Latest / The Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast / 014 - Chris Davenport

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014 - Chris Davenport · The Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast

• Paul: Welcome into the interview portion of the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast. We have the most exciting man in concrete batch plants. You've got Chris Davenport. Yeah, yeah, give yourself a They just turned it. They just turned it off. Chris Davenport: Golf clap for himself. I'm the only person here. Golf clap. Nobody will watch this now. Yeah, we're done. It's we're solo bubba. Paul: Conc concrete Southern Machine or sorry, so shoot, I just got your company name wrong. How's that? How about that? How about that? Yes, I did. Southern Concrete Machinery blended it with Concrete Machinery Company. Chris is running them both right now. We'll be unifying them. Very excited for him to do that. But before we get into all the things, I think it's important that the audience gets caught up with who is Chris Davenport? Where did you come from? Chris Davenport: That's you you blended ⁓ baby. Yes, sir. Paul: The number one reason folks in slump monk monkey orbit know you is cause you're one of the original CIM guys. So why don't we start from that? And how on earth did you end up on this ridiculous podcast with me? Chris Davenport: Well, you know, it just shows you life takes a crazy trajectories and we're we're in a downward spiral now sitting here amongst this. This is wow, it's ⁓ shows me they ain't got much going on on a Monday morning, folks. Paul: Just turn to do it. It turned it just turned into a cry for help. Chris Davenport: Exactly. ⁓ I'll post on LinkedIn here soon. We're looking for employment 'cause ⁓ this this shows the trajectory. But ⁓ I appreciate this opportunity to talk again. It's this is the first time on Slump Monkeys we did the ⁓ the other podcast there ⁓ year or so ago and maybe two years ago now. Time flies, ⁓ particularly in this business. But ⁓ I'm a Chris Davenport, originally from Murphy's Boro, Tennessee. ⁓ Paul: ⁓ flies. Chris Davenport: As Paul had said, I was one of the first ⁓ graduates of the Middle Tennessee State program, ⁓ focused on concrete industry management. And Yeah, I'm running two companies now. We're running Southern Concrete Machinery and Concrete Machinery Company. Both companies are absolutely identical in ⁓ in in mission statements, in processes, and in and what we actually do for the the Ready Mixer Greatland, the greater Portland Cement Based Products Industries. We are an at the exclusive Aztec concrete plant dealer. ⁓ between the two companies we focus on Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Ohio. Northern Illinois and Michigan. So basically up the Mississippi River corridor, we are the exclusive Aztec Conico Aztec concrete plant dealer focusing on Conico, RexCon, and BMH, amongst other ancillary products needed in ready-mixed concrete production. Paul: Man, I didn't realize your territory spanned that far. So when you took on concrete machinery company, did that add ⁓ additional territory to what you was doing before? Chris Davenport: That added Indiana, Illinois, Indiana, Northern Illinois, ⁓ Ohio and Michigan. Southern Illinois is handled from a ⁓ a colleague peer of mine, ⁓ Surma Equipment, based out of Kansas City. Paul: I if you gonna get Illinois, you want Chicago. So Northern Illinois Yeah. Chris Davenport: Well you want Chicago, yeah. And ⁓ but you y you really want the whole state, but you know, due to due to contracts and the ways that it is, you just y you meander that creek. ⁓ but Paul: Yeah. Well, I mean that's that's life as a distributor. You know, I I deal with a lot of lot of distributors. We're the my the companies that I help, ⁓ we have a lot of distributors, so we're the principal. So we deal with those guys. I can't imagine being a distributor for something like what you do, which is so the people understand the these are mostly concrete batch plants, but it could also be Chris Davenport: Okay, yep. Paul: Portable plants and silos and pigs and conveyance systems and hoppers. You it's the whole it's a whole thing. You ain't gotta buy the whole plank, buy little whichever parts you need replacing and and you're out there doing that. But th those are big ticket items with big lead times. It what's it like being a distributor for Aztec repping equipment that's so large, so capital intensive for the buyer and the sales cycle can be ge geez, it could be years. Chris Davenport: Sale cycle typically, ⁓ historically is a very long sale cycle. When we're looking at at at stationary or permanent ready mixed facilities, those ⁓ those permanents are hard to get, ⁓ are getting harder to get, we should say. And the capital investment is very significant. ⁓ in in the short term, in in the you know, the last, you know, say two years and what the next two to three years looks like. Right, wrong or indifferent, they've got a lot of ⁓ negative connotations in the marketplace and and in different ⁓ aspects of life, but data centers, AI data centers and such is what's really pushing the market right now with mobile plants ⁓ you know predominantly being in our ⁓ scope right now is what we're traditionally ⁓ I shouldn't say traditionally is what we're most ⁓ most likely to have people call us about right now. Still a lot of stationary plants being ⁓ sold and bought I should say ⁓ but the market's really lent itself towards the mobile mobile plant market. Paul: We love data centers here. On slump monkeys, we are not doomers. We yeah. Chris Davenport: Well i th you know, like I say, they the it's positive for the ready