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Patriots Catch-22 12/3: 3 Up/Down vs. Giants, Drake Maye, Playoff Picture · Patriots Catch-22

0:05
Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
0:09
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth.
0:11
Speaker 2: Blazarre and Lazarn. Hello, everybody nailed it, joined us always
0:15
Speaker 2: buy our bark Gable.
0:20
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars.
0:22
Speaker 2: The Giants on paper have a pass rush that you
0:26
Speaker 2: should fear. You know, Abdul Carter, Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence
0:31
Speaker 2: rushing in the middle. It's a good group. They have
0:34
Speaker 2: widely underperformed and that's why they're head coaching. Their defensive
0:37
Speaker 2: coordinator no longer have jobs. I would say that's the
0:40
Speaker 2: main reason they have the second highest payroll in the
0:43
Speaker 2: NFL on defense, including a third overall pick Rookie and
0:47
Speaker 2: Abdul Carter all invested in their defense, Bibodeaux, Carter, Burns, Lawrence,
0:54
Speaker 2: and with that group they are twenty third in pressure rate.
1:01
Speaker 2: One of the keys to this game, Alex, was how
1:03
Speaker 2: well the Patriots offensive line played against this Giant's pass rush.
1:07
Speaker 2: Really just across the board, a really good game, and
1:12
Speaker 2: we're going to get to all of that here in
1:14
Speaker 2: a second when we break down this win over the Giants.
1:18
Speaker 2: A really impressive win I thought from the Patriots and
1:21
Speaker 2: I have some thoughts on that. I'm going to try
1:23
Speaker 2: my best to not upset the entire state of Colorado today.
1:28
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to be able to
1:29
Speaker 2: accomplish that, even with my opening take of the day
1:33
Speaker 2: might upset some of those people. So if you're watching Hello, Welcome,
1:37
Speaker 2: you can hear some more of that here today. But
1:40
Speaker 2: it's Evan Lazarre, it's Alex Barth, it's Alex behind the glass.
1:44
Speaker 2: We are going to be rolling with you guys here
1:46
Speaker 2: for the next couple hours. No game to preview Barth
1:50
Speaker 2: for next week, so we'll definitely have some more listener involvement,
1:54
Speaker 2: I think in today's show here in the second hour.
1:56
Speaker 2: But we'll start with Patriots, will start with paid giants
2:00
Speaker 2: breaking down this game, and I'll just start with this.
2:05
Speaker 2: You know, I have been very tried to be very
2:10
Speaker 2: reluctant about crowding the Patriots too early and really crowding them, frankly,
2:16
Speaker 2: before they have truly accomplished anything like being the number
2:19
Speaker 2: one seed in week thirteen doesn't throw you any parades,
2:22
Speaker 2: right like that. That's not the end goal here for
2:25
Speaker 2: any team in the NFL. With that being said, though,
2:29
Speaker 2: the Patriots played a couple of weeks ago on Thursday
2:32
Speaker 2: Night Football. They played this week on Monday Night Football.
2:35
Speaker 2: So I've had an opportunity to watch a lot of
2:38
Speaker 2: the league the last two or three weeks and a
2:41
Speaker 2: lot of the AFC, and coming off this game against
2:44
Speaker 2: the Giants, I feel pretty confident, pretty comfortable saying that
2:50
Speaker 2: I think the Patriots are the best team in the conference.
2:52
Speaker 2: I think the Patriots the best team in the AFC.
2:54
Speaker 2: I think that they should be the favorite, the front
2:57
Speaker 2: runner to represent the AFC in the Super And I
3:02
Speaker 2: think the main reason why I feel so strongly about
3:05
Speaker 2: that is that, of course the MVP at quarterback. But
3:10
Speaker 2: the second thing is in what I just came away
3:13
Speaker 2: so impressed by this game, in particular, was the energy
3:18
Speaker 2: that they played with on Monday Night. I did not
3:20
Speaker 2: think they had enough gas in the tank to play
3:23
Speaker 2: the way they did in the first half and to
3:25
Speaker 2: fly around the field like that and to hit like that, Like,
3:28
Speaker 2: when's the last time you saw a modern team, you know,
3:33
Speaker 2: a team in the twenty twenties come out and lay
3:36
Speaker 2: the wood on a team like the Patriots did on
3:39
Speaker 2: Monday Night against the Giants. Then they don't you don't
3:42
Speaker 2: play like that anymore. A lot of that's because it's
3:44
Speaker 2: been legislated out of the league. But the Patriots did
3:47
Speaker 2: it right on the line. They were clean for most
3:50
Speaker 2: of it, with a lot of those hits, and they
3:55
Speaker 2: came out with a energy, with a physical with an
4:00
Speaker 2: aggressiveness that you just don't necessarily see a whole lot
4:05
Speaker 2: in the NFL anymore. So when you put that sort
4:08
Speaker 2: of aspect to it, which of course a lot of
4:11
Speaker 2: that is related to the head coach and Mike Vrabel
4:13
Speaker 2: and his attitude and his energy, and then you add
4:16
Speaker 2: in a quarterback playing at an MVP level. That is
4:20
Speaker 2: a really, really good formula to have. And the last
4:24
Speaker 2: thing I'll just say to open it up this team,
4:30
Speaker 2: this team's got it like they've got some magic going.
4:34
Speaker 2: And the last thing that I kind of wanted to
4:36
Speaker 2: see from the Patriots because I'm not a big schedule guy,
4:41
Speaker 2: because I don't think you win ten straight games in
4:43
Speaker 2: the NFL by accident. Well, I don't care who you're playing, No, No,
4:47
Speaker 2: it's the one last thing. The thing that really I
4:52
Speaker 2: wanted to see is what happened when the injury started
4:54
Speaker 2: to pile up, and was this team. And granted it's
4:57
Speaker 2: only been one game, but was his team going to
4:59
Speaker 2: be able to overcome injuries to frontline players at key
5:04
Speaker 2: positions like left tackle, like your best defensive player, arguably
5:08
Speaker 2: in Milton Williams, And to put that performance on tape
5:12
Speaker 2: against the Giants without Milton Williams, without Will Campbell, without
5:17
Speaker 2: Jared Wilson, without Kiris Tanga like that is that was
5:21
Speaker 2: really where I was questioning them, is whether they going
5:24
Speaker 2: to have enough layers of deck behind that, And they
5:27
Speaker 2: went out there and proved it to me. So this
5:29
Speaker 2: is this is it, Like I think the Patriots, you
5:33
Speaker 2: should all out there, all Patriots fans, all out there,
5:36
Speaker 2: should feel like you have a real chance here to
5:40
Speaker 2: make a run out of Super Bowl. This is not
5:42
Speaker 2: fluky anymore. This is the real thing.
5:44
Speaker 1: I'll just say this on the schedule thing, and that's
5:47
Speaker 1: a that's a hell of a statement. I don't necessarily disagree.
5:49
Speaker 1: That's a hell of a statement. I think when it
5:53
Speaker 1: there's two things with the easy schedule to me, because
5:56
Speaker 1: it is it has been objectively easy, like they have
5:59
Speaker 1: not played they played mostly bad teams, but when they've
6:03
Speaker 1: played bad teams, and this is where this game comes
6:05
Speaker 1: into it. You know, you look at what the Broncos did.
6:10
Speaker 1: I don't know how much your analysis about the Patriots
6:12
Speaker 1: trus the rest of the league goes into that Sunday
6:14
Speaker 1: night game. But you look at the Broncos and yeah,
6:17
Speaker 1: they're winning a lot, but they're kind of going toe
6:20
Speaker 1: to toe with a lot of these bad day commanders.
6:23
Speaker 1: Team's not in a good way right now. I know
6:24
Speaker 1: they were good last year, they got a lot of injuries.
6:26
Speaker 1: They're not a good way right now. And that thing
6:28
Speaker 1: went down to the final play of overtime for them
6:30
Speaker 1: to win that. The Patriots have had a week schedule,
6:32
Speaker 1: but they're blowing doors against whatever you want to call
6:35
Speaker 1: the Panthers. I don't know if the Panthers are good
6:37
Speaker 1: or bad. It depends on the week you get them, right.
6:39
Speaker 1: But Saints Titans, Browns, and it had gotten a little
6:42
Speaker 1: closer recently. The Falcons game obviously fell close than it
6:45
Speaker 1: needed to be. That Bengals game fell closer than it
6:47
Speaker 1: needed to be. I said this on Sunday Kickoff, and
6:50
Speaker 1: I kind of said it as a joke, and it
6:52
Speaker 1: got a reaction that it maybe wasn't so tongue in cheek.
6:55
Speaker 1: But I was like, aren't they kind of due for
6:57
Speaker 1: a blowout? Like if they really are at that level,
7:01
Speaker 1: and what do we get? I would I know it
7:04
Speaker 1: ended up as like a close three score game, but
7:06
Speaker 1: I'd qualify that game as a blowout. So I think
7:09
Speaker 1: there's that element of it with the schedule that you
7:12
Speaker 1: can only play who's on your schedule. And we know
7:15
Speaker 1: from the last two years what it looks like when
7:18
Speaker 1: a bad team plays a good team, and they flipped
7:20
Speaker 1: the script on that, and it's they're not eking out
7:23
Speaker 1: these wins. They're winning these games convincingly, which is what
7:26
Speaker 1: you want to see.
7:27
Speaker 2: It's not college football.
7:28
Speaker 1: Style points don't matter, there is no committee, you're not
7:30
Speaker 1: trying to impress. But and we can get to the
7:33
Speaker 1: style points of this game in a little bit, because
7:35
Speaker 1: I do have a take on that. The other thing
7:37
Speaker 1: about the easy schedule, when we went back and did
7:40
Speaker 1: the schedule predictions at the beginning of the year and
7:42
Speaker 1: people had ten, eleven, twelve wins, whatever, shout out of Taylor,
7:45
Speaker 1: Kyle's thirteen wins. A Taylor is a big old victory
7:48
Speaker 1: lap coming. It's gonna make some of my victory laps
7:50
Speaker 1: look like nothing.
7:51
Speaker 2: I hope he got a little cold feet about it, though.
7:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to stick by your take. Yeah, that's
7:56
Speaker 1: if the Felder has taught me that time and time again.
7:58
Speaker 1: You gotta stick by a tape.
8:00
Speaker 2: He put it out there and they got a lot
8:01
Speaker 2: of we don't need to make this about Taylor.
8:05
Speaker 1: But the point being, no, I want to give him flowers.
8:07
Speaker 1: But the point being, like, so I had them at
8:10
Speaker 1: nine wins, and I think I remember saying, like there
8:12
Speaker 1: were eleven games on their schedule they should win. But
8:17
Speaker 1: consistency in the NFL, You guys, if you've listened to
8:19
Speaker 1: the show for a long time, you know I Consistency
8:23
Speaker 1: is my thing. That's always what it comes down into me.
8:24
Speaker 1: That's what separates the good teams from the great teams.
8:26
Speaker 1: You consistent and all right, well, you know it's a
8:29
Speaker 1: young team, there's a lot of new pieces. Okay, there's
8:33
Speaker 1: eleven games they should win, but like, realistically, over the
8:35
Speaker 1: course of the season, you would think, okay, they're gonna
8:37
Speaker 1: sleep walk into one of these They're just gonna have
8:40
Speaker 1: one game where they're sloppy and they're out of it.
8:41
Speaker 1: And look, they still have four games left, So who's
8:44
Speaker 1: to say that that's not to come. You could argue
8:46
Speaker 1: they had one at the beginning of the year against
8:48
Speaker 1: the Steelers, which was a game that some people had
8:50
Speaker 1: as they should win. At the beginning of the year.
8:52
Speaker 1: The Raiders went as well, But I just chalked that
8:53
Speaker 1: up to Week one being weird. We've learned anything the
8:56
Speaker 1: last two years. Don't buy into anything that happens week one.
9:00
Speaker 2: A lot about that Raiders loss that happened in the
9:03
Speaker 2: very first week of the season with the brand new coaching.
9:05
Speaker 1: Staff and hearing a lot about that Raiders and from Broncos.
9:08
Speaker 2: Oh and like like thirty five new players on the
9:11
Speaker 2: roster and a brand new coaching stugg just in week
9:15
Speaker 2: one of the season. And then oh, by the way,
9:17
Speaker 2: the Broncos on Thursday Night football barely beat the Raiders
9:21
Speaker 2: in one of the ugliest games of the season. Yeah, anyways,
9:24
Speaker 2: keep going.
9:24
Speaker 1: But my point being, like, well, first of all, whatever
9:27
Speaker 1: I think is going to have I'm just going against
9:29
Speaker 1: my gut instinct week one next year across the board.
9:32
Speaker 1: But yeah, part of it, what makes it so impressive
9:36
Speaker 1: is is, Okay, they're beating bad teams, but a lot
9:40
Speaker 1: of teams play stretches of bad teams, and it's it's
9:43
Speaker 1: the NFL. You're kind of supposed to slip up here
9:46
Speaker 1: and there, and good teams have bad games. It happens
9:50
Speaker 1: to win ten in a row. This is now I
9:54
Speaker 1: think the second longest winning streak in franchise history, or
9:57
Speaker 1: tied for third.
9:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, depending on how you do winning st like if
10:00
Speaker 2: you see in sason, like over two seasons, it's kind
10:03
Speaker 2: of difficult. I think that might.
10:06
Speaker 1: But it's like, you're not regardless of who they're playing.
10:09
Speaker 1: This is my final point. Then I'll go back to you.
10:11
Speaker 2: No, it's fine regardless of who they're playing.
10:15
Speaker 1: This kind of sustained success doesn't happen in the NFL.
10:19
Speaker 1: That's it's kind of structured against that. So they deserve
10:23
Speaker 1: credit for that regardless of the opponent.
10:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest thing in terms of all
10:31
Speaker 2: that and the schedule, because you asked me like maybe
10:33
Speaker 2: this is based off the rest of what's going on.
10:36
Speaker 1: They tied for the third longest winning streak and franchise history.
10:40
Speaker 1: It is the longest without a guy named Tom Brady
10:42
Speaker 1: playing one. Yeah, that makes sense obviously sixteen game one
10:46
Speaker 1: and then they won twelve in a row.
10:47
Speaker 2: Oh three, Yeah, so I think it's twofold one. I
10:52
Speaker 2: had a tiny bit, and I know it sounds crazy
10:55
Speaker 2: at two and eleven, but I had a tiny bit
10:57
Speaker 2: of respect for the Giants because they just blown so
11:01
Speaker 2: many big leads in games that they should have won.
11:04
Speaker 2: And the last three weeks leading into this game, the
11:09
Speaker 2: Giants were in three one score games. Like this is
11:13
Speaker 2: a Giants team that was in overtime against Detroit the
11:16
Speaker 2: week before.
11:17
Speaker 1: Again, it's it's even these bad teams sometimes play close games. Yeah,
11:22
Speaker 1: it was Detroit was one score game.
11:26
Speaker 2: Three good teams that they were in one score games against,
11:29
Speaker 2: and they should have won in some of the instances.
11:33
Speaker 2: You know that the kind of choked in a lot
11:35
Speaker 2: of those games. So I looked at the Giants, I
11:39
Speaker 2: looked at the Patriots, and this kind of goes back
11:41
Speaker 2: to the whole mindset thing. The Patriots were literally and
11:45
Speaker 2: figuratively limping into this bye week. They had Will Campbell
11:51
Speaker 2: on injured reserve, Milton Williams on injured reserve, a bunch
11:54
Speaker 2: of dudes inactive that were ruled out with injuries. I
11:57
Speaker 2: think what three or four, right, if you count Schooler
12:00
Speaker 2: Wilson School or Tonga, Harold Landry has a knee.
12:03
Speaker 1: You count school what Why wouldn't you count schooler?
12:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to that. Tonga Landry has a knee
12:11
Speaker 2: issue that has clearly been related to that injury scare
12:16
Speaker 2: in Week six in New Orleans, and he hasn't been
12:18
Speaker 2: the same since. You know, it's clearly banged up. Guys
12:22
Speaker 2: are are banged up. They've been going at this every
12:26
Speaker 2: single week really since July, if you're being honest about it.
12:30
Speaker 2: I think the last know, other than the mini bye
12:32
Speaker 2: week after the Thursday night game, which is after a
12:34
Speaker 2: Thursday night game on a short week like Labor Day weekend,
12:38
Speaker 2: is probably the last time that they really had a
12:40
Speaker 2: break from football. And they looked like a team that
12:46
Speaker 2: was limping into their bye week. And usually you don't
12:50
Speaker 2: see a team like that capable of blowing doors like
12:53
Speaker 2: that's not usually a formula when you have a bunch
12:55
Speaker 2: of guys hurt and you're tired and you're worn down
12:58
Speaker 2: after thirteen straight game like you don't normally then go
13:01
Speaker 2: out and have a thirty to seven lead at halftime
13:04
Speaker 2: like that, Right, that's not normally a formula for success.
13:09
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of people on both sides
13:12
Speaker 2: Giants and Patriots. Media were picking either a one score
13:17
Speaker 2: game or even some people were taking the Giants in
13:20
Speaker 2: this game on Monday night. So I don't think that
13:22
Speaker 2: this was you know, as much as we can look
13:24
Speaker 2: at the Giants record and say that they stink, I
13:27
Speaker 2: don't think this was a layup that the Patriots were
13:30
Speaker 2: going to blow doors on Monday night. I think a
13:31
Speaker 2: lot of people thought that this was going to be
13:33
Speaker 2: a tighter game than it may be, like closer to
13:36
Speaker 2: what happened in Cincinnati, right where it's kind of a
13:39
Speaker 2: one score game, but the Patriots kind of had control
13:41
Speaker 2: at the end of the game, that sort of thing.
13:44
Speaker 2: And the other thing is, and I don't, you know,
13:48
Speaker 2: want to completely rail on all the other teams like
13:50
Speaker 2: I did yesterday. But the other thing is is that
13:52
Speaker 2: I just look around the AFC and I see a
13:55
Speaker 2: lot of teams that also have some flaws like the Patriot.
14:00
Speaker 2: It's that could be fatal or could not be fatal.
14:02
Speaker 2: You know. I look at the Denver Broncos and I
14:05
Speaker 2: see a team that offensively is average, you know, an
14:08
Speaker 2: act they have a great defense, but they're an average offense.
14:12
Speaker 2: You know, their thirteenth in scoring bo Nicks's twentieth in QBR. Like,
14:16
Speaker 2: they're not a great offense right now. They don't have
14:18
Speaker 2: a great running game. They don't have great passing game either.
14:23
Speaker 2: I look at the Indianapolis Colts now suddenly kind of
14:26
Speaker 2: in a dogfight for their division with the Jacksonville Jaguars
14:30
Speaker 2: and with the Houston Texans. The Colts have a quarterback
14:34
Speaker 2: who has a broken fibula and is going to play
14:36
Speaker 2: through it. So as much as their run first operation,
14:40
Speaker 2: you know, their quarterback is compromised at this point. And
14:44
Speaker 2: he's already a guy in Daniel Jones that was doing
14:47
Speaker 2: the whole Sam Darnold reclamation project thing to begin with,
14:50
Speaker 2: So he was probably going to turn back into Daniel
14:53
Speaker 2: Jones at some point anyways, just like Donald did last year,
14:56
Speaker 2: and now he's hurt. I look at an AFC field
15:00
Speaker 2: right now. Buffalo is the seventh seed in the AFC.
15:04
Speaker 2: Kansas City and Cincinnati aren't in the playoffs if they
15:08
Speaker 2: started today. Baltimore's in but limping, and I don't think
15:12
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson looks exactly the way that he has prior
15:16
Speaker 2: to all these injuries that he's accumulated this year. So
15:20
Speaker 2: you look at all these different things and all these
15:23
Speaker 2: different factors, and I'm like, all these teams are a
15:26
Speaker 2: little bit flawed. There probably isn't an elite team in
15:29
Speaker 2: the conference this year. So which team's flaws can you
15:33
Speaker 2: live with? And looking at the Patriots, you know their
15:36
Speaker 2: flaws right now are their run defense is faltered a
15:41
Speaker 2: little bit here, their pass rush is okay, mediocre probably
15:46
Speaker 2: is the best way to put that. And they're inconsistent
15:50
Speaker 2: in the red zone offensively. Those are their flaws. But
15:54
Speaker 2: those flaws, in some ways, and we'll get to it,
15:57
Speaker 2: are fixable. I don't. You can't fix Daniel Jones's fibula.
