stock.
• 33:18
  I mean, it's astonishing for an issue that most people didn't want to hear about 20 years ago.
• 33:23
  Okay.
• 33:23
  So I'm I'm very moved by this.
• 33:26
  And I'm and it's also an issue where awareness changes it.
• 33:29
  So that's why I'm so excited to promote the book, get it out there, get people to read it, get let them get inspired by it.
• 33:35
  I know people are.
• 33:36
  I'm seeing like a some amazing reviews on Amazon and other places.
• 33:41
  It's now an international best seller.
• 33:43
  We get to brag on that now as we have so many people that have been reading the book, and it's been phenomenal.
• 33:50
  Uh, Jan has been out and and talking to numerous groups, but the level of people who are really human rights activists that work in the house and the Senate who have been great supporters, and we have to give them a tip of the hat, like Ambassador Sam Brown back, uh, Chris Smith and the Congress.
• 34:09
  You have many members who are uh standing up and taking this fight to the floor of the house, taking it to the United Nations, they're speaking out when they can, and uh they're they're really behind you 100%, you know.
• 34:26
  And I've been very impressed with that.
• 34:29
  Well, I really think it's a unique time because there are people like Sam Brown back, you know, once a senator, once a governor, once ambassador for international religious freedom, now heading up the IRF summit.
• 34:40
  Um, and Chris Smith, who's still in Congress, still fighting the fight, who knew very clearly since the mid-80s when he came into Congress, longest serving congressman now, but just a hero of a whole lot of movements, like a whole, like whether it's forced organ harvesting or generally human trafficking as well.
• 34:57
  I mean, I recently learned he covers does Lyme disease too.
• 35:00
  I mean, he's really picked up a lot of things that don't have a lot of uh that are very important and and valuable, but for whatever reason, not a lot of people wanted to touch.
• 35:10
  And so he's but he's he hit one of those two bills that's uh made it into the Senate or is kind of needs Senate approval is his.
• 35:19
  It's called the um stop forced organ harvesting act, actually.
• 35:23
  So I mean, there's that the there's these amazing people that have been there for a while, but the even bigger is that that there's all these new people that are coming in, and I actually think we'll see action on this.
• 35:35
  Now, just to comment, right?
• 35:37
  There's there's action on the state level too.
• 35:38
  Six states have now passed legislation around this, 44 to go.
• 35:42
  That's a way to get involved.
• 35:44
  There's even a rotary club.
• 35:45
  I'm a newly meant to because uh because they created a satellite rotary club committed to ending forced organ harvesting.
• 35:53
  So how could I not join, right?
• 35:55
  Uh, under this.
• 35:56
  And they're actually and you were pondering whether you should become an elk.
• 36:00
  No, you've got to join the rotary.
• 36:03
  We're gonna take a look at it.
• 36:04
  Well, it's a great service organization.
• 36:05
  I used to work with them when I ran international youth programs all the time.
• 36:08
  There was a great organization to work with.
• 36:10
  We're gonna take a little break and we're gonna come back and wrap up with our good friend Janny Kellic, who's been so nice.
• 36:16
  We had little technical problems, and we don't want him to miss all the things that he's covering today.
• 36:21
  So thank you for being patient with us, Jan.
• 36:23
  And thank you for being out there and being champions to human rights because this audience, they're fearless, Yan.
• 36:30
  They're a great audience.
• 36:31
  I'm Blanquita Cullum.
• 36:33
  This is the national security hour.
• 36:35
  You must get killed to order by our great friend Yanya Kelleck, and we'll be back.
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• 39:15
  This is the National Security Hour on the America Out Loud Network.
• 39:20
  I'm your host, Blanquita Cullum, and I'm very honored to have a dear friend Jan Ykellec, who is one of the senior editors at the Epic Times.
• 39:29
  He has such a great program.
• 39:32
  If you haven't seen American Thought Leaders, you must watch it.
• 39:35
  I think what I hear, Jan about that great show is that you have a real discussion with people.
• 39:43
  You have a real discussion with people.
• 39:46
  Oh crap.
• 39:47
  I'm sorry.
• 39:48
  We're going to start it again.
• 39:50
  Welcome back to the National Security Hour on the America Out Loud Network.
