Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #58 From High School to College: A Guide to Navigating Shifts in the Parent-Child Relationship with Drs. Annalise Caron and Suzanne Allen

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#58 From High School to College: A Guide to Navigating Shifts in the Parent-Child Relationship with Drs. Annalise Caron and Suzanne Allen · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

I'm Dr. Sarah Olivo and I'm Dr. Liz Seidler and you're listening to College is Fine. Everything's fine.All right, we are so excited to see these two. Um, you guys can't see them potentially because this is a podcast. We've got some, two lovebirds sitting here. They're joining us from one microphone. Ha ha ha ha ha. Um, no, but just kidding. They are, they're, they're a pair, but they're actually. Uh, parenting pair, they're two psychologists with so much advice to give.We have Dr. Annalise Caron and Dr. Suzanne Allen, clinical psychologists, and I'll let them introduce themselves, but I will say this, you are in for having two of the probably most sought after clinical minds in this topic, um, nationally, definitely in the New York area. So listen in and you are welcome in advance.But do you guys want to introduce yourself now that I've embarrassed you?Wow.Treasures, you?I don't think I could possibly follow that up. Um, I'm trying to think of some accolades to like match that introduction. Yeah, that's really okay. Um, anyway, my name is Dr. Annalise Karen. I'm a clinical psychologist and my colleague next to me is. Dr. Suzanne Allen, we are both clinical psychologists that treat children, adolescents and adults.We both practice a number of empirically supported treatments like cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectical behavior therapy. We have partnered for 11 years in a clinical practice in Connecticut. And so we jointly have run that practice. In addition, in the past couple of years, really since the pandemic, we created a little side project called the Parenting Pair.which really grew out of, um, I think so many people's needs during that time and a lot of parents that were not our parents of our clients, um, our child or adolescent clients that is, uh, reaching out to us and just saying, Hey, can I ask you this question or, and so we decided to just, um, you know, create some online, um, services, whether it be through Instagram or an online course that we were working on, um, to get information to parents of teens and tweens.Easy. So, I'm really excited to start kind of diving into We've had a previous episode where we did have some college students come on and talk about Relationship changes that can happen. You know, we've talked a lot. I think when people think about college, they're thinking about making friends and kind of expanding their social support system.And I think very rarely are they thinking about what they're leaving back at home and what the do's and don'ts maybe of like nurturing those relationships or navigating some of the changes that. Can happen. So can you speak a little bit to any relationship obstacles that can happen for college students when they transition to school?And you know, we're in, I'd love to hear about the parent child relationship , what are some unexpected issues that might come up that might be helpful for families to think about before they transition to school.I mean, this is such a great question. I think there's so much energy that young people and their parents put into You know, just through the college process of, of getting prepared and, and test taking and applications or visiting schools or, you know, whatever those things are that they're working towards.And then all of a sudden they get in and it's exciting and they're planning for that process and, and then it's buying the bedding and figuring out this and getting a roommate. And there's so, so many things to do that I often don't think there's, there's time or kind of wherewithal. Um, to even begin asking some of those questions about, you know, how are we going to communicate when I go to school?What, what do you expect from me or what do I expect from you? And in all fairness, you know, for many families, this is new experience for young people. This is new experience. So to even know, to ask those questions of, How often should I reach out to you? Um, do you expect me to say good morning every day?You know, with all this modern technology, you know, many families are using things like Life360 or other apps where they're tracking their teens in high school. That question of Are my parents going to track me when I go to college and still be watching where I am or how fast I'm driving? And all of these things, Suzanne, that you just mentioned are, um, you know, you mentioned the busyness before going to college.You know, all of, probably most college students and most parents aren't really thinking about it. But in the back of their mind, if they did, They have an idea. And maybe that idea is, I'll pretend to be the parent. You could pretend to be the, you know, the young adult. Maybe my idea is, oh, everything's going to stay the same.I'm going to text all the time. I'm going to follow them on Life 360. You know, I'm going to hear the download about the date. You know, and, and, So, so maybe that's what I'm thinking or maybe the parent is thinking, you know, it'll be like when I went to college and We'll talk on Sunday nights and