16:02
Speaker 1: You're right, and not before the playoffs start, and you can't,
16:05
Speaker 1: you know, Daniel, you know the Broncos offense and bo
16:09
Speaker 1: Nicks is going to be, you know, kind of a
16:12
Speaker 1: sidecard to their defense.
16:14
Speaker 2: If their defense carries them, their defense carries them. But
16:17
Speaker 2: that's gonna be how that team wins in the playoffs.
16:19
Speaker 1: There's been all these questions about like this Patriots versus
16:23
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one Patriots, and okay, that team started hot,
16:26
Speaker 1: young quarterback came out of the bye, fell apart, turned
16:29
Speaker 1: out to be fools. Gold, Aren't the Broncos more of
16:32
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one Patriots than this Patriots team is.
16:37
Speaker 2: A little bit, I don't know exactly, you know what
16:41
Speaker 2: comparison the Broncos are. I just look at the Broncos
16:45
Speaker 2: as a team to me that has a great defense
16:47
Speaker 2: and has a average at best offense. And I guess
16:52
Speaker 2: where I'm getting at with the Broncos is like, I
16:55
Speaker 2: don't know if you can fully win with that formula
16:58
Speaker 2: anymore in the NFL. I think you do need to
17:01
Speaker 2: have I don't know if you need to have like
17:03
Speaker 2: a Hall of Fame quarterback, but I think you need
17:06
Speaker 2: to have a good quarterback in this league to win.
17:09
Speaker 1: You have a good quarterback. I don't think you have
17:10
Speaker 1: a great quarterback especial if you have a run game, you.
17:12
Speaker 2: Can win, right But they don't have a running game.
17:14
Speaker 1: But they don't. That's okay, That's I'm just saying big picture,
17:16
Speaker 1: Like if.
17:16
Speaker 2: You're the Eagles and you you built it that way,
17:20
Speaker 2: in theory, you could do that. But I think the
17:22
Speaker 2: Eagles are kind of an exception, not the rule, because
17:24
Speaker 2: the Eagles were so loaded around Jalen Hurts like that,
17:28
Speaker 2: that's two superstar receivers, a superstar running back, a great
17:32
Speaker 2: offensive line, like that's not the Denver Broncos, right, And
17:36
Speaker 2: so I I just think that all these things kind
17:38
Speaker 2: of point to the Patriots. Yes, maybe being in a
17:41
Speaker 2: crop of AFC teams that are not juggernauts that are
17:45
Speaker 2: this isn't like the prime Chiefs or the prime Patriots
17:48
Speaker 2: or you know, one of those years where you're right,
17:51
Speaker 2: I think that out of all the teams, the Patriots
17:55
Speaker 2: look the best. And and my take has always been
17:57
Speaker 2: the same about in terms of, like you know, we
17:59
Speaker 2: want to get into like who do you fear in
18:01
Speaker 2: the AFC or who do you not want to play
18:03
Speaker 2: in the AFC? My take has always been the same
18:06
Speaker 2: is that my biggest concern would be one of these
18:12
Speaker 2: MVP caliber quarterbacks Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes. Like
18:17
Speaker 2: one of these guys figures it out at the right time,
18:20
Speaker 2: right and they flip a switch in January, just like
18:23
Speaker 2: some of the Patriots teams at the end with Brady
18:26
Speaker 2: did you know twenty eighteen? Is always the one I
18:28
Speaker 2: point to is that that would be my biggest fear.
18:31
Speaker 2: Wouldn't be playing Daniel Jones or bon Nicks or Trevor Lawrence,
18:35
Speaker 2: you know, or whatever. My biggest fear would be Josh
18:39
Speaker 2: Allen gets hot, Josh Allen has an MVP performance and
18:44
Speaker 2: there's nothing you can do, and it's divisional round weekend
18:48
Speaker 2: and you just you get bounced by a quarterback that
18:50
Speaker 2: scores six total touchdowns and throws for three hundred and
18:52
Speaker 2: fifty yards, right, or you know, Mahomes and the Chiefs
18:55
Speaker 2: figure it out, or Lamar squeaks in or Joe Burrow
18:59
Speaker 2: squeaks in to the playoffs and and they get hot
19:02
Speaker 2: at the end of the year. Let's not forget they
19:04
Speaker 2: still have a month of the season to go.
19:06
Speaker 1: So that's the thing, Like if you're Patriots fan, you're
19:08
Speaker 1: you're rooting against some of these teams, making it like
19:12
Speaker 1: if Buffalo lost the Steelers, I think they'd be out today.
19:16
Speaker 1: They're seven seeds.
19:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're currently the seventh seed. And you know, I
19:20
Speaker 2: know that the age doesn't exactly line up, but just
19:22
Speaker 2: from an analogy standpoint, you know, we covered the twenty
19:25
Speaker 2: eighteen team and that team was dead to rights after
19:30
Speaker 2: the Miami miracle, like that team was buried. They had
19:33
Speaker 2: lost to Pittsburgh and then they lost to Miami on
19:36
Speaker 2: the Miami Miracle, and it.
19:38
Speaker 1: Was well, they weren't dead. They were still going to
19:40
Speaker 1: make the playoffs.
19:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were. They were dead to rights, yeah,
19:45
Speaker 2: they and the feeling it was that this was it
19:49
Speaker 2: was over and they just were great. They they captured
19:54
Speaker 2: greatness one more time and they went on a run.
19:57
Speaker 2: And I don't know why any of those other teams
19:59
Speaker 2: with those elite quarters couldn't do the same thing.
20:01
Speaker 1: They have elite quarterbacks, but they don't have the guy.
20:05
Speaker 2: That's fair. That's fair. All right, Let's get to the good,
20:09
Speaker 2: the bad, and the stuff that gets you beat. Not
20:11
Speaker 2: a whole lot on the negatives from this game, So
20:13
Speaker 2: a lot of good to discuss here from Monday night.
20:18
Speaker 2: Let's start with the quarterback. Let's start with Drake May.
20:21
Speaker 2: You know, I thought that he had a little bit
20:23
Speaker 2: of a down performance in Cincinnati. I think we all did,
20:25
Speaker 2: you know, especially early, you know, didn't start very well
20:28
Speaker 2: this game. You know, I think what stands out to
20:31
Speaker 2: me about all of it with Drake May is, especially
20:35
Speaker 2: against you know, some of these defenses that aren't quite
20:37
Speaker 2: as good watching how in command he is of the
20:41
Speaker 2: offense at this point, is really cool to see. It
20:44
Speaker 2: does looks easy. It doesn't look like he's, you know,
20:47
Speaker 2: struggling to find open receivers or struggling with things, you know,
20:51
Speaker 2: in terms of reads and and all that different type
20:53
Speaker 2: of stuff. And he's just distributing the football at a
20:58
Speaker 2: really efficient and high level. And they just he knows
21:01
Speaker 2: where the matchups are, he knows where the openings are
21:04
Speaker 2: going to be in the coverage, he's getting through progressions
21:08
Speaker 2: like it's just a complete command of this offense and
21:12
Speaker 2: zero turnover worthy plays in this game. So yeah, he
21:15
Speaker 2: didn't put the ball at Harm's way. He made a
21:17
Speaker 2: couple again like he does every single week, a couple
21:20
Speaker 2: of really high level throws. This was just Drake May
21:24
Speaker 2: in the zone, like he was just in complete command
21:27
Speaker 2: in this game. And I thought he was for the
21:30
Speaker 2: most part. We'll get to some of the nippicks in
21:31
Speaker 2: the red zone, but for the most part, I thought
21:33
Speaker 2: he was terrific.
21:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, the big thing that stood out to me, and
21:36
Speaker 1: I'll go back to something we talked about when Drake
21:40
Speaker 1: May was on that heater at the beginning of the year,
21:42
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you remember I gave that
21:44
Speaker 1: take that was like I can't wait till we get
21:46
Speaker 1: to the point where Drake May has a big game
21:48
Speaker 1: and it's not news, right, And I compared her to
21:52
Speaker 1: you know, if Tom Brady had thrown for two hundred
21:54
Speaker 1: eighty yards and two touchdowns against a bad Giants team,
21:57
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have come in here and be like, Wow,
21:59
Speaker 1: that's tom Brady, he's got it going on. I would
22:01
Speaker 1: have been like, that's that's what he does. Yeah, it's
22:03
Speaker 1: tom Brady. Are we there with Drake May?
22:06
Speaker 2: Like we're getting there.
22:07
Speaker 1: That's that's Drake May. At this point, I think it's
22:09
Speaker 1: expectation and that's not to diminish what he did. He
22:12
Speaker 1: played well, but we're kind of expecting him to play
22:15
Speaker 1: like that now. The no turnover worthy he plays certainly
22:17
Speaker 1: is nice. The big thing that stood out to me
22:19
Speaker 1: though eight different players targeted, Yeah, all caught at least one,
22:23
Speaker 1: past seven caught at least two. Nobody caught more than four.
22:27
Speaker 1: He was spreading that thing around. He got everybody involved.
22:30
Speaker 1: He forced the defense to defend every blade of grass.
22:32
Speaker 1: That can be a nightmare for a defense when all
22:34
Speaker 1: five guys in the pattern are a whip and at
22:36
Speaker 1: any given time. That was my big Drake may takeaway
22:39
Speaker 1: from this game was how well he spread the ball.
22:40
Speaker 2: Out and that that's always an indication to me that
22:45
Speaker 2: a guy's feeling it and that he's running the offense.
22:49
Speaker 2: Like Josh McDaniels' offense. Is that kind of offense you
22:52
Speaker 2: throw to the open guy. I know it's cliche, but
22:54
Speaker 2: that's really the truth. And all of it is about,
22:57
Speaker 2: you know, formationally, in spacing wise, like how can we
23:00
Speaker 2: create favorable matchups for our playmakers and let's find those
23:04
Speaker 2: matchups and hunt those matchups. And so that could mean
23:07
Speaker 2: that the play and the read takes you to Kyle
23:10
Speaker 2: Williams on a touchdown, or that could mean that, you know,
23:13
Speaker 2: they ran on the opening drive, they ran host Duke,
23:16
Speaker 2: they put Stefon Diggs inside, they got him on a linebacker,
23:19
Speaker 2: and Drake Maye took it for thirteen yards. It wasn't
23:22
Speaker 2: the most sophisticated throw of all time, it wasn't the
23:25
Speaker 2: best throw he's ever made, but it was just easy,
23:28
Speaker 2: conventional offense. And this team's being able to do that,
23:32
Speaker 2: I think is the biggest difference between the offense that
23:35
Speaker 2: we've watched the last couple of years and the offense
23:37
Speaker 2: that we've watched this year is that they're they're winning
23:42
Speaker 2: in the traditional drop back game where it doesn't have
23:45
Speaker 2: to be you know, pulling teeth. They're not in long
23:49
Speaker 2: down in distance a lot, and they're not having to
23:52
Speaker 2: like do this smoke and mirrors thing where everything is
23:54
Speaker 2: just kind of you know, disguised and you know they're
23:58
Speaker 2: motioning or they're doing different trick plays or whatever. That
24:01
Speaker 2: was a little bit more not all the time, but
24:04
Speaker 2: like that to me was a little bit more what
24:05
Speaker 2: was going on in twenty twenty one was that it
24:08
Speaker 2: was a lot of scheme. You know, the scheme was
24:10
Speaker 2: really doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this offense.
24:14
Speaker 2: It just feels like they're able to run conventional traditional
24:18
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels, staples and just win, you know, whether it's
24:22
Speaker 2: the receivers winning or Drake May winning or Bowl. So
24:25
Speaker 2: that that's been really good to see continuing and just
24:29
Speaker 2: you know, to kind of segue this into this next point,
24:32
Speaker 2: I don't think that they necessarily did anything that they
24:35
Speaker 2: haven't been doing all year to manage the offensive line.
24:38
Speaker 2: I thought that that was something that we might see,
24:41
Speaker 2: but this wasn't like a quick game special like this Yeah,
24:46
Speaker 2: they ran the offense and they were able to do so. Now,
24:48
Speaker 2: Drake May had his second fastest time to release of
24:52
Speaker 2: the season in this game. So he did a really
24:55
Speaker 2: nice job. And I think this is another you know,
24:56
Speaker 2: feather in his cap for this game. I thought that
24:59
Speaker 2: his kind of just like mindset or you know, internal
25:05
Speaker 2: clock in the pocket was really good in this game. Yeah,
25:08
Speaker 2: and I think he knew, you know, they have two
25:10
Speaker 2: really good edge rushers. I can't sit here and hold
25:13
Speaker 2: the ball all game long. And I thought that his
25:15
Speaker 2: poise and sort of him managing the rush as a
25:18
Speaker 2: quarterback was really really good in this game, which to
25:22
Speaker 2: me is is sort of next level type of stuff,
25:26
Speaker 2: Like that's like the Brady stuff where it's like, all right,
25:28
Speaker 2: this is you know, we got a backup left tackle.
25:31
Speaker 2: They have these two really good edge rushers. I'm not
25:33
Speaker 2: gonna sit here all day and hold the ball, and
25:36
Speaker 2: they'll be able to kind of help out your guys
25:38
Speaker 2: that way. Speaking of that, the offensive line got to
25:41
Speaker 2: give them flowers. Got to give flowers to Vederian low
25:44
Speaker 2: and Ben Brown. Started off a little slow for Vederian Lowe.
25:48
Speaker 2: I had three hurries allowed early on in this game.
25:51
Speaker 2: Two to Carter, one to Burns, but then really from
25:55
Speaker 2: like the middle of the second quarter on, he was
25:58
Speaker 2: clean the whole rest of the way. Really good performance
26:01
Speaker 2: from him. You know, Ben Brown got called for the
26:03
Speaker 2: hold on Carter. You know, Carter rushed over him on
26:06
Speaker 2: one play and he got called for a hold. But
26:09
Speaker 2: other than that, I thought that he was really solid
26:11
Speaker 2: in this game as well. They had these guys ready
26:15
Speaker 2: to play, and that's another testament to McDaniels, to Doug Moron,
26:19
Speaker 2: to Coog's, to Jason Hotling, the offensive line coaches. You know,
26:24
Speaker 2: those guys did a great job getting Vederian Lowe and
26:27
Speaker 2: Ben Brown ready to play, ready to go. Ben Brown
26:31
Speaker 2: is is quickly turning into this Patriots version of Ted Carris.
26:36
Speaker 2: Like he he's a starting caliber player, I think maybe
26:39
Speaker 2: on the interior, but he's probably best as like a
26:42
Speaker 2: super sub, you know, as a sixth offensive lineman. And
26:46
Speaker 2: that's an extremely Now Ted has gone on to be
26:49
Speaker 2: a full time starter and be a really good player
26:51
Speaker 2: in Miami and Cincinnati. But for now, like for Ben Brown,
26:55
Speaker 2: that's a really valuable piece to have. You know, I
26:58
Speaker 2: don't know how long Jared Wilson's to be out, but
27:00
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like it's going to be as long
27:02
Speaker 2: as Will Campbell, so he's going to come back. But
27:05
Speaker 2: to have a guy like Ben Brown that can spot
27:07
Speaker 2: start for two, three, four games and it doesn't really
27:10
Speaker 2: have a huge drop off. Not every team has backup
27:13
Speaker 2: interior play like that in the league. So he's been
27:16
Speaker 2: really solid.
27:17
Speaker 1: No, he's been important player for them. The Ted Kerris
27:19
Speaker 1: comparison is apt and he I believe he's on a
27:22
Speaker 1: one year deal right or knows he's still an RFA,
27:25
Speaker 1: Like he's somebody who's probably gonna get a chance to
27:27
Speaker 1: go somewhere and start in the future, maybe here, you know,
27:30
Speaker 1: if they be okay, he's a left guard, you move
27:32
Speaker 1: Jared Wilson inside, maybe somewhere else. But he's been good.
27:36
Speaker 1: Vedarian Low stepped up again. I think it helps that
27:40
Speaker 1: the right side is in better shape than it's been.
27:42
Speaker 1: He is a ERFA by the way, Ben Brown, so
27:46
Speaker 1: he can be back next year.
27:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:48
Speaker 1: No, those guys deserve a ton of credit for coming
27:50
Speaker 1: up the way they did. Like you said, it's one
27:51
Speaker 1: game they're gonna have to do it against you know,
27:53
Speaker 1: Buffalo pass Rush next week. That's gonna take things to
27:56
Speaker 1: another level. But yeah, I get to the end of
27:58
Speaker 1: that game and I I you know, going through my takeaways,
28:03
Speaker 1: and I like almost forgot to put the offensive line
28:05
Speaker 1: because they were what you want the offensive line to be,
28:07
Speaker 1: out of site, out of mind, down two starters, the
28:09
Speaker 1: third guy hurt. You're not expecting them to be out
28:12
Speaker 1: of site. You're expecting that to be a talking point.
28:14
Speaker 1: And they played a very clean game.
28:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were really uh, they were really solid in
28:19
Speaker 2: this game. I thought they saw some pressures pretty well
28:22
Speaker 2: as well on the left side, which I was a
28:24
Speaker 2: little bit worried about with two guys that haven't practiced
28:26
Speaker 2: a lot next to each other. Yeah, and I thought
28:29
Speaker 2: they they were able to communicate through.
28:31
Speaker 1: Not just how much did they practice against each other.
28:33
Speaker 1: David Andrews brought this up on our podcast a couple
28:35
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. When you have two rookies starting, you're
28:40
Speaker 1: going to maximize their reps. Yeah, so even more than
28:44
Speaker 1: maybe or even less than the average backup. Like, how
28:46
Speaker 1: many opportunities did those guys really get in practice before
28:50
Speaker 1: last week?
28:50
Speaker 2: And you know, going back to training Campearian Lowe was.
28:53
Speaker 1: Hurt, that's right, right, he missed like most of the.
28:56
Speaker 2: Summer for a lot of training camp. He was hurt,
28:58
Speaker 2: so you know, really kudos to them stepped up. Like
29:02
Speaker 2: you said, you know, Buffalo and Baltimore coming up like
29:05
Speaker 2: it's it's just one game, and they gotta you know,
29:07
Speaker 2: you gotta do it more than just once. But if
29:09
Speaker 2: this is the level of play, I don't know if
29:12
Speaker 2: Vaderian Low is going to be quite this good. He
29:14
Speaker 2: was really good in this game. But if it's close
29:17
Speaker 2: to the level of play that you're going to get
29:19
Speaker 2: from Ben Brown and Vederian Low until Campbell and Wilson
29:22
Speaker 2: come back, that they're going to survive this, like they'll
29:25
Speaker 2: weather this with those two guys down, which is really cool.
29:28
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure about that. I full hand up, admit.
29:31
Speaker 2: Now it's one game, let's see it for multiple but
29:33
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if they were going to be able to,
29:35
Speaker 2: you know, survive this without Campbell. If this is what
29:39
Speaker 2: they get from Low, they will And he was really
29:42
Speaker 2: solid in this game as well. A couple more standouts
29:45
Speaker 2: on offense and we'll talk some defense and special teams.
29:48
Speaker 2: I've got to talk about the Kyle Williams touchdown. Yeah,
29:51
Speaker 2: that is a hell of a release. At the line
29:52
Speaker 2: of scrimmage by Kyle Well, he before we even get
29:55
Speaker 2: to that.
29:55
Speaker 1: I just want to give him credit to play before
29:57
Speaker 1: Kaisham Bouti catches a comeback. It was second and long,
30:00
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't know what he did. He did something.
30:03
Speaker 1: He actually leaves the game and he ended up on
30:06
Speaker 1: the sideline. Didn't have to stop the game, but he
30:09
Speaker 1: goes over to the sideline, sits down, and like the
30:11
Speaker 1: training staff comes over to him, and he was obviously fine.
