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Make Your Micro-Budget Film Look Expensive: Production Design Secrets · Indie Film Podcast

• 0:00
  A $3000 camera shooting a blank white apartment wall still looks
• 0:03
  like a student film, but a $500 cell phone shooting a
• 0:07
  beautifully dressed set looks like a film.
• 0:09
  You can buy the most expensive cinema camera on the market, but
• 0:12
  it still won't make your poorly designed set look interesting.
• 0:16
  And that expensive camera is probably going to make those
• 0:18
  cheap costumes look even cheaper.
• 0:20
  Sorry, Spirit. Halloween.
• 0:22
  Yeah. Welcome to Indie Film Podcast.
• 0:24
  I'm Vic. And I'm Chuck.
• 0:25
  We're covering the seven deadly sins of low budget indie
• 0:28
  filmmaking. So far we've talked about shoddy
• 0:30
  scripts as well as skipping rehearsals.
• 0:32
  So today we're going to talk about how really cheap or poorly
• 0:36
  designed props, sets, and costumes can absolutely tank
• 0:40
  your film. So, Chuck, I have a fun
• 0:41
  hypothetical for you. I love hypotheticals.
• 0:44
  They're all fun. There's no such thing as an
• 0:45
  unfun hypothetical. What proved me wrong in the
• 0:48
  comments? What say you're making a sci-fi
• 0:52
  movie, perhaps a creature feature or even just a period
• 0:56
  piece set 100 years ago, and you suddenly get an influx of 10,000
• 1:00
  extra dollars into your budget. Where are you going to put it?
• 1:02
  I am going to put it into a really expensive camera and
• 1:08
  justice shoot the hell out of those white walls all over the
• 1:11
  set that I'm filming in because as long as I have all that
• 1:15
  dynamic range, I'll be able to fix the lack of contrast on
• 1:19
  those white walls in post. I definitely believe you.
• 1:21
  Everyone listening absolutely believes you.
• 1:24
  Yeah, more power to you. I think I think the the point is
• 1:27
  you can have the most expensive camera in the world, but if you
• 1:30
  have a very boring set then it's still going to look boring.
• 1:34
  Yeah, there was. You put down a really fun, I
• 1:37
  don't know if it's a quote from someone or if you just came up
• 1:39
  with this yourself, but a $3000 camera shooting a blank white
• 1:43
  apartment wall still looks like a student film.
• 1:45
  But a $500 cell phone shooting a beautifully dressed set looks
• 1:49
  like a film. Yes, for sure.
• 1:50
  Well, I mean, obviously there's still the lighting that you have
• 1:52
  to take into account, and we're going to get into that on
• 1:55
  another episode. But yeah, you want to have
• 1:57
  things look cool. And it's tricky to just dive
• 2:01
  into things like superhero movies or monster movies or
• 2:07
  sci-fi movies, which my brother and I decided to tackle a sci-fi
• 2:10
  movie on our first feature film. I'm sure we'll talk about some
• 2:13
  of the mistakes that we've made. I've done it before, but I can
• 2:16
  rehash some of those mistakes that we made without having a
• 2:19
  lot of money and how that affected the look of our sci-fi
• 2:22
  film. But those those types of movies,
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  if you dive into them without having an idea and prep work and
• 2:30
  money for an art department, you might be looking at something
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  that looks kind of crappy, unfortunately.
• 2:37
  This episode brought to you by Spirit Halloween.
• 2:41
  This Spirit of Halloween is no longer taking your call.
• 2:44
  Yeah. And no shade to Spirit Helmet.
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  Like, realistically, if you're going in and you're getting
• 2:48
  costumes, like, already good for you.
• 2:50
  That puts you pretty far out. Of film makers.
• 2:54
  Who else is going to bring business into that empty store
• 2:56
  that closed down six months ago? You're right.
• 2:58
  They're just fueling rural America's economies, one step at
• 3:02
  a time. Yeah, it's a big deal.
• 3:04
  It's a big deal. So definitely support Spirit
• 3:05
  Halloween, but maybe don't use those.
• 3:07
  I don't know if you should support Spirit Halloween, but
• 3:10
  definitely don't lean into their cheap costumes for your films
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  because it's going to look like AB film unless that's what you
• 3:18
  want. Yeah, there is a stylized
• 3:20
  purpose for everything there is. But if you can get a costumer,
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  I'd I'd we're lucky to know if you really, really talented
• 3:26
  ones. But if you can get a costumer,
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  you could even give them those cheap Halloween costumes and
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  talk to them about ways to improve or or adjust or edit
• 3:34
  those costumes. And a talented costumer is going
• 3:37
  to be able to, which is impressive.
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  For sure. And you know, we've, we're going
• 3:41
  to talk about some of the things that we think are important.
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  It's trickier in a city our size, which a lot of you out
• 3:48
  there are outside that are listening, are outside of, you
• 3:51
  know, London, New York, LA, where they do have, yeah, Austin
• 3:56
  where they do have sets available to rent that look like
• 3:59
  XYZ 1970s doctor's office or whatever the the case may be.
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  So you have to set this stuff up yourself, and it's not easy.
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  It's not. And you got to source a lot of
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  different things. Yeah.
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  And I know that in the past we've talked a little bit about
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  use a house that somebody actually lives in when you can,
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  which is still something I would highly recommend.
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  If possible, don't go to an apartment rental property
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  management company, whatever, and say, hey, do you have an
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  empty apartment that we can just bring in some furniture?
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  That's going to get really expensive really fast.
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  And unless you have entire storage sheds just filled with
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  spare mashing furniture sets, yes, then it's going to be a
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  pain in the butt. Yeah, somebody was telling me a
• 4:44
  story about that recently, and I want to throw them under the
• 4:46
  bus, but they were really excited about having access to a
• 4:50
  location that that didn't have anybody in them or didn't have
• 4:54
  anyone there living in it. And so, but then the issue
• 4:58
  became, oh, wait, this place isn't furnished.
