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Happy Hour #78: Sad Murder Dad · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told You production of iHeart Radio. And it is
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: time for another happy hour. Just bite the name. I
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: think this one's going to be mostly a happy hour,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: or at least like a not unhappy hour, even though
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: we are going to talk about grief but not much
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: okay hour then, yes, it's okay. I think it's gonna
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: be like the kind of enjoyable ranting hour. But I
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: don't know if you like this kind of thing. I
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: think you'll be into it. But if you don't me Um, So,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: as always with these segments, drink responsibly. Uh and what
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: are you sipping on? Say? You know how we talked
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: about trying to switch up our drinks and again, but
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: we still have our fave. Yeah, I'm drinking a fave.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: So I'm drinking my vino verde from Trader Joe's not
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a sponsor unless they want to give me a case
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of this wine because I really like it. Um, But yeah,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just sticking with that today. It sounds nice, sounds refreshing.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: It is light and refreshing and appily. Okay, Well, I
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: kind of had a similar issue again, so last time
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I made like a gin and tonic with beer. This time,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I made like a gin wine slushy tonic thing. Interesting. Yeah,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: because my friend, I believe I've told the story before,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: but I have a friend who Katie, who's on her
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: episode about women with red hair. She loves snacks and
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I don't like snacks, so and she loves desserts and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I don't really eat dessert so she'll every time she
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: comes over. She has started to bring desserts and snacks
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and things that she'll like, and she'll leave them here.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: But that's part of the problem is I don't like
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: having that stuff around. But she did leave this whole
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: like case of these wine slushies. Oh yeah, And she's
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: become increasingly fresh with me that I won't drink them,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: but I also won't throw them away. But I'm like, you,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: maybe you'll want them one day, And she flat out
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: told me I'm never going to drink those because it's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: become a point of pride now and so I'm trying
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: to be stubborn and drink them slowly. Yes. Um, So
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: today we are going to talk about a tripe I've
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: mentioned before. Um, the sad murdered dad trope. And I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: know this sounds kind of dark, but the timing of
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: this is it's the anniversary of my dad's death. Um.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And you know, I was thinking, I feel like, in
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the years since he's died, I still have occasions where
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I just get so so sad. Um. And and one
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of the things I do on the anniversary of his
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: death is I watched Our Wars, which, of course, um,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: we love Star Wars together. We watched Oars together. I
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: can't hear open one without hearing him. Um. And the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: sad murder Dad trope is I first heard of it
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: about Darth Vader, so he's the original sad murder Dad
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: in my book. UM. And I did get Samantha knows.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I did find this letter he wrote me. I have
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: not opened it yet. I still haven't opened it. I
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: can't do it. I'm going to, but it just feels
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: like it's gonna be such a big before and after.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Like once I opened that letter, I think it's gonna
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: change something. It could possibly be like legal documents and
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I really need them. Um. I was cleaning out my
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: apartment and I just came across this letter that when
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: he gave it to me, he left it on my bed,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and when I found it, I was so angry. I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: just was like, I would never open this, And now
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of sad because who knows what's in there.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe it would have been important and changed the relationship,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: but too bad. I will never know. I will open it,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I will, but not today, not for me, not for
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: a minute. Even though I said I was going to
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: do it on Father's Day and I never did, and
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I said I was gonna do the next weekind and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I never did. I've picked it up and held it
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: and almost opened it several times and then like no
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. Um, you take your time, okay,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: thank you. It just it does feel like it's going
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to be a big I don't know. It feels like
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be life changing, or at least potentially like
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: temporarily life changing. Right, it's definitely no matter what, it's
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: your dad's words to you who you have been seen
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: because he passed away a few years ago and now
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: you have those bags again, and you just come to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the point of being like kind of okay with his
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: um because he didn't leave you in a good place.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: That's you know, that's obviously, so you like could be
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: reopening wounds that you don't want to think about. So
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: absolutely that makes perfect sense. Yeah, yeah, it does. I
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: just I have this like I have to read it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I have to read it because somebody said, like you
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: don't have to read it, like maybe you just don't
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: read it, Like no, I have to read it. Um.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm just waiting for the time when I just
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: been worried it's going to really like the next two
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: weeks are going to be ruined or something like I'm
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: not gonna be able to work or I don't know.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: And again it could just beat like the legal documents.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Who knows. I always got you to read it. I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: was like, you open it and you tell me what
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: it is and then I can prepare. I can do
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: that for you. We'll see, We'll see it's sitting there
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: chaunting me. It's uh. And I did go home. I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: went home to see my mom last weekend. And every
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: time I go home, that's pretty like the memories are
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: just everywhere. And then I've never been to busity his
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: grave and every time I kind of drive by it,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that's always that always gets me. That's that's a rough time.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But again, maybe one day I'll visit it. But all