30:13
Speaker 1: You know, he came back in the game later whatever,
30:15
Speaker 1: But like he got hurt on that play. So that's
30:18
Speaker 1: that play's not designed for Kyle Williams. That's not like
30:21
Speaker 1: the Kyle Williams package that they had in the game.
30:24
Speaker 1: He has to come on the field moments notice, you know,
30:28
Speaker 1: as the backup for Kashun Booty. And then he, like
30:31
Speaker 1: you said, he makes an unbelievable play for a guy
30:33
Speaker 1: that you know, we've wondered, is he on the same page?
30:36
Speaker 1: Is he in tune with the rest of the offense
30:38
Speaker 1: as much as he needs to be to have a
30:40
Speaker 1: moment like that. It's not everything, but I think that's
30:43
Speaker 1: really encouraging and credit to him for staying ready, being ready,
30:45
Speaker 1: getting there in the moment and then boom, he's thrust
30:48
Speaker 1: into the game unexpected, goes out and makes play. Credit
30:51
Speaker 1: to Drake May two for trusting him in that situation.
30:53
Speaker 1: But I think that's a good sign that maybe things
30:55
Speaker 1: are trending in the right direction for Kyle Williams, because
30:57
Speaker 1: that's not easy to do, come and cold and make
30:58
Speaker 1: a play like that, and he did it.
31:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Giants were really hoping that Paulson had
31:04
Speaker 2: a bio being back was gonna be good for their defense.
31:07
Speaker 2: He's one of their starting corners that's been out the
31:09
Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. And Kyle Williams just dusts Paulson
31:12
Speaker 2: at a bio at the line of scrimmage with a
31:15
Speaker 2: little you know, one step, you know, stretch crossover release
31:19
Speaker 2: and he just he just burned up. And when you
31:22
Speaker 2: are well, first of all, you know, Drake may when
31:25
Speaker 2: they were kind of like running a like a mable
31:28
Speaker 2: like cover three type of coverage on the play where
31:30
Speaker 2: they're zoning the passing strains those three by one, you know,
31:33
Speaker 2: three receivers to the right, one to the left, and uh,
31:36
Speaker 2: they're they're playing zoned to the passing strength of the
31:38
Speaker 2: formation on the right hand side, so they're just playing
31:41
Speaker 2: it like spot drop cover three essentially, and the backside's
31:44
Speaker 2: man to man. They're they're your backside, you're locked man
31:47
Speaker 2: to man on the backside, so it's eye to bio
31:50
Speaker 2: versus Kyle Williams. When Drake May sees that from coverage,
31:53
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, post safety quarters whatever, if your
31:57
Speaker 2: backside man to man without safety, hell, he's he's hunted
32:01
Speaker 2: like that. That's a deep ball every single time. And
32:04
Speaker 2: it's kind of a lot of teams play those types
32:06
Speaker 2: of coverages, but it kind of blows my mind, like
32:09
Speaker 2: teams keep doing it against the Patriots because Drake May
32:13
Speaker 2: has thrown that touchdown pass now, especially in that spot
32:16
Speaker 2: of the field to kaish On Booty and now Kyle
32:19
Speaker 2: Williams at least half a dozen times.
32:22
Speaker 1: How many of them two have been specifically in that
32:25
Speaker 1: corner of the stadium, And Yeah, I feel like he
32:28
Speaker 1: keeps doing it in that corner of the stadium Cleveland,
32:31
Speaker 1: it was on that corner of the stadium to kaish
32:34
Speaker 1: on Booty coupled in New Orleans, they did twice in
32:38
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Miami. In Miami and Week two he threw
32:41
Speaker 1: a touchdown to Booty on backside one on one uh
32:44
Speaker 1: the uh left to right far side.
32:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, Titans in Tennessee. Yeah, he threw a bomb to
32:49
Speaker 2: Booty again for a touchdown on the same kind of coverage.
32:53
Speaker 2: And then now to Kyle Williams. That's, off the top
32:55
Speaker 2: of my head, that's five touchdown passes that he's thrown
32:58
Speaker 2: against that type of coverage. So if you keep doing
33:01
Speaker 2: that against Drake May, he's just going to keep hitting
33:03
Speaker 2: you with the go ball and they're going to keep
33:05
Speaker 2: winning down the field. So I just put the safety
33:08
Speaker 2: over the top of it on that side of the field. Okay,
33:11
Speaker 2: stop doing that if you're a defense. But a really
33:15
Speaker 2: good release by Kyle Williams. Now, yeah, the seventy two
33:18
Speaker 2: yard touchdown in Tampa, he has a thirty three yard touchdown.
33:22
Speaker 2: It's the one catch he made in both games. Right,
33:24
Speaker 2: So it's not all the way there in terms of volume,
33:28
Speaker 2: but these little flashes are at least more than what
33:31
Speaker 2: we saw from some of the other high draft pick
33:33
Speaker 2: receivers of the Patriots over the last handful of years.
33:37
Speaker 2: Like this is more than we ever saw from Nikhil Harry,
33:40
Speaker 2: Taekwan Thornton, Jalen Polk, you know those types of players.
33:43
Speaker 2: So how encouraged are you right now about Kyle Williams,
33:46
Speaker 2: who's also in his defense is you know these behind
33:49
Speaker 2: vets like they're playing digs, they're playing Matt Collins, they're
33:53
Speaker 2: playing booty. But I think Kyle Williams is starting to
33:55
Speaker 2: really show out here, and this is around the time
33:58
Speaker 2: where rookies start to emer you know, Tayon Henderson's doing it,
34:02
Speaker 2: Kyle Williams is doing it as well.
34:04
Speaker 1: No, I think that again, it's encouraging that to come
34:07
Speaker 1: on in that spot and make that play, I think
34:09
Speaker 1: shows a lot of growth. Do you have a little
34:10
Speaker 1: bit of Patriots breaking news here?
34:12
Speaker 2: Okay?
34:13
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft are both among the finalists
34:16
Speaker 1: announced for the Hall of Fame class at twenty twenty six.
34:19
Speaker 1: Belichick obviously from the Coaching committee, Craft from the Contributor committee,
34:23
Speaker 1: Stanley Morgan hit but up from the Seniors Committee. He
34:25
Speaker 1: is not among the finalists, of course.
34:27
Speaker 2: Not so those are two separate committees. Yeah, so they
34:31
Speaker 2: could go in together, just to clear the way it works.
34:34
Speaker 1: There's the modern era, which is the main ballots. Everybody
34:36
Speaker 1: knows about and then they changed this last couple years
34:38
Speaker 1: of news the Coach Committee, Contributor Committee, and Seniors Committee,
34:41
Speaker 1: So the coach and contributor each get one finalists, the
34:45
Speaker 1: seniors get three, and then the modern era I think
34:47
Speaker 1: is twenty six finalists all those people, or no, I
34:51
Speaker 1: think it's nine finalists. I think twenty six is where
34:54
Speaker 1: they're at now. All of those people then go on
34:59
Speaker 1: to one big ballot at the end that all the
35:02
Speaker 1: committees vote on it. It's anywhere between four and eight,
35:04
Speaker 1: so they don't have to pick somebody from any of
35:07
Speaker 1: the committees, like the Seniors Committee does not have to
35:09
Speaker 1: be represented like I think last year the coaching finalist
35:11
Speaker 1: was Holmgren, Yeah, who obviously didn't get in, so they
35:16
Speaker 1: don't have to pick each one. But these are Bill
35:20
Speaker 1: and Robert on the final final ballot.
35:23
Speaker 2: So both deserve to get in. Of course, this night,
35:28
Speaker 2: though NFL honors twenty twenty five, it would be in
35:32
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six technically, but then for the Class of
35:34
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, yeah, for the twenty twenty five season.
35:37
Speaker 2: In the Class of twenty twenty six is all the
35:40
Speaker 2: ap postseason, the war accolades, all the awards, MVP player,
35:46
Speaker 2: you know, Offensive Player of the Year, Coach of the Year.
35:48
Speaker 2: All of those awards are presented at the NFL Honors
35:51
Speaker 2: the night before the year, the couple days before the
35:53
Speaker 2: Super Bowl, Yeah, Thursday usually, and then so is the
35:56
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame class, right, so there is a chance
35:59
Speaker 2: that on that night, Mike Rabel could win Coach of
36:03
Speaker 2: the Year, Drake May could win MVP. Robert Craft and
36:07
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick could get into the Hall of Fame, Adam
36:09
Speaker 2: Van Terry could get into the Hall of Fame, Rodney
36:12
Speaker 2: Harrison could get into the Hall of Fame. Like, this
36:14
Speaker 2: could be Patriots Palooza, and that also is an including
36:18
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels as potential assistant Coach of the Year, Stefan
36:22
Speaker 2: Diggs nominated for Comeback Player of the Year like the Patriots.
36:25
Speaker 1: Also, you left somebody out. There's three. I mean, there's
36:27
Speaker 1: a couple of other guys who are here for a
36:28
Speaker 1: cup of coffee, but the three guys on the modern
36:30
Speaker 1: era that are waiting for the next cut. Rodney, you said,
36:32
Speaker 1: Vin Terry, Big Vince, Yeah him too, thro Big Vince
36:36
Speaker 1: in there.
36:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're talking about a night and I know
36:39
Speaker 2: we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, and we'll
36:41
Speaker 2: get back to this giant's breakdown. But we're talking about
36:44
Speaker 2: a night at NFL Honors in February that could literally
36:47
Speaker 2: be a Patriots I mean that could be.
36:50
Speaker 1: We've talked about the Patriots.
36:51
Speaker 2: I know what the word is. I don't want to
36:53
Speaker 2: use it on the air, but I know what the words.
36:55
Speaker 1: Well, well, let me put this. We've talked about the
36:57
Speaker 1: Patriots being back right in the national adult film Well
37:00
Speaker 1: all right, yes, but also we talked about the Patriots
37:04
Speaker 1: being back in the national sense. Ye think about this.
37:06
Speaker 1: They go in and take over NFL Honors when they're
37:10
Speaker 1: potentially on their way to the super Bowl, like, you
37:12
Speaker 1: can't you can't hide at that point. I think there's
37:15
Speaker 1: some people that are still closing their eyes and trying
37:18
Speaker 1: to hide it all.
37:18
Speaker 2: It'll be over soon.
37:19
Speaker 1: They are a young team week scheduling the bounds to
37:21
Speaker 1: the playoffs. If we get to that point, past present, future,
37:26
Speaker 1: it's all there. You can't hide a Scott Zolac said
37:28
Speaker 1: America's Nightmare would be fully back if that were to happen.
37:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh.
37:33
Speaker 1: And by the way, I do think I mean Bill's
37:35
Speaker 1: gonna get in first ballot hopestly. I mean, I feel
37:38
Speaker 1: the modern era class is not as strong as it's
37:41
Speaker 1: been the last few years. So there's some guys obviously
37:44
Speaker 1: that are going to get in. But I this does
37:47
Speaker 1: feel like more of a year where like the Seniors
37:49
Speaker 1: Committee and the you know all that maybe get a
37:51
Speaker 1: little more weight.
37:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, obviously Bill should be in first ballot, right,
37:55
Speaker 2: but you know, just decide really quickly if Vinitary doesn't
37:58
Speaker 2: get in the sky.
38:00
Speaker 1: It's just I was furious last year. I'm still kind
38:02
Speaker 1: of mad.
38:02
Speaker 2: I don't really understand it. I'll get over it if
38:05
Speaker 2: they let him in this year, but it should be
38:07
Speaker 2: a slam dunk home run that Minitary's a Hall of Famer.
38:11
Speaker 2: Back to the Giants game, a couple of other skill
38:15
Speaker 2: players that I thought were really good in this game.
38:17
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry just continues to be just an awesome player
38:20
Speaker 2: for this football team, really really good. You know, the
38:25
Speaker 2: thirty six yarder explosive was a great bit of you know,
38:29
Speaker 2: coverage manipulation. Little pump fait by Drake may to open
38:33
Speaker 2: the passing lane, but Henry's right where he's supposed to be.
38:36
Speaker 2: A couple of big third down catches as well that
38:39
Speaker 2: were kind of sneaky important in this game to get
38:42
Speaker 2: this lead built. Henry's just awesome, just continues to be awesome.
38:47
Speaker 2: He also, you know, the Williams touchdown was one of
38:50
Speaker 2: the you know, handful, small handful of times where they
38:53
Speaker 2: really load up protection and they went with seven blockers
38:56
Speaker 2: and the protection and they left Henry into block and
38:59
Speaker 2: they had just an incredibly clean pocket for Drake may
39:04
Speaker 2: On the Williams touchdown, You're just like he was having
39:06
Speaker 2: a picnic back there throwing that ball. So Henry was
39:10
Speaker 2: in that protection as well in the last one. You know,
39:12
Speaker 2: this is the emergence. And again this kind of goes
39:15
Speaker 2: the same with Kyle Williams. You often see this with
39:18
Speaker 2: with rookies where the back half of the season they
39:20
Speaker 2: start to come on and you get the player you expected.
39:23
Speaker 2: Travon Henderson is really starting to emerging. Eighty six total
39:28
Speaker 2: yards from scrimmage fourteen touches. He was by far their
39:32
Speaker 2: most efficient, you know, highest yar per carry average runner
39:35
Speaker 2: between him and Ramandra Stevenson. I understand that people want
39:40
Speaker 2: to see Henderson out snap and really take over this backfield.
39:45
Speaker 2: I will just say what I've said all year long,
39:48
Speaker 2: and that is I want them to continue to manage
39:52
Speaker 2: Travon Henderson a little bit. I don't want him to
39:55
Speaker 2: be a bell cow. I don't want him to, you know,
39:58
Speaker 2: get worn down. It's a long season. The playoffs are coming.
40:02
Speaker 2: You want him to be your Jamiir Gibbs, your dynamic
40:06
Speaker 2: weapon come playoff time. Is fine, it's fine. They're gonna
40:10
Speaker 2: beat teams like the Giants. They're gonna beat teams like
40:13
Speaker 2: the Dolphins and the Jets with platooning these backs. When
40:16
Speaker 2: the time comes and it comes to those big, you know,
40:19
Speaker 2: sort of moments and big drives, yes, I would like
40:23
Speaker 2: to see Travion out there and being an impact player
40:26
Speaker 2: for them. But for right now, I'm you know, let's
40:30
Speaker 2: let's keep Travion Henderson fresh and let's not ride him
40:33
Speaker 2: into the ground.
40:34
Speaker 1: Hopefully, by the time they get to Miami and the Jets,
40:36
Speaker 1: like we see a bigger dose to Treel Jennings or
40:38
Speaker 1: maybe somebody comes up off the practice part or something
40:40
Speaker 1: like that.
40:40
Speaker 2: He was but Henderson was really good and I thought
40:42
Speaker 2: that in particular, what was really good about Henderson in
40:45
Speaker 2: this game is that last field goal drive that made
40:48
Speaker 2: it a three score game. Again, they they really you know,
40:51
Speaker 2: he had the twenty six yard run, which is his
40:53
Speaker 2: big run of the day, but he also grinded out
40:56
Speaker 2: some really tough, like kind of dirty yards on that drive,
40:59
Speaker 2: and that that's what you want. That was a twelve
41:02
Speaker 2: thirteen play six minute clock killing drive. Let's kick the
41:06
Speaker 2: field goal to make it an eighteen point game. That
41:09
Speaker 2: was like one of those like let's put this game
41:13
Speaker 2: to bed type of drives, and they really kind of
41:15
Speaker 2: did it on the back of Trevon Henderson.
41:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say too, Like I thought Ramondre ran well
41:20
Speaker 1: in this game. Obviously Henderson was good, but we talked
41:22
Speaker 1: about the physicality the defense. Let's not lose track the
41:25
Speaker 1: physicality offense. I have not seen Ramondre Stevenson run that
41:28
Speaker 1: hard in a minute, and you know, maybe got a
41:31
Speaker 1: couple weeks off deal with the tow injury. Just overall
41:33
Speaker 1: physically was able to reset a little bit. I thought
41:36
Speaker 1: both backs looked good in this game.
41:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, the running game was not good situationally, but they
41:40
Speaker 2: did have some success between the twenties and they were
41:43
Speaker 2: able to run the ball a little bit in this game,
41:46
Speaker 2: as you would expect against the Giants defense. Just quickly.
41:50
Speaker 2: On the Patriots defense, I have some nitpicks here in
41:54
Speaker 2: the bads, but I thought the pass defense was really
41:56
Speaker 2: good in this game. The coverage I thought was excellent
41:58
Speaker 2: for most of the game. Richian Gonzalez looked like he
42:01
Speaker 2: was in cruise control like these receivers for the Giants.
42:04
Speaker 2: Just it was light work for Christian Gonzalez, Wandel Robinson
42:07
Speaker 2: and Darius Slayton no offense, but it was like he was,
42:10
Speaker 2: you know, having a stroll in the park for this
42:13
Speaker 2: entire game. He was dominant, dominant in this one as well.
42:18
Speaker 2: And then you know, I thought that they tried to
42:21
Speaker 2: dial up some shots the Giants did, especially off of
42:24
Speaker 2: under center play action when the Patriots had it covered.
42:27
Speaker 2: They had some good kind of covered drinkles to handle
42:29
Speaker 2: some of the two and three man route combinations out
42:32
Speaker 2: of you know, cover three and quarters in this game
42:35
Speaker 2: as well. So really the other thing too with the
42:38
Speaker 2: pass defense, not necessarily that I thought it was great
42:42
Speaker 2: per se because they gave up a thirty yard touchdown
42:45
Speaker 2: on a cover zero. They're clearly trying to get some
42:51
Speaker 2: get their exotic Blitz pat Blitz package installed and practiced
42:56
Speaker 2: in game settings, and I think that that's something that
42:59
Speaker 2: they're going to want to have at their disposal come
43:03
Speaker 2: playoff time. Is being a little bit more exotic in
43:06
Speaker 2: terms of bringing pressure and simulating pressure where you line
43:09
Speaker 2: up a bunch of guys in the line of scrimmage
43:10
Speaker 2: and who's coming, who's going. Sometimes you bluff out of
43:13
Speaker 2: it and you drop out of it, sometimes you bring it.
43:16
Speaker 2: That's been clearly something that they're trying to get some
43:19
Speaker 2: game reps out of. Like even at the end of
43:22
Speaker 2: this game, it's thirty three to fifteen, the last two
43:24
Speaker 2: plays of that Giant's final drive there cover zero blitz,
43:28
Speaker 2: you know, And I think the reason why it was
43:30
Speaker 2: not because they necessarily felt like they needed to make
43:33
Speaker 2: a play. It was thirty three to fifteen at that point.
43:36
Speaker 2: But I think they want to try to get that
43:38
Speaker 2: thing going and try to make that something that they
43:41
Speaker 2: can lean on come playoff time to generate pressure. But
43:44
Speaker 2: the coverage in this game I thought was really good. Yeah.
43:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, I mean it's the Giants again, They're going
43:49
Speaker 1: to step up of the Bills don't have much at
43:50
Speaker 1: the wide receiver position either, but now fuck Gonzales. Yeah,
43:54
Speaker 1: lowering the shoulder on Wandale Robinson. Yeah, I see him
43:58
Speaker 1: hit like that.
43:59
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean like I was gonna mention that too.
44:01
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought it up. Even the corners tackle
44:04
Speaker 2: like you know, like Carlon Davis threw a dude to
44:06
Speaker 2: the ground for a three yard loss. Gonzalez is tackling now,
44:10
Speaker 2: was like he's doing it as like the flat defender
44:12
Speaker 2: and cover too. It's like the easiest tackle to make, but.
44:14
Speaker 1: He's still healing, but he he put a little more
44:17
Speaker 1: into it and.
44:18
Speaker 2: He's not his game and he's Yeah, you know, they
44:20
Speaker 2: only they even got the corners tackling.
44:22
Speaker 1: They played fu football. That's what that was. That was
44:25
Speaker 1: f U football. I hope we see more of it.
44:26
Speaker 1: That was awesome.
