Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Rambling With A Heretical Heathen [RHR S7 EP19 feat. Robert Nox]

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Rambling With A Heretical Heathen [RHR S7 EP19 feat. Robert Nox] · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things dramatic
• 0:07
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I'm your
• 0:10
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• 1:09
  All right, everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of
• 1:11
  the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast.
• 1:13
  Hope you're all doing well, staying healthy and enjoying the
• 1:17
  very early stages of late spring and the very late stages of
• 1:21
  early spring. I should say in the early stages
• 1:23
  of summer here in the US just had cigar bloat about a week or
• 1:28
  two ago for Astra Manic heathens welcoming in that historical
• 1:33
  heathens summer. All the other pagans and stuff
• 1:37
  having their belt tanes and this and that.
• 1:39
  New Times for everybody, new and awakening times for all types of
• 1:44
  non traditional or non, you know, non contemporary religions
• 1:48
  nowadays. So good to have you here.
• 1:50
  Thank you so much for being here and a very special thanks to all
• 1:52
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• 1:55
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• 2:00
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• 2:05
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  Podcasts and the wherever else's that you listen to the show.
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  Hail to you and thank you so much for your support.
• 2:22
  It is greatly appreciated. If you want to continue to show
• 2:25
  support for what this show is about and what we do here, head
• 2:28
  on down to the show notes area. You'll find all all various
• 2:31
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• 2:35
  have visibility to are are active my book, all kinds of
• 2:40
  things. So check it all out, see what
• 2:41
  fits you, but at the very least, keep on listening, keep sharing
• 2:45
  and thank you all so very much. Now today, this week, I have a
• 2:49
  guest lined up, fella who's been listening to the show for not
• 2:53
  exactly sure for how long, but long enough to least know of me.
• 2:56
  We've crossed paths in different areas on the Facebook realm here
• 2:59
  and there and some comments sections.
• 3:02
  And he's got a podcast of his own that he's just recently
• 3:05
  launched. I believe he's about 3 or 4
• 3:06
  episodes and it's called the Heretical Heathen Podcast.
• 3:10
  And you can find out the links for that on Spotify, I think
• 3:15
  YouTube and Substack and a bunch of other places.
• 3:17
  So there's going to be some more links down in the description
• 3:21
  area if you're watching this or down in the show notes where you
• 3:24
  can find the Heretical Heathen Podcast.
• 3:26
  But without further ado, we're going to go ahead and welcome on
• 3:28
  the host of this show and the founder, his name is Robert.
• 3:35
  So, Robert, welcome to the show and thank you for being here,
• 3:39
  man. Yeah.
• 3:41
  Thank you, Jesse. All right, man, this is not.
• 3:44
  By the way, for those of you that are all watching on on on
• 3:47
  Patreon, Robert is not a Gray circular figure floating and
• 3:53
  vibrating with flames around. I'm just at least not that not
• 3:55
  so far as I can ascertain, I think.
• 3:57
  I think Robert is an actual human being.
• 3:59
  Robert, you can correct this if I'm wrong, but.
• 4:04
  I am, in fact, a spear with fire around me.
• 4:07
  OK, see, that's your true form, and you you can only manifest it
• 4:11
  on long distances. I got it now.
• 4:13
  OK. So, yeah, man, welcome to, to to
• 4:17
  RHR. Man, How you been?
• 4:18
  What's what's life like in your neck of the woods, which I
• 4:21
  assume is somewhere in Midgard maybe?
• 4:25
  I am in Wisconsin. It's fine to put that out there
• 4:28
  and life has been pretty good, but with the warming of the
• 4:30
  seasons comes like a lot more work at the muggle job and
• 4:34
  interpersonal life. My wife and I work farmers
• 4:37
  markets in our local area and those are starting up.
• 4:40
  So we work full time and now we're gonna be doing farmers
• 4:42
  markets. And we just started door dashing
• 4:44
  as well. So we're just working like 60
• 4:46
  hours or more a week. Plus the podcast now.
• 4:48
  It's been hectic fun. Very cool, man.
• 4:53
  Yeah, Let me tell you what, if you're gonna be so like you're
• 4:56
  you're you're hosting your own podcast, I'm sure.
• 4:59
  Are you producing it all too? Are you scripting it?
• 5:02
  Are you? Is it?
• 5:02
  Is it you only that that's doing this or do you have like some
• 5:06
  other people that are working it with you?
• 5:08
  Oh, it's all me. At first I was using some AI
• 5:12
  things to help craft a script, but that got boring very quickly
• 5:16
  and stale and you could tell that I was just reading and I
• 5:19
  wasn't into it. I'm trying to get better at just
• 5:22
  being me and putting my authentic self out there and
• 5:25
  letting people deal with that however they may.
• 5:28
  Yeah, yeah, man. And I'll, I'll tell you right
• 5:30
  now, like if you're just getting into this, it's, it's a full
• 5:32
  time thing. Even if you're just doing 1
• 5:34
  show, I don't know how long your shows plan to last.
• 5:38
  I know I've, I've watched a few or listened rather to a few of
• 5:41
  your shows on Spotify that were about 30 minutes, 45 minutes or
• 5:45
  so long, which is, I mean, to, to, to sit in front of a
• 5:49
  microphone or a camera and talk to yourself for that length of
• 5:54
  time. People don't think about it like
• 5:56
  that's kind of a it's, it's, it's a challenge at times.
• 6:00
  At least it hasn't been for me. How's it been for you getting
• 6:03
  into that kind of a project? Well, I'm sure you're aware a
• 6:07
  little inside baseball for people who don't do this, like
• 6:10
  20 minutes, that's about an hour plus of recording, going back,
• 6:15
  cutting out phrases. I don't like getting rid of the
• 6:17
  sniffles. It takes a long time to put out
• 6:19
  even 20 minutes. I would like to get up to an
• 6:22
  hour. Yeah, yeah.
• 6:26
  It is, it's especially if you're doing all that and because post
• 6:29
  edit is where all the work is, you know, cutting out those
• 6:33
  pauses or those weird phrases or that crack or this or that, you
• 6:36
  know what I mean? Like and just that's that's as
• 6:39
  much of the work, if not more than just doing the recording
• 6:42
  part. Yeah.
• 6:44
  So, but so, yeah, so OK, you're up in Wisconsin, man.
• 6:49
  I've got, I've got several people that I know up in the
• 6:51
  area, the Midwest area, you know, up to up into like
• 6:56
  Minnesota. What's it called?
• 6:59
  It was a like one of those Viking festivals every year they
• 7:04
  have up in Minnesota somewhere. I'm trying to remember the name
• 7:06
  of it now. But anyway, it seems to be a
• 7:12
  pretty rich culture of like the, the Northern European,
• 7:17
  Scandinavian, Germanic people in the in the Midwest area.
• 7:24
  So have you always been heathen up in that and where you're from
• 7:27
  or if you did, you discover heathenry later on in life?
• 7:31
  I suppose that depends on what we mean by heathen, right?
• 7:35
  So I grew up in the backwoods of the Upper Peninsula, so in a
• 7:38
  sense, I was raised heathen. I was outside hunting, fishing,
• 7:43
  constantly playing in the woods. Of course, I attended a Lutheran
• 7:47
  Church, whatever that means. I was raised quote UN quote
• 7:51
  Christian, but my parents weren't really that serious
• 7:53
  about it. So in one sense I was raised
• 7:55
  heathen, but in another sense I discovered Heathenry later in
• 7:58
  life. I gotcha.
• 8:05
  I gotcha. So yeah, like I remember talking
• 8:07
  to a fellow one time who was raised kind of like you were
• 8:11
  saying like, you know, living off the land, you know, kind of
• 8:15
  a bit off the beaten path living, you know, in the
• 8:17
  country. And but his, his like lifestyle
• 8:22
  wasn't like they didn't go to church, but they had their own
• 8:25
  rituals. They had their own ceremonies,
• 8:26
  they had their own practices, I guess.
• 8:29
  But so even he was like, yeah, I didn't know what he, I didn't
• 8:32
  know what heathen was until later on because we didn't call
• 8:34
  it that. It was, we didn't have a name
• 8:37
  for it. And it makes me think about the
• 8:39
  really like where what we call heathenry now, you know, the
• 8:42
  people, same thing. They didn't have a name for it.
• 8:44
  That's just how they lived. They were just the people that
• 8:46
  lived off the land and, and had, you know, local regional gods
• 8:52
  and goddesses, what have you that they addressed or
• 8:56
  venerated, but they didn't have a name for what they believed
• 8:59
  in. So that's what that made me
• 9:01
  think of kind of almost like, you know, I was, I, I was
• 9:07
  brought up in a, you know, obviously went to Christian
• 9:11
  doctrine church or whatever. But the way I was living, you
• 9:14
  know, working on a farm and hunting and fishing and living
• 9:18
  off the land and all that stuff. Like, I'm glad that I grew up
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  with in that because that is so much about what heathenry is
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  without the ceremonies and without the rituals.
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  Like it's really just living in relation with the land.
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  Very animistic, you know. Yeah, and it makes you
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  appreciate everything a lot more when you get to see things like
• 9:41
  where your food actually comes from, as opposed to buying it
• 9:44
  off a shelf and being so disassociated from the natural
• 9:47
  processes that led to that food being on your plate.
• 9:50
  And that's something that Otter heathens don't get to see a lot
• 9:53
  that maybe guys like you and I actually got to see and be a
• 9:55
  part of. And I'm thankful for that.
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  It's I mean, it definitely helps knowing the the kind of the
• 10:05
  fundamentals or the foundational, you know, world
• 10:08
  views and things that are found within heathen practices.
• 10:12
  It it helps to know like the reasons why, why, why did the
• 10:15
  people believe this is away a certain thing?
• 10:18
  Well, it's because of their relation with the land as a as a
• 10:21
  result of it. But we're going to get into
• 10:24
  talking about a lot of other cool things that I've come to
• 10:26
  learn a little bit about you from your content, Robert.
• 10:30
  But I would like to get into, if you wouldn't mind just telling
• 10:33
  kind of myself in the audience, just a little bit about
• 10:36
  yourself, where you've come from.
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  Because you you answered this interesting way when I said, you
• 10:40
  know, doing the heathen thing. And you know, your answer was
• 10:44
  how would you define heathen or something like that, right.
• 10:48
  So I'm curious to hear a little bit about your background, where
• 10:51
  you come from to where you've arrived and what you were, what
• 10:56
  you might call yourself. I might you might identify for
• 10:59
  your audience or for people that might be coming and just
• 11:01
  discovering what you're doing. It's a big question.
• 11:09
  All right, well, we're just getting into how I got into
• 11:11
  like, I guess the more Magic Heathens sphere will start
• 11:14
  there. And that happened naturally
• 11:16
  around COVID when people were sort of stuck inside all day.
• 11:21
  And I found myself wondering like, all right, let's get into
• 11:26
  this. So when you're, say, a person of
• 11:29
  any heritage who's been in America for a while, you have no
• 11:32
  idea who you are. You don't know who your people
• 11:35
  are. You don't really know where your
• 11:37
  roots stem from. And I started thinking about
• 11:40
  this during COVID. And so I got my DNA tested like
• 11:44
  we all did, and I found out I was Germanic in Scandinavian.
• 11:50
  And so I started thinking, well, what are those people like?
• 11:53
  What were their foods like? And that of course, snowballed
• 11:55
  eventually into me thinking what was their religion like?
• 11:59
  And so I did whatever what he did.
• 12:01
  I got a Jackson Crawford version of the Poetic Edda, and I
• 12:05
  started reading the myths, and at first it was just an academic
• 12:10
  thing. I wasn't really interested in
• 12:12
  actually practicing. But then one day I said the name
• 12:17
  Tear when I was sitting in a car and I felt like lightning hit me
• 12:21
  and I felt like electricity shoot through every cell of my
• 12:24
  body, and it just changed my life.
• 12:28
  I was kind of agnostic at that point, but when that moment
• 12:31
  happened, when I felt that energy surge through me, I
• 12:34
  thought there's something here that I have to pursue.
• 12:38
  And that's sort of just snowballed from there.
• 12:41
  And then along the way I started getting into other things like
• 12:44
  chaos magic, the occult, whatever you want to call it,
• 12:47
  and trying to find ways to fuse that with this new found like
• 12:50
  heathen Spark. Interesting.
• 12:58
  And so I'm 'cause I'm pulling from, so you have like a pretty
• 13:03
  like I would say eclectic or diverse background of
• 13:06
  spirituality. Would that be an accurate
• 13:08
  assessment? Because you mentioned things
• 13:10
  like the occult and I believe in like 1 of your, it might have
• 13:14
  been like either your very first episode or your intro episode of
• 13:17
  your podcast. You kind of mentioned like all
• 13:22
  kinds of things that would find what find itself in the realm of
• 13:26
  spirituality, right? So, yeah, like I remember there
• 13:29
  were things you talking about like paranormal experiences or,
• 13:33
  you know, ghosts, ceremonial magic of different types, the
• 13:37
  occult. And that this kind of this is
• 13:41
  something that you've been interested in for more than just
• 13:43
  like since COVID, right? Like this is from a young age
• 13:47
  type of interest for you right? Yeah, the the interest in the
• 13:50
  paranormal has been since my earliest memories.