mix business 'cause there's so much production going into the into that. ⁓ but if people don't want ⁓ put down your cell phone. Paul: Yeah. Chris Davenport: I mean if if you're so out there that you're like I ca we can't have this, we don't want it here. Well just put down your cell phone, you know. Absolutely. You know Paul: Stop taking pictures and saving ⁓ How about that? Where who do you think's storing those pictures that you've got three million pictures on your phone? Where do you think that's at? It's in a data center. Chris Davenport: Right. I mean it's yeah. Go back to writing notes if anybody has decent enough penmanship, you know, and and go back to shaking it like a po your Polaroid picture. and just get away from your iPhone or your Google Chrome device or whatever it may be and and go live like it's 1983. Paul: We're we're not doomers here. So interesting. So I I you I I talk to ⁓ people in the data center space and they pref they tell me that they prefer not to have portables on the data center sites. Now they'll have ⁓ on the warehouse sites because the warehouse sites are pouring 150, 200,000 yards concrete and can't just pull that out of the local market. ⁓ but the data center guys like each one had been around like twenty thousand, fifteen, twenty, maybe even thirty thousand yards for a single data center, but you can you can kind of pull that from a plant or a couple of plants for the years as you build out that project. ⁓ but you're saying portables are are becoming more popular in the data centers, they were from the very beginning. Chris Davenport: I say from the very beginning. I mean, because these data centers are not t are not going in a metropolitan area per se. They're going into rural areas or areas that are not from our experience, the ones that we're dealing with, that you know, you don't have that much ready mixed concrete production just setting around. And the and and a lot of these things are wanting a backup plant. So you may have a stationary plant there that the customer or the producer ⁓ is poor is starting the job on, but they're they're bringing in a portable or a mobile plant as a secondary backup plant. Paul: So funny you say that. I remember being in central Pennsylvania and we're they're doing a Walmart distribution center. 220,000 yards of concrete is a massive, massive place. And they had a backup plant. The backup plant was ⁓ Low Pro and it was brand new. And it was sitting over there, not getting used, or using the beat-up old junker that they brought in like a carnival ⁓ ride. Chris Davenport: Yeah, absolutely. Paul: And it looked like it been through hell, man. And they and the nice nice pretty little plant was sitting on the side and they never they was like, ⁓ no, that's that's in case the old one breaks down. Chris Davenport: Well they bought the right one as a backup, that's for sure. The low pro. Well low pro's the way to go, buddy. Paul: That's one of your boys, and that's one of yours. What a great name what a great name for a concrete plant. Like who whoever branded that? Like that was well done. Chris Davenport: Well that was ⁓ I couldn't tell you the gentleman's name. I know one of the gentlemen's name ⁓ it was Neil Smith who was the owner of Conico at the time and he had a business partner. I want to say his name was Bob and I rest rest his soul, he passed away a number of years ago, but I cannot recall his last name, but I think his first name was Bob. ⁓ and the reason why the Low Pro was named the Low Pro, ⁓ is because ultimately the height of the plant utilizing the ⁓ recirculating cement batcher and a live bottom batcher, we were able to I say we, I say collectively, we we were able to lower the ultimate height of that plant. ⁓ and it's it's by far, in my opinion, the ⁓ best dry batch plant that that you can that you can buy. Paul: In in your opinion. So let's let's tell the so people who are listening here, interesting demographics of the audience, by the way. Here's a little peek behind the curtain. The number one viewer of the podcast, like as far as like a demographic of people, is ⁓ owners and executives of small businesses. How about that? And then number two. Chris Davenport: That's kudos to y'all, man. That's that's good. Paul: I I couldn't believe it. I would have thought for sure it was like marketing people. Cause I mean when you get when you get into like marketing a podcast, the people are like, ⁓ that's really interesting, or the marketing people, because they're like, we either like, ⁓ that was that was creative. Let me let me follow. So I thought it'd be that. ⁓ number two though was actually sales and business development folks. ⁓ so that was interesting. So some of the folks that are gonna be listening to this may not understand like concrete batch plants like in depth. You're talking about like, ⁓ we made it low profile and it's a dry batch. Well, what in the world does dry batch mean? Is there a wet batch? Is there a something called a central mix? Could you break down like the again, the most basic sense for somebody that has no idea what we're talking about, but loves the industry? Could you break down concrete plants for Chris Davenport: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's very simple. There's two styles. There's a dry batch and then there's a wet batch. The dry batch is also called at times a transit mix. The wet batch is also called at times a central mix. So the difference is a transit mix or a dry batch plant, the concrete plant simply weighs, measures, and distributes the materials into a ready mix mixer truck, and the truck mixes the concrete in transit to the job site. On a central mix plant or a wet batch plant, there