Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Curtis Swogger on AI, Leadership, and the Future of Oral Surgery

Transcript

Curtis Swogger on AI, Leadership, and the Future of Oral Surgery · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - Every dental leader is facing the same question
• 0:04
  - right now, whether to grow, partner, sell, or
• 0:07
  - hold the line. There's no neutral move anymore.
• 0:10
  - DSOs are consolidating,
• 0:12
  - valuations are climbing,
• 0:13
  - AI and digital tools are raising the bar
• 0:15
  - on what a modern practice even looks like.
• 0:18
  - And the calls you make this year will
• 0:20
  - shape the next decade. Becker's fifth annual future
• 0:23
  - of dentistry roundtable is where you make those
• 0:25
  - calls with better information.
• 0:27
  - You'll be in the company of 250
• 0:29
  - plus executives, 90 plus speakers, and two days
• 0:32
  - of intimate discussion driven sessions with DSO and
• 0:35
  - independent practice leaders laying out what's working on
• 0:38
  - growth,
• 0:39
  - talent, and tech, and what they do differently.
• 0:42
  - So join us September fourteenth and fifteenth at
• 0:44
  - the Hilton Chicago, and come ready to decide
• 0:47
  - what's next. Register on our events page at
• 0:49
  - beckersdental.com
• 0:51
  - by clicking in the events tab in the
• 0:53
  - upper right.
• 0:55
  - Hello. This is Arianna Podolatin with the Becker's
• 0:57
  - Dental and DSO Review podcast.
• 0:59
  - I'm thrilled to be joined today by Curtis
• 1:01
  - Swager, the CEO of North Pittsburgh Oral Surgery.
• 1:04
  - Curtis, thank you so much for being here
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  - today. It's a pleasure to have you. I'm
• 1:07
  - grateful to be here. Pleasure is all mine.
• 1:09
  - Alright. Well, to start things off, can you
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  - introduce yourself for our listeners and tell us
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  - a little bit about your background?
• 1:15
  - Absolutely.
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  - My name is Kurt Swager, currently the CEO
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  - of North Pittsburgh Oral Surgery. We're a referral
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  - based
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  - board certified oral surgery group out of Pittsburgh,
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  - Pennsylvania.
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  - We are growing. We've been around for fifty
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  - years, and we're continuing to expand and create
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  - access to care.
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  - But I didn't grow up here. You know,
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  - I grew up in the retail world. I
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  - started out in the first, the psych background
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  - working in group homes, and then,
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  - through Dunlop, ended up in the retail world.
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  - I worked with Penns Oil, Quaker State, and
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  - Shove Oil, working my way up through regional
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  - manager positions.
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  - So I learned about business there. I learned
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  - about how to put at the time, they
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  - talked about putting high performance teams together.
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  - I learned about company culture.
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  - And then Shell purchased the organization, and over
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  - time, we dissolved,
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  - those portfolios.
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  - And then I received an email one day
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  - from a guy asking me if I ever
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  - thought about dentistry.
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  - And little did I know because I was
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  - your typical noncompliant patient back in the day,
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  - I ended up,
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  - working for Pacific Dental Services. So I've been
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  - with the organization
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  - while in the dental space for over eighteen
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  - years. That was my first outing, and I'm
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  - very grateful for them because,
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  - they were hiring,
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  - regional managers at the time that didn't have
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  - dental, but understood business and understood how to
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  - put teams together and so forth. So they
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  - really taught me dentistry. And from there, I
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  - I grew up. I got involved with Aspen
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  - Dental,
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  - working my way up, through director of operations
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  - position through 2014.
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  - Took my first c suite position and chief
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  - operating officer position when I left them,
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  - and and here we are. But for me,
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  - really, at the end of the day, this
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  - this captures everything for me, my altruistic side,
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  - helping patients get the care they need, and
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  - the business side, seeing teams come together,
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  - thriving,
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  - that ultimately end up getting the patients the
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  - care they need. So I haven't looked back
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  - since eighteen years in, and I'm continuing to
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  - enjoy the ride. So very grateful to be
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  - here.