• 5:00
  So it was a bigger headache to try to figure out how to stock
• 5:04
  that empty place full of things than just finding somebody that
• 5:08
  was going to be gone for the weekend.
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  Unfortunately. So I will say that with that of
• 5:15
  using somebody's home comes the caveat of that doesn't mean you
• 5:19
  don't need to do anything to it and it doesn't mean that your
• 5:22
  set is fully dressed, correct. It just means you're not
• 5:26
  starting from nothing. Right.
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  Which is nice, yes. But yeah, you're still going to
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  need to make sure that it fits the color palette of your entire
• 5:35
  film. You're still going to need to
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  make sure that all the family photos of the family that
• 5:38
  actually lives there are maybe hidden and tucked away, along
• 5:41
  with any personal tax documents or other things like that.
• 5:44
  Right. Maybe if they're a very
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  expensive art collector they you take the mayonnaise down off the
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  walls if you know your actual character is more of a nine to
• 5:57
  five blue collar worker. Yeah, exactly.
• 5:59
  We we actually came into a recent situation, I guess not
• 6:02
  recent because we shot this four years ago, but with my brother
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  and I and my sister-in-law when we were shooting Stockton to
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  Table Rock, we ended up using our friend Jesse's house who
• 6:11
  actually did the score. But the issue with his place was
• 6:15
  one it was was actually set decked almost perfectly which.
• 6:18
  Is glorious. But he too is an avid reader,
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  and the character Shelley in the movie was clearly not an avid
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  reader because she was raging alcoholic or borderline
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  alcoholic, which is Lansdale. Alcoholic that they they,
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  everybody can read and everybody should.
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  Read. Support the local libraries, but
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  it would obviously have not been a priority for her.
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  She was very self focused, very fitness focused, very cooking
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  food and alcohol focused. Yes, for sure.
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  Yeah. I'm, I'm not saying that raging
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  Alcoholics can't be bookworms. It's very, very possible.
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  I just find it real hard to remember what chapter I'm on if
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  I got a buzz. That's why you use a bookmark
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  show. Oh, I guess, yeah.
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  I guess I I forget what I just read the night before, so I tend
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  to avoid books or difficult movies after a few beers.
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  But anyway. So we had to move our friend
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  Jesse's multiple bookshelves into another room before we
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  started filming because we didn't want to to accidentally
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  convey that this character was an avid reader.
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  Yeah, it was OK to have a few. But like he, Jesse, our friend,
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  reads a lot, so he had two bookshelves.
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  Entire walls full of bookshelves, Yes.
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  So it was definitely a different vibe, but it's really important
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  to think about that when you go in to shoot with your with your
• 7:36
  character, especially if you're doing, for lack of a better
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  word, a type of mumble core movie where you want it to be
• 7:43
  minimal budget, you want to be want it to be character focused,
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  kind of run and gun. Still, take the time to consider
• 7:50
  what you have around in the set, and maybe consider popping into
• 7:55
  a a pawn shop and picking up a few odds and ends just to make
• 7:57
  it look a little bit more like your characters.
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  Pawn shops, thrift shops, donation closets, asking friends
• 8:05
  and family if they have some spare odds and ends, those are
• 8:08
  all really easy ways to get a few more little accent pieces.
• 8:12
  Yeah, that you can just borrow or get on the cheap and
• 8:16
  hopefully that that works out. Yeah, and somebody that knows
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  what they're doing. I, I want to talk about the
• 8:21
  sci-fi thing just real quick as well, because my brother and I,
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  we shot our first film, I think it was like 10 years ago now.
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  And we decided to do a sci-fi, which I've talked about before,
• 8:31
  but we, we brought in one of our friends who is really into set
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  deck, not set deck, excuse me, but she made props, she made
• 8:40
  costumes for herself. She later got into to Larping
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  and so was very skilled at designing things.
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  And we were trying to figure out what this device was that
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  connected people's minds together.
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  And so we would went around to pawn shops, we went around to
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  dollar stores, try to like, figure out a one thing that
• 8:58
  would work for this. And it all looked really stupid
• 9:01
  because we had this idea of, like a headband and we tried
• 9:03
  headphones and, and putting it on and everything looked really,
• 9:07
  really cheap until we brought our friend on and she took us to
• 9:11
  a medical store and the dollar store and got, like, these
• 9:15
  medical suction cups that just, like, clipped on people's heads.
• 9:19
  It just stayed there. Yeah.
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  And then we then she decorated them with like parts that she
• 9:24
  removed from some LED wristbands and, and design these these
• 9:28
  little contraptions that actually looked decent.
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  Yeah. And looked a lot more believable
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  than anything that we had done previous previously.
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  Which is awesome and I can't believe I didn't remember the
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  dollar store. The dollar store is another
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  great place to get the odds and then say especially for
• 9:43
  electronics or little lights, yes, or just little accents that
• 9:46
  you want tied into something that's brilliant.
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  Do we have to get 40 of the light bands because they didn't
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  have replaceable batteries and they would keep dying all the
• 9:55
  time? Yes, we did.
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  But we learned how to dissect them really quickly and then put
• 10:00
  the light back onto our little head suction cup contraption
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  thing. But it helped.
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  It helped enormously. And then on the, the back end of
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  that, we had this mad scientist character and I, we didn't know
• 10:13
  what to do for his, for his experimental area.
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  So we just used my garage and I had one leftover computer.