is a mixer attached to that plant. The plant weighs, measures, and distributes that material into a central mix drum. It shrink mixes or mixes the material, shrink mix. I saw your eyes, I'll explain that to you here in a second. But basically puts water to the dry ingredients in the mixer on the plant, places that pre-mixed, ready mixed concrete into a agator, a dump truck, andor a concrete mixer and then in turn logistics takes over and that delivery vehicle delivers the material. So on the central mix side, you can we can load into dumps, we can load into agitors, or we can load into ready mix trucks or tucker belts or whatever it may be based upon the ⁓ subsect of the industry there or business. But the the the key differences is ⁓ to get to your shrink mix, your eye roll there. When it comes to Nobody else saw that. Y'all catch it. Y'all catch it. Paul: No, no, no, whoa, whoa, whoa. That was not an eye roll. That that that was ⁓ that was ⁓ an inquisitive glance ⁓ at at the camera to to make sure to make sure we went deeper on that term for the phone. Chris Davenport: Well, how else do I describe that? Hmm. There you go. ⁓ I called it, baby. I caught it. ⁓ so a shrink mix, what happens when you shrink mix is we run it through the plant and run it through the mixer on the plant. say for twenty to thirty seconds just to basically pre-mix it and then in turn the transit mix truck will take it over and finish the mixing up. So it's a way to speed up the process to get more trucks in and out. Instead of like on say on an airport job or something, if you're running true central mix paving, depending upon the spec, you may have to mix that for 60 to 90 seconds in the mixer and then distribute it. So a shrink is basically just a a quickening up of that mixing process, putting it into a ready mixture truck and allowing the ready mixed truck to ⁓ thoroughly mix a homogeneous mixture. Paul: That actually makes a lot more sense 'cause I've seen, you know, in one of your markets, you you know, you got sh the Chicago area, right? And there's a couple of ⁓ plants up there that are insane. They got, you know, double sided drive throughs going on on that thing. And when they're really humming and ⁓ it's not uncommon that they could be doing two thousand yards concrete in a day out of a regular this is a regular plant. This is not they're not set up specifically to feed a job that's only, you know. one minute away because they're on the site ⁓ like a like a portable job would be for one of these warehouses. These guys are just what they do on a regular day. And I always wondered, I was like, man, how are they mixing for 30 seconds? ⁓ because that's what they would do. And they would dump into the truck there's no way. There's no way that concrete's mixed. Like, but it worked. So I so shrink mixing is the term for that. Interesting. All right. Good. How does how do precast plants fit into all this? Chris Davenport: That's exactly right. Yeah. Pre-cast plants typically run like a twin shaft mixer or a planetary mixer, ribbon mixer, something of that sort. And a precast is typically done on such lot smaller volumes. Like the average ready mix load is probably six to seven yards. I say average, excuse me. ⁓ on big productions, obviously a ready mix producer wants to load ten to twelve yards depending upon ⁓ you know the weight loss. in in their respective area. But on the pre-cast and pre-stress size side of things, they're ⁓ twin sha ⁓ their twin shafts, their planetaries, their pan mixers, they're typically done anywhere from one and a half to three and a half to four and a half yards. And that's a high a high velocity, high spin ⁓ type of mixers, if you will. And they're producing a high slump unless you're doing dry cast concrete pipe, which is relative which is a really slow methodical process, if you will. comparable to that of ready mixed production where we're talking about volumes of of material there. Paul: So you generally you're dealing with ready mix in your business. You're dealing with ready mix or you're you're doing precast too though, right? Chris Davenport: We we we do dabble in in in the precast what what I would call manufacture a concrete product side, the MCP side of things. I I would say that's that that's less than ten percent of our business. Where w we we are we are very, very much focused on ready mixed concrete. Paul: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ interesting. Interesting. So all right, let's say let's say I'm a concrete producer, I wanna be. And I call you up and I say, Chris, I'm thinking about putting a plant. I got permi I've already got permits on the land. I own the land. They've agreed to permit me putting up a concr permanent concrete plant. And ⁓ you know, I I I've got connections. I think I'll probably put be putting out, you know hundred to three hundred yards a day to get started, but I need to plan for the future. I think, you know, eventually I'll be at 600 yards concrete all day, every day as market's just booming, brother. And ⁓ and then you know eventually could it be more than that? So I got the space, not worried about that. I need to get started looking at concrete plants. When you get calls like that, ⁓ like what's the process to even to even buy one of these things? Like they're They're crazy. I mean, they're crazy. If you've if you've not been intimate with one, you might not realize that it's both simple and complex at the same time. And so I I can't imagine like what that greenfield process is like. Could you walk me through what that'd be like if I called you with that? Chris Davenport: That's very well said. I c I can. It's that that's a very ⁓ a very obtuse question, if