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History of the Steelers-Bengals Rivalry · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:01
SPEAKER_03: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:04
SPEAKER_03: I am your co-host, Tim Hannon, and with me as always, Steve Wirt.
0:08
SPEAKER_03: That's me.
0:25
SPEAKER_03: So, Steve, this week the Steelers play the Bengals.
0:30
SPEAKER_03: And I thought it would be a good time to look back on the history of this rivalry.
0:36
SPEAKER_03: I think when you think of Steeler rivalries, you know, you think of the Ravens and the Browns and going back a few years, the Oakland Raiders or even the even the Dallas Cowboys.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: And you don't always put the Bengals at the top of the rivalry list, but they're they're a team that has always been there for the Steelers.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: In fact, the Bengals are the only team since the AFL NFL merger that have been in a division with the Steelers the entire time.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: So that means that the Steelers and Bengals have played each other more times since the merger than either of those teams has played any other team.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: Pittsburgh leads the series 67 to 36, so what's that?
1:21
SPEAKER_03: You know, basically the Steelers have won two out of every three.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: So the Steelers have definitely owned the series, but it doesn't mean there haven't been some you know close games and definitely some stretches stretches where the rivalry was more evenly matched.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: And the way that I thought I'd go through this is to break it up into the five decades that these teams have been playing each other, so we kind of go one decade at a time.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: So before we do that, Steve, you know, your just your general thoughts on the Bengals rivalry.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals?
1:51
SPEAKER_02: The Bengals franchise or the rivalry with the Steelers.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: But I mean the both.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, the Bengals as a franchise haven't had much success, unfortunately, for Cincinnati and people in Kentucky.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: And uh maybe that's because they've been in a division with the six-time Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's because you know they're they haven't been run the best over the years.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: But um I think we'll get more into their history to begin with.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And but it's just the Bengals are just like one of those teams.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: Every once in a while they'll jump up and beat the Steelers, but like like you said, like nine times out of ten, it seems like when it matters, they can they're just one of those teams the Steelers seem to beat.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: I I don't ever really remember a big Bangles, like where it's like, oh, heartbreaking Bengals loss.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: And there's definitely been at least a couple of those with the Browns where the Steelers needed to win the game and the Browns were kind of in their way.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: At least, you know, no less this last year in the playoffs, but even before that, the Eric Metcalf game and stuff like that.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's there's a few times.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: We'll we'll go through it.
3:06
SPEAKER_03: There's definitely a few times where the Bengals have gotten the better of the Steelers, but yeah, by and large, it's it's been more a more one-sided rivalry, but um again, still still, I think, a lot of good history and some some memorable moments.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: So let's let's start, like I said, we're gonna do this by decade.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: Let's start in the 1970s, and let's actually start with the year 1970, because that's the year that the AFL and NFL merge.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: And the Steelers and Bengals, who have never played each other before this, are both placed in the AFC Central Division, where they'll play each other now twice a year.
3:39
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals were a relatively new team at that point.
3:42
SPEAKER_03: They had been founded in the 1960s by Paul Brown.
3:45
SPEAKER_03: He's the same guy who founded the Cleveland Browns.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like his hate, his hate team for the Browns after he got fired by Art Model.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: He just like started like, well, I'm gonna show you Art Model.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna start my own franchise in Cincinnati, eh?
4:02
SPEAKER_03: And it was and it was weird too.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: He actually the Bengals have like the exact same uniforms as the Browns for a lot of years.
4:09
SPEAKER_03: They eventually change and they go to those striped helmets and everything.
4:13
SPEAKER_03: But they had these plain orange helmets and orange and white uniforms, and and they wasn't completely plain like the Browns, it just said the word Bengals on them.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: But when they when those, if you look at like footage from the 1970s of those two teams playing each other, it looks like an inter squad game.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: It does, it does.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just it's just kind of funny how like there's like a whole NFL franchise was just started just because he hated the Browns and Art Model.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: Yes, as NFL franchise found it out found it out of spite.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_03: So in 1970, um, not only are those two teams put in the newly formed AFC, they're also both moving into new stadiums.
4:54
SPEAKER_03: Three River Stadium in Pittsburgh and Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: And what's funny about those two stadiums is they're almost completely identical.
5:03
SPEAKER_03: Uh there were two other stadiums, Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia and Bush Stadium in St.
5:08
SPEAKER_03: Louis, that were also very similar.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, this was this was during a time when cookie cutter multi-purpose stadiums were very popular that could host football and baseball.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: And and this design, you know, whatever this design was, I mean, it's very similar, Steve.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: If you if you you know live in a live in a um housing plan, you know, there's probably three other houses in the housing plan that look exactly like yours, the exact same floor plan and aesthetics.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: And that that was kind of the design for stadiums back then.
5:38
SPEAKER_03: So three rivers and riverfront, I mean, when you saw them on TV, it was hard to tell, you know, who was playing at home.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's gotten that way with baseball now, too.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: I've noticed like ever since PNC Park came out, it's like I don't know if they use the same architecture firm or something, but like they literally have to put names.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Like used to be like when you played at PNC Park, you could tell, oh, you have that little wall behind them, that's the distinctive look of PNC Park.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: And even Dodger Stadium, you can, but boy, now they have to put the names of the ballparks behind the thing, or you wouldn't know you know one stadium for another.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know that football stadiums really have like baseball stadiums because every football stadium's kind of the same.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if there's the same kind of aesthetic going on, but yeah.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: They do have the Eskaloser.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: I know that's not yet, that's in the new stadium.
6:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: We'll we'll we'll we can talk about that.
6:33
SPEAKER_03: When we talk about their their current stadium, yeah, the Escaloser.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: So so you think of the 70s obviously as a decade that the Steelers owned.
6:42
SPEAKER_03: But in the in the early 70s, the Steelers Steelers are actually still building, and the Bengals had a pretty good team.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh Cincinnati wins the division twice in the early 70s.
6:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh so they're they're actually the first team that's that's good in that division, but it's pretty short-lived.
6:59
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers, of course, become one of the greatest teams of all time, and the rest of the decade belongs to them.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: Now, that doesn't mean that the Bengals totally sucked.
7:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh, they have a quarterback during this era named Ken Anderson, who is a borderline Hall of Famer.
7:13
SPEAKER_03: A lot of people argue that he should be in the Hall of Fame.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: He leads league in passing yards twice.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: He's even named the league MVP at one point.
7:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh, he just kind of has the unfortunate position of being in the same division as the 1970s Steelers defense.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: And and and really, you know, one season that really um can just summarize everything.
7:33
SPEAKER_03: 1976.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals only lose four games all season.
7:38
SPEAKER_03: But two of them are to the Steelers, and as a result, they missed the playoffs.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: So they went 12 and 2 and missed the playoffs, or no?
7:46
SPEAKER_02: 10 and 4.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Because there was only 14 games back then.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: That's right, yeah, that's what I'm thinking of.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:51
SPEAKER_03: But but but still, I mean, could you imagine you know, the Steelers last last year in the um 2020, they they lost four games, and they were the number three seed in the playoffs.
8:02
SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine losing four games and not even being in the playoffs?
8:05
SPEAKER_03: And and really, that was by that was the you they only had one wild card back then, and so you really it was really important to win your division, and because they lost both the games to the Steelers, they didn't win the division.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's that's crazy.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: That would make me hate the Steelers, that's for sure.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: Yes, for sure.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh 1976, also the season that Paul Brown decides to retire as head coach, but since he still owns the team, he obviously gets the name a successor, and he makes the rather dubious decision to promote his offensive line coach, a guy named Tiger Johnson, uh, instead of his offensive coordinator, who is a guy named Bill Walsh.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: And that decision will come back to haunt them, but we'll get to that later.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, whatever happened to that Walsh guy.
8:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we'll we'll find out.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: Tiger Johnson, I bet was pretty awesome, though, since I've never heard of him before like 30 seconds ago.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: It'd be pretty cool to have a football coach of the Bengals named Tiger, but aside from that That's obviously why Paul Brown picked him.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: There had to be some marketing play that he Bill Tiger.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Bill Tiger.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, we're the Bengals and we gotta go with Tiger.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Winning four Super Bowls or whatever, you know, three.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: I guess he won three.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, only three.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: He's no Tiger Johnson, he's no Tiger Johnson.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, who won zero.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: So I'm going out of a limb and saying he won zero.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't even say it.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I I'm pretty sure I don't have to look that up to tell you that you're right.
9:38
SPEAKER_03: So uh there's three games that I I want to just kind of cover from the 70s uh that that are notable.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh the the two teams played each other in the final game of the 1974 season, and the Steelers by that point had already clinched the division, and the Bengals had already been eliminated, so there was really nothing for either team to play for.
9:57
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals also had some injuries, including one to Anderson.
10:01
SPEAKER_03: So they had a backup quarterback in.
10:03
SPEAKER_03: And Paul Brown decides to essentially just kill the clock for 60 minutes.
10:08
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals run the ball literally almost every play and don't do much else.
10:12
SPEAKER_03: Paul Brown actually only calls three different plays on offense the entire game.
10:18
SPEAKER_03: So it's it's basically like a game of tech mobile, only like minus one of the plays.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: I that literally don't have Bo Jackson, so right.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, literally that's what he did.
10:28
SPEAKER_03: He called he only called three plays.
10:30
SPEAKER_03: Like and he just kept calling them over and over again.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: And the one that he calls the most often is just a run up the middle, and he calls that almost every down.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: So basically it's just like run, run, run, punt.
10:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh, they just want to like end the game and get out of there, I guess.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: And and you would think the Steelers would maybe be okay with this because it's the last game of the season, they're about to head into the playoffs, they get to kind of just coast into the playoffs, easy win, but they're actually really ticked off about it.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh after the game, Jack Ham, Joe Green, uh, a couple of other guys all kind of sound off in the press about how they really wanted a competitive game to get them ready for their playoff game the next week against Buffalo, and how they thought it was disrespectful of Cincinnati not to give them that.
11:14
SPEAKER_03: And this was a different time, you know, because now, you know, the Steelers in recent years, including last season, you know, they've they've had a number of, you know, the last game of the season means nothing, so they rest all the starters.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but back then you didn't you didn't do that.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: Um, whether it was preseason or you know, the final game of the regular season, you just didn't do that.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: And so the Steelers actually are kind of insulted by this.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, they of course go in to win the Super Bowl that year anyway, so you know, I I guess they they were still ready for the the Bills, but I just thought that was an interesting story about that game.
11:51
SPEAKER_03: That you know, Paul Brown just basically gave up and the Steelers were were mad about it.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of weird.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: That's a weird thing to do, but at the same time, like what's the difference between that and like like you said, what teams do now where they don't start anybody, they just start a bunch of scrubs and I I don't know what what to say.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: Like you you like don't you owe it to your fans to do something?
12:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, where was this game at?
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Was this in Pittsburgh or Yeah, I think it was in Pittsburgh.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: So like basically you ripped off all the Pittsburgh season ticket holders, which I guess if you're Paul Brown, you don't really care about.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean I I don't know.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Like I would feel like if it was a home game, I feel like I owe my fans at least something, you know.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: They bought a ticket and came to the game.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: It's an odd decision for an old school coach like that, too.
12:45
SPEAKER_03: Because again, this that wasn't normal at the time.
12:47
SPEAKER_03: Like you just play, like you're you're getting paid to play, you play.
12:51
SPEAKER_03: And it was just an odd decision.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and it's too, you do feel like you know, they're the fans are the customers and you owe the customers something for their money.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, you can't completely rip somebody off.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: But I guess would these customers I mean, I guess you could debate too nowadays, like would those customers be more happy if you win a meaningless game or the Super Bowl?
13:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, of course they're gonna be more happy if you win the Super Bowl, so well.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: Didn't uh didn't Billock do that, remember, one year he didn't rest anybody and they ended up losing the next week.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that was the 2003 final game of the season, and thank God he didn't, because that's what allowed us to draft Ben Rothesberger the next year.
13:34
SPEAKER_03: If we win that game, then then I think Buffalo drafts in front of us and they wanted a quarterback, and we don't get Ben.
13:39
SPEAKER_03: So Ravens.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, we would have got JP Lo Loesman, so I mean would have been all right.
13:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
13:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh another game of note, uh in 1977, the penultimate game of that season for both teams was Steelers at Bengals, and the Bengals came into that game one game behind the Steelers in the division, and Anderson throws for over 300 yards against the Steel Curtain defense and leads Cincinnati to an upset.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: And that actually puts the Bengals in first place and in control of their own destiny.
14:11
SPEAKER_03: All they have to do is beat Houston the next week, and they win the division, and the Steelers are out of the playoffs altogether.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: And again, this is in the middle of the 70s dynasty.
14:21
SPEAKER_03: They they were about to knock the Steelers out of the playoffs and win the division, but it doesn't happen.
14:25
SPEAKER_03: The Oilers beat the Bengals 21 to 16 in the last game of the season.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: That sends the Steelers into the playoffs instead of Cincinnati.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: And the Steelers are so appreciative that they actually take up a collection and buy every Oilers player and coach leather briefcases, which Steve is kind of an odd gift for football players.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: I I don't know why they thought leather briefcases would be a nice thank you gift, but I mean it's the thought that counts, I guess.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to who is their quarterback?
14:53
SPEAKER_02: Ah, I forget who the Oilers.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: Dan Pastorini.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: Maybe he really needed like he's like kept losing all his plays, so he had to be Bum Phillips was like, hey, you better get a briefcase to hold on them plays.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: It's like, hey, the Steelers brought me one.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Him and Earl Campbell were like, This is awesome.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just I mean Did you see Earl Campbell with a leather briefcase ever in his life?
15:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean a lot of things, a Hall of Fame running back number one, but leather briefcase just doesn't seem to fit his style.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: Big belt buckle, cowboy hat, cowboy boots, leather briefcase.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh huh.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Something doesn't work here.
15:37
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: So that was kind of a blown opportunity for the Bengals.
15:41
SPEAKER_03: And then 1979, the two teams, the game they play at Riverfront, going into that game, the Bengals are 0-6, and the Steelers are 5-1 and on their way to their fourth Super Bowl title.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: But the Bengals not only upset the Steelers, they blow them out 34-10 when they're 0-6 and the Steelers are are you know on their fourth Super Bowl season.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: So that that's kind of an interesting result there.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: Um can you imagine, Steve, what Twitter was probably like after that loss?
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I heard uh Chuck Knoll said that Jack Ham and all them, yeah, they they weren't allowed to be on Twitter that week.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: They're doing too much TikToking or something.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, Lynn Swan was just TikToking away on like the Bengals logo before the game, and that caused a big stink.
16:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, losing to an ON6 team.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: I just can't imagine the fan base just you know, fire Chuck Knoll and that's movie today.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, this is 1979, so Stan Savern might have had his radio show, Sports Beat 1979.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Stan, what's wrong with Chuck Noel and the Steelers?
16:44
SPEAKER_02: I'll hang up and listen.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: So so that was that was a definitely a big upset.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: But of course, you know, by and large, the the 70s belong to the Steelers.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: So moving into the 80s, things things definitely flip around a little bit in the 80s.
17:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh December 13th, 1981 is a big game for the for the Bengals.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: Bengals 17, Steelers 10 at Three River Stadium.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: It's really the Bengals' first meaningful win in the series, and it gives the Bengals the AFC Central Division title that year.
17:15
SPEAKER_03: Anderson completes 21 to 35 for 215-2.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: And he later says, quote, that Steelers game was one of the most satisfying of my career.
17:25
SPEAKER_03: It really felt amazing given the ramifications that came from that game, and it was the springboard for us going to our first Super Bowl.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, Ken Anderson, who played for the Bengals for many, many years, um, that was a big, big win for him.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: And it did propel them to the Super Bowl that year where they lost to Bill Walsh.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: And the 49ers.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: And and uh Ken Anderson was kind of the king of the what the dink and dunk pass before it was, you know.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they didn't really keep track of air yards back then, but I I have heard that about Ken Anderson.
17:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, that was that was the West Coast, I mean that was Bill Walsh, the West Coast offense, right?
18:02
SPEAKER_03: So I mean that was that would have been typical.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: And I guess well, I guess we'll go over that later in the podcast, but Ken Anderson actually plays a big hand in a Super Bowl win for the Steelers later, so yes, yes.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: So he does.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh 1982 is an interesting game because it's the only season in the last 50 years where these teams only met once, and that was due to the fact that there was a player strike that year, and it ends up being one of the more memorable Steelers Bengals games.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh, we covered this briefly in our uh episode we did about the 82 playoffs.
18:38
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers block a field goal.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals are going to kick the game-winning field goal.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers block a field goal to send the game into overtime, and then in overtime, Dwayne Woodruff picks off Kenny Anderson, and so the Steelers get the ball in overtime, and then this happens.
18:55
SPEAKER_05: 20 20 is the score in overtime.
19:04
SPEAKER_05: Game's over.
19:05
SPEAKER_05: Touchdown Steelers.
19:06
SPEAKER_05: John Stalwart.
19:09
SPEAKER_05: Landshot of Stalworth.
19:10
SPEAKER_05: Touchdown Steelers and Pittsburgh wins again.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: So that was a big win for the Steelers because the Bengals were the defending AFC champions at the time.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm not I'm not the um smartest football like person ever, but uh you might want to cover a Hall of Famer, you know.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was nobody within 20 yards of John Stall, and they caught that in the quarter of the end zone.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, you might want to cover a Hall of Famer there.
19:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, it it was it was the Steelers had the ball inside the five, and I think the Bengals were completely a hundred percent sold on the fact that Chuck Noel is going to run the ball here because that's what Chuck Knoll always does, and I think they just totally caught them off guard with a pass.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh the the funny thing is that so in 103 meetings that these two teams have had, only four of those games have gone into overtime, and three of them are decided on touchdown passes.
20:09
SPEAKER_03: I know one of them.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, now I know two of them, I guess.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: That one.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: There's another touchdown pass one that decided another one.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes, there's there's there's so the Steelers won three of them, and the three that the Steelers won out of those four were all decided on touchdown passes, which you just don't see that much in overtime, right?
20:26
SPEAKER_03: You usually in overtime games decided by a field goal, sometimes a a running touchdown or a turnover, but you know, the all three of those Steelers Bengals games that went into overtime were one on Steel or touchdown passes.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: So just a little fun fact there.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: What was that San Francisco game where Garrison Hurst ran for like a hundred yards?
20:44
SPEAKER_02: I guess it was.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was against the Jets in '98.
20:47
SPEAKER_03: It was a 98.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: It was a 98-yard run, I think.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: In overtime, yeah.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh so the Steelers got the best of the Bengals that day, but really the rest of the decade belongs to Cincinnati.
20:58
SPEAKER_03: They transitioned from Ken Anderson and Forrest Gregg was their coach at the time.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: They transitioned from those two guys to Boomeris Eisen and Sam Weich.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers, meanwhile, as we detailed in our 80s Steelers episode, flounder for the entire decade.
21:12
SPEAKER_03: Between 1985 and 1990, the Steelers, I'm sorry, the Bengals beat the Steelers nine out of 12 times.