• 39:55
  Crazy show today.
• 39:58
  It's a powerful show because we're
• 40:00
  We're talking human rights.
• 40:01
  We're talking your conscience, America out there.
• 40:04
  Some of you say, if I'd lived in the civil war, I never would have been a person that owned a slave.
• 40:09
  I would have been part of the American underground trying to help people get their liberty.
• 40:14
  Well, now you can be a part of an underground that is helping innocent victims from having their organs harvested by the communist Chinese.
• 40:22
  That's why you have to get this book.
• 40:24
  And it's called Kill to Order, brilliant book by Jan Yellic, who is a senior editor with the Epic Times, great host of American thought leaders.
• 40:34
  And Young, you we've been through it today with this crazy show.
• 40:37
  We've had buzzers go off, technology try to stop us.
• 40:41
  You see, we're talking about tough stuff that must be shared with people of conscience like this audience.
• 40:49
  And I want to make sure that we hear it determined to share what you've been doing, this passionate work.
• 40:55
  Tell us more about kill to order.
• 40:59
  I think the critical thing about the book, okay, is that it helps explain how this murder for organs industry in China is really the a very powerful lens into understanding how the Chinese communist party works and things like into its mind.
• 41:16
  One of the biggest sort of mistakes in a way, one of the biggest problems we've had the last 40 years, I would argue, is just simply not understanding how the CCP works ultimately and thinking, for example, not realizing that they have zero sum thinking, like thinking we can partner with them, for example, not realizing that they really don't think of things that way.
• 41:39
  It's either it's a win, you win, I lose kind of scenario from the very beginning, and every so-called partnership is just a subterfuge to gain leverage over you in some way to take advantage of you, to figure out where to kind of stick that knife in through the you know, in the gap, so to speak.
• 41:57
  And so it's uh and that that's difficult for us to fathom because we've been a very open society for the longest time.
• 42:04
  A lot of people assume the best intentions, you know, the Chinese communist party has earned the right over decades to assume the bad intentions because they it always turns out that way, actually.
• 42:16
  Do you think I'm gonna put something to you that really struck me as you were talking about this?
• 42:21
  Do you think that the communist Chinese government thinks that the American people really don't care about Chinese people, that they don't look like them, they don't have the same ethics, they don't believe in the same religion.
• 42:36
  And so, in other words, they're banking on that what they perceive to be biased to make uh people who really are the most fair people in the world, the American people, you know.
• 42:48
  I look at our constitution, our bill of rights, but they're looking like perhaps they're so different, they're not going to care about the outcome of these people.
• 42:58
  And if they die, well, whatever.
• 43:00
  Am I reading this wrong?
• 43:03
  Well, I think there's might be a bit of that, but I think the big piece of propaganda that they use is you know, look look at how bad America is, actually.
• 43:12
  Look at all the bad things that we've done.
• 43:14
  Do you what right do you have, first of all, to come in and point your finger at us?
• 43:19
  And secondly, you know, you know, you you have a whole lot of your own problems.
• 43:24
  Why are you why would you look over at us?
• 43:26
  And so the answer to that question, by the way, I can answer that question well.
• 43:30
  But this is very compelling propaganda in a country that is suffering from a lot of internal problems and you know, a lot of like huge viewpoints and you know significant polarization, though not as much as the propaganda would have you believe.
• 43:45
  Um, and all of that, right?
• 43:47
  So it's sort of like a way to deflect, and again, if this has been the Chinese Communist Party strategy all along.
• 43:52
  We want to, I mean, this could sound really really strong, but we want to rule the world.
• 43:58
  That doesn't mean that we want to kill everybody or something like that.
• 44:01
  It means that we just want compliant vassal states that do what we want, and the U.S.
• 44:05
  is our primary problem in achieving this.
• 44:08
  Now, by the way, the system that would work like that would be a hell on earth because we know already we have we have 50 years plus of knowledge of how this Chinese Communist Party treats its people, that now the newest, you know, extreme surveillance state and everything else, right?
• 44:24
  But so that's how they deflect from it.
• 44:25
  They say, look, it's really not, it's either none of your business, right?
• 44:29
  Or like you're you're actually the bad one.