they'll have a calling call calling card to do that and it's really expensive And so we're gonna get off the phone at 18 minutes because it's really expensive Yeah, and go get them from Costco and so and and they'll just deal with it, right and and there's this third So so that's maybe so those expectations, kind of inform, and we don't always say those out loud so if you're the college student what are a couple of perspectives you might imagine having?Probably that. You know I think a lot of young people like, wow, like I'm gonna be off on my own. I'm going to Go here or there without anyone wondering where I am except maybe my roommates or my friends. Um, I'll get up and roll out of bed and get to class and not necessarily text my parents to let them know that I'm up or I've done something or at night.On the other hand, you know, some young people may be, you know, have a dynamic with their parents where they get a little bit more support more frequently or reach out during the day if a grade or something is frustrating. So they might expect that to continue. And I think you're right that. Those expectations, what can happen sometimes is when those aren't communicated or discussed either beforehand or during, it can lead to hurt feelings or distress and conflict and, and then parents or young people might respond to each other in ways that then the other gets defensive or upset and then we're having conflict about it.Versus kind of talking through some of these things beforehand, IYou exactly described the experience that the college girls we interviewed about this very topic said that they went in, things hadn't been expected, um, or discussed or communicated, and, and the parents were like, oh yeah, no, we're all gonna still be best friends, and their parents feelings were hurt, and they weren't.You know, callous about that, but certainly they also weren't really willing to accommodate as much as the parents might have wanted. And they all said it took a couple of years to get to that place of kind of learning and figuring it out and different conversations, you know, values, changing ideas, growing, you know, um, as they sort of expanded and the parents were like, no, hold on.So, , no, I think that, and they all said. I wish we had communicated it, we didn't need that two years of a learning curve, right, if we had gotten ahead of this. Where have you seen families successfully navigate this when they do communicate? You know, in so many different ways, I think there are some families that naturally are more communicative or have that in their back pocket, or we're used to doing that, you know, during the high school years or adolescence, and they may have an easier time. I think, um, the young people who maybe, you know, didn't have as, you know, open relationships with their parents or, um.Um. You know, maybe just we're a little more private. It sometimes is harder for, for those young people to be able to address this or even more, , I don't know if I would say more traditional parenting rules, you know, parents in charge, you know, the young person is supposed to follow what the parent wants.The families that have that sort of, , when the Children are younger or have that sort of model for teenagers, I think those Young people or students have a harder time communicating around some of this stuff. Yeah, and I think the dynamics between parents and young people have changed around college.And I think a lot of universities are recognizing that and there are more and more kind of programs where they're including parents and having some discussions and bringing some of these questions up, which I think is really helpful because I do think so much of the time. We just haven't thought about it.You know, parents haven't thought about it, young people haven't thought about it. We're living very busy lives. There's a lot of excitement about going to school. Um, and so some of these questions aren't necessarily coming up at the dinner table. 100%. 100%.And I think the ability to communicate as frequently. If I think about, you just said it yourself, you mentioned a calling card, which for our listeners, that's a card you used to have to buy in order to make long distance calls. All right, and that's something where. Their own parents might have had that experience.So there's no generational knowledge here to sort of pass down now that we have the ability to communicate every second of the day and not even with talking, right? Just with tracking. This is, I think that's a big part of the learning curve.I feel like exactly what you just said, it's like there's three people in the relationship now. There's, there's the college student and the parent or parents and then the technology. And for a lot of us, you know, in, in the parenting role, we, we didn't have that. We just had the, the college student and the parents and maybe a phone call once a week or if we were struggling or sick, maybe it was more phone calls.But. Now, everything's shifted, and I think generationally this happens, you know, I think for people going to, you know, uh, I'll make it up, uh, say young women going to college, where women were going to college, let's say in the 1960s or whatever, and 1970s, and I know in that era, parents might be saying, oh, you know, women don't usually go to college, are you sure you want to do this, or maybe, you know, do you want to go down this line?Would be an absolutely fine line to