• 13:54
  Yeah. Do you think, do you think that
• 13:57
  interest as informed or helped shape where you've arrived at in
• 14:04
  your world view of you and and all the other things, the scene
• 14:07
  and the unseen? I think so.
• 14:11
  And what's more strange about it is it seems to run in my family.
• 14:15
  It doesn't hit every person. Sometimes it seems to skip a
• 14:18
  generation, but it seems that we have a consistent through line
• 14:22
  of people who maybe in another time might have been like quasi
• 14:26
  shamanic figures. So we're very obsessed with the
• 14:29
  unseen. We seem to have a lot of
• 14:32
  experiences with like ghosts, hearing voices, that sort of
• 14:35
  thing. So you've would you say you've
• 14:39
  grown up around that idea that we are not alone in this world?
• 14:43
  That just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there?
• 14:46
  Like, has that been a concept that you were familiar with very
• 14:50
  early in your life? I would say I grew up with that.
• 14:54
  And then I spent some years in the university system and I
• 14:58
  became like a rampant Richard Dawkins atheist, just very
• 15:02
  cringe, constantly arguing with people, telling him how stupid
• 15:05
  religion is. And then I had some more
• 15:07
  experiences and I changed my mind again.
• 15:13
  Were they always, if you don't mind me asking, like were they
• 15:16
  were they always Pagan centric or were they not like we would
• 15:23
  you able, would you be able to through those experiences to be
• 15:25
  able to define what type of Pagan flavor it it it resonated
• 15:30
  from, you know what I mean? Like did it have a specific
• 15:32
  aesthetic? Did it have a specific feel?
• 15:35
  Were they all over the place? I would say they're all over the
• 15:40
  place. I kind of think a lot of the
• 15:42
  times the Pagan frames are just that.
• 15:45
  They're frames in which we use to contain and explain an
• 15:49
  experience. But if you just strip those away
• 15:52
  and get down to the experience itself, it doesn't really fit
• 15:56
  any particular frame right. When you see like a a shadow
• 16:00
  person for the first time, I don't think, oh shit, oh can we
• 16:03
  curse? Yeah.
• 16:05
  Oh yeah. Absolutely.
• 16:06
  OK. OK, I don't, I don't think like
• 16:09
  I would hit like this shadow man's.
• 16:10
  Troll not yeah, but fuck yeah. You know, like, thank you for
• 16:16
  asking though. But yeah, fire away.
• 16:18
  Yeah, yeah, well, if I when I see like a shadow person, I
• 16:21
  wouldn't think like, oh shit, that's a troll, right.
• 16:23
  I'm just, I'm having an experience.
• 16:25
  It's a shadow figure. It's humanoid, doesn't really
• 16:29
  fit any frame. That said, there does seem to be
• 16:33
  a suspicious amount of like, paganism running through my life
• 16:37
  as if I wasn't in control of it. You know, some of my early
• 16:43
  roommates were Pagan, some of my early girlfriends were Pagan.
• 16:45
  I found myself just around spiritual people and it was
• 16:50
  like, it started making me think that maybe something like the
• 16:52
  fates of the norms are definitely real.
• 16:54
  Looking back, it's like I didn't have a choice to follow this
• 16:56
  path. It was laid before me.
• 17:02
  When when so OK, so you've got these years of a various non
• 17:07
  specific Pagan Pagan adjacent right experiences, things that
• 17:14
  you know, the average, you know, monotheist or whoever might
• 17:17
  might go possession or like look at it as something evil when
• 17:22
  they happened for you at the time, did you get did you have a
• 17:25
  sense of those experiences as being malevolent or benevolent?
• 17:30
  Like was there any gauge for you to measure those types of things
• 17:35
  up against to determine if it was a good thing or or a
• 17:38
  negative thing that was in interacting with you?
• 17:43
  I would be, I'd say no, but I would say that during the moment
• 17:48
  in which these things do happen, there is an overwhelming sense
• 17:52
  of fear. Well, when I saw my first shadow
• 17:56
  person, I wouldn't say it felt evil, but I was terrified and I
• 18:00
  ran away like any reasonable person would.
• 18:03
  But I wouldn't say these things are necessarily evil in the same
• 18:07
  way I wouldn't say like a bear is evil.
• 18:09
  If you stumble upon a bear in her Cubs in the woods and she
• 18:12
  attacks you, she's not necessarily evil.
• 18:14
  It's just her nature to protect her Cubs.
• 18:17
  Whatever these things are, they're just, they're nature.
• 18:21
  They're just doing what they do. Now that's interesting.
• 18:28
  I mean, I definitely come from a background of thinking along the
• 18:31
  lines of spirits exist, good and evil.
• 18:35
  And you know, I obviously was a much different background that I
• 18:40
  grew up in. It was a Christian mindset of
• 18:42
  things. So coming into Heathenry from
• 18:44
  that, like others who have to, I'm sure, you know, there's
• 18:48
  this, there's this period or this point of comparing things
• 18:51
  that, you know, from your previous world views to the
• 18:56
  things that you're coming into is like, if it doesn't feel
• 19:00
  good, if it's dark, then it must be bad.
• 19:02
  Like that sort of association with things and, you know, kind
• 19:05
  of coming away from that. So, yeah, it sounds like you
• 19:08
  definitely grew up in an environment or, or had a, an
• 19:11
  environment that you were around that was not quite as dogmatic,
• 19:16
  if that makes sense. Like not quite as yeah, I.
• 19:19
  I was raised in like the Lutheran Church and I using
• 19:21
  raised very gently here. My grandparents forced me to go,
• 19:25
  but our family wasn't very Christian like I'm sure your
• 19:28
  background might have been. So we didn't really put that
• 19:31
  frame over everything and it wasn't a part of our day-to-day
• 19:34
  lives. There's something weird
• 19:36
  happened. My parents wouldn't have said
• 19:38
  that's a demon, they just wouldn't have thought anything
• 19:40
  about it. We would have moved the fuck on.
• 19:44
  Gotcha. And then when you when, when you
• 19:47
  find, when you reach the point of taking the the interest of
• 19:51
  the occult or mythology into your practice, like the like
• 19:57
  your religious views, your spiritual views of the world
• 19:59
  were more around a specific Pagan mindset or Pagan belief.
• 20:07
  When that happened for you, was it the sagas, the myths, the
• 20:12
  stories that? Maybe drew your attention
• 20:15
  towards it more or were or was it more unlike the
• 20:21
  archaeological academic heritage side, like knowing where you're
• 20:24
  from and the land and the ancestry and you know the the
• 20:27
  study of it, like which would you say was was more the, the
• 20:31
  the magnet that pulled you towards it?
• 20:35
  I think at first it was probably heritage, however I am rubbish
• 20:40
  at history and I can't seem to remember dates, the name of
• 20:44
  certain rune stones, that sort of stuff.
• 20:46
  So then I got more into the myths and the magic.
• 20:51
  OK, that's interesting too. So in your OK, so when you got
• 20:56
  to the point of of, you know, the magical sides of things,
• 21:00
  were you already was that were you already into Heathenry at
• 21:04
  that point or were you still kind of exploring other Pagan
• 21:09
  beliefs when the magical mystical side of things hit hit
• 21:12
  for you? That's a good question, 'cause
• 21:15
  when I spoke tears name aloud and I felt that I definitely
• 21:19
  felt a draw towards heathenry. But there's still that skeptical
• 21:22
  part of your brain that's like, is, is this any of this shit
• 21:25
  real? And so I started getting into
• 21:27
  like magic and looking up like ceremonial magic and chaos
• 21:30
  magic. And then I started testing those
• 21:33
  to see if this, any of this is some kind of real, started doing
• 21:37
  sigil work, did a few spells. But at the same time I was doing
• 21:43
  that, I did have like an altar, like a Pagan, proper Pagan altar
• 21:46
  dedicated to a God inside of my apartment.
• 21:49
  But I was still exploring with the magic on the side of course.
• 21:55
  OK, when did you discover the the form of magic or the form of
• 22:04
  divination that we're going to be talking about today?
• 22:08
  Scrying. Well I've been aware of it for
• 22:13
  some time but I haven't really engaged in it until I started
• 22:16
  working my current program and it's relatively new.
• 22:20
  But I have noticed that it's very similar to things like
• 22:24
  shamanic journeying, which I have some experiences and like,
• 22:28
  I don't know if you want to call it shamanic journeying, but
• 22:30
  those sort of like meditation practices, it's a very similar
• 22:33
  process. So there's a sense in which I've
• 22:35
  been doing it for a while and I just didn't know what to call
• 22:37
  it. And so for for the sake of
• 22:43
  'cause I was like, you know, I might know what you're talking
• 22:45
  about. Obviously, you know what you're
• 22:46
  talking about. For the sake of my audience or
• 22:49
  even maybe some of yours, 'cause I'm sure you're going to have
• 22:51
  some folks that watch this or listen to this episode as well
• 22:55
  as my audience too. When we're talking about
• 22:58
  scrying, you've talked about shamanic journeying.
• 23:02
  What are, what are, what are we talking about?
• 23:04
  Can you give us a, a description or definition of these types of
• 23:08
  things for the audience to sink their teeth into?
• 23:12
  As as far as you're aware of, yeah.
• 23:14
  I don't like definitions myself. The experience, the how do I put
• 23:20
  this? The experience is going into
• 23:23
  what occultists sometimes call the imaginal, what other people
• 23:26
  call the astral and some people might call the spirit world.
• 23:30
  You're going into that and you're going on a journey and in
• 23:34
  a lot of ways it's not really up to you what happens.
• 23:37
  I'm sure you've had the similar experiences.
• 23:38
  Shamanic journeying, everyone's done the classic find your Filia
• 23:45
  sitting in a field, the woods are in front of you.
• 23:47
  You sit and wait for an animal to approach you.
• 23:49
  It's that. That's all it is.
• 23:52
  We just try to aim it sometimes while scrying.
• 23:56
  OK. And thank you for bringing that
• 24:02
  up for the people. What are we talking about when
• 24:05
  we're talking about scrying? What are we, what are, what are,
• 24:07
  what is our equipment? What are the things that we need
• 24:10
  for scrying to work? Depends on the type of scrying.
• 24:17
  Potentially nothing. Everyone's familiar with the
• 24:20
  well. Maybe not everyone.
• 24:21
  Maybe people who are old like us, everyone's familiar with the
• 24:23
  swami with the crystal ball, gazing into it.
• 24:28
  That's one type of scrying. Another type of scrying might be
• 24:31
  looking into a fire and seeing what comes through fire.
• 24:33
  Some people use smoke and they look into the smoke and see
• 24:37
  messages in the smoke. Other people like myself, might
• 24:39
  just close their eyes and go into the imaginal.
• 24:43
  That's another type of scrying. That's more of, I guess, like a
• 24:46
  Golden Dawn ceremonial magic kind of scrying.
• 24:49
  At least that's the only place I've seen it.
• 24:51
  It might come from elsewhere, I'm not sure, and that's what I
• 24:54
  do. OK.
• 24:58
  And is is your is your, does your scrying involve only one
• 25:04
  substance? So you mentioned closing your
• 25:07
  eyes, Smoke, fire, a crystal ball, any sort of thing like
• 25:11
  this. I mean, those are just some
• 25:13
  physical items or physical representations.
• 25:15
  Do you have a preferred method? Like do you have an item?
• 25:19
  Do you have smoke, fire, or you do you just use nothing?
• 25:21
  Like can you talk a bit more about that?
• 25:24
  I prefer myself to use nothing. That said, I do like to go into
• 25:30
  the dark when I do it. There's something about, and
• 25:33
  this is really old, like going into the dark, like old sages
• 25:36
  back in the day would like go into caves for potentially
• 25:38
  months on end to have these sorts of experiences.
• 25:41
  So I obviously can't do that now.
• 25:44
  I have a job, you know, I have a Muggle life.
• 25:46
  And so I will on my weekends, I'll I'll get up in the middle
• 25:50
  of the night and I will do these sort of scrying sessions at
• 25:53
  night. The it's interesting that you
• 26:00
  meant different cultures and, and being in the dark.
• 26:02
  I the one of the first things that I'm that I thought of when
• 26:05
  you mentioned that is Utah Seta. It's sitting out in the dark.
• 26:12
  Not necessarily. It could be like out of mound, a
• 26:14
  mancestral mound, but it Utah Seta literally means sitting
• 26:18
  out. You're sitting outside and
• 26:20
  you're sitting in the dark and you're exposing yourself to that
• 26:24
  unseen, unknown kind of abyss. Umm, So that's the first thing
• 26:32
  that made it made me think of when you said, uh, scrying and
• 26:36
  that sometimes you just, you know, you can just close your
• 26:38
  eyes or, or just be in the dark and it can be as effective as
• 26:42
  having, uh, something to look into.
• 26:45
  Umm, so anyway, I didn't know. I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 26:49
  That was just my I had that thing that made me think of it.
• 26:56
  But you've you've you've recently on your podcast, the
• 27:00
  the heretical heathen you you've got some episodes out already, I
• 27:04
  think 3 now about scrying or well, you, you had the the first
• 27:10
  episode that I listened to was scrying and and you had Feihu as
• 27:14
  a rune accompanying that that episode.
• 27:17
  Are you, are you exploring the use of scrying and runic gaulder
• 27:23
  or runic divination in like combining the two practices or
• 27:28
  what? What's your like?
• 27:29
  What are you into with with these types of things?
• 27:35
  Good question, Jesse. Alright, so how do I word this?