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  So I just gutted it and spread it out over the top of a
• 10:23
  foldable table, which I guess was, which it was kind of OK,
• 10:26
  but it's like it, it would have been cooler to have spent a
• 10:30
  little bit more time in the garage and make it a little bit
• 10:33
  more sci-fi E so that you didn't just have like a, you know, a
• 10:36
  rake in the background. But, well, you know, you do what
• 10:39
  you can and come on. It's a lab slash garage.
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  Yeah, He wouldn't want to disrupt the flow of the house
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  with stuff like, you know, as a kid when I did science
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  experiments, I too did them in the garage.
• 10:49
  So you know. Good point.
• 10:51
  If you're going to blow something up, don't blow up your
• 10:53
  home. The garage is fine but your home
• 10:55
  come. On do a purpose, I guess you can
• 10:56
  always just make up an excuse for why you didn't do art
• 10:59
  department 100%. Always make up.
• 11:01
  There's an excuse for everything.
• 11:03
  The character, it's definitely out there.
• 11:05
  We promise. Well, you actually had walked
• 11:08
  through one thought that I really, really loved, and it was
• 11:12
  when you walk into your set. Yeah.
• 11:15
  What is it telling you about the character?
• 11:17
  And is that right? I think that that's important.
• 11:20
  And so, so for that particular scientist, when you walk into
• 11:24
  his garage lab, you're realizing maybe he doesn't have the
• 11:28
  funding for a full underground bat cave kind of situation.
• 11:32
  Yeah. That's okay.
• 11:33
  It would have been good to have that be the plan at the
• 11:37
  beginning, so. To lean in to the low budget
• 11:41
  Max. Yeah, maybe add a line in there.
• 11:44
  Not super expository, but. But something about defaulting
• 11:47
  on a loan or happy to pull out a third mortgage on your home or
• 11:50
  something like that. I'm trying to, I'm trying to get
• 11:53
  us to the singularity so I don't have to worry about my mortgage
• 11:55
  next month. Yeah, a really good, a really
• 11:58
  good plot device, I think. Add a little bit more plot to
• 12:02
  that already plot heavy film. Realistic for everybody right
• 12:06
  now. We need to get to the point
• 12:08
  where technology takes care of us before we all default on all
• 12:11
  of our payments. You know the little.
• 12:13
  Thing another reason you don't want to be spending another
• 12:15
  $10,000 on camera departments. Can you afford that?
• 12:21
  No. So OK then what about the color
• 12:26
  palette for Stockton to Table Rock?
• 12:28
  Color palette for Stockton to Table Rock.
• 12:30
  Yeah, that's a great question. I actually don't remember much
• 12:34
  about that. That was, that was, that was
• 12:36
  definitely Zoe's department. But but one key there, there was
• 12:41
  somebody who knew what that color.
• 12:42
  Palette was, yeah, and, and it was in our friend Jesse's home,
• 12:46
  very, very lived in. But we did make sure that it
• 12:49
  just, it just looked nice. And it had a lot of warm earthy
• 12:51
  colors for sure to it. And because the entire film is
• 12:55
  very much down to earth grounded modern day, none of the sci-fi
• 13:01
  stuff like your mad scientist situation for sure.
• 13:03
  Having some of those more warm earthy tones, the greens, the
• 13:07
  Browns, things like that worked really really well.
• 13:09
  Yes, and played throughout the film.
• 13:11
  Nice. Thank you for answering the
• 13:12
  question for me because. I don't actually know if that's
• 13:15
  100% the color, but 100% felt it that way when watching.
• 13:18
  It so so you noticed that there was.
• 13:20
  Yeah, and it it was intentional. It looked cohesive.
• 13:23
  Yeah, right. Like yes, the hospital
• 13:25
  definitely looked different than the home and looked different
• 13:29
  than the bicycle studio. Yeah, which we got lucky on
• 13:32
  those too, right. Actually, that was another
• 13:35
  another aspect that we did for the set designer for the first
• 13:38
  set deck for stocking of the Table Rock was at the bike
• 13:41
  studio. We wanted to have a race on
• 13:44
  those stationary bikes with the person's name moving up and
• 13:46
  down. Yeah.
• 13:47
  And so Zoe actually did design all of the colors and the brands
• 13:54
  for this fake. Cycle company that's that's
• 13:57
  definitely not soul Cycle, but it's like copyright infringement
• 14:00
  like close to it or not Orange theory, but you're definitely
• 14:04
  competing against other people in the class for heart rate
• 14:07
  points because because that's the trend is to have workout
• 14:10
  classes like that. So it made this feel even more
• 14:13
  real without having to ask a large brand if you can use.
• 14:20
  Yeah, we did. We were concerned about just
• 14:22
  using the bicycles and then also having to stage the people to
• 14:26
  pedal in a way that made the names move.
• 14:28
  Yeah. And so Zoe designed the the the
• 14:33
  status board. And then our friend Seth is a
• 14:36
  computer programmer and he just wrote the the code.
• 14:38
  To make it bounce. Around so we could have the the
• 14:40
  names move exactly how we wanted to have them move.
• 14:43
  So we could get close-ups of the script playing out.
• 14:46
  And then also on the wide shots when we were at the those
• 14:49
  certain parts, we just made sure that the script was playing that
• 14:53
  area of the, you know, whatever, whoever was supposed to be.
• 14:57
  And when you're saying script here, you mean the code the
• 15:00
  computer code script, not the. Computer code script.
• 15:02
  No, no, they both have to match. They do.
• 15:05
  They do. But OK, cool.
• 15:07
  But it added a, a nice level of realism to be able to go into
• 15:12
  the Bicycle Studio. And then I mean, really lucky
• 15:17
  that one of my best friends from high school to become a computer
• 15:20
  programmer that could that he made this.