go, but a person might have a different view and say, no, I would prefer not to go on this career path of being a teacher, a nurse or what it was typically accepted at that time. I'd like to maybe study anthropology and that would be very, you know, difficult, but it was still navigating between two people with different perspectives as opposed to two people with different perspectives and the technology and almost the ability for your parent to be with you at all times.Um, and that's really different for that autonomy, growth, and decision making. And it becomes a habit, and often we're just not thinking about what that habit leads to, and I think a lot of times with the technology, it's really bringing up that question for ourselves and with other people of just because you can, is it a good idea?Or what are the consequences of this? And so, just because we can. See if our young person is back in their dorm at night, or they're still out at 2 a. m. In the short term, or in the moment, that might feel very good and reassuring. In the long term, in terms of a young person being able to make decisions for themselves, to live their life in accordance with how they want to live it, or their own choices, is that in the long term? Something we should be doing.  I think you said that it's reassuring when reassuring behaviors are happening, right? So it becomes a bit of a, a cycle where they feel reassured, but then what happens if something hap occurs and they aren't as reassured?Well, they might not be able to help in the same way. So I think it's almost a false safety, sense of safety too at times that can lead to lack of discussion about, hey, what happens or what are you going to do? If you get in a dangerous situation, and so that those are conversations that are always really helpful, but might be kind of pushed to the side because they're like, Oh, I've, I've got them on my phone, but you know, they're not on call.They're not the security office on campus. I think the idea that. Having the technology is reassuring can be a false security at times too. And then come back to kind of bite parents and teens and the college students in the butt.Well, and I think that the technology, you know, it's wonderful that they, you know, we can reach out to each other as needed, but I do think, you know, that It can be limiting for young people because if the point of contact for help is always a parent, then they are not learning or getting the opportunity to expand that while they're away at college and identify.Other people, their peers, a school counselor, an advisor, a security officer, they're not getting the opportunity to kind of expand their circle and their resources of what they can use to solve their own problems. If, if that dynamic kind of persists of every time there's something that goes wrong, or every time a parent believes that something is wrong, they reach out to them.It, it kind of keeps them in a, in a smaller box and not really expanding their own capabilities. And also Other people and the resources that we can get from outside of ourselves and our family, which is really important and it's not discounting a young person's capabilities or their parents ability to help them, but it's a really wonderful thing to feel like you can rely on yourself or that you have multiple people you can go to and get assistance from.You know, when you guys are talking about this and we've talked a lot about dialectics and a lot of our episodes, I think about the dialectic between autonomy and dependency and, and both. I think there's expectations of what college will look like both from the college student as well as the parent in terms of that dialectic.Um, and I think a lot of times we're thinking that a lot of young adults want autonomy, right? Like free autonomy. Like, I don't want any contact. I will say there's a lot of people in my practice that Are also in the other direction where they're taking pictures of their food ahead of time to kind of, is this a nutritious meal?Not for me, or, um, so there's definitely college students that maybe fall on the other side of dependency. So, and I think it's hard for parents and college students to know when am I balancing this? Like, when am I actually in a place where I'm being independent? Um, and it's developmentally normative as well as have some scaffolding as I move through this.Period of life. So can you, can you speak to that a little bit? Like how would a college, should it know like that they really are in a balanced place and, or maybe sometimes the best way to know this is when they're not. So any like examples that you've kind of seen and how can families help find the balanceI think that's the challenge and I think it's very different for different students because students go, young people go to college at all sort of different developmental stages and different life experiences and there are some people who've had to be very independent from a very young age, um, and maybe they're the first person in their family to go to college and, and they, you know, may or may not, you know, their family member, May not have been to college and might not know the answers to some of the questions and there may be other people, uh, you know, other, uh, young people going who, um, Um, you know, just have other concerns that might make made them rely on their parents a lot through high school.So that needs to be more scaffolded through. So I think it's