44:28
Speaker 2: Okay, we gotta talk a little bit about the special teams. Uh,
44:31
Speaker 2: mar Marcus Jones ninety four yard punt return. I think
44:36
Speaker 2: that Marcus Jones might be the I mean, Devin Hester's
44:39
Speaker 2: Devin Hester. He might be the second best punt returner
44:43
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. You know, Devin Hester's in his own category.
44:46
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it was a very brief window. Let's
44:48
Speaker 1: not forget Dante Hall. Dante Hall was electric.
44:51
Speaker 2: Dante Hall was electric. He's but he's.
44:53
Speaker 1: Like entering that. Look, statistically, he's the best in NFL.
44:56
Speaker 1: His Yeah, highest average by like two yards, I think
44:58
Speaker 1: by two yards per return. So that punt return, give
45:03
Speaker 1: me a second here, because you're gonna like, I'm gonna
45:05
Speaker 1: say that was, you know, really impressive punt return all
45:09
Speaker 1: things considered, Well, yeah, of course it was. It was
45:11
Speaker 1: a touchdown. Like even as far as punt return touchdowns go,
45:14
Speaker 1: like sometimes as you make a guy missing the coverage
45:17
Speaker 1: screws up or you know, the blockings all there and
45:19
Speaker 1: you just get a clear runway, you got to you
45:21
Speaker 1: just have to go that the punter out kicked his coverage. Like,
45:26
Speaker 1: even if you were to rank just the touchdowns, just
45:29
Speaker 1: the punt return touchdowns, that one would be towards top
45:32
Speaker 1: of the list for me because it's it's so many
45:34
Speaker 1: the boxes you look for in an elite returner. He
45:37
Speaker 1: used everything in the toolbox. Yeah, the patience, the vision,
45:41
Speaker 1: the speed, the balance. I mean, look, I know it's
45:43
Speaker 1: the punter, but Jamie Gillen's not a small guy to show.
45:46
Speaker 2: Also, it was like rugby Aussie rules, like he's also
45:50
Speaker 2: like a former like it might be Gaelic football but
45:53
Speaker 2: he's like a former Gaelic football player, I think it is.
45:58
Speaker 2: And like those guys have to tackle that sport. So
46:00
Speaker 2: this is not a guy that doesn't know how to
46:02
Speaker 2: tack to.
46:02
Speaker 1: Get him to shake him along the sideline as close
46:05
Speaker 1: to the sideline as he was balanced and body controls
46:08
Speaker 1: a huge part of that job. Yeah, and so that
46:12
Speaker 1: and he almost broke another one later too. Just tremendously
46:15
Speaker 1: and pribably. He is the best punt return in the
46:16
Speaker 1: league right now. You know, we want to get in
46:18
Speaker 1: historic context, Devin Hester. You know, we could talk about
46:22
Speaker 1: that Dante Hall the human joystick, but it's even as
46:28
Speaker 1: far as touchdowns go, that was a high level punt return.
46:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really good. So you know, he's he's
46:36
Speaker 2: one of the best I've ever seen do it. He
46:38
Speaker 2: continues to just do it at an extremely high level,
46:42
Speaker 2: Like even little things like that fair catch that he
46:44
Speaker 2: had before halftime in the two minute drill, like he
46:48
Speaker 2: runs like fifteen yards to make sure the ball doesn't
46:51
Speaker 2: bounce and he fair catches it, which instead of the
46:54
Speaker 2: ball bouncing and then rolling into inside the twenty, it's
46:58
Speaker 2: a fair catch at the twenty three. Like that's that's
47:01
Speaker 2: ten fifteen yards. That's important yardage in that situation. So
47:05
Speaker 2: he's even like does like the little detail things like
47:08
Speaker 2: that as a punt returner, you know, bluffing you know,
47:11
Speaker 2: the ball going over his head and going into the
47:14
Speaker 2: end zone when it's a touchback, right like, and you
47:16
Speaker 2: know selling that to the defense fair catches to avoid
47:20
Speaker 2: the ball rolling on him. You know, obviously house and punts.
47:23
Speaker 2: You know, he had a seventeen yard return on top
47:25
Speaker 2: of the ninety four yard return as well in this game,
47:27
Speaker 2: so just excellent. They also and this kind of goes
47:31
Speaker 2: back to the whole thing of like, you know, tough
47:33
Speaker 2: teams cover kicks and like when you dominate on special
47:36
Speaker 2: teams like the Patriots did on Monday night, like you
47:39
Speaker 2: are just the more physical, more you know, locked in,
47:42
Speaker 2: tougher football team. And they had the big return on
47:45
Speaker 2: the kickoff, thirty nine yard return by Terrell Jennings on
47:49
Speaker 2: a kickoff, and then of course they recovered a fumble
47:51
Speaker 2: on a Giants kickoff as well. In all sincerity, I
47:55
Speaker 2: hope Gunneralschewski is okay, but they recovered the fumble that
48:00
Speaker 2: as well. And then of course we had Young Wayku
48:02
Speaker 2: having one of the worst kick attempts I've ever seen.
48:06
Speaker 2: All putting all this together, the Patriots special teams just
48:08
Speaker 2: thoroughly dominated. So this was really like a three phase
48:12
Speaker 2: domination offense, defense, and special teams. We're all super dominant
48:17
Speaker 2: in this game for the Patriots. All right, let's get
48:19
Speaker 2: to some of the nitpicks and I'll say, like, this
48:22
Speaker 2: is all nitpicky like stuff to work on. Yeah, it's
48:29
Speaker 2: if I think that one's in the stuff that gets
48:31
Speaker 2: to beat category. If we're on the same page, the
48:35
Speaker 2: Patriots run defense is worrying me not a lot, because
48:42
Speaker 2: not I say, I should say not a lot.
48:44
Speaker 1: The Browns that designated to Shaun Watson return of oh.
48:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was coming. The reason why it's not I'm
48:52
Speaker 2: not in like any sort of panic about the run
48:55
Speaker 2: defense is because Tonga and Milton Williams are supposed to
48:58
Speaker 2: be coming back, right, So big part of this is
49:00
Speaker 2: that you're missing your three hundred and thirty five pound
49:03
Speaker 2: nos tackle and you're missing your best defensive lineman. So
49:07
Speaker 2: if you get those two guys back, then in theory,
49:09
Speaker 2: your run defense should come back around. But after really
49:13
Speaker 2: having an excellent first nine weeks of the season, the
49:16
Speaker 2: Patriots run defense. In the last four games of the season,
49:20
Speaker 2: alex are allowing a fifty five point one percent success
49:25
Speaker 2: rate that is dead last in the NFL. They're the
49:27
Speaker 2: worst run defense in football the last month of the season.
49:30
Speaker 2: They are twenty fifth in EPA, they're dead last and
49:33
Speaker 2: success rate, they're allowing almost five yards to carry. It's
49:37
Speaker 2: like four point eight or four point nine yards of
49:39
Speaker 2: carry during that stretch of time. So that's Tampa, Cincinnati,
49:43
Speaker 2: the Giants, and the Jets are doing that to the
49:46
Speaker 2: Patriots run defense right now. The Giants, you know, four
49:48
Speaker 2: point seven yards a clip against the Patriots on Monday Night. Really,
49:53
Speaker 2: we're able to run the ball pretty well and effectively.
49:56
Speaker 2: Now again they're getting their guys back. But go to
50:00
Speaker 2: come on your side of the street a little bit
50:01
Speaker 2: with this take. This is kind of a sneaky run first.
50:06
Speaker 2: AFC Field, Buffalo, Baltimore, Indy, Jacksonville and all built on
50:12
Speaker 2: their run game.
50:13
Speaker 1: Denver's gonna need to be able to run the football
50:15
Speaker 1: to win. Maybe they're not built on the run game,
50:16
Speaker 1: but they're gonna to be able to.
50:17
Speaker 2: See Yeah, and I think the Chargers run game would
50:19
Speaker 2: be better if they had their linemen healthy, like if
50:21
Speaker 2: Joe All comes back. But all four of those teams
50:24
Speaker 2: that I just named, Buffalo, Baltimore, Indie, Jacksonville are very
50:29
Speaker 2: very good, all top ten in rush EPA. But also
50:32
Speaker 2: just that's their engine of their offense is their run game.
50:35
Speaker 2: So in the playoffs, when you get to the postseason,
50:38
Speaker 2: it's always a styles wind fight, you know, boxing kind
50:40
Speaker 2: of analogy where it's like weakness versus weakness or strained
50:45
Speaker 2: versus weakness. One game playoff, you know, if you don't
50:48
Speaker 2: get your run defense in order, let's not even jump
50:51
Speaker 2: to the playoffs for Buffalo and Baltimore. Buffalo just ran
50:55
Speaker 2: for two hundred and fifty yards against Pittsburgh.
50:58
Speaker 1: Well, so I would like to think the paid adjust
51:00
Speaker 1: after the Bills run the same play five or six
51:03
Speaker 1: times in a row.
51:04
Speaker 2: I would like to think so too. But you know,
51:07
Speaker 2: run game, it's mentality, and at some point, like you
51:11
Speaker 2: just aret getting dog walked in the run game and there's.
51:13
Speaker 1: Just no they're gonna need to be better.
51:14
Speaker 2: They're gonna need to be a lot better in the
51:16
Speaker 2: run game. I'm more concerned about it in a short
51:19
Speaker 2: term sense because of Baltimore and Buffalo coming right off
51:23
Speaker 2: the bye week and Milton Williams won't be back for
51:25
Speaker 2: those games, one hundred percent won't be back. There is
51:28
Speaker 2: a chance they're gonna get Tongo back, and I think
51:30
Speaker 2: maybe resting him in this game was part of that.
51:33
Speaker 2: You know, let's arrest him, give him the bye week
51:35
Speaker 2: as well, and then let's get him back for Buffalo
51:37
Speaker 2: and we're really gonna need him. But James Cook is
51:40
Speaker 2: gonna is going to torch this run defense if they
51:43
Speaker 2: play run defense like they have the last month of
51:45
Speaker 2: the season.
51:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, they're gonna need to be better, and that's
51:47
Speaker 1: you know, getting Tongo back would be huge. I thought
51:52
Speaker 1: Cory Durden played okay in this game, even with all
51:55
Speaker 1: their run games struggles, but you'renna need him to take
51:57
Speaker 1: another level. And then the linebackers too, and you know
52:00
Speaker 1: those guys coming downhill and trying to make contact earlier. Agree,
52:05
Speaker 1: they've got a lot. They got a lot to fix there.
52:07
Speaker 2: They need to run it. They need the linebackers to
52:09
Speaker 2: play better as well. I'm glad you brought that up
52:10
Speaker 2: because I think they're a little bit late to trigger
52:13
Speaker 2: to some of these combination blocks and like if you're
52:15
Speaker 2: getting double teamed in the inside, and that's what teams
52:18
Speaker 2: are doing because they don't have Milton Williams or Tonga.
52:20
Speaker 2: So like third in Farmer Gregory, uh, the farms, those
52:25
Speaker 2: guys are seeing a lot of double teams on the inside.
52:27
Speaker 2: They're just running like inside zone or duo with those
52:30
Speaker 2: combination blocks. And those linebackers like Ellis Gibbons plaint that
52:34
Speaker 2: you have to trigger downhill at the line of scrimmage
52:37
Speaker 2: to get the double team off the defender. Otherwise they're
52:40
Speaker 2: just gonna move the ball, you know, move them off
52:41
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage. Run defenses is one, you know,
52:45
Speaker 2: sticking into the similar you know, line of scrimmage thing.
52:48
Speaker 2: Their third and short offense is sneaky not good. Sneaky
52:53
Speaker 2: not good because they're so good in third and long
52:55
Speaker 2: that it's kind of washing it out so that their
52:58
Speaker 2: third down average over is pretty good. Yeah, so right now,
53:02
Speaker 2: and this is like so bizarre land, they're thirtieth in
53:06
Speaker 2: the league on third and one. They're fourth in the
53:10
Speaker 2: league on third and seven plus, so when they're actually
53:14
Speaker 2: almost just as good on third and long as they
53:17
Speaker 2: are on third and one, Like the percentage wise, they're
53:20
Speaker 2: almost just like that shouldn't happen, right, Like you should
53:23
Speaker 2: be much with.
53:25
Speaker 1: The goal line stuff, and just they're not really get
53:27
Speaker 1: that push in those short yard situation.
53:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. So in terms of full short yardage, which is
53:32
Speaker 2: considered like zero to three yards, they're twenty third in
53:35
Speaker 2: the league in conversion rate, But if you look specifically
53:38
Speaker 2: at just third in the yard or less, they're thirtieth
53:41
Speaker 2: in the league at fifty percent. So they all of
53:44
Speaker 2: a sudden, It's like when they're in third and nine,
53:46
Speaker 2: I have all the confidence in the world that they're
53:48
Speaker 2: going to somehow convert, but when they're in third and one,
53:50
Speaker 2: I have zero, Like in that.
53:52
Speaker 1: I mean it was encapsulated in that game they have
53:54
Speaker 1: the third and one. I think it was in the
53:55
Speaker 1: third quarter right where Remandre gets stuffed. Now, I don't
53:59
Speaker 1: think it should have been a fourth and five. I
54:01
Speaker 1: think he had ford momentum in the rest. That was
54:02
Speaker 1: a terrible spot, but it was. I think it was
54:05
Speaker 1: actually fourth and six, right, you know, third and one,
54:07
Speaker 1: big run and stuff, fourth and six, they're going for it.
54:10
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at the mats, so I don't know
54:12
Speaker 1: what the math says, but like in my mind, I'm like, yeah,
54:15
Speaker 1: that makes sense. And then I was like, that's absolutely
54:17
Speaker 1: crazy that that makes sense. Yeah, not, it's absolutely crazy
54:20
Speaker 1: that they're doing it because they're so good at it.
54:22
Speaker 1: And I'm like, and I remember thinking before the Blake
54:24
Speaker 1: digs is gonna sit down somewhere in the middlefield and
54:25
Speaker 1: Drake's gonna hit him. Like it's just it's wild.
54:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're they're top five in the league and
54:30
Speaker 2: fourth down conversion rate. I do kind of want to
54:32
Speaker 2: talk about that and in the second half of the
54:34
Speaker 2: show because I have some opinions on this whole fourth
54:36
Speaker 2: down thing, as you can imagine, and maybe we'll talk
54:39
Speaker 2: a little bit about going for two up nine or
54:41
Speaker 2: down nine, I should say as well. But yeah, the
54:44
Speaker 2: third down short offense, you know, third and short offense,
54:48
Speaker 2: excuse me. On the bats, like needs to be better
54:52
Speaker 2: than it has been. They were actually kind of good
54:54
Speaker 2: at it early, like they had that one third and
54:55
Speaker 2: one run early that game eight yards they ran out
54:59
Speaker 2: And I so should add to this, like they are
55:01
Speaker 2: kind of starting to try to empty the clip a
55:04
Speaker 2: little bit on some new things in this game. They
55:06
Speaker 2: ran a couple of plays out of an unbalanced line.
55:08
Speaker 2: They actually put Austin Hooper at left tackle and Vederian
55:12
Speaker 2: Lowe played the jumbo tight end next to Morgan Moses
55:15
Speaker 2: on the right side. A couple of times they try
55:17
Speaker 2: to play it was second down, but they try to
55:19
Speaker 2: play in wildcat with ramondre Stevenson as well, so they
55:23
Speaker 2: know and like, this isn't like they're just gonna, you know, say,
55:26
Speaker 2: oh well, like we're just not good at it. Like
55:27
Speaker 2: they're starting to try some new things. But I have
55:30
Speaker 2: some thoughts and when we get to the stuff that
55:32
Speaker 2: get to beat on, like maybe what might be coming
55:35
Speaker 2: that's missing the last thing on the bads before we
55:39
Speaker 2: get to that. Though, as good as the return units were,
55:43
Speaker 2: Borgals missed a forty five yarder. Yeah, I didn't think
55:46
Speaker 2: he kicked the ball particularly well in this game either,
55:49
Speaker 2: And Berenger like, I don't know what's going on with him.
55:52
Speaker 1: Yeah he hadn't know the shank, Yeah, twenty two yard miss.
55:56
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know either. Butody had another shack.
55:57
Speaker 1: But luckily for them, neither one had the worst kick
56:00
Speaker 1: of the night. I mean, that's an all timer. Yeah,
56:03
Speaker 1: that's I never seen anything that was the worst kick
56:06
Speaker 1: of the century.
56:07
Speaker 2: It wasn't it. Wasn't a kick because you can kick it.
56:10
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of attempt I've watched a lot
56:12
Speaker 1: of football in my life, I would like to think Evan,
56:15
Speaker 1: as you know, I've watched a lot of not top
56:17
Speaker 1: tier football in my life. So true, I've seen twice
56:22
Speaker 1: I've seen the kicker kick the ball into the long snapper. Yeah,
56:25
Speaker 1: just like line drive it right into his back or
56:28
Speaker 1: in the back of his head.
56:28
Speaker 2: I've seen that.
56:29
Speaker 1: That probably hurts, uh, yeah, probably.
56:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
56:32
Speaker 1: I've never seen the kick. That's like the worst whip
56:34
Speaker 1: I've never seen. And I've seen the kicker fall down,
56:36
Speaker 1: but when he falls down, he hits the ball. I've
56:39
Speaker 1: never seen a miss the ball. Let me ask you,
56:42
Speaker 1: there are two. There were two plays in that game
56:44
Speaker 1: that were just like excellent rewatchable replays. What's the more well,
56:48
Speaker 1: I know you because you don't care about special teams,
56:50
Speaker 1: what's the more rewatchable replay. I'll throw it out to
56:52
Speaker 1: the YouTube chat the young Wayku miss or the Christianellis
56:57
Speaker 1: hit on Jackson Dart.
57:00
Speaker 2: I love it.
57:02
Speaker 1: So I'm going I mean the hits out there and
57:04
Speaker 1: it's just like the way Dark kind of flails after
57:07
Speaker 1: he gets hit just makes it so good. But I mean,
57:10
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of people that watched that
57:12
Speaker 1: non kick over and over and over too.
57:14
Speaker 2: That was rough, and Dart's reaction was pretty good too,
57:17
Speaker 2: all right, And.
57:18
Speaker 1: I liked it just to circle back, Yeah, I liked
57:21
Speaker 1: the Christian Elis when he was asked about it after
57:22
Speaker 1: the game, was like, yeah, I get why the Giants
57:25
Speaker 1: came after me. Like, I get it. We do the same.
57:27
Speaker 1: For Drake, like good for him, laid out a big hit,
57:30
Speaker 1: clean hit, but didn't like, well it was a clean hit.
57:35
Speaker 1: I don't know whether to retali blah blah blah, like
57:37
Speaker 1: he had a quarterback like that the Patriots, right exactly.
57:41
Speaker 1: You got to know that's coming, and you know it's coming,
57:43
Speaker 1: and it still shouldn't stop you from delivering that hit.
57:46
Speaker 1: So I did credit to Christian Ellis. I thought it
57:48
Speaker 1: was awesome after the game that he was just like, yep,
57:50
Speaker 1: I hit their quarterback should have slid, didn't slide. I
57:53
Speaker 1: hit them. They came after me. That's football. We move on. Like,
57:57
Speaker 1: I loved that was a great answer. I love that
57:59
Speaker 1: answer him. I just wanted to get that in there.
58:01
Speaker 3: The YouTube is saying hit Yeah, it hits hit hit
58:03
Speaker 3: hit his entire like family generation into that hit.
58:07
Speaker 2: Yeah it was. I mean there's people and I don't
58:09
Speaker 2: mean this in like a negative way or a mean way,
58:12
Speaker 2: but like if you just started watching football in the
58:14
Speaker 2: last four or five years, that's like the biggest hit
58:16
Speaker 2: you've ever seen like that, oh yea, because they don't
58:18
Speaker 2: hit like that anymore. So, like you didn't see like
58:20
Speaker 2: Sean Taylor laying guys all so I will said Brandon Meryweather,
58:24
Speaker 2: like taking guys out over the middle. Like you didn't
58:26
Speaker 2: see that.