• 15:23
  He made this HTML code thing and then gave me just an Excel
• 15:28
  document that I could manually modify so that I could have
• 15:31
  whoever's name pop up at whatever second marker and move
• 15:35
  him around myself. He's like, I don't need to do
• 15:37
  that. I just wrote you a program.
• 15:38
  Just fill in the gaps here wherever you want to have this
• 15:40
  move. Just enter the name where it's
• 15:42
  supposed to go and enter the position it's supposed to be and
• 15:43
  it'll Ding up there. Yeah.
• 15:45
  And then he made it animate and things like that.
• 15:46
  So that was kind of. Fun.
• 15:47
  So there you go. Yeah, always keep in in touch
• 15:49
  with your high school friends. It's important.
• 15:51
  Yes, yes. You never know who's going to
• 15:53
  become useful to you later. So even if it's for selfish
• 15:56
  reasons, work something that are great friends to this day.
• 15:58
  No, that's the the Boz Lerman quote is.
• 16:04
  I think it's specifically referring to your siblings, but
• 16:06
  like it applies to the friends that you spent all your time
• 16:09
  with. Is always make the effort to
• 16:13
  keep in touch with the people you knew, because the older you
• 16:16
  get the more you need the people you knew when you were young.
• 16:19
  Yeah, so they can set you straight.
• 16:20
  Exactly. The good old days weren't that
• 16:22
  good They. Were not stop stop fantasizing
• 16:26
  that everything was great. You're reminiscing incorrectly.
• 16:28
  I mean, that is another part of the it's the Everybody was Free
• 16:31
  to Wear Sunscreen song, which is more of a spoken poem.
• 16:34
  Oh, I don't know that. One, it's delightful.
• 16:36
  I love it. I try to live my life by that
• 16:38
  most days. I try to avoid sunscreen at all
• 16:40
  cost. That's a fun bandwagon.
• 16:43
  Should we Should we talk about your cheap trick for the the
• 16:46
  week? I really enjoyed this one a
• 16:48
  whole bunch. I was really excited to have a
• 16:51
  cheap trick. Yes.
• 16:52
  What's your cheap trick? Candles and the obligatory fire
• 16:55
  extinguisher to go with them. I think candles are a fantastic
• 16:59
  thing to have with you either just in your kit bag or in your
• 17:02
  car or wherever because they make great little practical
• 17:07
  additions. And I know some gaffers out
• 17:09
  there are going to be like, don't you dare actually light a
• 17:11
  real candle on a set, Not just for safety reasons, but also
• 17:15
  because you don't get to control the color temperature.
• 17:17
  You don't get to control the flicker patterns like, you don't
• 17:19
  get to control any of that like. Things get wild.
• 17:21
  But in a pinch they are nice to have and it's a really warm
• 17:25
  light and it looks nice in a dark corner or on a desk and it
• 17:29
  can often bring out just some really nice light pops in places
• 17:32
  where you normally wouldn't have with them.
• 17:35
  And also if your entire cast and crew is sharing say 1 bathroom,
• 17:40
  then maybe you just light a candle in there early on during
• 17:43
  the day and just prevent any uncomfortable situations as the
• 17:47
  day progresses. So many shy poopers out there.
• 17:50
  Everybody wants to be on camera, but everybody is also very shy
• 17:54
  about their poops. They wrote a book about that
• 17:57
  where you're not supposed to be embarrassed of it.
• 17:58
  I can't remember what it's called, like something something
• 18:01
  poops. It's everybody.
• 18:03
  Everybody, yeah. Everybody is what you're looking
• 18:05
  for. Yeah, Yeah.
• 18:06
  And then Family Guy has the joke.
• 18:08
  That's the obligatory Catholic version of that, where it's like
• 18:10
  nobody poops and that's concentrated sin coming out the
• 18:13
  back. Of Oh yeah, yeah.
• 18:14
  I feel like, I feel like in the artistic community, that's where
• 18:17
  it leans towards, at least the ones in front of the camera.
• 18:21
  Either way, candles are really nice people.
• 18:23
  Don't care. Candles are really nice.
• 18:25
  They're practical to have for more than one thing though.
• 18:29
  Obligatory thought to go with that is if you're going to have
• 18:32
  candles and actual fire anywhere, always have a fire
• 18:35
  extinguisher. Everybody should just have a
• 18:37
  fire extinguisher. I personally have two in my home
• 18:40
  because I enjoy fire and I also enjoy not having a burnt down
• 18:44
  home. Nice, but.
• 18:45
  I keep one on me at all times so I just hope I don't get it
• 18:48
  confused with my pepper spray if I get into a difficult
• 18:51
  situation. It's.
• 18:54
  Perfect. It's hard to forget though cuz
• 18:56
  the fire extinguisher is a lot bigger.
• 18:58
  Than it's a little bit larger than the pepper spray.
• 19:00
  This is like the grizzly bear pepper spray.
• 19:02
  And then they're about the same size, I think.
• 19:04
  Don't they just call that bear spray?
• 19:05
  Bear spray, Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:06
  That's bear spray. It's good for getting rid of
• 19:09
  bears. It's apparently.
• 19:12
  So do you want to talk about Victoria Did an awesome job of
• 19:15
  breaking down I want to look at this, the almost foolproof indie
• 19:19
  film art department checklist. Yes.
• 19:22
  Because you do have an eye for design.
• 19:25
  Sometimes. If I may say so myself, Well,
• 19:27
  thank you and because you do all the the thumbnails and the
• 19:33
  design on the website. I don't know if we should
• 19:35
  emphasize that to all the listeners who've probably seen
• 19:38
  all of them. Yeah, I'm going to emphasize it.
• 19:41
  I take 0 responsibility. I just process the audio and
• 19:44
  color grade the picture. Smart the.
• 19:46
  Static. Shot though I will throw this
• 19:48
  out there to the people who message us and talk about
• 19:51
  contacting the entire indie film podcast team.