first, first statement is, I think it's a very individual process, but I would, I wanted to say just two things. One, um, you, you know, you started by talking about the, the, the parent and sort of the, the young person, the teenager, um, Late teenager really wanting to just go and be independent and I have to just I want to just sort of chime in for the parents for a moment here because that's really hard and I think sometimes college students have that idea and then they get there and they realize that Oh, no, no, no, I actually need more support than I thought or and or they might just go into older habits of relying on mom or dad You know or family friend or caregiver whomever and and then and that's pretty confusion confusing because they said oh I want to go and be independent But then suddenly and they want independence, you know on Friday night and when their friends happen to be in their bedroom And when they're you know out on a date or whatever but then you know when they They run out of hangers.It's like, oh, yeah, I should call mom. I wonder if she could like Amazon those to me That's confusing to mom because it's like oh wow if I can like send the hangers, you know And and she called me like twice today, you know, maybe I can call her again But so I just want to just acknowledge that that's that's a real challenge to work out.But to your question Um, I think it's a little bit for the college student about reflecting before they act at before they make the decision to reach out to mom or dad like like Is this something, you know, is this something I can handle on my own or do I really need help? And if I need that help, you know, is the best person mom or dad?And sometimes it really is. Sometimes they are absolutely the one that, you know, they, you get sick and you're, am I allergic to this medication? I gotta ask mom or dad. You know what? They really know what helps me when I get migraines and I forget. That's mom or dad, but maybe the hanger issue. Hey, has anyone gotten hangers, you know, you know, or maybe Some concern with a roommate.Maybe you're gonna buy mom and dad, but maybe you ask the resident advisor first So it's like it's sort of reflecting a little bitYeah, I love that you brought up the parent perspective. And that's, that's the reason we wanted to have you here is to acknowledge that side of it. Which is that as everyone's going through this, there's a lot of, my guess is, if you're listening to this episode, there's probably some emotion involved, either worry about what's coming or you're in it and you're trying to figure it out.And it's not as if, you know, our message is like, parents, just let your child be free, um, and, and stop worrying about it. It is really a learning curve in all the ways. Like there's some. I, I like to think of like pain of growth of through going through this next chapter. And I, I work with a lot of college students, but I also work with a lot of people who are parents sending their college students to college and I get to see the emotion from both sides.So I was curious, one of the things you said was like really good communication tip around just like. reflect prior to actually engaging. Um, I also am going to make a big leap. I'm assuming if you're listening to this episode, it means you care about this relationship and that if you're a college student, you're trying to figure this out.Um, and if you're a parent, you're trying to say something, you know, we want to get ahead of make sure that there's a closeness there. So what do you think is a way to It might be communication, it might be something else to have a strength of a relationship to kind of keep that line going, whether it's perfectly figured out that balance or not. I think Working on both ends like like you both do with young people and also with parents I often start with a lot of validation of how difficult this is to navigate this, and I like to start oftentimes with helping with a communication skill because I find that for both kids and parents, it helps them really think through their own concerns and how they're feeling about it and what they would like to see happen.So very often I'll use the deer from dear man to help a parent or a young person kind of describe the situation. to express how they feel about it, to assert or kind of ask what they would want from a parent. And then we get to that R part that's kind of reinforcing. And sometimes that reinforcement is, you know, because I'll be happy with you and then I'll stop yelling at you every time you call me.Um, but I'd like to start with that part because I often feel like it, it helps a young person or a parent really Think through and assess kind of their own needs and then how they would like to communicate that and then often once we've worked through that I like to make a little bit of a twist there and kind of lean more into the side of okay, let's like shift a little bit to help you prepare for any of these conversations and take some perspective and think about what this Might be like for your mom or your dad or your grandma or let's think about what this might be like for Your college student and how might they be seeing this and how might they be feeling about it?and what do you think they might want and That can often I find that we go back to the deer and we Shift some of the things that might be said as a part of it And and so it helps inform that conversation But I also think you know, sometimes