21:19
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, not a lot of memorable games there, but there is one that sticks up for me.
21:23
SPEAKER_03: It's on October 26, 1986.
21:26
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers beat the Bengals 30 to 9 at the River Stadium.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: And that's surprising because the Steelers are 1-6 going into that game, while the Bengals are 5-2, and really one of the powerhouses in the AFC.
21:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but the Steelers not only win, they they win by you know 21 points.
21:43
SPEAKER_03: And and the reason it it sticks out for me is because it was the first Steelers game I ever went to.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: Um my dad had season tickets in the 70s, uh, and then when my brother and I were born, he gave them to a relative, and then I was about nine years old at that point, and he decided to start going back to the games and Taking my brother and I, and that was the first game that he took me to, and I've been going to games with my dad ever since.
22:06
SPEAKER_03: So that's a memorable one for me, October 26, 1986.
22:10
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it was a game that you know we just expected the Steelers to lose by a lot, and they win by a lot.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty cool.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's that's that's neat.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: See, and you actually remember a lot of uh anything memorable, anything still stick out all these 30 years later, or however long that is.
22:28
SPEAKER_03: I I can't say I remember much about the actual game.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: I I remember going, I remember being there, uh, and I remember you know the Steelers winning being a shock.
22:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh I can't say I remember you know who scored touchdowns or anything like that, unfortunately.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: Martin Malone threw a pass to Ouija Thompson or whoever, you know, I don't know.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: Louis Lips Louis.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: So by and large, you know, this decade was mostly a reverse of the 70s, where the Bengals were the contender and the Steelers were mostly not the contender.
23:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Bengals do make it to another Super Bowl in 1988 where they lose to Bill Walsh.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, that decision isn't haunting them at all.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: That's two Super Bowls they've single-handedly lost because they picked Tiger Johnson.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
23:17
SPEAKER_03: Yep, and they lost that one, of course, in heartbreaking fashion.
23:20
SPEAKER_03: The the Joe Montana leads the last second drive.
23:23
SPEAKER_03: And um, so the Bengals, yeah, the Bengals two Super Bowl appearances, but both times the 49ers beat them.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: There is some animosity between these two teams in the 80s.
23:33
SPEAKER_03: It's nothing quite like what's about to come some years later, but there is some animosity.
23:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh, there's an incident where Keith Gary, who's one of the Steelers' many first-round busts that decade, he literally rips the face mask off of the helmet of Ken Anderson, which nearly paralyzes Ken Anderson.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: Like he twists his neck around and he actually can't feel his legs for a while, apparently.
23:57
SPEAKER_03: It's a pretty violent play.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: A lot of people in Cincinnati were upset about that one, and you know, deservedly so.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then, you know, Steelers running back coach Dick Hoke, who who was with the Steelers for, you know, I don't know, 107 years, something like that.
24:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh, he's the one that actually gives Sam Weiss the nickname Wicky Wacky Wife after Weiss screws up a game-tying field goal attempt against the Steelers in 1987.
24:21
SPEAKER_03: So what had happened was uh the this the Steelers were up by three, there's uh only a few seconds left, but the the Bengals had the ball in the Steelers' 18-yard line, and uh instead of spiking the ball uh and then running out your field goal unit to stop the clock, I guess Weiss just ran out the field goal unit and time expired before they could ever get a kickoff.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: So the game actually ends with them having the ball in the 18-yard line.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: They've never even attempted the field goal.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: And after the game, uh Dick Hoke says, quote, wicky-wacky Weiss screws up again.
24:54
SPEAKER_03: So um that name, that nickname kind of stuck.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: And Sam Weiss, you know, as we've detailed in some of our other episodes, you know, was was a little unorthodox as a head coach for sure.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh he didn't have a ton of run-ins with Chuck Noah or the Steelers because again, you know, in that era the Steelers just weren't much competition, you know, not the same as what he had with teams like the Oilers and Browns.
25:17
SPEAKER_03: So that's the 80s.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: I never thought like Sam Weiss was that bad of a coach.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: I I remember him having that that name, but I always thought that's because he like called like crazy play calls.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: Like he would just like, you know, I don't know, third and fifteen, let's run the ball or something, you know, something weird like that.
25:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he would he would do stuff that was kind of like not breaking the rules, but kind of kind of Beliteckian, where he'd he'd figure out ways to manipulate the roles.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: Like he they had to make that rule about you you aren't allowed to like once your offensive guys are in the huddle, they have to stay in the huddle because he would wait for them to, you know, he'd he'd have like three running backs in the huddle and he'd wait for the defense to put in like all their you know goal line set and then he'd like run out the running backs and put in like three receivers, you know, just to like stuff like that.
26:07
SPEAKER_03: And and you know, stuff where they never had to have a role before that, but then they did.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: Uh like I said, kind of kind of Belichick in before Belichick.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: So they do that in college though.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know, like now they change the role too.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, cause they used to like I because I remember Pitt would always get mystified by this.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, and I remember North Carolina doing it a lot, and some other teams did it.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, if there's like a you're coming out of like a TV timeout, like you know how sometimes those are long, like they'll just huddle right on the sideline, and if you huddle on the sideline, you can have all 50 players standing there, so you don't really know who's coming out on offense, and they would just run right out to the line of scrimmage, so you would be stuck with whatever defense was out there.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: And so I I don't know, like I noticed like like you said, like I know they had to make that rule, but also there's ways around it.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: Like you'll see times where like the quarterback will stand off like five or ten yards away while they're changing players, you know.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: So like you can still substitute guys, you know, in and out, as long as you aren't in the huddle, technically, I guess.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: But I guess we don't thank Sam Weitch for all that silliness.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: He would have been proud.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh so let's move on to the 1990s.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: And in the 90s, things flip again, and boy, do they flip big this time.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: Paul Brown dies in 1991, and his son Mike takes over as owner and general manager, and he flat out sucks at both jobs.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh those are those are those are two jobs he holds to this day, by the way.
27:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh, some fun stats for the Bengals under Mike Brown's leadership for the last 30 years.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh, they're the only team with three nine game or nine game or more losing streaks.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh during his time as owner, there's been 25 NFL teams that have started a season 0-6, and the Bengals have six of those teams.
28:03
SPEAKER_03: They also have four of the 13 0-8 starts during that time.
28:07
SPEAKER_03: So 13, or I'm sorry, one-third of the 0-8 starts during that time have been Bengal teams.
28:13
SPEAKER_03: They've gone winless in October nine different times, and probably most significantly, they have zero postseason victories.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: Mike Brown is the equivalent of Bob Nutting Jr.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: You know, he's an owner that just does the absolute minimum to invest in his team, doesn't understand how to run a team, uh, doesn't understand when to bring in new coaches and when to fire people, when to um draft the appropriate talent.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he just he's not good at being an owner or a general manager.
28:47
SPEAKER_03: He definitely should not have both jobs, that's for sure.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, I and when's the last playoff game since that he won?
28:54
SPEAKER_02: I remember I think we said that in one of the pot other podcasts.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: It was 1990.
28:59
SPEAKER_03: They beat the uh Eastern Oilers.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, they beat the Oilers, okay.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the next week they lost to the Raiders in the game that Bo Jackson.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: Bo Jackson.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm thinking.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: So they have not won a playoff game since 1990.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: Right, since since Bo Jackson was in the league.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: So that's how long ago that was.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: You realize there are people that are like 30 years old that have never seen a Bengals playoff win.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's correct.
29:28
SPEAKER_03: That's that's correct.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's you answered that like a like you're on the witness stand.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes, Your Honor.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: It's a holy cow.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: The math checks out.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: That's that's a that is as bad as the Pirates.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
29:42
unknown: Yep.
29:44
SPEAKER_03: Cincinnati is the worst NFL team of the 1990s.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: They lose 108 games during that decade.
29:51
SPEAKER_03: And I think, Steve, I I I couldn't fact check this, but I I believe this is around the time that Myron Cope starts calling them the Bungles.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Bungles, yeah.
30:00
SPEAKER_03: And we talked in our last episode about how Myron Cope came up with all this stuff that would just stick for years.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: I that's one that always stuck, him calling them the bungles.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean, to this day, that the people still call them that.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Non-Steeler fans, like it doesn't even have like ESPN announcers are called the Bungles.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Steelers, meanwhile, are reborn under new head coach Bill Cower, and they're one of the more successful teams of the decade.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: So during the 1990s, the Steelers mostly owned the series, but again, that doesn't mean it's it's not competitive.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: Some memorable games from that era.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh in 1992, the Bengals drafted this quarterback out of Houston named David Klingler.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: He was the number six overall pick, super highly touted coming out of college.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: I think he had a game in college where he threw for literally like 700 yards.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: Um and and so, I mean, you know, this was going to be the next great quarterback.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: His first ever start that season is against the Steelers, and they sacked David Klingler 10 times.
31:00
SPEAKER_03: And that's I mean, that's more or less the end of David Klingler.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: Like he never amounted to much in the NFL, much like every other Cincinnati pick that decade.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: And they had so many high draft picks.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the scariest part of is like like well, they may say Achilley Smith, like that that was one of the and Kajana Carter.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't blame him that because that guy was really good in college.
31:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh he went to Penn State.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: I can blame him.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh but he but he was really good in college.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: He he he was.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: For Penn State.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Achille Smith wasn't that good in college.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: Don't draft don't draft Penn State running backs.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: That's that's unless they're name unless they're named Franco.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
31:41
SPEAKER_03: And and Larry Johnson had a pretty good career.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: But other than that, don't draft Penn State running back.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: The guy for the Giants might be alright.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if he doesn't get hurt every year.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: But we digress.
31:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh 1995, there's a Thursday night game at Three River Stadium.
31:56
SPEAKER_03: We talked about this in our '95 Steelers episode.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: Steve and I were at this game.
32:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's very miserable memory for both of us.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, Jeff Blake, this the Bengals had moved on to a quarterback named Jeff Blake at this point.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: And Jeff Blake was never a star quarterback.
32:14
SPEAKER_03: But two things, you know, he always um he threw a really pretty deep ball, and he always seemed to kill the Steelers.
32:20
SPEAKER_03: And in that game, uh boy, did he kill us.
32:23
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he just was throwing these rainbows to Darney Scott and Carl Pickens, who were their two receivers.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh and the Steelers at that time, Rod Woodson had gotten hurt.
32:34
SPEAKER_03: They had a very uh patchwork secondary, and Jeff Blake just destroyed them.
32:41
SPEAKER_03: Uh later that year, there's a rematch uh at Riverfront, and and that's another really memorable game because once again the Bengals jumped out to a huge lead, but this time the the Steelers actually come all the way back and uh score a bunch of points in the second half.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: And probably the most memorable play from that game happens uh late in the second half.
33:06
SPEAKER_03: And uh I'm gonna play the clip of it.
33:08
SPEAKER_03: It's an interesting uh clip because the announcers for NBC uh are Dick Enberg, Paul Maguire, and Phil Sims.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: And Paul McGuire and Phil Sims literally predict this play before it happens and then openly root for Cordell Stewart.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: It's a pass, it's a long pass to Cordell Stewart from Neil O'Donnell, and they actively like root for him to score during this play.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: I promise you, Phil and I have already agreed.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: I promise you that they're gonna throw the ball down the middle one time to Cordell Stewart because this guy looks like a racehorse.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: There's nobody even near him.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: You know what it is?
33:40
SPEAKER_00: He's getting in the floor as three receivers fixed.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: The defense is playing through, so nobody can explain.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's there was a loud roar when that happened.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: That wasn't just Phil Sims and Paul McGuire.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: That was that was cheering too.
34:21
unknown: Yeah.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: I do remember them.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: I remember watching that game on TV, and I remember them calling that too.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: I remember them saying, Oh, he's gonna score.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: He's running down the middle wide open.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, and that that kind of just epitomized the Bengals of that era when they're sitting up there, you know, able to predict the play because the Bengals defense was so bad.
34:41
SPEAKER_03: Uh so yeah, that was that was a memorable game and a memorable play that that kind of you know helped launch Cordell Stewart into that slash role that everybody kind of remembers him fondly as.
34:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh couple years later, there's a game again at Riverfront in 1998, and this time Neil O'Donnell, who threw that past to Cordell Stewart, he's on the Bengals and starting for the Bengals.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: He leads a 93-yard last-minute touchdown drive to beat the Steelers.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: And Carl Pickens, we mentioned him before, the receiver.
35:13
SPEAKER_03: Talk about a guy that just destroyed the Steelers.
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh, he burns Dwayne Washington twice on that final drive, once for 50 yards on a fourth down play, 50-yard gain.
35:24
SPEAKER_03: And then again on a game-winning touchdown throw from Neil, which came on on a of all things, a fake spike play.
35:32
SPEAKER_03: Pickens finishes that game with over 200 yards receiving.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh he was very good against the Steelers, and Dwayne Washington was not very good for the Steelers.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh, yeah, I remember why I think we watched this game over your house, and it was I just remember like uh being so annoyed.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: Because it was Neil O'Donnell.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Neil O'Donnell, like, oh my gosh, of all the quarterbacks in the world, why why you?
35:55
SPEAKER_02: Why do you like wander into against us?
35:57
SPEAKER_02: And like Dwayne Washington just couldn't cover like a jump pass.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, it wasn't like Carl Pickens was just running by him, it was just like these jump balls, and like Dwayne Washington was the worst at covering a jump ball.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: It was it was bad.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was kind of Dwayne's uh you know career.
36:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:17
SPEAKER_03: Um you know, he like you said, he never that's why he lasted so long because he wasn't he didn't get burned.
36:23
SPEAKER_03: If you watched him, he would be on a guy, but he just had no like spatial awareness.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: Like he he could be there, he could be on a guy, but then the guy would still catch it for whatever reason.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: And that that was just the story of Dwayne's life, unfortunately.
36:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: So that's the 90s.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: Um again, Bengals were just beyond miserable uh in that decade, and the Steel Wars were pretty good.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: So moving into the 2000s, uh some new some new stuff for the new millennium.
36:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh, first off, you know, new stadiums for both teams.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: So Paul Brown Stadium opens in 2000, complete with the escal loser, as Steve referred to earlier.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: They have this huge escalator that um carries people kind of in and out of the upper stands.
37:09
SPEAKER_03: And you know, ESPN, because the Bengals were still bad in that era, used to just always run any anytime they would run the NFL primetime highlights, they would just always kind of end it with people filing out down the escalator like midway through the fourth quarter.
37:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh so nice stadium, but uh famous for the the the big escalator.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: And then the the year after that, Heinsfield opens in Pittsburgh in 2001.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: The first home game at Heinsfield in Heinzfield history is actually against the Bengals.
37:37
SPEAKER_03: So new stadiums, but you know, at least at first it seems to be more of the same.
37:41
SPEAKER_03: Steelers good, Bengals bad.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: In 2001, there's an interesting game late in the season at Cincinnati where the Bengals win in overtime.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: We talked about the four overtime games, and Steelers won three.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: This is the one that the Bengals won.
37:53
SPEAKER_03: It's only the third loss for the Steelers that season, and it doesn't really matter.
37:58
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't really impact their record.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Steelers were very good that year, and they were still the number one seed in the AFC playoffs, even with that loss.
38:06
SPEAKER_03: But what's interesting about that game is the reason the Steelers were were dominating the league that year is because they had built this really stealth defense, and no one else could solve it.
38:16
SPEAKER_03: But the one guy who figures out how to beat it is Cincinnati's head coach, a guy named Dick Lebeau, who you might recognize as having coached the Steelers' defense in four different Super Bowls.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh he has the offense run out of a spread formation, and John Kitna, who's the Bengals quarterback, attempts 68 passes and completes uh a lot of those for 411 yards, and and the Bengals win.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's a it's an unorthodox strategy to pass 68 times and run out of a spread formation, but it beats the Steelers, and that actually carries over into the next season.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: The first two games of the 2002 season, as we talked about in our Tommy Maddox episode, were against the Patriots and the Raiders, and they copied that strategy and they destroyed the Steelers' defense, and then everybody else was kind of onto it by then.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: And the 2002 defense became all of a sudden very easy to pass against.
39:09
SPEAKER_03: And that was kind of the end of that mini era for the Steelers.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh I don't know, I don't know who their offensive coordinator was.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: It might have been Bruce Coslet or somebody like that.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Who ended up being I think he ended up being a head coach for them for a couple years, but yeah, somebody somebody figured it out, and then nobody figured it out until later that year.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Um Charlie Weiss and Bill Belichick figured it out.
39:37
SPEAKER_03: Right.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:38
SPEAKER_03: So things really start to change in 2003.
39:43
SPEAKER_03: Uh both teams are moved to the new AFC North Division by that point, and the Bengals hire a new new head coach named Marvin Lewis.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: Marvin Lewis is from Pittsburgh, uh from Fort Carey, I think, and uh was an assistant coach for the Steelers in the 90s.
39:59
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, he's he's a guy that has a lot of Pittsburgh history.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: He's hired his head coach of the Bengals.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals also that year draft a quarterback from USC named Carson Palmer.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: Coincidentally, in the same draft, the Steelers select Palmer's roommate, a guy named Troy Palomalu.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: The next year, the Steelers draft a quarterback of their own, a kid named Ben Rothesberger from Miami of Ohio.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: And by 2005, both teams are really good.
40:25
SPEAKER_03: They both have these young stud quarterbacks, and for the first time in you know, really decades, there's actually a lot at stake when these two teams meet.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: So the team that the Bengals are building is is pretty talented, but is incredibly unlikable.
40:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they they just they stocked their team with a bunch of guys who were either like criminals or just flat-out jerks.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: They they actually had nine different players arrested in the same season.
40:53
SPEAKER_03: Nine out of a 53-man roster were spent time in jail.
40:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh, Chris Henry was one of those guys.
41:01
SPEAKER_03: When Henry was at WVU, Rich Rodriguez, the head coach at West Virginia, stated that Henry was, quote, an embarrassment to himself and to the program.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: I mean, Steve, do you do you can you imagine how hard you'd have to work to be called an embarrassment to the WVU football program?
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Like, this is none other than Rich Rodriguez.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is a a program that's like Todd Graham questioning your loyalty.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: That guy's really not loyal.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: It's like, wow, I know that's crazy.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: I wow, that that I never had heard that book before, but that that's a good one.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh I yeah, that I guess they just kind of fell into that trap.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: And the Bengals aren't the only team to fall into this.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: I think the Steelers have fallen prey to this at times.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: They just see the talent and think, well, we can reform this guy, or once he gets here, we'll be strict and we can get him to change his ways.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes that works out, but I think for my experience, most times it just is more heartache than it's worth.
42:09
SPEAKER_03: For sure, every team has fallen into that trap.
42:12
SPEAKER_03: I just the Bengals during that era seemed to stack guys that that had that that had that in the in their track record.
42:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, aside from the guys getting arrested, Chad Johnson was one of the more outspoken players on that team.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: AKA Ocho Cinco, he was very cocky, very, you know, look at me kind of player who a lot of Steelers fans, a lot of people around the NFL disliked.
42:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh TJ Huchman's auto was their other receiver.
42:42
SPEAKER_03: He famously wiped his feet with a terrible towel.
42:44
SPEAKER_03: He was another guy that was very cocky.
42:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, my favorite TJ Huchman's auto story that he told years later uh was that he uh was trash talking Troy Palomalo.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: He said something to him and swore at him and was trash talking him, and Troy turned around and said, God bless you, TJ.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: And and TJ Huchman's auto years later said, I felt so bad, and I never said anything negative to him again.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: That's one way to stop the trash talk, I guess.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
43:11
SPEAKER_03: Kill him with kindness, that's Troy for you.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: So even even TJ Huchmanzato, who was, you know, a class one kind of jerk, you know, he he even felt bad about trash talking Troy.
43:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh so 2005, the Steelers win the game at Cincinnati, but as we detailed in our 2005 trilogy episodes, the Bengals win a late season game at Hines Field, and they win the AFC North.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers have to win their final four games of the season just to squeeze into the playoffs as the number six seed, and that sets up a wild card playoff matchup at Paul Brown Stadium.
43:46
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I think we all remember what happens in that game.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: On the first drive of the game, Carson Palmer drops back to pass, Kimo Vonhoff and rolls into his leg, and that's the end of Carson Palmer, just totally shredded.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: At his knee, and he's knocked out of the game and has to go through months and months of rehab.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: And so the narrative for that game, of course, you know, is all about how Chemo, who was a former Bengal, by the way, uh, injured Palmer on purpose, and the the cheating Steelers won the game thanks to that.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: You know, they really didn't deserve it.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's kind of the narrative.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: Rarely mentioned is the fact that the backup quarterback in Cincinnati was John Kitna, who had been their starter uh before Palmer got there and who was a pretty good solid veteran.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: And also rarely mentioned is the fact that Kitna leads the Bengals to 17 first half points.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you score 17 points in a playoff game in the first half, you should be in pretty good shape, right?
44:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh but not not those Bengals.
44:49
SPEAKER_03: They reportedly get into a locker room fight at halftime.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: Allegedly, Chad Johnson and Hugh Jackson, another, you know, another winner, Hugh Jackson, are in the middle of that one.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: And and keep in mind that this is at halftime when the Bengals are in the lead.
45:04
SPEAKER_03: So just you know, their immaturity and their inability to handle any kind of adversity whatsoever just caused them to collapse.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: They surrender 17 unanswered points to the Steelers in the second half, and they're eliminated.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I don't want to underscore this too much.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: I mean, losing Palmer was big, it certainly was, and that's a hard way to, you know, to to especially on the like the third play of the game, right?
45:26
SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
45:29
SPEAKER_03: A couple of years ago, the Eagles drafted a quarterback named Carson Wentz to replace a guy named Nick Foles, and they were having a really good season.
45:36
SPEAKER_03: And you know what happened?
45:38
SPEAKER_03: Wentz got hurt, and he was out for the whole season.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: And you know what the Eagles did?
45:43
SPEAKER_03: They didn't collapse and fold, they they put Nick Foles back in, and Nick Foles won the Super Bowl against Tom Brady.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just saying that you don't always have to roll over and die because he had faced a little bit of adversity.
45:56
SPEAKER_03: But but that's that was that was that team.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: And and the thing, Steve, I really hated about that team was I always thought they were frauds.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: You know, they they thought that because they had one good season, they were like entitled to some kind of championship caliber status.
46:11
SPEAKER_03: And they like they hadn't even played the Colts or the Patriots or any of the other superpowers in the AFC.
46:16
SPEAKER_03: But but to this day, even they still insisted had Von Olafen not intentionally hurt Palmer, that they would have won the Super Bowl that year.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, uh that's just the Bengals for you.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: That's that era of Bengals at least.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: And I I don't I don't understand that kind of attitude because like you said, they never even played like the Patriots or the Colts.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Never mind beating them.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: And plus I a fun fact, uh Chemo, remember when Chemo came to the Steelers?
46:46
SPEAKER_02: Do you know how the Steelers got him?
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
46:49
SPEAKER_03: Germani Dawson.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Dermani Dawson couldn't block him, and when your Hall of Fame Center says, hey, that guy's pretty good, the Steelers like, Alright, we'll go and get him.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
46:58
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I I I just yeah, that was the Bangles, you're right.
47:04
SPEAKER_03: And and because of that, that that's for that that win has to be in my top five most satisfying wins, period.
47:14
SPEAKER_03: Any sport in my life as a Pittsburgh sports fan.
47:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and then just to hear them whine about it, Carson Palmer, the Sports Illustrated did this big cover story about uh his rehab over the offseason, and all he talked about was just how much he hates the Steelers.
47:28
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, okay, fine, obsess about us.
47:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, we were off winning the Super Bowl while you were sitting there obsessing about us.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: He cried about it too.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: Like I remember like, oh, they should have never beat the Colts and they should have never beat the Broncos, and what they do in beating the Seahawks, it's like get over yourself.
47:45
SPEAKER_02: Like you would have been able to do that.
47:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he he's he was he acted like a fan on Twitter, right?
47:51
SPEAKER_03: Like he didn't really deserve to take it.
47:53
SPEAKER_03: It's like you're the starting quarterback for the team.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: Like you worry about next season.
47:58
SPEAKER_03: Again, it's just a bunch of babies.
48:00
SPEAKER_03: It was it was so so satisfying.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not like beating Baltimore.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: Like it beating Baltimore, uh, you know, there's there's been so many huge wins against the Ravens, but but Baltimore's a well-run franchise with good players, and when you beat them, you're beat it's it's feels good because you're beating a big rival who's a really big challenge.
48:21
SPEAKER_03: The the Bengals were frauds, and it was so fun to just expose them as the frauds that they were.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I have a clip here, um, and it's it's in the clip you'll hear two things.
48:34
SPEAKER_03: You'll hear Joey Porter uh on the sidelines is kind of the seconds we're taking away, and the fans were uh starting to file out of the stadium.
48:42
SPEAKER_03: So it's Joey Porter taunting the fans.
48:45
SPEAKER_03: And then the second half of the clip is going to be Bill Cower in the locker room after that game mocking the Bengals who day chant.
48:57
SPEAKER_05: I'm tired of whooping that land.
48:59
SPEAKER_05: Don't make me time.
49:01
SPEAKER_04: Hoodie, hoodie, hoodie, we're gonna be a big deal.
49:10
SPEAKER_03: I I love that.
49:12
SPEAKER_03: That was great.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: Coward just totally, totally mocking.
49:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh that that's the Bengals.
49:18
SPEAKER_03: If you don't know, that's their big uh I don't know, Steve, what do you call it?
49:22
SPEAKER_03: Chant or cheer or whatever.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: I guess, yeah.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: I it's I always thought that was uh what what New Orleans is chant, but I guess it's Cincinnati.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's a large Cajun population in Cincinnati.
49:33
SPEAKER_02: They come up the Mississippi River that far.
49:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
49:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh whatever.
49:38
SPEAKER_03: Who cares?
49:38
SPEAKER_03: It's stupid.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: Do they stop at Cincinnati?
49:41
SPEAKER_02: Why don't they just keep coming up to Pittsburgh?
49:43
SPEAKER_03: Because it was it was just it was so fun to hear Coward mock them.
49:48
SPEAKER_03: One one last footnote from that game.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh Joey Porter, this is what he said about that game shortly afterwards.
49:55
SPEAKER_03: He said, quote, I didn't care if Palmer was hurt or not, so I was the bad guy once again.
50:01
SPEAKER_03: I laughed at their sorrows.
50:03
SPEAKER_03: Ha ha ha.
50:04
SPEAKER_03: And just keep that in mind.
50:06
SPEAKER_03: Oh, Jerry Porter.
50:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
50:08
SPEAKER_03: Just keep that in mind because uh Porter would once again factor into a Steelers-Bengals huge game many years after his career ended.
50:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of the end of that era for the Bengals, too.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: Um, there is one more very satisfying victory the next season.
50:27
SPEAKER_03: So in 2006, the Steelers don't have a very good season as defending Super Bowl champions, and they're uh way eliminated from the playoffs in the last game of the season, but they're playing in Cincinnati with a chance to eliminate the Bengals from the playoffs.
50:42
SPEAKER_03: And Bill Cower's quote before this game was something like misery loves company.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: So the Steelers had nothing to play for, but they they they could knock the Bengals out of the playoffs, and that game actually goes into overtime.
50:54
SPEAKER_03: Are you saying they called more than the same three running plays?
50:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
50:58
SPEAKER_03: Yes, they did.
50:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Bill Cower did not run the ball up the middle.
51:02
SPEAKER_03: Uh, in fact, in overtime, they did this.
51:06
SPEAKER_03: He's back, short drop, quick slant, on his way up the left sideline.
51:11
SPEAKER_05: Here goes Santonio! He is going! He is going! He's at the 10 by touchdown Pittsburgh! Touchdown Pittsburgh!
51:21
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
51:22
SPEAKER_03: So uh that's that was the end of the Bengals season that year, thanks to Santonio Holmes and the Steelers.
51:28
SPEAKER_03: And that's actually Bill Cower's final ever game as head coach.
51:32
SPEAKER_03: Uh and so his final ever play as head coach is a 67-yard touchdown reception by Holmes in overtime to eliminate the Bengals from the playoffs, and I can't think of a more fitting way for Coach Cower to go out than that.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: That's that is a quite an awesome way to go out for Coach Cower.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: I wish I wish he could have made the playoffs one last time, maybe ended on the Super Bowl, but uh good for good for Bill.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I can't see why the Bengals fans don't like the Steelers at all.
52:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean Oh, we you haven't seen anything yet.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: Could you imagine being like uh a Bengals fan that's like 60 or 70 years old?
52:08
SPEAKER_02: You've had to live through all this.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: Like there's no way you're still a fan at the end, like you've given up on the Bengals.
52:15
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you're like it's like pit football where you give up on them for a while and then they get good and you're like, oh, I'm back in again.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: Then it's like, oh, why am I a fan?
52:23
SPEAKER_02: This is like very like pit football-esque.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: Like just the pain just never stops with the Bengals.
52:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, pretty much.
52:32
SPEAKER_03: Pretty much.
52:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh speaking of the pain with the Bengals, by 2008, uh, when the Steelers are on their way to a second Super Bowl victory, the Bengals start that season 0-8.
52:42
SPEAKER_03: And there's a game on October 19th of that season where the Steelers blow out the Bengals in Cincinnati.
52:47
SPEAKER_03: That game's notable because Heinz Ward breaks the jaw of Bengals linebacker Keith Rivers on just an absolutely vicious block.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: Rivers was the Bengals' first round pick that year, and that that hit actually ends his season.
53:01
SPEAKER_03: And the NFL actually institutes a role after that called the Heinz Ward role, where I guess you're not allowed to hit people too hard or something like that.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: You're not allowed to block a guy.
53:12
SPEAKER_02: It's like a blind side block, like while going towards the goal line or something like that.
53:18
SPEAKER_02: You have to come from the side or something stupid.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: It was literally blocking too hard.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: He I I think he did get a penalty.
53:26
SPEAKER_02: I think did Heinz war get a penalty?
53:28
SPEAKER_02: I can't remember.
53:29
SPEAKER_03: He he didn't because it was legal at the time.
53:31
SPEAKER_03: Uh but then you know the NFL had to step in and play your safety, blah, blah, blah.
53:37
SPEAKER_03: So uh, but that was that was memorable.
53:40
SPEAKER_03: Um, I was I was at that game, Steve.
53:42
SPEAKER_03: My um my my dad's birthday is in October, and my brother and I, for his birthday that year, we got tickets and did a road trip to Cincinnati.
53:50
SPEAKER_03: And I I have to say, you know, Cincinnati fans, say what you want.
53:53
SPEAKER_03: They were definitely very friendly to us that day.
53:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, I remember one guy ran up, because we were all wearing our Steeler gear.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: One guy ran up to us and started yelling something about you know how the steel something negative about the Steelers, and he just kind of paused and he's like, No, not really, we suck.
54:11
SPEAKER_03: Uh in walking out of the stadium, uh there were these two guys uh that had bags over their head that were holding up this giant sign that said fire Mike Brown.
54:21
SPEAKER_03: And I had my camera with me, I was taking pictures, and I snapped a picture of those two guys, and only like months later I was looking at my pictures, and I noticed that when I snapped the pictures, one of the two guys flipped me off.
54:32
SPEAKER_03: So that was I I do you blame them?
54:36
SPEAKER_03: I no, oh no, it was it was hilarious.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: I thought it was I thought it was so funny.
54:41
SPEAKER_03: I didn't I didn't I didn't even realize it at the time until I looked at the picture.
54:45
SPEAKER_03: Uh but it was yeah, I was right.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: I'll put I'll post that picture on our website because it was it was really funny.
54:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh uh also of note in 2008, Steve, you mentioned this earlier.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: Kenny Anderson finally gets a Super Bowl ring, ironically, as the quarterback coach of the Steelers.
55:00
SPEAKER_03: So after all those years in the 70s of not being able to win a Super Bowl, you know, thanks in large part to the Steelers, uh Kenny Anderson gets a Super Bowl ring with the Steelers.
55:10
SPEAKER_03: So good on Kenny Anderson there.
55:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of weird that there's like that Dick LeBeau connection and then Kenny Anderson connection.
55:20
SPEAKER_02: So there's some weird like Bengal Steeler connections for whatever reason.
55:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
55:27
SPEAKER_03: Marvin Lewis, too, because he was on Bill Cower staff for I think I'm pretty sure he was on that 95 staff that went to the Super Bowl.
55:33
SPEAKER_03: So he he was on Bill Cower staff for a while, too.
55:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's definitely a weird thing like that.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: So I I don't know what to make of I mean maybe the NFL's just like that.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: They hire a lot of assistants from other teams and stuff, so yeah.
55:50
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
55:52
SPEAKER_03: So the uh let's go into the 2010s.
55:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh in the 2010s, the Bengals have done with the aughts.
55:59
SPEAKER_03: Done with the aughts, yep.
56:00
SPEAKER_03: And in the tens, the Bengals have a resurgence.
56:03
SPEAKER_03: They have a new group of stars, including the Red Rifle himself, Andy Dalton, quarterback, and they actually make the playoffs six times between 2009 and 2015.
56:14
SPEAKER_03: Steve, did you remember that they made the playoffs six times?
56:17
SPEAKER_02: I I do remember them being kind of mediocre in this game, which is sad because this is probably like the golden age of Cincinnati Bengals football.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: And like they're pretty mediocre.
56:29
SPEAKER_02: And people say, oh, they're like you'd want, oh, they're gonna be good.
56:31
SPEAKER_02: It's like, I don't know, they're just kind of okay.
56:34
SPEAKER_02: It's like I I I don't know.
56:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, and the same thing with Andy Dalton.
56:38
SPEAKER_02: Andy Dalton isn't a bad quarterback, but like I wouldn't put him in even the same league as like a Trent, well, he's better than Trent Dilfer, but I'm trying to think of like somebody like that's just kind of like a Nick Foles.
56:51
SPEAKER_02: Would you I I I don't know what to do.
56:53
SPEAKER_02: I'd maybe like Kirk Cousins.
56:54
SPEAKER_02: How about like somebody like Yeah, yeah, it's like he gets puts up a lot of stats, but he never really seems to win the even the big regular season games.
57:02
SPEAKER_02: Never mind a big playoff game.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
57:06
SPEAKER_02: At least Nick Foles has that going for him.
57:08
SPEAKER_02: He seems see Nick Foles is like the opposite.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: He seems like he saves all his wins for the playoffs.
57:13
SPEAKER_02: It's like you wheel him up in the playoffs, he's like Superman.
57:16
SPEAKER_03: I I just would not have guessed six playoff appearances between 09 and 15.
57:21
SPEAKER_03: I just I just wouldn't have I remember them, you know, like you said, being you know, decent, but six playoff appearances, I just wouldn't have guessed that.
57:28
SPEAKER_02: But didn't them and it seemed like them in Houston played every every wild card weekend, it was like, oh, it's Cincinnati and Houston again.
57:35
SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, okay.
57:36
SPEAKER_02: And like neither of those teams were gonna contend for the Super Bowl.
57:40
SPEAKER_02: You know that was just like, oh, okay.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: It's just like the opening preview of like before Patriots play somebody, the the second best team in the ASC that year.
57:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was like it was like the play-in game for the NCAA tournament.
57:53
unknown: Yeah.
57:54
SPEAKER_03: It's David Davidson and you know it's Seattle Central Kentucky Tech or whatever, yeah.
58:01
SPEAKER_03: Um the Steelers have a couple of down seasons, but by 2014, they're contenders again.
58:06
SPEAKER_03: And that season, 2014, the Steelers and Bengals play on the final week of the season at Heinz Field to decide a division.
58:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh both teams had already clinched the playoff spot, but that game was for the division.
58:18
SPEAKER_03: And that's that's one of the really great games that you know probably won't be always remembered.
58:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it was a super competitive game, a lot of big plays.
58:28
SPEAKER_03: Antonio Brown absolutely dominates that game.
58:31
SPEAKER_03: He has a 71-yard punt return touchdown and a 63-yard touchdown reception to ice the game late.
58:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's a great game, but unfortunately, it ends up working out badly for both teams.
58:42
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers lose Le'Veon Bell to an injury, and the Bengals lose A.J.
58:46
SPEAKER_03: Green, their star receiver.
58:48
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, both teams, the Steelers and the Bengals, lose their subsequent playoff games the next week, uh, largely due to missing their offensive stars.
58:59
SPEAKER_03: So the rivalry is back at this point, uh, and it's really starting to turn ugly.
59:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh, there's a bunch of incidents.
59:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh this is a um not totally complete list, but here's here's some of the things that were notable.
59:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh Pittsburgh linebacker Terrence Garvin.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: Remember Terrence Garvin, Steve?
59:18
SPEAKER_03: No.
59:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh no, not all.
59:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:20
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, Pittsburgh linebacker Terrence Garvin breaks the jaw and neck of Cincinnati's punter on a hit and draws a$25,000 fine from the league.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: I think that was on an Antonio Brown punt return, and Garvin just levels the Cincinnati punter, breaks his neck.
59:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh, so a lot of people in Cincinnati were upset about that one.
59:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh Mike Tomlin and Bengal safety Reggie Nelson get into it after a game.
59:45
SPEAKER_03: Tomlin was upset about a late hit.
59:47
SPEAKER_03: I think that was actually the game that I just referenced where Bell got hurt.
59:51
SPEAKER_03: And the guy that hit him was Nelson, and Tomlin felt like that was not a clean hit, and they got into it after the game.
59:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh Mike Munchak, uh Hall of Fame offensive line coach, also gets into it, into it with Nelson in a different game.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_03: And and this one was not after the game, it was actually during a game, and draws a personal foul penalty.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, pretty interesting note on Mike Munchak's career that he incurred a personal foul call 20 years after his retirement.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_02: Um I remember that Mike Munchak thing.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, didn't he like grab his hand?