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  - That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing
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  - your background. First question for you. What are
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  - some of the biggest issues that you're following
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  - in the dental industry this year?
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  - Yeah. You know, that's a great question.
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  - Typically, I lead with culture and and just
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  - leadership. But, really, at the end of the
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  - day, it's the technology.
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  - Right now, I'm closely watching the adoption and
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  - scaling of artificial intelligence across the dental space,
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  - certainly,
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  - OMS, oral surgery, operations.
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  - It is the dominant conversation in every leadership
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  - room that I've been in.
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  - What I'm watching closely is why, the groups
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  - are adopting it. I get the sense that
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  - many are chasing it as a purely cost
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  - savings measure. I see that a lot, you
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  - know, maybe in part because it's a shiny
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  - new tool or they're looking to scale their
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  - business. Maybe there's, you know, external pressures.
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  - Few are asking how it may change the
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  - way they deliver the care and run a
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  - business. So it's really something I'm watching right
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  - now and and injecting myself in conversation so
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  - I can stay educated.
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  - Okay. And how is AI currently being used
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  - at North Pittsburgh Oral Fluidery?
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  - Yeah. So we do some of it with
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  - the insurance piece. We did have a small
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  - DWEP,
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  - early on with our phone system incorporating artificial
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  - intelligence.
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  - It's about thirty, forty five days in on
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  - that project, and I pulled the cord on
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  - it because I just don't think we're ready.
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  - And it's certainly something that, you know, I'll
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  - unpack on this podcast.
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  - You know, artificial intelligence is is definitely the
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  - future. I think using it, is gonna be
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  - appropriate, for different organizations and how they view
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  - it. For us, I I don't think we're
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  - there yet.
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  - Okay.
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  - And what are you most excited about when
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  - it comes to dentistry at the moment, and
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  - is there anything that's making you nervous?
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  - Well, and that's the great thing. Right? So
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  - I'm gonna stay on, you know, the artificial
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  - intelligence train, the technology.
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  - You know, what excites me is that we've
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  - hit an inflection point. You know, this isn't
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  - early stage hype anymore, and it isn't a
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  - slow plateau either. You know, the technology has
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  - matured to where it has real meaningful application
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  - in how we operate.
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  - What makes me nervous, you know, is the
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  - pace of the legislation and governance around it.
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  - You know, right now, we know that Texas
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  - requires providers to tell patients upfront when AI
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  - is involved in their diagnosis or treatment.
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  - California has similar disclosure requirements. Certainly, Illinois has
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  - gone further and prohibited AI from making independent
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  - therapeutic decisions.
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  - We operate out of Pennsylvania, and Pennsylvania
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  - hasn't codified this yet. You know? So for
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  - us, you know, I'd rather our group hold
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  - itself to that standard now on principle than
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  - wait for the state to acquire it so
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  - we're being really sensitive around that.
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  - My concern isn't AI assisted clinical decisions. That's
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  - been a part of medicine for a long
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  - time.
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  - My concern is using AI as the first
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  - point of human contact with a patient. I
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  - believe we'll get there. I just don't think
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  - we're there yet.
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  - I'm also watching colleagues use AI to scale
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  - their business and dissolve,
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  - entire departments overnight.
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  - And I believe that evolution is coming up
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  - to a point. I'm not naive to that,
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  - but as a leader, I'm intentional about getting
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  - there through attrition and thoughtful workforce planning, not
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  - wholesale reductions.
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  - You know, people built these organizations. I don't
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  - think the right way through this transition is
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  - to discard them the moment a tool can
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  - replace a task.
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  - So I wanna be really sensitive about that
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  - and make sure that it's a win win.
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  - It's it's a win for the organization, the
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  - team, and and really, ultimately, our culture, our
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  - legacy.
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  - Yeah. Super interesting. Thank you for sharing your
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  - thoughts there. What will the most effective health
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  - care leaders need to be successful in the
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  - next two to three years?