you will. Excuse me. Paul: Obtuse is a super negative word. Are you sure you use the right word, Justin? Chris Davenport: positive I used it. Because I'm because th and what I mean by it, it's a v that's a wide question. Hey, it's it's wide buddy. I got you joked up too. Paul: Yeah. Well, see, so the audio only people don't realize I'm I'm wearing your hat, I'm drinking out of your mug, and you just called me obtuse. It's a good thing we're friends. Chris Davenport: I did I did not call that was an e that was an obtuse question for an acute young man. How about that? Yeah. ⁓ and what I mean by obtuse is I mean the the scenario that you laid out about a ⁓ a guy wanting to pr start out, thinks he's gonna be one to three hundred yards, ⁓ starting out daily and then move to a six hundred yard a day. That's very easy. ⁓ that's an easy conversation. But if are you trying to my question to you would be is, are you trying to buy the piece of equipment today that you need to meet your production demands? Or are you trying to buy the piece of equipment that you're looking at your business needing in ten years? Or are we going to get to the point to where in ten years now, we're going to have to look at another location? Paul: Mm. No, it's interesting. Chris Davenport: And and how many acre how many acres do you currently have? Are you setting on three and a half or do you have fifty? Because if you if you're wanting that plant to do, say, one hundred to six hundred yards a day, that's a dry batch plant. That's simple. I mean that's two cements, four ag. you know, at a hundred fifty to hundred and seventy yards an hour will give you that ability to be up to the hundreds you know, six hundred yards a day and be have the ability to t shoot out about a eight hundred to a thousand yards a day. But if we're looking at an emerging market where there's gonna be substantial growth in and around your area, and we're not gonna be looking at ⁓ you know, a a a secondary or a a triatiary location, you know, twenty to thirty miles away, and you've got fifty acres, we need to buy build you a plant today that we can take offline for two weeks. add a mixer to it during the slow season and give you the ability to shoot out two hundred and fifty yards an hour in eight to ten years. So that's that's what I mean by obtuse is we have so many plant models within our portfolio, that's the hard thing for me to do is to actually get the time to sit down with you and decide ultimately what your business plan is going to be from day one to year ten. so that's Paul: That now that that hold on, whoa, that's super fascinating. So in in your role, you become less of a product salesman and you are a business consultant. You have you understand their their business, the Ready Mix business at this point, so intuitively that you're like, hey, I I I've already stepped on these rakes, or my customers already stepped on these rakes. Let's go through and let's really model this out. I want you to be really, really sure before you dive into what you're about to dive into. Chris Davenport: It's a big capital investment. And and you know it the the concrete plant's the heartbeat of the organization. The trucks are the veins. Trucks come and go. But you buy that concrete plant at a hundred yards an hour today in hopes that it's gonna be a 250 yard an hour plant eight to ten years from now, it ain't gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. There's things that we can do. We can add weighed water. We can do certain things to the plant to get you more capacities, but we're not going to increase it by a hundred yards. We're not going to get you ten to twelve more trucks an hour out of the plant. You know, the analogy that I use to a lot of ⁓ our upstart customers, and you know, typically down south or even up north with the guys, and you know, a lot of our the ReadyMix producers are like like myself, love to hunt. You know, they they they love to hunt. They have things outside of work that they enjoy to do, and anybody who's a bird shooter or a wingsman can probably shoot a dove with a twenty-eight gauge. Paul: Mm-hmm. Chris Davenport: But ain't that many people going a field with 28 gauge shoot dove. They're gonna take that 12 gauge. For the reason. So it it's more than you need, but it's what you need when you gotta have a bit more difficult shot or you wanna get one out a little further. So it's the same thing when it comes to ready mixed concrete production, is we can sell you a Paul: Mm-hmm. Chris Davenport: Say a $900,000 plant that's capable of producing a hundred to a hundred and twenty yards an hour. We can get that up to a hundred and forty yards an hour, but I can't do that in ten years at two hundred and fifty yards an hour. It's a complete different operation, complete different plan, complete different ship to. So trying to the way that that that I do it and the way that I ⁓ we we try to instruct and train our other sales guys to to look at these and have these conversations with people is cause we are a consultative sales approach. It's not a transaction. It's very much a consultative sales approach. So we try to train everybody that we we have to look five to eight years down the road because why are you getting in this business if you think you're not going to pour more material and grow based upon your capital investment? You have to have that mindset. Paul: Mm. Speaking of people on your team, how did you not convince Joey Bell to come join your company? You know, he he just Chris Davenport: See, the busy the busiest time for us is in spring. And that jack leg's got a diaphragm in his mouth. He ain't gonna take no phone call. You can't, you cannot, I