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of this to say, I am someone, as you know,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: who loves anniversaries and traditions and marketing occasions, no matter
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: how sad they might be. So I am going to
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: talk about the sad murder Dad trope UM. And I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: like to think my dad, who did love Star Wars
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and Darth Vader and movies in general, would at least
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: get a kick out of it. So this is also
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: an on my mind because I very excitedly showed you.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I sent you pictures I finally got my I donated
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: to a oh three, which is the big nonprofit fan
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: fiction website, and I finally got They sent this deck
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: of cards as a thank you to everyone who donated,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: and each of the cards has a trope a fan
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: fiction tag on it um and They're so cool and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I loved them and I'm going to show them to
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: you next time we hang out like everyone, um, But
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: sad murdered Dad was not in there. Oh no, well,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: yeah I did get these pictures. I was very confused.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what am I looking at? Explain because I
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: didn't know what was happening. And then of course you're like,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: this is what I'll say. Oh, Okay, very exciting. I'm
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: really excited to see them all. You sent a very
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: confused text, that's for sure, because I sent like ten
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: pictures because that's a limit on my phone. I would
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: have sent you like just kept popping up, so I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: was like, what what's happening? I think that was what's
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: happening right now with resence. Yes, they also didn't have
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a cinema rolled, but they had a lot of my
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: favorite They had a lot of my favorite tags. But
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: if you don't know what the sad murdered dad trope is,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: it's essentially exactly what it sounds like. Um. It is
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: a father figure um who uses violence and murder in
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: the name of their child. And it's very sad about it,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: not about the murder, but it's just sad, just a
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: sad character. And and and Darth Vader is the first
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: time I ever saw that tag. And I he is
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: frequently displayed that way. He's frequently and I mean this
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: is I would say accurate as his character. He's very
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: possessive of Luke because he doesn't know Leah as his child.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: When we see him very possessive, so like he can
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: hurt Luke, but no one else can hurt Luke, and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: he will like kill anyone, including the Emperor for Luke.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of violence in his name that Luke
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't want. But but he's also very sad as a character.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of the introspections I've read very sad because
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: he missed out on Luke's life. He Luke doesn't want
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: to be with him after he makes the announcement UM,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the revelation I am your father, And it is a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: really interesting trope and it's one I feel like now
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: that I have that name for it, which is kind
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: of a funny like fan fiction name UM for I
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: see it all the time UM. And we have talked
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: about it before. We talked about it in our Survival
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: video game series, like anytime we bring up the Last
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: of Us because Joel, I would say, is a sad
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: murder Dad. And that weekend where we did Star Wars
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and Last of Us for my birthday even joked it
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: could be like sad murder Dad. Yes, shot to find
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the perfect name, but I think it's a sad soup
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: day soup we can, I think, And it was great.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: The soup was not sad that people no, no, but
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I did cry. I remember you brought out that piece
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: of pie and I was crying and I was like, oh,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: this is perfect I did. I did, so thank you.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Um So, as you know, I also love the Simon
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Roll tag. That's my favorite, UM, which is just somebody
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: who's like a sweetheart, like the most genuine, sincere sweetheart.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And Luke has often portrayed that way, not always but often.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: UM So if you get like the sad murder Dad
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and then the Cinnamon Roll, I think like the dichotomy
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: there is very interesting because you've got somebody like Luke
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: who is like so sweet, and then Vader who's like
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: literally kind of this hul king monster who's killing everybody,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and yet um they're related. But I think like these
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: are heightened fan fiction terms. But again I think this
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: is the same thing that we see all the time.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Or they is a usually cut off, emotionally constipated man
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: who lost something someone usually his wife and or daughter
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: or a child, goes down a dark spiral, cuts off
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: from everybody, becomes violent, becomes cold, meats a child or
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: somebody usually a young girl. But in this case no um,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: but like Joel with Ellie, where you meet a young
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: girl who's like the ultimate innocence. I wouldn't call her
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: quite as some mineral, but it's like that same idea
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of that foil against each other and then the sad
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: murder dad in question slowly like learns to feel again. Yeah,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and then um, but in doing so does it in
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: a very violent and very like toxic masculinity way of
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: of killing everybody? Um? Yeah, And so I do think
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: when I think about the last of us, and I
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: know I've talked about this ad nauseum and I probably
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: will forever, Like I feel like people, I guess, I
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: just I have this question that I feel like I
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: know the answer to, But is why why are we
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: so willing to excuse violence and bad behavior for fathers
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: in particular? Well, while mothers are women who engage in
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: this behavior are evil or bad or failures. And we've
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: got a pretty good episode I think coming up where
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about some of this stuff soon
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: about why we treat mothers just that way. But fathers
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: were like, Oh, but he's so sweet, he's trying, he
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: cares so much, He'll kill all those people. Isn't that good? Like?