• 44:31
  It's go it's kind of, you know, we may have some problems, but it's kind of America's kind of the same, actually.
• 44:36
  Are we are we though becoming naive again?
• 44:39
  I mean, it's hard to fathom, you know, being what through your family went through in Poland, your your great wife Cindy's family went through through Nazi Germany.
• 44:48
  Uh, you did that great documentary, Finding Manny, which is out there, people should see it.
• 44:54
  But the main thing is are we becoming naive to the horror of communism?
• 44:59
  We're we're thinking it's maybe not nobody's done it right.
• 45:03
  Maybe in in theory, it should have it could have been great, but they just rush on and and Germany and Poland and all these places, they didn't do it right.
• 45:14
  I I think that is the problem, right?
• 45:17
  Because I do think that um one thing you'll learn in kill to order is that forced organ harvesting is a feature of the system, not a bug.
• 45:27
  It's not an aberration.
• 45:28
  And that's very important.
• 45:30
  All these horrible things are actually a feature, not an aberration.
• 45:33
  And I explain that actually in quite a bit of detail because they take this extreme utilitarian view of how human beings are.
• 45:42
  And so, you know, one way you could think about it is through a lens of um by biological ethics, right?
• 45:48
  Four stories is an example.
• 45:50
  On one side, we have Hippocratic Medicine, which is you know, the sort of you uh I try to do the best I can for you as I'm your doctor, I'm working with the patient.
• 46:00
  I try to minimize the harm of any intervention I would offer.
• 46:03
  That's a sort of a signature decision.
• 46:06
  I I I or a signature thing I build my decision making around.
• 46:11
  That's a one poll.
• 46:13
  The other poll is what we call utilitarian bioethics and utilitarian bioethics is the greatest good for the greatest number.
• 46:19
  Um, which it means that it's okay to sacrifice a few if the pack, if the herd, so to speak, will benefit from that greatly.
• 46:26
  And so the so while I was writing the book, I've been thinking a lot about bioethics lately and also a lot about communism.
• 46:32
  And I just remembered one day I was thinking, my goodness.
• 46:35
  Joseph Stalin once said, or it's typically ascribed to him, you know, to famously to make an almond, you've got to break a few eggs, right?
• 46:43
  Well, that's actually the epitome of utilitarian bioethics, right?
• 46:49
  And this is if you if you think about it, right?
• 46:51
  It's like, hey, for the greatest for the beautiful uh communist utopia, we may have to sacrifice a few people to get there, right?
• 46:59
  But this is the this is why you always get atrocity in communist societies, because the greatest good and the under communist China, for example, is the survival and supremacy of the communist party.
• 47:10
  And so if you need, if a lot of people need to die to achieve that, why not?
• 47:14
  Right?
• 47:14
  It's for the greatest good.
• 47:15
  This is the problem with the greatest good logic because someone's always there, right?
• 47:19
  Who is uh able to decide around what that is, and if you happen to be in the group that's sacrificed, and of course, in communist societies, that's a massive, it ends up being a massive part of the population.
• 47:29
  It doesn't work out very well for you, right?
• 47:32
  And ironically, you think you know, people want equal rights.
• 47:35
  Well, you don't get it in communism.
• 47:37
  You've got people that are going to make a determination, it's like the old all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
• 47:44
  Exactly right.
• 47:45
  That's a fact of the matter is, you know, you may say, Oh, this looks great, but then you find out, well, I'm not one of the animals that's more equal than others.
• 47:52
  I'm the animal that gets gets sacrificed.
• 47:54
  Me and my aunt Velma, we get to get sacrificed.
• 47:57
  Does anybody care about us?
• 47:59
  And then you've got these people that are filled with the propaganda and that are looking at you as disposable.
• 48:06
  So, in other words, who makes a determination who gets to be disposable, which takes us back to, well, yeah, I don't know who that guy is.
• 48:14
  I don't want to know.
• 48:15
  I'm just gonna stay in the in the hotel, and then I'll go to the hospital, I'll get the transplant and I'll go home.
• 48:20
  And you don't have the conscience of worrying about who was disposable.
• 48:26
  Yeah, and I mean, you I think you said it incredibly well.