ain't gonna use can't because I am educated. But I'm gonna speak like a turkey hunter. Well, you can't take a call when you're calling in a gobbler, Joey. Because that's it, it ain't gonna happen. Paul: He ⁓ my gosh. So funny. So funny. Chris Davenport: He'll hit ignore on a dude about to give him a three and a half million dollar P.O. because he's got two comms out two toms out there drummining and spitting in between him and his hand decoy. Like that's why. Paul: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, we knew not to schedule any morning calls with Joey on ⁓ you know in April. March and April. Chris Davenport: Yeah, between April and May between say tax day and Memorial Day, Joey's incapacitated. Paul: Yeah, whatever. Incapac incapacitated. He's like, Do I have to travel for this one? ⁓ man. ⁓ shout out Joey. you know, he's gonna be on this episode and like the previous thing, so you didn't hear that part. But yeah, that's great, man. He good luck to him on his new role. He just joined Master Builders. Chris Davenport: Exactly. ⁓ that's great. ⁓ good. Yeah, good for him. I used to work for them back in the day. Great company. Paul: Okay, so that was the next thing I wanted to get to, by the way. So you went through the CIM program. A bunch of us that ⁓ still connect regularly, we went through the CIM program. I don't think anybody went through that and thought, you know what, I'm gonna sell batch plants. I don't know anybody thought that. But yeah, here you are. So I'm curious like how did you go from you know, getting out of the concrete program and how'd you find your way to the to the batch plant business? Chris Davenport: Center Mr. Story, I I've been very ⁓ I've been very lucky in in that regard. I think I paid my cards right, to be honest with you. ⁓ but w as soon as I graduated I took a job with master builders, selling concrete ad mixtures, moved to Des Moines, Iowa. ⁓ spent a year there with a gentleman by the name of Chuck Lucanville who trained trained me how to sell chemicals. We grew that market space and ⁓ had a opportunity to come up. I moved to Champaign, Illinois. Was there for a year, year and a half. Grew that market. And a gentleman that I had converted over from WR Grace to Master Builders while I was in Champaign became a friend of mine, still good friends of mine. And ⁓ once I left Champaign, I moved to Dallas, Fort Worth, and was there for a year or two. And when I was in Dallas, Fort Worth The aforementioned customer that I had converted from Grace to MB in central Illinois was looking for a new concrete plant, was looking to expand his business. The gentleman ⁓ who owned the dealership then was calling on, was calling on the customer and had mentioned that he was looking to expand ⁓ his territory back down south, pick up Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, and Arkansas. And during that process of them talking about plants and a and the growth of his business, my name got brought up that I would be ⁓ probably a good fit ⁓ for Jim to have a meeting with and to look at bringing me back. So Jim flew to Dallas. ⁓ he and I met, had a conversation and It was just it's just one of those t you know times in life when you're like, you know, if if I'm gonna make this change, I need to make this change now. I can I can see that I can be successful in what I'm going what I'm going to do. And the timing was just right. So I ⁓ in two thousand and five is when I started with the Barnes Industrial Group ⁓ out of Baldwin, Missouri selling plants. They had the dealership ⁓ at that point in time. So that that's how it happened. Word of mouth, ⁓ relationship, ⁓ very much like we talked about before we came on air, it's about the relationships that you build today that ⁓ you know will be fruitful for you years, years down the road, and that's exactly how that transpired. Paul: And so you're working you're working for them. Now you now you you own your own company. How do you what made you take that leap and say, you know what, I I've seen how this is done. I think I can do it myself. Maybe there's something my own little twist I could put on it to do it a little bit better. Like w how does that how does that come about? Chris Davenport: Correct. Well, do you believe in yourself or do you want to work for somebody else? That's the point. I mean I I they they they were good people, they treated me fair, but I just knew that I I wanted to do more. I didn't want to be stymied by any ⁓ what I would call archaic business practices. ⁓ just how the way that I carry myself and the way I handle our business was was a little bit different than the way that they did it. ⁓ I think that I ⁓ you know, not right, wrong or indifferent. It's it's kind of how you talk to people and the relationships that you can foster and build. I just truly believed in in the model that I try to do or try to present to the ReadyMix co customer andor producer. Paul: You are nothing if not high energy. I'll give you that. I I love being around you, even if we're just at a trade show and just chopping it up. You just there's like an energy. And I I'm not one of these woo-woo people, but you are a high energy guy. And I I love it. I think people feed off of it. And like so, you know, people on YouTube can see this mug I'm drinking out of. That's decaf. Because I was so excited about this conversation. I didn't need any extra caffeine, bro. Chris Davenport: Well, I had my two cups of coffee this morning and I'm drinking a ⁓ Earl Grey tea right now with honey 'cause if I had an Americano on here I'd probably be doing push ups right now. I don't I don't need to be doing that. I ⁓ ve definitely ⁓ high energy and I appreciate you