1:00:25
SPEAKER_03: He grabbed his he grabbed his hair because Reggie Nelson had like dreadlocks sticking out of his helmet.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_03: And and I think Nelson kind of ran into him and Munchak took exception to it and grabbed his hair, and that that drew a flag.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_03: But that was just kind of funny.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_02: And like Munchak wasn't standing, like, you know, sometimes they stand like right at the edge of the stuff.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_02: Like he was like well into the bench, too, if I remember correctly.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_03: Nelson probably did it on purpose.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna assume that.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh well, one one guy, you know, Ray J.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_03: Nelson had some run-ins with Steelers coaches, but the guy that was really at ground zero in all this ugliness is a guy named Vontez Berfecht, Bengals linebacker.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh he knocks Le'Veon Bell out for the season in 2015 and then celebrates the hit after the play.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_03: A lot of the Steelers players were really pissed off about that one.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: Ramon Foster says, quote, that's what type of guy he is, and he'll get his.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_03: Uh Burfecht and Vince Williams and James Harrison get into a pregame skirmish before a 2015 game.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_03: Steve James Harrison's another guy that kind of crossed over between teams.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_03: He spent that year with the Bengals, remember.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_03: Uh Burfect kicks Roosevelt Nicks during a game.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and he also gets fined for dirty hits on Antonio Brown and James Conner in another game.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_03: So Vonzas Berfecht was definitely public enemy number one for the Steelers and their fans.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_03: Pretty much the whole time he played in Cincinnati.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: He he just didn't, it wasn't just the Steelers, too.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, I remember there was a game with Cam Newton in Carolina.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_02: Like, remember that he was like twisting his like foot after like a like his ankle and stuff after the play was over.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_02: And like, and the league just let that go on and on and on.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_02: Like a Steeler play, like Harrison when he's with the Steelers would like just sneeze on somebody, and the league would be like ten thousand dollar fine.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: We look perfect.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: Like at some point, don't you need to kind of go to like the soccer rule where like you've accumulated so many you know personal fouls, like in soccer, if you get so many yellow cards, they start to suspend you from games.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's what I always felt like if you're if you're really serious about player safety and blah blah blah and whatever, this isn't just wheeling window dressing, then you need to come up with a rule.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, if you get so many personal fouls, you're suspended for for a game.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_02: And then you know, so many, and then you get so many more, you're expended for six games, and then it's a year, and then it's a playoffs, or or even better, just suspend somebody for the playoffs.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, if your team makes the playoffs, or whatever team you go to, if that team makes the playoffs, you're not allowed to play in the first playoff game, whenever that is.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_02: And see, that that'll put an end to guys like him in a minute.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_02: They're either going to clean up their act or a team a team can't afford to pay a guy like that to not play in the playoffs.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_03: So so they eventually the NFL eventually does do that.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_03: It's it's not until years later, or it's when Berfecht is playing for the Raiders.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh, he hits a guy in the head for for the Colts and they suspend him for an entire rest of the season.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_03: It was in like week four or something.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they finally did something about it, but it was too little, too late.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_02: I it just they they should just come up with the policy, just a rote policy.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, you get so many personal fouls, you're out for one game, and then if you come back and you get you know one or two more, you're out for six games.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, just and then you're out for playoff games.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_02: And then that'll that'll the the guy's either gonna like just adjust his play or he's gonna be out of the league, and either one is fine with me.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_02: And I would say that if it was a stealer or whatever.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I agree.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_03: You know, making it subjective and making it, you know, NFL discipline when they feel like finally disciplining it, that's way too subjective.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: And and like you said, because of that, he was allowed to, you know, cause a lot of chaos for a lot of years.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't just with the Steelers, it was it really wasn't.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_02: It really wasn't.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_02: It was like I said, there was a and it just like like I said, it wasn't like, oh, like sometimes I remember one time Harrison hit a wide receiver from Cleveland, and it was kind of questionable, uh, maybe didn't hit him in the shoulder, maybe in the shoulder slid into his head.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_02: No, like it Cam Newton was literally laying on the ground and he's sitting there twisting his ankle.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_02: Like that's not part of any part of football.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_02: He wasn't advancing the ball, he's laying on the ground, he's already down.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: That's literally intent to injure.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't understand why.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand why he was so why the league was so lenient towards him and not other people.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_03: So Yep, totally agree.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it wasn't yeah, it wasn't like he played for New York or something.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_02: That's enough about perfect.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean you're I mean you're spot on, you're absolutely right.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_03: It's there was no reason why he should have been allowed to to cause chaos for as long as he caused chaos for.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh so the the Steelers Bengals quickly kind of becomes a cringe-worthy affair whenever they play each other.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_03: In 2015, the Bengals put together one of the best seasons that they've ever had.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_03: They go 12-4 and they win the division.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_03: And the only other times that the Bengals won that many games, they made it to the Super Bowl both times.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_03: So that was that was a banner year for the Bengals going 12 4.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers that year squeezing in the playoffs with some help on the last week of the season from the Buffalo Bills, and that sets up a second Steelers Bengals playoff game almost 10 years to the day after the first one.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_03: And oh my, is it the mother of all Steelers Bengals games?
1:05:58
SPEAKER_03: Um again, the Game is in Cincinnati just like it was a decade earlier.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_03: And again, the Bengals have a problem at quarterback.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_03: Andy Dalton had been injured before the game.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't the Steelers' fault this time.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_03: Kimovanohoff and was well retired.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_03: They have to start A.J.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_03: McCarran at quarterback.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_03: And that definitely hurts their offense.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers build a 15-0 lead into the fourth quarter, but Burfecht hits Ben with yet another cheap shot, and Ben has to be carted off the field.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_03: Classy Bengals fans, as Ben's being carted off the field, held him with beer cans.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_03: And Tier, as he's being carted off the field with a very severe shoulder injury.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_03: They thought he was uh thirsty.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm sure that was it.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh so without Ben Rothesberger, the Bengals are able to mount a huge comeback.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_03: McCarran hits A.J.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_03: Green for a go-head touchdown with two minutes left.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_03: Landry Jones is in the game for the Steelers, uh, playing like Landry Jones.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_03: He, you know, he comes in to try to lead a last second drive and he throws what is presumably a game-ending interception to of all people, Vonta's Perfect.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, did Mr.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_03: Cheap Shot artist.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_03: And it just, it's I the feeling at that moment was so low, Steve, because here the Steelers are going to lose a playoff game because Perfect took out that was the season that Perfect had taken out Le'Veon Bell.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_03: So we didn't have Le'Veon Bell because Perfect took him out.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_03: And then he takes out Ben.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_03: And then he's going to get the game-inning interception.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it just it wasn't right.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_03: It like wasn't justice.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, and too, it's like this is after the NFL, like, remember, cracked out on the Steelers for hitting people too hard.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_02: But now the Bengals are allowed to do it.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_03: It was a terrible feeling.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, what happens next will be talked about for I think generations, because it's still to this day, I can't believe it happened.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_03: So the Bengals are trying to kill the clock at this point.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_03: They're doing they run the ball with Jeremy Hill, their running back.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_03: He's stripped by Ryan Shazier, and the Steelers get the ball back.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I think, you know, if not for what happened next, that would be remembered as one of the biggest errors of all time because at that point in the game, you're just holding on to the ball.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_03: You're just trying not to fumble.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_03: You're already in field goal range.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_03: That's all you have to do.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_03: Just don't fumble, and Jeremy Hill fumbles.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: Ben then limps back out onto the field.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_03: I guess they figured that Ben Rothesberger with, you know, um 10% of his shoulder was better than Landry Jones with 100% of his shoulder.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, and and that was pretty amazing because remember, he was it wasn't that he got just got hurt, he was carted off the field.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh but he limps back on there, he attempts to lead the Steelers on a last second drive, and he does make a few plays, including a fourth down conversion, but he he can't it's pretty obvious he can't throw the ball more than five or six yards.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh so they're just trying to like think their way down the field five or six yards at a time, and that's not really working because um they they get the ball to about midfield, there's 20 seconds left, but they're out of timeouts at this point.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that means they have to throw towards the sidelines, they have to at least take a shot somewhat deep.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's also raining, which means that you know the Steelers can't exactly attempt a 40 or 50-yard field goal because the weather's ugly.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_03: So still, even with the Jeremy Hill fumble, the odds of the Steelers pulling us off are slim to none at this point.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_03: Rothelsberger attempts a pass over the middle to Brown.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_03: It's incomplete, but he's hit in the head by who else?
1:09:48
SPEAKER_03: Vontez Berfecht.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_03: Draws a 15-yard personal foul penalty.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_03: Brown is concussed on the play.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_03: He's lying on the field and being attended to.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_03: One of the guys out there helping him off the field is Joey Porter, who is now an assistant coach for the Steelers.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_03: Jerry.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_03: Jerry Porter.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_03: Jerry Porter.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh whether or not Porter is allowed to be out there is kind of up for debate.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but regardless, he's out there and he and Pac-Man Jones start jawing with each other because Porter was the bad guy again, ha ha ha.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh and Jones inexplicably tries to throw a punch at Porter from like a mile away.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_03: Like he wasn't even close to him, and he tries to just take a swing at him.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_03: He hits an official in the back of the head instead, and he gets flagged for a 15-yard penalty.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_03: So the Steelers literally get 30 yards by doing nothing.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh, they trot out rookie kicker Chris Boswell.