• 48:29
  And so this is the our misunderstanding of the way this system thinks and how it's it's allowed it.
• 48:36
  They took advantage of our gullibility, you know, our goodwill, and also quite honestly, our greed.
• 48:42
  They took advantage of all these things, and they built themselves into the world's biggest dictatorship that does something like such an extreme thing.
• 48:50
  Like it was called by one of the famed researchers of this name, David Made us, an evil yet to be seen on this planet.
• 48:56
  We we we just kind of help them build that.
• 48:59
  And this is where we I think at the very least for those of us that believe that we don't want to be, you know, we we we need to focus on our own house first, right?
• 49:09
  I say, okay, well, then let's how about we stop our own complicity in this?
• 49:12
  Let's not absolutely not train any more of those transplant surgeons that we've trained for in chat for China.
• 49:18
  Let's not give them any funding for their transplant hospitals, which we how are we doing with that?
• 49:24
  Are we doing well with that?
• 49:25
  We've got a few minutes left.
• 49:26
  We're doing poorly with that.
• 49:27
  We're doing how can the audience, how can the audience help?
• 49:31
  Because I always like to tell the audience, you know, you have a lot of power that you don't realize.
• 49:35
  I asked the audience, do they know who their mayor is, their city council, their state rep, their senators?
• 49:41
  Call them, go to city council meetings.
• 49:43
  If you're state rep or your senators in town, talk to them.
• 49:47
  First of all, and I encourage them because I know how powerful this book is and how it will empower you to speak with more authority to your representative or your senator.
• 49:59
  Get
• 50:00
  Kill to order, but what other things can they do?
• 50:05
  If you're involved in federal politics or even you know, you know who your senator is.
• 50:10
  You know, it's amazing what a hundred calls to a senator's office can do to move something.
• 50:14
  It's actually, you know, it's it's amazing what what you can do, even through that.
• 50:18
  If you're at doing state level politics, again, there's there's model bills that basically stop funding for China transplants for people in America, either through Medicare Medicaid or Insurance.
• 50:29
  These should be in all 50 states.
• 50:31
  I actually heard the Wisconsin governor recently vetoed one of these.
• 50:34
  I don't know the reason.
• 50:35
  Whoa.
• 50:36
  But uh, so there's something if you're in Wisconsin, you might want to get that legislation back, you know, another variation of it and get it passed.
• 50:44
  Or I don't, I don't know if they if if the a governor can reverse uh this.
• 50:49
  Or get some of your organizations like the Rotary did and buy a bunch of copies of the book and drop it by.
• 50:57
  Yeah, yeah.
• 50:57
  No, a hundred a hundred percent.
• 50:59
  That that that that's a great idea.
• 51:01
  But also, there's 44, you know, 44 states to go, so to speak, in terms of getting this kind of legislation passed.
• 51:07
  And honestly, and going back to the Rotary Club, Rotary in some parts of the world is like this elite organization in America.
• 51:14
  It's very democratized, like literally for you know, the the the buried, the entry level is very low.
• 51:19
  If you all you need to do is want to be of service, and you could join and you could join this uh satellite rotary club, and they will they are they're already.
• 51:27
  My point is they're already doing stuff.
• 51:28
  You're not one of these persons who wants to be out there with a megaphone, but you want to do something.
• 51:32
  That's a great way to organize.
• 51:34
  And these are all people that are service oriented, typically really decent people in communities.
• 51:39
  So, you know, I I there's there's a whole suite of things.
• 51:42
  And by the way, in the book itself, I have an appendix committed to that question in detail.
• 51:47
  Okay.
• 51:48
  Oh, wonderful.
• 51:49
  Yeah.
• 51:50
  So we need to help with that.
• 51:51
  And you know, as we talk, I keep telling everyone over and over again because you know, people tune in at different periods.
• 51:58
  It's killtoorder.com.
• 52:00
  We want to make this a mega best seller, not just your basic bestseller, not just on the New York Times list.
• 52:08
  I like the New York Times to get this on their list of conscience, because anyone who reads this book can't walk away and feel like they they can't do something.
• 52:18
  You must do something.
• 52:20
  And the beginning is to buy the book.
• 52:22
  What other words of wisdom can you give us here in these last few minutes as we wrap up the show?