• 27:40
  I think a good way to word it might be saying I'm scrying the
• 27:43
  runic realms, and that's just a, for lack of a better
• 27:47
  description. And so I, I start my whole
• 27:50
  process and then I got this again.
• 27:52
  This is from the Golden Dawn. They do this with tarot cards
• 27:55
  where they will pick a tarot card and they will picture the
• 27:58
  tarot card in the imaginal, blow it up and treat it like a
• 28:02
  doorway. And they'll walk into the tarot
• 28:04
  card and sort of explore the realm of that particular card.
• 28:08
  I'm doing that same process with the runes.
• 28:12
  I'm taking a rune, I'm blowing it up, and then I'm walking
• 28:15
  through the door and I'm seeing what comes up.
• 28:18
  Did that answer your question all right?
• 28:23
  Yeah, no, yeah, it's I'm interested.
• 28:26
  Yeah, yeah. Please explain.
• 28:28
  Yeah, talk, talk more about that.
• 28:29
  I'm interested to. Hear that?
• 28:31
  That sounds almost more like a shamanic journey, correct?
• 28:34
  You know, if I had to give a let give a description to somebody,
• 28:40
  these would these might be some of the things that I used to
• 28:42
  describe it with. Sure.
• 28:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, OK, so you, so you did Fahu.
• 28:52
  Obviously you have a, this is kind of like the where I became
• 28:55
  familiar with this cause to be honest, you know, I've not come
• 29:01
  across any specific type of divination practices amongst the
• 29:07
  Germanic people aside from, you know, you get into like the
• 29:10
  later sources, you know, the, the, the satyr, the, the
• 29:13
  practices of satyr amongst the, the Norse.
• 29:17
  So you have, you know, safe Kona, safe mother.
• 29:19
  You know, the, the say their women, the say their men.
• 29:24
  And that it was likely that there were altered states of
• 29:27
  consciousness as in in their ceremonies, which is what it
• 29:31
  sounds like scrying can potentially be, right?
• 29:34
  Scrying can be an A mind altering or a consciousness
• 29:37
  altering experience, right? Correct.
• 29:42
  OK. And sometimes you might use
• 29:45
  substances to get you there. I don't.
• 29:48
  I will use mugwort at most. OK, what do you do?
• 29:52
  Like just burn it and breathe in the smoke Or do you drink it as
• 29:55
  a tea or? A bit of a bit of B.
• 29:59
  Just eat it you can. You can smoke it too, I've
• 30:02
  smoked it a few times. Yeah, Oh, it's a great I've I've
• 30:05
  had it in, I've had it in a like a Kinakinak blend, like a
• 30:13
  indigenous tobacco and herb blend.
• 30:16
  Cool where where Mugwarts incorporate in it.
• 30:19
  And yeah, it's I love burning it.
• 30:22
  I love burning the the the the dried leaves that you know.
• 30:27
  Yeah, yeah, you went to Blue Lotus too.
• 30:30
  Yeah, you know what? I've never I've.
• 30:32
  So I have smoked a little bit of it, but not enough of it to.
• 30:37
  I mean, I slept really great. That's about it.
• 30:39
  But I didn't get the the, the the things that they say come
• 30:43
  along with it that that, you know, lucid dreaming.
• 30:47
  Yeah, kind of a thing. But I have it's it's very nice.
• 30:51
  I enjoyed it. The time that I had it, it was
• 30:54
  really mellow and, but yeah, that was interesting to think
• 30:59
  about for me. It was like, you know, thinking
• 31:01
  about the forms of divination that we know of that in, you
• 31:05
  know, the, the Germanic people, very little, if anything is, is
• 31:09
  meant documented in those old sources as to what they did or
• 31:12
  how they did it. Like I mentioned, they, there
• 31:14
  was, you know, the sather, uh, the, uh, and then it really,
• 31:20
  like, I don't think the only other thing that gets mentioned
• 31:23
  as far as is Tacitus where he says like, yes, the, the
• 31:27
  Germanic people held a high regard for divination.
• 31:30
  And there's what they did. They cut branches from fruit
• 31:33
  bearing trees, they carved marks into them.
• 31:35
  And then they, the priest or the father, whoever cast them on a
• 31:38
  white cloth and they, they pray to the gods 1st and they write
• 31:42
  them, right? So there's there's some sort of
• 31:43
  casting of lots or casting of something that we know of that
• 31:47
  the Germanic people did, but these other techniques that have
• 31:51
  been used in other cultures doesn't get mentioned as them
• 31:55
  ever using it. However, you're finding a place
• 31:58
  in your practices that would you like to talk about how that's
• 32:03
  worked, the benefits, the challenges?
• 32:05
  You know, how's that going for you with weaving in this method
• 32:09
  of of consultation or divination with within, you know, a heathen
• 32:15
  mindset, looking at the runes and then speaking the runes that
• 32:18
  way. Yeah, the magic is really
• 32:22
  interesting and it's certainly, it's not a path that I would
• 32:25
  recommend, especially for the average heathen.
• 32:29
  As far as the benefits go, it's it's a bit odd, right?
• 32:34
  You might start this magical journey with something like
• 32:37
  sigils and you're drawing little squiggles on paper and next
• 32:40
  thing you know, within a year you're like moving and you're
• 32:43
  married. So like this one tiny little
• 32:45
  practice has a giant snowball effect on your life.
• 32:50
  Some of the other benefits I've noticed that dreams have gotten
• 32:55
  weirder. Life seems to be a bit more odd.
• 32:59
  There's more synchronicities than there were before, you can
• 33:02
  feel some subtle energy shifts that I didn't notice before, and
• 33:07
  the dreams are bonkers sometimes.
• 33:14
  These are all, umm, these are all experiences that would you
• 33:18
  say. Would you say that these
• 33:19
  experiences 'cause you mentioned, umm, things just
• 33:25
  being weirder, you know what I mean?
• 33:27
  Or the the synchronicity of things being like.
• 33:29
  Yes. The the the timing of it all
• 33:32
  seems to be too perfect, right? Not coincidental.
• 33:35
  Do you think that the situations themselves have changed or do
• 33:45
  you think that your awareness to situations has changed as a
• 33:51
  result? That's a good question, yeah.
• 33:55
  Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure.
• 33:58
  Am I just noticing things or are things actually, let's say,
• 34:02
  objectively changing? That's a good question.
• 34:04
  Yeah, I think about this a lot of times too, man, because I'm
• 34:08
  like, man, for me, having been, you know, the age that I am,
• 34:11
  I'll be 42 this year. And when I reflect on different
• 34:17
  points in my life, I'm going the things that I'm aware of now had
• 34:22
  to have been there. They just weren't ready.
• 34:25
  I was, I wasn't ready for them. They wasn't ready for me, right.
• 34:28
  The timing of it wasn't. So I had to go through what I
• 34:31
  had to go through. But the the thing itself has
• 34:34
  probably always been there. It's just that I wasn't ready at
• 34:37
  the time to be for it to be of any use.
• 34:42
  At least that's how I kind of look at it.
• 34:43
  So I was just curious if if you had a sense of, of those things
• 34:47
  yet, you know, as you've come to this place with your practices
• 34:50
  of being more connected and, and adopting these divinatory works,
• 34:56
  you know, has it, has it shed a light on anything that I just
• 34:59
  mentioned if it's been always there, I just never noticed it
• 35:02
  or these are just whole new things coming into, into being,
• 35:05
  you know? Yeah, yeah, one of the first
• 35:08
  spells I did and was rather serious, it caused what we
• 35:12
  sometimes call a sink storm. So for about a week you would
• 35:17
  think of something and then immediately see it and it felt
• 35:20
  like something was watching with you and just fucking with you
• 35:24
  for like a week. Like there was like a Loki in
• 35:25
  presence on your life. For a week you could think of
• 35:28
  like clowns juggling bowling pins and walk around the corner
• 35:31
  and see a mural of clowns juggling bowling pins and you're
• 35:34
  like, what the fuck happening? And that happened for a week
• 35:37
  straight. I felt like I went schizophrenic
• 35:39
  for a week and then it stopped. The question is, did I know
• 35:44
  those things were there ahead of time and I was just paying
• 35:47
  attention for the first time? Who knows?
• 35:50
  Yeah, yeah. Now, now it reminds me of this.
• 35:54
  Like, you know, we talked about, we've talked about it on this
• 35:58
  show with other guests and myself including, you know, we
• 36:01
  talked earlier about these altered states of consciousness
• 36:04
  and how, you know, with the scrying thing.
• 36:06
  Like sometimes, like you mentioned that substances,
• 36:09
  external substances can be used or, or employed in the scrying
• 36:15
  practice to I guess maybe accelerate leave out of or, or
• 36:20
  or enhance it in some sort of way, right.
• 36:25
  But yeah, no, the point of it being is like, I've had my own
• 36:30
  experiences on different medicines.
• 36:32
  I've I've been under the influence of certain medicines
• 36:35
  that and I only call them medicine because that's, you
• 36:37
  know, they're not synthetic. They're not, you know, lab
• 36:40
  created. These are, these are gifts from,
• 36:43
  from our mother. And so like I, you know, I've,
• 36:47
  I've been on those moments and, or been at those times where I'm
• 36:50
  looking around and I'm going. So this is the way it's always
• 36:55
  been. This is the way it always is.
• 36:56
  And I just can't see it most of the time.
• 37:00
  Yeah, yeah. You know, like it's, it's, it's
• 37:02
  like coming to that awareness of, OK, everything is going on
• 37:06
  around me. The way it goes on around me.
• 37:07
  I just, I don't get to see it in its true beauty.
• 37:10
  But every so often, you know, and it kind of makes you go,
• 37:16
  man, what happened to us, right? What happened to to humanity
• 37:20
  that caused us to be blind of that beauty all the time?
• 37:25
  Yeah, and a lot of sort of indigenous cultures, too.
• 37:29
  They'll tell you that, like the plants speak to them.
• 37:32
  And I've had those experiences now, but I don't get to have
• 37:35
  them all the time. It's like there's a filter
• 37:37
  that's stopping me from having those experiences until I get
• 37:40
  into some altered state. Yeah, but you know what else
• 37:43
  too, though, man, is like once you have, once you've gotten
• 37:47
  through that, like once you've broken past that, that initial
• 37:52
  barrier, you know what I mean? Like once once your proverbial
• 37:54
  cherry's been popped, coming back to that place or, or be
• 38:01
  like, OK, I mean, I, I remember your voice.
• 38:04
  I remember how you sounded. You know what I mean?
• 38:07
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:08
  It's it's a it's a distant memory that helps guide us back
• 38:12
  to that place or to that, you know what I mean?
• 38:15
  To that that state, if you will, at least, Yeah.
• 38:18
  Like maybe you're maybe you're going for a hike and you're
• 38:21
  walking by like a tree and you suddenly think, why are you
• 38:24
  angry? Like, why is this tree mad at
• 38:26
  me? Yeah.
• 38:27
  You flirt with me again over there.
• 38:28
  You you dirty. Yeah, you know, like.
• 38:31
  Like it sounds crazy, but for the few of us who've gone there,
• 38:33
  I know exactly what you mean. Dude, man, they're hussies, them
• 38:36
  birches, I'll tell you what. So it sounds like you've you've
• 38:45
  had as long or longer of an experience with it, with with
• 38:50
  general paganism, the occult, ceremonial magic, even you had
• 38:54
  as long or longer time with that then you have within quote UN
• 38:58
  quote Heathenry. So you talked like we talked.
• 39:04
  I asked you earlier, Heathen, you said, well, define that.
• 39:07
  You obviously have heritage that is associated with that part of
• 39:13
  of the continent. You know, the Germanic lands
• 39:15
  where, where Heathenry has come. Because when we typically, when
• 39:17
  people say Heathenry, it's, it's generally referring to the, the
• 39:22
  Nordic or Germanic Pagan beliefs.
• 39:28
  But seeing as you had prior experiences and you had, you
• 39:33
  know, the ceremonial magic, especially the occult and all
• 39:37
  that was a was a part of your life before, how has how have
• 39:41
  those things become woven into or integrated into your heathen
• 39:49
  world? Views of things once you found
• 39:51
  Heathenry and once you started finding is like a place of home
• 39:54
  for you. Or if, and if I'm
• 39:57
  misrepresenting it, please correct me.
• 39:59
  But it's from what it sounded like, you know, you, you, you
• 40:01
  came to, you done all these things, you found Heathenry and
• 40:03
  that's kind of been generally where you're at and where you're
• 40:07
  currently at since then. Yeah.
• 40:10
  So, so yeah. So if, if, if that's all
• 40:12
  accurate and if I'm, if I'm framing it out accurately, how
• 40:15
  has how has your previous experiences within the, you
• 40:18
  know, the occult and ceremony magic help kind of become
• 40:21
  integrated or inform your heathen worldview on things?
• 40:26
  It's a good question. I guess this may be a little
• 40:29
  like chaos magicky and whatever that means.
• 40:33
  But I kind of look at some of these occult practices in the
• 40:36
  same way that maybe other people might look at indigenous
• 40:39
  practices where I'm seeing them as a sort of technology in which
• 40:45
  we can commune with the gods, right?
• 40:49
  So rather than doing just a blow where I pour meat from a horn
• 40:52
  into a bowl like the Oscar True guys, I could do something like
• 40:56
  a lesser banishing ritual, the pentagram and these other
• 40:59
  rituals in order to commune with the gods.