58:26
Speaker 1: There was a similar hit when the Patriots played the
58:29
Speaker 1: Bucks on Drake a few weeks ago. It was it
58:34
Speaker 1: wasn't dat exs but but like they also didn't flag
58:36
Speaker 1: that one, and they're starting to not flag. There was
58:38
Speaker 1: one on Allen two that probably should have been flagged
58:40
Speaker 1: against the Steelers. Uh he's slid instead of going out
58:43
Speaker 1: of pantters. But it's right on that border line there. Yeah,
58:45
Speaker 1: they're starting to not throw that flag as much, which
58:49
Speaker 1: look obviously player safety. You want to protect the players,
58:51
Speaker 1: but it had gone so far in the other direction
58:55
Speaker 1: where and this is not knocking Patrick Mahomes credit to
58:58
Speaker 1: him for knowing what he can get away with an
58:59
Speaker 1: otherquarterbacks are doing this too, but it was kind of
59:01
Speaker 1: them home special. They knew when they got near the
59:04
Speaker 1: sideline the defender was going to pull up because they
59:06
Speaker 1: didn't want the flag, so they tiptoe for that extra
59:08
Speaker 1: five yards right, right, So it had gotten too far.
59:12
Speaker 1: They're starting to not throw that flag. And now quarterbacks
59:14
Speaker 1: have to earn the corner if they want to turn
59:16
Speaker 1: the corner. I think that's a good thing. So I'm
59:19
Speaker 1: not say that's your runner, you're runner, right, But they hadn't.
59:22
Speaker 1: They hadn't called it that way, and now they're being
59:24
Speaker 1: consistent a little more about Hey, like Drake took that hit,
59:27
Speaker 1: Alan took that hit. Now Dart takes that hit. No flag. Yeah,
59:31
Speaker 1: you want to try to milk every yard you can get.
59:33
Speaker 1: You're gonna get hit sometimes that needs to be the
59:35
Speaker 1: cost for it. And look, if quarterbacks are like, fine,
59:38
Speaker 1: I'll take the hit, it's going to annoy a lot
59:40
Speaker 1: of coaches, but okay, that's your prerogative.
59:42
Speaker 2: Basically what Dart said after they right.
59:44
Speaker 1: And other quarterbacks may be like, you know, you know,
59:47
Speaker 1: look if it's the fourth quarter, if that's third down, yeah,
59:49
Speaker 1: you want to go for it that was gonna be
59:51
Speaker 1: third and one early in the game. I like that
59:54
Speaker 1: they're making quarterbacks think more a little more now if
59:56
Speaker 1: they want to turn that corner and get those extra
59:57
Speaker 1: couple of yards.
59:58
Speaker 2: I saw a little. I gained a little bit of
1:00:01
Speaker 2: a respect and all sincerity for THEO Johnson and the
1:00:04
Speaker 2: Giants that they reacted the way that they did.
1:00:06
Speaker 1: You know Johnson in that sense and just the way
1:00:09
Speaker 1: he played. He was probably the one player in the
1:00:10
Speaker 1: Giants that I came away with really impressed in this game.
1:00:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how you should react, just across sports real quickly,
1:00:17
Speaker 2: like I am. I am big on that in hockey
1:00:21
Speaker 2: as well. Like we watch a lot of hockey in
1:00:23
Speaker 2: our house, as you know, and when somebody comes after
1:00:27
Speaker 2: pasta and the Bruins don't react to it, it pisses
1:00:32
Speaker 2: me off. I'm like, no, you don't get to come
1:00:34
Speaker 2: out ahead, hunt the best player and not have repercussions
1:00:37
Speaker 2: for it, right, like you know, Caslick or somebody's got
1:00:40
Speaker 2: to fight the guy, right like that. That's just the
1:00:42
Speaker 2: way it is in hockey. That's the way it is
1:00:44
Speaker 2: in football. Like if Drake May got hit like that
1:00:46
Speaker 2: on the sideline. I would fully expect the entire sideline
1:00:49
Speaker 2: to want to kill the guy. That's how it goes, like,
1:00:52
Speaker 2: that's quarterback, that's how it goes. All right, onto the
1:00:57
Speaker 2: stuff that gets to beat. The one thing that got
1:01:00
Speaker 2: could get the Patriots beat the red zone offense. Man,
1:01:03
Speaker 2: we're in a slump. We're in a slump. So as
1:01:08
Speaker 2: of right now, you know, they weren't this bad at
1:01:11
Speaker 2: the beginning of the year in the red zone, so
1:01:12
Speaker 2: their red zone efficiency is like middle of the pack,
1:01:15
Speaker 2: it's not awful, but the last like you know, a
1:01:18
Speaker 2: month or so of the season, it's not been good.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: One in five in the red zone this week. And
1:01:26
Speaker 2: when I look at it, because you know a lot
1:01:27
Speaker 2: of people ask like, what's wrong with the red zone offense,
1:01:30
Speaker 2: I don't think you can just point to one thing.
1:01:33
Speaker 2: I think it's a whole thread. Like once you start
1:01:34
Speaker 2: pulling the thread, it's just there's a lot going on
1:01:36
Speaker 2: with the red zone offense. I think the three main
1:01:40
Speaker 2: buckets though that I can probably put into this that
1:01:44
Speaker 2: you know, I see one. They're thirtieth right now in
1:01:48
Speaker 2: red zone rushing success. They can't run the ball down there.
1:01:51
Speaker 2: And we talked about this last week. Running the ball
1:01:54
Speaker 2: in is the easiest way to score once you get
1:01:57
Speaker 2: inside the five yard line. There's just no there's no
1:02:01
Speaker 2: other way to put it like that is the easiest
1:02:02
Speaker 2: way to score down there. And they can't run the ball.
1:02:05
Speaker 2: They can't get the push on the line of scrimmage.
1:02:07
Speaker 2: They can't even get a yard on the goal line. Yeah,
1:02:10
Speaker 2: so they can't run the ball down there in the
1:02:12
Speaker 2: red zone.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: It's funny. They can get to the one. They'll run
1:02:14
Speaker 1: from the five or the four to the one and
1:02:16
Speaker 1: then they get tackled with the one and they can't
1:02:18
Speaker 1: get that next yard.
1:02:18
Speaker 2: So they can't run the football down there. Fixing that
1:02:22
Speaker 2: is easily number one on the list of ways to
1:02:24
Speaker 2: fix this problem, Like if you can start running the
1:02:27
Speaker 2: football effectively down there. And I have some thoughts on
1:02:29
Speaker 2: that in a second, but I just want to pull
1:02:31
Speaker 2: you know, what's going wrong first? That's number one. Number two.
1:02:37
Speaker 2: The one sort of like nitpick last frontier for Drake
1:02:41
Speaker 2: May in my opinion, is processing in the red zone,
1:02:43
Speaker 2: and most of it it's pre snap processing in the
1:02:46
Speaker 2: red zone. And I and I want to just say this,
1:02:49
Speaker 2: like he's a second year quarterback and we can't lose
1:02:52
Speaker 2: sight of that. Like he's a twenty three year old
1:02:54
Speaker 2: second year quarterback.
1:02:55
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this along those lines, would
1:02:57
Speaker 1: you say, is further ahead pre snap processing or post
1:02:59
Speaker 1: now processing?
1:03:00
Speaker 2: Post snap? He's really good at processing post name.
1:03:03
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I doesn't usually go the other way.
1:03:07
Speaker 2: I don't know. No, I would say it goes this
1:03:10
Speaker 2: way because pre snap it's hard, like it's hard to
1:03:14
Speaker 2: be able to look at the shell of the defense
1:03:16
Speaker 2: and anticipate what everybody's going to do on a play.
1:03:19
Speaker 2: And you might think you know, but are you one
1:03:21
Speaker 2: hundred percent? And I think what happens sometimes with Drake
1:03:25
Speaker 2: May and I don't know. This is just my opinion.
1:03:27
Speaker 2: I've never asked him. I don't know, but sometimes I
1:03:30
Speaker 2: think that he just kind of goes with I'm just
1:03:32
Speaker 2: going to run the play. Yeah, and I don't know
1:03:35
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, but I'm just going to run the play.
1:03:37
Speaker 2: So I'll give you one example. I put it in
1:03:39
Speaker 2: after further of you. It's kind of hard for me
1:03:41
Speaker 2: to describe it on the air if you want to
1:03:42
Speaker 2: see the visual, but it was the incomplete pass on
1:03:46
Speaker 2: third down to Stefon Diggs in the corner of the
1:03:48
Speaker 2: end zone and the Giants show cover zero pre snap,
1:03:52
Speaker 2: so they have man to man across the board cover zero,
1:03:55
Speaker 2: no safety. It was like the three yard line, so
1:03:58
Speaker 2: there's no point in putting the safety. And then they
1:04:01
Speaker 2: were gonna bring the house. They're gonna bring pressure, and
1:04:04
Speaker 2: Drake May calls Hunter Henry in to stay in to
1:04:07
Speaker 2: block on the play. So by default, when you know,
1:04:12
Speaker 2: as a quarterback, the tight end is blocking, his man
1:04:16
Speaker 2: defender now becomes a free player, right because he doesn't
1:04:19
Speaker 2: have to cover Hunter Henry because Hunter Henry's blocking. So
1:04:22
Speaker 2: there's one of two things that could happen. Either that
1:04:24
Speaker 2: guy's gonna blitz and he's gonna you know, green dog
1:04:27
Speaker 2: it and he's going to join the rush, or he's
1:04:30
Speaker 2: going to drop into like a robber zone. Right, But
1:04:33
Speaker 2: either way, that player is now he's public enemy number
1:04:37
Speaker 2: one now, right, Like he's your issue, he's your problem
1:04:39
Speaker 2: that you have to solve. So on the play, they
1:04:42
Speaker 2: have two routes to Drake's right in one route to
1:04:45
Speaker 2: Drake's left backside route by Kishawan Boody. So on the
1:04:48
Speaker 2: right hand side they just run like a classic like
1:04:51
Speaker 2: slant corner, you know, smash type of concept that you
1:04:54
Speaker 2: see in the red zone all the time, and Hunter
1:04:57
Speaker 2: Henry's guys on that side of the formation and he
1:04:59
Speaker 2: just drops right into the slant window. So now you
1:05:03
Speaker 2: have to throw the low percentage corner fade to the
1:05:05
Speaker 2: back of the end zone, just Fawn Diggs. So now
1:05:07
Speaker 2: you know, just from a numbers perspective, you have three
1:05:10
Speaker 2: Giants defenders covering two Patriots receivers on that side of
1:05:13
Speaker 2: the field. On the backside of the formation, you have
1:05:17
Speaker 2: Kaishan Boody who's just one on one with his man.
1:05:20
Speaker 2: So when you look at this shell pre snap, you know,
1:05:22
Speaker 2: I would like to see Drake may get to the
1:05:24
Speaker 2: backside of that because he's going to have the numbers
1:05:29
Speaker 2: even on the backside one on one, whereas on the
1:05:32
Speaker 2: other side that help defender that free defender that falls
1:05:36
Speaker 2: off Hunter Henry has now become a problem. So now
1:05:39
Speaker 2: instead of just being able to throw the slant to
1:05:41
Speaker 2: Matt Collins for an easy touchdown, now you have to
1:05:44
Speaker 2: go over the top and you have to throw the fade,
1:05:46
Speaker 2: which is obviously a low percentage throw. So those are
1:05:50
Speaker 2: the sort of the little things in terms of like
1:05:52
Speaker 2: his uh pre snap and kind of understanding whereas the
1:05:56
Speaker 2: easiest throw to make down here that I think that
1:05:59
Speaker 2: he could probably improve upon. That's not to say he's
1:06:02
Speaker 2: the only problem. That's not to say he's not great.
1:06:04
Speaker 2: He's not the MVP. I'm just telling you, like, these
1:06:07
Speaker 2: are little things that are happening under the hood with
1:06:09
Speaker 2: him on tape right that you know, he could improve
1:06:12
Speaker 2: on again as his second year guy, Like, he's not
1:06:15
Speaker 2: We're not ten years into this. He's not Tom Brady, right,
1:06:18
Speaker 2: So he's not going to come to the line of
1:06:20
Speaker 2: scrimmage and dominate pre snap at the line of scrimmage
1:06:23
Speaker 2: as a second year quarterback. Neither was Brady in two
1:06:25
Speaker 2: thousand and one. I promise you he was not, you know,
1:06:28
Speaker 2: being the chess master that he ended up being. So
1:06:31
Speaker 2: it's it's a process. It's a process. So there, and also,
1:06:35
Speaker 2: you know, processing down by the red zone is probably
1:06:38
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things to do because it happens
1:06:40
Speaker 2: so much faster right than it does in the middle
1:06:42
Speaker 2: of the field. So that is easily the hardest thing
1:06:46
Speaker 2: to do as a young quarterback in the NFL. Is
1:06:48
Speaker 2: there is red zone processing. So putting those two things together,
1:06:52
Speaker 2: Alex I can't run the ball. Drake May is probably
1:06:55
Speaker 2: final frontier, you know, his final hurdle as a quarterback
1:06:58
Speaker 2: is you know, and pre snap processing down in the
1:07:02
Speaker 2: red zone. So the one thing that I think that
1:07:06
Speaker 2: could kind of solve all of this, not solve all
1:07:09
Speaker 2: of it, but help.
1:07:10
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:07:11
Speaker 2: Oh and sorry, last thing. They don't have Tonga, so
1:07:15
Speaker 2: that to me is a big part of this too.
1:07:17
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to somebody about this the other day, you
1:07:18
Speaker 1: know who they I don't even know if miss is
1:07:20
Speaker 1: the right word, but like brock Lampy injury kind of
1:07:24
Speaker 1: looms a little bit and they need a fall back.
1:07:26
Speaker 1: I've seen people ask like do they need to fall
1:07:27
Speaker 1: back this offseason? It'll be interesting to see, Well here's
1:07:30
Speaker 1: the thing, do they need one or do they look
1:07:32
Speaker 1: at it and be like, well, we're gonna get Lampy
1:07:34
Speaker 1: back and he's the guy.
1:07:35
Speaker 2: Sure, So I.
1:07:36
Speaker 1: Mean just remember that we get to the although they
1:07:39
Speaker 1: need a full back, they still at brock Lampy, at
1:07:41
Speaker 1: least they for now they still do, but they they
1:07:44
Speaker 1: miss somebody in that role like Jack west Over trying
1:07:48
Speaker 1: to adjust. Yeah, he's just not that kind of player.
1:07:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, So hopefully when they get Tanga back. You know,
1:07:55
Speaker 2: that will also help because he's a battering ram and
1:07:58
Speaker 2: he can you know.
1:07:59
Speaker 1: He'll probably the closest they have.
1:08:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that those are the three buckets of things
1:08:05
Speaker 2: that I look at with the red zone offense is like,
1:08:07
Speaker 2: what is going wrong with the red zone offense? Now,
1:08:10
Speaker 2: let's fix it, you know, in terms of the fixes.
1:08:13
Speaker 2: One thing, just looking at their run game without getting
1:08:16
Speaker 2: into some of the bells and whistles that we can discuss.
1:08:20
Speaker 2: I don't think that this is an offensive line, that
1:08:23
Speaker 2: it is very good at vertical displacement, like running downhill.
1:08:28
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't mind them trying to run more outside
1:08:32
Speaker 2: and kind of using the offensive lines athleticism instead of
1:08:36
Speaker 2: its power in some of these situations. And Trayvon Henderson's
1:08:40
Speaker 2: athleticism too right in his speed to the edge. So
1:08:43
Speaker 2: I wouldn't hate like some tosses, some cracked tosses, you know,
1:08:48
Speaker 2: those misdirection flips like things like that. I think maybe
1:08:52
Speaker 2: is better for this group than other groups, because they're
1:08:55
Speaker 2: probably a little bit better moving laterally than they are
1:08:59
Speaker 2: moving vertical, clean up the field and trying to win
1:09:02
Speaker 2: with power the other elements. You know, I do think
1:09:06
Speaker 2: there could be a little bit more window dressing down there.
1:09:09
Speaker 2: You know, the Chiefs and other teams like that are
1:09:11
Speaker 2: really good at using like those return motions where the
1:09:14
Speaker 2: guy comes in and he goes back out and you
1:09:16
Speaker 2: have to pass it and figure it all out defensively,
1:09:19
Speaker 2: Like they could try to go smoking mirrors yea down
1:09:22
Speaker 2: there and just dress everything up with window dressing and
1:09:25
Speaker 2: just try to confuse the crap out of the defense.
1:09:28
Speaker 2: But the last thing that I think is coming I
1:09:31
Speaker 2: do when the games get higher stakes, they're not really
1:09:36
Speaker 2: running Drake down in the red zone yet, and they're
1:09:39
Speaker 2: not really using his mobility to leverage it against the defense.
1:09:43
Speaker 2: Like every once in a while they'll run his zone
1:09:45
Speaker 2: read just to have him hold the backside, but it's
1:09:47
Speaker 2: not really he's not really keeping it yet, right, So
1:09:52
Speaker 2: is that the last element? You know? More you know,
1:09:55
Speaker 2: zone read, more rpo, and when it comes playoff and
1:10:00
Speaker 2: you're in the playoff game and you're in the fourth
1:10:02
Speaker 2: quarter and you're at the two yard line and you
1:10:03
Speaker 2: need a touchdown, you know, then you start to unlock,
1:10:07
Speaker 2: like letting Drake run.
1:10:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've said they'll do it to win games.
1:10:14
Speaker 1: They didn't they they tried one I think against Cincinnati
1:10:17
Speaker 1: or was it a busted play. There's one that looked
1:10:19
Speaker 1: like a designed run, but it might have been like
1:10:20
Speaker 1: for a late flip. I've said this before. I think
1:10:25
Speaker 1: that you'd rather run him not enough than too much.
1:10:28
Speaker 1: You'd rather err on the side of caution. But I
1:10:30
Speaker 1: don't think that number needs to be zero. And if
1:10:32
Speaker 1: it's just in the red zone, so be it. They
1:10:35
Speaker 1: had one where they spread out, they went five wide,
1:10:39
Speaker 1: and the Giants were so last week they tried to
1:10:43
Speaker 1: run the ball ton in the red zone. This week.
1:10:46
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was being discouraged about the
1:10:47
Speaker 1: run game whatever personnel. There was more like a run
1:10:51
Speaker 1: pass split when they got close to the goal line,
1:10:54
Speaker 1: and I think the Giants were sitting on that. There
1:10:56
Speaker 1: was one where they came out five wide and the
1:10:59
Speaker 1: Giants to spread it out and I was like, oh,
1:11:01
Speaker 1: QB draw, here you go like that and then they
1:11:04
Speaker 1: motioned remandering and I think that was the one where
1:11:06
Speaker 1: they end up throwing it tim in the flat for
1:11:08
Speaker 1: no gain. I think it was from like the three
1:11:09
Speaker 1: yard line. Yeah, Like, even just something as simple as that,
1:11:12
Speaker 1: you don't need to do it a ton, but maybe
1:11:14
Speaker 1: when you get to like third and goal from the one,
1:11:15
Speaker 1: and you've exhausted everything else, like they should try to
1:11:18
Speaker 1: mix it in.
1:11:18
Speaker 2: I have been waiting all season because they ran it
1:11:21
Speaker 2: and look, he's a different kind of athlete, but they
1:11:23
Speaker 2: ranted a bunch with Cam. I've been waiting all season
1:11:27
Speaker 2: for them to motion the running back and to create
1:11:30
Speaker 2: empty and then to run QB power downhill at the
1:11:33
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. I've been waiting all year to see
1:11:36
Speaker 2: them do that. Now, Drake May is not two hundred
1:11:38
Speaker 2: and forty five pounds like Cam Newton was, right, so
1:11:41
Speaker 2: running him inside might not be something that you want
1:11:45
Speaker 2: to do on a regular basis because he's not built
1:11:46
Speaker 2: like that. But if you get the defense off guard,
1:11:50
Speaker 2: like he's gonna just waltz in, right. Yeah.