people say like well, it doesn't matter This is what I think or or you know, it can really Soften and kind of create a lot of understanding and like you said, when when you care about each other and you care about the relationship, sometimes that softening and really understanding, and I've heard it both ways.You know, a lot of young people and I, and I heard it in your previous episode with college students really. Can get their parents perspective, which is pretty amazing that they'll be able to say I know my mom Just really loves me and we've spent so much time together. It must be really hard that I'm not home anymore Often people in these relationships family members are really able to see it and then it helps bring down some of the anger frustration That often can go into these conversations and, and really helps open the door to it versus it being kind of a defensive back and forth and most often a texting war between family members.A texting war, I like that. What, what, what you just stated, though, I, you know, if I could just add one thing to that, um, because I, I agree, Suzanne, with, with, um, how you laid that out, uh, because it's something that comes up so frequently, but a, a sort of skill that sometimes I find helpful After you've thought through what your own perspective is and what the other person's perspective is, just to keep in mind it's a, it's a skill from interpersonal psychotherapy, um, and you just made me think of it by the perspective taking and what's that other person thinking.And it's, it's just this very simple idea, give to get. And so I talk about this with teenagers a lot, young adults. I also talk about it with parents, but really it's taking what you just laid out, right? And the giving is just starting. In any communication with acknowledging what that other person's point of view is or what you think that other person's point of view is, I imagine mom, it must be hard that I'm, you know, not home and I'm guessing that you, you probably text me a lot through the day because we texted a lot through the day before and, you know, when I was at home.And, and this, I, I imagine it's sort of out of habit or that, or that, you know, you, whatever, it's, it's just natural for you to do. What you might not realize is that sometimes I get those texts when I'm in class and it, and it stresses me out because I can't answer and then I'm busy and then I feel like I've upset you.So, but by starting with. I imagine that's because you miss me or, or we did that all the time in the past. It kind of softens what you're going to ask for. So doing to get what you want to acknowledge the other person first and validate their feelings can just go a long way in these conversations.I love that it made me think a little bit about, um, a common and where I'd like to go next are like kind of common parenting mistakes that I think parents might make. And I say mistakes, I want to be really clear, like I am a parent and I am very fallible. And so when I say it's a mistake, it means like, it's kind of like, um, a rupture might happen in the relationship, maybe based upon how a parent.Responds or acts. And maybe we can talk about how can college students handle those situations. So this is a common one I see is parents using the financial support card, I would say, kind of like, well, I'm paying for college and, you know, you asked for Uber Eats and I paid for that and whatever financial support that they're giving them.Um, and using that as a way to Either be angry at the child for not communicating enough or sharing enough details. And I was talking to a college student this week about this, that, you know, one strategy I have, and then I would love to hear others, is, um, trying to understand where that's coming from.Like, I really don't even think it's about the money, actually. That it usually is related to either Potentially sadness, like you actually only call me for money, right? And I miss our relationship, what it used to look like, um, or anxiety, potentially that this is a way to kind of over control when a parent might.Feel like they have no control. Um, and I try to explain to young adults about like a relationship savings account. It was so easy in high school, you know, you gave mom a hug, a kiss on the cheek, deposit a positive emotion, right? You ate dinner with them, you went to the store, but now you have to like work a little bit harder.Um, right,little micro momentsright. And that, so that's one thing I feel like college students can kind of. Understand a little bit more, uh, potentially the function of why their parents might pull, let's say in this case, the financial card and work on maybe depositing more, you know, positive interactions from afar. Um, what other kind of parenting or like, kind of complaints that we hear from college students about their parents when they're in college.And then, then maybe we could talk about how they can tackle that.So it's interesting in my mind, just as you asked that question. It kind of goes into two buckets in my mind. One bucket are the, um, longstanding dynamics that are in relationships, you know, so sometimes, um, and this could be, you know, any, it could be, this is a little judgmental word, but like over involvement of mom and that's always been the case and she's always, you know, asking a lot of questions that maybe felt like too much and that's a personality style and maybe something she's tried to work on, but it's hard for that to change and that's Longstanding been there, or issues around food are coming to mind.You know, um, sometimes there are dynamics in families around, you know, eating or eating concerns and those dynamics, you know, come with. So these, these sort of patterns in relationships don't stop because you go to college and then there's a different bucket that feels a little bit different, that's more transitory or adjustment wise to Wow.Our, our really, our role has really changed. Our relationship has changed, uh, my financial. Payment, you know, has changed, uh, whatever it may be in this moment, and how can we navigate that? And those, and those feel like two very different, um, things.  