• 41:02
  And then I've taken some practices from, let's say,
• 41:05
  Hinduism, where they will chant all the names of a particular
• 41:08
  deity. And I will do that with Odin
• 41:10
  like I'm currently doing. I don't do it every day, but I
• 41:13
  am trying. And so like, right, I'll do like
• 41:16
  a banishing practice and I'll chant like all the names of
• 41:18
  Odin. And so I'm taking these
• 41:20
  different technologies from different areas of the occult
• 41:23
  and I guess like religious sphere and trying to bring them
• 41:26
  into a, a practice. And that's what it is, right?
• 41:34
  It's like, it's a practice. I'm practicing communing with
• 41:37
  the gods. Well, especially if I mean it is
• 41:42
  I, I, I like the term practice because whenever I hear whenever
• 41:49
  I hear somebody say I'm practicing something you very
• 41:55
  like, you hear, you hear it in, in certain professions, you
• 42:00
  know, I'm practicing law, I'm practicing medicine, I'm
• 42:04
  practicing my martial arts, I'm practicing my, you know, this or
• 42:08
  that. I'm practicing instruments
• 42:09
  aren't right and it and it indicates to me, at least when I
• 42:13
  hear somebody say that it means that I'm working on this thing
• 42:17
  that I know I'm never going to fully understand.
• 42:21
  Yes, I will never be a you know, I'll never be.
• 42:24
  I'll never figure it all out. I'm always going to be
• 42:26
  practicing. I'm always going to be working
• 42:28
  on it. And I see faith, religion,
• 42:31
  right, spirituality, much the same way.
• 42:35
  We're, we ain't got it figured out and we never will in, in our
• 42:40
  present form. So your practices, Robert, you
• 42:44
  know what I mean? Like you've got a hearth cult.
• 42:45
  And, and this is a thing that I've talked on my show dozens of
• 42:49
  times about people figuring out what is your, what is your
• 42:53
  hearth cult? Because that's what our
• 42:56
  ancestors had. They had their own individual
• 42:58
  cultic practices. And what this family did might
• 43:00
  be different than what that family did.
• 43:02
  And even within this certain region, what they did was maybe
• 43:05
  a little bit different than what that other region did.
• 43:08
  So what is your cultic practice? What are your heart cult
• 43:11
  practices look like? And it's so cool to hear about
• 43:15
  yours, Robert. Man, 'cause that gives other
• 43:18
  people an idea of if, if somebody were thinking that I
• 43:22
  shouldn't do this because it will make the gods mad or it'll
• 43:28
  upset the gods. Have you like, is that
• 43:30
  something? Have you ever felt that or heard
• 43:31
  that where people like, well, I can't blend this or I can't
• 43:34
  blend that because it'll piss the gods off?
• 43:37
  Yeah, heathen reads a strange sphere where people are like, I
• 43:40
  have to role play like I'm a fucking Norseman from like
• 43:44
  thousands of years ago and if I do anything outside of that the
• 43:47
  gods will be mad. Like dog, it's 2026.
• 43:51
  They're not. They're not going to expect you
• 43:52
  to act like a Norseman, like we're modern people in a modern
• 43:55
  world. You have to adjust the practices
• 43:57
  to fit your lifestyle. This is so silly.
• 44:00
  I don't get why heathens are stuck in this mindset.
• 44:03
  Of that you might piss the gods off.
• 44:05
  You mean like that mindset of? Yeah, unless you're, like, doing
• 44:09
  something specific that you read and like, Saxo Grammaticus,
• 44:14
  like, you don't have to stick to that format.
• 44:16
  Like, are you a farmer? Why are you worried about, like,
• 44:20
  sacrificing animals if you're not a farmer?
• 44:22
  I don't have access to cattle. Doesn't really make sense.
• 44:25
  So I adjust the practice to my modern times.
• 44:27
  And I don't think the gods, whatever they may be, really
• 44:31
  care about how I'm doing it. There is, there's a, there's a
• 44:39
  conversation about that, that I've cause I've taken it from
• 44:42
  two different angles, right. Yeah, I've looked at the whole
• 44:46
  idea of why are reconstructionist heathens?
• 44:50
  Why are the historical reconstruction so adamant and so
• 44:53
  vehement at times about the historical ways of doing things
• 44:59
  right, keeping as true to the historical parts?
• 45:02
  And I, I understand, I think to the extent that when we talk
• 45:07
  about tradition or traditions, you know, the only way that
• 45:13
  traditions are maintained or preserved is by doing them the
• 45:18
  way that they've always been done.
• 45:20
  And so I think that my personal opinion is that, you know, the,
• 45:26
  the aim or the effort to reclaim our traditions because so, so
• 45:31
  much of, of these ways, they, they, they were lost in Europe,
• 45:34
  they, they stopped being done, they were outlawed by and large
• 45:38
  at least. So what was done, how it was
• 45:40
  done was done very privately and, and not documented.
• 45:43
  So if it got handed down and got passed down, it was by word of
• 45:47
  mouth generations later. And then it finally got into the
• 45:50
  hands of people who could write, who were Christians.
• 45:53
  And so you know all of these things, but the other part of it
• 45:57
  is that OK, sure, yes, you want to maintain and preserve these
• 46:00
  traditions in these these ways, that of the way things were done
• 46:03
  so far as we know, because all we know is what was been written
• 46:06
  down. And if you think that something
• 46:08
  didn't get messed up getting written down on a pencil and try
• 46:12
  to write a page of anything without having to erase it
• 46:15
  halfway, you can't do it. So these guys didn't have pencil
• 46:18
  and paper, they had stone. And so you know what I mean?
• 46:21
  Or when they finally did have paper, there weren't no erasers.
• 46:24
  It was, it was a commodity. It was, you know what I mean?
• 46:26
  Like you had to be really careful.
• 46:28
  And I guess my whole thing is like, I understand the, the, the
• 46:34
  importance of knowing our history and knowing where things
• 46:37
  come from. And it's also really important
• 46:42
  to take that information and bring it forth into our modern
• 46:47
  ways that preserve the spirit of the tradition, that preserve the
• 46:50
  fire of it, not the ashes that it has left remaining after it's
• 46:54
  burnt out. This that, that coal, that
• 46:57
  essence, that that core ember, you know what I mean?
• 47:01
  Yeah, so. If you're capable of and can
• 47:05
  safely and ethically and responsibly right, you know,
• 47:08
  have an animal sacrifice and there be that on your land and
• 47:11
  all that's great and well and good.
• 47:13
  That's there's nothing wrong with that by as long as you're
• 47:17
  doing it correctly by terms of modern regulations, modern laws,
• 47:21
  you know what I mean? It can be done legally.
• 47:23
  It can be done sanely, right, if ethically and all that.
• 47:26
  And if you can't, and if you're in an apartment or whatever the
• 47:30
  case may be, guess what? The gods are not going to think
• 47:33
  any less of a person, at least I can't imagine they would.
• 47:36
  They have no reason to think any more or less of a person doing,
• 47:39
  you know, a tea ritual or a, or a, you know, incense or whatever
• 47:44
  other thing that's a sacrifice for them 'cause that's what the
• 47:48
  sacrifice was. It was, this animal is now
• 47:51
  expired and it's gonna be, you know, we're gonna eat it, but
• 47:55
  the blood and everything's gonna go to the gods.
• 47:57
  We're gonna, you know what I mean?
• 47:57
  It's a ceremonial giving up of something that was gonna be
• 48:01
  beneficial. Yeah, it's also partaking in
• 48:04
  creation. Yeah, Yeah, you're, you're
• 48:08
  taking a unity and making multiplicity, which is exactly
• 48:11
  what the gods do. Right, Yeah.
• 48:18
  So, so you say you are obviously in Wisconsin.
• 48:22
  You you I think you said you like an apartment or something
• 48:24
  living, right. So scrying if if people are more
• 48:26
  interested in into looking into this, where should they start
• 48:31
  with scrying? Like how does this how does this
• 48:34
  come become a how can this become a practice?
• 48:36
  What can they do to start integrating this into their
• 48:39
  practices if it's if it's something that appeals to them
• 48:41
  from what they're hearing here today?
• 48:44
  I would say experiment. Some people seem to be very good
• 48:49
  at getting images by staring into fire, others by smoke.
• 48:53
  Some people the classic Victorian style Black Mirror
• 48:56
  works well for them. For people like me, just sitting
• 48:59
  in the dark and closing your eyes and stepping into that
• 49:02
  imaginal, that's what works. I mean, if you want like a
• 49:08
  particular resource, like just, yeah, just test any of those
• 49:11
  methods out. I mean, you could get the Golden
• 49:13
  Dawn books and read those. If you're interested, you could
• 49:15
  watch YouTube videos. There's a lot of good
• 49:17
  information out there these days.
• 49:18
  We're really blessed with the amount of information just
• 49:20
  freely available. Well, that's the thing too, is I
• 49:26
  like to have some like when somebody's that I can talk to
• 49:29
  who's got, you know, real experience with something of,
• 49:33
  yeah, the Internet is great, right?
• 49:34
  We have these resources available.
• 49:36
  And I, I, I warn people against this too, with, with Heath and
• 49:40
  me, like, yeah, sure. Don't, don't not read somebody's
• 49:43
  material because of who they are, what they've been
• 49:47
  associated with. But be aware that not everything
• 49:50
  you read is right. Not everything you read is
• 49:53
  correct. Not everything you read is
• 49:54
  accurate. So I didn't want to even
• 49:57
  necessarily think like, oh man, you know, people are out here
• 49:59
  saying that, you know, you can, you know, but you know, slap a
• 50:03
  slap a plate of mayonnaise and ketchup and scry that and, and
• 50:08
  you know what I mean? Like it could, I don't know.
• 50:10
  Maybe I mean really. You think so?
• 50:12
  You think you could? I'm not sure.
• 50:15
  Rangs and. Some and some Hellman's.
• 50:16
  Man, you think you could 1. Of the earliest method.
• 50:21
  Is like a a. Water bowl of like a black water
• 50:24
  bowl with oil on top. Like, who knows what would
• 50:26
  actually work for people? OK, so, OK, so.
• 50:29
  Water is another one too. I didn't yeah, yeah, mention
• 50:32
  that. Oh, dude, that's really
• 50:34
  interesting because what was it? April, March was last month or
• 50:44
  two. I was I was part of a like a
• 50:49
  group activity. And that group.
• 50:54
  Activity was to wait until it's dark, so night or obviously
• 51:00
  early in the morning before the sun comes up, or wait till after
• 51:02
  the sun goes down at night and get a bowl or a cup or you know,
• 51:09
  whatever you can that can contain water in it and sit in
• 51:13
  the dark. Light some candles in front so
• 51:16
  you have just the candlelight and just stare in the water for
• 51:20
  15 minutes. Yep, look at your reflection.
• 51:24
  And don't. Just look at your reflection.
• 51:26
  Look at what is happening in your reflection.
• 51:30
  Look beyond your reflection. Face your reflection and
• 51:35
  everything that comes through that And man, for 15 minutes
• 51:43
  things can change a whole lot yeah and while you're.
• 51:46
  Doing that, what's really important?
• 51:48
  Is you will find if you're paying attention and you turn
• 51:51
  the light around, you will find there are images popping up in
• 51:55
  the imaginal and you have to face those images.
• 51:58
  Those are things coming to the forefront.
• 52:00
  And by face them, I mean like you have to look at them.
• 52:02
  Obviously pay attention. Your psyche is always giving you
• 52:05
  things to look at and you're ignoring it all the time.
• 52:08
  And then spend some time with the journal and write that down.
• 52:12
  You might find that let's say you're having a a day where
• 52:15
  you're just a hot head. And if you turn the light around
• 52:18
  and you look inside, you might find like a figure that looks
• 52:22
  like a serter, like a like a son of musical high might be in your
• 52:25
  head. And that image has been there
• 52:28
  all day. And in some sense, it's
• 52:29
  controlling you. And you've never turned the
• 52:31
  light around. You've never looked at it,
• 52:34
  you've never acknowledged it. And so these are some of the
• 52:36
  lessons you'll learn while scrying.
• 52:38
  Like, look at those things, write them down, face them, see
• 52:41
  what they have to say, watch how they move.
• 52:48
  Do you do? You view.
• 52:51
  Scrying. As something of like a, you
• 52:55
  know, it's, it's more psychological or it's more
• 53:00
  spiritual or maybe a blend of both.
• 53:02
  Like do you have like, what do you, what do you think it as?
• 53:05
  What do you perceive it as being?
• 53:08
  Oh. Good question, SO.
• 53:09
  I lean towards like platonism and like idealism, so I think
• 53:14
  that mind is fundamental. I don't really understand why we
• 53:18
  separate the psychological from the not psychological.
• 53:22
  That seems like a rather arbitrary distinction to me.
• 53:25
  Everything is psychological. You never get outside the
• 53:27
  psyche, you never get outside consciousness.
• 53:30
  Everything is mediated through consciousness.
• 53:33
  So I'll use psychological language if that helps people
• 53:37
  understand what I'm talking about, but I don't adhere to it
• 53:42
  right? The I mean so.