• 19:55
  I'm so flattered that anybody thinks it's more than just us.
• 19:59
  No, it's just the two of. Us doing all of it.
• 20:01
  We got it all covered here. We do.
• 20:03
  We do our best to try to keep up on emails and messages and
• 20:07
  social media messages and things like.
• 20:08
  That we do try. We don't sometimes, yeah,
• 20:10
  there's, there's a lot that come through all at once sometimes
• 20:13
  and we get a little bogged down. But we we get there, we will
• 20:15
  reply to you. We will.
• 20:17
  Eventually, eventually. Oh, and before I forget, like
• 20:20
  subscribe, follow if you're listening to us up to this
• 20:22
  point, please. Oh yeah, if.
• 20:24
  You stuck around so far then, and hey, that means you should
• 20:28
  come back next week and listen to what else we're.
• 20:29
  Going to talk about give us a boost in the algorithm at least
• 20:32
  you could do hit that, subscribe, smash that, like or
• 20:35
  whatever, follow or whatever you're doing.
• 20:37
  Wherever you're listening to us, we're on platforms I didn't even
• 20:40
  know existed. You just throw stuff up on the
• 20:42
  Internet and it just gets picked up by.
• 20:44
  It gets populated in other places.
• 20:46
  Algorithms it. Just happens.
• 20:48
  Thank you. Do you want to go over your list
• 20:49
  here? Because I am excited about this.
• 20:51
  OK, so I'm going to go through it really fast first just to hit
• 20:54
  all the the main key points. OK.
• 20:56
  So everybody knows what's coming and then I'm going to go through
• 20:59
  it a little bit more in detail. I hate surprises.
• 21:00
  This is perfect. Yeah, nobody in film like
• 21:02
  surprises. No, just a verse to them the.
• 21:05
  Almost foolproof indie film art department checklist.
• 21:08
  OK one, somebody owns the look. 2 Decide your look before you
• 21:14
  shoot. Cool. 3 Control your frame. 4
• 21:19
  Everything should work together, ideally in layers.
• 21:23
  OK, five, don't screw yourself in post.
• 21:26
  Oh, that's goes true for everything, not just art
• 21:28
  department, but I like it. Yeah, I felt like that was just
• 21:30
  a very relatable one. And then 6 be honest about your
• 21:33
  budget. I like that.
• 21:35
  OK, so are. We gonna start in random order
• 21:37
  or should we start with one? I wanted to just popcorn it, go
• 21:40
  all the way around in different numbers.
• 21:42
  OK, no, I was gonna start with #1.
• 21:43
  Perfect. I don't like surprises we've
• 21:48
  covered. This.
• 21:48
  I didn't think we may have talked about that already on
• 21:50
  this episode, in fact. OK.
• 21:53
  So someone owning the look, I do like that a lot.
• 21:55
  Yes, and it doesn't matter if it's just like Phil, who's also
• 21:59
  your ad, but somebody needs to be responsible for this look.
• 22:02
  So like on stock in the Table Rock, even though you didn't
• 22:04
  100% know what it was, you know Zoe did because Zoe was your
• 22:08
  production design for sure. Yeah, obviously if you can hire
• 22:11
  a production designer whose job is to do all of this, that's
• 22:15
  amazing and wonderful. And you will probably notice a
• 22:19
  difference, if nothing else, and at least your stress levels.
• 22:21
  But you will notice a difference in your final product to your
• 22:24
  film. If you have somebody who's done
• 22:26
  this before, who's dedicated specifically to this, yeah, it's
• 22:29
  just helpful. But don't worry about sound guy,
• 22:31
  just bring your nephew on to do boom stuff.
• 22:33
  No, I'm just kidding. We're we're going to talk about
• 22:35
  sound in a different. Episode don't worry sound
• 22:38
  definitely one of the sins. All right.
• 22:40
  So, so have somebody on. I like that.
• 22:42
  Yes, and you need to decide your look before you start shooting
• 22:45
  like this is not a last minute. Oh, you know, actually I, I
• 22:50
  think I like the purple blanket better because he's also wearing
• 22:52
  a purple shirt, so I think that works.
• 22:54
  Oh, that sounds dangerous. Yeah, don't do that last.
• 22:57
  Minute just a sea of purple on the couch.
• 22:59
  I'm just assuming they're on a couch in the same I.
• 23:02
  Think I said couch? Oh, OK, cool.
• 23:03
  I don't know. We'll hear it when we listen
• 23:04
  back to it, OK? I go in and out and whether I'm
• 23:07
  listening to you or listening to myself on this podcast, it's.
• 23:11
  OK, I'm sure some of our listeners relate.
• 23:14
  OK, so you're going to pick a color palette.
• 23:17
  It does not have to be fancy. It does not have to be special.
• 23:21
  We're talking 2 to 4 main colors that you're going to focus on
• 23:23
  ideally. If there's a reason behind them,
• 23:25
  that's great. If not, they're just your
• 23:27
  favorite colors. That's fine too.
• 23:29
  We can work with that and then pick one or two accents that
• 23:32
  work nicely with them and kind of balance a little bit of it
• 23:34
  out. Don't leave anything on the too
• 23:36
  warm side or the too cool side. Having a little bit of contrast
• 23:39
  is nice. And yes, there are so many free
• 23:42
  tools online that will do this for you.
• 23:45
  You can Google Color Palette Generator and they will find you
• 23:47
  millions. Adobe has one, Canva has one.
• 23:50
  I don't know. There are some that I think are
• 23:52
  just like Color palette.com or something like that.