So there's the more long standing issues, but that that might be things that, you know, have been playing out for a while.I think in the more transitory or adjustment related issues, it's, , that. College students might report that their parents do is either kind of two ends of a spectrum, either asking too many questions, wanting to be too involved, wanting to know, or feeling they have the right to know things.You know. Wanting to know the grades as soon as they get them or even wanting to know the grades at all. , and some of these things, you know, need to be discussed and negotiated. And I really again want to sort of shout out to the parents here. This is hard and it's experiential and we're in this podcast and it's easy to lay out all of these concerns.But really it's also okay if you didn't talk about it before and you bump up against it that these things, , that we can sort of navigate it,, and problem solve it in the moment. Both Suzanne and I have have juniors in high school right now, um, which is a big year and and it's not that I can imagine that all of the issues we've discussed in this podcast will necessarily be discussed before our sons go to college.I just don't see that happening. Um, butYou don't just have gobs of time to sit and dear man all the time.And your sons are really interested. They're anYeah. They'reRight, our.man today.They ask for hours of conversation on end with us. Well, and you know how it is. Inevitably, everything you talk about, you know, you go to online and you're like, what are the 10 things I should talk to my college student about before they go to school week? 110 things are going to happen. And none of those were on that list.That's that's the rule of parenting. Like nothing you discuss and get out ahead of will actually present itself. It's going to be totally new and different. So, again, I, I like to think of these as like things to keep in mind. Am I, you know, is my, you know, college student is my. Teenager responding to me in this way because maybe I'm, I'm a little over involved in my, am I reaching out too much and I can ask the question I can advocate as a parent and say, Hey, I noticed you haven't responded to my last few texts.Is it too much? That's another thing. We don't, it's not just beholden to the college student because I agree. I'm sure you're the people listening to this podcast really just want to build great relationships with their young adult children.Yeah, of course. And I, and there's, there's so many changes as people are becoming adults that I think you're right in this 24 hour news cycle where there's a headline that's going to come up. And of course, as parents, if we read that and it's on a college campus, we'll suddenly, we're going to wonder, Oh, is, is that what my, my child is going through?And they might not even have seen the headline. And so they're like, what are you, don't get in your head, mom. But I do, I do. Yeah. Again, love the idea of the, what it's like as a parent to reach out. I'll say this, I've got teenagers, right? And so, or one teen and one tween and I've had to say to them, you know, when I reach out and I give you like a little Instagram reel that you never look at.Um, that's actually my way of being like, I love you. Do you love me? Can you just give me like a little thumbs up? You know, and I've almost had to say, is that okay? Because that's, I would love to know that. Um, if you're not with me and I, I miss you, you know, and so sometimes they'll just, they'll throw me a thumbs up, but they've been willing to do that.Um, but I think I'd have to be ready for them to say another thing they've said, which is like, we don't want to watch those, please stop is also okay.,   to your point, it can hurt your feelings. And I don't think kids realize because the parents, if they're, you know, I don't think we need to share every moment that our hearts kind of get a little tug if our kids do something that's totally appropriate, but I also think it's nice.And I, to bring in the parenting community, you know, your college students are going off with this whole set of people doing the same thing. And I don't know that parents who are empty nesters or, you know, in that world are just sending off their kids at the, you know, in the middle of it, sending off that first child.There's not the built in. Network necessarily, have you found ways where parents have successfully built a network or some sort of way to say, you're not alone. This is hard. I'm, I haven't seen anything in terms of, well, you know, I think a lot of schools and I've heard from a lot of young people now that, you know, as they get into school, then all of a sudden they become part of these group chats and these different things and they're finding roommates and that some of the universities, and I don't know if it's sponsored by the university or if this is parents just kind of initiating it, that oftentimes there are group chats or kind of Facebook groups that are started.Um, and I think there's pros and cons to it. And so I think this is where parents have to assess for themselves whether or not those forms are helpful for them. I think some parents find tremendous support in it and seeing that other people are struggling with the same questions. What I appreciate about some of those Groups is that they allow for anonymous posting.And so parents are able to say, Hey, my daughter's having a really hard time in English. Just, you know, should she go to the learning center without outing the name of their student? Um, which I, I think is really important to consider what we post and put on those things about our, our children and our young adults.Um. I think for other parents, the experience of those forums, and I think for young people as well, is often quite stressful or anxiety producing because they're reading about all of these things are happening and whether or not they think their child's participating in that or could participate in that or, you know, everyone's talking about getting roommates and their young person hasn't found someone yet, it, it can lead to a lot of emotions that then do not feel supportive.So I think sometimes it's checking in with ourselves of Okay, yeah, everyone who's been admitted to this university is on this, you know, parent forum, but is that the right decision for me, or is this something I should look at once a week or once every two weeks and not be reviewing every day? In general, I find, you know, when parents are fortunate enough to know other people that have had, Kids go to college around the same time, you know, or that sometimes those just in your own community Or, you know, even your high school friends who you all had kids at the same age and now they live across the country Sometimes just being able to to text or check or you know Have phone calls with them parents who've already sent kids to college sometimes can be the greatest support for parents going through it Um, and kind of normalize that they might cry every time they walk by their, their child's room or, you know, whatever that might be.And I, you bring up the forms that the colleges themselves offer or, or parent groups offer through them. There are also online communities, you know, through Instagram or, you know, that like the grown and flowns, the things that where parents do the same thing can ask questions. Um, so there are many ways to get information, but you're right.It can lead. Um, you know, just like it happens with with the young people themselves, sometimes parents to make comparisons or why isn't my child experiencing that or they didn't decide to rush and what does that mean? And so it can create anxiety. So again, like you said, it's reflecting on is this helpful for me?You know, and if it is great, and if this isn't helpful for me, or only is helpful for me sometimes, then that's good to know about yourself as well.well, guys, this has been wonderful. I mean, I hope everyone has left with, um, you know, feeling like they have some guidance on how to navigate this change more successfully and hopefully, you know, have less growing pains to see what I ultimately do see with families. I work with. It's such a beautiful phase of life to have a relationship with a young adult.And I know we're talking about a lot of the struggles. Um, But I really think most families kind of come out of, you know, admiring the growth that happens during the college years. And I think a lot of college students. See their parents in a different light as they enter into young adulthood and, and, you know, what a beautiful thing that is.So, um, Suzanne and, um, Annalise, how can they find you, our listeners? If they're interested in any of the work that you're doing, we'll definitely share this in our show notes. But, I mean, you guys are doing stuff, right? Where, where are you?We're doing stuff. We're doing stuff. Well, right now we're in the library together. Um, when we're not in theIn the books.When we're not in the library together, we do have a private practice in Westport, Connecticut, called CBT Westport. We also have, um, You know, some, uh, online information, um, under the hashtag, like, uh, The Parenting Pair.So, on Instagram, it's at The Parenting Pair, if you'd like. We talk largely there about parenting issues related to teens and tweens, but that does include college students. Um, so there's that resource as well.Do they get to hear your soothingI know, you guys have good voices.Oh, that's so nice. I hate listening to my own voice. I think that's some sort of educational hazard, maybe, just because I have to listen to myself talking all the time. Yeah, and my job.You guys have a, a potential side hustle and just creating some really niceLike a meditation. Yeah. Yeah. I see it. Mine's a little too raspy for that. Um, okay. Thank you guys so much.Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.Thank you to our guests for sharing their stories and their advice. This podcast is for college students and we want input by college students. So please reach out by text, email, or voice memo to collegesfindpodcastatgmail. com or 929 500 2231. 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