• 53:45
  We say. Psychological and then in the
• 53:48
  same sentence I say spiritual and then I think about that and
• 53:52
  the paradox or not even paradox, but it's like you can't, you
• 53:56
  can't include the psyche without including spirit because psyche
• 53:59
  is more than just your mind. I mean, it's yes, mind is, is,
• 54:05
  is all in there. But like, I don't know, man, I
• 54:08
  can't, it's hard for me to like, where do you, where do you put
• 54:10
  spirit? Then you can't put it in your
• 54:13
  just one place, not just your mind, not just your heart.
• 54:16
  It's, it's, it's, it's it's own thing, but it's an, it's, it
• 54:19
  encompasses all those things. Yeah.
• 54:22
  And and us moderns forget. That, like psyche, comes from
• 54:25
  the Greek. It means soul.
• 54:28
  It doesn't mean. It doesn't mean brain.
• 54:30
  Inside of a monkey skull. That's not what it means, right?
• 54:33
  Yeah, like. I do.
• 54:34
  I don't remember my Greek much, but I know like, yeah, like it
• 54:38
  it, it comes from the, I don't know, the psychos or, I don't
• 54:41
  know something Cyclops. No, that's a different thing.
• 54:47
  The psychotic Cyclops. But what?
• 54:53
  What do you? Think like scrying.
• 54:56
  The differences between 'cause I mean, OK, we're talking about
• 54:58
  what we talk, you know, looking into something or closing our
• 55:01
  eyes even. And then you said going into
• 55:04
  that, I believe you said liminal, liminous.
• 55:07
  I'm imaginals. Like word imaginals, yeah.
• 55:10
  So so. What makes scrying different for
• 55:12
  the novice, or for the ones that maybe haven't been familiar with
• 55:15
  or know this? What makes that any different
• 55:17
  than just say, you know, daydreaming or imagining
• 55:20
  yourself somewhere that you're not and just going on a little
• 55:23
  mental vacation? Good question and.
• 55:29
  I'm not sure they are different. I think they're the same thing.
• 55:34
  Yeah, I think. We have 1 foot, let's say.
• 55:38
  In the physical and 1 foot in the spiritual and we just don't
• 55:40
  notice it. Whereas when we sit down and
• 55:43
  scry, we're focusing on that particular aspect of, let's say,
• 55:47
  our being or whatever. It's a very.
• 55:50
  Similar process. It's like the shamanic.
• 55:51
  Journeying, sure, you can put on your shaman gear and beat your
• 55:55
  drum and go into the liminal. Is that really different than
• 55:58
  daydreaming? It seems like it's kind of
• 56:00
  daydreaming with some extra accoutrements with some extra
• 56:05
  clothes on, but it seems like the same thing to me.
• 56:09
  Maybe I'm wrong about that, I'm not sure I have to think about.
• 56:12
  It more I yeah, I mean, I. Guess it's, It's kind of like a
• 56:17
  I was, I was asking it just to hear what you're thinking and to
• 56:19
  hear you say like you don't really see that much of a
• 56:21
  difference. I can't, I can't imagine that
• 56:23
  that come that that answer comes from a place anywhere other than
• 56:27
  experience. Yeah, yeah.
• 56:30
  Which is very. You could say it's.
• 56:32
  More focused. OK.
• 56:35
  Maybe because, you know, I mean. I think everybody.
• 56:37
  That anybody that listens to a podcast could probably, almost
• 56:42
  assuredly every person that listens to this episode can say
• 56:46
  that they've daydreamed at least once in their life.
• 56:50
  I'm not 100% sure and I wouldn't.
• 56:53
  I wouldn't bet that even half of this audience can say that
• 56:57
  they've scried or done scrying. Because I feel like the the
• 57:01
  differentiation is between something mythical or mystical
• 57:05
  and something that requires some focus and attention.
• 57:08
  Whereas the other is like, I can just kick my feet up in the
• 57:14
  middle of the afternoon and go somewhere and it not be like,
• 57:17
  not a very ceremonial thing, not a very formal thing.
• 57:20
  Scrying sounds like, oh, I got to be in the right space at the
• 57:23
  right time and do the right things in order to start the
• 57:26
  process. Yeah, there's more pomp and
• 57:29
  circumstance. For sure, yeah, but from what
• 57:32
  you were. Saying is like you've, you've,
• 57:35
  you, you maybe didn't have quite that level of preparation or
• 57:40
  that level of establishing the space before doing it, 'cause
• 57:45
  you, you. No, I do.
• 57:46
  I mean, there are things that I do.
• 57:48
  Oh, gotcha. OK, gotcha.
• 57:49
  I don't know if they're necessarily needed.
• 57:52
  Well, Butte, you do it. Because you know that.
• 57:54
  It's worked before, so why change it?
• 57:55
  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah. Hey, this is.
• 57:57
  Proven I, I know. This works, so might as well if
• 58:01
  it ain't broke. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 58:04
  Down to wearing like like an iron monitor cause iron keeps
• 58:08
  bad spirits away right? Like just that seems to work for
• 58:11
  me when I'm in those spaces, so I do it OK.
• 58:14
  And and do you think that people in general naturally.
• 58:19
  Possess. You know, like these visionary,
• 58:25
  like these, like modern, I don't know, visionary capabilities.
• 58:29
  Maybe that's not modern is not the right word, but the
• 58:32
  visionary capability. You think that everybody
• 58:34
  inherently possesses these visionary capabilities to do the
• 58:38
  scrying, to get into these altered states?
• 58:42
  Or do you think that that's something that needs to be
• 58:46
  taught, inherited, maybe both. Oh.
• 58:50
  Good question, SO. Not everyone can do it.
• 58:52
  My wife has a Fantasia. She can't picture things.
• 58:57
  I mean, maybe she could with some practice, but as far as we
• 58:59
  know, she can't imagine things in her head.
• 59:01
  So she is out. She can't do this for the rest
• 59:05
  of us normal people. She's gonna kill me.
• 59:09
  For those of us normal people, we can do it.
• 59:12
  But I kind of think the ability is like a like a dimmer switch,
• 59:15
  right? Like most abilities, like some
• 59:17
  people the light is very bright and other people the light is
• 59:20
  very dim. So some people seem to be more
• 59:25
  proficient at it. Like maybe there's something
• 59:27
  running in my family line, specifically on my mother's side
• 59:31
  that allows me this ability in a way that like maybe people on my
• 59:35
  father's side don't have. I'm I'm not quite sure, but I
• 59:38
  think most people have some kind of ability to do it.
• 59:46
  With with. With regards to that you, you
• 59:48
  because you didn't mention this earlier on that this, this
• 59:52
  ability or this gift was inherited, right?
• 59:57
  It runs in your family and it sounds like it's a maternal
• 1:00:00
  gift. Potentially, yes.
• 1:00:03
  Yeah, 'cause you mentioned. Or maybe that was just a, a
• 1:00:06
  coincidence that you mentioned it just now when you're talking
• 1:00:09
  about, you know, your mother's side versus your father's side.
• 1:00:11
  Do you know on which side of your like, is it your mom's or
• 1:00:14
  your dad's side with with whom your ancestors have this, this,
• 1:00:19
  this apparent gift of clairvoyancy or whatever you
• 1:00:23
  want to call it? So it's not.
• 1:00:25
  Something we really talked. About but my mom has had several
• 1:00:30
  spooky things happen in her life, and she hears and sees
• 1:00:32
  people that aren't there. When she lays down at night, she
• 1:00:35
  can close her eyes and like blast off to another dimension
• 1:00:38
  sober. And so can I.
• 1:00:40
  I don't know if the men in my family, besides me of course,
• 1:00:44
  are capable of doing this. They don't seem to be, or at
• 1:00:48
  least they don't talk about it, but my brother's kid, my
• 1:00:52
  brother's kid, my niece also seems to have this sort of
• 1:00:54
  ability too. So there's something going on
• 1:00:56
  with the the females in our family.
• 1:00:59
  Wow. Are you OK with?
• 1:01:03
  Talking a little bit about these scrying experiences that you've
• 1:01:09
  that you've encountered. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:01:12
  Man, Should I get my notes? I mean.
• 1:01:16
  If you want to, it's it's cool. I mean, I was just gonna it's,
• 1:01:19
  it's whatever you want to do, man.
• 1:01:20
  Yeah, for sure, 'cause I mean, I'm, I'm just, I'm intrigued
• 1:01:23
  about it and I'm sure others want might be as well 'cause
• 1:01:29
  like with most things like I. I record them and then I kind of
• 1:01:32
  forget about them. Like a dream, you.
• 1:01:35
  Know I hate that right when you have this.
• 1:01:37
  Like vivid dream that and then you wake up and it's like every
• 1:01:40
  second that passes, details just float away.
• 1:01:44
  It's like, no, no. They're like that, yeah.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah. Well, what I was going to ask
• 1:01:50
  you. Is it sounds like you've got
• 1:01:55
  some experience with, with with scrying and and you know what to
• 1:01:59
  do, how to do it, what works for you.
• 1:02:03
  But you know that now because you've done it however many
• 1:02:08
  times up to now. So you have what we would call
• 1:02:11
  experience, right? Yeah, so.
• 1:02:15
  When you didn't. Have experience, You were a
• 1:02:17
  novice, you were a beginner, right?
• 1:02:19
  You were just getting into this. And as we do, as we get better
• 1:02:23
  at things, right from a, from a beginner to A to a an expert, we
• 1:02:27
  mess up along the way. We make mistakes.
• 1:02:29
  We learn things that help us improve our craft.
• 1:02:34
  Are there anything? Or, or have you experienced
• 1:02:37
  anything or, you know, mistakes perhaps that that beginners
• 1:02:41
  might encounter when attempting scrying for the first time?
• 1:02:45
  And, and what might you offer as a advice for those types of
• 1:02:50
  things, if any? Oh, that's, that's a great.
• 1:02:53
  Question, Jesse. Well, as I mentioned earlier, I
• 1:02:56
  have tried it with and without wearing iron and without iron.
• 1:03:00
  I have had some interesting encounters.
• 1:03:03
  When you go into whatever the imaginal is, you do meet things.
• 1:03:08
  Let's call them spirits. You meet spirits and you can't
• 1:03:12
  trust all of them, and that's very important.
• 1:03:14
  So part of the wearing iron is to keep those things away.
• 1:03:17
  There are other things you can do to test these spirits to see
• 1:03:21
  if they are good or not, if they're friendly, if they're
• 1:03:25
  meant to be your guide. I think I mentioned this in a
• 1:03:28
  couple episodes. Christians might recite passages
• 1:03:32
  from the Bible. There are also sacred symbols
• 1:03:35
  that they could use, and my version is no different.
• 1:03:38
  There are symbols I could use, there are questions I could ask.
• 1:03:41
  You have to test the spirits, like don't trust anything.
• 1:03:44
  You just meet while doing this. That's very important.
• 1:03:47
  And by the way, if it's all psychological, I wouldn't be
• 1:03:49
  saying this 'cause it clearly is not being controlled by me.
• 1:03:53
  Whatever is in that space, it's happening to me, I'm not
• 1:03:57
  creating it. At least it doesn't feel like I
• 1:03:59
  am. So I'd say yeah, be cautious of
• 1:04:03
  anything you see, and maybe wear iron, I don't know.
• 1:04:08
  Track the moon phases too. Maybe that makes a.
• 1:04:10
  Difference. OK, what, what, what, what could
• 1:04:19
  you say? Like, could you give us?
• 1:04:21
  And again, I don't like to pry into people's personal practices
• 1:04:25
  and, and extract any details that they're not willing to
• 1:04:28
  share. So with that in mind, you can
• 1:04:31
  totally decline this this question.
• 1:04:35
  Have you had a scrying experience that you could share
• 1:04:39
  with the audience that left you feeling terrified?
• 1:04:46
  Yes. I think I.
• 1:04:48
  Just put this out with my Thorisas episode where I am.
• 1:04:55
  Oh, how did I get? There it's.
• 1:04:57
  Like a dream, I went into the space that was all white and I
• 1:05:01
  opened a door and I was in this all black space and a giant orb
• 1:05:05
  sort of showed up and threw me out.
• 1:05:08
  And I tried to go back and the giant orb was in fact a giant
• 1:05:11
  eyeball. And it asked me like, what do
• 1:05:14
  you want, human? And that's never good to hear.
• 1:05:17
  Like it was kind of terrifying. That's.
• 1:05:20
  Probably the most. Concerning one I've had, and
• 1:05:25
  then there's this other one I had recently where so when you
• 1:05:28
  start scrying, I start in like a temple and the temple is mine.
• 1:05:31
  I don't let other things in and my recent scrying with on Zeus,
• 1:05:38
  some being just forced its way in and I don't know what to do
• 1:05:42
  about that. Right.
• 1:05:42
  Like I'm I've been doing this for a little bit, but I don't
• 1:05:45
  know what to do about that. And it was like come with me and
• 1:05:47
  like, Oh, this is supposed to be my sacred space.
• 1:05:50
  How the hell are you getting in here and how do I keep you from
• 1:05:54
  doing that in the future? Those are the most.
• 1:05:57
  I guess like, scary. Experiences I've had.
• 1:06:04
  That's wild that you said that. That.
• 1:06:06
  So on SUS will obviously be the next episode of the Scrying
• 1:06:10
  series because you just did the results.
• 1:06:12
  That'll be the next one. I'll be really keen to listen on
• 1:06:15
  that. So I don't want to spoil
• 1:06:18
  anything but. I don't know.