1:11:52
Speaker 1: They it feels like they've more than set up the draw,
1:11:55
Speaker 1: the shotgun draw.
1:11:56
Speaker 2: And maybe that's something that they're trying to put on tape,
1:11:58
Speaker 2: is the setup. And then you know when they play
1:12:01
Speaker 2: Buffalo and they can win the division in week fifteen
1:12:04
Speaker 2: by beating Buffalo and it's the fourth quarter and it's
1:12:07
Speaker 2: a tie game and you're inside the.
1:12:08
Speaker 1: Five right now, you pull it out. Yeah, I think
1:12:11
Speaker 1: that that's possible.
1:12:12
Speaker 2: But adding Drake May's mobility into their low red zone
1:12:17
Speaker 2: and goal line package I think would And I'm not
1:12:20
Speaker 2: talking about sneaks. I'm talking about like design quarterback runs
1:12:23
Speaker 2: that I think it would go a really long way
1:12:26
Speaker 2: to fixing this thing. So they have some The good
1:12:28
Speaker 2: news about the red zone offense, Alex is that they
1:12:31
Speaker 2: have some options, Like they have some things that they
1:12:33
Speaker 2: still could do that they haven't done yet that I
1:12:35
Speaker 2: think could help. And so that's always good. Like when
1:12:38
Speaker 2: you use exhaust all options and you still can't score
1:12:40
Speaker 2: down there, that's that's when all weary.
1:12:42
Speaker 1: Hat and T shirt game division rival coming up off
1:12:45
Speaker 1: the buy. Next week is the week to me you
1:12:48
Speaker 1: start breaking some of that stuff out.
1:12:50
Speaker 2: All right, we got to pay the bills. We'll be
1:12:52
Speaker 2: right back after the break and we'll open up the
1:12:54
Speaker 2: calls and the emails.
1:12:56
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Speaker 1: Can catch twenty two cut up keeps cups cuck catch
1:15:03
Speaker 1: twenty keeps cups chuck catch.
1:15:09
Speaker 2: I think I said football season like firing up the
1:15:11
Speaker 2: girl in the backyard and having a cookout. I mean,
1:15:13
Speaker 2: it might be a little bit cold up here to
1:15:15
Speaker 2: do that, but if you have the weather in your favor,
1:15:17
Speaker 2: then I love a great cookout. Uh. And the best
1:15:20
Speaker 2: cookouts have the best looking lins lons that are cut
1:15:22
Speaker 2: with an Aaron's mower. Aarons the official lot more of
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Speaker 2: the New England Patriots is proud to help Patriots fans
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Speaker 2: get back to football. Visit www dot Aarons dot com
1:15:32
Speaker 2: to find your errands. All right, let's get to these calls.
1:15:35
Speaker 2: I know you guys have all been waiting for a while.
1:15:38
Speaker 2: Jared is in New Jersey. What's up, Jared?
1:15:41
Speaker 4: Hey, what's up?
1:15:42
Speaker 2: Guys? How we doing?
1:15:44
Speaker 4: Just got a good just got a couple of things here.
1:15:46
Speaker 4: Just want to shout out to two guys that I
1:15:48
Speaker 4: noticed just.
1:15:49
Speaker 8: Doing it weekend week out.
1:15:51
Speaker 7: Christian Barmore. He's just an amazing player. He's a true
1:15:54
Speaker 7: football player.
1:15:55
Speaker 8: Matt Collins. Also this guy, you thrown the ball, he
1:15:58
Speaker 8: catches it.
1:15:59
Speaker 7: You ask him to do something, he'll do it.
1:16:01
Speaker 2: I just love him.
1:16:03
Speaker 4: Two guys that I just think are great for this team.
1:16:06
Speaker 6: My last thing, it's a.
1:16:07
Speaker 2: Free agency question.
1:16:08
Speaker 6: Might not be able to get to it.
1:16:10
Speaker 8: But zach Ertz, this guy's killing it on the Commanders.
1:16:14
Speaker 1: Daniels and Mariota love him.
1:16:15
Speaker 8: Do you see him as a fit maybe next year, maybe.
1:16:18
Speaker 7: Coming in a free agency.
1:16:21
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's basically it.
1:16:22
Speaker 2: Thank you, guys, he said zach Ertz. Yeah, yeah, so
1:16:27
Speaker 2: zach Ertz is interesting. That guy's like the guy that
1:16:31
Speaker 2: he's agent like.
1:16:32
Speaker 1: Fine Wise is another one of these ageless players.
1:16:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know if he's a fit, you know, Like,
1:16:36
Speaker 2: I don't mean that because I don't like him as
1:16:38
Speaker 2: a player. I just they have Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper.
1:16:41
Speaker 2: I think they kind of need to move in the
1:16:42
Speaker 2: other direction at tight end, you know, would just get
1:16:44
Speaker 2: younger at the position and not get older. Yeah, Barmore
1:16:48
Speaker 2: is a good shout out. Like Barmore is now the
1:16:51
Speaker 2: guy on that defensive line. He's seeing all sorts of
1:16:54
Speaker 2: double teams. He's still making plays. I thought he was
1:16:56
Speaker 2: really really good in this game for the most part.
1:17:00
Speaker 2: Couple of double teams, like everybody that he got pushed
1:17:02
Speaker 2: around on a little bit, but had some really high
1:17:04
Speaker 2: level reps, even reps that like led to plays for
1:17:07
Speaker 2: other guys that were He's plugging gaps and you know,
1:17:10
Speaker 2: moving guys and then allowing his teammates to finish up
1:17:13
Speaker 2: the play. So yeah, Barmore is he's doing his best
1:17:17
Speaker 2: without his without his wingman there. You know, it's it's
1:17:20
Speaker 2: hard without Melon Williams. He's doing his best, all right.
1:17:23
Speaker 2: Randy is in Providence. What's up? Randy?
1:17:29
Speaker 4: Up?
1:17:32
Speaker 2: All right? Call back, Randy. You were on hold for
1:17:34
Speaker 2: a while. If you're still there, Patty, what's up? Patty,
1:17:38
Speaker 2: how are we doing?
1:17:40
Speaker 1: What's up?
1:17:41
Speaker 3: Guys?
1:17:42
Speaker 7: They So, I just wanted to kind of piggyback on
1:17:47
Speaker 7: one thing that Alex said, but before I do that,
1:17:49
Speaker 7: this team kind of reminds me of a couple of
1:17:52
Speaker 7: Patriots teams from the past. One of them is the
1:17:55
Speaker 7: ninety four Patriots team, which I didn't get to watch
1:17:57
Speaker 7: a lot of because that was in Marine Corps boot
1:18:01
Speaker 7: camp and sy subsequently. But that team had a you know,
1:18:06
Speaker 7: second year Drew Bledsoe, who kind of went off, but
1:18:08
Speaker 7: it also had a team they signed Mary and Butts
1:18:11
Speaker 7: to come in here and be kind of dead that
1:18:13
Speaker 7: sledgehammer running back and just never lived up to fruition.
1:18:17
Speaker 7: And the three team, which just kept finding ways to
1:18:21
Speaker 7: win no matter what I mean they had. They had
1:18:23
Speaker 7: a few ugly games. They want to shootouts, they want
1:18:26
Speaker 7: to blowouts. Kind of reminds me a little bit of
1:18:29
Speaker 7: this team. But Alex, what you said earlier about consistency, Yeah,
1:18:34
Speaker 7: I said, just a couple of weeks ago, like there's
1:18:37
Speaker 7: a few teams in the league. Actually there's really only
1:18:40
Speaker 7: two that just weekend week out just find ways to win.
1:18:44
Speaker 7: It's it's Austin, the Broncos and Evan, I know, I
1:18:47
Speaker 7: know you're not scared about going into Denver, but uh,
1:18:51
Speaker 7: kind of give props to my man Speed. It's just
1:18:53
Speaker 7: it's one of those places like Miami. It's a house
1:18:56
Speaker 7: of horrors. Even when we had Brady, even when we
1:18:59
Speaker 7: had Blood, so we just we couldn't Patty oh All
1:19:07
Speaker 7: one was his last year.
1:19:08
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know if he's going to be
1:19:11
Speaker 2: suiting up for the Patriots in the playoffs.
1:19:14
Speaker 7: Huh okay, but a little fun fact, a little fun fact,
1:19:17
Speaker 7: and then they've never won a playoff game in Denver ever. Yeah,
1:19:22
Speaker 7: and I know, like, actually the worm has to turn
1:19:25
Speaker 7: and it has to change if we get to play
1:19:28
Speaker 7: them this year in Denver. You know, I'm I'm hoping
1:19:32
Speaker 7: that they take it, and I think this team will
1:19:34
Speaker 7: find a way to win if that happens. So even
1:19:37
Speaker 7: though I'm giving props to my man Speed, I'm I'm
1:19:39
Speaker 7: kind of in your camp too. I'm not at this
1:19:42
Speaker 7: point right now, at eleven and two, I'm I'm really
1:19:44
Speaker 7: not afraid to play any team. And that's all I got, guys.
1:19:46
Speaker 2: Thanks. I don't want to fully do the whole Denver
1:19:50
Speaker 2: thing again, but like I think the problem that I
1:19:52
Speaker 2: have with the whole, like it's like a house of horrors.
1:19:56
Speaker 2: Thing is like first of all playoff games in Denver.
1:20:01
Speaker 2: So the AFC title game against Peyton that was what
1:20:05
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen or fifteen oh fifteen? Yeah, they played them
1:20:09
Speaker 2: twice though, didn't they. Yeah?
1:20:10
Speaker 1: I think one might have been divisional. No, they're both.
1:20:13
Speaker 2: Change and they lost both of them. Yeah, so that's
1:20:15
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen and twenty thirteen, I want to say, and
1:20:18
Speaker 2: then uh, the Jake Plumber the game, right, Yeah, that's
1:20:24
Speaker 2: two thousand and five, right, so first Brady's first playoff loss.
1:20:29
Speaker 2: So we're just going off of the like that's we're
1:20:32
Speaker 2: talking about a three game sample size. I just and
1:20:36
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this whole thing.
1:20:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, altitude is something that doesn't mean the Patriots can't win,
1:20:40
Speaker 1: but the altitude is something.
1:20:41
Speaker 2: Okay. The second thing that I would just say about
1:20:43
Speaker 2: the whole, the whole Denver thing, you know, one of
1:20:46
Speaker 2: that thing is that it's a tiny, little sample size, right,
1:20:50
Speaker 2: the little The other thing is is like we just
1:20:52
Speaker 2: named the three games. It was twenty fifteen to twenty thirteen,
1:20:56
Speaker 2: two thousand and five. I believe it was might have
1:20:59
Speaker 2: been No. Six technically, but oh five, Yeah, that was ten, twelve,
1:21:06
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. So what relevancy does the fact that
1:21:11
Speaker 2: Tom Brady lost his first playoff game to Jake Plumber
1:21:14
Speaker 2: on a stupid Saturday night where Ben Watson clearly uh
1:21:17
Speaker 2: you know, got the ball out of champallis like, what
1:21:20
Speaker 2: relevancy does that have to this point?
1:21:22
Speaker 1: Relevancy there? I think it's just people trying to prove
1:21:24
Speaker 1: the point that, hey, going to Denver is never an
1:21:28
Speaker 1: easy task. That's just the reality of it. It's one
1:21:31
Speaker 1: of the better between the elevation, which is a thing,
1:21:33
Speaker 1: and also credit to that crowd they show up. It
1:21:36
Speaker 1: is one of the tougher, right and then you know
1:21:39
Speaker 1: it's gonna be cold, it's gonna be nasty. Yet it
1:21:41
Speaker 1: is one of the tougher visits in the NFL. I
1:21:45
Speaker 1: think that doesn't mean they can't go and win there,
1:21:47
Speaker 1: but you could, like so the problem with that we
1:21:49
Speaker 1: talked about a couple of weeks ago. Would you rather
1:21:51
Speaker 1: go to Denver or Indy? Like Indy such an easier.
1:21:54
Speaker 2: Yes, but the problem the problem with that, that thing,
1:21:57
Speaker 2: yeah is like the like than like anecdotally listening to
1:22:01
Speaker 2: players talk about playing in Denver. Yeah, in terms of
1:22:06
Speaker 2: like Denver's record at home over the last really going
1:22:11
Speaker 2: all the way back to John Elway, Denver has been
1:22:13
Speaker 2: one of the better teams in the league. So obviously
1:22:16
Speaker 2: their record is better at home than most of the
1:22:18
Speaker 2: teams in the NFL. Just like if you looked at
1:22:20
Speaker 2: the Patriots record, okay at home over the last twenty
1:22:23
Speaker 2: five years, it's gonna be really really good. And I
1:22:25
Speaker 2: don't know if this is some great home field advantage
1:22:30
Speaker 2: or if they just had Tom Brady for twenty years
1:22:32
Speaker 2: and they just were great and so he went at
1:22:35
Speaker 2: home a lot.
1:22:35
Speaker 1: But you look at I have to find the exact number.
1:22:38
Speaker 1: I forget, but like I think they want their the
1:22:40
Speaker 1: difference between their home winning percentage and road winning percentage
1:22:44
Speaker 1: is bigger than average.
1:22:46
Speaker 2: I just feel like this is like.
1:22:53
Speaker 1: I looked this up that I text you this last night.
1:22:55
Speaker 1: They're like, I think, ninth in home wins.
1:22:58
Speaker 2: So there's like eight teams that are better at home
1:23:00
Speaker 2: than Denver, and we're acting like it's.
1:23:02
Speaker 1: Just like, well, players say it's hard to play there,
1:23:04
Speaker 1: and that's an anecdote. It doesn't matter, Like why why
1:23:06
Speaker 1: can't we listen to the players who've played there. They have,
1:23:08
Speaker 1: we haven't.
1:23:09
Speaker 2: I didn't say we can't and.
1:23:12
Speaker 1: They've You kind of just dismissed it.
1:23:14
Speaker 2: No, I didn't just say ye anecdotally other than you,
1:23:17
Speaker 2: you know how I feel about it. It's an element.
1:23:20
Speaker 2: It's managing an element, just like managing, but it's a
1:23:23
Speaker 2: snowstorm or managing a rainstorm, or managin a crazy winded
1:23:27
Speaker 2: but it's a tougher it's an element.
1:23:29
Speaker 1: It's a tougher element to manage than many of the
1:23:32
Speaker 1: other places you'd end up going.
1:23:35
Speaker 2: Sure for maybe for the Patriots just because they they
1:23:37
Speaker 2: don't play in elevation here, but like when they're when
1:23:42
Speaker 2: the Chargers come here and they lose in the playoffs
1:23:44
Speaker 2: because it's twenty five degrees, what do we say about
1:23:46
Speaker 2: the Chargers?
1:23:47
Speaker 1: We say, what a bunch of horses, right, because they
1:23:49
Speaker 1: can't it's an element that they don't.
1:23:52
Speaker 2: We go and they and they and they lose. And
1:23:54
Speaker 2: in Denver the.
1:23:54
Speaker 1: Chargers also come here and are non competitive.
1:23:56
Speaker 2: Okay, but they don't just lose. If we go to
1:23:59
Speaker 2: Denver and they say.
1:24:00
Speaker 1: They should not get their doors blown off by the
1:24:02
Speaker 1: Broncos because.
1:24:03
Speaker 2: Of the action happen, right, So then what are we
1:24:05
Speaker 2: talking about. The better team on the TA will win.
1:24:07
Speaker 1: Its just more to manage. It's more to it, just
1:24:10
Speaker 1: the better team. Yeah, but if they're close, it can
1:24:13
Speaker 1: be a deciding factor.
1:24:15
Speaker 2: I guess it can be, as we're not going to agree.
1:24:18
Speaker 1: I just like nobody is saying, Okay, it's place to
1:24:22
Speaker 1: play in the league.
1:24:24
Speaker 2: You're gonna lose in Denver. You're acting terrified of the Broncos.
1:24:27
Speaker 2: All right, I lay down my stored Okay, yeah, it's
1:24:31
Speaker 2: a horrible, horrible, horrible outcome of the Patriots have to
1:24:34
Speaker 2: get you're acting.
1:24:35
Speaker 1: I don't want anything to do with People are saying, well, okay,
1:24:38
Speaker 1: it's at altitude, so they're gonna lose by Forting. We
1:24:41
Speaker 1: all have to be okay with that. That's not how
1:24:42
Speaker 1: anybody's looking at it. It's another variable. It's another factor
1:24:46
Speaker 1: in the game you have to deal with. You want
1:24:47
Speaker 1: to you want them.
1:24:49
Speaker 2: It's not the most important one.
1:24:51
Speaker 1: What's the fact. But if it is a close game,
1:24:53
Speaker 1: those little things start to matter.
1:24:58
Speaker 2: Let's hope that the Patriot just get the number one seed.
1:25:01
Speaker 2: So I don't need to argue with people about this
1:25:03
Speaker 2: for three weeks and you know, leading up to a
1:25:05
Speaker 2: potential AFC Championship game in Denver because I'm tired a
1:25:08
Speaker 2: diary of argument.
1:25:10
Speaker 1: Watch what's gonna happen.
1:25:11
Speaker 2: But it's just we can agree to disagree. Hang on,
1:25:14
Speaker 2: so the Broncos, I we we can agree to disagree.
1:25:18
Speaker 2: We're not gonna We're not going to Neither one of
1:25:22
Speaker 2: us is gonna budge on this one. Although I am
1:25:24
Speaker 2: laying down my sword and I am saying that I
1:25:27
Speaker 2: don't want to play the Broncos. Everybody else is right
1:25:29
Speaker 2: and I'm wrong and I don't want to play the Broncos.
1:25:31
Speaker 1: Here here evan wait to be the bigger man. Yeah,
1:25:32
Speaker 1: all right, so I'm done here. You said, oh this
1:25:35
Speaker 1: is going nineteen sixty? Give me, give me what do
1:25:38
Speaker 1: we want to say? Nineteen on the ground it's done eighty? No,
1:25:41
Speaker 1: I'm not You all are right, I'm not battling. Well, no,
1:25:45
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to actually give you the tangible.
1:25:47
Speaker 1: I just got to put the years in, but I'm
1:25:48
Speaker 1: going to give you the actual tangible, Like how much
1:25:51
Speaker 1: better are they at home than on the road? Since
1:25:53
Speaker 1: two thousand? At home, the Broncos are one thirty two
1:25:59
Speaker 1: and seventy six on the road, they are ninety five
1:26:03
Speaker 1: and one oh three. That's actually a pretty significant swing.
1:26:09
Speaker 1: I just so they're I think that what I think
1:26:12
Speaker 1: this is what it all stems from. And I and
1:26:16
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to talk about something this stuff.
1:26:18
Speaker 1: And they're sixty games over five hundred at home since
1:26:21
Speaker 1: two thousand. Yeah, if I did this correctly on Pro
1:26:23
Speaker 1: Football Reference, sixty games over five hundred at home, twenty
1:26:26
Speaker 1: games under five hundred on the road, you're talking about
1:26:28
Speaker 1: an eighty games swing that is relevant, that statistically relevant. Okay,
1:26:32
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it's to be all end all, it's
1:26:33
Speaker 1: statistically right.
1:26:34
Speaker 2: I don't I still don't know if this is correlation
1:26:38
Speaker 2: or causation. And I think that's what it comes back
1:26:40
Speaker 2: to to me. I don't know if this is just
1:26:42
Speaker 2: because the Broncos have been pretty good for a while.
1:26:44
Speaker 1: But if they're pretty good teams win on the road too,
1:26:46
Speaker 1: good teams go like yeah they were, their record at
1:26:49
Speaker 1: home is going to be better than on the road.
1:26:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:26:52
Speaker 1: Again, you're talking about like an eighty game swing from
1:26:54
Speaker 1: when when? What? Since two thousand? Okay, you want me
1:26:58
Speaker 1: to go further back and include out way?
1:27:00
Speaker 2: Oh, I just I just don't know. I don't know.
1:27:02
Speaker 2: I I give up. I give up. You all are right,
1:27:05
Speaker 2: like it's a terrible It doesn't mean they're going to
1:27:07
Speaker 2: lose the game.