saying you like it. There's some people that it turns you know, that they just can't handle the energy, but hey, ⁓ you know, too bad. I that's it's who I am. ⁓ That's I believe it's what's made me ⁓ successful is is the attitude and the energy and and the passion. You know, the the passion. I I I love what we do. ⁓ it's fun, it's challenging, it's frustrating. ⁓ but at the end of the day I I I enjoy it. It's fun. It's challenging. Paul: Well, we were we were talking the other day privately about, you know, you you're a competitor. I mean, that it at your core, you love the competition. And the business the business you found yourself in is highly, highly competitive. And that's cool. It's cool, man. It's good to see guys from the program getting out there, getting after it, and not slowing down for anybody, starting your own business. I tell I s I I I don't know how many times I've said it on a podcast, but I've said it a Chris Davenport: Absolutely. Absolutely. Paul: bunch of times in real life. I have no more respect for anyone than the guy who knows the stress that comes with trying to make payroll. Chris Davenport: It's challenging. It is it is challenging. But y you know, it it's scary and challenging when you're trying to grow. ⁓ but hell, if somebody else can do it, why can't I do it? I mean Paul: Yeah. That was that's what I actually I thought that's what you were gonna say. I was like you you were watching you know you're working for this under company and you're watching them, you're like, Man, this ain't rocket science. Like I I can do this. Chris Davenport: I mean we any I mean I'm a firm believer that if somebody else has done it, why not me? I mean even even in college, you know, I'm not I'm not the ⁓ and and it'd be funny, you'll have probably have some of my fellow peers that I was in college with here, but you know, we ⁓ there's an old saying that I use, you know, I I may not be the sharpest crayon in the box, but I know there's a sharpener on the back of that box. Paul: Yeah. Chris Davenport: I I ain't afraid to use it, you know. So ⁓ hey even in school, you know, like I you know, I I I struggled with classes like anybody else did, but I was at every tutoring session. I was at at every situation to where I could better myself and you just you just th I guess that's the competitor and you y failure's not an option. We're gonna be successful. ⁓ and in the competitive s stance or landscape, I know we're not gonna win. every battle or every fight, but we're gonna stand in there. You know, I'm ⁓ big big UFC fan. I just like the competitiveness of it and ⁓ you know, I like Max Holloway. Stand in the middle. We got thirty seconds. Stand in the middle. Let's let's let's see what see who comes out winner or loser. It's fine. Paul: Yeah, that's one that's one tough dude. ⁓ yeah, it's funny too. Like you know, in real in real life, like just walking around, you wouldn't probably wouldn't think nothing of him because he weighs I mean, walking around he probably weighs like one seventy five, but ⁓ you might not really think a whole lot of him, but that dude's an absolute assassin. Chris Davenport: PS tattoo, yeah. You wouldn't think of them until you see them ears. And when a fella's ears like that, dog, you better just go on about your business. You have to be throttled in front of a lot of people. Paul: I there's something about guys though we all think we can fight. Like that you just think you're like, ⁓ yeah, I can do that. And then you get in front of somebody that actually knows how to fight and you you don't even realize the speed, the movement patterns, the power. It's I've I've been around a guy like that and he was an amateur that you know, he wasn't going in he wasn't going anywhere. He wasn't going to the UFC. But You know, we were just having fun and and I realized real fast, like, ⁓ my God, like if this was a real fight, I'm a dead man. Like, I gotta use my my words and my brain to get out of situations. Chris Davenport: Absolutely. Yeah. B be be slick and savvy. Leave. Leave quick. Get on out of there, man. Paul: Leave. That's right. That's right. God, that's so funny. What year did you gradu you graduate were you in the first class, the two thousand? Chris Davenport: was first two thousand, yep. First class two thousand, yeah. Paul: That's freaking cool, man. Like I you know Chris Davenport: It's old, it means we're old as hell. Well I can remember being the young dude in the ⁓ the young buck sitting in there. Now now I'm like, hell I'm half gilded and, you know, walking around with gout and stuff. Like it's things things happen very fast. Paul: Yeah. ⁓ So gout, I just recently learned gout was actually painful. I thought like I didn't know it was actually I didn't know people actually like I didn't know it was actually painful. I thought it was just like something like, ⁓ like arthritis. And like, no, actually can't you put your shoes on? Chris Davenport: ⁓ it's terri ⁓ I can't say that I've really had it, but I've got some ⁓ colleagues and peers who complain about it and they're like, ⁓ the gout's gotten and I'm like, Well hell you ate four pounds of country ham yesterday and drank a twelve pack. Paul: Yeah, on one of the previous episodes we realized like we misnamed the podcast. This could have been Country Fried Concrete. What a great what a great name. It does cause it's it, you know, we're having fun. We're having fun here. We all started out. Another thing about the name, by the way, is we all started out as the low man on the totem pole. We were the guy pulling the slump cone or whatever the equivalent of that was for what the ⁓ part of the industry you were in, you know. ⁓ Chris Davenport: There yeah, you could have. Yeah. But slump monkeys seems fitting. Absolut. Everybody. Paul: We we were that guy. And ⁓ and we were so pro we're all so proud at some point to have that ACI grade one certification. You know, meant like, ⁓ man, we're actually doing this. Like we're actually, you know, these results mean something to somebody, you know, and it we all started there and we're all at some point we were a slump monkey. Chris Davenport: Correct. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yep, that's well that's it's been a minute since I've ran a a unit weight test and gosh. ⁓ Paul: I think I think you'd be fine. That's the best thing about hey, that's the best thing about concrete. None of this, like none of the actual testing is like real rocket science. That you know, the the PhDs try to use fancy words and come up with some fancy stuff, but when you get out in the real world, it ain't it ain't rocket science. Chris Davenport: You know, it's not rocket science, but that's the biggest headache in our industry, is the testing. Testing. That's the biggest it's the biggest headache. I mean that's that's one thing that the industry needs to do. We need we gotta get better on is is is understanding how how to actually handle the material in the testing environment. Paul: What's up? ⁓ man, you ain't you ain't lying. I s So I've I've actually had pretty deep conversations about that with a couple different people. And what I don't understand is why are the large rating mix guys not vertically integrating the testing firms into their own business? Is it too much of a conflict of interest? Because the person who's getting screwed by negative testing is not the owner of the project, it's the producer of the concrete. So if if I'm at the mercy of that person, like I want to make sure They are trained to the utmost degree. I want to make sure that they're handling the specimens it in the ex in the exact most appropriate way, that they're doing everything by the book absolutely perfectly. If that means I need to train them more, pay them more, and all the incentives are geared toward the ready mix person, but we're leaving it in the hands of a third-party tester. I I don't understand why we can't allow And why we aren't the why the Rating Sky isn't just taking that over and saying, I've had enough, if this is gonna dictate whether I make money or not, if I'm profitable this this month, is if I have to tear out, you know, a thousand yards concrete on this deck and halt this project for twenty eight days while we f quote unquote figure it out. No, no, no, no, no. We're I'm gonna take this over. Why why why don't we do that? Chris Davenport: Mm. Well, a that's I mean it's a good it's a good co ⁓ good question and good good angle there. I mean I think most re most ready mix producers are good actors. There's th there's always gonna be a few bad actors out there who who may not do the right thing, but all the big ready mix producers, I mean, they're all testing that. They they know the material that they've got that they're delivering. I mean so th the third party in my mind is just I mean that's is that something that can actually go to litigation and you look at our internal in-house res ⁓ reports versus how it actually handled in the field and take the average. I mean there's that that's a that's a loaded question, but that's something that the industry needs to get better at for sure. Paul: Yeah. I I and I don't know the language of the contracts. Like the is it's do they stipulate that like, ⁓ you absolutely have to have third party because you you could imagine, you know, let's you know, look at it from the other side. They would say, Well, there's a massive conflict of interest if if you own the testing guys. But i if you're the readiness person and you're not sure that the testing guys are Chris Davenport: Absolutely. Paul: Trained properly. You're assuming they are. And look, like guys like Terracon, they're doing a lot to train the guys. But that is an entry level position. You've got a kid, you've got a kid that may or may not have gone to school. Either way, I don't think any of them thought their life was going to be sitting in a pickup truck waiting on a load to come over so they could get out and underneath their little 10 by 10 tent ramrod concrete. Chris Davenport: Absolutely. Paul: inside of a cylinder in a unit weight pot. Nobody I don't think anybody envisions like this is my life. And so so I just so so the fact that that guy might not care at two o'clock in the morning, like, ⁓ man, I've made a thousand cylinders is just another cylinder. Well, brother, that's somebody's livelihood. And it might not it it just may not be that important to him, but it's super important to the Radiomix producer. I just think the incentives are wholly misaligned. Chris Davenport: Sure. No. Yeah. ⁓ absolutely. I I get frustrated when I'm just traveling around the country and you know, y you we all get stuck in traffic, construction traffic, and we're all like son of a gun and it's hard for me to say anything when I'm going over a bridge deck and, you know, maybe stuck there for forty minutes and you know, I'll I'll absorb that and listen talk on the phone to somebody. But when I see the cylinders on that bridge deck sitting over there in the sun and I can feel the bridge bouncing as the truck easels come over. I'm like, that's seven hundred and fifty PS off right there. Got aggregate sitting on the bottom of that one. That dude right there is not gonna be good. Paul: ⁓ Well and so we've we've managed to go all these decades in this country pouring concrete when we didn't have curing boxes, we didn't have all this stuff. Like there's ways