• 1:06:24
  I don't know anything about. It I have an idea of what that
• 1:06:28
  thing might be that you're talking about, but I'm going to
• 1:06:30
  wait to say anything about it until after I hear the other
• 1:06:33
  side. Yeah.
• 1:06:36
  It's very interesting. I always.
• 1:06:37
  Meet like these same kind of figures and all of them to have
• 1:06:40
  mentioned this where I meet this like Gandalfish figure a lot of
• 1:06:44
  the time and he has communicated to me that that is just an image
• 1:06:49
  that it takes so my consciousness can understand
• 1:06:52
  what I'm looking at yeah I. I don't know why, but that's.
• 1:06:57
  Just what it turns into all the time.
• 1:07:00
  Well, it's a. It what's interesting, right?
• 1:07:02
  Is, you know, you're, you're adopting a practice of altered,
• 1:07:08
  an altered state of consciousness while
• 1:07:12
  simultaneously integrating symbols of cosmological
• 1:07:21
  mysteries. Yeah, Yeah, I like the word
• 1:07:23
  mysteries there. And then, well, that's.
• 1:07:27
  'Cause I mean rune, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:29
  It means mystery. And then and then you're on,
• 1:07:33
  you're on, you're in a place of your sacred space.
• 1:07:35
  And then you summon on Seuss, which is AUS, which means God,
• 1:07:41
  yeah, yeah. And you wonder why.
• 1:07:43
  How did you get into my? Sacred space, bitch.
• 1:07:46
  This is my house. Welcome home.
• 1:07:48
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  You know, that's very much. How it felt so.
• 1:07:53
  Anyway, that's all I'm going to say because I don't know and I
• 1:07:54
  don't want to spoil this 'cause I don't know when that episode's
• 1:07:59
  going to come out and I don't roughly know when this episode's
• 1:08:01
  going to come out. So it might be before or after.
• 1:08:04
  And I don't want to leak anything more.
• 1:08:06
  But that's just that's just where my mind's going with it
• 1:08:08
  just from hearing what you said. I'll throw this out here before
• 1:08:12
  the. Episode drops.
• 1:08:13
  I was also told that the ruins themselves are deities.
• 1:08:20
  Do without what you will. Well, you can't just say.
• 1:08:26
  That Robert and. Be like, do that as you will, as
• 1:08:29
  we're, you know, almost an hour, oh hell, an hour into the show.
• 1:08:33
  But here, here here's. Here's a freaking.
• 1:08:36
  Not even just a. Not even just a a, we call it a,
• 1:08:40
  a mind nugget. Here's a here's a whole buffet
• 1:08:43
  for you to suck down. Figure that out the the room and
• 1:08:48
  that. OK, so see, now I got to stay on
• 1:08:50
  track here because now you got me thinking, all right?
• 1:08:54
  That'll be that'll be another rambling.
• 1:08:55
  For another time, but OK. So.
• 1:09:02
  Do you? See Parallels because.
• 1:09:04
  Obviously we, we've talked about your experience with, you know,
• 1:09:07
  the occult and other beliefs and then you come into Heathenry
• 1:09:12
  and, you know, weaving these practices and these things into
• 1:09:16
  a, to a, to a way of doing things.
• 1:09:18
  But when you look at any. Various variation of this.
• 1:09:23
  So, you know, if in the northern Norse tradition you see, you
• 1:09:26
  know, say there trance work, rune divination, prophetic
• 1:09:31
  visions and the sagas, if you will, like some of the things
• 1:09:34
  that you read about and some of the the stories of somebody
• 1:09:39
  seeing something or hearing something or knowing something.
• 1:09:42
  And do you see that there's parallels across different you?
• 1:09:49
  Talked about earlier about synchronicity.
• 1:09:51
  And and, and how things kind of work themselves into it.
• 1:09:54
  Do you see parallels between these practices called different
• 1:09:58
  things and different cultures? But they're all kind of.
• 1:10:03
  Lining up on. The same plane.
• 1:10:04
  As it were. Short answer, yes.
• 1:10:09
  I kind of think that we're all doing the same thing through
• 1:10:12
  different lenses. And maybe there's something
• 1:10:16
  about, let's say, like the European psyche that causes us
• 1:10:20
  to have certain ways of doing these practices, whereas like
• 1:10:23
  the Hindu psyche has a different way of doing it.
• 1:10:25
  And maybe like a Native American psyche has their way of doing
• 1:10:28
  it, but it seems like we're all doing the same thing through our
• 1:10:32
  own methods. And I think we developed these
• 1:10:36
  methods because they just work better with who we are.
• 1:10:39
  Maybe it's genetics, I don't know.
• 1:10:42
  But it seems like the the different ways that different
• 1:10:45
  people do things are better suited for them as people.
• 1:10:48
  But yeah, they are all the same. Yeah, it almost seems to me.
• 1:10:53
  Like the the. The similarities are.
• 1:11:00
  Far more than the differences. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:04
  The the the. Like the items?
• 1:11:05
  That might get used or, you know, a direction that might get
• 1:11:11
  faced might be relevant because of their geographical location.
• 1:11:14
  But the spirit of it all the way that's all done does seem pretty
• 1:11:19
  universal and and we talk about, you know, why does it work?
• 1:11:23
  Is it genetics? Is it this is it that I think
• 1:11:25
  it's, I think it's because every culture knows how to connect to
• 1:11:29
  its source, which is the same source in their own way, but
• 1:11:33
  it's the same source. So the the process is going to
• 1:11:36
  look closely enough. Yeah, the specifics of it don't
• 1:11:41
  really. It doesn't matter if it's sage
• 1:11:43
  versus palm versus cedar versus, you know what I mean?
• 1:11:46
  Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Annex of it all.
• 1:11:48
  Are the same but the. The items and might be very
• 1:11:52
  little, little variation of it, but you know.
• 1:11:56
  More the the similarities. Are more than than the
• 1:11:58
  differences, I think. Yeah, and I've played with this
• 1:12:01
  idea. Where like if a population
• 1:12:03
  develops some sort of spiritual practice and they keep that
• 1:12:07
  tradition for let's say thousands of years, they in some
• 1:12:11
  sense Co evolve with that particular tradition, with those
• 1:12:15
  practices. And maybe because of that Co
• 1:12:18
  evolution, there's something about keeping to those specific
• 1:12:22
  practice that makes communing with the gods easier as those
• 1:12:26
  two things work together. I don't know if there's any
• 1:12:29
  merit in that. It's just an idea I've played
• 1:12:31
  with. It's more controversial for some
• 1:12:32
  people, but it's something I've thought of.
• 1:12:35
  Yeah, it's, it's worth thinking. About 'cause it you know, you,
• 1:12:38
  you think about the gods of a of a nation or the gods of a people
• 1:12:42
  that understood them to be limited themselves.
• 1:12:49
  The gods were not omnipotent. They were not omniscient.
• 1:12:53
  They were not omnipresent even they had to be accessed during
• 1:12:57
  certain times with through certain methods.
• 1:13:01
  You know what I mean? The specificity of it all is, is
• 1:13:04
  unique to the culture, unique to the people.
• 1:13:07
  But that was a pretty common understood thing.
• 1:13:11
  So, yeah, to know like the winds, the wise, the house,
• 1:13:15
  right? It's it's, I think it's, it's as
• 1:13:17
  much of a part of understanding how to preserve a tradition as
• 1:13:21
  it is knowing the the mechanics that were done.
• 1:13:24
  What did they do, how to do it well, also why, you know, Yeah,
• 1:13:28
  yeah. Those rules are important, yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah. Couple more questions.
• 1:13:34
  Here before we get going, 'cause we've been about almost an hour
• 1:13:37
  and 15 in, so I want to be respectful of your time.
• 1:13:41
  I got all night man I I work nights.
• 1:13:43
  I'm off tonight. You got me as long as you need
• 1:13:45
  me. Oh, OK, well, in.
• 1:13:47
  Respect to that. Still, you know, I do like to, I
• 1:13:51
  appreciate that, but I like to just be respectful and be like,
• 1:13:53
  alright, got you, I got you right.
• 1:13:55
  We'll get ready for another 3 hours.
• 1:13:58
  Be like that. Yeah, we can do a jewelry.
• 1:14:00
  Podcast right now, right? But not as somebody who's been,
• 1:14:06
  you know, involved with, you know, the sort of magical or
• 1:14:09
  esoteric practices as as much as you've been.
• 1:14:13
  Why do you think that that side of a belief of of a belief, you
• 1:14:20
  know, the magical, mystical, esoteric side of things.
• 1:14:23
  Why do you think that that is tends to get treated with such
• 1:14:28
  suspicion amongst modern heathen groups or circles?
• 1:14:35
  Oh. Good question.
• 1:14:37
  I don't even. Know if it's a modern thing?
• 1:14:39
  It seems even the ancients, depending on the writer, were
• 1:14:42
  kind of suspicious of magic. It just seems to be a natural
• 1:14:45
  human inclination. I think maybe in modern times we
• 1:14:49
  sort of associate magic with like, I mean, obviously
• 1:14:52
  Christianity and demon stuff, but then people also equate
• 1:14:56
  magic with like, Wicca and like Crowley.
• 1:14:59
  And so there's like a weird association there.
• 1:15:01
  We think it's all New age, despite the fact that if you
• 1:15:04
  look into stuff that people like Crowley were doing, it's
• 1:15:06
  actually in the Greek magical papyri.
• 1:15:09
  So these things go back thousands of years regardless of
• 1:15:11
  who's doing what. But yeah, I think there's just
• 1:15:14
  weird associations we make and maybe it scares us on some
• 1:15:17
  level. I think it does too, and I think
• 1:15:23
  it also. At least for some within the
• 1:15:26
  heathen circles. Because, you know, I don't know
• 1:15:27
  how much you see, but it's like there's, there's this, there's.
• 1:15:31
  This rift between, you know, the.
• 1:15:33
  Super historical reconstructionist versus the the
• 1:15:38
  new age. Don't really care about
• 1:15:40
  historical sources, You know, fluffy Bunny type side.
• 1:15:44
  There's there's almost like there's very few in the middle
• 1:15:47
  ground area. It's like one side or the other.
• 1:15:50
  And I feel like, I feel like. The the.
• 1:15:54
  Stain of magical practices and all these things like that.
• 1:15:58
  The stain comes more from the the historical reconstruction
• 1:16:01
  side because why he wasn't written down like no, that's
• 1:16:04
  hardly doc how the dramatic. People.
• 1:16:07
  Did anything like that and that's, you know, sure we have
• 1:16:11
  we have such, you know, examples as like we know that the vulvas
• 1:16:15
  were respected and and kind of almost.
• 1:16:21
  Feared in a way like. They, they, they lived outside
• 1:16:23
  of the the villages, you know what I mean?
• 1:16:25
  Like they were kept away 'cause they were seen as something.
• 1:16:31
  Special. You know what I mean?
• 1:16:32
  They didn't they. Didn't want that near.
• 1:16:34
  So we know that the people had this understanding of that type
• 1:16:38
  of practice. What it was doesn't get
• 1:16:41
  mentioned specifically, but we know that magic and magical
• 1:16:46
  practices existed. Yeah, and what is bloat if?
• 1:16:49
  Not a magical practice, yeah. 100% I mean however you want.
• 1:16:57
  To define it, I mean blood. No blood.
• 1:16:59
  I mean, it's still a, A, an offering to the gods.
• 1:17:04
  It's still setting of sacred space to put yourself.
• 1:17:09
  And this is one of like this is. One of the beautiful things as I
• 1:17:11
  was I was at a Wiccan, like right?
• 1:17:18
  Around belting time of. Year couple of years ago.
• 1:17:23
  And it was like getting. To see that ceremony being done
• 1:17:28
  and how they, you know, they, they recognize eight quarters 8
• 1:17:33
  or the eight points, you know what I mean?
• 1:17:35
  Like not just the four, yeah, yeah, directions.
• 1:17:38
  But they, they went, they went, they went the whole 8 round, you
• 1:17:41
  know what I mean? So just acknowledging the land
• 1:17:43
  and everything that's there in those directions took up enough
• 1:17:48
  time and and seeing their their piety.
• 1:17:54
  You know, and how they. Approach everything.
• 1:17:56
  Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. It's.
• 1:17:58
  Beautiful and that that is. You know, bloat is the heathen
• 1:18:02
  version of that. You know, they may not be, you
• 1:18:04
  know, calling quarters or whatever 'cause that's not
• 1:18:06
  historically attested quote, UN quote, but still setting that
• 1:18:10
  sacred space, setting it with fire, doing it the ways that we
• 1:18:13
  know that the Germanic peoples may have done it and just.
• 1:18:19
  Trying to to. Hold to that, knowing that magic
• 1:18:21
  was a part of their life, how it was defined, how it was called.
• 1:18:26
  We have names. For it now, but.
• 1:18:29
  For them, it was just, they didn't have a name for it.
• 1:18:32
  I guess they just, it was just, it just was their life, you
• 1:18:35
  know? Yeah.
• 1:18:35
  And there's a sect of like. Modern reconstructionists that
• 1:18:38
  push back on me a lot and they call me Jewish for doing magic.
• 1:18:45
  OK. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:47
  Let that sink in. Well, listen, just because all
• 1:18:52
  of the, the sigils and the and the all that came out of, you
• 1:18:56
  know, the, the, the grimoire. 'S there from from.
• 1:19:00
  Whatever it was the the 19th century and it's all cabalism.