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Is it? It's like showing showing you care through violence.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: That's not the person the cinnamon roll in question doesn't want,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in fact, really really doesn't want, but you're doing it
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: in their name, and it's supposed to be proof of
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: how much you care, because I think we just value
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: so much masculine behavior more. It's also more dramatic, like
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I'll give you that, but it's not It is certainly
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: more I would say, a masculine realm. Yeah, yeah, And
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: then this is a bigger issue. Perhaps then we're going
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: to get into two in depth in this one. But
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: it is something I think about too where I can't
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: help but sort of psychoanalyze writers sometimes. And it seems
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: like we have a whole generation of writers who I
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: could be wrong. I don't know they're lives, but maybe
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: had a father who wasn't there that much, or like
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: they felt like as a kid they had to do
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: something to keep them around, or or just closed off. Again,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I could be totally wrong, but it's just like we
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: see these stories a lot. Maybe they feel that way
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: as fathers themselves, they feel like they're failing, they're so
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: their way at their job all the time writing these things.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's just sort of like, I
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: see a lot of male writers continually writing these things,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: and I'm just kind of curious, curious why. Indeed, indeed,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I read a funny article about it in Star Wars
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and they were like why, because you know, like the
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Mandalorian and Grogu is the same essentially, Like why we
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: keep seeing this dynamic of sort of a like closed off, cold,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: violent man who's honestly not very good at a job. No,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I love him. I love Darth Vader, but he's also
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: not very good at his job. Like he's he's had
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of screw ups in his day. Sure, And
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I was telling my friend the other day that's one
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: of my favorite parts of the end Return of the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Jedi is is because he kind of failed as a
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Sip and Luke kind of failed as a Jedi, and
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: they chose each other in the end. But you know,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: like a failure it makes a character interesting. But I
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: just saying, like this writer also made the point of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: it's it's intriguing that we're seeing this play out many
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: times in this universe. It is indeed intriguing. You're right,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you are correct, You are correct. As much as I
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: have been complaining about it and We're big proponents of
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: being cognizant of your media and the messages you send.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I do love the trope on fan fiction. Usually in
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: fan fiction it's less violent, usually not always, but usually
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it's more like they're very Darth Vader is very very sad.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, man, my son don't like me. I mean,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know because I haven't read the fan fiction,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: but he's sad because also he's mainly robot and it's painful,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: and it's painful. Yes, he's got a lot of reasons
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to be sad. I'm not gonna take that away from
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: him at all. Is his own doing, yes, also true. Again,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I just feel like we're so much more ready to
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: forgive these male characters that we are women characters. Um
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: And just like Refa in recent Obi one, I remember
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I paused. I was like, I already have it ready,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: but I want to wait because I think there's gonna
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: be a reaction and to the final episode, and I
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: want to see if I if I'm right. And when
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I thought was gonna happen, was people were going to
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: how to say this at this point, they were going
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to look for a reason for her to die, no
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: matter what, like they wanted her to die no matter what,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Whereas with I feel like with Darth Vader, people would
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: be more like trying to find a way where he
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: could live. Um and we've talked about that too, where
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: like a lot of these sad murder dads never actually
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: have to do the work of the redemption part. They
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: just die. They die, yeah, and then they don't have
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: to deal with all the fallout. Um. Like, I think
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that's still a powerful story of you know, oh yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: forgiveness whatever I make it. I'm making it sound really trite,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: but I do think it's really it's a powerful story.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: But ultimately you died before you had to deal with
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the fall out the reality of mm hmmm. So yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: those are just my thoughts on this trope that I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: frequently run across in Vanishtion. And I do think it's
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: very interesting because I think it's everywhere. Um, I think
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: it's I think it's very popular in pop culture. I
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: even saw kind of in The Boys, which I just watched.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, huh, there it is, there it is.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: It shows up in a few different ways, it really does.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: The Boys is a whole different commentary because the first
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: couple of seasons were about mommy issues and now it's
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: gone on to daddy issues. So it's true the white spectrum,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Well prass will return, and we definitely do have something
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: coming up that we're excited to talk about with the
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: depiction of mothers in media in recent media, recent media. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: so we're excited about that and uh, always excited to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: talk about these topics. So thank you and cheers. Cheers
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to Sad Murder Dam. Cheers to Sad Murder if you
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: were oh gosh, if you're around, I guess no, please stop,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: and cheers to you for listening. As always, if there's
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: a topic you would like for us to cover, please
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: let us know. You can emails that stuff media mom
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: stuff at I hurt me dot com. You can viend
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Mom's podcast or Instagram that stuff
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I never told you things. It's always you are super producer, Christina.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: never told you. The subjection to I Heart Radio for more.
• 18:05
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• 18:07
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