to build the country and build all the infrastructure that aren't so heavily reliant on the third party testers that we can't get stuff done. So at what point Is the third party testing firm not not needed? Why are we why do we even need them? Why isn't Chris Davenport: I think yeah. I and like I said earlier, I don't know the legalities of it, but that third party, you know, is probably is a ambiguous opinion there, if you will, that may could be utilized to strength or devour your your your angle there. ⁓ That's a that th th that's that is one section of the industry that has to get better. We have to figure out a way collectively to do that, whether it's you know, it's the the the cement industry, the aggregate industry, the NRMCA, whoever, we have to figure out a way to be better in testing and and it th thoughtfully it should be done ⁓ under some type of sustainability movement. And I hate that word. I think it's ridiculous. ⁓ but ⁓ but i you know just efficiency is what drives our industry to be better. It it can be done through testing. Paul: Mm. Yeah. Well the testing firms have a place. I'm being I'm being negative about ⁓ but I'm mostly thinking like, is there another way to skin this cat? But you know, how many concrete companies have the proper lab space and s support staff and all that, ⁓ that it'd be easy to say, Yeah, we're gonna get rid of the concrete testing firms and you guys are just gonna take it over. ⁓ that includes like pre construction work. You know, you might come up internally with a mix, but you go send it off and like, hey, you guys Chris Davenport: Absolutely. Paul: You just make if you'll make all the the beams and you'll do all this and all the the durability testing, like you'll handle all that stuff for us and then you know, come back. And you know, so there there's a place for me there's different types of labs, you know, whether you know research and certification and then, you know, also like the guys like Terracon. So so I mean there there is a place for all that. I d I just you're right. It's gotta it's gotta get better. And I don't I don't know how you're gonna get everybody on the same page. That's why That's one thing about this this business. ⁓ everybody's got an opinion, man. It's hard to get it's really hard to get everybody on the same page. Chris Davenport: Hard to cry. I mean, it that even goes so far as like, you know, the the national checkoff program. If we if we could get that and I don't I don't know enough about it and I shouldn't probably have brought it up, but if our industry could could, you know, rein in and and get a checkoff program like the masonry industry and stuff does, that ⁓ th that may give ⁓ be able to give us some strength into that. ⁓ but it's we're We' we're we're a cohesive industry, but we have a lot of different viewpoints. Meaning from the cement side, the ag side, the admixture side, like it's not it's hard to it's hard to conglomeratize if y that's not a correct English word, but put ⁓ all together and have work it towards a unified goal. I mean the temporary bituminous asphalt industry does it, but we can't do it. Paul: Yes. Yes. Yeah, I d I mean you you you c What do they do exactly? Chris Davenport: I mean they have a they they have a significant pack. ⁓ they they seem to work well together and just just a lot of differences between our industry versus the asphalt industry. And again, I don't know enough about it. I am I am such a concrete guy that even though Aztec owns Conoco, RexCon, and BMH, I'm very much I tell ⁓ all the time, you know, y'all are gonna do that temporary bitumus payment versus our concrete would be there for forty years. So I gouge ⁓ I'm constantly gouging ⁓ to let ⁓ know that we're concrete guys and we're gonna do everything we can do to ⁓ put down the best product and have it have the best life cycle out of it. Paul: Yeah. You remember ⁓ you remember Joe Fox from CIM? Chris Davenport: ⁓ one of my one of ⁓ one of my favorite professors and I ⁓ I would consider him a dear friend. Paul: I I only considered him a a professor and a gosh, what how would you say it? 'Cause he wasn't a mentor to me, but he was a mentor to everyone. He gave us like life lessons and life advice. And even at the age of like twenty, twenty one, like you knew like I need to hold on to that nugget. You know, folks was so Chris Davenport: He was like a guy who taught you everything by teaching you nothing. Paul: I do sit up there on that stool and would just talk and ⁓ Chris Davenport: You know that he invented the jump shot? Paul: That's a white. Chris Davenport: The jump shot. His name is Jumpin' Joe Fulkes. He's in the Kentucky Basketball Hall of Fame, but he invented the jump shot. Check it out. I promise you I'm not. Go to Kentucky Basketball Hall of Fame. Jumpin' Joe Fulkes. Paul: Feel like you're I feel like you're pulling my leg, but I'm gonna go with you. Jumpin' Joe Fulkes, man. That that's that's hilario that is hilarious. He ⁓ man, there there's so many like like points of wisdom come out of that guy. And ⁓ it's a good thing this podcast is edited 'cause I couldn't remember what I I had like a phenomenal fucking point. And ⁓ Chris Davenport: Claim to fame. Paul: I mean it was phenomenal. It was so good. Yeah, now I have now I have to delete this whole segment. Hang on. We gotta make a note here to delete this. Chris Davenport: I threw off by that jump shot. I I pumped fake you and put that jump shot in your eye. Three ball in your eye. Great. Paul: So stupid. This is why we're concrete people and not podcasters. Chris Davenport: Yeah, we're not brain surgeons, buddy. We're concrete guys. I lost your audio, Paul. I lost your audio. It's gone. Down.