• 23:55
  There are plenty of ways to find it and find one that kind of
• 23:57
  fits your needs on what sort of contrast and how heavy of a
• 24:01
  contrast you're looking for. Or if that sounds like too much,
• 24:04
  Google your favorite film plus color palette and then it'll
• 24:08
  just pop up for you. Yeah, Yeah.
• 24:11
  That is kind of neat how it does that.
• 24:12
  It just shows you. Yeah, that was that's been part
• 24:15
  of slide decks on the projects I've worked on.
• 24:17
  Not that I've ever done one myself, but it's it's, you know,
• 24:21
  these are the projects that inspire us.
• 24:22
  This is the color palette of this film.
• 24:24
  This is the color palette of this film.
• 24:26
  And it is something that you can just basically find on the
• 24:28
  Internet, which is awesome. Exactly.
• 24:30
  And you can lean into it like your warmer tones are going to
• 24:32
  be in your highlights and your color grade.
• 24:33
  Your cooler tones are going to be in the shadows on your color
• 24:35
  grade. Make sure your colorist knows
• 24:37
  this. Yeah, but that way it kind of
• 24:41
  gives the whole thing a cohesive feel.
• 24:43
  And it makes it look like you sure put a lot of time and
• 24:46
  effort and energy into this one. Maybe it was just sort of like
• 24:49
  on somebody's mind. Yeah, for sure.
• 24:52
  The next thing is controlling your frame.
• 24:54
  So this is kind of like shooting in that house that somebody
• 24:56
  lives in that we talked about. Yeah.
• 24:58
  So this is where Pendaz lied to you.
• 25:00
  If anybody else has that haunting them from elementary
• 25:04
  school and junior high, but. Parentheses.
• 25:07
  Exponents. Exponents.
• 25:09
  Exponents. Exponents.
• 25:12
  Maybe that's how they say it. Maybe that's how they say it in
• 25:14
  England or something. Sorry, in the UK they say
• 25:18
  exponents. I don't know if they do OK and.
• 25:21
  Color has AU in it all right, so.
• 25:24
  So you are going to subtract first.
• 25:27
  Oh, you're subtracting first. You walk into one of those
• 25:30
  places that's already lived in or already set, or it's already
• 25:33
  an actual restaurant. You're going to remove the
• 25:35
  things that don't apply first. OK.
• 25:38
  And then that way you see what you're really left with so you
• 25:40
  can come back in and build out what else you need.
• 25:42
  If it's somebody's home, things that tell you more about the
• 25:44
  character, if it's a location that they're at, obviously the
• 25:47
  important drops that people are going to be using because that
• 25:49
  does matter. But also what are the other
• 25:51
  things that are are known about this restaurant, this space,
• 25:55
  this place, things like that. Just build it up as you go and
• 25:58
  then set up your frame and make sure that your frame has a
• 26:03
  background, a mid ground and a foreground.
• 26:06
  And if there's something lacking, like say a foreground,
• 26:10
  then get a potted plant or a candle and throw it right up
• 26:13
  there in the front. Yeah, make sure it match.
• 26:15
  I like that. I like the, I like the addition
• 26:17
  by subtraction as well. We, we that's, that's actually a
• 26:22
  psychological phenomenon is that humans tend to add before they
• 26:26
  subtract. And my favorite example of that
• 26:28
  is the Strider bike. Have you seen those Strider
• 26:30
  bikes that toddlers use where they have no pedals?
• 26:34
  They just the walk in. Yeah, they walk on the bike.
• 26:36
  And when I grew up, and I'm sure same for you, everybody had
• 26:39
  training wheels when they were kids.
• 26:41
  Yeah, on their bed. But it didn't really actually
• 26:43
  help you learn how to ride a bicycle.
• 26:45
  Did not. And it took forever for somebody
• 26:47
  to realize like, well, we just take the pedals off.
• 26:49
  And then the kids that learn to push themselves on those Strider
• 26:53
  bikes without any pedals can usually just like hop on a
• 26:55
  bicycle and then pedal it when they're ready to go, which is
• 26:58
  nuts. Because mastering the balance is
• 27:00
  kind of the hardest part. Yeah.
• 27:01
  So let's get that down before we add in this bicycling motion
• 27:05
  with your legs. Yeah.
• 27:06
  So I like what you, I like that point when you have a place
• 27:09
  that's lived in or set that's ready to go, take things away
• 27:12
  before you start just adding stuff on top of.
• 27:14
  It exactly, and then you kind of know what you're left with and
• 27:16
  what you're. Working unless you want you know
• 27:18
  the person to appear like a hoarder, and if that's a part of
• 27:21
  their character, that's a part. If that's a part of the
• 27:23
  character then by all means just bring in more stuff that's
• 27:25
  totally fine. I still think you should remove
• 27:27
  anything that's like personally identifying though.
• 27:30
  Yeah. That just feels like a nice
• 27:31
  thing to do for the people who's who are letting you.
• 27:34
  Use the location my birth certificate or Social Security
• 27:37
  number on the back wall on the podcast here.
• 27:40
  I I just, I had to just move it to the other side of the studio.
• 27:44
  My greatest accomplish in my lifetime is just existing.
• 27:46
  To stick this. Yeah, it's all been downhill
• 27:49
  since then. Most people playing degrees.
• 27:52
  I made my birth certificate. Yeah, I didn't ask to be on this
• 27:55
  ride, but here I am. OK, So when you're looking at
• 27:59
  dressing the frame, I like to think of when we were filming
• 28:03
  that movie for Mark Ewens last summer, remember on Wednesday
• 28:08
  and we were filming in a principal's office that was
• 28:11
  definitely not in a school. Oh, yes, yes.
• 28:13
  And from you did. A great job of set decking that.
• 28:16
  It was. It was relatively simple, but it
• 28:19
  was it. It conveyed principal's office
• 28:22
  and that was all it needed to do.