1:27:08
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean they're going to lose the game. But
1:27:09
Speaker 1: it's ideally not something you have to deal with. Going
1:27:12
Speaker 1: back to nineteen eighty two fifty and one fifteen at home,
1:27:16
Speaker 1: one's sixty four one ninety eight and one on the road,
1:27:19
Speaker 1: I just gross.
1:27:20
Speaker 2: A tie again. I just don't know. I don't know
1:27:23
Speaker 2: if where, I don't know if this is actually like, oh,
1:27:27
Speaker 2: it's a true you know this home field advantage thing
1:27:30
Speaker 2: that you all are telling me is terrible for the Patriots,
1:27:33
Speaker 2: or if the Broncos have just had John Elway, they've
1:27:36
Speaker 2: had Peyton Manning, they have a good team.
1:27:38
Speaker 1: Now I haven't they won on the road at this
1:27:40
Speaker 1: close to the same clip.
1:27:42
Speaker 2: You're just looking up what Denver is on the alone, like,
1:27:45
Speaker 2: where does that rank it? Where is their road record
1:27:48
Speaker 2: ranking relative to the rest of the league.
1:27:50
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll tell you hang on their road record relative
1:27:52
Speaker 1: to the rest of the league.
1:27:53
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to nineteen eighty for like ten minutes.
1:27:55
Speaker 1: Well, no, we're having the conversation. Let's have the conversations.
1:27:57
Speaker 1: They are do you eleventh?
1:28:01
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:28:01
Speaker 1: Exactly, so they're middle of the pack on the road,
1:28:04
Speaker 1: and then at home they are ninth. Well, no, this
1:28:07
Speaker 1: is since nineteen eighty. Last last night, I used a
1:28:10
Speaker 1: different barometer, but you wont meet include John that way.
1:28:13
Speaker 1: They are first at home since nineteen eighty. No team
1:28:15
Speaker 1: has won more games at homes since nineteen eighty than
1:28:17
Speaker 1: the Denver Broncos. I okay, and they were eleventh of
1:28:21
Speaker 1: the road.
1:28:21
Speaker 2: I give up, I surrender.
1:28:23
Speaker 1: How many teams do you think have a winning record
1:28:25
Speaker 1: on the road since nineteen eighty?
1:28:26
Speaker 2: I don't know.
1:28:27
Speaker 4: Four?
1:28:28
Speaker 1: Any guesses? No, come on, play the game, No game,
1:28:32
Speaker 1: I play the game.
1:28:33
Speaker 2: I'm not a sore loser. I just have been so
1:28:36
Speaker 2: over this.
1:28:36
Speaker 1: One of the four teams that have a winning record
1:28:38
Speaker 1: on the road since nineteen season. If you want to
1:28:41
Speaker 1: include the playoffs here, the Patriots, yeah, the Steelers, yeah,
1:28:44
Speaker 1: the Eagles, and the Niners.
1:28:45
Speaker 2: There you go.
1:28:47
Speaker 1: Okay, Patriots are three games away from having the best
1:28:50
Speaker 1: road record in the NFL since nineteen eighty.
1:28:52
Speaker 2: Since nineteen eighty, with two Hall of Fame quarterbacks, the
1:28:55
Speaker 2: Broncos have been really good at home?
1:28:58
Speaker 1: Is that that's the take the split between the home
1:29:01
Speaker 1: and road. You never gonna get it.
1:29:03
Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
1:29:04
Speaker 4: I'm not.
1:29:05
Speaker 2: No, I I told you I lay down my sword.
1:29:08
Speaker 2: It's over. You are right. I am wrong, all right.
1:29:11
Speaker 2: Denver is a tough place to play. I don't want
1:29:12
Speaker 2: to play there. There we go.
1:29:15
Speaker 1: Well, it's you would rather play other places than there?
1:29:18
Speaker 1: Is the discussion. I'd rather yes, play there than not
1:29:21
Speaker 1: be in it. But yeah, I'd rather go to Indy
1:29:24
Speaker 1: rather go I would rather go to Indy too, probably
1:29:26
Speaker 1: rather go to Baltimore. See how the Baltimore's tough? Right,
1:29:30
Speaker 1: This is the difference between me and and I think
1:29:32
Speaker 1: everybody else. I just look at the teams. I don't
1:29:35
Speaker 1: know realistically where else they could go. It's really going
1:29:37
Speaker 1: to be here.
1:29:37
Speaker 2: I just look at the teams. I look at who
1:29:39
Speaker 2: are the best teams? And I don't want to play
1:29:41
Speaker 2: the best teams. That's fair. I don't look again, Oh
1:29:44
Speaker 2: at this stadium or that home field, like Arrowhead is
1:29:47
Speaker 2: an amazing home field, but the Pages aren't going to
1:29:50
Speaker 2: go there. But right, But I'm just saying, like I
1:29:52
Speaker 2: if the Chiefs.
1:29:53
Speaker 1: Were in it's close. That stuff can matter. Case in point,
1:29:58
Speaker 1: those as much as we love to laugh at them
1:30:00
Speaker 1: blowing doors against Peyton Manning's Colts and the other two thousands,
1:30:03
Speaker 1: like talent wise, those teams were close. You know what
1:30:06
Speaker 1: made a big difference the snow, in the cold, in
1:30:09
Speaker 1: the wind. When they would come here in January, paint
1:30:11
Speaker 1: couldn't play.
1:30:11
Speaker 2: This is but this is my whole point. You're making
1:30:14
Speaker 2: my whole point. The whole point is is that the
1:30:16
Speaker 2: altitude is an element just like weather. So as a
1:30:20
Speaker 2: mentally tough football team, which I like to think that
1:30:22
Speaker 2: they are because the head coach, Mike Rabel is one
1:30:25
Speaker 2: of the most mentally guys that'll ex handle it, I'm
1:30:27
Speaker 2: with you and I should be able to overcome it.
1:30:30
Speaker 2: If you are the better team.
1:30:31
Speaker 1: I trust them to have a plan to handle it.
1:30:32
Speaker 1: It's a little different than weather because you get like
1:30:34
Speaker 1: there's an actual biological.
1:30:36
Speaker 2: Well, okay, we'll leave on Friday.
1:30:39
Speaker 1: No, I trust it. They've had a plan for everything
1:30:41
Speaker 1: so far. Trust and have a plan for it. But
1:30:43
Speaker 1: some of you have to have a plan for.
1:30:44
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's an you know, I wanted to talk
1:30:48
Speaker 2: about this and sort of this kind of got me
1:30:51
Speaker 2: thinking about it. Two things that stood out to me
1:30:55
Speaker 2: from like those Thanksgiving games and some of the games
1:30:58
Speaker 2: that I've been able to watch this weekend. I wanted
1:31:03
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about the Detroit Lions because
1:31:05
Speaker 2: with the Patriots on a buy and so we can
1:31:07
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about the rest of the league.
1:31:09
Speaker 2: The Detroit Lions right now are this is our thing.
1:31:15
Speaker 2: This is why I want to talk about it. The
1:31:17
Speaker 2: Lions are going for it on fourth down at the
1:31:21
Speaker 2: same rate as they always have gone for it on
1:31:24
Speaker 2: fourth down. However, their fourth down conversion rate is dropping
1:31:29
Speaker 2: off a cliff. So this goes back to the whole like,
1:31:35
Speaker 2: you know, your whole thing is like they should adjust, right,
1:31:38
Speaker 2: like they should stop doing it. So on Thanksgiving against
1:31:42
Speaker 2: the Packers, they lost it to the Packers. The Lions
1:31:45
Speaker 2: went for it twice on fourth down in that game,
1:31:48
Speaker 2: and they're zero for two on fourth down over the
1:31:51
Speaker 2: last month of the season. The Lions are only converting
1:31:53
Speaker 2: like twenty five percent of their fourth downs, yet they're
1:31:56
Speaker 2: still going for it when the mass says go, they
1:31:58
Speaker 2: go yep. And the Patriots are also a team that
1:32:02
Speaker 2: has been following the analytics a lot in these types
1:32:06
Speaker 2: of decisions, but just looking at like their fourth down efficiency.
1:32:10
Speaker 2: You know, they're one of the best fourth down teams
1:32:13
Speaker 2: in the NFL. The Patriots right now are second in
1:32:16
Speaker 2: the league and fourth down conversion rate at seventy seven
1:32:20
Speaker 2: point eight percent pretty good. The Chiefs are number one
1:32:22
Speaker 2: at eighty. So the Patriots are second in the league.
1:32:25
Speaker 2: The Detroit Lions right now are eighteenth at fifty two percent.
1:32:29
Speaker 2: The Lions last year with Ben Johnson were fourth in
1:32:34
Speaker 2: the league. So, you know, this all kind of goes
1:32:36
Speaker 2: back to all things we've all We've talked about a
1:32:38
Speaker 2: million times. But Ben Johnson's doing great in Chicago. This
1:32:42
Speaker 2: Detroit team is not winning in those margins like they
1:32:46
Speaker 2: used to win when they had Ben Johnson as their coordinator.
1:32:51
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on this, because I feel like this is
1:32:52
Speaker 2: right in our wheelhouse, so that it.
1:32:55
Speaker 1: Goes back to something else I always say about this.
1:32:58
Speaker 1: The decision to go or not go is only as
1:33:03
Speaker 1: good as the how you feel about your play calls,
1:33:05
Speaker 1: only as good as the play you call. Yeah, right,
1:33:08
Speaker 1: if you are confident in the place you have, I'm
1:33:12
Speaker 1: find being a little more aggressive going for it. If
1:33:14
Speaker 1: you're to go back to the Bengals game, here's a
1:33:16
Speaker 1: great example that the second time they got stopped on
1:33:20
Speaker 1: the goal line, they kicked the field goal on fourth down.
1:33:23
Speaker 1: I think the math said go there, right, if I
1:33:25
Speaker 1: remember correctly, the Patriots the patrio, Yes, yeah, but okay,
1:33:30
Speaker 1: you can make it a six point game. You've been
1:33:33
Speaker 1: struggling in this spot. You've now had like eight snaps.
1:33:35
Speaker 1: I think it's actually like closer to ten snaps at
1:33:37
Speaker 1: that point on the goal line. That's not working. The
1:33:39
Speaker 1: play calls aren't working. You have to factor that in.
1:33:41
Speaker 1: And they kicked, and I like that they kicked that
1:33:43
Speaker 1: field goal, and kicking that field goal ended up making
1:33:45
Speaker 1: a big difference in that game. So to give give
1:33:49
Speaker 1: you your argument some credit here, it's almost like the
1:33:53
Speaker 1: quality of the play calls has dropped off since Ben
1:33:55
Speaker 1: Johnson left.
1:33:56
Speaker 2: That was exactly what I want.
1:33:58
Speaker 1: They haven't adjusted to it. So I stand by the
1:34:01
Speaker 1: decision to go is only as good as the play
1:34:04
Speaker 1: you called. There was one, oh, one of the Thanksgiving games,
1:34:07
Speaker 1: there's like a fourth down, it's like fourth and one.
1:34:10
Speaker 1: It was a long one and they lined up in
1:34:12
Speaker 1: shotgun and it was like they're not just gonna hand
1:34:14
Speaker 1: this hand this thing off up the middle because they've
1:34:17
Speaker 1: done it the play before, and they did it, and
1:34:19
Speaker 1: you're like, why even go if that's your play call.
1:34:21
Speaker 1: They just stopped that exact same play. You haven't had
1:34:23
Speaker 1: that push all night. And I think realistically, and I
1:34:26
Speaker 1: don't remember the exact moment of this, but like, realistically,
1:34:29
Speaker 1: in the flow of that game, it made sense to
1:34:30
Speaker 1: go there. But if that's what you're gonna call, man,
1:34:33
Speaker 1: just punt the ball. We just punt it. And I
1:34:35
Speaker 1: think the Lions maybe and Dan Campbell have to have
1:34:38
Speaker 1: kind of a moment of realization that we're not putting
1:34:41
Speaker 1: Pinay Seul in motion and having him flip the ball
1:34:43
Speaker 1: to the third string tight end anymore. Like the stuff
1:34:46
Speaker 1: we're calling isn't working. We can't be as aggressive because
1:34:49
Speaker 1: we don't have the ability to be as effective when
1:34:51
Speaker 1: we make these calls.
1:34:52
Speaker 2: So I'm in agree with you because this supports my
1:34:54
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson's good argument.
1:34:56
Speaker 1: So you never said that Ben Johnson wasn't a good
1:34:58
Speaker 1: play call.
1:34:59
Speaker 2: I never said that, even though it doesn't. No, I'm
1:35:01
Speaker 2: not saying that you said that. I was saying, you know,
1:35:03
Speaker 2: anything that's pro Ben Johnson is good with me. I
1:35:06
Speaker 2: would also just add, you know, with the Lions. One
1:35:09
Speaker 2: of the sneaky weird things that's happened in the league
1:35:13
Speaker 2: this year is Dan Campbell calling plays for the Lions offense.
1:35:17
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that Dan Campbell is like incapable
1:35:20
Speaker 2: of calling plays, Like I'm sure Dan Campbell knows a
1:35:23
Speaker 2: ton of football, and I'm sure his ex's knows mine
1:35:25
Speaker 2: is pretty good. But I watched, you know that game
1:35:29
Speaker 2: was it was against the Eagles a couple of weeks ago,
1:35:32
Speaker 2: and you have Dan Campbell trying to out smart, out
1:35:36
Speaker 2: wit Vic Fangio, and that could not have been a
1:35:39
Speaker 2: bigger mismatch, right, Like you have maybe the best defensive
1:35:43
Speaker 2: play caller in football against the guy that really shouldn't
1:35:46
Speaker 2: be calling plays and the Lions. And this was exactly
1:35:49
Speaker 2: what I was worried about with the Lions. So I'm
1:35:51
Speaker 2: kind of a three lapping here a little bit. The Lions,
1:35:55
Speaker 2: you know, have not replaced Ben Johnson, and now Dan
1:36:00
Speaker 2: Campbell is being thrust into a play calling role that's
1:36:03
Speaker 2: not a role he should have. Dan Campbell's a raw,
1:36:06
Speaker 2: raw guy. Dan Campbell's a leader. Dan Campbell's you know,
1:36:09
Speaker 2: biting knee caps like that's Dan Campbell him trying to
1:36:13
Speaker 2: get into the play sheet, and all that stuff is
1:36:15
Speaker 2: not is not it? And so he's not going anywhere obviously,
1:36:19
Speaker 2: and shouldn't. Their GM isn't going anywhere obviously he shouldn't.
1:36:23
Speaker 2: But they're going to hire an offensive coordinator at the
1:36:25
Speaker 2: end of the year, like they're going to hire a
1:36:27
Speaker 2: real offensive coordinator for twenty twenty six, no doubt about it.
1:36:30
Speaker 2: The other sort of thing, in terms of the math
1:36:32
Speaker 2: and all that stuff that's kicking around, I would say
1:36:37
Speaker 2: this is the one spot where I deviate from the nerds.
1:36:42
Speaker 2: I do not agree with the nerds on this. The
1:36:45
Speaker 2: going for two down nine points at the end of
1:36:48
Speaker 2: the game.
1:36:48
Speaker 1: See interesting. I actually don't hate that one. I disagree
1:36:51
Speaker 1: with it depends how much time's left. I disagree with it.
1:36:55
Speaker 1: And the main reason why.
1:36:57
Speaker 2: That I get the argument that you want to know
1:37:00
Speaker 2: what you need, and I like I when I say
1:37:03
Speaker 2: I get it, like I'm not dumb, I understand what
1:37:06
Speaker 2: you're trying to tell me. I'm just not buying what
1:37:09
Speaker 2: you're selling. So I still feel like making it an
1:37:13
Speaker 2: eight point game and then all you need defensively is
1:37:17
Speaker 2: one stop and then you go down, you score, you
1:37:19
Speaker 2: get the two point conversion you go into overtime. I
1:37:22
Speaker 2: still feel like that is the better strategy at the
1:37:24
Speaker 2: end of the game than trying to get it. And
1:37:27
Speaker 2: then most of the time it feels like teams fail
1:37:29
Speaker 2: and then they just go down nine points and then
1:37:31
Speaker 2: it's game over. Like the game's over because then you
1:37:34
Speaker 2: have to stop touchdown on side kick recovery, like you
1:37:39
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like there's just too many things
1:37:41
Speaker 2: that have to happen, but this is These are the
1:37:43
Speaker 2: two things right now that are really kind of taking
1:37:46
Speaker 2: over nerd analytics world. In football, doesn't make sense to
1:37:51
Speaker 2: go for two down nine and fourth down and how
1:37:54
Speaker 2: you treat fourth down? How do you feel about the
1:37:58
Speaker 2: going for two down nine?
1:37:59
Speaker 1: I think it has to do with how much times
1:38:02
Speaker 1: left on the clock, because agreed, I do think there's
1:38:06
Speaker 1: an element and I hear it. I get it. Well,
1:38:08
Speaker 1: you know what you need, you can manage the game.
1:38:10
Speaker 1: Do you need one possession? Do you need two possessions?
1:38:13
Speaker 1: The part of that conversation I've never heard anybody have is, well,
1:38:17
Speaker 1: now the defense also knows what you need, and they
1:38:20
Speaker 1: can call the game differently and they can maybe be
1:38:22
Speaker 1: a little more aggressive or conservative whatever the situation may be.
1:38:25
Speaker 1: And also again the play you called, do you feel
1:38:27
Speaker 1: good about your two point game? Do you feel like
1:38:29
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a good chance to get at things
1:38:30
Speaker 1: like that? I think there's more room for interpretation. If
1:38:37
Speaker 1: let's say there's like eight minutes left in the game
1:38:40
Speaker 1: right early fourth quarter, I don't hate it as much
1:38:43
Speaker 1: because you're probably gonna have time for that extra drive anyway,
1:38:46
Speaker 1: one way or the other. And okay, so you want
1:38:48
Speaker 1: to know if you need one or two. I think
1:38:49
Speaker 1: there's maybe more information there. If there's like four minutes
1:38:53
Speaker 1: left in the game, three to four minutes left and
1:38:56
Speaker 1: you need to stop, you're only gonna get one more drive.
1:38:58
Speaker 1: Make sure that drive is for the game. That's kind
1:39:01
Speaker 1: of where I'm at on it, like where in the
1:39:03
Speaker 1: game are we? And then also again it comes down
1:39:05
Speaker 1: to how good you are two points.
1:39:06
Speaker 2: I just think that what was the team that did
1:39:08
Speaker 2: it this last time? I'm biking this last time. To
1:39:12
Speaker 2: your point, there was not enough time in the game
1:39:14
Speaker 2: right to get multiple possessions I think it was a
1:39:16
Speaker 2: philly to get multiple possessions back. There wasn't enough time
1:39:19
Speaker 2: in the game.
1:39:20
Speaker 1: You know what you need, Okay, But if you don't
1:39:22
Speaker 1: get it, now, the game's over.
1:39:24
Speaker 2: It So as soon as they've went don't matter. As
1:39:27
Speaker 2: soon as they failed the two point converted, the game
1:39:29
Speaker 2: was over. You know what you need?
1:39:29
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, now you know you're gonna lose. Yeah, so
1:39:32
Speaker 1: you know again early fourth quarter, you can talk me
1:39:36
Speaker 1: into it. I think there's maybe some validity to that.
1:39:39
Speaker 1: Don't like dilute yourselves.
1:39:40
Speaker 2: You're thinking you could still get two possessions the traditional way,
1:39:44
Speaker 2: right with this and that or whatever.
1:39:46
Speaker 1: It's like, all right, we're probably gonna have the ball
1:39:48
Speaker 1: two more times, so because then maybe you know, okay,
1:39:51
Speaker 1: well we're gonna get the ball back down seven. We
1:39:53
Speaker 1: want to be a little more conservative on this drive.
1:39:55
Speaker 1: We want to run some clock. We don't want to
1:39:56
Speaker 1: give them too much time versus like, if you know
1:39:59
Speaker 1: you're gonna need to be in scramble mode one way
1:40:00
Speaker 1: or the other, make it a one score game.