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  - Yeah. So when I think about the operator
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  - side of this, the fundamentals
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  - don't change.
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  - Leadership, growing the business, developing a team, that
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  - stays constant.
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  - What changes is the technology and the new
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  - ideas on top of it. And sometimes that
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  - means changing how you manage and lead a
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  - team. You know, there was a time with
• 6:43
  - GE, General Electric, and Jack Welch. You know,
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  - they were known for racking and stacking or
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  - ranking the bottom 10% of employees out the
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  - door. And over time, GE and the broader
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  - industry moved away from that model. They moved
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  - towards sharing best practices and developing people together,
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  - and that's part of where the modern idea
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  - of company culture came from.
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  - External factors don't stay external forever.
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  - They become a part of how the business
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  - itself evolves.
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  - Call centers used to sit inside the company,
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  - then the market shifted and most of them
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  - got outsourced.
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  - AI, in my opinion, is the latest version
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  - of that same pattern. You know, right now,
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  - I'm investing in developing our next generation of
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  - operators from inside our own organization.
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  - You know? So, ultimately,
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  - you know, when they embrace these changes, they
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  - can leverage them responsibly, you know, without losing
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  - sight of what makes us special. You know,
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  - that's the most effective health care leaders
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  - over the next two years or three years
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  - will be the ones who know their organization
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  - and know themselves. You have to understand who
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  - you are as a leader, before you can
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  - decide how much of these changes to embrace
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  - and at what pace without losing what makes
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  - your people and your organization special.
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  - And I'd love to know too, just learning
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  - about your extensive background in dentistry and how
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  - you've worked for various organizations, I would just
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  - love to hear your thoughts on,
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  - what will make or break DSO success or
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  - dental group success, within the next two to
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  - three years.
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  - Yeah. You know, I think we're seeing some
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  - of it. You know, it's in the news.
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  - You know, I I've interviewed with private groups.
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  - I've interviewed with private equity.
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  - You know, my my big thing is the
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  - culture. Culture is what people do when no
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  - one's watching. And,
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  - really, it's your team that culture in place
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  - that is the stability
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  - through all things, both internal and external stresses.
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  - And, you know, we're seeing now,
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  - a lot of these groups, I suspect, in
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  - the next year, year and a half, you're
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  - gonna see a merge,
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  - between a couple large groups. It's kind of
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  - the next evolution. I don't think the private
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  - equity multiples are there the way they were
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  - five to eight years ago.
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  - But it's really you know, what it's gonna
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  - come down to is getting back to basics
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  - and making sure you have that team in
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  - place. You know, I learned many years ago,
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  - and I I'm even experiencing
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  - it here. You know, as you retain your
• 8:52
  - top talent, as you continue to develop and
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  - invest in them, and they season in their
• 8:56
  - role,
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  - if you don't add any providers and you
• 8:59
  - don't expand hours,
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  - you're still going to see an improvement just
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  - because the execution improves.
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  - You know? And
• 9:07
  - really getting back to basics, investing in your
• 9:09
  - team, I think we're gonna see more of
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  - that. I think one of the large groups
• 9:12
  - announced this year that they were going back
• 9:13
  - to basics, and it was people first.
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  - And and for me, it's always been about
• 9:17
  - the people. You know, it's the team inside
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  - the four walls that makes the difference, and
• 9:21
  - we're gonna see more of that over the
• 9:22
  - next year, year and a half. And it
• 9:24
  - won't even be a three year time frame.
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  - It's gonna be pretty quick.
• 9:27
  - Okay. Well, Well, super interesting. Thank you for
• 9:29
  - sharing that. That's all I have for you
• 9:31
  - today. Thank you so much for joining us.
• 9:33
  - Been a pleasure speaking with you. I'm looking
• 9:34
  - forward to connecting with you again in the
• 9:35
  - future. Oh, this has been great. Thank you
• 9:37
  - so much for having me.