• 28:23
  Because this was at a, this was at just like a regular office.
• 28:27
  Yeah. For just business people.
• 28:29
  Yeah, like our. Bojack Horseman and the two
• 28:32
  children were business. It was just like it felt like
• 28:34
  business in there. So but it's not principal.
• 28:36
  So you you did a good job on set back and that really quickly.
• 28:39
  Oh. Thank you.
• 28:40
  Well, the key was I bought a bunch of posters.
• 28:44
  Like those really dorky little motivational posters that you
• 28:48
  can just hang up on. Hang in there with a picture of
• 28:51
  a. Cat.
• 28:51
  Yes, Nice. It was things like that.
• 28:53
  But they were all school and education related, and I picked
• 28:57
  out all the ones that I liked the best and that fit our color
• 29:00
  palette. And then I waited and just had
• 29:05
  them sitting there and I knew it the minute we flipped, flipped
• 29:08
  the world, if you will, and started filming the other side
• 29:11
  of the frame. Yeah, suddenly, oh, there are
• 29:14
  some blank walls that look a little bit annoying and a little
• 29:16
  bit pale. So I can just go from a trusty
• 29:19
  little kit here and pull up some extra.
• 29:20
  So always bring extra. Oh yeah, You may not use it and
• 29:24
  that's fine, but you don't want to need it and not have it.
• 29:28
  That's that's cool. And just to clarify for
• 29:30
  everybody there that's listening, when we were in that
• 29:33
  office, it was tiny. It was a very small office.
• 29:36
  And so it was essentially A2 shot, and there was no way to
• 29:39
  really do a wide because it was so small.
• 29:41
  Yeah, the desk bumped up against the wall almost.
• 29:44
  You had to just kind of squeeze through it.
• 29:45
  And we had four people in there. And so when you were 505, Yeah.
• 29:49
  Well, I mean. Plus the crew.
• 29:50
  Oh yeah, 5 actors plus the crew. So it was really cramped
• 29:53
  quarters and I would imagine normally when you're set decking
• 29:57
  you would probably look at the Wyatt and take it from there.
• 29:59
  But in this instance it was too. We had to set that one frame and
• 30:03
  then do the other. So you saved your props to make
• 30:05
  sure that you had enough to keep it.
• 30:06
  Exactly. Yeah, looking neat once we.
• 30:09
  Flipped it and not having to use the same poster on the other
• 30:12
  side, Yeah. Of the wall, that would have
• 30:14
  been a little rough. Yes, you could do it, but it
• 30:18
  might have been a little bit rough.
• 30:19
  Yeah. OK, so everything working
• 30:21
  together. Yeah.
• 30:23
  Is not just reflected in like the color palette, but it's also
• 30:27
  just that cohesive look and feel.
• 30:29
  OK, so ideally all these scenes happen in the same movie.
• 30:36
  Ideally, you're making a movie where all the scenes happen in
• 30:39
  the same movie. These don't all happen in
• 30:42
  different worlds. I don't know about that
• 30:44
  statement you made, it seems a little far fetched for me.
• 30:46
  It's a little bit out there, but keep in mind that despite it all
• 30:52
  working together, you do need some things to stand out.
• 30:56
  So just like in your color palette, you can choose like one
• 30:58
  really bold color just because the the main character of your
• 31:02
  film. And now Mark's name's on my
• 31:03
  mind, so we're going to call him main character Mark.
• 31:05
  Sorry, Mark, you're just an example.
• 31:07
  Just because he's a dull person who lives in like a dull beige
• 31:11
  house does not mean that you should put him and also a dull
• 31:15
  beige shirt. Oh yeah.
• 31:17
  Because we will not see Mark. We will just see his head kind
• 31:20
  of floating there, especially if like the furniture is all kind
• 31:23
  of the same color and you need a little bit of color pop, too.
• 31:27
  Yeah. Maybe he wears a Hawaiian shirt
• 31:29
  because he aspires to be something that he's not.
• 31:31
  Maybe that's. Why I wear Hawaiian shirts?
• 31:34
  Or he just wears. Like Pacific Northwest, just for
• 31:37
  example. It's a good look, Yeah, OK.
• 31:42
  Is that is that correct? Yeah, OK, that's exactly it.
• 31:46
  Spot on, spot on. But maybe also, if you want to
• 31:50
  convey boring, maybe it's just that his shirts don't have any
• 31:52
  patterns. It's just like a very simple
• 31:55
  little shirt, like not even a collared shirt, just a little,
• 31:58
  you know, black shirt, black T-shirt or a graphic tee or
• 32:01
  something. As long as it's different, yeah.
• 32:03
  Yeah, because you don't want everything looking the same.
• 32:05
  No, no that doesn't. That doesn't feel good.
• 32:08
  And then don't screw yourself in post because you you want to fix
• 32:13
  it in post, but you will not always be able to.
• 32:15
  So take continuity photos. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 32:19
  Make sure somebody is responsible for continuity.
• 32:23
  Yeah, especially if you're jumping around different days.
• 32:25
  Yeah, that is real rough. It's very, very important.
• 32:29
  So whoever has the list of your production's design should also
• 32:34
  have it on their list to take continuity photos.
• 32:37
  Even if it's just a little pickup shot or something, just
• 32:39
  take the continuity. It's one photo.
• 32:41
  It takes up almost no space on your cell phone.
• 32:43
  You can delete it when you're done with the movie, but just
• 32:47
  for continuity's sake, you never know what's going to happen.
• 32:50
  You never know what footage is going to get lost.
• 32:51
  You never know. Take the continuity photos.
• 32:54
  Maybe set that on your checklist before you set up for the next
• 32:57
  shot every time before you move on.