1:40:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So a couple of things. Then we'll take
1:40:05
Speaker 2: your calls to wrap up the show. Just thoughts on
1:40:09
Speaker 2: the week fourteen Slate Patriots are on a buy. What
1:40:11
Speaker 2: are you going to do? Slate? What are you going
1:40:13
Speaker 2: to be watching? I don't believe that the Patriots can
1:40:16
Speaker 2: clinch this week. I don't think, which, by the way,
1:40:19
Speaker 2: is not quite so freaking weird, not quite there. They
1:40:22
Speaker 2: can have eleven wins and not clinch the playoffs. Ryan Garvin,
1:40:25
Speaker 2: who's my producer on Sunday Kickoff, look this up. You
1:40:27
Speaker 2: found one of the websites that describes it. Yeah, they
1:40:30
Speaker 2: or that lays out the scenarios.
1:40:32
Speaker 1: They described as a horrific set of tie breakers that
1:40:35
Speaker 1: would occur if the Patriots were to lose out that
1:40:37
Speaker 1: would not let them in the playoffs. So yeah, so
1:40:40
Speaker 1: it's obviously one more winning they're in. But the Patriots
1:40:43
Speaker 1: could at worst finish at eleven and six. And right
1:40:47
Speaker 1: now the Bills are the seven seed at eight and four,
1:40:50
Speaker 1: so they're only the only the teams in the playoffs.
1:40:54
Speaker 1: The worst case scenario for Houston would be six losses
1:40:57
Speaker 1: and so they could still tend There's so many tie
1:40:59
Speaker 1: breakers that they don't have for whatever reason.
1:41:01
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's because of their schedule.
1:41:02
Speaker 1: Because of their schedule, and yeah, the fact that it's
1:41:07
Speaker 1: with seven teams too. But anyway, what'll I be watching?
1:41:08
Speaker 1: You definitely need two TVs for this one. I actually
1:41:12
Speaker 1: think the best game is probably Bills Bengals.
1:41:15
Speaker 2: I can't believe. It inflects that.
1:41:16
Speaker 1: I am a little surprised. It inflects that that's the
1:41:18
Speaker 1: best game. You were right about this, Like the Bengals
1:41:20
Speaker 1: are not out of it, No, I tell they're larking.
1:41:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:41:23
Speaker 1: Well, and then you have so in conjunction with that,
1:41:26
Speaker 1: you have Steelers Ravens. Yeah, so the Bengals can get
1:41:29
Speaker 1: to five wins, the division leader is going to have seven,
1:41:33
Speaker 1: and the Bengals still have the Ravens once more. And
1:41:35
Speaker 1: oh no, they're done with the Steelers, but they split
1:41:37
Speaker 1: with the Steelers. So yeah, like it's still open. I think, oddly,
1:41:43
Speaker 1: if you're a Bengals fan, you're rooting for a tie
1:41:45
Speaker 1: in Steelers Ravens. If I have that correctly in my head.
1:41:48
Speaker 2: The Bengals are playing better than the Bills right now. Yes,
1:41:50
Speaker 2: I'm pretty convident in saying.
1:41:51
Speaker 1: That I would agree with you. And then you have
1:41:54
Speaker 1: Colts Jaguars, which is for the AFC South, and you
1:41:58
Speaker 1: know you're looking at potential for first round playoff opponents
1:42:01
Speaker 1: or first playoff game if the Patriots get divided divisional round? Right,
1:42:05
Speaker 1: are the Colts going to Indy? Are the Jags. Are
1:42:08
Speaker 1: the Colts going to Jacksonville or the Jags going to Indy?
1:42:11
Speaker 1: Does that loss open up? And then I'll to get
1:42:14
Speaker 1: to the game of the week. I'll jump ahead here
1:42:15
Speaker 1: a little on the schedule. I didn't want to skip
1:42:16
Speaker 1: the four o'clock window, but the game of the week,
1:42:19
Speaker 1: so that was the game of the one o'clock window.
1:42:20
Speaker 1: I think I said it's the game of the week.
1:42:21
Speaker 1: Game of the one o'clock window. Texans Chiefs Sunday Night football,
1:42:25
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all that's gonna be awesome. But Holmes against
1:42:28
Speaker 1: that defense, Texans heading in one direction, Chiefs heading in
1:42:31
Speaker 1: the other. Will know what happened with that Colts Jaguars game.
1:42:34
Speaker 1: The Texans might have a chance to jump back into
1:42:36
Speaker 1: the division lead. I know they won't. Sorry, one of
1:42:38
Speaker 1: those teams of nine wins, but like that Texans team
1:42:41
Speaker 1: is right there. That game freaking rules. All four of
1:42:46
Speaker 1: those games.
1:42:47
Speaker 2: Bill's Bengals, Chiefs, Texans, Colts, Jaggs, Steelers, Ravens are gonna
1:42:51
Speaker 2: be good games. The Broncos playing the Raiders well.
1:42:53
Speaker 1: And then in the NFC, so I was gonna get
1:42:55
Speaker 1: to that. In the NFC, Bears Backers, the Broncos play
1:42:59
Speaker 1: you care about your boy, Ben Johnson, I carry a game.
1:43:03
Speaker 2: Like watching it in terms of that, Yeah, I thought that, like,
1:43:05
Speaker 2: what are the best games to watch now? Broncos Raiders,
1:43:08
Speaker 2: Tom Brady now the Raiders. It was one of the
1:43:13
Speaker 2: It was a Thursday night game. Yeah, it was super ugly.
1:43:16
Speaker 2: It was ten to seven, like it was.
1:43:18
Speaker 1: It was bo Nicks in Hell in that game.
1:43:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't totally a non game. And you know,
1:43:25
Speaker 2: this happens like that. Teams you play spoiler at the
1:43:28
Speaker 2: end of the year. You know, the Miami Dolphins in
1:43:30
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen beat the Patriots in Week seventeen to knock
1:43:34
Speaker 2: them out of a bye. You know, it happens. I'm
1:43:37
Speaker 2: not saying it's going to but it has happened. Yeah,
1:43:40
Speaker 2: So Broncos play the Raiders is probably going to be
1:43:42
Speaker 2: a win for the Broncos. But I'm really looking forward
1:43:45
Speaker 2: to Bill's Bengals because the Bengals, I think their defense
1:43:48
Speaker 2: is starting to kind of trend in a good direction.
1:43:51
Speaker 2: I know that five turnovers kind of masked some things
1:43:53
Speaker 2: in that Baltimore game, but they played better against the Patriots.
1:43:57
Speaker 2: They caused five turnovers since the Ravens and now Burrow's.
1:44:02
Speaker 1: Back the potential. We'll see what happens against Josh Allen.
1:44:06
Speaker 1: And Josh Allen's been He's been turning the ball over
1:44:08
Speaker 1: a lot, but outside of that, he's been playing well.
1:44:10
Speaker 1: He's kind of gone back to like covid Josh Allen. Yeah,
1:44:13
Speaker 1: if they keep Josh Allen relatively in check. Yeah, the
1:44:17
Speaker 1: splits that will have Bengals defense first eleven.
1:44:22
Speaker 2: Weeks of the season. Is that game in Cincinnati.
1:44:24
Speaker 1: No, it's in Buffalo.
1:44:25
Speaker 2: Okay. So the one other split that's really going trending
1:44:28
Speaker 2: with the Bills is their home road split.
1:44:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've been very good.
1:44:31
Speaker 2: They're they've been and they've been bad. On the road.
1:44:33
Speaker 2: They have like almost it's almost like a I think
1:44:36
Speaker 2: it's a full touchdown.
1:44:37
Speaker 1: Would you say it's a broncos que home road split.
1:44:39
Speaker 2: Yes, it's almost a full touchdown In terms of points
1:44:43
Speaker 2: scored at home versus on the road. They're averaging like
1:44:45
Speaker 2: thirty three a game at home in like twenty five
1:44:47
Speaker 2: or twenty six on the road.
1:44:48
Speaker 1: I'll just say this, if they hold Josh Allen, check
1:44:51
Speaker 1: the splits on. Okay, here's what they did the first
1:44:53
Speaker 1: eleven weeks and then you're gonna have potentially three MVPs
1:44:57
Speaker 1: in a row Lamar Allen in May, and what they
1:44:59
Speaker 1: did against those three guys would be very funny. I'm rooting,
1:45:02
Speaker 1: not just like rooting against Josh Allen, rooting for it.
1:45:04
Speaker 1: I like weird stuff. The Bengals defense being historically terrible,
1:45:08
Speaker 1: then playing three MVPs in a row and being good
1:45:10
Speaker 1: against them would just be awesome.
1:45:12
Speaker 2: So this game is in Buffalo, so this is irrelevant,
1:45:14
Speaker 2: but just for the Patriots in week fifteen. The Bills
1:45:17
Speaker 2: right now are scoring thirty two and a half points
1:45:19
Speaker 2: at home. They are scoring twenty three point seven, almost
1:45:23
Speaker 2: ten point difference at home versus road, so that's an
1:45:26
Speaker 2: interesting home road.
1:45:28
Speaker 1: So their home games are Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans, the Patriots,
1:45:32
Speaker 1: the Chiefs, the Bucks, and then their road games are
1:45:36
Speaker 1: the Jets. They play some weak road games Jets, Falcons, Panthers, Dolphins, Texans, Steelers.
1:45:41
Speaker 2: And they lost the Dolphins and the Falcons on the
1:45:43
Speaker 2: Bolls on the road and Texans.
1:45:45
Speaker 1: That's true. So they only have two road games left,
1:45:47
Speaker 1: Patriots and Browns. The really quickly on the Bills. Yeah,
1:45:51
Speaker 1: because I've watched a little bit of their tape this week. Yeah,
1:45:55
Speaker 1: their offense, and to their credit, they did it on
1:45:58
Speaker 1: Sunday against the Steelers and they ran for two undred
1:46:00
Speaker 1: fifty yards.
1:46:02
Speaker 2: I can call out the plates that they're running. They
1:46:05
Speaker 2: run like five plays. It's really kind of bizarre, and
1:46:08
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it has to do with
1:46:09
Speaker 2: the fact that they're their receivers. It's been such a
1:46:12
Speaker 2: revolving door that they just right, they just haven't been
1:46:16
Speaker 2: able to build.
1:46:16
Speaker 1: That's not fair. I do like Brandon Cooks.
1:46:18
Speaker 2: They haven't been able to build though, because the guys
1:46:19
Speaker 2: haven't been in the building, so they haven't been able
1:46:22
Speaker 2: to You know, Gave Davis is playing now and he
1:46:23
Speaker 2: wasn't there to start the year. Uh, Brandon Cooks is there. Yeah,
1:46:27
Speaker 2: So like they haven't had that time. Whereas like a
1:46:30
Speaker 2: team like the Patriots has been going since training camp,
1:46:33
Speaker 2: they can build over the course of the season and
1:46:35
Speaker 2: add more into the playbook over the course of the season.
1:46:38
Speaker 2: The Bills have not had that luxury. If it's third
1:46:41
Speaker 2: and medium, they're running mesh. I'm telling you right now,
1:46:44
Speaker 2: they're running mesh. It might be different kinds of mesh, right,
1:46:46
Speaker 2: there's different variations, but they're running some variation of MESH.
1:46:50
Speaker 1: And have the Patriots been against mesh this year?
1:46:52
Speaker 2: Okay, they don't. They haven't seen the ton, but they're
1:46:56
Speaker 2: running mesh on in the run game, they're running outside
1:46:59
Speaker 2: zone weaker will. It's one of the two. And it's
1:47:02
Speaker 2: like uncanny, how like these repeat players are just all
1:47:05
Speaker 2: over their film and to their credit, you know, James
1:47:08
Speaker 2: Cook and Josh Allen are really good players, and so
1:47:10
Speaker 2: sometimes it works. But the Texans had them in hell
1:47:13
Speaker 2: because they just knew what was coming, you know, And
1:47:15
Speaker 2: it's over and over again. So Joe Brady's under a
1:47:17
Speaker 2: lot of fire. He got crowned. You kind of It's
1:47:20
Speaker 2: kind of like a Bobby Slowick fall from Grace going
1:47:22
Speaker 2: on right now with Joe Brady, where you have one
1:47:25
Speaker 2: really good year and then immediately follow that up with
1:47:27
Speaker 2: a down year. So we'll see what happens with Buffalo.
1:47:30
Speaker 2: But I think the Bengals have a really good chance
1:47:32
Speaker 2: to win that game. I think so too.
1:47:35
Speaker 1: Speaking of looking ahead, give you one stat I found
1:47:37
Speaker 1: this week? Yes, kind of looking ahead for when they
1:47:39
Speaker 1: get back. Yes, Mike Rabel coming off the bye as
1:47:44
Speaker 1: a head coach. Do you know what his record is
1:47:46
Speaker 1: he told me, so, I know, I didn't think you'd
1:47:49
Speaker 1: remember six and oh.
1:47:51
Speaker 2: I remember some things you told me.
1:47:52
Speaker 1: Mike Rabel is six and oh coming off the by
1:47:54
Speaker 1: Five of those wins have been by multi score margins.
1:47:58
Speaker 1: He won twenty eight twenty three against the Falcons his
1:48:02
Speaker 1: last year there with the Titans. But Mike Rabel has
1:48:05
Speaker 1: never lost coming off the bye.
1:48:07
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that too, and I like
1:48:09
Speaker 2: Buffalo's run game, and I think this is what's gonna
1:48:12
Speaker 2: happen with Buffalo. Then we got to wrap this up. Buffalo,
1:48:14
Speaker 2: I think, is going to kind of reinvent themselves into
1:48:16
Speaker 2: a run.
1:48:16
Speaker 1: For We're going to try to do the twenty eighteen Patriots.
1:48:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they are. And then they'll just try
1:48:20
Speaker 2: to use Josh Allen as like an ultra efficient, you know,
1:48:25
Speaker 2: big play hunter, you know, or and that sort of
1:48:28
Speaker 2: thing which might work for them. Rich in Virginia, go quick, Rich,
1:48:32
Speaker 2: what's up?
1:48:34
Speaker 8: Hey, what's up?
1:48:34
Speaker 2: Y'all.
1:48:35
Speaker 8: Let's see you guys every week. Appreciate you guys, love
1:48:38
Speaker 8: the show. I have a just a quick question. It's
1:48:42
Speaker 8: a little bit of away from what y'all are talking about,
1:48:44
Speaker 8: but around quarterbacks, we obviously have our man. He is
1:48:48
Speaker 8: the goat. Every day I'm watching clips of this guy highlights.
1:48:51
Speaker 8: He's Drake May is the goat. I do wonder what
1:48:54
Speaker 8: y'all think about backup quarterbacks. Obviously we have Josh Dobbs.
1:49:00
Speaker 8: Josh Dobbs has played for US and he's been clutched
1:49:03
Speaker 8: third down situations. He's great. I am a DeVito believer.
1:49:07
Speaker 8: So obviously we will improve in the offseason and in
1:49:11
Speaker 8: the draft. Hopefully we'll get the thirty second pick. We'll see,
1:49:15
Speaker 8: But I'm curious what we think quarterback room looks like
1:49:18
Speaker 8: going into next year. Do we think de Vito stays
1:49:20
Speaker 8: around or do we think we keep Josh Jobbs and
1:49:23
Speaker 8: then get maybe a third quarterback in the draft. That's
1:49:26
Speaker 8: what I got for you, guys. Thank you so much.
1:49:27
Speaker 8: Keep doing you guys. You guys are awesome.
1:49:30
Speaker 2: Thanks. Rich called the Right show with that question.
1:49:32
Speaker 1: As a team at eleven and two, I love the mix.
1:49:34
Speaker 2: They half a quarterback.
1:49:35
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be the same. Maybe there's like
1:49:37
Speaker 1: a rookie UDFA that's on the practice squad hanging around, but.
1:49:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, haven't. I don't really feel this like big, and
1:49:43
Speaker 2: I know some people do. I don't really feel this
1:49:45
Speaker 2: big like need to upgrade the backup quarterback spot.
1:49:49
Speaker 1: Dov's on a multi year deal, so he said, But
1:49:52
Speaker 1: I think to Vito's in RFA, so.
1:49:53
Speaker 2: I think the best thing possible is what Josh Dobbs
1:49:56
Speaker 2: been doing for Drake May. That's what I want to see.
1:49:58
Speaker 2: I don't really care about right, It's.
1:50:00
Speaker 1: Working for Drake, so so keep it as is. Yeah,
1:50:03
Speaker 1: DeVito's at RFA.
1:50:04
Speaker 2: All right, Calvin and Florida go really quick.
1:50:07
Speaker 4: Calvin, and I just got a question, what do you
1:50:10
Speaker 4: guys think Kayshaan Boody's extension will be because I don't
1:50:14
Speaker 4: think there's any way they let him out of the
1:50:16
Speaker 4: building with the way he's had a connection with Drake Man.
1:50:20
Speaker 4: Just want your opinion on that.
1:50:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Colin. It's an interesting question because he has
1:50:23
Speaker 2: been productive and he has been the arrow has been
1:50:26
Speaker 2: pointing in the right direction. However, and I just know this,
1:50:29
Speaker 2: you know historically from the league you're standing in the
1:50:33
Speaker 2: draft and what people thought of you during the draft
1:50:36
Speaker 2: when you're not like, oh if it's not Pukinikua right,
1:50:39
Speaker 2: it was a fifth round pick and is just an
1:50:40
Speaker 2: absolute superstar. It kind of Lingers with you a lot
1:50:44
Speaker 2: of the time in the league. So all the reasons
1:50:47
Speaker 2: why Kaishan Boody fell to the sixth round a couple
1:50:50
Speaker 2: of years ago, whether it's on the field or off
1:50:52
Speaker 2: the field, all right, I would assume it might follow
1:50:55
Speaker 2: him in free agency where some teams are just going
1:50:58
Speaker 2: to be a little bit wary, you know, backing up
1:51:01
Speaker 2: the Brinks truck for kashaon Booty. Right, So I do
1:51:04
Speaker 2: think that he's going to be, you know, nowadays, like
1:51:08
Speaker 2: that wide receiver to money market. So maybe we're talking
1:51:12
Speaker 2: about like twelve ish million a year. Maybe it's fifteen
1:51:16
Speaker 2: in today's world, right, but yeah, in that sort of catechy,
1:51:19
Speaker 2: I don't think that we're all of a sudden going
1:51:21
Speaker 2: to see somebody pay Kayshon Booty twenty million a year.
1:51:24
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's happening.
1:51:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, his production isn't quite there, you know, the injury
1:51:30
Speaker 1: probably set him back a little bit. But he'll get paid.
1:51:32
Speaker 1: I mean, he'll get paid. Yeah, we'll getting contract.
1:51:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. All right, that's going to do it for
1:51:36
Speaker 2: today's show. We will be back next week. No game
1:51:38
Speaker 2: to recap next week, so we're gonna probably talk a
1:51:41
Speaker 2: lot about the rest of the NFL and do that
1:51:43
Speaker 2: whole thing. We'll talk, of course about the Patriots and
1:51:47
Speaker 2: the Bills. Hat and T shirt game right, Hat and
1:51:50
Speaker 2: T shirt game for the Patriots against the Bills, chance
1:51:52
Speaker 2: to clinch the AFC East Patriots Unfiltered, it'll be up
1:51:56
Speaker 2: in eight minutes. We'll see you guys then, or I'll
1:51:58
Speaker 2: see you then. We'll see you guys next week here
1:52:00
Speaker 2: on catchwoin tube. Hey, this is Alex. Thanks for tuning
1:52:06
Speaker 2: into the show. If you really want to help us,
1:52:07
Speaker 2: make sure.
1:52:08
Speaker 6: You like us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you
1:52:11
Speaker 6: get your podcasts.
1:52:12
Speaker 2: Also, make sure you follow us on the New.
1:52:14
Speaker 8: England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and everything
1:52:17
Speaker 8: else we do here at the Patriots.
1:52:18
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot.