Latest / Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest / Stream of Consciousness #59 - Marieke Penterman - Marieke Gouda

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Stream of Consciousness #59 - Marieke Penterman - Marieke Gouda · Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, everyone, we are live with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And today I've got someone whose work has become a true Wisconsin treasure.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's a master cheesemaker.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's built something remarkable in the heart of Thorpe, Wisconsin, and she brings a level of craft and care that you can literally taste in every wheel of Guda she makes.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about her story is that it's rooted in courage, curiosity, and a deep respect for tradition.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And somehow she's managed to blend all of that into a life and a business that feels both grounded and joyful.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm here with Marika Penterman.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to dig into her journey, her craft, and the heart behind what she's built.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Marika, I'm so glad to have you on the show.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing wonderful.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have so much fun.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing better than sitting down with someone who values cheese as much as as much as I do, and the person that values making cheese as much as you do.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm super excited.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much again.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um but before we even get into cheese, I want to go back to the beginning.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if people aren't familiar with your story, uh talk just a little bit about your childhood as you were born in the Netherlands and just just kind of talk about what that looked like and paint kind of paint the picture for us.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I uh grew up on a um in about a 60 cow dairy farm uh in uh the east part of the Netherlands.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Holland fits about five times in the state of Wisconsin, just to show you a little bit the size of the country.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's very tiny.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yet we have about 18 million people in that country.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about five times smaller, yet has three times more of the people.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that puts things a little bit in perspective.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I grew up then on the east part.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my mom and dad uh started a dairy farm together.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they continued my uh father's uh dairy farm.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the only thing is they moved from one side of the town to the other side of town because um there was more land available on the other side of the town, and it started with about six uh yeah, 16 or 17 cows, and uh they continued growing that till about 65 cows, and then my brother took over the family farm and he's still continuing dairy farming.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: On my mother's side, there was already a seven-generation dairy farmer, and on my father's side, and there were about five generations, so my brother would be the sixth over there, and um the funny part I always find is that on both sides of the family, it was always the woman that were milking the cows.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have in my store, we have a uh beautiful farmstead creamery in Thorpe, and uh we have a retail store where people can come and uh well see how we make the cheese and try some of the cheeses.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then they also uh we have pictures on uh on the wall from my family, and you see my uh grandmother in a wooden shoe milking cows, um, and my dad is standing right beside her.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's um we we're I'm I'm blessed.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm coming from a very um on both sides where the women are very driven.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody else uh asked me the other day, like, where do you got it from?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's from my grandmother.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: See, in that time you didn't have the opportunity to do so.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You were supposed to stay at home and take care of the family, and it's just very exciting to see that um these days it's not determined by gender, but just by your drive, what you want to do, and that's very exciting.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely, that's so cool.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that you had such a lineage from your family, so that's awesome.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um outside again of like the dairy farm, what what kind of hobbies did you have?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Were you into like reading or music or anything other than that?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of want to get a sense of who young Marica was as well.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I I grew up on the dairy farm and it was in our DNA, but it was also um, yeah, my mom would always take us into the milking parlor.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I always wonder if if I would have grown in in this grown up in the city uh with with parents that were maybe accountants or teachers, what what uh what if I would still end up in the dairy.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I love cows and my dad, um my dad and I both had love the genetic uh part of the dairy industry.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Dairy farmers, they um you can dairy farm in so many ways, but you have to do it in a way that you really enjoy it.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see that sometimes uh one dairy farmer is uh loves more the nutritional part, or the other farmer loves more the economical part where you're really efficient.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh some dairy farmers love a beautiful cow in the barn, you know.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um you can do it in so many different ways, and uh you have to do it because you put so many hours in it, and not every hour uh is compensated.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a passion you have, and um yeah, so growing up between the cows, we we did it, we did a lot of cow shows.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um and my agriculture, my education is all in the dairy side.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um, which ended up that I did an internship uh by a dairy farm in Denmark.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Canada, and in Canada, that's where I met Rolf.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: He and his brother uh both grew up on a dairy farm in the Netherlands, um, and they wanted to both wanted to farm.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And because Holland is so tiny, there was not much of an opportunity over there.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So their only opportunity to farm would be that they would have to go abroad.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they ended up in Canada um by the looking at the farm where the where I was working that summer, and uh we always kept in contact and I told them like if he ever would find a farm across the ocean or wherever, that they should give me a call and I would come and help them out for a week or so, um, which I then did.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um they in 2002 they found a beautiful dairy farm uh in Wisconsin.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people ask me why, why Thorpe?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I always say, like, well, if you love cows, where else could you end up?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know there are other states that say that they have happy cows.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if they have happy cows, then we in Wisconsin have extremely happy cows.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, cows in general love a little bit more the colder weather, so it's not the cow that is cold, it's often the farmer that is cold.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you mentioned that.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you mentioned that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So my uh my late uncle, he he passed away, but uh he was a farmer in Wisconsin, and I remember going to the farm as a kid, and I would kind of I'm just picturing kind of you with the cows, and I'm picturing me, and I would just hang out with the cows.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds really wild, but I would like hang out with the cows and pet them and talk to them, and I don't know, it's just I think it's like the most natural thing to do there.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: The to me, a lot of people make fun of me when I say that the cow is my favorite animal, and it really is.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it has a lot of character, and on our farm, uh all our cows have a name.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know at my parents' farm all the cows had a name, but it would be then uh Honda uh 123 and Yans 11, you know, or Yet uh 54.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: But uh all our cows on our current farm have an uh unique uh unique name.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't uh sometimes we have so we have a couple marikas and we have seven of them.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So but um in general all the cows have their own name.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool because it's it's just I just have such a soft spot for animals, so I love that when you put the care and the time and the compassion into your animals, you get a better product.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, no one can argue that.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sometimes it makes me a little bit sad, but like there's a lot of misunderstandings, not a lot, but sometimes there's a misunderstanding, and I get it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes if you don't know what it uh takes to do somebody else's job, um, you sometimes come to the to wrong, misleading information or conclusions.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there was the same thing as when uh we started making cheese.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would go to the store, I would buy a piece of cheese and think, wow, that's a lot of money.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now I went through the whole thing of learning how to make cheese, and now I'm like go to the store and think that's not enough, not enough money for that piece of cheese.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, because now I know what it what it takes to make cheese.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same thing with uh dairy farmers too.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to put it in perspective like you you don't become an accountant if you hate numbers, or you don't become an um a barber if you hate working with people and hair.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, there's a reason why a dairy farmer is a dairy farmer, because that's where his passion is, and he will do everything uh to make sure that the cow has the best life because it's also his livelihood.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end, um uh if he wants to continue or we want to continue what we love doing, we have to make sure that uh we do the very best we can to make sure that the cow actually is fed before we are.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So now that we're still talking about cows, I could talk about cows all day, but could you talk about the difference between um Dutch cows and Wisconsin cows?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea, but I'm assuming there's a difference.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And how does that affect the cheese?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good question.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so the the cow we have cow breeds.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um we have holstein cows, and at home we had holstein cows.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they're pretty uh they're the same.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You have black and white holes things, you have red and white holsteins, uh, you have brown Swiss cows, um, and the world is uh without a border these days.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the DNA uh comes from from countries and they they are about the same.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: What does happen is sometimes the infrastructure in a country is different.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the Netlands had for years they had a quota system to keep the milk uh production uh in balance with the market, supply and demand.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and because of that, the volume didn't really matter for your income.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were set, you had a set volume, but where you could make more value out of your income would be when you would have a higher protein and a higher fat.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the genetics then, because of what the market was or how the infrastructure in the country was, the um genetically wise, they started breeding already a little bit earlier for the contents in the milk.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, also quality, there were quality uh rules were different over there compared to here, but it's it's often the dynamic in a country that will determine a little bit.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yet you have the same breeds, um, but the dynamic around it will sometimes determine.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember when I went to Canada, um and uh like Canada and America didn't.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Canada has a quota system too, but America did not have a quota system, does not have a quota system, and so you would get paid by volume.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the content wasn't always as important as in in Europe.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you would get paid by volume.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then the the interest of having a higher fat and a protein wasn't there um right away.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, but they are now.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the industry catches up, and uh so then it's being now driven by the industry, uh, higher fat and protein.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so yeah, but it's sometimes just yeah, uh all kinds of circumstances that play a role in.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, our hurt is half is whole scenes, a quarter is brown swiss, and then we have a quarter of uh a mixture of everything.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like Christmas morning.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a mutt, it's like a mutt, like a dog.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's funny.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh um, oh no, I oh gosh, I just wish I could come up and visit.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I do at some point, but um You should I will at some point, I promise.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I really wanted to talk about courage because it's been on my mind for quite some time because it it takes some courage to you know uproot yourself and move across the ocean to a another country.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of where did that courage come from, or did you just have that belief in yourself?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or could you just talk about what really sparked you being like, I can do this over there?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or did it just come naturally?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good question.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you're younger, you know, you're a little bit, you don't think so much, at least I'm a very impulsive person.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so sometimes I just jump with my feet first before my head goes, right?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh um, and it has brought me um uh often out of my comfort zone, and that has not been a bad thing either.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but I always say, like, so Rolf already made the decision to go to America.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did always thought I would end up somewhere uh outside the Netherlands too.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just I always said like I followed you half the world, and then um we ended up in America because America truly still is a land of opportunities, and um, and we're grateful for what we have been able to do over here.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's awesome, and clearly you uh you still like it there because you're still here.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then you do get older and you do like when you're younger, you don't always realize all the things this the stuff that you do, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I don't call this a stupid decision, but um you your um family and friends, I think as you get older you think, oh man, well, it would be I I it's not fun to miss out all the parties at home either.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I meet some really nice friends over here too.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but also like you can easily go back and forth a little bit easier now than um than in the earlier days.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I wanted to kind of pick your brain on this because obviously you grew up in and I don't know, there's so many names Netherlands, Holland, Dutch, I don't know what the right one is.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um but so when you're identifying yourself, and there doesn't have to be a 100%, but uh I guess what does it mean being Dutch and what does it mean being Wisconsin?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because I consider you Wisconsin as well.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So like what do those two mean to you?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um what does that mean to me?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um well I do have to say, like, I always feel like I have a foot in the Netherlands and I have a foot here in Wisconsin.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Wisconsin, uh for me, the first word was opportunities, um uh uh uh new adventure, and um and then the Netherland still feels like partly to be home too.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have two homes now, so but I think once you your roots are loose, uh you you consider a lot of places your home.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair enough, and I think um I don't know, and I can't speak for you, but being in Wisconsin now has to feel a little bit like home because you're still doing what you were doing as a kid.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just in a different place, I guess.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just like to hear that because I again only lived in Wisconsin for like five years, but I consider myself a Wisconsinite through and through.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I have my Milwaukee Bucks shirt on right now.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is awesome.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wanted to see your shirt too because I loved that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: What is Oh man, I need to get one of those.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, isn't that awesome?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really proud of it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: The uh it was a gift and um it says raw milk rock star.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I really want to dive into kind of your credentials because I know you're one of four female Wisconsin master cheesemakers, which is something to be super proud of, not just because you're a woman, but because that is an incredible process.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I just kind of want you to explain to my listeners what that means being a master cheesemaker, because it's not just a a title, it's not a label, like you seriously earned and studied, and just kind of talk about what that process was like.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, um, it was quite the process.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I sorry, my mind wandered off, and there goes my ADHD a little bit.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: But um you say, well, what does Wisconsin well?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if we talk about what does the cheese industry, if I have to say a word and it's related to your question here, then I would say camaraderie.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the cheese industry here in Wisconsin is so close, and uh, they were also the ones um that kind of encouraged me, supported me, uh, pushed me um to make this next step.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um I cannot say enough about um the culture here in the cheese industry and how they are the biggest uh cheerleaders uh for another.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, without that support, I probably like would have pushed this master cheesemaker program out a little bit longer, even.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: But um everybody was so uh incredible and like Marika, we got to do this.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yes, I do, I do.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: But there's always so much, you know, and we have five uh children, and uh when we started, um like there were very little, even the youngest were not even born.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always you can always find an excuse, you know.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're busy with the farm and and making cheese and with the kids, and um, so yeah, but there was a point that I couldn't go around it, and they kept asking me now so often that I'm like, yes, I really will.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe I was a little bit afraid too, because well, am I good enough, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and you have to you write, you write an application, they look it over, they have a committee, they go over your application, then they come to your place, to your creamery, and um you have um yeah um a one-on-two kind of where they ask you questions to make sure that you do know some basics and a little bit more than just the basics, uh, to qualify to get into this three-year program uh to become a master cheesemaker.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you pick well which kind of cheese you want to apply for.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, it's always been Guda and it always will be Guda.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I picked my Guda that I wanted to be a master in.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um then every year you had to do so many courses, and uh they come um periodically uh to check to make sure that your cheese is up to standards and um and ask you more questions.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the end, um there was an um they came again and you had to do this um problem solving case, and then if you answer that correctly, then you can do your 84 questions like with a minimum of 40 hours, they said.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was for me way more than four.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, so and then then I passed on.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was 22 December 2004 when they called me, and I remember they were calling me and said, Oh, hey Marika, how are you doing?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, that depends on this phone call.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, You're doing really well.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Okay, I'm glad.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: But then the competitive side of me, I had to ask too.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, everybody passed, yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wonderful.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I said, but how did I score amongst everybody?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so yeah, I had a hundred percent.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So oh my god, yeah, I was very happy with that.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So so for a dummy from Omaha, like what would a question even look like on those exams?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, there they were all over, from um uh of course, the milk, the cultures, the rennets, um um oh, like what would you do in a certain case?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um um, oh yeah, it was all over the place.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it is an open book, so you can go and try to find it between all your books that you have.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: You had to go through it, and um, yeah, it was yeah, learned a lot.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have now my I call it my little Bible.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I printed it out like every little I might need to buy a copy of that.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well no, but seriously, so I just wanted to tell.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: my audience just I think like I mentioned before I asked that question how it's not a label it's not a giveaway how much time and effort and like you are a true cheese legend and crafter like and that does not go unnoticed so when you're you know biting into one of your one of your cheeses I just want my audience to know that it doesn't just happen it takes a lot of hard work and things like that because I don't know we take our cheese seriously here so I just think it's awesome that you got that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well thank you I still consider myself a lucky cheesemaker.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love uh the feel of the curd and I feel like the curd is telling me when it's ready.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of things can change like your your water temperature might not be up to um where you want it to be so then you need to determine if you wash it a little bit longer or how you then the calm well um how you deviate from the whole thing again and make sure that the outcome is always the same because consistency is very important to us.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: If if somebody goes to the store and they well buy we are farmstead handcrafted artisan uh teas so we are premium teas um but they I want them to give this premium experience too and if they like it I want to make sure that next week when they come that they don't think what is this this is way different than from last week.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So consistency for us is really big and um that's why we have we have one milk source and that's only our own milk cows.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when the cows get milk that milk goes straight through a pipeline uh under the ground into our cheese vet and we make it within six hours into cheese and um so there's about as fresh as they can get yes yes I actually think we have a Guinness book of records going on.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: But like there's minimum damage from transportation minimum damage from temperature differences.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel that all adds on like any other way is totally fine too and you have a wonderful cheese.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just think like we we have that we are fortunate that we have that and that that can add on to a fuller flavor.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah so that's then that's why we're not afraid to do a raw milk product on top of that.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And just to make sure um we uh hold it for 60 days that's that's a rule and then we do an in-house testing to make sure too before we release it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then um yeah we just do everything to make sure uh it's still a safe product but I feel like your body can digest it so much better because it's like it's a full flavor it's yes.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well that's perfect.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was actually just gonna ask you I didn't even have it on my outline I don't know why um I just want you to explain how to make cheese I've asked this question to several cheesemakers but I love to hear everyone's uh process you don't have to give any any secrets away or anything like that but just dumb it down to just how to make a block of goud cheese or a a uh a wheel of goeta cheese.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna correct you because what is so typical about gouda is the wheel shape but no um yeah well it all starts like it's one basic thing like where we all start with milk and we all start with with cultures um and then uh we add our rena to it and and that that's all it's that's all the basic of it um and then you you determine a little bit the size of your curds and and when you want to cut the curd um so those then the little differences start already a little bit um and with GUDA um after 30 minutes after we add the rennet we start cutting around 30 minutes and then um we cut for about 10 minutes um then we let it uh still ripen a little bit floating it and then we start draining some of the whey um and that's that's an important difference with gouda versus say for an example cheddar um uh gouda is a water wash curd and where cheddar will ripen uh in the in the whey gouda will we drain some of the whey and then we add hot water to it so we um rise the temperature and we add water to it and um and then between gouda and gouda cheesemakers uh some cheesemakers cheesemakers will wash the curds twice um so they will wash it on a shorter time uh shorter time and they have two steps in the temperature or you wash it for a longer time um and then so that's a big difference after the curd is ready uh in our case it goes into a drain table where we do cut blocks that's uh so when we we cut the blocks not around um just to make sure that we don't have extra pieces because then you can get air between it so we have a block there we put it in a round mold and then it goes for 60 minutes under a press and it presses these beautiful round wheels um our wheels are about 20 pounds we have about 45 wheels coming out of a batch um and then the the next important difference with goa and cheddar would be like instead of adding salt within the curd we let the cheese soak up its own salt and it goes in the brine for 60 hours two and a half days where about um it's a fist roll of where 5% will get remaining um uh whey uh getting pulled out and then um 3% goes in and it also helps develop a nice rind uh around the cheese so when it then comes out we wait for about um 36 hours and then we apply our first coating layer it's a breathable I call it a paracoating it's uh it's not wax wax is very airtight um but this paracoting will let the cheese breathe um during the aging process so uh cheese lose moisture as it ages and um there's another important thing is we have wooden shells um where our cheeses lay on and with the right protocols in place it's a very safe way of doing it and then after um uh so then we put different layers on during the the affinage uh process the ripening and um and our room is about 55 Fahrenheit 50 55 Fahrenheit and has about 75% of humidity uh so that's that's higher uh more warmer temperature than you normally would like with again cheddar where you vacuum pack the block and you put it in the cooler uh our cheese has a lot of the making is one part of it but the the part after it making it is a is a big uh a lot of love tender and care involved well I again will just say everyone when you're eating this cheese hear everything she just said how that goes into or what effort it takes to make you know a a wheel of gouda it's not just boom boom I can get it so I that was just wonderfully put and I always also like to ask um I've I've watched a couple videos on what people do with their excess whey is there anything you do with your excess whey to eliminate waste and just use the most of the product as you can yes uh so part of uh our whey actually goes to a pig farmer uh a local pig farmer so he comes and picks it up uh so the the whey gets pumped under the ground back to the dairy side and it goes into a tanker over there and then the pig farmer comes and picks it up and feeds it to his pigs awesome well that's just absolute just sustainability I that's incredible yes I love that I was listening to uh I don't know if it's a podcast or a video but they actually use their way to make vodka yes so that was interesting but no I love what you're doing because that's I mean it doesn't matter if you're feeding pigs or making vodka but just not just not letting anything go to waste is is super important.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah no they have a wonderful vodka um so I told you I was gonna throw you a curveball okay here we go all right so are you familiar with Mount Rushmore yes all right so we're doing a segment that I like to call the Mount Rushmore of cheese so it it doesn't need to be a brand or anything just we're just gonna go back and forth and give kind of our top four types of cheeses and it's a lot of fun oh that is wonderful oh wow do you want to go first or do you want me to go first you go first oh man well I always start off with this because it's my favorite cheese of all time no offense it is brick cheese oh wonderful that's unique it is my favorite cheese it's uh you can get the mild put it on a nice sandwich you can get the smoked or aged and put it on a nice charcuterie board I just I just love brick cheese it's my favorite cheese i can I say let the I do hope you get it from a brick cheesemaker here in Wisconsin um well I I did already interview Joey Widmer of Witch good good good and so yeah he sent me way too much cheese um but no that is that is my favorite cheese of all time no offense again no no totally um and man I mean Joe and Joey are wonderful people what a great family okay all right your number one here we go oh my number one uh I well maybe I love Brie I I really love Brie yeah so um not a particular brand uh but there are so many wonderful Bris out there so uh a more softer ripen uh cheese it I yeah hmm could eat it any day I can respect that and I'm not doing this to suck up but honestly Gouda is on my Mount Rushmore I I think Gouda is one of the best cheeses out there.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's my wife's favorite oh it's just oh again it's just the perfect cheese you can do like anything with it I I think so too it's it's kind of funny though when I we started like I never made cheese in my whole life before I we have our 20th anniversary and it's probably I might have been about 20 years right now uh because I I made my very first batch on 22 November 2006.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So around this time um I probably went to the Netherlands and and I spent one day with one farmer uh cheesemaker and one day with another farmer cheesemaker and that was all the experience I had um so it's about 20 years ago that I witnessed how to make gouda and then in November it was um the first batch I ever made so um but what was I'm gonna oh yeah so then when I shared my idea with my neighbor neighbor Tom I said Tom I uh I'm gonna make uh gouda and he goes Gouda what is gouda he had never heard of gouda like well so and um and it's bizarre because for me there was only one kind of cheese when you come from Holland there's only one kind of cheese and that's Gouda.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so then I had to explain him what Gouda was and then the next question that Tom asked me was like uh but uh Marika did you really thought this through are you are you sure there are enough duchies in this area that will buy it oh my gosh yeah and his wife worked for us for a couple years and he got completely hooked to go and you know so it's funny how the tables turn but that is how unknown gouda was so it always makes my heart happy if I hear that people love Gouda and I'm like oh see they're more than just Dutchies that buy it oh no yeah it's again I I like cheeses that are versatile um I mean all you can do a lot with all cheeses but I just think yeah Gouda is Gouda is good.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I can say.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: But some people thought it was made from goat's milk which there is a small percentage that well there is made from goat's milk and uh yeah like and they thought it was only for Dutch people or something are sometimes when they would have a bad gouda we have some bad gouds around there too I mean just like once in a while you run into a bad brick right so um yeah you have different kind but it doesn't mean you have to hate you have to hate the whole old um cheese variety it's cute.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So all right you're up number two yeah gouda like I love gouda that's why I started it actually it should be my number one I'm kind of embarrassed I did not say guda right away so can we resave this whole podcast please clearly we know you love gouda don't worry about it oh gosh my number three I actually was just introduced to it like I've heard of it I just had never really eaten it um so I was interviewing Ellie who's the sales manager at Carvalley Cheese and they had sent me some fontina oh there you go that is good too and I just made a simple pasta bake I just had you know pasta and sauce and shredded the fontina in it and oh my god it was so melty it was just so delicious so yeah I have Fontina is my number three now oh interesting Fontina yeah that that scores high too it's not gonna be my number three my number three is gonna be beretta I love beretta oh yeah you've heard of that yeah oh it's so good and it's on salad I make this uh caprice salad with it and uh yeah I could just gobble it up gosh I always struggle with my number four because I'm torn it's kind of underrated but I like a good monster well that doesn't surprise me now if you say break washing number one why not monster second right your third then but oh that is funny yeah you haven't got a good monster that is an interesting choice I feel like it's just very underrated uh but you have to have a certain taste for it too right oh gosh just what would you do with it what would you do with it oh I can shred it in a mac and cheese I can I can put it on a like again a nice deli sandwich I'm a huge deli sandwich fan I don't know why I keep saying that but I'm a huge deli sandwich fan and then I do have a consolation if there were five people I might rushmore okay just fresh just just fresh mozzarella oh yes that is good that is really good so so you can give me your four and a consolation if you'd like um I do like well it's it's um and it's like it's a Dutch um uh Dutch variety towards um uh a Swiss yeah yeah it's um it's a big wheel big eyes and it has that sweeter note to it so but more towards a guru still so it's a Dutch style um Swiss yeah Maaslander Maaslander yeah okay I like that one well I think that's a pretty good Mount Rushmore I think so too and blue where where are you with the blues though?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: How did you do this podcast and then and not tell Nelson you like the blue well I I I don't mind blue oh Marika You might have to cut now I can do all that in editing it's fine but I I I don't really mind blue cheese it's just I think I need to explore kind of just how to prepare it better maybe I don't know like obviously I'll eat like because I'm an American I'll eat chicken wings with like a blue cheese dressing but like I just have never really wanted to buy a thing of blue cheese and it's not because it's not good.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: No well if you take your chances right so the chance that you run into uh a good brick might be higher than well for me with my Goudas I um it's rarely now that I run into a bad gouda right I do feel with blue cheeses I still have a 50-50 so yeah and again I don't mind it it's just I never like if I'm going to the store like I just I'm just never like I'm gonna pick up some blue cheese um it also sucks because I'm in Nebraska and growing up in Wisconsin you can go to all these awesome creameries and dairies like you and we don't really have that here so you're kind of stuck with whatever you know the grocery stores may I ask where what grocery stores are you going to where do you shop well so there's uh we have hive obviously and then um so it's a Kroger store it's called Baker's is the other main one yeah those are the two um main ones that we would shop at but oh I can't wait to place an order for your cheese oh yeah well and we would love to send you something too so yeah um so yeah well that segment was fun I always love hearing people like you especially a master cheesemaker talk about their favorite cheeses um so I'm gonna ask kind of an interesting question and we touched on it a little bit earlier so obviously you grew up in the Netherlands and you're now in Wisconsin but when you make a cheese now what does home taste like to you is it still like that one foot in the Netherlands and the one foot in Wisconsin or kind of how does that look like uh how okay how the cheese well uh for me it was a little bit like it's a comfort food at that time too because it reminded me of home and um I actually started making cheese because I wanted to do something for myself before I turned 30 and we had the good Wisconsin milk and I was missing my cheese from Holland.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh one night there was a cow calfing and that's where I came like I would say with the birth of that calf I came up with let's make Guda.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what it then was involved was more like well I really wanted to start a business and I was missing my cheese and it gave me something to do.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And now well it's um now it's fun to see that same reaction or the same with other people when they um uh people that are from the Netherlands for an example when Dutch people come and they try some of my Gouda or go um that they say hey this is actually better than at home or it tastes like home um or when Americans are like when people go visit America and they they taste some good over there and think ah we have way better gouda here now in Wisconsin you know like it is so fun to be part of somebody's um happy moment uh I cannot explain that that makes me happy that makes me feel um like I contribute to my home here in Wisconsin and um yeah it it's it's um it's giving me way more than I ever could consider like the way I started making cheese and and how we through the 20 years continue growing but that I now can make other people feel um any moment that they miss the Netherlands or just give them an experience from the Netherlands uh through our cheese um is very um uh how do you say or very like that makes me it's almost like a dopamine reset for me.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah no absolutely I I love that you said that because the purpose of my podcast is to shrink The world.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of my motto.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what you're doing.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're bringing a piece of your culture, your heritage to another place.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's shrinking the world.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what it's doing.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm just I was just I'm just so proud of you.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really am.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um gosh, I get a little emotional sometimes.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Keep it together, Dan.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I before we sign off, I wanted to really talk about just the relationships between the cheesemakers in Wisconsin because everyone I talk to, oh, I know him, I know her, they're amazing.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're you know, we share ideas, we support each other.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like you still want to obviously be successful, but just what does that mean when you have like that that support system within your industry?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: That feels like home.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: That definitely feels like home.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, like there's a certain camaraderie, we have each other's back, uh, we want uh everybody to do well, and wherever we can, we will help each other out.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's that's a sh uh a way of uh uh a feeling of security.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um that is needed in uh because life is a roller coaster, and and um when you're when you're up, that's wonderful, but when you're down, you need you need uh your people, you need your network uh to make sure that you continue you continue that roller coaster.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: So no, I absolutely love that.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh last question is kind of just looking ahead.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have anything in store?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you trying to um maybe expand on your uh product line or just kind of where is uh Marika Guda going in the next couple of years?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we want to be the notorious Guda um in the world, and uh and we want to be um, and I know a lot of uh creameries and cheesemakers do it already, but I want to give back through our cheese.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we want to be a Gouda with a purpose, and um uh where we I hope I will be in everybody's refrigerator at least once, and um uh that's that's where we're gonna do.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's a little bit the long-term goals.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: The shorter term is like, yeah, we are gonna look at some unique flavors, or um, there are some other fun stuff already in the in the crock pot uh going on in the cheese vet.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I should say cheese vet.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh yeah, it's it's exciting.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: The future is bright and exciting, and uh we have an amazing team.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot say enough about our team um because the biggest capital in a company are still the people that believe in it, what you believe in, and uh the customers that support you, um, and the cheese industry.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about people and cows.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those are my two favorite things in the world, people and cows.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they go very well together.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I said that was the last question.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to be able to tell everyone where to buy your cheese because, like you said, everyone deserves a wheel or a wedge of your cheese in their refrigerator.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, where can they purchase your cheese?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, well, they can come and visit us, of course, in Thorpe, Wisconsin if they ever want to do a nice um road trip.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are we have a farmstead where they can see how we milk the cows and then see how we make the milk into cheese.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they can educate themselves a little bit, uh, what that all entails.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they also uh can go to the several grocery stores in the area.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if they uh not see us in in the grocery that they shop, um, they definitely should complain about it because now you're a Marikaguda ambassador and it's part of your job uh to help us grow.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, but yeah, I always Oh, I will.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: I always say go to your local grocery if you don't see us, just ask them where where our cheese is.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: So they might listen more to you than to me.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I doubt that.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: But oh my goodness.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I had so much fun today, Marika.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you joining me today.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, just your story, your craft, the heart you bring to everything you make.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really truly inspiring.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, for for anyone listening who hasn't tried her cheese, which is ridiculous, uh, this is the perfect time.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: So Marika Gouda has earned some of the highest honors in the industry.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Multiple international awards.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: She is a Wisconsin master cheesemaker.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So please, as she said, go to your local grocery store.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Tell her you need Marika Gouda at your store, and check out Marikaguda.com or at Chops all aqua all across Wisconsin and beyond.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Support a truly world class cheesemaker and taste the work we talked about today.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Marika, thank you so much.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: This was such a joy.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Dan.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: So