1:10:47
SPEAKER_03: He calmly drills the game-winning field goal, and the Steelers walk away with the victory, and the Bengals are eliminated in what was their best season since their Super Bowl year.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_03: It's I'll just say it bluntly, it's the stupidest collapse in the history of sports.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_02: I this is worse than Buckner, or I can't even think of or like Jose Lee or Francesco Rebrera or Yeah, or the Falcons losing the lead to the pay.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, those are all really badly.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_02: At least the other team made plays that the Steelers literally just stood there and got hit.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: And and and and the Berfect hit on Brown, I mean, it it if that were any other player, because sometimes, you know, on a play, on a bang bang play over in the middle, sometimes you you hit a guy in the head, it's not necessarily on purpose, you know, and they were just gonna call anything it's helmet to helmet.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_03: But that was that was the way Berfect played.
1:11:44
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't a surprise that that he would try to lead with his head.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_03: You know, and as bad as that was, Pac-Man Jones, I mean, another another fine West Virginia alum, Pac-Man Jones, you know, he what are you doing?
1:11:58
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's an assistant coach who retired years ago.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_03: Why why are you getting into a fight with him?
1:12:03
SPEAKER_03: And why in the in the name of all things holy would you throw a punch at him?
1:12:09
SPEAKER_03: I I mean, it's just the dumbest thing ever.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals have the game won.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_03: They melt down, they hand the Steelers a victory, and and you know, you talk about they talked about the top five most satisfying wins.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_03: This one's in here, too.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_03: I mean, both of those playoff games in the Bengals against the Bengals were were just in my top five most satisfying wins.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it sucked.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, Brown didn't play the next week, and Ben was hurt, and Bell was already hurt.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_03: So Perfect took out our whole offense that year, and we lost the divisional round to Denver in a really close game.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_03: However, it was worth it to just beat them in that fashion.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, if you don't remember, uh, Pac-Man Jones went on the Dan Patrick show the next week and stated that Antonio Brown was faking a uh concussion.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_02: So to beat Pac-Man Jones and the Cincinnati Bengals, the Steelers organization literally held him out against Denver just to beat you, just to prove a point that he really wasn't concussing.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_02: What kind of insane and Dan Patrick sat there and it just like didn't question it, just like sat there and accepted it with a straight face.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_02: Like I that's still to this day, and how many years ago that still annoys me?
1:13:19
SPEAKER_02: So and you people wonder why nobody takes the media serious anymore.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_02: But when you just let crap like that get said and don't even challenge it, come on, man.
1:13:29
SPEAKER_02: I that's that's the quote, yeah, uh our current president.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_02: That's ridiculous.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh though.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that was that was embarrassing.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was embarrassing enough the way they lost, but then the way they carried themselves afterwards.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_03: And then he was also very upset that you know Porter was even out there.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: Jerry Porter.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Jerry Porter.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_03: Didn't even call him the right name, didn't even know who he was.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, what's Jerry Porter doing out there?
1:13:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it it's just it was just it was the biggest embarrassment ever.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh honestly, how how Marvin Lewis was still allowed to be employed after that game is beyond my comprehension.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_03: For years.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_03: For years, yeah.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it just says everything you need to know about the ownership.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's it's you know, to to to to do another Simpsons reference, it's um Superintendent Chalmers is at the school, and the guy's like, they hire Skinner back, he'd been fired, I guess.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_03: And somebody's like, You really gonna hire that guy back?
1:14:25
SPEAKER_03: And Chalmers is like, Well, he seems to know the children's names.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_03: And that's just that seems to be that seems to be the way that Mike Brown, you know, decided to determine who coached the Bengals.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_03: Because that was that was the ugliest collapse of all time.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_03: And so the Marvin Lewis just had no control over the team.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_03: So Bengals fans are understandably devastated.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_03: That was their last best chance to win a playoff game, and they haven't even sniffed the postseason since.
1:14:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Bengals' last playoff win, as we already detailed, came in 1990 against the Houston Oilers, a team which no longer exists.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_03: Speaking of Bengals fans, that game also produced the crying Bengals lady meme.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, it was, if you've never seen that, it was basically a screenshot that from the end of that game, there was a woman in the stands um with tears literally streaming down her face with Bengals gear on, and that just became a meme for years and years.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_03: It just blew up in one of those big internet themes.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, to her credit, she actually has a pretty good sense of humor about it.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_03: She starts a Twitter feed and an Instagram account as like crying Bengals fan or something like that, and uh gains a lot of followers, actually appears in um some of Pittsburgh Dad's episodes on of his YouTube channel.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_03: So kudos to her.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_03: She kind of took something that was you know potentially very embarrassing and kind of turned it into something fun.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, and and honestly, who hasn't been there where you're devastated by your team's loss, especially my god, if you're a Bengals fan, I can't even imagine.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_02: You you just yeah, this is you you should like file for divorce from your team.
1:16:04
SPEAKER_02: You're you're you're being abused.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_02: You're you're you're just being taken advantage of at this point.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_02: It isn't fair.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean it's ridiculous.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_03: The ugliness between these two teams continues for the next couple of seasons.
1:16:19
SPEAKER_03: It really culminates in the infamous 2017 Monday night game that we talked about in our previous episode that we did about the 2017 season.
1:16:27
SPEAKER_03: It's it's I said it and then I'll say it again.
1:16:29
SPEAKER_03: It's the sickest I've ever felt watching a sporting event.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_03: Just three hours of guys taking headshots and literally trying to severely injure each other.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_03: It also results in Ryan Cazir being paralyzed and never playing again.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_03: I think the only if if there's any good takeaway from that atrocity of a football game, it's that it essentially kind of marks the end of that era.
1:16:51
SPEAKER_03: Um Perfect, as we as we said earlier, is is basically forced out of the league a few years later, and the animosity just kind of simmers down over time.
1:17:03
SPEAKER_03: So the the the 2010s, you you think about that fierce rivalry, you think about all the dirty hits and all the all the hatred between the two clubs.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_03: During the 2010s, the Steelers and Bengals played 21 times.
1:17:15
SPEAKER_03: The Bengals only won three of those.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_03: That's another thing that I would never have guessed.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_03: I just I thought it was a little more evenly matched than that.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_03: I know we mostly got the best of them, but three times in the whole decade they beat us, Steve.
1:17:28
SPEAKER_03: Did would you have guessed that?
1:17:30
SPEAKER_02: No, I thought they would have won more, but I guess in the 2010s you gotta figure.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_02: Boy, yeah, it seems like with Dalton they had a better team.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_03: They went to the playoffs six times.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_03: I yeah, you know, how many times did we go to the playoffs?
1:17:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean, not more than that.
1:17:45
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I just it was surprising.
1:17:48
SPEAKER_03: I I didn't realize they only beat us three times that whole that whole time, that whole decade.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it is three times, and we they play us twice a year, so yeah, and the playoff game, so 21 times that they played.
1:18:02
SPEAKER_02: They lost 18 of 21.
1:18:04
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_02: Yikes.
1:18:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if Jerry Porter wouldn't have been there, it only was Joey Porter.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that playoff win is like one that's gonna haunt their franchise for a while.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be a tough one to shake off.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_02: And it, you know, if they ever do, I don't know.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_03: So that that that that's kind of the history of the rivalry.
1:18:28
SPEAKER_03: Let's talk a little bit about the future.
1:18:30
SPEAKER_03: Uh right now the Bengals are are building once again.
1:18:34
SPEAKER_03: They have a young head coach, they have a potentially generational quarterback in Joe Burrow.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers' future is is kind of uncertain.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, that Ben Rothesberger is probably playing in his final season this year.
1:18:47
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, what's gonna happen in the 2020s, uh hard to say.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_03: Hard to say what's the quarterback game.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_02: Who's the quarterback of the second game for the Bengals last year?
1:18:58
SPEAKER_02: The one where the Bengals won.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't even I don't even know that guy's name.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Steelers played so bad that game.
1:19:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh, geez.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_03: Samir are not gonna work here anymore.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_03: Like that was that's yeah, somebody that that won't be around too much longer.
1:19:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_02: Joe Burrow was hurt by that point.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_03: So they actually split the series last season.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_02: Somehow the Bengals screw Joe Burrow up or something.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_02: And he's from Ohio, too, so uh Yeah, they they got the quarterback and they billed the rest of the team around them.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, they got the quarterback.
1:19:40
SPEAKER_03: They have they have really good young receivers.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_03: They just drafted that kid this year.
1:19:43
SPEAKER_03: I mean, so uh, you know, it it's it's it's kind of like the 90s where they had these top picks for a few years, and will will it pan out or will it will it not?
1:19:55
SPEAKER_03: And time will tell.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_03: And then the Steelers obviously tons of question marks there, right?
1:19:59
SPEAKER_03: Because it's gonna be the end of the Ben Rothesberger era, and what happens after that.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_03: We saw what we we definitely saw what happened for the many years between the 70s and the and Ben, where the Steelers didn't have a franchise quarterback, and that you know resulted in some success, but never a championship.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_03: So lots of question marks.
1:20:18
SPEAKER_03: Um but you know they'll they'll there'll be plenty of more Steelers Bengals moments, I'm sure, in the series.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_03: There'll be plenty of more stories and characters that grow out of this rivalry.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty much a guarantee.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_03: Steve, any last thoughts on Steelers and Bengals?
1:20:36
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully the Bengals lady doesn't have to cry too much more, but hey, you never know.
1:20:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, I kind of hope she does have to cry a lot more.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_02: You're wishing ill.
1:20:50
SPEAKER_03: Not nothing against her personally, but hopefully her team will lose a lot.
1:20:55
SPEAKER_03: All right, everybody.
1:20:56
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for listening.
1:20:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh please uh give us a review.
1:21:00
SPEAKER_03: Um please tell your friends, uh, check us out on the web or social media.
1:21:05
SPEAKER_03: Those links are all in the show description.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_03: Catch you next time.