• 1:19:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just because you.
• 1:19:07
  Just because you practice magic doesn't automatically make you a
• 1:19:11
  cabalister or anything. Nothing that's bad.
• 1:19:13
  And if you if you were it, yeah, yeah, it's not it.
• 1:19:17
  I I have. AI have a heathen Kabbalah but
• 1:19:19
  like they'll be like were you Kabbalah?
• 1:19:20
  What are you Jewish and like what are we doing like what's
• 1:19:23
  happening? This is so stupid.
• 1:19:26
  That's even. That's a.
• 1:19:27
  Wild term to even think a. Heathen Kabbalah, Yeah, Yep.
• 1:19:33
  What? Is.
• 1:19:35
  Even that I've never send you pictures after this, yeah.
• 1:19:39
  Yeah, yeah. So wait, it makes me think of
• 1:19:41
  like the the the old. The Icelandic grimoires or the
• 1:19:44
  Icelandic galvestopher, Right. Like all of that stuff.
• 1:19:48
  Yeah. Have you?
• 1:19:49
  Have you drove into the? 9 Doors of Midgard.
• 1:19:53
  I have not personally dived into.
• 1:19:55
  It or dove into it. I, I have had people like send
• 1:19:58
  me stuff about it or I, I know about it.
• 1:20:01
  But yeah, you'll see a kabbalistic tree in there.
• 1:20:04
  Too, And I believe it's in the night side of the ruins as well.
• 1:20:07
  Yeah, yeah. Everyone's using this this tree.
• 1:20:11
  Of life mapping. We're just trying to make it
• 1:20:13
  more dramatic. Well, it well, that's The thing
• 1:20:17
  is like where? Did Where did the dramatic
• 1:20:19
  people get it from? Because.
• 1:20:22
  You only hear about Igor. Seal in the north sources you
• 1:20:25
  have airmen soul amongst in the continent, but even that is not
• 1:20:31
  clearly defined like OK, it's probably a tree or or it's a
• 1:20:34
  pillar, definitely not a palm tree like but that that was that
• 1:20:38
  was that was later modern, you know, rendition version of that.
• 1:20:45
  But then you had, you know, you had Donar's oak.
• 1:20:48
  I mean, trees have been associated in in various
• 1:20:51
  cultures as sacred for a long time.
• 1:20:55
  Yes, they. Have yeah, you.
• 1:20:57
  Know obviously the the tree of. Knowledge of good and evil,
• 1:20:59
  right? The tree of life, right?
• 1:21:01
  Even Christian texts. The Bible has it all.
• 1:21:05
  But but so yeah, so scrying and heathenry.
• 1:21:14
  You found a. Place within it or you.
• 1:21:16
  Found a place within your heathenry for for scrying to to
• 1:21:20
  work. Do you think that so so since
• 1:21:29
  we're talking about like, you know, scrying in in heathen rate
• 1:21:32
  we're talking about a a folkway a tradition of religious
• 1:21:36
  practice, whatever heathen ring we're talking about scrying as a
• 1:21:39
  method of divination altered state of consciousness, right.
• 1:21:43
  Do you think that that all spiritual paths, all spiritual
• 1:21:48
  traditions require some kind of practice where in an altered
• 1:21:53
  state of consciousness is achieved for growth and.
• 1:21:59
  Development in. That path.
• 1:22:05
  Well, yeah, I'd say. It's in every single tradition.
• 1:22:08
  If you mean specifically like something that I'm doing or more
• 1:22:12
  of like shamanic work, I think there are specialized people for
• 1:22:15
  that. Like if you're walking the path
• 1:22:17
  of Odin, I kind of think it's your job to get into the magic
• 1:22:21
  and find out what's good and then bring it back to the
• 1:22:23
  people. But yeah, even something as
• 1:22:25
  simple as chanting the names of a gods, that's going to cause an
• 1:22:28
  altered state of consciousness. And doing an Utha Seta is
• 1:22:32
  definitely causing an altered state of consciousness.
• 1:22:35
  Whether that's daytime or dark, Focusing on breathing will alter
• 1:22:38
  your consciousness. Everything you do is changing
• 1:22:40
  your consciousness at all times. It's everywhere.
• 1:22:49
  Nice hit, definitely. Man.
• 1:22:52
  I'm just, you know. Ripping.
• 1:22:53
  Clouds and. What else to say at this point?
• 1:22:58
  That's. I'm not as witty ripping clouds
• 1:23:03
  and. Oh man, leave me.
• 1:23:08
  I. Reckon we need them Got.
• 1:23:10
  Got got nothing else ripping. Clouds and you know, that's it
• 1:23:18
  you you describe your approach as on on your podcast and then
• 1:23:22
  we're gonna wrap this up. Your podcast is called the
• 1:23:26
  Heretical Heathen podcast. Yes, Sir.
• 1:23:31
  So. What does the heretical meet
• 1:23:34
  part mean in this context? Because normally, you know, when
• 1:23:38
  people hear heresy, you know, that's a bad, you know, yeah, we
• 1:23:42
  don't like that guy or whatever 'cause he, he's a heretic.
• 1:23:45
  So the Heretical heathen, give us some.
• 1:23:48
  Give us some back story about this.
• 1:23:52
  Share with us the lore behind the Heretical even.
• 1:23:56
  Well, I I kind of came. Up with the idea because I don't
• 1:23:59
  seem to fit into any camp and I have a tendency of just beefing
• 1:24:02
  with people on Twitter. I should probably slow my roll,
• 1:24:05
  but I don't get along with like the Super Universalist.
• 1:24:08
  I don't get along with the hardcore folkish people.
• 1:24:11
  I don't get along with the hardcore reconstructionist guys.
• 1:24:14
  It's like I'm I'm heretical in every single camp.
• 1:24:17
  I'm just doing my own thing and as far as I can see, I'm the
• 1:24:21
  only one here. I'm like on an island by myself,
• 1:24:24
  so everyone considers me a heretic regardless of where I'm
• 1:24:27
  at. I'm like a.
• 1:24:31
  Proper Vic. I thought, I thought.
• 1:24:34
  That was just a yeah, a. Proper vid key you said right?
• 1:24:38
  Are you about to say that's what I said?
• 1:24:41
  Proper bit key. Yeah, man.
• 1:24:46
  Yeah. I if that's if.
• 1:24:48
  You know what? And if it works for you, if
• 1:24:51
  that's your jam, if that's what you found fulfillment in, not
• 1:24:54
  everybody's looking for the same thing.
• 1:24:56
  And you've listened to my show, I think enough, you know.
• 1:25:01
  I always. Advocate for, you know,
• 1:25:05
  tribalism. Right, like the the whole.
• 1:25:08
  Work with your community and get get together through community
• 1:25:10
  and stuff like that. And I I I truly believe that if
• 1:25:14
  if he evenry has a future, it's it's it's with that mentality.
• 1:25:19
  But there are some really stellar heathens that are kind
• 1:25:24
  of burning their. Own fire and.
• 1:25:26
  Keeping on on their on their own trajectory and and they're as
• 1:25:31
  important out here too, as as everybody that's that's tied
• 1:25:35
  with another group or that has that that thing.
• 1:25:37
  I think it's a blessing when you can have that.
• 1:25:41
  But I don't want people out here to think that they're somehow
• 1:25:45
  failing or they're somehow less of a heathen for not having it.
• 1:25:48
  You can you can do. Your own thing you can.
• 1:25:52
  Be your own heathen then, I think.
• 1:25:57
  Robert, here is is. A a good example of.
• 1:26:00
  That, you know he's got. Something that he believes and
• 1:26:02
  that he's going for and that he's finding meaning in.
• 1:26:05
  He's getting something out of it 'cause he's putting something
• 1:26:08
  into it. So yeah, Robert, what would you,
• 1:26:14
  what would you like to add to that?
• 1:26:15
  If, if, if anything, man, that's I'm, I'm really inspired by what
• 1:26:18
  you're doing and, and talking about on a platform, you know,
• 1:26:22
  talking about a practice, 2 practices that don't seemingly
• 1:26:26
  have a place. With each other and you're.
• 1:26:31
  Finding a place for them to to cohabitate and symbiotically
• 1:26:36
  exist. So yeah, over to you.
• 1:26:39
  I mean, I don't know if I really.
• 1:26:41
  Have much to add. I'd say if you're a heathen in
• 1:26:43
  the sphere, be open to experimenting.
• 1:26:46
  Like you don't have to stick everything into a specific
• 1:26:49
  reconstructionist frame. Do your bloats on your moons, do
• 1:26:53
  the celebrate the holy tides, but then experiment outside of
• 1:26:56
  that as well. Like don't be afraid and who
• 1:26:58
  cares what people think of you? Like some guy on Facebook is
• 1:27:02
  gonna say something bad about you.
• 1:27:04
  Who cares? Stop giving attention to these
• 1:27:07
  fucking people. Like just live your life, yeah.
• 1:27:12
  Yeah, or, you know, do like me and and somehow arbitrarily get
• 1:27:16
  a a community guideline, strike that that totally disables your
• 1:27:21
  account and then you're not looking at Facebook at all.
• 1:27:23
  Dude, I don't know what's going on with you.
• 1:27:25
  You get banned harder than the folkish guys do.
• 1:27:27
  It's crazy dude, I'm telling you.
• 1:27:29
  And you know what? It's.
• 1:27:30
  Fine, because, umm, I mean, I got, I got kind of like tore up
• 1:27:35
  about it at first. The first day it happened, I was
• 1:27:37
  like, but my memories, my 15 years of this and that and
• 1:27:41
  whatever I'm like yeah, yeah. So I ended up like I.
• 1:27:44
  Ended up. I don't know if I got it all.
• 1:27:46
  I just I know that I've got like 20 gigs worth of data from
• 1:27:51
  Facebook that I've got stay saved now from my from my
• 1:27:55
  account. And if it doesn't get restored,
• 1:27:57
  doesn't get restored. And I'm like, you know what?
• 1:27:59
  Now I don't have to look at all these fucking jabronis out here
• 1:28:04
  talking out there their ass. And I like it's better.
• 1:28:09
  It's better for my mental health for me to not be on there
• 1:28:12
  because they are. It's just they're out here.
• 1:28:13
  Just am I Viking enough yet? Guys?
• 1:28:17
  I found my DNA was, you know, .9% of this or that
• 1:28:22
  Scandinavian. I'm like we all start there.
• 1:28:26
  But you know, I did. I OK, I started, listen, I've
• 1:28:28
  got my own origin story, right? I found out, you know, I've
• 1:28:32
  always known I was German and Dutch and, and this and that and
• 1:28:35
  then, you know, I got this tattoo of Thor's hammer on my
• 1:28:38
  hand 'cause I was like, yes, protection and strength.
• 1:28:41
  And then, and then, and then I found, you know, the Vikings TV
• 1:28:47
  show on, on, on The History Channel.
• 1:28:49
  Hey, first few seasons bangers. Beautiful show the first two
• 1:28:53
  seasons, Yes, I and I. 1st, I did not continue watching after
• 1:28:57
  that because the first season was all I need.
• 1:28:59
  I'm like, wait a second, there's people actually believe in this
• 1:29:03
  stuff, like the whole Thor and Odin thing.
• 1:29:05
  Like I thought it was like stories.
• 1:29:07
  And I'm like, Nah, man, like, oh, they believe in and I start
• 1:29:09
  doing research and I'm like, oh, this is my people.
• 1:29:11
  Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, my way back.
• 1:29:15
  And so, yeah, that's where it started.
• 1:29:16
  The seed got planted over a History Channel show that wasn't
• 1:29:19
  exactly historically accurate, but I didn't have to do the DNA
• 1:29:24
  test. I know where all my people come
• 1:29:26
  from, or at least close enough. I don't, you know, I have one of
• 1:29:31
  my one of my dad's cousins was a she was a a genealogist in the
• 1:29:38
  Daughters of the American Revolution.
• 1:29:40
  So like I've got, I've got names of people from my dad's side of
• 1:29:47
  the family going back to Pocahontas, man, that's awesome.
• 1:29:53
  But yeah, but but yeah, dude. So you're still doing content,
• 1:29:58
  right? You're still, how often do you
• 1:29:59
  put your shows out? Your first of all, you have you
• 1:30:01
  have the the Heretical Heathen podcast.
• 1:30:05
  What's your, what's your show schedule like usually?
• 1:30:08
  I mean I'm trying to do. An episode every week.
• 1:30:11
  But you know, without how busy I am and how lazy I am, to be
• 1:30:14
  honest, I I've been trying, I've been getting them like every
• 1:30:18
  other week, OK? But you're still putting out.
• 1:30:22
  Content like you still. Have stuff that you're gonna be
• 1:30:23
  doing. People can check.
• 1:30:24
  Yeah, you have to try at least all of the.
• 1:30:26
  Ruins and then potentially the Saxon ruins as well.
• 1:30:30
  So yeah, I'm gonna have content for a while.
• 1:30:32
  Oh, wait a second now. So you're talking?
• 1:30:33
  About doing a scrying series for.
• 1:30:40
  All of the Germanic runes. In the runit poems like the
• 1:30:43
  Anglo-Saxon runes, the. Yeah why not?
• 1:30:46
  Maybe I'll even grab Irex. American futh arch and go
• 1:30:48
  through that too. See what happens.
• 1:30:52
  Listen. Listen.