• 52:31
  I've been at it for 20 years.
• 52:33
  At the beginning, it really looked pretty grim when I say that is people would literally literally like leave the conversation midstream as I would talk about this.
• 52:42
  And initially, I was kind of irritated.
• 52:44
  Uh, but I realized that people just can't handle it.
• 52:47
  And I remember in my own mind wanting to run away from it when I was first learning about it.
• 52:52
  So my point is that you know, I feel one we're at a unique time.
• 52:57
  We're wiser somehow as a society, and I think we can actually make a difference and save some lives through this legislation through raising awareness with the book and and so forth.
• 53:06
  So that's but the the other part is you know, kind of stick it out, right?
• 53:10
  Like it was very easy to just sort of give up on it, right?
• 53:14
  I kind of went on and off, to be perfectly honest.
• 53:16
  When it's I saw more opportunity, I would report on it again when I saw less.
• 53:19
  I would I I covered other things, I looked at other issues too.
• 53:23
  But but sometimes, you know, over time, there's this cumulative effect of you know contributing to a bigger issue, and it seems to have worked here.
• 53:33
  So I would just say, you know, don't don't get daunted when you know something's right and something's important, stay committed, and uh, you know, I good things might happen on the other end, as well, you know, really and truly, you know, we learn about periods of history.
• 53:48
  We learn about what happened in World War II.
• 53:50
  We learned about, you know, again, people not facing the the horrific reality of what happened in the Holocaust.
• 53:59
  But we we look here in this country at the civil war and the people that that averted their eyes to the the situation with slavery.
• 54:08
  Well, this book is so important because while we're here, we might as well make a difference for good, right?
• 54:15
  Great to come out of it and think I tried to do something for good.
• 54:18
  And your book has an appendix that kind of gives people some idea of how to do that, and we want to help Yanya Kellech make this book one of the most important books ever.
• 54:32
  And by golly, it should be in the library of Congress.
• 54:35
  That's darn sure.
• 54:36
  And you notice on this book, I'm I'm reading it right now.
• 54:39
  The foreword is by Ambassador Sam Brown back and Dr.
• 54:44
  Joseph Faron.
• 54:45
  Am I pronouncing his last name correctly?
• 54:47
  Or is it Vera?
• 54:49
  Faron and Verone, yeah.
• 54:51
  But it's a wonderful book, killed to order.
• 54:54
  And and honestly, uh, I know you're out there, you've been doing a lot of um speeches around the country.
• 55:01
  You just did one at the Kennedy Center with Rob Schneider.
• 55:05
  You did one recently at the Cosmos Club.
• 55:08
  You'll be doing more around the nation.
• 55:10
  But the most important thing we ask you to do is tune in to the Epic Times and see American Thought Leaders, and you're gonna see the guy who wrote this book, and then maybe first is buy the book and then tune into America Thought Leaders.
• 55:24
  Your your thoughts on that one.
• 55:25
  We want to make sure we sell this book.
• 55:27
  That that sounds right.
• 55:28
  Yeah.
• 55:28
  So again, the simplest way is killed to order.com, but get it from your local bookstore or order it to your local library.
• 55:36
  All that is wonderful, and it it'll make a difference.
• 55:38
  If we can keep it on the best seller lists for a while, that would be wonderful.
• 55:43
  Like I really think it will show people tell me they'll they'll stores will start putting it in public places, you know, it just it'll it'll make a difference.
• 55:51
  And I want to thank everyone in advance who wants to get in on this.
• 55:55
  So thanks.
• 55:56
  Well, we loved having you on the show.
• 55:58
  My wonderful friend Yanya Kellech and uh all the great folks at the Epic Times with their first precepts, which is truth, which right now in media is a hard thing to find.
• 56:13
  And we're very blessed here in the national security hour to kind of endorse that and try to hold that to our first principle as well.
• 56:21
  Yanya Kelly, kill to order.
• 56:24
  We're hoping that we can sell more books on this.
• 56:26
  I'm proud to call you a friend and your wonderful wife, Cindy Druckear.
• 56:30
  And thank you, my friends out there that listen to us on the America Out Loud Network.
• 56:36
  I'm Blanquita Cullum, and we'll talk again next week.