• 32:58
  Exactly. Just take a good look at things
• 33:00
  and maybe like if there's a lot of action and crazy things
• 33:03
  happening in the scene, then take a before and after photo so
• 33:07
  you can kind of get an idea of how it started and how it ended.
• 33:10
  Like if furniture gets moved around or broken or flipped on
• 33:13
  its side or something. Oh yeah.
• 33:15
  And then of course, be honest about your budget.
• 33:17
  Yeah, if you've got A5, if you've got $5000 to make a 30
• 33:21
  minute short film, maybe don't make it a period piece.
• 33:25
  Yeah, just don't do it. Why does it need to be a?
• 33:28
  Couldn't it be set in modern day?
• 33:30
  Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I like that.
• 33:34
  I'm not going to RIP on another movie.
• 33:35
  Yes, I am like that Civil War movie that came out, the Civil
• 33:39
  War, American Civil War movie that came out like.
• 33:42
  Oh, yeah, yeah, with the reporters and yeah.
• 33:45
  Yeah, I was like, I don't understand why this needs to be
• 33:47
  set in the American Civil War. It seems like it could have just
• 33:50
  been any war as far as the story is concerned.
• 33:52
  Yeah, but being set in the American Civil War made it a lot
• 33:56
  more poignant to the time because it was near election
• 33:59
  season and everything when it came.
• 34:00
  Out Oh, that's true. So it was like a marketing
• 34:02
  thing. All about those ticket sales,
• 34:03
  it's my guess, I guess I. Don't.
• 34:05
  Yeah, because it wasn't like the Civil War wasn't really a
• 34:07
  character in that movie. It was just like kind of a
• 34:09
  given. It's like this could be given
• 34:10
  any War I. Don't know.
• 34:11
  It was just two conflicting sides.
• 34:13
  It didn't have to be in One Nation, but.
• 34:14
  Yeah, exactly. Or just wait another five years
• 34:17
  and then shoot the film, and then it's gonna be a lot easier
• 34:19
  to get it done in a realistic environment it.
• 34:21
  Was still a fun film though. I liked it.
• 34:24
  OK, so that's it. That's my almost foolproof
• 34:28
  pretty much basically Andy film art department checklist.
• 34:31
  I love it. Well, thanks so much.
• 34:32
  Should we? We're kind of dragging on here.
• 34:34
  Should we move on to the Featured Filmmaker of the Week?
• 34:37
  Absolutely. Let's Do It, Tijuana Lane is our
• 34:42
  featured filmmaker of the Week. She wrote, produce, and starred
• 34:45
  in The Science of Fear, a film centered on domestic and
• 34:48
  intimate partner abuse. The director she hired turned
• 34:51
  out to be a closeted alcoholic, a homophobic, and a misogynist.
• 34:55
  Eventually she had to take the reins of leadership and direct
• 34:58
  the film herself, but when transitioning, it turned out the
• 35:01
  individual stole the hard drives with all the footage on it.
• 35:04
  And she says I quote. Do you want to read the quote?
• 35:07
  Yeah, I was under a distribution deal, so I was up against the
• 35:10
  wall to complete this film or my filmmaker career was over.
• 35:14
  I worked with my entertainment lawyer to get my film back, and
• 35:17
  I did, but the previous director destroyed the sound recordings.
• 35:21
  So I found an absolute genius sound designer who reworked the
• 35:24
  sound and delivered the film to be to the distribution company,
• 35:27
  and it's been picked up by Amazon Prime.
• 35:29
  Nice, so never give up. Never give up, but woof, what a
• 35:33
  rough ride. Yeah, it's good to vet the
• 35:36
  people too. You know, some people hide that
• 35:38
  stuff really well. That's true, yeah.
• 35:40
  It's I guess there's no way to vet everything.
• 35:42
  It's really difficult to. Until you work with someone, you
• 35:44
  don't know them. That's one another misnomer
• 35:46
  about like the whole interview process.
• 35:48
  When you interview people, it doesn't actually foreshadow how
• 35:51
  well they're going to do in their job.
• 35:52
  It just like tells you how good of an interviewer they are.
• 35:55
  Tells you how good of an interviewer they are and a
• 35:57
  little bit what their personality might be like.
• 35:59
  Yeah. Or the personality they're going
• 36:02
  to project when they're on their best behavior.
• 36:04
  Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's wild stuff, but
• 36:06
  thanks so much. If you want to be featured as a
• 36:09
  film Featured Filmmaker of the Week, I want to say featured 3
• 36:12
  more times before I get to the website.
• 36:14
  So you go to indiefilmpodcast.com/submit and
• 36:18
  we'd love it if you recorded a voice memo or maybe a little
• 36:21
  video and make sure you have a link to some of your projects
• 36:24
  when you submit. And we can put those on the
• 36:26
  video screen for the video portion for the people that
• 36:29
  watch the podcast. Because we want to show off your
• 36:32
  work. Because you're indie film makers
• 36:33
  and you work hard and not enough people get to celebrate that.
• 36:35
  So it's fun. Yes, there's, you know, I think
• 36:37
  all of us should be up there on the, the Netflix streaming
• 36:40
  services and on the Amazon Primes and things like that.
• 36:42
  You know, it's, it's because there's just too much monotony
• 36:46
  out there. There is.
• 36:47
  We'll. Keep an eye on that Warner
• 36:49
  Brother deal, find out how that goes and how much diversity
• 36:52
  we're really going to get. It's our production.
• 36:57
  It's just going to be 100 scripts, the same script that
• 37:00
  they're going to change the names and they're all again.
• 37:02
  Everybody's going to allow. As long as we get work right
• 37:04
  now, it'll be all AI. All right, I'm going to get off
• 37:07
  that horse. Shall we succinctly say farewell
• 37:10
  at this juncture? Excellent.
• 37:12
  Bye. Farewell.