• 1:30:55
  If you're going to do that. We need to get we need to get
• 1:30:57
  Irek back on here after you do that.
• 1:31:01
  Yeah dude, I forgot about the American futh arch.
• 1:31:07
  Yeah, man, I've been trying to promote.
• 1:31:08
  Him as much as possible, even though I don't have an audience.
• 1:31:11
  He's awesome. Yeah, I've had him on here.
• 1:31:15
  Twice he is. Man, he's he's, he's.
• 1:31:20
  One of the good ones out here. So, yeah, there might be some
• 1:31:23
  links in this show for you folks to check out Ira Westcote, the
• 1:31:28
  the the Skaldick Eagle as he goes by on on socials.
• 1:31:33
  But yeah, his new book, The Occult, no.
• 1:31:36
  It's not the occult me. What's his new book called?
• 1:31:38
  The. One the shit you.
• 1:31:43
  Know I have a copy of it here. 'Cause my wife got it.
• 1:31:45
  He's got two. It's I actually just had him on
• 1:31:48
  one. The last time I had him on here,
• 1:31:49
  he was, it was one of the first 3 or 4 episodes of this season.
• 1:31:54
  We were talking about that because he was talking.
• 1:31:56
  It was the the Black Sun. Yeah, dude, his Facebook blew.
• 1:32:01
  Up on with that. That was crazy going through
• 1:32:03
  those comments. Yeah, it's, it's, it's Arthur's
• 1:32:04
  court. And all this stuff.
• 1:32:06
  Yeah, it's a yeah, yeah. We'll, I'll put something in
• 1:32:09
  the, in the description or the show notes rather, 'cause he's
• 1:32:13
  got, yeah, he's got that essay. And then he's got the other
• 1:32:16
  book. Yeah, he's got, I've got a
• 1:32:19
  couple of his books. Yeah, checking.
• 1:32:24
  Out Eric Westcoat. Solid Eagle and check out Robert
• 1:32:27
  Knox AKA the heretical Heathen. He's on Spotify.
• 1:32:31
  He's on you said what? YouTube and where else sub
• 1:32:35
  stack. Sub stack.
• 1:32:39
  I'll sub stack Spotify, YouTube, probably some other platforms.
• 1:32:42
  I don't really know. OK, well there.
• 1:32:45
  Will be there will be there will be links in the show notes or
• 1:32:49
  for you guys watching on Patreon down in the description of the
• 1:32:52
  video. There will be links to his
• 1:32:58
  shows, you know, on Spotify or wherever else, wherever you can
• 1:33:01
  find him and show your support. Definitely do that.
• 1:33:03
  And if you do, and if you can leave a comment wherever you
• 1:33:05
  find him. Yeah, just let him know that,
• 1:33:07
  hey, you know, RHR sent me or Midgard Musing sent me, or I'm
• 1:33:13
  over here because I want to be and I don't need to tell you who
• 1:33:15
  sent me, right? Whatever it is.
• 1:33:20
  But all right, Robert, so I want to.
• 1:33:22
  Real quick before I let you go, you've got some experience with
• 1:33:25
  the scrying, you've got experience with a lot of
• 1:33:28
  different things. Do you have any, besides your
• 1:33:30
  own experiences that you can talk to people about?
• 1:33:34
  Do you have any places or recommendations for people that
• 1:33:38
  want to explore, you know, scrying or anything else
• 1:33:44
  particularly of interest here responsibly?
• 1:33:47
  Like any authors, any audio books, any places that you've
• 1:33:51
  found some help with people too If you're looking for something
• 1:33:55
  like. Specific like rune magic,
• 1:33:58
  anything that Thorson put out is great.
• 1:34:01
  His 9 Doors of Midgard program is awesome because it's not just
• 1:34:04
  random magic, it's an actual curriculum so you can spend time
• 1:34:08
  going through different stages and sort of get the feel how
• 1:34:11
  magic works. If you want something that's
• 1:34:13
  more structured and has like a lineage then I would check out
• 1:34:17
  Isaac Hill's The Heathen Golden Dawn which is what I'm going
• 1:34:21
  through currently. It's another great resource.
• 1:34:24
  Anything you can think of. Jesse maybe night side of the
• 1:34:26
  runes. Yeah, there's, I mean when it
• 1:34:33
  comes to runes specifically. There's a fella who?
• 1:34:41
  I love the book that he put out. It's called The Call of the Call
• 1:34:45
  of the Runes. Oh, I know what you're talking.
• 1:34:48
  About Walter Mcgrory. Yeah, I'll put it in.
• 1:34:53
  I'll put it in. The the the show notes and
• 1:34:55
  stuff, but it's called the runes.
• 1:34:57
  Walter Mcgrory, every single rune of the Elder Futhark.
• 1:35:04
  So from Fahu all the way to Othella, he references any rune
• 1:35:11
  poem that the rune is mentioned in.
• 1:35:12
  He meant he, he, he cites any historical place that the rune
• 1:35:18
  was found in esoterically or magically rather he's he's, you
• 1:35:24
  know, any archaeological finds that the rune was found on, You
• 1:35:27
  know, he goes into all kinds of really, really good.
• 1:35:35
  Information, right, The rune poem.
• 1:35:37
  The the the modern interpretation, the contemporary
• 1:35:40
  view, views of it, the historical views of it.
• 1:35:43
  It's, I mean, it's a good thick read.
• 1:35:47
  It's 'cause it's you know, it's it's going into details in in
• 1:35:49
  all 24 the elders Rudart runes, but he's covering where they're
• 1:35:54
  mentioned in in all of the the rune poems if you're.
• 1:36:02
  Interested in Seder? You could check.
• 1:36:03
  Out in Search of Seder by Janet Dider.
• 1:36:07
  It's her masterwork in the Guild.
• 1:36:09
  It's fantastic work. Sort of looking at all the
• 1:36:12
  historical instances of Said, who was practicing it, who was
• 1:36:17
  purchasing it, and you find out very quickly Said is not the
• 1:36:20
  thing we think it is. It's a brilliant read.
• 1:36:22
  I was recommended it from Scott Shell, so.
• 1:36:26
  OK, good. Yeah, if Scott.
• 1:36:27
  'S gonna recommend something. I will definitely check it out.
• 1:36:33
  Robert, if you wouldn't mind, like, just either, you know,
• 1:36:35
  e-mail me or drop me, message me the, the name of that with the
• 1:36:39
  author so way I can include it for sure in the show notes for
• 1:36:42
  people. Troldom is interesting, too.
• 1:36:45
  Troldom is another good one. Yes.
• 1:36:47
  Yeah, Yeah. Hell yeah, dude.
• 1:36:56
  All right, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you 3
• 1:36:59
  rapid fire questions. There's no right, wrong answer.
• 1:37:02
  Just first thing that comes to your mind, what is the most in
• 1:37:09
  your mind? The most overrated occult
• 1:37:12
  concept. Oh shit, I have no.
• 1:37:19
  Idea. Oh, you got me.
• 1:37:23
  I don't know man. Not not one.
• 1:37:26
  Not one. That you think is overrated,
• 1:37:30
  There's nothing I could think. Of it's particular.
• 1:37:32
  Maybe crystals? I don't like crystals.
• 1:37:34
  Fuck crystals. Crystals.
• 1:37:39
  All right, give me one historical figure that you'd be
• 1:37:43
  most inclined to want to speak with.
• 1:37:50
  Oh, that would probably be. Either Plato or Platinus, maybe
• 1:37:55
  even the Ambucus. One of those three.
• 1:37:58
  How did I know you were going to go Greek?
• 1:38:00
  Philosopher on me? Yeah.
• 1:38:02
  How did I know? I don't.
• 1:38:03
  Know I just I. Don't know, Felt like that was
• 1:38:06
  where we were going to go. Plato.
• 1:38:07
  That would be interesting for sure.
• 1:38:09
  Yeah. So you.
• 1:38:16
  Already mentioned before that. You know, you're scrying is
• 1:38:20
  usually without any sort of external aid like smoker or
• 1:38:25
  whatever. Have you done?
• 1:38:29
  Scrying first. First question, have you done?
• 1:38:32
  Have you scried? Using anything besides.
• 1:38:36
  Your lack of vision, like closing your eyes.
• 1:38:41
  Yeah, I've done Black Mirror scrying.
• 1:38:43
  OK, so. Fire, water, mirror or smoke?
• 1:38:48
  Yeah, which? Medium for scrying, would you
• 1:38:51
  pick? Fire.
• 1:38:53
  Water. Where were the other two?
• 1:38:55
  Fire water mirror. Or smoke.
• 1:39:00
  I think I would do mirror. There's something.
• 1:39:04
  Interesting about the mirror. I don't know.
• 1:39:06
  What it is and even if you. Don't see images in the mirror?
• 1:39:10
  Itself. When you close your eyes, images
• 1:39:11
  show up real quick. There's something interesting
• 1:39:14
  about it. Yeah, it's almost like a cat,
• 1:39:16
  like a camera. Like it captures it, right?
• 1:39:19
  Yeah, yeah. OK.
• 1:39:23
  And then the last. Question.
• 1:39:25
  Do you think that modern society is?
• 1:39:30
  Afraid of mysticism? No, I think we're craving it.
• 1:39:37
  I think. That's what the UFO thing is, I
• 1:39:41
  think. The UFO phenomenon is modern.
• 1:39:43
  A modern way of framing mystical experiences.
• 1:39:50
  OK. Like you can't you can't you?
• 1:39:52
  Can't assign it to a an origin, so you have to make something up
• 1:39:56
  to satisfy the question. Or maybe the phenomenon the
• 1:40:00
  mystical. Experience itself frames itself
• 1:40:03
  in a way that modern people can understand.
• 1:40:06
  Maybe that's what's happening. Maybe the UFOs are whites or
• 1:40:11
  gods, but we don't understand those things anymore and so they
• 1:40:15
  come to us in the form of aliens.
• 1:40:19
  They're just images, right? Images that your consciousness
• 1:40:22
  can grasp, if that makes any sense.
• 1:40:30
  I guess they're going to have to figure that.
• 1:40:32
  Out. Yeah.
• 1:40:32
  I mean, your visions are things that that are being being given
• 1:40:37
  to our our naked eyes. You know what I mean?
• 1:40:39
  And what we what? Sense we make of it.
• 1:40:43
  What we deduce it to be, you know.
• 1:40:48
  I think people are looking. For answers, more so now than
• 1:40:52
  ever, I think that they have a lot of questions and they are
• 1:40:59
  desperately trying to find their find those answers and they
• 1:41:06
  realize the answers aren't coming from anybody else.
• 1:41:10
  So what do I do? How do I find these answers?
• 1:41:12
  Where do I go? And it you know it's within.
• 1:41:16
  Us and it's. Just getting to that point,
• 1:41:19
  getting to that area of where the answer is, you got to dig up
• 1:41:24
  all this nastiness. You got to dig up all this stuff
• 1:41:27
  that keeps you away from it, you know?
• 1:41:33
  But I mean. I think that's everything.
• 1:41:35
  That I wanted to cover. Was there anything else that you
• 1:41:37
  wanted to say to people before we wrap this up?
• 1:41:40
  Yeah. The the occult community.
• 1:41:42
  Lost darling figure this week, so I just want to say rest in
• 1:41:46
  peace to Gordon White. Rest in peace.
• 1:41:54
  I know this will go out after that has happened, so for those
• 1:41:58
  of you in the community that were impacted by it, you know.
• 1:42:02
  My condolences. And thank you, Robert, for for
• 1:42:06
  being here this week and for sharing your thoughts on scrying
• 1:42:10
  and your path and Heathenry. We we talked about a lot of cool
• 1:42:12
  things. So I definitely appreciate you
• 1:42:15
  and reaching out. And yeah, if there's ever any a
• 1:42:18
  time that we decide, you know, we got a Part 2 coming up here,
• 1:42:22
  you know, you talked about scrying the rest of the ruins.
• 1:42:24
  We might need to definitely get you back after that's done, but
• 1:42:29
  we'll see, yeah. The the offers there.
• 1:42:31
  So all right, I'd gladly. Come again?
• 1:42:34
  This was fantastic, especially from my first podcast
• 1:42:37
  experience. It was wonderful.
• 1:42:39
  Dude. You mean you rocked it?
• 1:42:40
  Like I said, you. Would you know what I mean?
• 1:42:42
  This guy is an up and coming podcaster himself, you know what
• 1:42:45
  I mean? So 1 from 1 podcaster to another
• 1:42:48
  man, we got it. We got to support each other,
• 1:42:50
  you know what I mean? And I'm looking forward to to
• 1:42:53
  seeing what more you can put out and maybe continue to
• 1:42:57
  collaborate some more. But yeah, you guys and gals out
• 1:43:02
  here watching or listening today, be sure to check out
• 1:43:05
  Robert's show, the Heretical Heating Podcast on whatever
• 1:43:09
  platforms that you can check everything out that I else that
• 1:43:13
  I've got in the show notes in description box below.
• 1:43:16
  Robert, don't go anywhere. I'll be touching basically here
• 1:43:18
  in just a moment. But for everybody else that's
• 1:43:21
  tuned in and checked out this week's episode, thank you so
• 1:43:24
  much for your continuous support.
• 1:43:27
  Until we talk to each other again, may the gods continue to
• 1:43:30
  notice you, and may your ancestors smile upon you, and
• 1:43:35
  we'll see you in the next one. None.